1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:01,320
Speaker 1: Join the conversation.

2
00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 2: This is k talk right now. They've been on with

3
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,520
Speaker 2: us before in an organization called NICRO. I don't know

4
00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,640
Speaker 2: if you've heard of them now. Crime prevention has often

5
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,280
Speaker 2: spoke about in terms of policing, but there's a critical

6
00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 2: layer that happens long before and long after someone enters

7
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,560
Speaker 2: the justice system. For that, excuse me. For more than

8
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 2: a century, NECRO has been working in that space, focusing

9
00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 2: on prevention, rehabilitation and reintegration. They were founded in nineteen

10
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 2: ten and the organization has played a significant role in

11
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,800
Speaker 2: shaping South Africa's criminal justice system and supporting safer communities.

12
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,280
Speaker 2: On with me now as the national Business Development Manager

13
00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,800
Speaker 2: for NECRO, It's Marta Reynolds and are we on zoom?

14
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:43,080
Speaker 1: Oh?

15
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,040
Speaker 2: Great? Good morning, Markta. Can you hear us?

16
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 1: Good morning? Yes? I can? Can you hear me?

17
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,880
Speaker 2: I've got you loud and clear. Thanks for making time

18
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 2: for us and a happy East if you do celebrate, Markta.

19
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 2: I'd like to start with essentially for those who don't

20
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,600
Speaker 2: know about your organization, and I know we've had you

21
00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,560
Speaker 2: on before, but in a nutshell, why don't you tell

22
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:00,640
Speaker 2: us what CROW does?

23
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 1: So? NICRO a national Institute for crime prevention and the

24
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,080
Speaker 1: reintegration of offenders. So essentially we have been operating since

25
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,480
Speaker 1: nineteen ten. We are we started offer us the Prisoners

26
00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 1: Aid Association, working with people that are incarcerated, and since

27
00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,800
Speaker 1: then we have moved very strongly into crime prevention because

28
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 1: obviously we would want to stop the process before people

29
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,000
Speaker 1: happen to be incarcerated.

30
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,639
Speaker 2: I see, so you're working not just with the before,

31
00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:27,319
Speaker 2: but with the after.

32
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:28,800
Speaker 1: Very broadly NCRO works in.

33
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,720
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry now most before oh Makami and the

34
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,080
Speaker 2: zoom line have to be patient because I've just interrupted

35
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,840
Speaker 2: you by accident. My apologies. Now I want to talk

36
00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 2: a little bit about the after and reintegration because it

37
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,760
Speaker 2: is so important, and I think in the context of

38
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,319
Speaker 2: particularly the Western Cape, and I know that you don't

39
00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 2: only work in the Western Cape, but in the Western Cape,

40
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,000
Speaker 2: and conversations we've had on this radio station so often

41
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,360
Speaker 2: is that crime and gang violence and a number of

42
00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 2: the issues that we have in that space, they come

43
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 2: from a space that requires deeper inspection of where the

44
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,760
Speaker 2: core problems lie. Socioeconomic issues that cause poverty, that cause crime,

45
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 2: and your organization kind of looks at that, doesn't it

46
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:15,040
Speaker 2: it looks from the causational issues through to what happens

47
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,960
Speaker 2: when offenders leave prison and how can we get them

48
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 2: to not reoffend. How do you even start in trying

49
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:22,800
Speaker 2: to solve these problems.

50
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,360
Speaker 1: So, as you said, it is genuinely a very complex issue.

51
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,160
Speaker 1: But what we find is that when we work with communities,

52
00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,519
Speaker 1: it's very easy to see where the gaps are. So

53
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 1: we would look at you know, we have an economic

54
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:44,280
Speaker 1: empowerment program, We have a lot of mental health that

55
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 1: we make available to the community as far as possible

56
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,240
Speaker 1: in terms of free to use workbooks, in terms of

57
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 1: our WhatsApp group, in terms of our app, so that

58
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 1: it can be you know, as accessible as humanly possible

59
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,640
Speaker 1: for just one organization. And we also have quite a

60
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 1: variety of our programs online, so for all those people

61
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,519
Speaker 1: who could not necessarily access our offices, we have other

62
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:13,000
Speaker 1: options and we have something that fits everybody, from economic enpowerment,

63
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,480
Speaker 1: mental health, you know, whatever the case may be, we

64
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,200
Speaker 1: have it, and if we don't have it, we can

65
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 1: create it.

66
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,800
Speaker 2: Got you, I got you. I want to talk about

67
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,440
Speaker 2: diversion programs and how they reduce reoffending.

68
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 1: It.

69
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 2: What is a diversion program is that what you call

70
00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:28,160
Speaker 2: them at NECRO.

71
00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,639
Speaker 1: Yes, it is what we call them. So diversion would

72
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 1: mean you were arrested for a first offense. So let's

73
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,240
Speaker 1: say something like drinking and driving, reckless and negligent driving, shoplifting,

74
00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 1: possession of drugs, and the court deemed that you would

75
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 1: be a good candidate for diversion, meaning that potentially the

76
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,080
Speaker 1: harm of the offense itself at that stage was not

77
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,920
Speaker 1: as great. So, for example, drinking and driving, you were

78
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 1: pulled over in a roadblock. There was no accident, how

79
00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,160
Speaker 1: what it got hurt? So let's see why are you there?

