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Speaker 2: starting now. Hey Hey, everybody, it's Sanache and you're listening
Speaker 2: to the Rebuilding US Marriage podcast. I'm so glad that
Speaker 2: you're here on today's episode. If you have probably already
Speaker 2: noticed from the description, this is part two of a
Speaker 2: conversation that I had with one of my dear friends,
Speaker 2: Sylvia Chipman. Sylvia is also a marriage coach, and she's
Speaker 2: also a really good friend of mine, and we had
Speaker 2: a conversation in part one about platonic friendships. Is it
Speaker 2: okay if you are married to be just friends? Quote
Speaker 2: unquote with someone of the opposite gender, assuming you're attracted
Speaker 2: to people of the opposite gender. So in that first conversation,
Speaker 2: if you haven't already listened to it, I would encourage
Speaker 2: you to listen to that one first, because obviously this
Speaker 2: conversation builds upon that one. But Sylvia and I shared
Speaker 2: a lot of personal stories from our lives about how
Speaker 2: we did this wrong and about how both of us
Speaker 2: actually ended up in unfaithful marriages as a result of that.
Speaker 2: So in Part two, we're going to segue a little
Speaker 2: bit and talk about some of the boundaries that have
Speaker 2: really been beneficial for us. Now, a boundary is not
Speaker 2: something that I'm putting on you. It's not something that
Speaker 2: you can put on your spouse or anybody else. Boundaries
Speaker 2: are always about what you are going to do. So
Speaker 2: as you listen to this conversation, I want you to
Speaker 2: be inspired by some of the boundaries that we have,
Speaker 2: but I also want you to think about what are
Speaker 2: some boundaries that you can put in place for your marriage.
Speaker 2: Remember that boundaries are always about protecting your marriage from harm,
Speaker 2: protecting your marriage from outsiders, protecting your marriage from relationships
Speaker 2: that look right but are not right. So with that
Speaker 2: being said, let's go ahead and jump into this part
Speaker 2: two of this incredible conversation about can you just be
Speaker 2: friends even though I don't have bad intentions, even though
Speaker 2: maybe I'm trustworthy or they're trustworthy. I'm going to dial
Speaker 2: this that because I don't want this to turn into
Speaker 2: something that it shouldn't.
Speaker 1: Be right, and it takes maturity, it does. It takes
Speaker 1: which we didn't have at that stage. Mean, I just
Speaker 1: didn't have it, and like I said, there was so
Speaker 1: much emotion happening. I mean, like I said, I really
Speaker 1: see it for what it is. It was a trauma bond.
Speaker 1: It was you know, we had gone through something together
Speaker 1: that was unique and very big for a twenty something
Speaker 1: year old to be dealing with for years. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so there could be any kind of unique circumstances. Everyone
Speaker 1: thinks their situation is unique.
Speaker 3: That's another thing.
Speaker 1: Well, you just don't understand because this or but it's this,
Speaker 1: And regardless of what it is, are you putting your
Speaker 1: marriage first? Is it in its proper place? Because it
Speaker 1: should have been. I should have been able to set
Speaker 1: my feelings aside for a moment to see where my
Speaker 1: husband was coming from and how insulting. That must have
Speaker 1: been for him to see me sharing intimate details about
Speaker 1: my wants and not wants and hurt with another man
Speaker 1: like that. For all intents and purposes, that was what
Speaker 1: we call an emotional affair if we're being honest with ourselves.
Speaker 1: And I didn't at the time, but I can see
Speaker 1: it for what it is, and it was, and so
Speaker 1: I was wrong for that, And years later I would
Speaker 1: have to give grace for or an affair as well.
Speaker 1: And it happened into similar fashion a slow burn. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a somebody telling somebody. The origin of an affair
Speaker 1: is somebody feeling in need that's not being met, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, would you agree tot so, all it took
Speaker 1: was a woman to come along, and it was innocent enough.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna help this widow woman with with building her fence,
Speaker 1: because you know that's the way the military works, when
Speaker 1: somebody in your squadron or whatever passes you pull over
Speaker 1: together and help their widow.
