1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: Healthy relationships come from healthy people's skills, and that is 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: exactly what we're going to be diving into in this 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: week's episode. Hello, Hello, Hello, ladies and gents, and welcome 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: to this week's episode of the Botton Beloved Podcast. As always, 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 2: it's a girl Kirby Kelly back at it again, and 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: I'm pumped for today's conversation because it's one of those 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: that is super practical and you might be wondering, how 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: does this have any like crossover with the Bible or 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: relate to us as believers. But being someone who got 11 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: her undergrad in communications and Biblical studies later went on 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: to get my master's in theology, I find the whole 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: topic of communicating and communication and people skills and all 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: of those things to be so important not just as 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: a vital life skill, but for ministry, for connection, for 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: relating to people, for doing relationship in a way that 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: honors God. And I'm so happy that my friend who's 18 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 2: joining me today, Deborah, she wrote a book about it. 19 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: It's called people Skills. Your relationships are only as strong 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: as your skills, and I'm like a meant to that. 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 2: So she is joining me. We are going to dive 22 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: into that. But before we do that, Deborah, welcome to 23 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 2: the podcast. Can you just introduce yourself and let people 24 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 2: know a little bit about what you do, what you're 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: passionate about, and where the heart of this book really 26 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: came from. 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so good to be here and I'm excited 28 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: to dive into this topic. I'm Deborah Faleda. I'm a 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: licensed professional counselor. I am an author of nine books, 30 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: which is wild to say. I'm a mom of four. 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: My husband and I have been married for almost twenty years, 32 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: and I get to have a ministry, a global and 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: national ministry of helping the church go deeper in healing, 34 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: healing from trauma, healing mentally and emotionally and relationally. So 35 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: this is really an important subject for us to have 36 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: healthier relationships and to become healthier as well. 37 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: I love that. And was it just through your own 38 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: work as a therapist, like working with people that made 39 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: you want to write this book or is this something 40 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: that you yourself grew in and thought, hey, I should 41 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: like help other people walk through this, Like what was 42 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 2: the initial inspiration behind writing a book on people's skills specifically? 43 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, you see a lot. As a counselor, 44 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: you see a lot. And I think one of the 45 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: things I found myself saying often to couples and to 46 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: individuals people who are struggling with their family or friends, 47 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: was this is not a lack of love, This is 48 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: a lack of skill. You know, they don't have this 49 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: skill set. You don't have this skill set. You might 50 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: have the love, you might have good intentions, but oftentimes 51 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: we just make excuses for our intentions rather than actually 52 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: owning how we show up in relationships. And I kind 53 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: of think it's getting worse because, you know, twenty years ago, 54 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: we didn't have tech culture like we do today. Phones 55 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: in our faces, screens in our back pockets. Our attention 56 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: is constantly being drawn to something else. You don't even 57 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: need to interact with people these days if you don't 58 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: want to. You know where you used to have to 59 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: go to the grocery store and talk to the cashier 60 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: on your way out. You can literally pick up your phone, 61 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: put a couple things in your cart, and then press 62 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: deliver to my doorstep. Like, you don't even have to 63 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: interact with people anymore. So, these skills that we once 64 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: had to practice by default we can hide behind our 65 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: screens now and don't even have to strengthen that muscle, 66 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: and so it's atrophied. You know, there's a lot of 67 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: people walking around today that are extremely void of people's 68 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: skills and they don't understand why their relationships aren't healthy 69 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: and strong. But a big part of the equation is 70 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: us and how we show up in relationships. 