80
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 1: Are you somebody who's addicted? Can we help you in

81
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,560
Speaker 1: that sense? Did you go through a traumatic experience and

82
00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,720
Speaker 1: you were drinking and we can help you in that sense?

83
00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 1: Did you really not know? So? Did you think, for example,

84
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 1: you had one beer, but the one beer was a

85
00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,480
Speaker 1: draft which would actually put you over the limit. So

86
00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 1: let us then educate you around that. So where is

87
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,719
Speaker 1: the need and what can we do to address that

88
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,040
Speaker 1: need that we then lower the risk of you winding

89
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 1: up in that situation again, I hear you, and then

90
00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 1: we do tracking at three, six and twelve months after

91
00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,960
Speaker 1: you finished with us that we can ensure that you

92
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,000
Speaker 1: know the change is sustained.

93
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,120
Speaker 2: So you are checking in and you are checking up

94
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 2: with call it previous offenders, and you're making sure, as

95
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,159
Speaker 2: I said, checking up that it's not going to happen again.

96
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,680
Speaker 1: Yes, we are, and we check in with the friends

97
00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,719
Speaker 1: and the family and everyone as well to make sure

98
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,640
Speaker 1: that it's not just you telling us what we want

99
00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:55,960
Speaker 1: to hear.

100
00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,479
Speaker 2: Oh wow, how invasive, but probably necessary. Right, talk about

101
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 2: your contribution to legislation, and I don't know exactly how

102
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,960
Speaker 2: it is that your organization does contribute. Are you Are

103
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,280
Speaker 2: you involved with law enforcement on call at parliamentary level

104
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,960
Speaker 2: or how is NICRO involved with government? Do you work

105
00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:15,320
Speaker 2: together and how.

106
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 1: So there's a longstanding history of that in terms of

107
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 1: NCRO was the first people, way back when that actually

108
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,120
Speaker 1: introduced child diversion to say that a child should not

109
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,120
Speaker 1: be held with adults, and then that was made part

110
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 1: of legislature. So as we move on and we have

111
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: progress and things happen on our side, yes we do communicate.

112
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 1: There's not necessarily a sustained relationship at this stage, but yes,

113
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,960
Speaker 1: we do work together and it has an impact on

114
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 1: each other. Often the ideas are taken and you know,

115
00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 1: run with in terms of the legislation. Yeah.

116
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think at all order probably for you

117
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 2: as well, because I mean, we do we live in

118
00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,919
Speaker 2: a country with a massive you know, we have huge

119
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 2: crime statistics, and so I think the work that you

120
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 2: do is so probably very very difficult to do because

121
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,920
Speaker 2: it's again it's where you start where you end. You've

122
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,920
Speaker 2: got people who have not yet entered the system, but

123
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,760
Speaker 2: inevitably will, and then you've got those who've left the

124
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,760
Speaker 2: system and will re enter, and you're trying to sort

125
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,440
Speaker 2: of intervene there and get people out of the system

126
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,240
Speaker 2: into society, into being contributing members of society. And you've got,

127
00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,640
Speaker 2: as you said, various programs that do that, and you

128
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 2: try to work with law enforcement. How big is your team?

129
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,919
Speaker 1: So we have a NICRO in majority of the provinces

130
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,360
Speaker 1: apart from the Northern Cape, and for that there's now

131
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:41,720
Speaker 1: also online, So we cover a good space of area

132
00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 1: and we have quite a reach. We reach about twelve

133
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:51,359
Speaker 1: thousand people every year with our team. But yes, it

134
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,599
Speaker 1: is a mammoth task because we're also battling this idea

135
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,719
Speaker 1: that people have that NICRO works with criminals in the

136
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,680
Speaker 1: same that we pardon them, but that is not what happens.

137
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 1: We are trying to prevent people from getting in that

138
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,600
Speaker 1: space in the first place. And you don't understand how

139
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,000
Speaker 1: easy it is to get in to that space until

140
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,560
Speaker 1: you're there. So you can think you're out for a

141
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 1: party the night and you know, no big deal that

142
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,280
Speaker 1: you have whatever on you, and then you get arrested,

143
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 1: you go to the store, you're distracted, you walk out

144
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 1: with something, you get arrasted. It is very, very easy

145
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,920
Speaker 1: to wind up in that space and we are trying

146
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,520
Speaker 1: to help, you know, minimize the harm of that and

147
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:33,920
Speaker 1: minimize you being there again.

148
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's quite the task you've undertaken for yourself.

149
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 2: Markter Reynolds is the National Business Development Manager at NICRO.

150
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 2: Where can our listeners find out more about what your

151
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,559
Speaker 2: organization does or get involved or get help for someone

152
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 2: they know? How can we find them?

153
00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,760
Speaker 1: So on via our website and then we are also

154
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 1: on all the socials, so Facebook, install, linked in, YouTube,

155
00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,600
Speaker 1: you name it, we have it. You can DM there

156
00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:58,119
Speaker 1: as well.

157
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,720
Speaker 2: Fantastic. Markter Reynolds is the National Business Development Manager with NICRO.

158
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 2: NICRO thank you very much for your time and of

159
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 2: course for the work that your organization does,