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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hey, Rachel, thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Yes, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Rachel Lampa, Dove Award and K-Love Award winning artist who

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Speaker 1: has a new single. It's called Permission. I really enjoyed this.

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Speaker 1: You all are also writing new music again, recently signed

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Speaker 1: with Centricity Music. I was a fan of yours a

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Speaker 1: long time ago, Rachel. When you're a teen pop star,

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Speaker 1: and now I'm still a fan today.

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Speaker 2: I'm not still a teen pop star.

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Speaker 1: You are still young though, Rachel. Let's talk about this song, Permission.

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Speaker 1: It's written from God's perspective, and I really like that perspective.

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Speaker 1: It invites everyone to come to Him as they are.

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Speaker 1: What inspired this song, and why do you think people

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Speaker 1: need to hear it today?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I wrote this song. With my trusty co-writers,

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Speaker 2: Andrew Ripp and Ethan Hulse. Actually, we started this song

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Speaker 2: just with the title, Permission. And we had no idea

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Speaker 2: what exactly we wanted it to be about, but we

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Speaker 2: all just thought this word was interesting. And in the

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Speaker 2: world of... I'm married to a therapist. And so in

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Speaker 2: the world of therapy, we use this word a lot

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Speaker 2: about like, you have permission to be honest right now.

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Speaker 2: You have permission to do this. You... I want to

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Speaker 2: give you permission. And it's not even that we have

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Speaker 2: to give each other permission, but sometimes we have to

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Speaker 2: be reminded that it's just okay. And so I just

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Speaker 2: thought it was so interesting in just what I know

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Speaker 2: about God's heart and what I sometimes hear out there

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Speaker 2: that people claim is God's heart and I don't think

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Speaker 2: is God's heart. I want to be a voice in

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Speaker 2: all this, in all this noise that says, that really

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Speaker 2: talks about the God that I know and the God

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Speaker 2: that says, come to me like all who are weary

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Speaker 2: and I will give you rest and come as you are.

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Speaker 2: And I created you in the image of me. I

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Speaker 2: created you to be a human, but to need me.

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Speaker 2: And therefore don't leave all your, your worries and fears

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Speaker 2: at the door, you know, like bring them to my feet,

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Speaker 2: you know? And so I just wanted to like, like

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Speaker 2: take a second to like, to say, come on, let's

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Speaker 2: be a mess. Let's be all that we are. Let's

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Speaker 2: take up all of our space. You have no idea

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Speaker 2: how many conversations I have with my girlfriends, the women

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Speaker 2: in my life, about taking up space and not being

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Speaker 2: afraid to have a voice in a room and to

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Speaker 2: have a voice in the industry and in church and

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Speaker 2: all the above. So You know, I mean, I could

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Speaker 2: go on and on, like all the reasons just pour in,

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Speaker 2: but yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, it kind of challenges the idea that we have

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Speaker 1: to have everything together to come to God. That's kind

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Speaker 1: of the point of the song. It's just come as

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Speaker 1: you are. And I think a lot of times we

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Speaker 1: struggle as believers and non-believers in coming to God with

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Speaker 1: everything we have. And we struggle with the idea of grace,

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Speaker 1: that he can have grace and forgive us and love us.

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Speaker 1: You're writing new music. So tell us what direction you're

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Speaker 1: going in. What are you writing about? What's the inspiration

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Speaker 1: right now for all these new songs you're writing?

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Speaker 2: I mean, my constant inspiration, whether I like it or not,

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Speaker 2: and I do like it and I love it, are

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Speaker 2: my kids. You know, I've got Jackson and Leo. They're

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Speaker 2: actually on the baby monitor right here. If you see

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Speaker 2: my eyes go there. They are just constantly teaching me.

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Speaker 2: about God and about love and life and forgiveness and light.