71 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 2: And something that you even write about in the book 72 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 2: is this idea that most of us think, like other 73 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 2: people need the better people's skills, but so little time 74 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: do we often analyze our own selves. And that's why 75 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 2: I think, like even you being a therapist, being able 76 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: to kind of be that that bouncing board or even 77 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: not even like a bouncing board where you're just like 78 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 2: affirming what the other person is saying, but being able 79 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: to call out those things of like, hey, these are 80 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: areas that you need to grow in as well and 81 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: have that self awareness in like I would love for 82 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: you to kind of speak to that of just the 83 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 2: importance of us taking time to have self awareness when 84 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: it comes to relationships. People's skills, our strengths, and that 85 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 2: our weaknesses and that and why it is important that 86 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: we take accountability for growing in that area. 87 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:20,679 Speaker 1: Personally, Jesus knew our human nature to blame instead of own, 88 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: you know, And when you look at Scripture, you see 89 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: so clearly the verse that says, first remove the plank 90 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: from your own eye, and then you will see clearly 91 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: to remove the speck from your brother's eye. And what's 92 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: interesting about that passage is it doesn't say don't remove 93 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: the speck from your brother's eye. Because oftentimes people need feedback, 94 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: they need critique and correction, you know, that's an important 95 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: part of healthy relationships. But first remove the plank from 96 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: your own then you will see clearly. And I think 97 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: oftentimes we don't remove the plank. We're looking at what 98 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: others need to do and change. It's easy to blame 99 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: rather than own. We're getting triggered. We're looking at them 100 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: and what they need to adjust and fix and do better. 101 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: But we're not taking ownership of our own role, even 102 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: though we're fifty percent of the equation, and not only that, 103 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: we're the only portion of the equation that we actually 104 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: have control over. And so I think this is really 105 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: about that learning to take ownership. And it's funny. I've 106 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: written so many different books and oftentimes people will ask, 107 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: you know, well, what are you writing about these days? 108 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: And you tell them and you have there's all these 109 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: different reactions to different topics. But it was really interesting 110 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: with people's skills. It was almost funny how commonly people 111 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: would say something like, oh, I know someone who could 112 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: use that book. Oh my husband could use that book. 113 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: Oh my teenager could use that book. Oh this generation 114 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: could use that book. But how rare it was for 115 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: someone to have the insight and the humility the awareness 116 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I could use that book 117 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: for myself. Because it's easier for people to see the 118 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: deficits in others than to take ownership themselves. It's easy 119 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: to blame rather than own. And so my hope is 120 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: that this book offers a mirror to give feedback that 121 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: as you're reading, you're like, Okay, wait a second. I 122 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: thought I was good at that, but maybe I'm not. 123 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: You know, I thought my personality was like this, But 124 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: maybe it's actually how I was raised, my family of 125 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: origin experience. Maybe I'm not actually shy. Maybe there's just 126 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: belief systems that I'm holding on to that are false. 127 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: Maybe I need to look at this differently. Maybe I 128 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: need to own my body language and be more aware 129 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: of how I show up. And so I think if 130 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: we can do that, it changes the entire equation of 131 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: the relationship. 132 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: I'd like to actually dive into what you just said, 133 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 2: or even about the idea of like personality type and 134 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: in family of origin, because I think that that is 135 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: something that a lot of people as they read your 136 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: book are going to, like you say, maybe even be 137 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: shocked by, like oh, I didn't realize that I do this, 138 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 2: or I don't do this, or I didn't grow in 139 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: this or I was deprived of this, and therefore now 140 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: this is the outcome of my my relationships, how I'm communicating, 141 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: how I'm connecting or a lack thereof with the people 142 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: around me. So can you kind of maybe break down 143 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: like how you go about that in the book with 144 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: maybe defining or analyzing U. Because I even think of 145 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 2: personality types, it's like, well, that's just my personality, That's 146 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 2: how I am. I'm more controverted, I'm more extroverted. But 147 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: when I think about even though we might have a lean, 148 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 2: everyone has a lean in anything, just in anything in general. 149 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: But when I think about like the collective calling as 150 00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: Christians specifically, when it comes to being a family, being 151 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: a kingdom, being part of a body, being connected, and 152 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 2: the importance of that when it comes to relationship in 153 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 2: people's skills. How do you break down the concept of 154 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: personality in the book and working through and identifying those things. 