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Speaker 1: Relationship issues, relationship talk on seven O two.

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Speaker 2: Are you in a relationship where your wife or your

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Speaker 2: girlfriend out earns you in heterosexual context or have you

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Speaker 2: been in a relationship like that? Are you in a

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Speaker 2: relationship with you as the lady the girlfriend to the

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Speaker 2: wife in that relationship you out earn your partner. How

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Speaker 2: have those dynamics been for you? We're discussing on our

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Speaker 2: relationship each this morning, the dynamics in relationships where women

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Speaker 2: out and their partners.

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Speaker 3: More and more South.

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Speaker 2: African women, in fact, across the globe, you know, will

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Speaker 2: tell you that more than ever before, they are the

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Speaker 2: primary anas in their households. They are graduating in higher

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Speaker 2: numbers than men. They're building business, they're getting promoted. They're

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Speaker 2: the ones keeping the lights on, the school fees are paid,

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Speaker 2: the family is afloat, and nearly thirty eight percent of

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Speaker 2: South African households are now headed by women. I mean

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Speaker 2: six point one million homes where you are a financial backbone.

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Speaker 2: That's the kind of reality we're talking about here, and

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Speaker 2: that number is only growing. And it gets complicated because

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Speaker 2: we live in a country where the idea of a

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Speaker 2: man as a provider runs deep and not just in culture,

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Speaker 2: not just in tradition. It runs through how boys are raised,

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Speaker 2: how men are valued, and how couples are expected to function.

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Speaker 2: So when that dynamic flips, it doesn't just affect the

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Speaker 2: bank account. It actually affects the bedroom. It affects the

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Speaker 2: dinner table, It affects the way that she holds herself

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Speaker 2: around him, and the way he behaves himself in front of,

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Speaker 2: for instance, maybe his friends. You know, some women quietly

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Speaker 2: downplay their salaries so that partners don't feel small. Some

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Speaker 2: feel completely alone in a relationship where they carry everything

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Speaker 2: financially and emotionally. I want to know what your experience

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Speaker 2: has been if you and more than your partner. Maybe

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Speaker 2: you are the one that is the bread winner at home,

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Speaker 2: or maybe your partner is unemployed or has had issues

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Speaker 2: with their business. How has that affected your relationship, if

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Speaker 2: at all? And I'd like some positive stories as well.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's brought you guys closer together. Give us a

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Speaker 2: call on Oh one one eighty three h seven oh two.

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Speaker 2: And as the man as well, who is in a

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Speaker 2: relationship where the women ends more than them, have you

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Speaker 2: found that the dynamics have changed? Do you find you

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Speaker 2: are respected less and less. What is your experience? So

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Speaker 2: what's a blind oh seven two seven o two one

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Speaker 2: seven oh two do? Donala is a relationship coaching studio

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Speaker 2: with us to guide us through this conversation.

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Speaker 3: How are you doing to do?

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show, Good morning morning, How are

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Speaker 2: you ah good good good? So from your experience, how

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Speaker 2: common is this dynamic becoming here in South Africa?

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Speaker 1: It is a big topic at the moment, it really is,

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Speaker 1: and there's for various reasons. I think, you know, we

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Speaker 1: are at a place whereby we want women to economically

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Speaker 1: participate and be included in the economy, right, and what

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Speaker 1: has happened is that a lot of women have been

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Speaker 1: elevated in their careers. And then you take that and

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Speaker 1: you take that in the context of South Africa whereby

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Speaker 1: the role of the man is to lead in a

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Speaker 1: relationship and most of the time men have been leading

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Speaker 1: via their financial means, and understandably so, because what has

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Speaker 1: happened is that you have a culture that says you

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Speaker 1: take a girl from their father's house, you put them

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Speaker 1: in your house, and you look after them, and you

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Speaker 1: lead and you take care of your family. It's so

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Speaker 1: much pressure, yes, and that leadership mostly has been expressed

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Speaker 1: or exercised through the resources that you have, and this

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Speaker 1: is the reason why.

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Speaker 4: But to live in with that Inco Mosai.

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Speaker 1: You're right, because the more you can look after your family,

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Speaker 1: the more you are revered in society and so forth.

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Speaker 2: Do you think women are looking for that of late

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Speaker 2: in recent time? Because there used to be a time

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Speaker 2: where at least you know, most women or someone used

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Speaker 2: to say, my priority is financial stability. I need to

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Speaker 2: be with someone I know is going to be able

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Speaker 2: to take care of me and the family. And I

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Speaker 2: wonder if that is changing like in recent times? Do

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Speaker 2: we have women who say, as long as you care

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Speaker 2: about me, are those values changing? I suppose, is what

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to ask.

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Speaker 1: It's a yes and no answer. You have to understand

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Speaker 1: what informs somebody's values. So you are told a story

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Speaker 1: as a young child, right, whether you're explicitly told the

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Speaker 1: story or this story through observation and so forth, And

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Speaker 1: the observation that you have made or the that you've

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Speaker 1: been told is that a man leads, a man looks

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Speaker 1: after his family, that was deemed as a responsible man.

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Speaker 4: This sits in your subconscious right.

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Speaker 1: But then you also live in a time whereby you

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Speaker 1: don't need a man to buy a house, you don't

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Speaker 1: need a man to survive.

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Speaker 4: And what has happened because men.

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Speaker 1: Have led through the ability to provide in resources, they've

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Speaker 1: never worked on being likable. Right, So as long as

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Speaker 1: I provide and when men, when women no longer need

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Speaker 1: men to survive, they require men to be likable, right.