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Speaker 2: And so I'm always writing about them or for them

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Speaker 2: or to them, but it does feel like there's been

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Speaker 2: like a call and a pull lately to write about

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Speaker 2: the way that the light comes in, the way that

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Speaker 2: the light comes into a dark place in a dark

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Speaker 2: world or a dark situation or a painful situation and

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Speaker 2: how when light starts to leak in, how it lights

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Speaker 2: up the whole place and how, the innocence of a child,

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Speaker 2: you know, walks into a room and suddenly the attention

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Speaker 2: is on what's important. And it's the same way with,

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Speaker 2: with God and like with the kind of love that

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Speaker 2: he offers. It's like, we can either choose to, which

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Speaker 2: is like a temptation for me sometimes to just complain

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Speaker 2: about the world or to be sad about the world

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Speaker 2: or be you know, discouraged, but I could also be

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Speaker 2: part of what, of, of bringing the light in and

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Speaker 2: bringing in and showing the world what God has done.

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Speaker 1: I think, I think my kids are, I didn't even

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Speaker 1: interrupt you there. I'm sorry. But I, I think that

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Speaker 1: when I had kids, it kind of helped me finally

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Speaker 1: understand God's love better because no matter what, what my

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Speaker 1: kids do, I still love them. And there, I think,

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Speaker 1: I think kids are just kind of this, this little

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Speaker 1: bitty or depending on how big your kid is, maybe big,

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Speaker 1: Cause I have, I have an 18 and I have

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Speaker 1: a 11 year old, but they were, they were all,

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Speaker 1: they all used to be little, but yeah, they're, they're, they're, they're,

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Speaker 1: they're living images of, it's kind of a picture of

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Speaker 1: the gospel almost, I think in our lives. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about. You said something,

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Speaker 1: you said something in a news release that it really

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Speaker 1: caught my eye. And I think you were talking about your,

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Speaker 1: your past, the last 20, 30 years of your life,

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Speaker 1: you know, you were, you were a pop star and

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Speaker 1: then you kind of disappeared from our eyes, but, you're

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Speaker 1: living your life. You said, my identity got so lost

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Speaker 1: and taken over by expectations and performance and perfectionism. And

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Speaker 1: I was so focused on my gift that I stopped

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Speaker 1: thinking of the giver. Expand on that a bit. How

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Speaker 1: did God help you rediscover your identity in him the

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Speaker 1: past couple of decades?

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Speaker 2: I think it had a lot to do with just

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Speaker 2: giving my voice back to him. I think I had

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Speaker 2: just taken on this like, this mission to like, go

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Speaker 2: share my gift with the world and to go and

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Speaker 2: get up on that stage, no matter how you feel

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Speaker 2: or what you think or what you believe and just

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Speaker 2: get up there and you go share that gift, you know?

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Speaker 2: And I think I, I forgot the part about enjoying

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Speaker 2: the gift and the giver of the gift and going

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Speaker 2: back to singing in my, in my room by myself

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Speaker 2: and worshiping in that way. And What I did after

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Speaker 2: I left my record deal and the lead singer role

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Speaker 2: of the stage, I went and sang background vocals. And

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Speaker 2: in the singing of the background vocals, you sing a

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Speaker 2: lot of just oohs and ahs, you know, and la

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Speaker 2: la la la la's. And it like brought me back

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Speaker 2: to that kid, you know, when I first started singing

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Speaker 2: of of that pure worship. Like that was the first

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Speaker 2: way that I ever worshiped. That was the first way

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Speaker 2: that I ever was like, what is this thing, God? Like,

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Speaker 2: what is this thing that I love so much? And,

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Speaker 2: and I, so I got to return to like, just

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Speaker 2: enjoying it with, with the giver, with, with, with the Lord, like,

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Speaker 2: and really, really worship again. And now, you know, it's like,

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Speaker 2: I got to take care of that. I've got to

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Speaker 2: take care of that relationship with, with music and with God.

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Speaker 2: And remember that it's always about him. And it's always

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Speaker 2: about spending time with him first. and then sharing it

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Speaker 2: with the world.

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Speaker 1: When you look back on the time when you were,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how old you were at the time,

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Speaker 1: you were a teenager, I guess.