Speaker 3: You know this.
Speaker 1: So my husband volunteers to build a fence, and this
Speaker 1: woman just starts pouring and pooring and poor feeding his ego,
Speaker 1: telling them how amazing he is, like all these things
Speaker 1: that you know, We're fifteen years into our marriage, so
Speaker 1: maybe I'm not doing as much if I'm just being honest.
Speaker 1: And yeah, the enemy crept right into our marriage, and
Speaker 1: you know, but I had to find it the strength
Speaker 1: of the Lord to find a place of forgiveness and
Speaker 1: healing and we did, and honestly, truly, we love each
Speaker 1: other better and stronger and more intimately today than we
Speaker 1: ever have. And I praise the Lord for that.
Speaker 3: That's so good.
Speaker 1: But we are aware and we guard our marriage.
Speaker 3: You've got to be aware.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing, is that, like whether you are
Speaker 2: in your faith, not in your faith, you believe in
Speaker 2: the enemy, you don't believe in the enemy.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But what I do know is that I do not
Speaker 2: need to help the enemy to destroy my marriage like
Speaker 2: he is. All right, He's already on the already always,
Speaker 2: you know. So I'm not going to give him any help.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to leave any open doors.
Speaker 2: With that being said, though, Sylvia, I do believe that
Speaker 2: there are times that you can have healthy platonic friends
Speaker 2: of the opposite sex. In my personal life right now.
Speaker 2: I was just telling you earlier.
Speaker 3: I have too. I have a couple of guy friends.
Speaker 2: First of all, as a pastor, it's a male dominated industry, right,
Speaker 2: so I work with men all the time, and even
Speaker 2: in business, like a lot of there's a lot more
Speaker 2: women entrepreneurs now, but I mean it's largely a male space.
Speaker 2: And so I'm around men all the time, and I'm
Speaker 2: very friendly, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Also very touchy, like I hug everybody. I'm constantly touching people.
Speaker 2: So I have to like watch myself literally, like do
Speaker 2: not be rubbing on that man, you know, Like, do
Speaker 2: not don't give so many hugs like it's not it's.
Speaker 1: Just a side hug exactly referred.
Speaker 3: Hug and put your elbow in between you, you know.
Speaker 2: But so I have these guy friends who I adore.
Speaker 2: I think they are amazing fathers, great husbands, they are
Speaker 2: all of them are in ministry or business somehow, like
Speaker 2: they are good, solid guys, And to be honest, I
Speaker 2: would love to just hang out with them and just
Speaker 2: be like, let's go and get dinner or lunch or
Speaker 2: whatever it is. But I do have to be aware
Speaker 2: of the appearances an evil thing, right, And then not
Speaker 2: even just the appearances evil, but just people talk and
Speaker 2: somettimes like you might not have any bad intentions, but
Speaker 2: like people will talk, and because I have a history, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: I have to be aware that even in my again
Speaker 2: good intentions, this is probably not the best thing. And
Speaker 2: so what I recommend is groups. You know, if you
Speaker 2: have a platonic friend, get to know their spouse, get
Speaker 2: to hang out with their spouse. Like I tell my husband,
Speaker 2: I don't mind if you have female friends as long
Speaker 2: as I like the female. You know, but you telling
Speaker 2: me about Sally Sue, who is that? I have never
Speaker 2: heard of her before? Absolutely not, no, no, no, no, We're
Speaker 2: not doing that. So I need to know my husband's friends.
Speaker 2: He needs to know my friends.
Speaker 3: And like them.
Speaker 2: So you got to know them and like them, and
Speaker 2: then there does need to be some trust there, and
Speaker 2: trust is built by spending time with people. So my
Speaker 2: husband's not going to trust my guy friends if he doesn't,
Speaker 2: if he's never spent time with them. So it's like,
Speaker 2: all right, you know what, y'all, let's go, let's go
Speaker 2: hang out, let's all go to dinner, let's all go bowland,
Speaker 2: let's all go to wherever we're gonna go. Right, Let's
Speaker 2: let's spend time together. And I'm gonna be me and
Speaker 2: that conversation, like I feel like this, if I can't
Speaker 2: be myself because my husband's there, well that's a red
Speaker 2: flag right there, right if I got a dial back
Speaker 2: and act different than.
