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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk little.

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Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Critis has brought to you

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Speaker 3: by Abster Corporate and Investment Banking, proud sponsors of GTR

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Speaker 3: Africa twenty twenty six, enabling trade flows for growth ABSs

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Speaker 3: registered fsp Good evening, nine minutes after six. Good to

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Speaker 3: be back with you tonight. Thank you to Africa Milani

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Speaker 3: for standing in for me yesterday. A very busy corporate day.

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Speaker 3: Lots of different news. I suppose if I had to

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Speaker 3: pick and choose probably the two most interesting stories and

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Speaker 3: that might well have long term consequences. The one would

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Speaker 3: be SPA announcing what they call voluntary seven, so they're

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Speaker 3: letting workers go bluntly and they've had all sorts of issues.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk to the Finance Ghost. Never spoken to the

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Speaker 3: finance ghost before, have read that of their work many times.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure you have two about the situation at SPA.

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Speaker 3: And the other interesting story is mister Price. Capital Markets

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Speaker 3: day today, their CEOs, their management backing the decision to

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Speaker 3: buy NKD, the Central European retailer investors taking a listen,

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Speaker 3: contemplating for a moment and then the share price fell

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Speaker 3: four percent. Really astonishing story in a way. And we've

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Speaker 3: heard from shareholders before they really don't like that deal.

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Speaker 3: There's something about it they don't like. We'll talk, as

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Speaker 3: I say to the finance ghost about SPA in about

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Speaker 3: ten minutes. Jury Stradum is the CEO at Old Mutual.

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Speaker 3: They had very strong results the headline eings. Just at

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Speaker 3: headline earnings, I should say, twenty four percent. Also, of

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Speaker 3: course the announcement that Roger Jardine will be their new

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Speaker 3: cha He worked here, I remember working I remember working

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Speaker 3: under him very very well. He was the chair at

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Speaker 3: Prime Media, He's been at Avenge, he's the chair at

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Speaker 3: First Round as well. Now moving on to Old Mutual.

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Speaker 3: Fascinating to watch all the banking results that we've seen

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Speaker 3: over the last little while. A PwC has been going

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Speaker 3: through all of them, talking about the sort of strengths

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Speaker 3: in our banking sector, some of the decisions they are

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Speaker 3: being made, they've been making. We'll speak to Francois prince

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Speaker 3: Lua at PwC Africa's Banking and Capital Markets leader at

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Speaker 3: around six forty or so. And you may recall last

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Speaker 3: week I made the point and I think it's an

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Speaker 3: interesting point. I made the point that black economic empowerment

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Speaker 3: very controversial. We often hear arguments against it. I mean

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Speaker 3: all the time. I could probably point to a piece

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Speaker 3: a day that's written about it in the sort of

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Speaker 3: common by the commentaria. We don't hear the argument for it.

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Speaker 3: And I said, if it's only the ANC that is

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Speaker 3: for it, when if the ANC goes, could that be

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Speaker 3: the end of bee? Will someone defend it? Well, I'm

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Speaker 3: pleased to tell you that rafil mon Ching's the sea

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Speaker 3: at the Black Entrepreneurs Alliance. He was listening to me

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Speaker 3: that night. He says, yes, he will defend it. I

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Speaker 3: think that's going to be quite important and I just

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Speaker 3: should just tell you after seven o'clock the Discovery Life

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Speaker 3: debutyco Gareth Friedlander, they've had issues. Well, they've been some

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Speaker 3: very interesting data and they've been spending a lot of

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Speaker 3: money on the early detection of cancer. You can understand

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Speaker 3: why because for them, the earlier they detected, the less

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Speaker 3: cost the less costs down the road. Obviously it saves

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Speaker 3: lives too, and some of the ways they're changing that

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Speaker 3: does seem to be working out for them. Good to

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Speaker 3: hear from you, tonight O double ONEA A three oh

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Speaker 3: seven two two one four four six O five six

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Speaker 3: seven and seven two seven oh two one seven oh two.

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Speaker 3: The Laly Show with Stephen Krudis live on ninety two

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Speaker 3: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 3: Media Plus.

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Speaker 4: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: Well a busy day for Old Mutual, announcing Roger Jardine

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Speaker 3: will replace Trevor Manueli's chair in junis. Headline earnings for

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Speaker 3: the year to the end of December are by twenty

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Speaker 3: four percent. That's adjusted headline earnings. I should say the

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Speaker 3: CEO at Old Mutual's Jury Stratum a jury, good evening,

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for your time. Obviously different things happening

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Speaker 3: in different parts of your business. Old Mutual Ensure increased

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Speaker 3: their group gross written premiums. Not the only insurance company

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Speaker 3: to do well here in the last year or so.

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Speaker 3: Are you seeing there's a bit more demand maybe for

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Speaker 3: insurance at the moment, Hi.

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Speaker 5: Stephen, to be good to be with you, Yeah, I think,

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Speaker 5: I mean our businesses has had a good year. I

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Speaker 5: mean I think I've signed before that we really think

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Speaker 5: that we've turned around the performance of Old Mutually insure

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Speaker 5: and you know, we're poised to regain market share. And

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Speaker 5: you know, I think for us, it's been more period

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Speaker 5: of kind of restoring margins, which I think we've done

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Speaker 5: successfully and improving operationally and we you know, you've got

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Speaker 5: a very extensive use of data and AI and I

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Speaker 5: think that is going to translate into growth and market

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Speaker 5: share for us.

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Speaker 2: And I do think the demand is there.

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Speaker 3: Your loans and advances were done, I think it was

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Speaker 3: four percent and your finance loan book overall down three percent,

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Speaker 3: and you said today you wanted to improve the quality

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Speaker 3: of the book. Also, you're not the only financial institution

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Speaker 3: that's done that in the last year where your non

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Speaker 3: performing loans were maybe just a little concerned they're rising

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Speaker 3: a little bit above what you wanted.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So you know, I think you go through cycles,

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Speaker 5: don't you, with these with with lending businesses.

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Speaker 2: I think we went.

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Speaker 4: Through a through a period the.

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Speaker 5: Last year or two where we've we've been wanting to

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Speaker 5: tighten up somewhat and deal with some of these non

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Speaker 5: performing some deal with a non performing loan issue. But

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Speaker 5: we're comfortable now with with where that book is, how

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Speaker 5: the book is performing. And we've also actually started growing

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Speaker 5: loans advances again, so learn advances growing up again by

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Speaker 5: twenty two percent this year.

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Speaker 2: So we really are back.

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Speaker 5: Into a growth phase for that business, which of course,

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Speaker 5: as you know, is we've merged into our own bank

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Speaker 5: business in that cluster. And so actually the success of

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Speaker 5: both of those businesses is a very closely coupled together.

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Speaker 5: It's very important for us to the launch of the

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Speaker 5: bank that we have a strong platform in the finance business.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that does make sense, and I mean the bank

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Speaker 3: everyone used to have a bank. Nowadays you did a

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Speaker 3: soft launch, approach employees and customer there's then your own customers,

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Speaker 3: then sort of open to the public. Are you happy

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Speaker 3: with the interest that it's evoked? Have you seen a

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Speaker 3: strong response? I mean, you're happy with the progress it's

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Speaker 3: making so far.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we've we are still signing up three

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Speaker 5: thousand customers a day.

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Speaker 6: You know, I think we've gotten up that.

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Speaker 5: He wont December two hundred and eighty four thousand customers,

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Speaker 5: so and you know, no, it keeps growing. So I

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Speaker 5: think comfortable with customer attraction. We haven't actually even yet

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Speaker 5: gone for a for a for our public launch, you know,

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Speaker 5: our marketing campaigns that will be in Q two of

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Speaker 5: this year. So for now we've been focused on whilst

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Speaker 5: we've been open to the public, we've we've we have

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Speaker 5: been focused on conversion of all Mutual clients, you know,

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Speaker 5: integration with our rewards program and so on, and those

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Speaker 5: things have gone have gone well. We've also seen almost

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Speaker 5: half the customers actually being originated through through our branch network.

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Speaker 5: And you might call you know, one of the big

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Speaker 5: one of the big things for us is to take

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Speaker 5: advantage of Old Mutual's physical presence. So whilst we have

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Speaker 5: the the new technology stack and we've got the customer

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Speaker 5: experience on the app, which we think is world class,

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Speaker 5: we were able to combine that with a kind of

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Speaker 5: in branch face to face experience and that and that

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Speaker 5: really is a competitive advantage relative to some of the

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Speaker 5: other digital only new entrants.

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Speaker 3: You you were talking about lower annuity and retirement fund

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Speaker 3: umbrella sales and that did have an impact on you.

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Speaker 3: I presume you're going to try and improve that. Is

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Speaker 3: there an issue with that sector?

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Speaker 5: You know, it's actually an industry issues and there so

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Speaker 5: the guaranteed anuity market tends to we tends to rotate

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Speaker 5: well annuity is generally people retiring, they tend to choose

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Speaker 5: a guaranteed annuity or a linked annuity, which is just

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Speaker 5: you know, as you know, one where you just take

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Speaker 5: the investment risk yourself.

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Speaker 3: It's not guaranteed.

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Speaker 5: It depends on on on the pricing of the guaranteed

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Speaker 5: nuities and in particular where bond yields are. So actually

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Speaker 5: we've seen across the board with South African bondules coming down,

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Speaker 5: people tending to favor LinkedIn nuities more and so that's

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Speaker 5: really not been an old mutual issue per se, but

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Speaker 5: more of an industry issue, and well, you know it

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Speaker 5: will tend to follow the cycle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that does make sense. You're obviously, like everyone, a

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Speaker 3: bit worried about current geopolitics. You say, our situation. I

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Speaker 3: think the phrase you use has actually become more constructive.

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Speaker 3: How optimistic are you? I mean it seemed at the

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Speaker 3: beginning of the year lots of room for optimism. The

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Speaker 3: situation around you around the Middle East. The oil price

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Speaker 3: obviously will have an impact on us, and we can't

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Speaker 3: avoid that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that it's I mean, of course, we

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Speaker 5: all find it very troubling. I mean, I think it

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Speaker 5: does depend with outstanding the obvious. It does depend on

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Speaker 5: how sustained the crisis is, right and what that then

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Speaker 5: means for full prices and then the knock on of

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Speaker 5: the knock on, you know, into into the rest of inflation.

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Speaker 4: So I think, you know, the the.

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Speaker 5: A prolonged crisis would I think be a much bigger

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Speaker 5: bump in the road for South Africa and for everyone else.

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Speaker 4: Frankly in dealing with.

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Speaker 3: It, yeah, and working with Roger Dargin, I mean, I

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Speaker 3: must just point out he ran the company that owns

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Speaker 3: this radio station for a while. He was chair at first,

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Speaker 3: ran to lots of experience in your space. You're looking

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Speaker 3: forward to that, yeah, very much.

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Speaker 4: So very much.

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Speaker 5: So, you know, we were comparing notes a few moments ago.

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Speaker 5: It's it's been a good day for us, I think,

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Speaker 5: and you know, he's he's so highly regarded, so experienced.

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Speaker 5: I think that the news has landed very well and

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Speaker 5: so yep, we were delighted.

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Speaker 3: Surrey, straight and good to chat. Thanks so much, CEO

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Speaker 3: at Old Mutual. Nineteen minutes after six The.

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Speaker 4: Money Show with Stephen on seven two seven two.

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Speaker 3: News from SPA Today, they're implementing what they call a

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Speaker 3: voluntary severance program. I mean basically letting some workers go.