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Speaker 2: I was 14, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you have mixed feelings about that era of your

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Speaker 1: life in terms of, and I'm just talking about, when

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Speaker 1: I hear stories of young actors or actresses and pop stars,

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Speaker 1: and I mean, you're in the Christian realm, there are

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Speaker 1: always stories of good and bad. You know, there's not

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Speaker 1: many stories that are just all good. How was your

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Speaker 1: time during that period of your life?

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Speaker 2: Mixed feelings for sure. I've never had the feeling that

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Speaker 2: I wasn't where I was supposed to be. I feel

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Speaker 2: like God took me through that season for so many reasons,

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Speaker 2: for me and my own faith, for my community, for

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Speaker 2: the friends around me. I think he put some lifelong

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Speaker 2: mentors and friends and people around me that I may

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Speaker 2: never have had I would have never had if it

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Speaker 2: weren't for music. But for sure, I think there were

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Speaker 2: parts of the pressure element, the expectation element, the performance

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Speaker 2: element that got really confusing because I'm a teenager trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out what kind of jeans to wear and

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Speaker 2: how to do my hair, but also getting asked some

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Speaker 2: really big theological questions about a God that I was

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Speaker 2: just trying to understand too. And so the, the expectations

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Speaker 2: were very, very high. And they're definitely, I see now

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Speaker 2: in this industry, a lot more guardrails and a lot

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Speaker 2: more care being given to the younger artists, which is awesome.

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Speaker 2: But I think in our, in our, you know, little

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Speaker 2: era of teen popness, it was kind of the wild west.

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Speaker 2: Like it kind of, some people had really, really bad

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Speaker 2: experiences and And then some of us kind of were

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Speaker 2: a little more protected. But it definitely needed some healing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We put too much pressure on artists

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Speaker 1: and we expect too much of them. We expect these

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Speaker 1: people on stage to be theologians and pastors and they're singers.

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Speaker 1: They're just singers using their voice and they don't know everything.

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Speaker 1: I just, I hear what you're saying and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, you're a 14 or 15. I have

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Speaker 1: a son who's 14. I'm thinking to myself, that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: That's crazy. You know, you still remember the words to

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Speaker 1: those songs that you recorded back then? I mean, can

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Speaker 1: you still sing?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember them better than my current songs because

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Speaker 2: those ones are like in my blood because like my

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Speaker 2: brain wasn't fully formed yet. So I was like, so

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Speaker 2: they're like in there. But now I'll sing like, so

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Speaker 2: I'll do a set and I'm like, I don't even

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Speaker 2: have to think about it when I do Live Free

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Speaker 2: or Blessed or something like that. But then I'll do

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Speaker 2: like a song that I wrote, you know, six months.

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Speaker 1: Ago or a year ago.

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Speaker 2: And I'll be like, I'll be looking at my hand

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Speaker 2: or something, trying to remember all the lyrics.

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Speaker 1: But you think the guardrails now are better for, you

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Speaker 1: think it's changed for the better?

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Speaker 2: I do. I mean, one, I don't really see a

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Speaker 2: lot of 14 year olds getting signed. I think there's

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Speaker 2: just a I think we've learned. And, and I also

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Speaker 2: think there's, there's a huge, you know, emphasis on, on

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Speaker 2: mental health these days and people just really paying attention

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Speaker 2: to taking care of each other and supporting each other. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: My 14 year old's a big soccer fan. And every

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Speaker 1: now and then he'll tell me, he'll say, he'll say, dad,

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Speaker 1: there's a 15 year old playing for a professional team somewhere.

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Speaker 1: And I'm, he thinks it's awesome. And I'm thinking, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that's a good thing, buddy. But anyway, that's,

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Speaker 1: that's a whole different issue.