155 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: Really, the main thing that I want people to be 156 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: aware of is the narrative and belief system underneath their behaviors. 157 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: So we all have a tendency to behave in a 158 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: certain way. Like I mentioned earlier, maybe someone says, well, 159 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: I'm just shy, I'm just really aggressive, That's just who 160 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: I am. But that is such an excuse and not 161 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: just an excuse, it's a lack of awareness just to 162 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: say this is just who I am, rather than who 163 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: has God called me to be? Like, what is the 164 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: healthiest version of this versus this is just who I am? 165 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: And so much of how we show up is based 166 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: on what we've experienced. So really, our childhood has so 167 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:09,119 Speaker 1: much weight in shaping our personality, in shaping our belief systems, 168 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: in shaping how we think we should or shouldn't show 169 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: up in this world. It really morphs us into becoming 170 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: a certain person. And there's reasons why, you know, we 171 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: all have an underlying belief system. 172 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: One of the. 173 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: Experiments I have you do in the book is to 174 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: take ownership of your first impression. So I have you 175 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: do this mental activity where I imagine you walking into 176 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: a room for the first time and there's ninety nine 177 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: other people in this room, a big room. You don't 178 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: even know what's going on. Everybody's wearing the same clothes. 179 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: There's cameras everywhere, and you're like, Okay, I don't know 180 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: why I am here. I just am part of this experiment. Now, 181 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: what how do you show up in that type of setting. 182 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: Are you the type of person who would hide and 183 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: be like, I hope nobody sees me. I hope nobody 184 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: talks to me. I'm just going to sit back and 185 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: not say anything. Are you the type of person who 186 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: would just want to be the center of attention and 187 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: start talking to people and socializing and being loud and 188 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: funny and breaking the ice. Are you the type of 189 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: person who would find maybe one or two people and 190 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: stick to them. Are you more of a leader or 191 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: a follower? What type of person are you? How do 192 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: you show up in that type of an environment? Really 193 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: helps me pinpoint what are the underlying beliefs that you 194 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: carry into that room that you might not be even 195 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: aware of. You know, maybe your underlying belief is I 196 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: don't really have much to offer here, so I'm just 197 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: gonna sit back and listen. But then the question is 198 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: why do you have that belief system? You know, maybe 199 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: you walk in there and you think it's my job 200 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: to make everybody comfortable. So I'm just going to talk 201 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: as much as possible and joke as much as possible. 202 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: So then that pinpoints that belief system of it's my 203 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: job to make everyone comfortable. Why do you have that 204 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: belief system? Where did it come from? And is it 205 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: aligned with God's truth or is it more aligned with 206 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: your trauma experiences? Because a big part of becoming who 207 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: God wants us to be and how we show up 208 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: in relationships is getting to the root of some of 209 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: those underlying belief systems that we hold on to that 210 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: maybe served us in one season of life, but might 211 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: be sabotaging us in another season of life if they're 212 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: left unchecked. So just kind of gets you thinking about 213 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: how you show up, your first impressions, what people think 214 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: about you. 215 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 2: You know, I love that, and what I like about 216 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 2: that approach isn't oh, you're doing it wrong. This is 217 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: what you need to conform to. This is the right 218 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: personality or the right person to be. But it really 219 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: is that question of looking at the root to understand 220 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 2: the fruit and then being conformed to who Christ has 221 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 2: called you to be. So I like that that's the 222 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 2: approach because it isn't just like this one size fits 223 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: all mold that we're all trying to like fit into 224 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: that looks like the world, or maybe what one person 225 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: would say is like the ideal communicator, but it really 226 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 2: is shifting it to who Jesus is, being conformed to 227 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 2: his image while also living out the uniqueness that He 228 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 2: designed us each two have in his image, which is beautiful. 229 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: There are some books out there, some really old books 230 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: about becoming likable, having influence, making friends, you know. But 231 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: here's the thing. This is why people's skills is different. 