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Speaker 1: So what what's happening now is that you have females

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Speaker 1: who are saying that I'm not only prioritizing resources, I'm

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Speaker 1: also prioritizing the fact that you are likable. You know,

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Speaker 1: do you look after yourself? Are you a responsible member

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Speaker 1: of society? Are you mentally saying, right, show up because

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Speaker 1: some people are just special, right? Do you show up

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Speaker 1: in a manner that I desire you to show up?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 1: But also in their subconscious it's still sitting as I

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Speaker 1: need this man and.

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Speaker 4: To be resourceful.

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Speaker 1: So what happens is that sometimes women meet these men

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Speaker 1: who are extremely likable according to the standards that they've said.

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Speaker 4: But this man does not have money. This man can't

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Speaker 4: take me on a date.

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Speaker 1: This man can't take me to Dubai, this man can't

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Speaker 1: even pay for a bond for himself, never mind his family.

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Speaker 1: And so a lot of females are conflicted at the

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Speaker 1: moment because also you come back to a family and

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Speaker 1: you say I've meet a wonderful guy, and they said great,

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Speaker 1: and then they're like, tell me about this guy, and

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Speaker 1: you're like, no, I have to pay for the private

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Speaker 1: school fees and then the silence and the home right,

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of people who just don't want

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Speaker 1: to put themselves in that situation where father's going to

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Speaker 1: be silence over the partner that you have.

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Speaker 2: Even amongst friendships, I mean, if you go to your

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Speaker 2: friends like, oh, I went on a date. I met

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Speaker 2: this guy, Like, oh, one of the questions that come

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Speaker 2: is what does he do?

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Speaker 4: Exactly?

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Speaker 3: What does he do?

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Speaker 1: My friends are all in their forties right if they

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Speaker 1: meet a guy right now, and like sixty percent of

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Speaker 1: my friends are single with no kids.

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Speaker 4: If they meet a guy right.

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Speaker 1: Now, they're like, oh, I meet a guy, and so forth,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, so which private school always say extending

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Speaker 1: the kids to And then the moment of I'm like

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Speaker 1: and you're a bit too old to be building with

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Speaker 1: a man, right because it's sitting in my subconscious and

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Speaker 1: these things happen in a friendship.

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Speaker 4: And sometimes it's not on.

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Speaker 1: The basis of the fact that people are materialistic. It's

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Speaker 1: on the basis of the fact that you love this person,

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Speaker 1: you want to protect this person, and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I know you're at this income level.

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Speaker 4: Are you sure you want to carry a household? And

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Speaker 4: so forth?

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Speaker 1: So those a lot of women are conflicted. And I

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Speaker 1: think what also makes it difficult is that throughout this conflict,

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Speaker 1: then you have a man who is extremely finding it

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Speaker 1: difficult to adapt to these new gender roles. Right, So

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Speaker 1: most of the time you'll have these men going on

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Speaker 1: and saying they don't make the make them like our mothers.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to build with us, they call it

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Speaker 1: call us simps when we don't have money and so forth.

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Speaker 1: But if you dig a little bit deeper and you

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Speaker 1: see the dynamics they present in a relationship simply because

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Speaker 1: they have to adjust to new gender roles. They struggling

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Speaker 1: with the idea of what does leadership look like if

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Speaker 1: I don't have the money to lead in a relationhip

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Speaker 1: and share.

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Speaker 2: But some women as well will not want to take

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Speaker 2: leadership from someone who is not a provider exact sense

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Speaker 2: because again society said, you become a leader, but you're

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Speaker 2: a leader when you can provide.

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Speaker 3: How do you issue out instructions?

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Speaker 2: And you want to be firm when you're not really

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Speaker 2: doing much. And it's said because sometimes there are circumstances

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Speaker 2: that have led to that. There are men who have

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Speaker 2: just lost their jobs during COVID or maybe the business

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Speaker 2: went down.

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Speaker 1: And it's even harder for a guy to find a

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Speaker 1: job than a female. So if I had to go,

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Speaker 1: if both of us had to go and apply for

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Speaker 1: a role and go out there in LinkedIn today, I'm

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Speaker 1: more likely to get probably interviews faster than you would

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Speaker 1: actually get unless you had like a very unique skill. Right,

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Speaker 1: So what happened happens now is that you have these

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Speaker 1: gender roles and they're changing, and both sexes, because what

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Speaker 1: happens is that we're blaming each other. And I'm saying, actually,

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Speaker 1: we're both struggling with these gender roles, and we're both

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Speaker 1: struggling to come to a place where we say, how

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Speaker 1: do we move forward in this new context? Because the

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Speaker 1: new context is here. I mean, if you listen to

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Speaker 1: the esoterics, is that the energy that we have right

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Speaker 1: now is a very female, very cooperative.

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Speaker 4: And so forth.

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Speaker 1: So it's no wonder that the female is being elevated

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Speaker 1: in many spaces in society. So, whether from an esoteric

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Speaker 1: view and just a practicality view, and you're looking at

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Speaker 1: the trends that are happening, the reality is that we

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Speaker 1: are either moving into a lot of homes where you

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Speaker 1: need both dual incomes in order to survive, or you're

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Speaker 1: going to have a lot of And we've had in

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Speaker 1: South Africa the context, we've had female laid homes. But

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Speaker 1: we've had them because some men opted out of their responsibilities.

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Speaker 1: And that also, yeah, presents another complication to females because

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Speaker 1: they're like if I saw my mom hold the house

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Speaker 1: down because my dad was not interested, but now I'm

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Speaker 1: in the position where I have to even if the

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Speaker 1: man is interested. Do you understand what it triggers inside

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Speaker 1: a female.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's try to help.