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Speaker 2: Same with Jax. My, my 10 year old, he is like,

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Speaker 2: Big time, big time soccer guy. And yeah, it's all

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Speaker 2: Lameen Yamal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, let a child be a child. You

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Speaker 1: have said that you're making music now, not because you

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Speaker 1: need to, but because you want to. How has that

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Speaker 1: freedom kind of helped your songwriting and maybe even helped

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Speaker 1: produce music that you think we need to hear? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, gosh, it's been everything. It's not even that

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Speaker 2: that caused the music to come out. It's like the

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Speaker 2: music caused me to let go. Meaning, I'd been in

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Speaker 2: this small group with Andrew, Rip, and Ethan Hulse for

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Speaker 2: eight years maybe without making any music, without writing anything.

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Speaker 2: I was doing prison ministry. I was working with my

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Speaker 2: family's nonprofit, People Loving Nashville. And I was like, I

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Speaker 2: would just come to a small group and I'd talk

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Speaker 2: about them and I'd talk about what they're doing and

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Speaker 2: what God's doing in their hearts. And in 2020, maybe 2021,

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Speaker 2: I came to a small group and was like, I

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Speaker 2: really want to write a song to these girls in

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Speaker 2: the prison. And that was perfectly loved. And I was

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Speaker 2: fully just writing it for them. I wanted to send

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Speaker 2: it back in the prison. I didn't want to put

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Speaker 2: it out to the world or anything like that. But

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Speaker 2: through friends and family just being like, maybe, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maybe other people would want to hear it. I reluctantly

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, but my hands are wide open. I

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Speaker 2: am not going to force anything. It's only what God

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Speaker 2: wants to do in this moment. I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: strive for this at all. And I think that God

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Speaker 2: just leading and pulling and nudging has been the theme

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Speaker 2: for my life, you know, in the past five years,

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Speaker 2: really mostly like just since like this music started happening.

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Speaker 2: And so, you know, I think that's why maybe that's

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Speaker 2: why it connected because it wasn't out of any need

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Speaker 2: for it to work. You know, it just was out

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Speaker 2: of like an overflow of my heart of watching other

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Speaker 2: people be amazing and beautiful and watching God love them

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Speaker 2: well and wanting to sing about it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was looking at Spotify today and I think Perfectly

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Speaker 1: To Love is the most streamed song on Spotify for you.

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Speaker 1: It's tens of millions of streams. It's just, what a blessing.

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Speaker 1: By the way, did you get, I'm sure during those

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Speaker 1: quiet years of not recording public music, people kept asking you,

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Speaker 1: when are you going to make more music? Did you

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Speaker 1: get tired of that? Or what were your emotions during

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Speaker 1: those conversations? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I made some music here and

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Speaker 2: there and I always found a way to be singing.

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Speaker 2: I sang, I was like on an acapella show on NBC.

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Speaker 2: I was, uh, singing backgrounds a lot. So I was

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Speaker 2: always finding a way to make music, but yeah, I'd

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Speaker 2: have people here and there be like, where'd you go?

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Speaker 2: Where'd you go? And I'm like, I'm right here. I was,

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Speaker 2: I was, I was having babies. I was living a

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Speaker 2: lot of life. And, and so, yeah, it just never

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Speaker 2: felt right. And, and honestly, when, when I wrote perfectly loved,

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Speaker 2: I think I was just newly like pregnant with Leo. And,

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Speaker 2: and even then I was like, no, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to restart my career. I've got like a second baby

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Speaker 2: on the way. Like, why would I do that? And

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Speaker 2: then God was like, well, cause, and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: help you.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's, it's never been my perfect plan at all.

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Speaker 2: It's always just been God's perfect plan.

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Speaker 1: Amen to that. You mentioned Leo folks who follow your Instagram.

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Speaker 1: I've seen Leo. He of course was born with down syndrome.

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Speaker 1: I have a, I have a, Brother-in-law has Down syndrome,

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Speaker 1: so this topic is really close to me. You wrote

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Speaker 1: a song called Superpowers about Leo. You've been outspoken about

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Speaker 1: the joy he's brought into the world. Let's just chat

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Speaker 1: briefly about this before I let you go. What sparked

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Speaker 1: you to want to share his story? Because you didn't

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Speaker 1: have to share his story with the world, but you

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Speaker 1: wanted to. And what's been the reaction from just everybody

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Speaker 1: to your sharing this story with the world?