232 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: People's skills in this context isn't about making you more 233 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: likable or giving you more influence. My heart behind this 234 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: book is so that you can learn to convey God's 235 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: love in the best way possible, rather than convolute it 236 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: by your lack of people's skills. So many people have 237 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,959 Speaker 1: church hurt, and much of it has to do with 238 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: really bad people's skills, really bad relationship skills. But you know, 239 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: Paul in the Book of Corinthians first Corinthians nine says, 240 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: I have learned to become all things to all people, 241 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: so that by all means possible, some might be saved. 242 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: Like my job is to do whatever I need to 243 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: do in my interactions with people to have good people's 244 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: skills for the goal of God's love being magnified and 245 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: conveyed to a lost and dying world. And that really 246 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: has to be our root. It's not about I need 247 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: to have a better personality. I need to be a 248 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: better communicator. I need to be more liked by people. 249 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: Sure might that be a side effect, yeah maybe, but 250 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: that's not the goal. The goal is I want to 251 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: be able to communicate God's love and convey it in 252 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: the most effective way possible, and I don't want my 253 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: junk getting in the way. 254 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: That is to what you just said. I think that 255 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: it leads into another topic that you talk about in 256 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 2: the book that I think is important to address, and 257 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 2: it is the idea of even people pleasing because I 258 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: think that we can so heavily in areas where maybe 259 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 2: people's skills isn't our strong suit, where we might lean 260 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 2: into this performative of like, well, I need to learn 261 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 2: these things so that I am liked, so that I 262 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 2: am connecting, so that I am doing these things. But 263 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: then it can teeter into this unhealthy place where it's 264 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: performative or people pleasing and it's not actually authentic communication 265 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: and connection the way that Christ has called us too. 266 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: Can you even like like weave that into it and 267 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: talk about what you talk about in the book regarding 268 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: people pleasing, because I thought that was that's an area 269 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 2: where I struggle. So I think it's important that there 270 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 2: are other people out there who understand what you talk 271 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 2: about in the book regarding that as well. 272 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: It's funny that sometimes we use the term people pleasing 273 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: almost like something kind of positive or lighthearted, like, ah, 274 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: I'm just a people pleaser. But we're not walking around saying, 275 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just an idolatry, I'm just an addict, 276 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm just a you know, I'm just a glutton. But 277 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: we're like, I'm just a people pleaser. It's just who 278 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: I am. But really what we're saying is that we 279 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: desire to please people more than we desire to please God, 280 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: because that is the solution to people pleasing. It's not 281 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: caring less about what people think, it's caring more about 282 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: what God thinks, being in alignment with him. And I 283 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: think the difference between people pleasers and God pleasers are 284 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: that the goal of a people pleaser is for you 285 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: to like me, for you to love me. The goal 286 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: of a god pleaser is for me to love you 287 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: and to show you God's love. Like there's such a 288 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: different goal there. I might be loving you as a 289 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: people pleaser because I really want you to love me back, 290 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: because it makes me feel so good to be validated 291 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: and affirmed and valued and liked and wanted and desired. 292 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I'm doing it 293 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: because I'm wanting to get something back from you, rather 294 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: than just giving to you out of the pearness of 295 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: God's love and what He has already given me. And 296 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: that's why it can go south really fast, because externally 297 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: it looks similar, but really at the root, at the heart, 298 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: it is not similar at all, and one definitely leads 299 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: you down an unhealthy path. People pleasers get burnt out, 300 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: they get jaded, they're exhausted, They feel used and abused, 301 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, you don't always 302 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: get what you want because the moment somebody doesn't like you, 303 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: it's over. You know. I think the root of healing 304 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: from that is remembering that it is not my job 305 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: to move your heart. It is my job to move 306 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: God's heart, and it is his job to move your heart. 307 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: That's it. It's my job to move God's heart. All 308 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: I want to do is love him and please him 309 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: and move his heart. And if he wants to move 310 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: the hearts of the people around me and affect them 311 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: and influence them, great, but that's not my job, you know. 312 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: So just a different perspective shift in how we engage 313 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: with people. 