Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephen Croutiz is brought to you
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Speaker 1: proud lead sponsor of B twenty South Africa twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: And now The Money Show.
Speaker 3: With Stephen credits on seven oh two.
Speaker 2: Let's walk this all.
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis has brought to you
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Speaker 3: Good evening, Welcome to the program. Eight minutes after six times.
Speaker 3: Stephen Curtis is the Friday edition of The Money Show.
Speaker 3: Plenty to come in the next little while. Freddy Mitchell,
Speaker 3: he's already in the studio, is the chief economist at
Speaker 3: a Luma Capital making the trek into sunt in this Friday.
Speaker 3: Imagine going against trafficker. I wouldn't know, obviously, but I
Speaker 3: presume going against traffic to get here. Talking about the
Speaker 3: situation the Monetary Policy Committee finds itself and you heard
Speaker 3: that conversation last night to Mintoboule and and Gina Scummann
Speaker 3: talking about this. We'll just take that on a little bit.
Speaker 3: There's still a lot more going on the Reserve Bank
Speaker 3: governor himself speaking about it today, and I got the
Speaker 3: sense he was trying to calm things down at just
Speaker 3: a little bit. Well, let's see, I mean, there's going
Speaker 3: to be a lot to come in this debate. We'll
Speaker 3: talk about collateral. I mean, when I think of collateral,
Speaker 3: I think of my house, I think of someone else's us,
Speaker 3: I think of some sort of acid. But a suggestion
Speaker 3: actually that to help small, smaller companies grow, and we
Speaker 3: know so many of them battle to do just that,
Speaker 3: that maybe if you sort of rethink the definition of collateral,
Speaker 3: maybe that would unlock some doors. I mean, every and
Speaker 3: I made this point to you before. Every entrepreneur I've
Speaker 3: ever spoken to has always said capital has been like
Speaker 3: their biggest problem. So often not the idea is often
Speaker 3: not the market, it's simply getting a hold of a
Speaker 3: little bit of money to start There seemed to be
Speaker 3: a major issue. We're talking lamping as well in Friday File,
Speaker 3: by which I mean, I don't know if you've done it.
Speaker 3: You might have seen them, you might have seen pictures
Speaker 3: of them. They look like it. They don't feel like
Speaker 3: a tent. I mean, they looked like an amazing sort
Speaker 3: of big, kind of often permanent structure. It's not quite
Speaker 3: my vibe. I'll tell you my vibe a little later
Speaker 3: when we talk about it. That we'll talk a little
Speaker 3: bit about that tonight. Looking forward to that conversation then. Also,
Speaker 3: don't forget the Friday Is Blitz as well. I do
Speaker 3: think that's going to be important part of tonight's Money Show.
Speaker 2: The Money Show with.
Speaker 3: Stephen Kruders live on ninety two point seven and one
Speaker 3: six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus NAP.
Speaker 2: And DStv channel eight five six.
Speaker 3: You may remember last night on The Money Show we
Speaker 3: were talking about the idea of minimum alcohol pricing is
Speaker 3: called a price floor. Essentially, you decide as a government
Speaker 3: you are going to say that to get legally drunk,
Speaker 3: it's going to cost you this much and it cannot
Speaker 3: go below that. This idea has been tried with a
Speaker 3: lot of success part in Scotland and some other countries.
Speaker 3: But the idea basically is to use price as a
Speaker 3: sort of disincentive to try and discourage people from drinking alcohol.
Speaker 3: And the sab COO made the point this week that
Speaker 3: that will just encourage the illicit industry. Said the illicited
Speaker 3: industry is currently around twenty percent of sales. Well, I thought,
Speaker 3: quite an interesting rapust. I'd like to get the two
Speaker 3: of them in a room sometime from David Harrison. He
Speaker 3: runs the Douglas Murray Trust, and he says, well, if
Speaker 3: the illicit industry is twenty percent of the market, four
Speaker 3: fifths of the damage is coming from the legalized market.
Speaker 3: He's not minsing his words there. His point though, is
Speaker 3: that there's real damage that's caused by the volume of volcohol.
Speaker 3: So the point that he makes is that if you
Speaker 3: buy one liter of a particular type of beer, the
Speaker 3: amount of olcohol, the volume of volcohol in that one
Speaker 3: liter of beer is costing you roughly half what it
Speaker 3: would cost to buy two or three smaller beers. So,
Speaker 3: in other words, the alcohols not the drink. The alcohol
Speaker 3: is much cheaper per liter of volume than it would
Speaker 3: it be if you could only buy a beer in
Speaker 3: smaller quantities and had to buy two or three of
Speaker 3: them to get to the same quantity. It's a really
Speaker 3: interesting debate. Actually, as I say, I know that it
Speaker 3: has certainly worked in some places, it hasn't worked everywhere,
Speaker 3: And we have a huge issue with the illicit economy.