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Speaker 2: Well... Yeah, speaking of light, my eyes keep darting over because.

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Speaker 1: That's... That's right, you've got that monitor.

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Speaker 2: I saw some tears, but now we've got goldfish going,

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Speaker 2: so goldfish fixes everything. Yeah, he's just a burst of light.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, like, he just kind of came into

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Speaker 2: our life and just opened all the windows and the

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Speaker 2: doors and just let all the light in. And I

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Speaker 2: want to share that because, one... It brings joy to

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Speaker 2: everybody that comes in contact with him. It brings a

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Speaker 2: new kind of unexpected joy. But I also know that

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Speaker 2: this world is not fully set up for him. And

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Speaker 2: I know that there is still a lot of work

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Speaker 2: to do as far as people acknowledging who he is,

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Speaker 2: learning about who he is, what his challenges are, but

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Speaker 2: what his superpowers are, and what he does offer this

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Speaker 2: world that doesn't come naturally to everyone. And there's just

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Speaker 2: so much to know there and there's so much not

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Speaker 2: to miss. And yeah, I'll spend my whole life making

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Speaker 2: sure people know that he exists.

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Speaker 1: Well, we live in a world in which, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a diagnosis in the womb of Down syndrome. And sadly,

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Speaker 1: we live in a culture in which people can choose

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Speaker 1: not to bring that child into the world. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's part of your heart just wanting to

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Speaker 1: show people the joy that Leo has brought you and

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Speaker 1: for them to also have that joy and that anticipation.

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Speaker 1: And I guess also have hope in the midst of,

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Speaker 1: of a moment in which they might not be seeing hope.

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Speaker 1: I freaked out.

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Speaker 2: I was scared. Like I got the blood test and

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Speaker 2: I was like, Oh my gosh, I would have never

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Speaker 2: imagined this moment. And what am I going to do?

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Speaker 2: And can I handle this? And am I really the

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Speaker 2: right person for this? And like, I had all the

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Speaker 2: fears and all the worries and all the panic. Thank

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Speaker 2: God I did find people, honestly, on Instagram because I

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Speaker 2: didn't know a lot of people with Down syndrome. I

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Speaker 2: didn't grow up with anyone in my family or in

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Speaker 2: my world with Down syndrome. I started following accounts of

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Speaker 2: just beautiful families that rally around and just showing the beauty,

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Speaker 2: the superpower, the extra of these people that grow up

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Speaker 2: and become beautiful members of society. It was really good

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Speaker 2: for me to see that, you know, and, you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't I would never just say, oh, yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: been the easiest thing from the second I found out. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was fine the whole time, you know, but I

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Speaker 2: want to show that like you can you can move

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Speaker 2: through fear. You can get past the worry and the

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Speaker 2: fear of it and get to the beauty, get to

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Speaker 2: the good stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my 14 year old son plays soccer. They had

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Speaker 1: a tournament a couple of weekends ago and my brother-in-law,

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Speaker 1: who's about 40, He came and visited us. He was

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Speaker 1: the most popular person at the soccer game. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was, everybody remembered him from the last time he visited.

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Speaker 1: He was hugging everybody. They remembered him. So yes, in

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Speaker 1: terms of having superpowers and bringing joy to a, to

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Speaker 1: a community, you know, there's something there and you've seen

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Speaker 1: it with Leo as well. So that's beautiful. Rachel Lampa

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Speaker 1: has been our guest. She has a new single out

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Speaker 1: called permission and it is incredible. I encourage people to

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Speaker 1: check it out. Rachel, thanks so much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: If you liked today's episode, please subscribe and leave a

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Speaker 1: five-star review. That's how we help more people just like

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Speaker 1: you find the show. A big thanks to the team

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Speaker 1: at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: If you go to lifeaudio.com, you will find dozens of

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Speaker 1: other faith-centered podcasts in their network. See you next time.