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Speaker 3: You know the context of this, there problems for the

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Speaker 3: implementation of that SAP software system. Then their CEO resigned

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Speaker 3: and exp actively about three weeks ago. Their last AGM

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Speaker 3: saw a bit of pushback against one of the powers

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Speaker 3: that had been made. The Finance Ghost is a retail

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Speaker 3: analyst and commentating you. They've seen his work on Moneyweb Daily, Maverick,

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Speaker 3: many other places and from now for the first time

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Speaker 3: on The Money Show, mister Ghost, good evening, Thanks for

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Speaker 3: your time. I mean, SPA has been through a rough time,

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Speaker 3: but to let workers go really might be seen as

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Speaker 3: a signal of something.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a signal of a lot of things. And

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Speaker 7: thanks for having me on the show. Let me just

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Speaker 7: start there. Look, these things never come out of nowhere.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I've been following the SPA for quite some

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Speaker 7: time now. I've actually tried to buy into that turnaround

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Speaker 7: and unfortunately being pretty disappointed. It's one of those things

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Speaker 7: where every time you think it can't get.

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Speaker 4: Worse than it does get worse.

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Speaker 7: And it really harks back to just when things started

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Speaker 7: to go run for them in Europe plus it started

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Speaker 7: to go run here and then it felt like they

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Speaker 7: were just putting fires out literally everywhere, and unfortunately, and

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Speaker 7: that starts to become the case for a company.

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Speaker 4: Eventually something has got.

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Speaker 7: To give, and you know, stuff like trying to say've

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Speaker 7: costed head off as fine, But I think that it

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Speaker 7: really comes down to what's going on at store level,

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Speaker 7: what's going on in the grocery market.

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Speaker 4: It's a huge struggle for them. At the moment.

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Speaker 7: SPA is a shadow of the business at once wise,

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Speaker 7: and they have a lot of work to do to

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Speaker 7: try and fix it.

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Speaker 3: We've heard some other commentary in the past about this

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Speaker 3: that one of the problems might just be the structure.

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Speaker 3: It holds it back. So a shop right, for example,

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Speaker 3: obviously the success story to compare everything to at the moment,

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Speaker 3: they own most of their stores. That means that they

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Speaker 3: can sort of make sure and manage their delivery system

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Speaker 3: for SPA, most of their outlets are sort of individually

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Speaker 3: owned a franchise system. That makes that difficult. I mean,

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Speaker 3: is their structure sort of working against them.

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Speaker 7: So in the New world, it is working against them

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Speaker 7: as we speak, But I'm also not one hundred percent

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Speaker 7: sure that it has to work against them, So being

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Speaker 7: differentiated is not a fair thing if I use the

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Speaker 7: example of pick and pay at the moment, unfortunately, pick

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Speaker 7: and pay feels like just a bit of a bad

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Speaker 7: version of the business the shop right current.

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Speaker 4: He has right, they're not really differentiated.

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Speaker 7: They're doing all the same things they are trying to

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Speaker 7: do on demand, et cetera, but they're not executing to

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Speaker 7: the kind of standard that works, whereas the spa they

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Speaker 7: can actually do something different. You know, the joy of

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Speaker 7: the franchise model is that they've got people who own

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Speaker 7: these stores often live in the communities.

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Speaker 4: Where the store is, or at least they know the community.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 4: Why when you go to a spa, it's always interesting.

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Speaker 7: A really great spa, in my opinion, remains almost unbeatable.

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Speaker 7: It's got probably the best butchery, and it's got stuff

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Speaker 7: that reflects the area that you'll find in and its

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Speaker 7: own cultural nuances and what people are buying. And you

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Speaker 7: can actually find the owner and tell that person what

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Speaker 7: you like and what you don't like, and ask for

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Speaker 7: something on the shelf. You're never in your life going

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Speaker 7: to get that experience at Willwards, which is very much.

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Speaker 4: A stamped out thing over and over again.

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Speaker 7: That's how they win and Checkers is this absolute efficiency animal.

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Speaker 4: So it is hard for them.

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Speaker 7: And the biggest issue why the franchise model is a

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Speaker 7: huge problem is because they just don't have access to

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Speaker 7: store level data. They don't have the ability to layer

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Speaker 7: on a fulfillment engine like check is sixty sixty and

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Speaker 7: basically say cool, this service is all our stores and

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Speaker 7: connects all of them to customers, spar to you. I honestly,

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Speaker 7: I think I've seen those vehicles on the road maybe twice.

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Speaker 7: Whereas if you throw a stone at the moment, you'll

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Speaker 7: hit a sixty sixty person on a scooter.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, absolutely. I mean you just can't get in

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Speaker 3: your car and not see them in some urban areas. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so what does management do. They've got themselves into a hole,

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Speaker 3: they've been digging unfortunately, how do they now find a

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Speaker 3: letter and get out of it?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, So I think it is that differentiation points. I

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Speaker 7: think they've got to make sure that they get the

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Speaker 7: basics right. But the important thing to remember with SPA

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Speaker 7: as the listed company, it's not the stores themselves. The

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Speaker 7: stores themselves are owned by franchisees and they can buy

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Speaker 7: from anyone. So actually the changes from a listed company perspective,

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Speaker 7: stuff like the voluntary severance program you're seeing letting people go.

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Speaker 7: They absolutely have to get their systems implementations right. I

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Speaker 7: mean their SAP or SAP implementation was truly awful. It's

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Speaker 7: going to go down as a Hall of Famer. It

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Speaker 7: ruined loyalty from their franchisees and kset end which is

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Speaker 7: a core region of strength for them. They've had to

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Speaker 7: get rid of some really tough international businesses where they

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Speaker 7: basically had to pay people to drag them away almost

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Speaker 7: or literally in the case of Poland. So it's very,

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Speaker 7: very tough. From a wholesale perspective. What they need to

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Speaker 7: do is they need to just you can't turn around

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Speaker 7: unless you've at least found the bottom.

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Speaker 4: So that's got to be step one. It's just find

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Speaker 4: the bottom.

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Speaker 7: Just stop shrinking, stop getting worse, you know, make the

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Speaker 7: tough decisions, which it seems they're now doing, new management

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Speaker 7: in place, and start to rebuild. Get the systems right,

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Speaker 7: get the loyalty right with your franchisees. These people know

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Speaker 7: how to run retailers. That's why these franchisees work. Supply

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Speaker 7: them properly, get them their stuff. You know, it's amazing

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Speaker 7: to me. It boggles my mind that for a SPA owner,

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Speaker 7: they would rather buy from someone else in many cases

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Speaker 7: than the SPA wholesaler. I mean, if that isn't an

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Speaker 7: indication that things are not going well, I don't know

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Speaker 7: what it is. It really is a game of insurance retail.

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Speaker 7: It's a game of getting the basics right, and that's

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Speaker 7: where they need to start.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to personalize it. But we

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Speaker 3: see the CEO going unexpectedly, we see various other people

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Speaker 3: going before that, I think particularly I mean I don't know,

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Speaker 3: but particularly after SAPN. Because one follows the other doesn't

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Speaker 3: necessarily mean one caused the other. I suppose do you

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Speaker 3: think they need to bring an outsider? I mean I

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Speaker 3: kind of keep looking at Pick and Pay and thinking

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Speaker 3: Sean Summers. I understand why you brought him back. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I enjoy talking to him. I don't know if it

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Speaker 3: was such a good move.

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Speaker 7: Look, it's an interesting question. I don't know Resa personally.

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Speaker 7: I haven't engaged with him yet. I hope too soon.

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Speaker 7: I don't think that necessarily today, I think that they've

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Speaker 7: gotten done in this sort of internal appointment. I mean

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Speaker 7: there's a lot of experience there. I think what they

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Speaker 7: just need is someone who's willing to do the hard yards.

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Speaker 7: It's someone who's tough. It's someone who can come in

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Speaker 7: and actually get it done. I mean, obviously it's a

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Speaker 7: disappointment for everyone that they've now had a young CEO

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Speaker 7: walking away under this guise of like, okay, well it's

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Speaker 7: all too difficult. I mean, fair enough, people's personal circumstances

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Speaker 7: are what they are.

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Speaker 4: I always think that, you.

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Speaker 7: Know, an entrepreneur can't do that, no matter how tough

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Speaker 7: my business is. I can't just say well that was hard, guys,

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Speaker 7: and then keep all the money I made in the

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Speaker 7: last few years and not have to give any.

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Speaker 4: Of it back and just walk away.

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Speaker 7: Such a life and corporate but they need someone who's

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Speaker 7: going to do the hard work, and I don't think

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Speaker 7: they need to parachute in someone external necessarily. I do

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Speaker 7: worry a bit about that new role they've created where

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Speaker 7: they're basically looking for I think they call it a

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Speaker 7: managing director of food and Liquor in South Africa. I

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Speaker 7: can't fully understand why they're creating another layer of management.

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Speaker 4: Why do they need to do that?

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Speaker 7: You know, they shouldn't be spending time on anything other

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Speaker 7: than SPA South Africa. Why do they need another person there?

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Speaker 7: That kind of thing worries me. That's going to be

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Speaker 7: what we need to see happen going forward is how

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Speaker 7: exactly will they play that. If you speak to guys

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Speaker 7: like Peter and albreaktas shop right, they are in the

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Speaker 7: detail all the time. And that's why retail CEOs can

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Speaker 7: get paid a fortune because they actually make a very

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Speaker 7: very big difference to the organization that they run. It's

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Speaker 7: not like a banking CEO who's like steering the ship

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Speaker 7: at a very high level obviously a big role, but

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Speaker 7: the retail CEOs tend to get their hands dirty at

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Speaker 7: store level.

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Speaker 3: Very interesting. Finance Ghost, thank you very much. Indeed ready

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Speaker 3: to appreciate the analyst and commentator known as the Finance

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Speaker 3: Ghost on The Money Show twenty seven minutes after six

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Speaker 3: the Money Show. The market is at Investic Treasury Sales

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Speaker 3: and Solutions martet's been a while, Welcome back, Let's pick

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Speaker 3: it up with SPA. I mean quite an announcement of

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Speaker 3: voluntary severance and a voluntary severance program.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, you guys suppose also they're cutting jobs, They're grappling

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Speaker 8: with the operational and governance challenges. It's adding free pressure

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Speaker 8: I mean on South Africa's second largest grosser that, as

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Speaker 8: you rightfully said a few minutes ago, saw the sudden

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Speaker 8: departure of the you know CEO last month, but already

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Speaker 8: the business was understrained from a costly step in implementation misstep.

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Speaker 8: There's been financial pressure and also tensions with their independent retailers.

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Speaker 8: So they have said that they're going to start you know,

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Speaker 8: this voluntary program as part of efforts to rain in

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Speaker 8: costs and also stabilize performance with art necessarily.

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Speaker 9: Can you get it?

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Speaker 3: Yes, we lost you there a second. A second, yeah.

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Speaker 8: So look, they're not going to really be specifying which

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Speaker 8: parts of the business are going to be affected and

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Speaker 8: how many jobs are being targeted. They have said that

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Speaker 8: this program is part of a broader reset designed to

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Speaker 8: align their cost base with their current trading conditions and

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Speaker 8: to ensure that they support themselves for future growth.

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Speaker 3: Old neutral I mean quite strong adjusted headline earnings. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: different things happening in different sectors, and of course Roger

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Speaker 3: Jardine coming in.