Speaker 3: I normally had.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, like I'm still the same. So we
Speaker 2: were just with one of my guy friends earlier in
Speaker 2: the week, and I'm a hugger, right, So the first
Speaker 2: thing I do I see him, I go up and
Speaker 2: I give him this big hug. And then him and
Speaker 2: my husband do like the whole dap me up thing,
Speaker 2: you know, like, what's up.
Speaker 3: Man, what's up? They're not gonna hug, right, they give
Speaker 3: each other dap. And so I told my.
Speaker 2: Husband I first, I was like, you know, we really
Speaker 2: need to hang out with him and his wife, Like
Speaker 2: we really need to get to like all hang out together.
Speaker 2: And so I kind of have probably more stricter boundaries
Speaker 2: than like most just because again my history.
Speaker 3: So I don't text men late at night.
Speaker 2: I don't really like just sit there and text back
Speaker 2: and forth all day with a guy I will send
Speaker 2: means like a lot of times we'll send like funny gifts,
Speaker 2: we'll send like jokes, we'll talk about business like so
Speaker 2: it's not like we never talk, but my phone is open.
Speaker 2: There's nothing in my phone that Sean would see that
Speaker 2: he would be like, what's this like, you know. And
Speaker 2: there was a situation, this was probably about ten years
Speaker 2: ago in business.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 2: I was friends with this guy. And the truth of
Speaker 2: the matter is I wasn't a fit. I wasn't physically
Speaker 2: attracted to this guy, but spiritually, oh.
Speaker 3: My god, like he was a pastor. He was like
Speaker 3: everything that came out of his mouth was just like Jesus.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Sean picked up on it, and I was mad. I
Speaker 2: was embarrassed as what I was because I was trying
Speaker 2: to like hide the fact that I definitely put this
Speaker 2: man up on a pedestal. And you know, I was like,
Speaker 2: he's ministering to me. Well really he wasn't, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like, and so Sean called me out
Speaker 2: and then he reached out to the guy, and I
Speaker 2: was so embarrassed. I was so embarrassed, you know. But
Speaker 2: that's what needed to have happened, because if Sean would
Speaker 2: have let that thing go, who knows what would have happened.
Speaker 2: And that and that little innocent relationship. So all I'm saying,
Speaker 2: all we're saying you all today is that if you're
Speaker 2: going to have friends of the opposite gender and you're married,
Speaker 2: proceed with caution. You need to know yourself. You need
Speaker 2: to know your weaknesses. You need to just be aware
Speaker 2: and be honest and say you know what, and we
Speaker 2: need some safeguards around your If your spouse does not
Speaker 2: know your friend, that's a that's a problem.
Speaker 1: That is a problem.
Speaker 3: They need to know them.
Speaker 2: They need to They need to have their phone number,
Speaker 2: they need to know how to get in touch with
Speaker 2: them like they need to.
Speaker 3: It needs to be like that.
Speaker 2: If you have to hide a friendship or if you're like,
Speaker 2: well they just don't get along, well, then you don't
Speaker 2: get along either, like you're just it's just too many
Speaker 2: things that can go wrong for you to even set
Speaker 2: yourself up. That's my opinion. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: have something different.