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Speaker 2: Our listeners now who may be in situations like this,

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Speaker 2: and I want us to start with We'll deal with

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Speaker 2: couples who are in a situation like this, but let's

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Speaker 2: start with women who are probably getting into the dating

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Speaker 2: scene and they hold quite executive senior positions and they

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Speaker 2: often find themselves hooking up with guys who may probably

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Speaker 2: and much lesser than them. How should they should they

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Speaker 2: confidently walk into that date and be comfortable and honest

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Speaker 2: about who they are, because I've often heard women who say,

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Speaker 2: we often have to dumb ourselves down and even you know,

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Speaker 2: lie about your your finances, you know, lie about like

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Speaker 2: the position you hold, because you don't want the men

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Speaker 2: to feel like, Yo, this is gonna be tough.

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Speaker 3: So how do women then deal with that?

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Speaker 1: So just your question right now, they shouldn't do that, right,

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Speaker 1: It's not sustainable and it's not going to lead to

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Speaker 1: any happiness in the relationship. I always say to the woman,

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Speaker 1: if you don't see the hero him, don't date him. Right,

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Speaker 1: And you have to decide what constitute constitutes a hero

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Speaker 1: or the definition of a hero for your world, right

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Speaker 1: and in the context of the fact that, yes, you've

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Speaker 1: been told that a man is a hero if he

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Speaker 1: can look after you. But that was the construct of

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Speaker 1: society back then, and it worked in the construct of

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Speaker 1: the society then.

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Speaker 4: But right now you have to define what you see

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Speaker 4: as a hero.

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Speaker 1: Is this a man whether he earns two cents or not,

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Speaker 1: he's resourceful. Is this a man who takes accountability? Is

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Speaker 1: this a man who shows up? Is this a man

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Speaker 1: who takes leadership even if he doesn't have the.

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Speaker 4: Money to take leadership.

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Speaker 1: And you don't need to have money to take a

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Speaker 1: leadership like for me, if I have a burst tire, yes,

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Speaker 1: I can go and buy myself a tie and so

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Speaker 1: forth the reddit. But I'm stuck on the side of

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Speaker 1: the road and a man comes to my rescue. That

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Speaker 1: is it's a big thing, really, honestly.

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Speaker 3: Yourself.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, why am I even learning to.

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Speaker 1: The fact that you can come through for me is

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Speaker 1: a big thing, And I think sometimes that's what means

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Speaker 1: sometimes also, miss is that it's not necessarily about them,

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Speaker 1: even if you're coming through to get my card to

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Speaker 1: go and walk to the tire shop and go and

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Speaker 1: get a tie and come back with the tie.

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Speaker 3: Can I send someone to sort it out?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 1: What my husband will send somebody sorted out because he's

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Speaker 1: missy right. But also he's taking away that stress from

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Speaker 1: me by sending someone to sort it out with you.

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Speaker 2: Maybe, I ask you, babe, just going to the garage,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure the guys they can help.

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Speaker 1: Well, if I can't drive to the garage, somebody must

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Speaker 1: come through, right But what.

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Speaker 3: Okay, how was this saying?

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Speaker 1: But the point I'm trying to make is that define

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Speaker 1: what leadership looks like, right, And because when that person

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Speaker 1: shows up, whether they earn significantly less than you or

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Speaker 1: they earn the same amount as you, But if you

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Speaker 1: see those qualities, then you can respect the man. Because

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Speaker 1: what females need to understand is that men respect equate

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Speaker 1: respect to love. There's some men who actually can't tell

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Speaker 1: the difference between respect and love, right, So when they

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Speaker 1: feel respected, they feel love. And this is the reason

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Speaker 1: why they can enter into polygamous relationships because you're like,

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Speaker 1: there's no way your wives love you equally, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't care as long as they respect me equally.

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Speaker 1: So that's quite a big thing. And you cannot respect

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Speaker 1: a man whom you don't see the hero in. So

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Speaker 1: you have to define what a hero looks like. And

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Speaker 1: also ask yourself the tough questions that if I can't

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Speaker 1: get past the factor that he needs to earn a

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Speaker 1: certain amount to be a hero, is that my story

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Speaker 1: or is that the story I've been told by society?

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Speaker 1: What difference does it make? Why is it a big

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Speaker 1: thing in my particular world. We almost might have to

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Speaker 1: what do you call it? We have to drop the

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Speaker 1: stories that we were told as kids and adopt our

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Speaker 1: own stories. And unfortunately there are some people who for

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Speaker 1: them because based on their value systems and so what

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Speaker 1: the ability to provide will always be impotent. But rather

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Speaker 1: be honest with yourself from the beginning, and don't enter

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Speaker 1: a relationship where later you break down the man because

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Speaker 1: you cannot show up for the very same thing he

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Speaker 1: declared declared in the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so are you then saying the women who find

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Speaker 2: themselves in that situation. If someone is going on a

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Speaker 2: day tonight, must they be honest about who they are,

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Speaker 2: like I am a big shot in this company, that says,

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Speaker 2: and then take it from so, so don't try damm

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Speaker 2: it down to try and observe the situation.

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Speaker 1: If you cannot accept that narrative from the beginning, then

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Speaker 1: he has solved esteem issues and now you're going to

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Speaker 1: be dealing with a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes you've got men who also overcompensate when

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Speaker 2: they end lesser than their wives or girlfriends. I mean,

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Speaker 2: some of them then become controlling or aggressive because their

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Speaker 2: sense of self is unraveling and they have no language

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Speaker 2: for it. So what's your advice then for the men?

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Speaker 2: How can they deal with these dyna makes in a

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Speaker 2: marriage or in a relationship, Because, as you say, many

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Speaker 2: of us have been socialized to know and believe that

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Speaker 2: as men, we are there to provide and to lead.