Speaker 3: But this Friday night you'll views on a price floor
Speaker 3: for alcohol on double one double A three seven two
Speaker 3: two one four four six five six seven. I know
Speaker 3: you'll have a strong view on voice notes as well
Speaker 3: tonight on seven two seven oh two one seven o
Speaker 3: two two.
Speaker 2: Stephen is gone x at at Stephen Well.
Speaker 3: A comment today by the Reserve Bank Governor Lesecha Haniajo
Speaker 3: saying the bank is not changing its inflation target, it's
Speaker 3: merely targeting the lower end of its current target. He
Speaker 3: told the bank's AGM today that in the past, the
Speaker 3: bank had just decided the NPC had had basically targeted
Speaker 3: the midpoint of their inflation target of three to six percent.
Speaker 3: Now it's going to target the lower end, mainly, as
Speaker 3: he puts, a because inflation is kind of there already.
Speaker 3: And look, that is true. Inflation is there already. As
Speaker 3: you know, the constitution says the bank does have an
Speaker 3: obligation to protect the value of the currency. And I
Speaker 3: suppose we've seen doing what do I call it the
Speaker 3: Trump tariff turmoil, how difficult that's actually been. Freddie Mitchell
Speaker 3: is the chief economist at a Lumic Capital in our
Speaker 3: studio tonight, Pretty good evening, thanks for joining us. If
Speaker 3: you look at everything that's going on at the moment,
Speaker 3: would it be fair to say that the MPC's job
Speaker 3: of targeting inflation is more complex, harder, perhaps center it's
Speaker 3: been for quite some time. Yes, so it definitely said that.
Speaker 4: In my estimation, the the deal mandate mkes quite difficult
Speaker 4: because the deal mandate goes hand and hand with your
Speaker 4: foreign policy as well, and also what's going on in
Speaker 4: trade now the world receives us doing business with the world,
Speaker 4: so and in that it becomes quite difficult to say
Speaker 4: predictive value of durrand and into your price stability in
Speaker 4: the market.
Speaker 3: Why does it affect sort of things like foreign policy?
Speaker 3: And I mean part of it is that if you
Speaker 3: have a weaker round or a stronger round, that has
Speaker 3: an impact in all sorts of different ways.
Speaker 4: For the goods that we consume in Soo Africa that
Speaker 4: is normally imported, so we can excerent rate or around
Speaker 4: against a dollar, does falter through to the consumers on
Speaker 4: the floor. And then in economics you speak about we
Speaker 4: know that prices are sticky down with so basically when
Speaker 4: prices go up, it doesn't tend to go down very easily,
Speaker 4: and in certain circumstances it doesn't come down at all.
Speaker 4: So yes, from an exporting purpose, you can say a
Speaker 4: week around is better. But from a consumption perspective with
Speaker 4: in South Africa, that's quite detrimental if you look at
Speaker 4: the few costs associated with oil prices and what that
Speaker 4: have on motorists and also on the let's say logistics
Speaker 4: South Africa, knowing that rug trate is quite a big
Speaker 4: part of the South African economy.
Speaker 3: In some ways, the real tension hasn't changed in this argument.
Speaker 3: If interest rates are too high, the economy will suffer.
Speaker 3: It won't grow, People won't start businesses, they won't be
Speaker 3: able to borrow money to start businesses. Interest rates are
Speaker 3: too low, inflation gets out of control, people won't be
Speaker 3: able to even buy food. So is managing that tension?
Speaker 3: Has that changed fundamentally in some way and the idea
Speaker 3: of aiming for a sort of lower inflation is going
Speaker 3: to have an impact on that tension.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say the tension of really decreased or anything
Speaker 4: is just I think it's more about now on the forefront,
Speaker 4: thrust into the main or the public view. More so
Speaker 4: with the Trump drafts coming in or the trade wars
Speaker 4: have input it, that's going to come into effect for
Speaker 4: most countries that haven't struggled with the US. I guess
Speaker 4: in my opinion that that will have a big effect
Speaker 4: about public perception about inflation and your inflation expectations in
Speaker 4: the market, and where Reserve Bank is going to go
Speaker 4: with that in terms of let's say, targeting a lower
Speaker 4: lower number within the band. And there's been lots of
Speaker 4: speculation and rumors in the market that the Reserve Bank
Speaker 4: and National Treasury is basically at log age. There's the
Speaker 4: Treasury preferring a bit of iron number to give them
Speaker 4: some leeway within the within the legal frameworks, versus a
Speaker 4: target point to target which is quite more difficult to
Speaker 4: each other to attain. And that was going to lead
Speaker 4: to a let's say a title monetary policy over time.