Speaker 1: But I agree. I I definitely have more stricter guidelines
Speaker 1: in place for our marriage. Again, that's not to put
Speaker 1: it on anyone else, but that's the space that we
Speaker 1: feel comfortable in and given our history and what we
Speaker 1: choose to do. So we don't have opposite sex friends,
Speaker 1: we have different couples we're friends with and we hang
Speaker 1: out together. Even my pastor. If I have a ministry meeting,
Speaker 1: we usually there's two of the pastors or will be
Speaker 1: definitely out in an open space, you know, so we
Speaker 1: have safeguards. I'll just be perfectly honest. I don't want
Speaker 1: my husband having female friends. I'll just put it right
Speaker 1: out there and again, if that's me, then whatever. But no,
Speaker 1: I don't want you to have a female friend that
Speaker 1: you're going out to lunch with. Nope, I don't. Because
Speaker 1: my husband's an attractive man.
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 1: He's a good man, he's a godly man, and that
Speaker 1: is attractive to people. And I have found that women
Speaker 1: don't care if there is a ring on a man's finger,
Speaker 1: if anything maybe makes some more trial.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, Sean used to tell me that,
Speaker 2: like girls would like approach him more when he was
Speaker 2: wearing his wedding ring. Yeah, and you know this is
Speaker 2: when he.
Speaker 3: Was in the thick of all his mess, you know.
Speaker 3: So I'd be like, why aren't you wearing your ring?
Speaker 2: He's like, actually, you think that that's doing It's almost
Speaker 2: like a magnet.
Speaker 1: So so no, I don't trust I don't trust women.
Speaker 1: I certainly want women. I don't know. If you want
Speaker 1: to get to know people as a couple, I'm for that.
Speaker 1: Let's hang out. I don't text for any other reason
Speaker 1: than to set appointments, like if i'm you know, setting
Speaker 1: a meeting with a pastor or something like that. I'm
Speaker 1: in ministry also, so I do communicate with pastors and
Speaker 1: elders and things. But my husband, he even jokes, this
Speaker 1: is funny, but like, we have this elder in our church.
Speaker 1: The man is in his seventies, godly man. He's like
Speaker 1: a father to me, like I've adopted him as my father.
Speaker 1: He gives me hugs, and he gives me kisses on
Speaker 1: my cheek. And my husband's like, look at old Jim
Speaker 1: trying to get put up on my wife.
Speaker 3: Look at Jim trying to run up.
Speaker 1: He's I can get a little too close. I was like, babe,
Speaker 1: mister Jim, come on, I adore that man.
Speaker 3: But no, so all.
Speaker 1: Joking asign you really have to be honest with your
Speaker 1: spouse and honest with what you're comfortable with, and not
Speaker 1: to feel intimidated or feel like you're being petty or
Speaker 1: jealous or whatever it is you and your spouse are important.
Speaker 1: You are the priority, and your feelings are important, and
Speaker 1: you want to respect those. So have a frank discussion
Speaker 1: and set boundaries and honor those boundaries, and that is
Speaker 1: the best thing you can do for your healthy marriage.
Speaker 3: A men. Amen, Well, y'all, this has been so great.
Speaker 2: I would love to hear maybe you have a different perspective,
Speaker 2: Maybe you have a different story, maybe you are like
Speaker 2: a unicorn and you.
Speaker 3: Have been able to navigate these botonic friendships with opposite
Speaker 3: genders with no issues.
Speaker 2: I want to hear from you, So if you would
Speaker 2: send me a DM on Instagram at missus Danish, I
Speaker 2: would love to hear your perspective, and I would love
Speaker 2: to hear if maybe something Sylvie your eyes said that
Speaker 2: really challenged you, or maybe hopefully cause you to think
Speaker 2: about something in a different way or gave you a
Speaker 2: different perspective. Our goal, like you just said, is we
Speaker 2: want your marriages, your relationships to be healthy. We want
Speaker 2: them to thrive. We want you all to be all
Speaker 2: that you can be as we are continuing to grow
Speaker 2: and so all that we can be. We've done a
Speaker 2: lot of things wrong, and we've done a lot of
Speaker 2: things right, and so we want to share the good,
Speaker 2: the bad, ugly, and all that happens with marriage, Sylvia.
Speaker 2: Before I let you go, I'm asking every guest that
Speaker 2: I have on the podcast, what has been your best
Speaker 2: relationship to someone has ever given you?