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Speaker 2: And if I'm able to provide in the way society

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Speaker 2: has told me, my position is to provide way I

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Speaker 2: must make more money than I often will feel like

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Speaker 2: I am less off.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to use two rays to answer that question.

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Speaker 1: I think the first one is that they need to

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Speaker 1: get to the point where they have a conversation with

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Speaker 1: regards to what since what's they self?

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Speaker 4: A sense of self?

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Speaker 1: Sense of self is based on in terms of, you know,

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Speaker 1: the value that I provide to society? What is that

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Speaker 1: based on? But there's a beautiful way to explain and

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Speaker 1: to explain what you've just asked right now, and also

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Speaker 1: the dynamics in terms of why they struggle in relationships.

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Speaker 4: There's something called a transactional.

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Speaker 1: Analysis model when it comes to relationships, basically says you

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Speaker 1: can show up in three ways either as the parent,

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Speaker 1: or the adult or the child, and the adult is easy.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: When people are both adults in a relationship, they see

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Speaker 1: each other as equals. Right, they are both accountable for

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Speaker 1: this relationship. There's an equal amount of respect in these relationships.

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Speaker 4: Were usually the.

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Speaker 1: Woman out earns the male. This is the dynamic that

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Speaker 1: you see. What happens is that the woman takes on

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Speaker 1: the parent role. What happens when you are a parent

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Speaker 1: and you show up as a parent for anyone, that

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Speaker 1: person shows up as a child. And there's three ways

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Speaker 1: in which they show up as a child. They can

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Speaker 1: either show up as a child that listens to you.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's like, oh, okay, everything that you do,

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Speaker 1: I'm fine with it. And usually it starts like that, right,

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Speaker 1: And then what happens is that as this man goes

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Speaker 1: through this process of asking himself and also society. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I always make this joke and I say, one day,

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Speaker 1: this guy, whether we're talking about this guy and he

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Speaker 1: said he's a stay at home husband, And they asked him,

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Speaker 1: are you unemployed or are you a stay at home husband?

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Speaker 1: Because when females say they are stay at home wives,

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Speaker 1: everybody understands their stay at homewifs, and society is like

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Speaker 1: are you sure you're in that position because you want to.

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Speaker 1: So what happens is that because now these dynamics start

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Speaker 1: playing out, what happens is that they become their rebellious team, right,

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Speaker 1: And the rebellious team now starts questioning, pushing boundaries, doesn't

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Speaker 1: sleep at home. I want to be a man, I

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Speaker 1: want to exercise my right. Those toxic behaviors come through,

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Speaker 1: and so forth or whatever, and they go through this

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Speaker 1: never ending cycle. And the reason why that happens is

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Speaker 1: because of the fact that the female usually shows up

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Speaker 1: as a parent. And the thing is, men fall in

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Speaker 1: love by doing and not necessarily by receiving, right, And

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Speaker 1: whether we've they've been conditioned like this or this is

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Speaker 1: the nature of men and so forth. So what you

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Speaker 1: do is that when you keep doing and doing and

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Speaker 1: doing for this guy, he does not feel like he's

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Speaker 1: adding value in a relationship, right, And based on his

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Speaker 1: character as a man, he'll either be very rebellious or

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Speaker 1: he'll be very unhappy in that particular relya relationship. And

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Speaker 1: what happens is that he's going to keep on pointing fingers.

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Speaker 1: You do this to me, You don't respect me, you

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Speaker 1: don't like me, and whatever, and it becomes the child

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Speaker 1: and that child dynamic. In a relationship where there's a child,

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Speaker 1: a parent and a child, and this is a parent

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Speaker 1: in a child relationship, that relationship struggles and they have

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Speaker 1: to find a way to elevate each other to both

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Speaker 1: become adults in a relationship.

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Speaker 4: Stop doing what you need not to do.

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Speaker 1: And also start expecting the man to show up where

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Speaker 1: he needs to show up, and allow him to show

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Speaker 1: up and create that space.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I want to go to some whatsaps and calls.

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Speaker 2: We're getting lots of reaction from our listeners from this topic,

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Speaker 2: but quickly I I've seen a situation where the guy works,

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Speaker 2: the lady works. Lady wants the guy the kids to

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Speaker 2: go to a very expensive private school, and the guy says,

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Speaker 2: I kind of foret that, but here's this former model

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Speaker 2: city school. It's still good enough. It's a public school,

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Speaker 2: but it's a former model city school. It's good enough.

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Speaker 2: But mummy for the kids says, no, no, no, I

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Speaker 2: want my kids at that expensive private school and I

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Speaker 2: don't mind paying for it. But the guy feels, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's my responsibility as a man, and I don't want

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Speaker 2: you to pay for the kids. I'm saying, let's take

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Speaker 2: them here, And I've seen that become like a thing

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Speaker 2: that makes a couple fight. How do you resolve a

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Speaker 2: situation like that, Like, is this where a woman needs

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Speaker 2: to just accept it or is it a man who

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Speaker 2: must also just accept that this woman has the resources?

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Speaker 2: So what's wrong with sending the kids to get better

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Speaker 2: education at a private school?

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Speaker 1: Usually I say, two women, imagine when you get home.

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Speaker 1: You love cooking for your family, You love cooking, you

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Speaker 1: love the nurturing role in the relationship, and then your

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Speaker 1: husband says, you know, I just want to start eating chef.

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Speaker 4: What's food?

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get a shif and the ship is

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Speaker 1: going to come and they're going to cook every single

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Speaker 1: day in this house. Imagine what it does to you

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Speaker 1: because you start questioning yourself, don't you like my cooking?