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Speaker 8: Exactly that was quite an interesting one. I mean, if

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Speaker 8: you think about Roger Jardine he was previously at first round.

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Speaker 8: But also just from a numbers perspective, Old mutuals, you know,

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Speaker 8: they reported sharply higher annual profits. I mean they said

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Speaker 8: that Surgeon pre tax profit was around forty seven percent

398
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Speaker 8: increased there, you know, the twenty twenty five results really

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Speaker 8: reflecting an improved operating performance in their life and savings

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Speaker 8: businesses and also old mutual insurance. For me, the interesting

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Speaker 8: part was the fact that they've declared a final dividend

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Speaker 8: of fifty six rand, you know, up about seven point percent. Also,

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Speaker 8: as they said, I mean Roger Jardine coming in from

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Speaker 8: the fifth of June, that is when the current chair

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Speaker 8: of a manual will be retiring as that AGM. And

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Speaker 8: then Roger Jardine he did coming in last year as

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Speaker 8: a nun exec director in September, and then he will

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Speaker 8: be assuming that role of chairperson from the fifth of June.

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Speaker 3: Stadio the education group, they've been going great guns obviously,

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Speaker 3: still very very aggressive, very optimistic about the future. They

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Speaker 3: seem to be growing very strongly, and their earnings were

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Speaker 3: up strongly too.

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Speaker 10: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Look, I mean the share price rallied about six percent today.

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Speaker 8: I mean, they reported about a twenty three percent increase

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Speaker 8: in headline earnings for twenty twenty five and also rising

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Speaker 8: the students numbers. I mean, in the first semester we

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Speaker 8: did see about a nine percent increase in student numbers,

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Speaker 8: and then in the second semester another seven percent. Odd

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Speaker 8: also for them, you know, they lefted their final dividend

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Speaker 8: about eighteen cents from about fifteen cents, and they're also

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Speaker 8: planning a share by back worth around seventy five million

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Speaker 8: rand going forward. Group has also said they're very optimistic

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Speaker 8: in terms of reaching about fifty six thousand students by

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Speaker 8: the end of this year. Also, you know then they're

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Speaker 8: looking at about eighty thousand students by the end of

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Speaker 8: twenty thirty.

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Speaker 3: Thanks very much indeed at Investic Treasury Sales and Solutions.

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Speaker 3: Good to chat again just on six thirty up Stephen

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Speaker 3: on seven.

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Speaker 5: Two seven oh two one seven two twenty two minutes

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Speaker 5: to seven.

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Speaker 3: Well, I thought that was very interesting by the person

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Speaker 3: known as the Finance Ghost about SPA, the idea that's

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Speaker 3: someone an outlet, a supermarket that's locally owned can just

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Speaker 3: do better than one that sort of owns centrally. I

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Speaker 3: hadn't thought of it like that in that way, I'd

438
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 3: love to hear your views. I mean, you're experience at

439
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 3: different supermarkets and why you go to the ones you do.

440
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 3: I have a shop right near me, and I have

441
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 3: a spa near me. The spa is much closer to me,

442
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 3: so my family and I spend a lot of time there.

443
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 3: There's a very big shop right quite close to just me.

444
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 3: Go there too, quite off, especially if it's on the

445
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 3: way to certain things. But just your sort of thought,

446
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 3: you know, where you feel more at home, where you

447
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 3: get more attention from the people who are working there,

448
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 3: that kind of thing, I know. Seven two seven oh

449
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 3: two one, seven oh two. I don't know if you

450
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 3: heard what qud in Montasha, the Minister of Mineral and

451
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 3: Petroleum Resources said yesterday. You're speaking at the big Oil

452
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 3: and Gas conference. It's underway in Cape tom You said

453
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 3: a couple of very interesting things. And when you consider

454
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 3: the situation we're in, we're very worried about high oil prices. Yes,

455
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,959
Speaker 3: we produce thirty to thirty five percent of our own needs,

456
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,400
Speaker 3: thank you, Sesel. There's another refinery that's working, but our

457
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 3: refining capacity is very low, partly because it hasn't made

458
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 3: commercial sense. Actually for some people to restart theirs or

459
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 3: to upgrade them to a newer fuel standards. So the

460
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 3: question I suppose, and I think Mantasha was kind of

461
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 3: provoking an argument. I think he's right to. I think

462
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 3: we need to have this debate. And I don't always

463
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 3: agree with him, as you know, but I think here

464
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 3: we need to have the debate. Look, he's keen, and

465
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,719
Speaker 3: I understand the argument. So oil prices are high, we

466
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 3: can't rely on where we get it from. At the moment,

467
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 3: there's a big global rush for it. Therefore, I think

468
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 3: it goes as arguments and I'm paraphrasing here, we need

469
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 3: to explore, here, we need to drill, we need to

470
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 3: have our own And he's confident there are resources, and

471
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 3: that's fine. That's the one way of looking at it.

472
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: The other would be to say go renewable and go

473
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 3: hard and go. Now, you know Chinese electric cars, they've

474
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 3: got overcapacity in their car market, bring them on. Eskim's

475
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 3: improving so many companies now. Every time we speak to

476
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,239
Speaker 3: people who run shopping centers or whatever, they have their

477
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 3: own renewable power because it's just cheaper. So there are all

478
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: sorts of ways to manage that. I don't know if

479
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 3: we're quite ready for that. I must also say we're

480
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 3: a big country, by which I mean geographically, and so

481
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 3: the distances make electric cars very tough. But and you've

482
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 3: heard from the person who runs the company that does

483
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 3: this willworths in most of their major cents is use

484
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 3: electrically powered trucks to deliver their goods. So you know

485
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 3: there are ways to do these things. Your thoughts so

486
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 3: seven two seven two one seven two nineteen minutes to seven.

487
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 9: Seven two with Stephen Cruts email him on Stephen at

488
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 9: seven oh two dot co DOTZI.

489
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 3: Sixteen minutes to seven the time. Well over the last

490
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 3: couple of weeks, you've heard the results from the major

491
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: banking groups that PwC putting all the numbers together and

492
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 3: combining the and calculating that the combined headline earnings of

493
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 3: our major banks grew but actually nine point four percent

494
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: between twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five. When you

495
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 3: consider how busy twenty twenty five was. Different things, different risks,

496
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 3: different banks obviously doing things slightly differently if you consider

497
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 3: the competition and all of the new entrants, well, the

498
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 3: whole industry nine point four percent. Yeah, not that francois

499
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 3: princela is the banking and capital markets leader at PwC

500
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: Africa A Franco g. Thanks so much for your time tonight. Okay,

501
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 3: as I say, busy, busy in twenty twenty five, what

502
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 3: were our banks doing right that on average allowed them

503
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 3: to grow so strongly?

504
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 11: Good evening, Steven, Yes, and thank you for having me. Yes. Certainly,

505
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 11: as you've mentioned, the South Africa banks navigated complex operating

506
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 11: to rain to deliver solid results. But as always, as

507
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 11: you mentioned, in terms of all the risk and busyness,

508
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 11: we need to look at these banking results with a

509
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 11: view of the operating environment. It took place, certainly from

510
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 11: a broader perspective big picture, we saw inflation, moderate interest

511
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 11: rate cuts and GDP growth for five consecutive quarters in

512
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 11: twenty twenty five. We also saw South Africa remove from

513
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 11: the Fative gray list and the solo credit rating upgraded,

514
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 11: and all of that translated into better host household and

515
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 11: business sentiments domestically and to recover in corporate fixed investment

516
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 11: and for those banks that you mentioned that have significant

517
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 11: operations in Africa, we also saw compelling growth dynamics, particularly

518
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 11: in the East, while West Africa and large economies like

519
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 11: Nigeria and Ghana navigated through currency and inflation volatility. Globally,

520
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 11: we saw the introduction of broad based US tariffs and

521
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 11: significant geopolitical turbulence that weighed glow down on investor sentiment.

522
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 11: So all of that really sets the scene for their

523
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 11: major banks results, and within that context they really delivered

524
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 11: strong performance. As you've mentioned, combined headline earnings nine point

525
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 11: four percent up on five year, which is significant, outpacing

526
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 11: domestic economic growth, which is great. If you look at

527
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 11: balance sheet as well, funding side deposits up eight point

528
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 11: four and lending site up five point eight, which just

529
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 11: gives the banks a much better opportunity to engage with

530
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 11: their clients. Good top line growth, good cost control as well.

531
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 11: You know, the bank aim for fifty percent and they

532
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 11: got there. So over all a very strong performance.

533
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 3: And Francoise, I mean, if you've got lower interest rates,

534
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: I mean it would stand to reason that's that quite

535
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 3: quickly there'll be more demand for credit. Households and companies

536
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: would look to borrow again, and that should mean more

537
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 3: business for banks.

538
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 11: Yes, certainly, Stephen, and I think we've seen that coming

539
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 11: through as I've mentioned on the funding side the posits

540
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 11: eight point four percent up, very strong performance, and like

541
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 11: I said, the lending side also well up. And on

542
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 11: the back of that good revenue momentum, net interest income

543
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 11: and non interest revenue resulting in up in resulting and

544
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 11: operating revenue up seven point two percent, positive jaws being

545
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 11: created through that process. I think that the very pleasing

546
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 11: bit is the return on equity, which we saw coming

547
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 11: through a twenty percent, admirable by any global standard as

548
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 11: we know, and well above the cost of equity. And

549
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 11: I think what is very important looking at the result

550
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 11: holistically is also the strong management in terms of credit quality,

551
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 11: with non performing loans essentially flat, so overall, in a

552
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 11: tough environment, a very very good performance by the banks.

553
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: There's been a big move to digitization in AI and

554
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 3: so there are plenty of digital banks now. They don't

555
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 3: have a physical presence sometimes some of the newer banks

556
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: old Mutual obviously does and I know in the past

557
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 3: that sort of was anecdotal evidence our banking sectors pretty

558
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: innovative compared to other markets. If I recall could be

559
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 3: wrong about this, you might know. I think we were

560
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: the first country to sort of have banks that would

561
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 3: actually SMSU every time something happened on your account. I

562
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 3: mean that was you know, science fiction compared to what

563
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 3: other countries we're doing. Isn't still the case. So our

564
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 3: bank's still quite innovative compared to banks in other places.

565
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 11: Yes, Steven, I think we've had the benefit of a

566
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 11: very innative banking environment and some of our banks have

567
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 11: been impermitting leading technology as of many years, you know,

568
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 11: and if you put your mind back a few years ago,

569
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 11: I think some of our local banks have won global

570
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 11: prices for innovation and we continue to see that, you know.

571
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 11: To say, South African major banks continue to complete intensely

572
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 11: on digital growth with client acquisition and transaction volumes continue

573
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 11: to increase, driven by mobile first platforms, you know. To

574
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 11: this end and to the point you rate, they continue

575
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 11: to spend and invest significantly in digital and refining their

576
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 11: core systems and specifically across all of three areas. We've

577
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 11: seen significant investment cloud compute capability, modernizing the payment and

578
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 11: unifying systems across business segments, and that will continue. You know,

579
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 11: we're in an era of AI digital and it's important

580
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 11: to continue to invest the innovat to be competitive.

581
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 3: So I mean, I mean one of the things that's

582
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,959
Speaker 3: happening is that we see these massive power projects, sustainable

583
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: power across the country. Those all need to be financed.

584
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 3: I mean, if I were a bank, those would be

585
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 3: very interesting opportunities. I mean the market may even be

586
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: saturated by now, and banks like to put all of

587
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 3: that kind of thing in their glossy brochures.