314 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 2: Well, even weaving that to the idea of people's scale pills, 315 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 2: it makes me think of h of this idea of 316 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 2: just like, what is the what is the goal of communication, 317 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 2: What is the goal of connection? What is the goal 318 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 2: of putting these skills to use? Because if it is 319 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 2: to move people towards me, then I have an incorrect goal, right, Like, 320 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 2: that is not the goal. The goal, like you mentioned, 321 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 2: is bringing people to Jesus and also understanding that even 322 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: in our best attempts, especially interacting with the world that 323 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 2: is full of other fallen people, broken people, people in 324 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 2: need of redemption, that those who are especially outside of 325 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 2: the Family of Christ, who have not yet surrendered and 326 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 2: submitted their life to Jesus. Even in your best attempts 327 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 2: at utilizing your people's skills, if you are utilizing them 328 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: for the kingdom and you're trying to point people to Jesus, great, 329 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 2: But if you are manipulating it as a system to 330 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 2: get liked and loved, and when the approval of people 331 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 2: for yourself, you're going to I find a lot of 332 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 2: difficulty in that approach because the reality is is that 333 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 2: not everybody is going to like you or love you, 334 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 2: especially those of us who are believers. I mean, Jesus 335 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: himself said, hey, the world hated me first exact. I 336 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: think that that just insinuates this idea that there will 337 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 2: be people who do not like us. And if that 338 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: is the point of the use of our people skills 339 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 2: is to always fit in in the room or in 340 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 2: in the conversation, versus trying to be a light and 341 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: fit Jesus into the room and into the conversation, we're 342 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 2: really going to struggle in that area, and I remember 343 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: I remember that being something I really had to impact 344 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: because for me it was very much well, No, I 345 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: do want people to see Jesus and I want them 346 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 2: to like Jesus, but I really want them to like 347 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 2: me too. And that was something that I have had 348 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: to unlearn in my approach to connecting with people, was 349 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: that there was always this underlying little agenda of but 350 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: I also want to squeeze Cabby in there, and I 351 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: really want them to like me too. I'm thinking about 352 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 2: for the people who don't struggle with that, maybe they're like, 353 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 2: I'm completely confident, content and I don't worry about what 354 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 2: people think about me. What are some other underlying areas 355 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: when it comes to people's skills that maybe we need 356 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 2: to unlearn? These are things we need to unlearn if 357 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 2: we're actually going to grow healthily in our people's skills, 358 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 2: especially as representatives of Christ. What do we need to 359 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 2: be unlearning? 360 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: Well, I want to camp out on the mindset shift 361 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: that you just mentioned, okay, is that practicing healthy people 362 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: skills doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be liked more. 363 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: It just means that you will be able to convey 364 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: God's love in a clear, more authentic way. But that 365 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: doesn't mean everybody's going to like you. Because when you're 366 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: practicing healthy people's skills, you're practicing healthy feedback, you're practicing assertiveness, 367 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 1: you're practicing boundaries. Not everybody's going to like those things. 368 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: What you're bringing with healthy people's skills is you're bringing 369 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: healthy relationships. But not everybody's gonna want to engage in 370 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: healthy They'd rather stick with unhealthy. They'd rather just do 371 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: whatever I tell you to do, or say yes to 372 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: everything I ask you, or just be just be easy 373 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: going and passive and don't have opinions of your own. 374 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: You know, some people would rather remain in dysfunction then 375 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: move into healing. So you're by practicing people skills, you're 376 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: actually going to rock the boat because you're going to 377 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: force some relationships that you're in to step up in 378 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: their health. And some people will take that step with 379 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: you and be like, Yeah, let's do this, this is great, 380 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: I love it. Other people will bow out. But at 381 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: the end of the day, it brings clarity. It brings 382 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: clarity on the type of people that you should have 383 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: in your life. It brings clarity on the way that 384 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: you're communicating God's love, you know. And so I think 385 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: that mindset shift alone is something that we need to realize, 386 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: Like when I'm healthy, that doesn't mean everybody's gonna like it. 387 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: It's gonna rock some boats that I have built that 388 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: probably need to be taken down and rebuilt all over again. 