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Speaker 1: And because you've seen entered your image around being a

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Speaker 1: nurturer and this is the value add in the relationship,

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Speaker 1: it does hit you big time. So in that instance,

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Speaker 1: as much as yes, you can afford that school, right,

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Speaker 1: you have to how you position the conversations must be very,

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Speaker 1: very different.

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Speaker 4: So it's not about letting go of your desire for

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Speaker 4: your kids to go to a good school.

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Speaker 1: But it's understanding that this man, the way he sees himself,

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Speaker 1: he's always seen himself in the role of it, in

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Speaker 1: the role in the relationship, as being able to provide,

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Speaker 1: and these are the things that he needs to provide

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Speaker 1: for the minute. Now you introduce something as I will

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Speaker 1: pay for it, because you can't. That dent't his image

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Speaker 1: of self. And it's how you position the relation at

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Speaker 1: the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I get it, all right, let's go those to

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Speaker 2: some calls now not to Let's start with you.

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Speaker 3: You're calling us from Rnberg.

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Speaker 6: Good morning, Good morning, Kevin, to help it good. So

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Speaker 6: you know, I think like maybe men have equated a

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Speaker 6: leadership with financial provisions, which I think they separate things

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Speaker 6: in a sense that I think women want a man

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Speaker 6: who can lead. Yes, we do want someone who can provide.

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Speaker 6: But if you can have all that money, but I'm

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Speaker 6: not able to lead your family for me, it doesn't

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Speaker 6: help because we want someone who's emotionally present. Because here's

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Speaker 6: the thing. I feel like when men have a financial crisis,

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Speaker 6: they're not present and they is stressed about the money

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Speaker 6: and then say no longer loving you and caring for you,

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Speaker 6: because for them, caring for you and loving you is

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Speaker 6: providing financiad, which for me, I don't think that's the way.

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Speaker 6: I think if there's financial issues, we both sit down

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Speaker 6: and you talk about it, and the money is our money,

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Speaker 6: it's not my man. Is not your money. I mean,

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Speaker 6: it depends on the woman that you date. But for me,

441
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 6: I'm like, the money we put the money in a

442
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 6: pot is our man. If you are married, it's our money.

443
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 6: It's not just your money, you know. So if you're

444
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 6: not leading the family spiritually, you're not leaving your kids, spiritually,

445
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 6: you're not leaving your wife, but you're bringing all this money,

446
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 6: it's not helpful. So now nowadays women are able to

447
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 6: bring in the money and men I think they're having

448
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 6: an identity crisis because it's like, what can I bring

449
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 6: into the table other than money? Yeah, you see, now

450
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 6: this has become an issue. So I think I think

451
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 6: that's that's my that's my two cents when it comes

452
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 6: to because even if you don't end as much, but

453
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 6: you have potential of starting your own business, show pretential

454
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 6: that you are. Yes, you've got a vision, Like women

455
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 6: want men who can lead and have a vision. I

456
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 6: want to see, like every day when I do go

457
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,199
Speaker 6: into you're a miracle. I want to see that you

458
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 6: have potential. You know, are you making me to go

459
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 6: to school, finish your studies, start your own business? Things

460
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 6: like that, you know, as long as you are Yeah, okay.

461
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: True, thank you so so much for that. That's quite

462
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 2: such valuable contribution that.

463
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 3: Thank you. I really appreciate your called namsa.

464
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: You're party.

465
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 3: What do you think?

466
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 7: Okay, how are you? I'm good with me. I My

467
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 7: excellience is that that I do a count telling for men.

468
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 7: They normally excellence this. Men have got general it's not

469
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 7: all of them have got inferiority complex. When the woman

470
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 7: is any match advices from the women for them, they

471
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 7: feel like you're advising me because you think I cannot think.

472
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 7: That's a great example that most of the time they

473
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 7: will raise. They will say, for instance, at West there

474
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 7: is a funcion where are invited and I'm taking my

475
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 7: husband with and then basically advising my husband, Okay, we're

476
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 7: gonna go for this function. May you please stress like

477
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 7: this and like this and like this, and then the

478
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 7: man will be they say that you will respond, now

479
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 7: he is a saga in other ways, I'm gonna make

480
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 7: you embarrassed in front of his friends. But meanwhile, a

481
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 7: man can marry any person. A man can even marry

482
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 7: a cleaner. But that cleena if they're gonna go and

483
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 7: like go for a function, she will make sure that

484
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 7: that the hell go well and he needs to outclass

485
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 7: the husband's coliques and then the problem. Most of the time,

486
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 7: they'll even say, when you advise this man, now you're

487
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 7: isn't that the man is bringing his left and you're

488
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 7: like saying, okay, I still have a friend who says

489
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 7: it tell you you can do open a guiding business. Okay,

490
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 7: it's that it's that's your boyfriend, that is that might.

491
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 7: So I think the most important thing is men are

492
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 7: able to listen to you. When the ladies are communicated,

493
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 7: then eventually they get frustrated and eventually you find that

494
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 7: it's no longer nice at home. It's just because this man.

495
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 7: When the poor woman tries to advise, the men think, no,

496
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 7: you are telling me just because we're never ailing better.

497
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 2: Than oh maybe you're unhappy with me. What way are

498
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: you getting this advice? And gets really tricky, thank you

499
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: for your calling. Campton Park It's eleventh y one.

500
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: Relationship Issues, Relationship Talk on seven.

501
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 2: Eight, twenty three minutes before twelve o'clock. We're speaking to

502
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 2: doing Clebatimate. Don Cella is a relationship coach about the

503
00:24:54,240 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: dynamics were women and more than their partners, their boyfriend

504
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 2: and their husband's How do you manage dynamics like that

505
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 2: so that they can be harmony and one person doesn't

506
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: feel inferior, but the other person doesn't also feel they

507
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: can manipulate the stronger financial position they're in to control

508
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 2: and manipulate. And that's our conversation, and I want to

509
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,239
Speaker 2: know what your experiences have been. Let's start with some

510
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 2: WhatsApps on seven two seven or two and seven or two.