588
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 11: They do, they do, Stephen, and I think it's important

589
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 11: to confirm that. You know, obviously the creditor sessiments are

590
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 11: being done, it needs to be eligible and projects of

591
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 11: good returns. But the sustainability in gender continues to be

592
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 11: very important for all the banks and they continue to

593
00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 11: drive a range of implications. You know, in the have

594
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 11: continued to commit to ESG and those targets, and they

595
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 11: are aiming to balance good, good investment, good lending with

596
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 11: responsible behavior. So I think we will continue to see

597
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 11: significant investment and lending towards those industries going forward.

598
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: France, our Princeville, thanks so much for the thoughts. Really

599
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 3: appreciated the banking and Capital Markets leader at PwC Africa.

600
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 3: Banks overall as a sector in South Africa seem to

601
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 3: be doing quite well. Nine minutes to seven.

602
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: The Money Show Stephen Crutes is brought to you by

603
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: Absolve Corporate and Investment backing proud sponsors of GTR Africa

604
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, enabling trade flows for growth apps as

605
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: a registered FSP.

606
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 3: So last week you might have heard me making a

607
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: comment about Black economic empowerments and I said, as a journalist,

608
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: I find it quite frustrating. There are so many people

609
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 3: making the argument against B at the moment, including as

610
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: we know, the ambassador, But there are plenty of people

611
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 3: in South African business, plenty of people in the commentariat,

612
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 3: plenty of people in South Africa and outside South Africa

613
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 3: making that argument. And I shared that I've felt frustrated

614
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 3: that I hardly hear anyone making the argument for it,

615
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 3: and if I do, they're almost always from the A

616
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: n C or a sort of A and C aligned movement,

617
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 3: if you know what I mean. And I said, I

618
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: would like to hear from someone who defends it. The

619
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: risk for people who support THEE. And let me just

620
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 3: make this clear, and this is the point that I

621
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 3: was making that if only the A and C defends it,

622
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 3: and the A and C loses power or even just

623
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 3: loses control of say the DTIC and the Finance Ministry. Well,

624
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: BEE itself might go with it. That would be the

625
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 3: risk for people who support PE. When I'm pleased to

626
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 3: tell you someone who does support Black Economic Compartment heard me,

627
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 3: got in touch and said they were happy to be

628
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: the one to bring on the battle. How's it good

629
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: to chat again the chief executive of the Black Entrepreneurs Alliance.

630
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 3: You heard my comments last week? How do you feel

631
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 3: about it? Is there a strong defense for BEE?

632
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 6: Thank you so much, Stephen, and grievening to the money

633
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 6: showed listeners. Well, Stephen, so Africa's tender the critical economic crossroad,

634
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 6: and you'd appreciate like you actually said, And the debate

635
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 6: is no longer where that transformation is necessary, but how

636
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 6: it must be implemented to deliver real, inclusive and sustainable

637
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 6: economic justice. Now you made mention of the US ambassador

638
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 6: and troubled BEE the broad based black economic empowerment which

639
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 6: came nine years after so Africa got its freedom. The

640
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 6: historic impertative cannot be ignored, Stephen. Broad based black economic

641
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 6: empowerment is not merely a political preference. It is a

642
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 6: constitutional and moral necessity. Now routed in South Africa's history

643
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 6: and it's very, very very important for us to appreciate

644
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 6: that now there are pritheate economy systematically excluded the majority

645
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 6: of Black South Africans, which occurring statistics they from ninety

646
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 6: three percent of the population, meaning the Indians, the Colors,

647
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 6: and the Black South Africans. Now driple B speaks to ownership, management,

648
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 6: skills development and enterprise development, and you would know that

649
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 6: as given that to date a lot of black people

650
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 6: and black entapriners are still economic spectators. And this because

651
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 6: of broad based Black economic dempartment and the Preferential Procurement

652
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 6: Policy Framework Act not being adequately implemented. And that's why

653
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 6: the criticism is that no, let's get rid of it

654
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 6: because of the majority of people. I mean, if you

655
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 6: look at the white people just being seven percent, and

656
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 6: if you want to do something that's impactful, their numbers

657
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 6: are low, are low, and it's easy to really make

658
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 6: a difference over a small population, whereby if you look

659
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 6: at the number of black people and also economic exposure

660
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 6: to opportunities. I mean, if you look at given in

661
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 6: the finance industry, there's a lot of financial instruments that

662
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 6: the bank has to ensure that they can set people

663
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 6: up for success. One of the things that we believe

664
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 6: that broad based black economic compartment should stay, it's racial

665
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 6: profiling in the finance and and and and in the

666
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 6: finance and banking sector. The fact that black people meaning

667
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 6: Indian colors and and so African blacks are still racially profiled.

668
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 6: They don't get the same interest rates as their white counterparts.

669
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 6: And also they don't they're not exposed to financial instruments

670
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 6: that sets them back or other for failure.

671
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I must just point out that this discussion

672
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 3: has been had before around the racial profiling by lenders,

673
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 3: and they strongly deny that. We've had the argument within

674
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: the past. The criticism I refer ware that that often

675
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,439
Speaker 3: comes is particularly for the big deals, is that it's

676
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 3: only people who are politically connected or people who are

677
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 3: already empowered. Would you reform any of it?

678
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 6: It's important, and Steven, I'd like to agree with you,

679
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 6: and especially with the with the criticism from the Democratic Allianes.

680
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 6: It's it's it's very valid because we believe that DOUBLEPE

681
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 6: delivered partial gains but needs reform.

682
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: Not the removal.

683
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 6: And it is important to acknowledge both progress and shortcomings.

684
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 6: Now the achievements would be creation of a black medal

685
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 6: class and a transer of significant economic value. I mean

686
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 6: you're looking at about a see card two hundred and

687
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 6: eighty five billion rand in el years alone and that

688
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 6: has ended seemingly there's no movement in that regard and

689
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 6: also increased Black participation in business and procurement. Now the

690
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 6: challenge is the challenge is given the elite capture, tenderpreneurship

691
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 6: funcing and compliance manipulation, limited impact on mass unemployment, weak

692
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 6: enterprise development execution as the black entrepreneurial lines. We are

693
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 6: also advancing for for application of tender opportunities in their

694
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 6: private and public center because if you aggregate them, more

695
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 6: people will participate and the sting of having opportunities because

696
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 6: of your proximity to power will be read. And criticism

697
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 6: that B has benefited a few is valid, but it

698
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 6: leads to wrong conclusion. That's why I like you rightfully

699
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,919
Speaker 6: ask the solution is not abandoned PEE, but to deep

700
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 6: in it's broad based impact into a lot of people

701
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 6: in the township. I mean, you look at the howth

702
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 6: And Province, They've got the Howton Township economic development act,

703
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 6: but no people have seen value in it and people

704
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 6: that are in the townships, and we are also advancing

705
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 6: and say to the Minister of Trade and Industry to say,

706
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 6: you must also do a national township and rural economic

707
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 6: development so that when you start enterprises like you said

708
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 6: the twinlimpor person example, let's see more black people benefiting

709
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 6: in their value chain, so that that's what we're asking for.

710
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: Well, Philwert, one of the things I find so interesting

711
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 3: about it, and sort of builds on the original point

712
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,959
Speaker 3: that started this conversation, is that so many people who

713
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 3: I thought might defend it or so quiet. I mean,

714
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 3: I would have thought if it is as important as

715
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 3: you say it is, you would see you know, everyone

716
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 3: from sacking Sacking Matsoma all the way through to someone

717
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: who's benefit from it in a small way at a

718
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 3: bank out on the streets defending it.

719
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 6: I mean, where are they, steven something that's said about us.

720
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 6: Black people will like to defend our own corners so

721
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 6: that we can go to bed on a full stomach.

722
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 6: But economic stability depends on inclusive growth. Without meaningful economic inclusion,

723
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 6: inequality fuel social unrest and employment. Preas and stability, investment

724
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 6: confidence declines. Even critics acknowledge that post A party policies

725
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 6: might be were morally and strategically necessary to sustain economic stability.

726
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 6: But now it seems like people not going out to

727
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 6: the streets to really vent their frustration about being economic spectators.

728
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 6: They're just protecting their brains to say the fact that

729
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 6: I'm employed. Let me protect my job. I don't want

730
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 6: to make noise because I've disturbed the status called. I mean,

731
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 6: even Patris Muti himself he benefited through nough Cook and

732
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 6: also even San Diele Zoom through their Black Business Council.

733
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 6: They yes, they might someone might say, yes, they are

734
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 6: making nuse, But for us as people in on the ground,

735
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,919
Speaker 6: we're not seeing that noise. And also aggregation of tender

736
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 6: opportunities are through Espena in the worgs. You look at

737
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 6: the Loto. If the loto was aggregated to stay okay, yes,

738
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 6: not one company must win the lotto, but you're aggregated

739
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 6: in all the provinces, like all these gambling companies that

740
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 6: are assuming you say, in every province there's a black

741
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 6: entrepreneurs that's a consortium that are running the lotto in

742
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 6: that province, wouldn't be so inclusive. Growth inclusive, growth exposure

743
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 6: and people growing their balance sheet to eventually own their economy.

744
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 3: Monachin, Thanks really appreciate you coming on and giving us

745
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: the other side. The chief executive of the Black Entrepreneurs Alliance,

746
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 3: and let me just say, I'm moys. I do and

747
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 3: this is just a personal note and you can you

748
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 3: can argue with me if you like. That's fine. It's

749
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 3: get a little nervous when one person sort of says,

750
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 3: and I don't mean to argue with refillware in any way.

751
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 3: You know, we as this group or that group are

752
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 3: like this. I don't think you can rarely say that.

753
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 3: I think you go down very difficult road there. Anyway,

754
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 3: I'd love to hear from you on all of this.

755
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 9: No.

756
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 3: Seven two seven two one seven o'clock.

757
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

758
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 2: o two. Let's walk little.

759
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Crutius is brought to you

760
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: by Absent Corporate and Investment Banking, proud sponsors of GTR

761
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 3: Africa twenty twenty six. Enabling Trade Flows for Growth is

762
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 3: registered FSP. Good Evening eight minutes after seven Well Discovery

763
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 3: Life explaining today some of the payments they've made and

764
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 3: some really interesting technology for the early detection of things

765
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 3: like cancer. I'm sure you in some way your life

766
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 3: has been touched by that disease, if not used someone

767
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 3: you know as someone in your family. I really keen

768
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: to talk about that, talk about the screening of that.

769
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: Gareth Friedland is the deputy CEO of Discovery Life. We'll

770
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 3: hear from him in a moment. Rotendo and Dingwi excuse me,

771
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 3: Professor and Dingwi will be here in a few moments.

772
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 3: I'm just turning around. He's not in the office yet,

773
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 3: but I'm sure he'll be on his way or we'll

774
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 3: speak to him on Zoom. In fact, he always has

775
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 3: something to say about what's happening in our consumers and

776
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 3: then building your own portfolio for investments. Warren Ingram focusing

777
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 3: on that tonight.

778
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 7: What's up, Stephen.

779
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 4: Only seventy seven oh two one seven o two.

780
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 3: I asked earlier about your shopping experience. Why do you

781
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 3: go to certain supermarket chains and not others?