389 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I wrote down the reason why I looked down 390 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: was because I wanted. I was like, that's so good. 391 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 2: I need to write that down about remaining in dysfunction 392 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: versus stepping into healing, because I have experienced that in 393 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 2: my own life. As one example I can think of 394 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: off the top of my head is my mom and 395 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 2: I had a very codependent relationship because she was an 396 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: alcoholic and there was so many layers of dysfunction within 397 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 2: that relationship, within the communication because I was doing my 398 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: best with the very little information and skill I had 399 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 2: to try and maintain some sort of order and peace, 400 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 2: but it was only prolonging chaos. And when I and 401 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 2: I'm sure that we can talk about this, I'm gonna 402 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be on Debra's podcast eventually and it's going 403 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 2: to be a live session. 404 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: Of her health, live counseling. 405 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 2: But dude, it's going to be so good. And this 406 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: is probably one of the things that we'll even get 407 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: into as I'm continuously unlearning and unpacking those those unhealthy 408 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 2: habits in my life. But that was something that was 409 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: difficult for me for many reasons, but the main one 410 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 2: being there is only one person who in me, who 411 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: is actively pursuing this right now. I mean, I'm getting 412 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: the feedback from from my counselor I'm getting the tools 413 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 2: from my counselor to put these things into place. And 414 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 2: it's hard when it just seems like one person wants it, 415 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: one person has direction or guidance, or one person is 416 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 2: trying to pursue healthy relationships. What would you say to 417 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 2: people today who are in that boat where they are 418 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 2: They they want healthy relationships. They're doing that the personal 419 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 2: work and healing, and they're they're doing the practical things. 420 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: But those people that they are wanting to build those 421 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 2: relationships with, or redeem those relationships with, or reconcile, it's 422 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 2: just not budging. What advice would you give to those 423 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: people today? 424 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: So good? There's a chapter in People's Skills called loving 425 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: from a distance, because we are called to love all people. Yeah, 426 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: but we're not called to love all people up close. 427 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: We can't even do that if we tried, even if 428 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: we wanted to. Even Jesus didn't love all people up close, 429 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: but he loved all people. And so I talk about 430 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: in people's Skills, how there's kind of a spectrum of 431 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: health to dysfunction when it comes to relationships, and you know, 432 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: there's healthy relationships, there's difficult relationships. There's toxic relationships, you know, 433 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: and it goes from healthy slowly into unhealthy. There's a 434 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: few different categories that I talk through, and the point being, 435 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: it's not a switch. It's not an on off switch 436 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: or yes or no switch. I think sometimes people mistakenly 437 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: believe if this relationship is not healthy, it's unhealthy. So 438 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: therefore I'm cutting you out of my life, and I 439 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: don't want to have any interaction with you, and I'm 440 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: putting up a wall. But I don't think that black 441 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: and white mindset about relationships serves us well. I think 442 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: we need to see it more of a spectrum. And 443 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: the more trust and effort I see in you, the 444 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: more accessibility you have to me, the more offer of myself, 445 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: the less trust and responsibility, the less access you have 446 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: to me, and so we have to see it as 447 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: a spectrum rather than a yes or no question. And 448 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: so I think the next question is, Okay, what level 449 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: of health is this relationship? If I had to give 450 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: you on a scale zero to ten, ten being the 451 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: most unhealthy, you know, I need to match the level 452 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: of access with the level of health, And so that 453 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: means decreasing access in many relationships where I used to 454 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: feel like I had to pick up the phone all 455 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: the time, well, now I realize, you know what, they're 456 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: not in that first circle. They're not in that closest 457 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: group of healthy, safe, trustworthy relationships. So my access decreases. 458 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: I don't have to pick up the phone all the time, 459 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 1: I don't have to say yes to requests and obligations. 