511
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 8: We've been going through the same thing. In twenty twenty,

512
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 8: my husband's business collapse because of COVID. Luckily I had

513
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 8: a job and I still do have the same job,

514
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 8: but it was it was very hard on my husband

515
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 8: not to be able to care for us, and he

516
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 8: just climbed back up and now he's got his own

517
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 8: business again and he's striving. And I can see it.

518
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 8: I can see it in him. I can see it

519
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 8: in his face. I can see it. It's really necessary

520
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 8: that I think for some men to provide for their families.

521
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 8: I do see what it's doing. He's doing good now

522
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 8: it is it from pretoria.

523
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: Oh thank you for that.

524
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: So you can you can see now in his posture

525
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: and how he's available, maybe even emotionally, because maybe this

526
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: is now, this is his thing, this is what he

527
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: fundamentally wants to do.

528
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: It aligns with his values and.

529
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 2: Right and maybe that's why he comes alive now when

530
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: he's got the job back and the business is running again.

531
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 9: Hi, Clement, I think Mina personally, I miss those days

532
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 9: wheremen had the pride of providing because now as women,

533
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 9: we've been blessed now to lead organizations, we've been blessed

534
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 9: to make more income than men. Men just want to

535
00:26:54,119 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 9: use women now we we're their pocket for something. They

536
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 9: just want to come into the house with absolutely nothing.

537
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 9: They don't want to contribute. It's like the only thing

538
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 9: they contribute is a company. They give you a company

539
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 9: and anything else you must provide for them. So me personally,

540
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 9: I use those guys that I have pride of providing.

541
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 9: If there's them, they I hope they can increase in number.

542
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 4: This is what.

543
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean someone who just wants to contribute their company,

544
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 2: and that tell me I bought a company, I think, but.

545
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 4: I was never really.

546
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: But do you see what I mean about how women

547
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: are conflicted? Because there's this guy who's coming in, he's

548
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: becoming emotionally available.

549
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 4: He's providing you the company.

550
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 1: He's thinking, he's giving emotional support because I mean, there's

551
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: nothing else he can provide. And then but your company

552
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: is not good enough.

553
00:27:58,520 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 4: Do you see how conflicted that is?

554
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: But what if you can provide but you just choose

555
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: to because you think, ah, Dodo is an independent woman

556
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: who drives her own big cars, who can afford to

557
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: go to so let her pay for these things.

558
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: It's immaterial what the other person thinks when they come

559
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: into the relationship. What is material is what you allow

560
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: and don't allow. I don't know if you get what

561
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: I mean. What I mean is that if as somebody

562
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: is complaining that someone is coming in because they want

563
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: to use me or so forth, and everyone gets exposed

564
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: to people who want to use them. It's like the

565
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: same as women saying, oh, I only get us st

566
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: out by married men. Guess what, everybody gets usked out

567
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: by married men. You're the one who allows them into

568
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: their particular space. So what I'm trying to say is

569
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: that I think what we need to move away from

570
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: is we need to move away from the I do expect,

571
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: and I don't want to be misgrouted here. I do

572
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: expect people to show up as decent members of society

573
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: at the right values. Don't go around using people and

574
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: so forth. But the minute you are in a relationship

575
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: where you feel this person is more of a taker

576
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: than the giver, remember the power lies with you in

577
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: order to be able to rectify this, whether you get

578
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: rid of this person or you are very clear in

579
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: terms of what your non negotiables are.

580
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 4: And I think the thing of.

581
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: Waiting for the other person to self correct behavior, then

582
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: society wouldn't exist. This is the reason why we have laws.

583
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: If you kill somebody, you go to jail. If you

584
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: do this, you go to jail, because we realize that

585
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: that some people do not have the ability to self

586
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: correct if they are not consequences for their actions.

587
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 4: And sometimes as women, we are.

588
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: Very we're not very good at creating consequences because yes

589
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: we soft, we loving creatures, but at some point we

590
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: need to be able to give clear boundaries, not unhealthy boundaries,

591
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: clear boundaries as to how we want to be treated.

592
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, quiet Clement the team.

593
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 10: I don't know if I'm of the arail in terms

594
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 10: of the topic, but what I find is on the

595
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 10: scene now is that it's more of a classism.

596
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 3: What do you have? What can you provide?

597
00:29:58,240 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 5: To?

598
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 10: Do you stay? Where do you work? As he said,

599
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 10: that sort of tains everything and just spoils. I personally

600
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 10: believe that there's no more pure love. Let's build, let's grow,

601
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 10: or let's help each other finish off what we have growing.

602
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 10: It's all about materialistic I like to remain and animacy.

603
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: Thank you.

604
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: I mean, that's there's a point to that now, see

605
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 2: how I'm jumping up.

606
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 4: And he just asked the right question.

607
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: And basically what has happened in South Africa in terms.

608
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 4: Of the black.

609
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: Societies that post nineteen ninety pre nineteen ninety four, we

610
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: were all fighting for a common cause, right, we wented liberation.

611
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 4: All of us had more or less the same resources

612
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 4: and so forth and whatever.

613
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: And that pure love was there because of the fact

614
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: that you know, we both had the equal amount to give.

615
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: But now what we see as classism, and especially the

616
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: black middle class and upper middle class is being accused

617
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: of this classism is that you're finding this inequality now

618
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: in society, and you're also finding a group of people

619
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: who have assets to protect. So if I have a

620
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: son and the son is going to inherit ten million

621
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: and so forth, and whatever the values I'm going to

622
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: impartn my son, is that you're not going to go

623
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: and find a slave queen and then this ten million.