782
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 10: Hello, Graving Stevin just wanted to comment on pick and

783
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 10: pay clothing. You know this at a time ithn Wll,

784
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 10: I was just waiting for my wife doing Grosseries and

785
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 10: Checkers and that then I decided to just you know,

786
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 10: like walking pick and pay clothing to see the type

787
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 10: of merchandise. To be honest with you, I was actually impressed,

788
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 10: you know, and with the quality and the prices of

789
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 10: the merchandise. They have been there, and I've actually become

790
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 10: one of their customers, you know, I've been there twice

791
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 10: three times already. I'm actually quite happy we've put in

792
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 10: their bags. Hello.

793
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,919
Speaker 12: Just regarding where you feel comfortable in whichever shop, whether

794
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 12: it's a spot, Checkers, we can play whatever you Just

795
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 12: to comment on Checkers sixty sixty, I just always get

796
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 12: a little bit frustrated in their shop because the sixty

797
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 12: sixty people are pushing trolley's up and down and almost

798
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 12: bumping out the way. They seem to get priority everywhere

799
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 12: within the shop, and I just feel that Checkers should

800
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 12: be regarding the in shopping or in shop customers with

801
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 12: a little bit more priority, even though I understand that

802
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 12: the sixty sixty people have got an obligation, but I

803
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 12: feel that it's to the detriment of the shop is

804
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 12: inside the shop, which makes me hesitant to go to

805
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 12: that shop.

806
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 3: Thanks John Chairs, Thanks so much. For that, such thoughtful

807
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,479
Speaker 3: comments actually and so interesting. I mean, I know people

808
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 3: who've had experiences of buying clothes in that shop and

809
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 3: have said similar things. I'm sure everyone has their own view.

810
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 3: And then yeah, I mean, also, you know you don't

811
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 3: want to be bumped around. I'm always slightly surprised that

812
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 3: even in Zoupermarket, and I realized there might be a

813
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 3: storage issue that Checkers sixty shop. The sixty sixty shoppers

814
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,919
Speaker 3: are kind of in the same space. You'd think maybe

815
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 3: it would sort of they would have a kind of

816
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 3: most likely items or something, and those would be kept

817
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 3: somewhere else for very quick dispatch. It would be actually

818
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 3: more efficient for the delivery drivers to keep certain often

819
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 3: delivered items slightly separate from everything else. On the other hand,

820
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: the shops that they have, I'm sure weren't designed for that.

821
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 3: I mean, they'll probably come some very thoughtful comments there.

822
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 3: Thank you. Eleven minutes after seven seven or.

823
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:53,479
Speaker 13: Two, Stephen is gone x at at Stephen Discovery Life,

824
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 13: saying today they paid out eleven and a half billion

825
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 13: round of clients last year, but doing quite a lot

826
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 13: for the early detection of diseases.

827
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: New claim start shows AIS helping doctors detect cancer and

828
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: other serious problems a lot earlier. Obviously that helps them

829
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 3: in the longer run, reduces costs, but more importantly, we'll

830
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 3: keep you alive. Gareth Friedland is the deputy CEO of

831
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 3: Discovery Life Garres good evening you paid out. I think

832
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 3: it was nearly two billion round for severet illness benefits

833
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 3: and nearly another billion round for capital disability benefits. How

834
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 3: important is that kind of product, sort of ensuring for

835
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 3: events that happened while you are still alive. How important

836
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 3: does that becoming you for your industry?

837
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 14: Yeah, that's right, Stephen, And you know, I think we've

838
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 14: definitely seen that trending upwards, certainly in our claims date

839
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 14: over the years. You know, you one tend to think

840
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 14: of life insurance it's just kind of payout when you die.

841
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 14: We paid three point one billion to life cover clients,

842
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 14: and actually more than that, as you mentioned, through things

843
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 14: like severe illness, income protection, disability parts. So about fifty

844
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 14: two percent of our risk benefits went to clients are

845
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 14: still alive for events that happened to them during their lifetime.

846
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 14: And that is, you know, obviously becoming more and more

847
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 14: important as people live longer and are exposed to different

848
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 14: events throughout the different phases of their life.

849
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously we sort of when we think of

850
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 3: events like this, we tend to think of cancer. There

851
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 3: are others, of course, and if you detected much earlier,

852
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 3: you can treat it. And what I presume you're trying

853
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 3: to do, Gareth, is screening it at quite a mass

854
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 3: scale in a way that would detect it much earlier.

855
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: How do you go about doing that?

856
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 14: Yeah, that's arts, Stephen, and it's broader than just cancer.

857
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 14: You're right that cancer is one of the most prevalent

858
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 14: categories of disease and obviously something we're really focused on

859
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 14: trying to detect earlier and treat better.

860
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 4: But what we've developed in the group.

861
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 14: Is what we call our Personal Lives Health Pathways, and

862
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 14: that really kind of synthesizes all the data around the

863
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 14: client and their propensities, their health data, their records, and

864
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 14: kind of works out based on each individual client's health profile,

865
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 14: what is the next best action that they should take

866
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 14: for their health and then we throw incentives at them

867
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 14: to do that. And through that program, we had eighteen

868
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 14: thousand clients go for screenings across the different types of

869
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 14: screenings last year, and actually forty seven of those clients

870
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 14: ended up in severe illness claims, thirty two of which

871
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 14: were actually early stage cancer claims. So if you think

872
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 14: about that, it's an unbelievably powerful capability. We've got an

873
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 14: AI mechanism that's picking out a client telling them we've

874
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 14: worked out you need to go for this cancer screening,

875
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 14: and they've actually picked up and detected cancer early and

876
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 14: saved the life with the kind of AI insight there.

877
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: I mean, some people are quite nervous to be screened

878
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 3: and they want your product, and I'm sure after that,

879
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 3: once you have in your clutches, you encourage them gently

880
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 3: nudge them down the road for a screening. My serious

881
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 3: point is that that more people are probably being screened

882
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 3: as a result of your product.

883
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 14: Absolutely, and that's a great thing, you know. So we

884
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 14: are incentivizing clients to be screened, and that does pick

885
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,839
Speaker 14: up the cancers earlier. The prognoses are much better if

886
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 14: you can treat. You know, if you can detect earlier

887
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 14: and start treatment earlier, then obviously we've got a product

888
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 14: that then lives with them for life. You know, it's

889
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 14: get yourself coupvered, go for the screenings, you'll get payouts

890
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 14: and then multiple payouts, as we've also started to see

891
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 14: become more and more prevalent in the data.

892
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, isn't that also a reflection if you

893
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 3: get one serious thing, you might well get another, often

894
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 3: as a complication and as people you know, you know,

895
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 3: unfortunately things can sort of pile up at a certain

896
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 3: point and that must be i mean quite expensive for you,

897
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 3: very important that the patient, the person, your client, whoever,

898
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 3: is being looked after in those cases.

899
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 4: Yeah.

900
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

901
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 14: It talks to one of the key outcomes of the

902
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 14: statistics that we released today, which is around multiple claims,

903
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 14: multiple health events. You know, prior to last year, four

904
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 14: percent of our book had claimed under the Severe Illness Benefit.

905
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 14: That four percent accounted for twenty two percent of our

906
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 14: claims last year. So you can see once you've had

907
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 14: a claim, your probability of claiming again, as you mentioned,

908
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 14: and particularly for related conditions goes up sixfold, six hundred

909
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 14: percent in the next year. So that's starting to play

910
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 14: out incredibly, you know, strongly in our stats. And while

911
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 14: you're right it might result in more and more claims

912
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 14: for us, it also results if you can pick them

913
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 14: up earlier in clients living longer, and that's obviously better

914
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 14: for them and better for us as a life insured

915
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 14: in the long run.

916
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 3: I mean, one of the things that is kind of

917
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 3: the modus operandi of the Discovery Group is to encourage

918
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 3: people to be healthier. So you know, cappatinos for exercising.

919
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 3: Exercising fine, but a cappuccino. Seriously, is there a lot

920
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 3: of uptaking that. I mean, one of the ways you

921
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 3: do is is you sort of pay back some of

922
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 3: the premium if they do things that make themselves healthier.

923
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 14: Yeah, that's right. We call it our shared Value insurance

924
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 14: model steven, and it's really become incredibly powerful and refined

925
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 14: over the years.

926
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: We track it obsessively.

927
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 14: So last year we found that our most engaged clients

928
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 14: in the Vitality program were actually demonstrating a seventy three

929
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 14: percent lower mortality rate than the rest of the book

930
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 14: would likewise, with morbidity forty five percent lower.

931
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 9: So you're seeing.

932
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 14: Genuine changes in those clients' longevity, in their morbidity and

933
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 14: mortality rates, and that creates money in the system as

934
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 14: a life insurer, and we then pass that money back

935
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 14: to the clients through the payback benefits, we shared value

936
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 14: benefits and we paid actually two point four billion round

937
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 14: last year alone to clients just for being healthy. That

938
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 14: really is a kind of paradigm shift in the world

939
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 14: of life insurance.

940
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 3: Gareth Friedland, thanks so much, WDCO of Discovery Life. It's

941
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 3: just interesting to see how the business is changing and

942
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 3: what's kind of working your experiences. Please oh seven two

943
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 3: seven O two one seven oh two.

944
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,240
Speaker 13: Is on the Money Shows six to eight pm.

945
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 3: There was a report on I think it was from

946
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: twenty four today that the Competition Commission was in Parliament

947
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 3: yesterday and they said they're looking at probing the decision

948
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 3: by Canolplus to shut down Show Max. And from what

949
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 3: I understand, what they're saying is that when Connelplus was

950
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 3: given permission to merge to buy the STV, they made

951
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 3: certain they gave certain undertakings. People wouldn't be people wouldn't

952
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 3: be retrenched, they wouldn't be wholesale changes, that kind of thing,

953
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 3: And I understand that. I have to say though I

954
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 3: don't always disagree with the Competition Commission, just sometimes, but

955
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: if I were running a business and there was a

956
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 3: section that had just no business case and everything I've

957
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 3: read about Troe Mac says there's no business case. I mean,

958
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, probably like you. I'm a long

959
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 3: time subscriber of it, but I just there's no business case.

960
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 3: It's been losing money and ever fist and probably worse

961
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 3: than that. And now you're being told, well, actually maybe

962
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 3: you won't be able to shut it down. Yeah, I

963
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 3: probably wouldn't take that line down. I'll probably pretty annoyed. Actually,

964
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 3: if that happened, I realized there could be consequences. Sure

965
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 3: I can. Plus has been very clear no jobs will

966
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 3: be lost, and that's probably to comply with the undertakings

967
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 3: they gave to the Competition Commission. It scenes on the

968
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 3: letter of the law. But I don't know what the

969
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 3: other case of the Competition Commission would be here. So

970
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 3: I'm all for competition. I'm all for a strong competition

971
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 3: commission to do this kind of thing. But as I say,

972
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 3: if I were a business owner and there's no business

973
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 3: case to keep this thing going and it's losing as

974
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 3: much money as show maxes, now someone comes and says, actually,

975
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 3: I don't think you can shut it. We won't let you. Well,

976
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 3: I'll be pretty frustrated at that look, it may not happen.

977
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 3: They may they may sort of do a preliminary investigation.

978
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 3: Think that's that. But I just thought I wouldn't get

979
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 3: I wouldn't get two and two, you know, whole divisions

980
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 3: being closed because of no business sense if I were

981
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 3: the competition commissioned.

982
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 15: The Money Show Africa Business Focus professor Orttendo and Dinghek Pounding,

983
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 15: Director a Triy of Africa advisory author of the book

984
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 15: Rumble in the Jungle reloaded joining us now Houzard rottend.

985
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 3: Or A week's been a long term Yeah, good good.