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's so many. Oh, especially doing what
Speaker 1: we do, Like there's like, oh, oh my goodness, you know,
Speaker 1: really communicate, Honestly, I think I stress that more than
Speaker 1: anything else. Like if you are not communicating, then your
Speaker 1: your marriage is operating with a broken leg. Because in
Speaker 1: all aspects, like your sex life will be better if
Speaker 1: you're communicating what you like and don't like totally, your intimacy,
Speaker 1: your relationship, your conflicts are going to be healthier if
Speaker 1: you're communicating. So you have to speak. There's nothing more
Speaker 1: irritating when than when someone says, my spouse doesn't do this,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, did you ask them? Did you tell no?
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do right, You got to tell
Speaker 1: them if you're not speaking it, they don't. They're not
Speaker 1: mind readers. So be verbal. Do not be shy, say
Speaker 1: what you want, say what you don't want, be clear,
Speaker 1: and then also be a good listener. If you're going
Speaker 1: to be speaking, you better be ready to receive too.
Speaker 1: But communication, Agi, there's nothing like it.
Speaker 3: So good, so good, Well, thank you, thank you. We'll
Speaker 3: have to have you back because you kept bringing up
Speaker 3: trauma bonds.
Speaker 2: That would be a great episode, So we'll have you
Speaker 2: back to talk about trauma bond.
Speaker 3: I love awesome. Well, guys, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2: You know, as we love to end every episode and saying,
Speaker 2: a good relationship is not one that works. A good
Speaker 2: relationship is one where you put in the work.
Speaker 3: Like's get to work with my friends. I'll see you
Speaker 3: on the next episode. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, that does it for this conversation. I
Speaker 2: hope that you really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope
Speaker 2: that maybe we provoked you to think about things a
Speaker 2: little bit differently, or perhaps you're like, no, Dana, I
Speaker 2: completely agree with everything that you and Sylvia talked about.
Speaker 2: There is probably nothing that makes me happier as a
Speaker 2: podcast host than to hear back from you all. So
Speaker 2: for those of y'all who send me emails and just
Speaker 2: say keep up the great work, we love the show.
Speaker 2: For those of you who have already posted reviews, I
Speaker 2: so appreciate that. And if you want to just give
Speaker 2: me your take, maybe you've got a different take, a
Speaker 2: different perspective, maybe you have a story in this particular
Speaker 2: area that you want to share with me. You can
Speaker 2: send all of your feedback to me at Danashay dot
Speaker 2: com fort slash contact.
Speaker 3: That's d A.
Speaker 2: Nache dot com fort slash contact. Well, I want you
Speaker 2: to also check out my friend Sylvia's work. She is
Speaker 2: an incredible marriage coach. She loves premarital counseling. I think
Speaker 2: I said that on the part one when I was
Speaker 2: giving her intro. So if you are getting married, or
Speaker 2: if you are married and you're looking for a marriage
Speaker 2: coach other than me, then you can find out more
Speaker 2: about Sylvia. So I'll be sure to link to her
Speaker 2: website and all things Sylvia in the show notes of
Speaker 2: this podcast, which you can find at Rebuilding Uspodcasts dot com.
Speaker 2: This is episode four one six. Thank you so much
Speaker 2: for being with us today. I hope that you and
Speaker 2: your spouse will have these conversations. And let me just
Speaker 2: say one thing before we wrap. I often say to
Speaker 2: my premarital clients, you need to have these conversations now.
Speaker 2: Do not wait until you're married, you've been married for five, six,
Speaker 2: seven years, and now y'all are arguing because of the
Speaker 2: whole platonic friend conversation. Have this conversation on the front
Speaker 2: end of your relationship, preferably before you get married, so
Speaker 2: that that way you all can determine what are our
Speaker 2: boundaries going to be, how are we going to operate
Speaker 2: in this marriage concerning platonic friends. So, with that being said,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here today on the episode,
Speaker 2: and I look forward to seeing you next week. Take
Speaker 2: care of my friends
Speaker 1: Had born at Rams