624
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: I built this ten million for nothing. So what we're

625
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: observing now in society is people you remember, marriage was

626
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: always centered around the construct of protecting assets.

627
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 4: That was the intention of.

628
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: Marriage if you look across all societies and so forth,

629
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: and whatever the reason why, Back before nineteen ninety four,

630
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: the idea of protecting assets was not core when a

631
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: lot of people were marrying each other. It was about

632
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: marrying into the family with the right reputation, which had

633
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: replaced protection of assets. Right, you know, the good family,

634
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: a right reputation, and blah blah blah blah blah. And

635
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: now that we do have the assets, and any society

636
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: that starts accumulating assets, and you're seeing that classism whereby

637
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: now you know, back then a guy could be an engineer,

638
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: and then he could marry a cleaner. Like the guy

639
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: said before, Now the family looks at you and says

640
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: you're going to marry who?

641
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 3: Why?

642
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: And so forth, because now there's a protection of assets.

643
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: So this is the natural evolution of any society where

644
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: there's inequalities. And we're also people are progressing faster than

645
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: other people.

646
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 4: Is it a bad thing?

647
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, right, I mean, I do care his

648
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: point in saying that you know what happens to pure love, right,

649
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: which goes into another definition of what is love. We

650
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: all have different definitions of what love is. Yes, for me,

651
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: I feel love when I'm taking care of right and

652
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: so forth, So we all have different definitions of love.

653
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 4: And what you're seeing now.

654
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: Is a society that's going and even this gender dynamics

655
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: and you're seeing with women out earning men and so forth.

656
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: I think South Africans forget that we are still going

657
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: through a transition period as a society, and also we

658
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: are finding our identity and also in these moving parts

659
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: and so many things happening globally and so forth. And

660
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: what you're seeing right now with this whole classism, is

661
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: a society because now we're having a class system amongst

662
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: black people and something that we probably had tree about it,

663
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: but now it's coming back, but we don't know how

664
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: to navigate that.

665
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 2: Space my worries. It's also trickling down to these young ones.

666
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 2: I mean you often see tips of these young ladies

667
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: who are still at the university or have just started working,

668
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: and when they talk about what kind of guy do

669
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: you like? He must have a car, And I'm like, man,

670
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: you can't even drive. You don't even spell a license. Yes,

671
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: you want a man who has a car.

672
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: Buts or instant gratification culture, maybe it.

673
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 3: Is dead, but it's not founded on what relationships? Should

674
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: you know?

675
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,479
Speaker 2: Because I would imagine that the fact that someone has

676
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: a car, how is that a good foundation and value

677
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: for a relationship?

678
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 3: How can that define I have?

679
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 4: And it's space.

680
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: The lady who was talking about counseling women, right, it's

681
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: re sparked in that A lot of the time when

682
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: we have these conversations on what we should or shouldn't do,

683
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: what is right and what is not right, I find

684
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: that the reason why a lot of people go around

685
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: in circles is because we discount human behavior right, and

686
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: we discount human behavior on two levels on what really

687
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: really makes us humans. So, for example, I'll tell humans

688
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: human beings are aspirational beings. You can put a bunch

689
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: of five year olds on an island. They will have

690
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: a class system if you get there in thirty years time.

691
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 4: Right, So they're aspirational beings. But there's also.

692
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: Human behavior because of socialization. And what happens is that

693
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 1: if we solve outside these two foundational things that really

694
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: drive the reason why we wake up every single day.

695
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: Because we're driven by these things, whether it's innate or

696
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: is because of how we are socialized.

697
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 4: You're going to try.

698
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: It's like, for example, you know, when you are solving

699
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: for a female that has a toxic attachment and you

700
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: want them to leave this relationship because and it's the

701
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: obvious he hits you and so forth and whatever. But

702
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 1: do you discount to the fact that they were socialized

703
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: or brought up in a certain way and they associated

704
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: love with either anxious, being an anxious avoidant or being

705
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: a dismissive avoidant and so forth, And you don't solve

706
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,959
Speaker 1: for that trauma first, you are never going to solve

707
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: for this woman leading this toxic relationship. And the point

708
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make with us, is this some of

709
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: the things is that can we find solutions around our

710
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: humanness instead of actually sitting and saying because we've tried

711
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: this right and I think this is a probably a

712
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: twenty year conversation. These trains that we've see right now,

713
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: they've been emerging slowly and slowly in society and we've

714
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: tried different things, and it's not working.

715
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 4: And this is my view. You're right, and maybe a

716
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 4: sociologist can come in.

717
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: I think the reason why it's not working is because

718
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: we design systems that discount our humanness, and maybe we

719
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: need to try and first understand what makes us human,

720
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: why do we do the things that we do, and

721
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: then try to solve from there instead of solving from

722
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: the other part.

723
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: Twelve minutes before twelve relationship issues, relationship talk on seven

724
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 2: o two.

725
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: There's nine minutes before topboot clock.

726
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, let's go to some whatsups seventy seven

727
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:19,479
Speaker 2: two and seven two.

728
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 11: Relationship these days are transactional period, so people are in

729
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 11: relationship for money, especially women, even the women that are

730
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 11: with money. Natural or traditionally women has always been hypogrammas.

731
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 11: So it's a pity that with affirmative action, now women

732
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 11: are landing ladder economically more than men. So most of

733
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 11: women these days are doing better than men. So we

734
00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 11: are left with the situation where they cannot find their

735
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 11: dating maids because as men, we are no way.

736
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 4: So myself in this dating thing.