986
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 3: The Middle East conflict, I mean, so many things. We've

987
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 3: been talking about the impact particularly on oil prices, but

988
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 3: also having an impact here Kenyan meet exporters.

989
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 9: And so another element obviously just showing the the public

990
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 9: facture of the Middle East. Kenya exports about two point

991
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 9: three million US dollars of beef across to the Middle East,

992
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 9: well in terms of meat and the related products. From

993
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 9: that perspective, that's two point three million on a weekly

994
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 9: basic descend across to the Middle East. It converts for

995
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 9: a US two hundred thousand electric tons a day. It's

996
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 9: dropped significantly, I think at the moment. Still they're exporting

997
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 9: from that twent thousand metric two hundred metric terms, they're

998
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 9: exporting about fifty thousand ks so the significant drop and

999
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 9: obviously the price of logistics and transfer is quite high.

1000
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 9: Fifty percent of the exports from Kia to the Middle

1001
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 9: East go to Dubai, so Abu Dhabi and Dubai I

1002
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 9: still think a significant amount, but a man Quite and

1003
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 9: Bahrain are also leak in. And it's all because of

1004
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 9: the dynamics of the Middle East student and the dramification

1005
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 9: around it. So you can imagine from an ecosystem cultural

1006
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 9: perspective the impacts of that. And also I think the

1007
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 9: unit price Peking has moved from about in terms of

1008
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 9: logistical moves from a one dollar fifty to about three

1009
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 9: dollars fifty per units, so it's more than double. So

1010
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 9: all the old Stephen the ramifications of the conflict in

1011
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,280
Speaker 9: the Middle East, it's not just affecting the oil prices,

1012
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 9: but there it also ecosystem like agriculture from an Africa perspective.

1013
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 3: No sure, I mean there's so many different impacts on this.

1014
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 3: And then in Nigeria, the Angote refinery they're supporting oil

1015
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 3: there I mean we have cecil. Yeah, thank goodness, we

1016
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 3: want to buy oil. We do buy oil from Nigeria

1017
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 3: as well.

1018
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 9: Yeah so, And I think this is more of the

1019
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 9: positive side again because obviously oil Nigeria is the net

1020
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 9: important of oil, even though the manufacturingy will produced the

1021
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,399
Speaker 9: could oil and export as well. But another positive side

1022
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 9: in this perspective, Steven Dangote built a refinery member. He

1023
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 9: went to a bit of an affield task with the

1024
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 9: local competitive with the local rink into the frameworks. But

1025
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 9: it's actually saving them now because they produce about six

1026
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 9: hundred and fifty thousand barrels of good oil per day.

1027
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 9: They've been able to slice their plicing for diesel and

1028
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 9: gasoline by a nine percent to accommodate the shortage that's

1029
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 9: coming from overseas. So this is just a typical example

1030
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 9: speeling that when Africa sets itself for industrialization, when we

1031
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 9: produce from the extractors and the raw materials, we've got

1032
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 9: the continent and put infrastructure around that when the rainy

1033
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 9: day comes, it does help us. And in the case

1034
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 9: of Nigeria, it's helping them to certain extent. They still

1035
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 9: have to fight the regulars to frameworks that are costing

1036
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 9: them a bit more in their arguments like guys, we

1037
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 9: should actually have be cheaper. But ultimately the positive stotting

1038
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 9: in the bleach storm of the Middle Eastern ramifications in

1039
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 9: terms of Nigeria producing, it's on oil to supply to

1040
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 9: supply it with the quantinents.

1041
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 3: I mean, I suppose the other thing is if you're

1042
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 3: the Dangote refinery, this is your moment really get market chair.

1043
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're able to sort of seal it

1044
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,439
Speaker 3: as sale it as you know, we saved the nation.

1045
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 3: I mean, this is really the moment, especially when there

1046
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 3: just isn't supplies from other people.

1047
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 9: They are, but you can only produce and manufacturers even

1048
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 9: based on the infrastructure of the capacity that you have,

1049
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 9: so you are you're limited to that perspective. But definitely

1050
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 9: it's a good problem to have in terms of there's

1051
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 9: a huge demand. I think it also just highlights just

1052
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 9: think that region as well as the world. There's other

1053
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 9: oil creed manufacturing players that I'm talking about. Countries like

1054
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 9: Angola also got infrastructure again, you know, you know there's

1055
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 9: that African proverb seeing that you do not fetching the

1056
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 9: cow at the marketplaces on the day of the opportunity.

1057
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 9: If you haven't set up in infrastructure that is also properly,

1058
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 9: you obviously want benefit. So fortunately for Nigers, in the

1059
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 9: right place, they could have put in more infrastructure, but

1060
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 9: unfortunately they're still building. But still in the bigger picture

1061
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 9: of things, it's a good place to do.

1062
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 3: In the RUNDI, there's this big minerals deal. It sort

1063
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 3: of involves AI and Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos.

1064
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 9: So the company is called Coboard Steven And in previous

1065
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 9: highlights I talked about how Coboard, which is backed by

1066
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 9: both Bill Gates and Jeff Diesels, is an II based

1067
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 9: company that allows you to determine where the deposits of

1068
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 9: minerals uh. And they struck a deal with the GFC

1069
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 9: brilliant dollar deal to be to work with the DFC

1070
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 9: in terms of identifying the deposits of kids a vision

1071
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,439
Speaker 9: minerals underderground, so your cobot, your your coppers, et cetera,

1072
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 9: et cetera. They struck a similar BRUNDI so it's a

1073
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 9: three year deal. The the upside of bisits obviously the

1074
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 9: ideas appout to be a woman identify minerals underground and

1075
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 9: obviously the benefits Brundi as well as them as a

1076
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 9: technology company. The risk for Burundi's obviously they are the

1077
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 9: certain ownership of where those mets are from a geomephic perspective.

1078
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 9: So hopefully the negotiations with regard to that deal is

1079
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 9: a win win because on one side it looks like

1080
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 9: a great opportunity, but in the past Africa has never

1081
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 9: really come out of the positive side in terms of

1082
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 9: such certain de deal. So let's see how it goes.

1083
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 9: The deal is a lotly for two years and thereafter

1084
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 9: to be red and it's technology extractives, minerals, government policy

1085
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 9: or coming together under one belt. So it's something close

1086
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 9: to watch and see what the outcomes are.

1087
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 3: There's been a lot of a big look at sort

1088
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 3: of the latest agg tech startups in Africa that have

1089
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 3: raised quite a lot of money. I mean that must

1090
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 3: give some optimism for the future.

1091
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 9: Act texting. As we know, the agricultural sector contributes over

1092
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 9: sixty percent of Africa's employment as well as over sixty

1093
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 9: percent of the audible world. Autible land in the world

1094
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 9: is in Africa from agricultures. Fire's the muge opportunity from

1095
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 9: twenty sixteen, twenty twenty five, the business inside that broughtch

1096
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 9: Diati and analysis and they highlighted that over fifteen millius

1097
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 9: dollars has been invested in terms of the Arctic market

1098
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 9: and that opportunity continue to grow from a yearlier basis.

1099
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 9: It's dropped slightly over the past few years, but still

1100
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 9: the significant growth the key sort of losing players. The

1101
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 9: top five photics or Arctic companies that are attractive investment

1102
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 9: Steven are Twigger Foods which is in China, Watsoko which

1103
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 9: is in Terinia, next Able Egypt, Grow International, Apollo in Nigeria.

1104
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 9: I think close to the in terms of the bigger

1105
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 9: size of the investment, close to over half a billion

1106
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 9: US dollars, So something for Africa that don't want to

1107
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 9: technology but also produces food and creates employment, which is

1108
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 9: all positive.

1109
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 3: And then France finally returning it. It's called a talking

1110
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 3: drum and it was looted from Cott Devoir, Gostia long

1111
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 3: time ago.

1112
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 9: It's called the name of the drum is called gd

1113
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 9: A Yoka and the size even of this drum is

1114
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 9: four hundred and thirty kilo drums and it's four meters long.

1115
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 9: It was used to communicate celebration day from even danger

1116
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 9: and obviously during the colonial periods, people used to use

1117
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 9: it to communicate against the Frants people that was the

1118
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 9: colonial power at the time. But so it was confiscated

1119
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 9: and taking all the way to France in the Jacqueshirak

1120
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 9: Museum one hundred years ago. It's been brought back. So

1121
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 9: a big celebration that has happened in Court Divoi to

1122
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 9: celebrate it, and President mcclan and TOAA are facilitated for this.

1123
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 9: But still if you think about the stadium, a big

1124
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 9: drug that's half the time and four meters long. It's

1125
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 9: finally coming home to this. Obviously I can imagine at

1126
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 9: that time how the airport that was required to transport

1127
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 9: this affect all across the world. But coming back again,

1128
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:47,439
Speaker 9: but oh no, from a cultural perspective, rightly and quite

1129
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 9: excited for the people of Court Divois is to celebrate

1130
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 9: their culture coming back.

1131
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 3: From Indeed, Professor Ortendo and degree thanks so much, really

1132
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 3: appreciate it. And of course the founder of Tribe Africa

1133
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 3: Advisory twenty eight minutes after seven for the Money.

1134
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: Show Personal Finance with Warren Ingram.

1135
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 3: Twenty four minutes now to eight the time, as you know,

1136
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 3: Warren Ingram instead of had financial planner at Galileo Capital.

1137
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 3: How's it Warren? So tonight, if we're talking about how

1138
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 3: you build your investment portfolio, and I have to say,

1139
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 3: at first kind of thought site blash, it sounds to

1140
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 3: me like quite a complicated thing to do, is it?

1141
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 16: If it was complicated, I wouldn't be able to do it.

1142
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 16: So no, the answer is, we can make it hugely complex,

1143
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 16: but we can also all make it very simple and

1144
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 16: ask ourselves a few questions and cut out a whole

1145
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 16: lot of noise and actually, you know, get it done

1146
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 16: reasonably easily.

1147
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 3: Okay. So I mean we first need I suppose you know,

1148
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 3: we started first principles here. We need to know why

1149
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 3: we're doing it. And again my first thought would be

1150
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 3: to make money. You need to be a bit more

1151
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 3: refined than that.

1152
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 2: They sounds like a teenager, So we do.

1153
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 16: I mean, I think when we set a goal for

1154
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 16: our money, the goal determines so many other things and

1155
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 16: it becomes the original domino that that that takes you

1156
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 16: in a direction or stops you going.

1157
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 2: In a direction. And so you know, let's take a

1158
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 2: couple of examples.

1159
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 16: One if you said, well, I'm planning to buy a

1160
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 16: home in five years time, then then we know a

1161
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 16: few things about that goal.

1162
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 2: One, it's it's a definite period of time, it's five years.

1163
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 16: Two, you need to save you know, a certain amount

1164
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 16: of money by that time, So you can't you can't

1165
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 16: allow allow for wild outcomes. You can't allow, for example,

1166
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 16: where you know you were aiming for let's say it's

1167
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 16: a million rand and and you know you choose an

1168
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 16: investment that could deliver you two million or half a million,

1169
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 16: you've got a finite period of time and a specific call.

1170
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 16: The alternative would be that I'm saving for my retirement

1171
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 16: in twenty years time. Well, then you can allow for

1172
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 16: a lot more variability in your returns in the short term.