460 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 1: I don't have to be available. I'm not responsible for 461 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: their feelings. And it's learning to have healthy boundaries in 462 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: those ways based on the level of safety and security 463 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: in a relationship. So that doesn't necessarily mean that you 464 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,239 Speaker 1: cut them out of your life. In some cases, as 465 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: it does mean that depending on the person and whether 466 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: or not it's an abusive relationship. But I think it's 467 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: better for us to think of it as a spectrum 468 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: than as a yes or no question. 469 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 2: I think that's great. That's a very practical image that 470 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: I think that a lot of us can see in 471 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: our heads of like, Okay, looking at this person in 472 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: my life, looking at that scale, being able to gauge 473 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 2: that and begin to take one step forward in this 474 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: direction of healthy relationship and healing. I know that we're 475 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 2: kind of at the end of our time, but I'd 476 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 2: love to even just throw it to you for any 477 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 2: final words or thoughts that you have. I know that 478 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,719 Speaker 2: you cover so much in your book, but with everything 479 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 2: that we've talked about, is there anything that you're like, Hey, 480 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 2: I actually want to just mention this final thing, to 481 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 2: kind of put a bow on it and to conclude 482 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: and encourage the people who are listening today. 483 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I think that at the end of 484 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: the day, when it comes to relationships, we're all given 485 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: a set of ingredients. You know, you have a set 486 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: of ingredients, and I have a set of ingredients. And 487 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: I can't change your set of ingredients, but I can 488 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: change mine, and when I change mine, it changes the 489 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: entire recipe. I can't change you, but I can change 490 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,959 Speaker 1: my ingredients, which oftentimes influences the entire recipe. So if 491 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: you're sitting there feeling discouraged because of certain relationships that 492 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: you might be in, or a marriage, or a dating 493 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: relationship or a friendship, you have so much authority just 494 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: by taking ownership of the ingredients that you bring and 495 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: shifting those and at the end of the day, it 496 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: brings so much clarity to the health of your relationships 497 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: when you do that, and the ones that need to 498 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: be invested in versus the ones that need a little 499 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: bit more distance and boundaries. So just something to remember 500 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: when we're feeling discouraged about relationships. 501 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 2: That's great. And I know you dive into so much 502 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 2: more in your book, which is actually out today. So 503 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 2: like by the time this episode is live, your book 504 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 2: is live. People can get it, people can listen to it. 505 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 2: I know that books are available in all forms everywhere, 506 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: but is there anywhere specific that people can go to 507 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 2: one get your book, two check out your podcast, and 508 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 2: three just keep up to date with you and everything 509 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 2: that you're doing, whether that be on socials or or 510 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 2: anything else that you want to plug. 511 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, the book is out everywhere books are sold. You 512 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: can learn more about my podcast talk to Me or 513 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: the counselor's network, the team of counselors if you want 514 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: to go deeper one on one with someone at Deborahfaleda 515 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: dot com. You'll also find links to all the books 516 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: and resources there. I love hanging out on Instagram. I 517 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: answer all my dms, so if you want to shout 518 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: out and say hi, it's also Deborah Faleda on Instagram 519 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: as well. 520 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 2: Amazing. Well, y'all go check her out. If you need 521 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 2: one to get this book, then get it. But two, 522 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 2: I love that even if you wanted to take it 523 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: a step further and begin to unpack those things in 524 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 2: your own life, that she has a whole network of 525 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: people of counselors that you can get plugged into and 526 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: connected with. I am all for that, So check out 527 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 2: all of those resources over on her website. I'm sure 528 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 2: you can even check out the book on Amazon if 529 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 2: you just wanted to, you know, arrive on your doorstep tomorrow. 530 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 2: But Debraah, thanks for taking time to be here, for 531 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: pouring into the listeners here on Bought and Beloved, and 532 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,719 Speaker 2: to all the listeners, thank you for taking time out 533 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 2: of your schedule to tune into this week's episode. I 534 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: love you guys, and I will see you here next 535 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: time for another episode on Bought and Beloved. Bye, guys. 536 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 2: For more life giving, faith based podcast just like this one, 537 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 2: check out lifeaudio dot com, a proud partner of the 538 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 2: boton Beloved podcast