737
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 11: I check out. I'm out. I just want to deal

738
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 11: on myself. I just want to make sure that I'm

739
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 11: doing good. I don't have time to be stressed by somebody,

740
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 11: so I just want to provide for myself and make

741
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 11: sure that I'm good at the stress of dating.

742
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 5: I'm out of it, Okay, So I think people should

743
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 5: move away, both men and women about to provide a mentality?

744
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 5: Why should the guard provide for what? What is she

745
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 5: going to contribute? And the convers applies as well. In

746
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 5: this day and age, you need the dual income, you

747
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 5: need private medical aid, private schooling, insurance, security, all kinds

748
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 5: of things, and yet we have It's okay, idea that

749
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 5: know the guy, I must provide. Those days are long gone,

750
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 5: long long gone. Women also have to contribute. I mean,

751
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 5: what's the point in getting married and then giving away

752
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 5: fifty percent of everything you have? There's no place in

753
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 5: society for that none whatsoever. And I look at what's

754
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 5: happening in the US. Black men are walking away from it.

755
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 5: They'll provided thing. Why should he provide? If you want

756
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 5: to spend ten thousand around in your head, that's use

757
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 5: your own money. You know, I prefer to your my

758
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 5: anonymous because this is a massively contentious issue.

759
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't worry, you will remain animus. You spoke

760
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: about when you spend fifty percent. There was a question

761
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 2: that came earlier on about like budgeting. You know, when

762
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: a partner ends more, it can sometimes shift the power

763
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: dynamics in a relationship. So how can couples make sure

764
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: like financial differences don't translate into emotional imbalance. So if

765
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: the man was the one who was sort of deciding like, okay,

766
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 2: we do this this and suddenly you and more as

767
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 2: a woman, and now you want to take over that responsibility,

768
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 2: or can the men still somehow have control over even

769
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: your finances even when their business has gone down, and

770
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: you still keep the principle that existed in the family,

771
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: in the household that.

772
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 3: He leads, so you lead with your salary as well.

773
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in relationships, you'll find that it doesn't necessarily

774
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: mean because somebody is earning more that they are better

775
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: with money. There are instance is where the person who

776
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: actually owns the least is the one who's ingreat with

777
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: budgeting and controlling the money and so forth. And I

778
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: think to answer that question, the main thing is this

779
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: is that you must be clear in terms of what

780
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: vision you have for your family. So if the vision

781
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: for the families that I want well educated kids, I

782
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: want a nervous a regulated nervous system. You must come home,

783
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: they must be food, they must be warmth, and so

784
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: forth and whatever. If I have to take over certain

785
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: responsibilities in order to keep that vision going, trust me,

786
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: it's not difficult. I think the most important thing is

787
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 1: that most couples need to have the vision for their family.

788
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: You know that couples whereby everybody, I earn what I earn,

789
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: I pay what I pay, but nobody knows what we

790
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 1: really do with our money in this whole. And that's

791
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: because you haven't defined a vision for that family. Because

792
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: once you to find a vision for your family, you

793
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: can be able to say I'm going to compromise on

794
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: a ten thousand rand's work, because this is why we're

795
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: trying to achieve or my partner is trying to achieve ABCD.

796
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: So I'm going to hold back on certain expenditure because

797
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: of this and less so I think that is the

798
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: way to sort it. But the main thing I want

799
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: to say, because I see time and I wish like

800
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: policy makers could actually listen to this conversation. What you're

801
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: finding right now in South Africa is that you're finding

802
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: a dynamic in the market whereby there's certain decisions that

803
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: have been made, even made at a policy level, that

804
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: we are seeing unintended consequences as off. So take a

805
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: girl child to school, elevate the female and so forth

806
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,959
Speaker 1: and whatever. And what happens is that And I don't

807
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: think from a policy makeup perspective, this is because of oversight.

808
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: This is because now we're seeing the results of that

809
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: playing out and it's a trial and error. What happens

810
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: in a society whereby the man is under utilized or

811
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: the man feels that he cannot contribute fully to society.

812
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 1: A society where I'm man cannot look after himself, he

813
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: doesn't have the confidence to look after a female. And

814
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: when you have a society where you have a man

815
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: who does not have the confidence to look after a female.

816
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: It does not show up as a great partner in

817
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: a relationship. And what happens is that you have then

818
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: females who want to and when you want, when you

819
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: want any society to thrive, we have to make sure

820
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: that the family structure is intact. Then you have females

821
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: who are looking, who are working on themselves, and then

822
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: you have men who are practically depressed or have opted

823
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: out of society and so forth, and that impacts the

824
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: family structure of South Africa. That trickles into crime, that

825
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: trickles into other things and other areas in society. So

826
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: right now, we used to think because we had structures

827
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: in place, because we had a patriarchal society at that

828
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: moment that organized the societies for us and whatever, we

829
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 1: underestimated the power of relationships and dating and how you

830
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: actually build a society. This could actually be linked directly

831
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: even to GDP. So what we need to do right

832
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: now we need to sit down and say what kind

833
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: of a society do we want to build, because now

834
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: we've seen we've seen that the the the unintended consequences,

835
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: and say, how do we then link that to a

836
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: strategic plan to say, how do we move this country

837
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 1: forward and make sure that we have the family structure

838
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: in place, because in closing, if you don't have a

839
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: proper family structure in place, you'll continue to spend on

840
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: mental health, on healthcare, on crime, on this, on this,

841
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: on this Amen holiday.

842
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: How do we then build that family structure is a

843
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 2: conversation I want I have with you when you come back,

844
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 2: and maybe we can help our listeners with that. Do

845
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 2: club out to me, Donzilla relationship coach, Thank you so

846
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 2: much for making time for us.

847
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 3: Thank you