1173
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 16: In other words, you can choose an investment that's mostly

1174
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 16: in the stock market, and you know, if it goes

1175
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 16: crazy like it is at the moment, then that doesn't

1176
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 16: matter too much because you've still got another nineteen and

1177
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 16: a half years to go. So your goal is absolutely

1178
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 16: critical because that's the thing that determines how long you've

1179
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 16: got to invest and from there once you know, and

1180
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 16: the jargon for that is your time horizon. So once

1181
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 16: you know your time horizon, you can start to make

1182
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 16: some very sensible decisions, but also ignore many of the

1183
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 16: other options which become irrelevant to you.

1184
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 3: So is there a kind of guiding line or a

1185
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 3: rule of thumb or something that would sort of help

1186
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 3: you once you've worked out how long you're going to

1187
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 3: be investing for, once you've worked out your time horizon.

1188
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think you know, sometimes the mistake people make

1189
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 16: is they've got a very short time horizon, and in

1190
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 16: other words, they're saving for the next year or one

1191
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 16: or two or three years, and I think three years

1192
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 16: for me is short short term. And when you've got

1193
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 16: that very short time horizon, you can't invest in growth assets.

1194
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 16: And typically growth assets would be the stock market, property

1195
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 16: investments and the like, because you need to give those

1196
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 16: a long period of time to deliver the growth that

1197
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 16: you're expecting, but equally to ride that roller coaster of

1198
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 16: the of the markets where your investments will go up

1199
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 16: and down and do it repeatedly over a period of time.

1200
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 16: So the longer your time horizon, and I think you know,

1201
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 16: long term starts kind of maybe around seven years and longer,

1202
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 16: then you can invest mostly in growth assets. But when

1203
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 16: your time horizon is very short, then you're looking at

1204
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 16: things like money market funds, income funds and the like.

1205
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 16: So it's a very low risk, yes, low return, but

1206
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 16: it gives you a lot more certainty, which is what

1207
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 16: you need when you've got such a short time horizon.

1208
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 3: Okay, So this, I suppose is about your risk tolerance,

1209
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 3: right and about how you feel when markets are doing

1210
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 3: what they're doing right now.

1211
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, pointless.

1212
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 16: You know, if you and I were chatting and you

1213
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 16: said to me, well, this goal is for twenty years time,

1214
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 16: and I said to you, okay, that's great, Stephen, I'm

1215
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 16: going to invest one hundred percent of your money in

1216
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 16: the local stock market and the global stock markets.

1217
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, planning wise, that's not a bad

1218
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 2: thing to do.

1219
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 16: But I need to ask you to follow up question,

1220
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 16: which is, how are you going to behave when the

1221
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 16: markets do fall apart? Because they're going to do it

1222
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 16: many times over twenty years. And if you are tempted

1223
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 16: or maybe even driven to sell the first time you

1224
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 16: see your investment go down by ten or fifteen percent,

1225
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 16: then you know, a pure stock market investment is the

1226
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 16: worst possible thing we can do. For you, because you're

1227
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 16: going to be in a position where you're going to sell,

1228
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 16: probably at the bottom of the market. And so risk

1229
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 16: tolerance is key when making investment decisions. If you know

1230
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 16: your time horizon, then you have to be pretty honest

1231
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 16: with yourself to say, I would like to be brave,

1232
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 16: and I'd like to be rational and calm and all

1233
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 16: of those things.

1234
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 2: But what I know is I can't. I become panicky.

1235
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 16: I look at my statements or my profile all the time,

1236
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 16: and I may make short term decisions, usually to my detriment.

1237
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 16: And if that's the case, then you start to lower

1238
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 16: your exposure to those growth assets because those are the

1239
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 16: ones that give you the roller coaster ride. And and

1240
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,479
Speaker 16: so you start to say, well, I need to bulk

1241
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 16: up things like cash and bonds, and maybe they're not

1242
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 16: the best growth assets, but then they're gonna they're gonna

1243
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 16: mute that stock, that stock market roller coaster. So so

1244
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 16: your risk tolerance is really key, and unfortunately it is

1245
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 16: an emotional thing. It is a psychological thing. So it's

1246
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 16: not like a point scoring system where you can say, well,

1247
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 16: you know, I'm a sophisticated investor, I know I'm not

1248
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 16: emotion we're not robots and it's a hard wired response.

1249
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 16: So I think that you know, this is probably where

1250
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 16: a lot of the time people derail themselves with this

1251
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 16: and not not understanding their own tolerances. So I think

1252
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 16: your psychological tolerance for risk is important.

1253
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 2: And then.

1254
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 16: Maybe one that doesn't get spoken about so much, but

1255
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 16: your financial ability to deal with losses. So you know,

1256
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 16: if you've got a twenty year time arizon and you

1257
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 16: think everything's fine, but actually you've got no ability financially

1258
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 16: to deal with a risk. Something goes wrong in life

1259
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 16: and you need to draw on your investments and suddenly

1260
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:41,919
Speaker 16: they're down twenty or thirty percent, it means you didn't

1261
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 16: have the capacity to the financial capacity to deal with

1262
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 16: the risk.

1263
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 2: So risk tolerance is two things.

1264
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 16: It's your psychological tolerance and then also your financial capacity

1265
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 16: to deal with those.

1266
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 3: Risks, your emotional sort of tolerance your you know, that's

1267
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 3: quite a difficult thing to know about yourself. You could

1268
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 3: probably sit down and quite sort of objectively work out

1269
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:07,479
Speaker 3: your financial capacity, but your emotional tolerance, you're really asking

1270
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 3: a question about yourself.

1271
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 16: Yeah, and you know it is very difficult. I mean,

1272
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 16: there's you know, there's an entire field of behavioral science

1273
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 16: around this, and it's it's where investing goes from being

1274
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 16: a science to an art because you have to make

1275
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 16: a judgment call about yourself. You have to exercise something

1276
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 16: you know that's not scientific to say, well, you know,

1277
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:33,880
Speaker 16: I know myself and when I lose money in the

1278
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 16: short term, I do get really angry and depressed and jittery, jumpy.

1279
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,799
Speaker 16: And if that's the case, then you need to reduce

1280
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 16: your your your exposure to risky assets, which are unfortunately

1281
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 16: also the growth assets. So I think the important thing here, though,

1282
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 16: is it's not all or nothing. It's not that you say, well,

1283
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 16: I've got very little tolerance for risk, therefore I can

1284
01:08:56,360 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 16: never take risk. What happens now is you move yourself

1285
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:03,560
Speaker 16: from the spectrum of being one hundred percent invested in

1286
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:07,800
Speaker 16: shares to potentially maybe only fifty percent because you then

1287
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 16: know that, well, you've got a solid chunk of your

1288
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 16: money that's in very low risk, very conservative investments that

1289
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 16: will protect you from yourself and also from that big

1290
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 16: market roller coaster all volatilities what the jargon would be.

1291
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,600
Speaker 3: Then you've got a okay, so you've done all of that,

1292
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 3: and now you've got to look at the right kind

1293
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 3: of account and that I mean that can start. This

1294
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 3: is where the jargon starts to come in a little bit.

1295
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 3: And as soon as we start talking about investments, start

1296
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 3: to think about ZAX. So where do we start.

1297
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think it's interesting because a lot of the

1298
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 16: time this is actually where most people would start the

1299
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 16: conversation around their investments. They would look at the product

1300
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,519
Speaker 16: first and not really think about why they're investing or

1301
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 16: goal setting and then the risk tolerances, etc. So talking

1302
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 16: about your your product third, I think is important. You

1303
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:05,800
Speaker 16: need to go through those first two steps. And then

1304
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 16: you could say, well, Okay, I've got a longish time horizon,

1305
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:13,759
Speaker 16: so I know that I can know invest in growth assets.

1306
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 16: And you know, if you've got fifteen or twenty year

1307
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 16: time horizon, then it means that you can absolutely maximize

1308
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 16: your tax free savings account because you know, that's the

1309
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 16: one very nice long term investment that Sarage gives us

1310
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 16: where we don't pay tax when we put money in,

1311
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 16: and we don't pay tax on the growth or when

1312
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 16: we take money out. And I'm just remembering now, I

1313
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 16: think I was going to tell you that it was

1314
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 16: thirty six thousand, but it's actually jumped up now to

1315
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 16: forty five thousand or forty six thousand a year contributions

1316
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 16: that you can make to tax free. So for someone

1317
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 16: who's looking to save, you know, this is like almost

1318
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 16: the first step. And maybe you do this in parallel

1319
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 16: with your retirement tenuity or provident fund. So I think

1320
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 16: that you know, maximizing your tax remakes all the sense

1321
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 16: to me, but it is your long term investment. If

1322
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 16: you've got a very short time horizon where you need

1323
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 16: to save money for one or two years, then it's

1324
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 16: pointless putting in a tax reaccount because you use it

1325
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,559
Speaker 16: and lose it. In other words, if you put money

1326
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 16: in and you draw that money out, you may not

1327
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 16: top up that contribution again. So says to us that

1328
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 16: we can only put in five hundred thousand rand over

1329
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 16: our lifetime, and so if you draw out one hundred thousand,

1330
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 16: that means you can only ever put in four hundred thousand.

1331
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 16: So tax frees are great for long term ras or

1332
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 16: provident funds great for long term, but if you've got

1333
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 16: short term money, then you're looking at something like a

1334
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 16: unitrust or a money market fund or an exchange traded

1335
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 16: fund something that you can buy and sol relatively quickly

1336
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 16: and relatively efficiently.

1337
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 3: And an ra A provident fund.

1338
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 2: I love those.

1339
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:57,679
Speaker 16: You know, understanding that SARRUS gives us a very nice

1340
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 16: tax break when we make a contribution to are retirement funds,

1341
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 16: and then also that all the growth inside those retirement

1342
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 16: funds is tax free, so you get two very significant

1343
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:13,879
Speaker 16: tax benefits by contributing to retirement funds. And also remembering

1344
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 16: now that you can invest about forty five percent of

1345
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 16: your retirement fund can be globally invested, so you're getting

1346
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:24,560
Speaker 16: very good diversification. The only downside is the sort of

1347
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 16: lock up rules, which is you can't really access a

1348
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 16: lot of the money. You can access a portion of it,

1349
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 16: but the bulk of the money you'll only be able

1350
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 16: to access from age fifty five onwards. So again, the

1351
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 16: product needs to align with your time horizon. This is

1352
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:40,640
Speaker 16: something that you choose for your long term investments, but

1353
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 16: not your short term investments.

1354
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 3: Warren, We've got a question from Tammy. She says, I've

1355
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:48,800
Speaker 3: just been told I'm going to be a retrench soon.

1356
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 3: I'm getting a retrenchment payout. How do I make it last?

1357
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 3: While I'm looking for a new job. Such an interesting question.

1358
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:58,679
Speaker 3: Your questions too for Warren Ingram on seven to seven

1359
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 3: two one seven or two back with Warren in the moment.

1360
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: The Money Show Stephen Crotes is brought to you by

1361
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:10,799
Speaker 1: Absolve Corporate and Investment backing proud sponsors of GTR Africa

1362
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, enabling trade flows for growth, as does

1363
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: the registered epathy.

1364
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 4: For The Money Show Personal Finance with.

1365
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 3: Warren Ingram ten minutes to eight the time, and of

1366
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:27,880
Speaker 3: course we've got a question for you, Warren from Tammy

1367
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 3: saying about to be retrenched, I'm getting about how do

1368
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 3: I make it last while I look for a new

1369
01:13:32,479 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 3: job in a very tough position to be in. At

1370
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:35,639
Speaker 3: least she's thinking it all through.

1371
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 2: Well, what a what a horrible tough situation to be in.

1372
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,560
Speaker 16: And when you are faced with this kind of a

1373
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,760
Speaker 16: financial emergency, let's hope it's not a crisis and it's

1374
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 16: just just an emergency.

1375
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 2: Then a couple of comments.

1376
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 16: One, you know, it's very important to kind of go

1377
01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 16: into financial triage where you where you start to make

1378
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 16: very tough financial decisions as early as you possibly can,

1379
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 16: so you know your psychology here is I'm in a

1380
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:12,439
Speaker 16: position where I've got to make the most difficult decisions possible,

1381
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:14,679
Speaker 16: and I should do them very quickly and very early,

1382
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 16: not late when I've run out of all of my options.

1383
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 16: And and so just thinking about things like, you know,

1384
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 16: if you've got big car repayments and and you know

1385
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 16: it's a car you can sell and and and at

1386
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 16: least not have this big car hanging over you all

1387
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 16: the time where you've got to make this big payment

1388
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 16: and you don't know where the money's going to come from.

1389
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:37,600
Speaker 2: Then it would be decisions like that.

1390
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,720
Speaker 16: Or you know, you owe money on a credit card

1391
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 16: and there's the potential for you to settle the card.

1392
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 2: You know, also something to think about.

1393
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 16: But I think the starting point is, you know, face

1394
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 16: the reality and and and then second one will be

1395
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 16: your prospects if you are attrenched, and usually retrenchments don't happen,

1396
01:14:57,560 --> 01:14:59,439
Speaker 16: you know, in a day or in a week, there

1397
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 16: is a little bit of time the company starts talking

1398
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 16: to you and consulting with you, and and you know,

1399
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 16: I would also suggest you've got to be incredibly proactive

1400
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:10,760
Speaker 16: about looking for a position. If it's likely that you

1401
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 16: get a position quickly, that then maybe you don't need

1402
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 16: to make very radical decisions immediately, like selling your car.

1403
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 16: But if you are uncertain or you think there's a

1404
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,479
Speaker 16: there's a small chance of getting a new position quickly,

1405
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 16: then you've got to say, I'm in a crisis right now.

1406
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 16: I've got to make very tough decisions now because I've

1407
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 16: still got choices, and and so then I would say,

1408
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,559
Speaker 16: it's cutting your costs as fast as you possibly can, uh,

1409
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 16: and and making sure that you're you're you're paying the

1410
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,439
Speaker 16: absolute bare minimum stuff. You know, so you know, how

1411
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 16: can you how can you eliminate the unnecessary from your

1412
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:50,560
Speaker 16: life as quickly as possible? Cutting streaming services, you know, subscriptions,

1413
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:52,600
Speaker 16: all of those things you know you need to do

1414
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:55,800
Speaker 16: that you know, kind of radical cut right now. And

1415
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 16: there is no cost that's too small to look at

1416
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 16: in a situation like this, I think you start with,

1417
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 16: you know, your last few months of expenses, and you say,

1418
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:05,680
Speaker 16: you know, obviously I need to eat, Obviously I need

1419
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:08,759
Speaker 16: to pay my medical aid, I need to live somewhere.

1420
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,480
Speaker 16: But but pretty much everything else, you know, can be negotiable.

1421
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 16: The one thing I would say, though, is be very

1422
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 16: careful of doing things like canceling your medical aid or

1423
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 16: you know, if you if you've got a car and

1424
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 16: it is paid off and you're going to keep the car,

1425
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 16: you know, don't cancel your car insurance because those very

1426
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 16: big risks are the things that could wipe your art,

1427
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 16: you know, the very next day when you then have

1428
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 16: a car accident or a medical emergency.

1429
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:34,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1430
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 3: No, that makes so much sense for right now. I mean,

1431
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:39,240
Speaker 3: and I like the advice about sort of start now.

1432
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:41,400
Speaker 3: The more the more you do now, the better options

1433
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 3: you have. All right, So, building our investment portfolio, and

1434
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 3: we've now we've worked out what sort of a count

1435
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:49,320
Speaker 3: we're going to have, but we have to decide in

1436
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 3: our asset allocation. And this surely is a crucial decision

1437
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:53,840
Speaker 3: on this road.

1438
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 16: All the all the research I've ever seen says that

1439
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 16: it accounts for about, you know, getting the mix of

1440
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 16: your assets right, in other words, that combination of property, cash, bonds,

1441
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 16: and shares. If you get that decision right, that will

1442
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 16: be about ninety percent of the reason why you will

1443
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:14,680
Speaker 16: be successful. And if you get that decision wrong, then

1444
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 16: the ninety percent works against you. That will be ninety

1445
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:19,640
Speaker 16: percent of the reason why your investments don't pan out.

1446
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 16: So it is an absolutely crucial decision, and I think

1447
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:28,040
Speaker 16: you can split these into two broad categories, growth assets

1448
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:31,760
Speaker 16: and then secure assets. So secure assets are things like

1449
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:36,880
Speaker 16: cash and you know, decent government bonds. You know, I'm

1450
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 16: not sure i'd go and uven as well in bonds

1451
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 16: for example, I'm not sure that those are low risk,

1452
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 16: but those are your low growth but secure and then

1453
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 16: your high growth but very volatile assets would would be

1454
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 16: the stock market and the property market. And so you

1455
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 16: do want to get growth. You do want to grow

1456
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 16: your assets faster than inflation. So bias, you know, having

1457
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,679
Speaker 16: a bias and your investments to the growth asset makes sense.

1458
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 16: But you do need a spread, and that you do

1459
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 16: need that beloved d word, the diversification. So you need

1460
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 16: to make sure you've got to spread across all of

1461
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,479
Speaker 16: them and then don't forget that you're spreading them in

1462
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 16: South Africa and globally as well. And if you get

1463
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:17,120
Speaker 16: that spread right, when we do get some kind of

1464
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:19,360
Speaker 16: an unforeseen event like we're seeing now in the Middle

1465
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 16: East where something just happens on a Saturday or a

1466
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:25,240
Speaker 16: Sunday and it derails your portfolio, if you have a

1467
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 16: good spread of assets, it gives you a huge amount

1468
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:30,559
Speaker 16: of protection compared to someone, for example, who just buys

1469
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 16: text shares and suddenly they fall apart, you know, and

1470
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 16: drop fifty or sixty percent in a short period of time.

1471
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 16: That's when you get the asset deloication wrong.

1472
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 3: And how complicated should it be?

1473
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 16: I think we should make life pretty simple. I mean,

1474
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 16: I think you can choose two or three funds, you know,

1475
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 16: whether you say I'm going to buy a balanced fund

1476
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 16: in South Africa a balanced fund overseas, and maybe you

1477
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 16: just have two funds and you know, if you do

1478
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 16: that consistently and simply simply, I think you can get

1479
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 16: very very good diversification with art having to build a

1480
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 16: complex portfolio that you're managing twenty four hours a day

1481
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:07,800
Speaker 16: instead of you know, living and working.

1482
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 3: Okay, so now I've invested and now I've got the

1483
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 3: app looking at the stock market every day? How should

1484
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:15,799
Speaker 3: I behave?

1485
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 7: Now?

1486
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 16: You should behave as if that doesn't exist, that you

1487
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:22,640
Speaker 16: don't have an app, that you don't have a portfolio,

1488
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 16: and you know, miraculously, only every six months do you

1489
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 16: somehow remember that you've got this thing and then you

1490
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 16: look at it and you check it. But for the

1491
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 16: rest you should you should you know, have a correct

1492
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 16: structure and then let it do its job. Investments do

1493
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 16: incredibly well when you don't mess around with them and

1494
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 16: change them all the time. And it's the thing that

1495
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 16: people do, unfortunately, is they get emotional because there's an

1496
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:49,400
Speaker 16: event that social media screaming at them, the friends tell

1497
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 16: them that the world is ending, and then they start

1498
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 16: to look at their portfolios and adjust them. So I

1499
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 16: would say, the less you can look at the portfolio,

1500
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:02,480
Speaker 16: the better. And second, what can you do to automate

1501
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 16: your savings? In other words, can you set up debit

1502
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 16: orders to go into your accounts that are appropriate and

1503
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 16: you don't have to think about them every month? You

1504
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:12,600
Speaker 16: don't have to, you know, consider what's going on in

1505
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 16: the world. You just say, on the second of every month,

1506
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 16: I know I'm adding to my investments. I know they're

1507
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 16: correctly positioned, and in six months from now, I'll have

1508
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 16: a look and make sure everything's okay, and six months

1509
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 16: thereafter I'll do it again. But the less you can

1510
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 16: look at it and the less you can worry about it,

1511
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:30,679
Speaker 16: the better your investment returns will be over time.

1512
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:34,719
Speaker 3: Okay, So you basically need I mean, what's the phrase

1513
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 3: about you need time in the market. You've got to

1514
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 3: put it in and keep it there.

1515
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 16: Yeah, it's it's such a cliche, and unfortunately there isn't

1516
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 16: a better one. So you know, understanding that the longer

1517
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 16: you let your investments remain in the markets, doesn't matter

1518
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 16: that they're incredibly volatile, that the better it will be

1519
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:54,720
Speaker 16: for you over a long period of time. It is

1520
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 16: actually impossible to become a legendary market timer. You know,

1521
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 16: legendary market time is you see them in the movies.

1522
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 2: They're not in the real world.

1523
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:06,280
Speaker 16: And there might be one or two people that are

1524
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 16: incredibly lucky from time to time. But for the bulk

1525
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:11,280
Speaker 16: of us, if we want to do this simply and

1526
01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:13,400
Speaker 16: we want to be sure that we're going to get

1527
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:17,200
Speaker 16: good capital growth, leave your investment correctly structured, don't worry

1528
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 16: about the market drops that are going to happen a lot,

1529
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 16: and just give your portfolio time to growth. It's that

1530
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 16: the power of compounding is leaving things alone for a

1531
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 16: long period of time.

1532
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 3: Warren and Gram thank you so much, really appreciated financial

1533
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 3: advisor co founder at Galileo Capital, on personal finance tonight.

1534
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:39,640
Speaker 3: Decisions about benefits shouldn't be guesswork. Samaka consult part of

1535
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:43,599
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1536
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:48,759
Speaker 3: benefit solutions, independent advice, practical governance and strategies shaped around

1537
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 3: real people. They take employee care personally because you do too.

1538
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 3: When you care, everyone benefits. Talk to Samaka and build

1539
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,320
Speaker 3: an age of confidence to get that. Find out more

1540
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 3: at Samitaconsults dot co.

1541
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:09,160
Speaker 1: Dot The Money Show Stephen Krutez is brought to you

1542
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:13,560
Speaker 1: by Absolve Corporate and Investment backing proud sponsors of GTR

1543
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,560
Speaker 1: Africa twenty twenty six, enabling trade.

1544
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 3: Flows for growth.

1545
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:18,919
Speaker 2: AHAPS is a register fsp.

1546
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 8: Well.

1547
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 3: US market's turning positive tonight despite all of the sort

1548
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:26,680
Speaker 3: of fears and concerns and all the rest of it.

1549
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:29,280
Speaker 3: The Dow Jones is up point twenty nine, the Nastics

1550
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 3: up point five four, The S and P five hundred

1551
01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 3: is up point four to four. Plenty of time for

1552
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 3: things to happen before we talk to you again tomorrow

1553
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:41,320
Speaker 3: about follow Warren's advice and leave your investments alone. Back tomorrow,

1554
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 3: Good evening, Age