Speaker 3: I mean, it can get a bit technical, but on paper,
Speaker 3: I think for most of us there isn't much difference
Speaker 3: between an inflation target of three percent or three and
Speaker 3: a half percent or four percent. But actually there's a
Speaker 3: huge amount of difference I view the Monetary Policy Committee. Yes,
Speaker 3: there's a there's quite a big different world. It's it's
Speaker 3: if you if you.
Speaker 4: Talk about big money in investment, one point five percent
Speaker 4: on bonds or or let's say created is quite a
Speaker 4: big amount of you if you're talking billions. So it
Speaker 4: becomes really a different world when you when when the
Speaker 4: money start become a big number. So for the Reserve Bank,
Speaker 4: two percent will ensure for them price stability and they
Speaker 4: can have a look at that, and it gives the
Speaker 4: outside world basically an idea that we on top of
Speaker 4: our game in terms of inflation targeting and actually trying
Speaker 4: to predict the domesic economy from inflation appraisers that it's
Speaker 4: normally associated they'd say worth emerging markets for that sake.
Speaker 3: So a big part of this is a phrase you've
Speaker 3: already mentioned, inflation expectations, and the governor himself made that
Speaker 3: very clear at the beginning of all of this. He's
Speaker 3: been talking a lot about inflation expectations. So to put
Speaker 3: this another way, this is about the reputation, the credibility,
Speaker 3: the legitimacy of the Reserve Bank. Whether you can believe
Speaker 3: that inflation will be three percent now, if the bank
Speaker 3: is not able to hit this lower target, let's just
Speaker 3: call it that for the moment, this if it's not
Speaker 3: able to keep inflation at three percent, that weakens its credibility.
Speaker 3: That will affect inflation expectation. And isn't there quite a
Speaker 3: big gamble here You're going for as things stand, You're
Speaker 3: going for three percent, which is hard to get, and
Speaker 3: you put your credibility on the line at the same time.
Speaker 3: Is that part of this conversation.
Speaker 4: I think it's part of the conversation, But I think
Speaker 4: it's a bit of a bit more than that. If
Speaker 4: you if you if you look at let's say, when
Speaker 4: you when you have a range between three and six percent,
Speaker 4: which is the visual view, it gives you a bit
Speaker 4: of leeway to be a more a bit more accommodative
Speaker 4: within the market given economic circumstances. But when when you
Speaker 4: look at the targeted approach and you let's say you
Speaker 4: at three point two percent or three point five percent,
Speaker 4: it means that you're going to start a typening cycle,
Speaker 4: and consumers and producers and everyone in the market knows
Speaker 4: that the let's say a tightening cycle is coming about.
Speaker 4: So you you affect inflation expectations by by let's say,
Speaker 4: cranking the gears harder towards getting what you want if
Speaker 4: you're the bank.
Speaker 3: So yes, they're putting it on the line.
Speaker 4: But in the other sense is if they start tightening it,
Speaker 4: it shows that they've got clear intent of keeping it
Speaker 4: where it is it's supposed.
Speaker 3: To be to the way in their view. Do you
Speaker 3: have any idea on how this is going to play out?
Speaker 3: And let me say, I have no idea how this
Speaker 3: is going to play out. I have some suspicions that
Speaker 3: I suspect. I mean, we put the politics to one side.
Speaker 3: The real risk, of course, is that we lose the
Speaker 3: moments when it would be easier to do it, and
Speaker 3: inflation starts to creep up, and then suddenly it becomes
Speaker 3: impossible for me. Uh.
Speaker 4: I like to look at the exchange rate because we
Speaker 4: For me, everything everything inches on what our extrage re
Speaker 4: is in because we import a lot of the stuff
Speaker 4: that we actually consume and use within the Salt African
Speaker 4: economy is imported by default.
Speaker 3: You get your fuel, you get.
Speaker 4: Your extron electronic components, things that make a modern economy tick.
Speaker 4: So if you if you if you exchange rate go haywire,
Speaker 4: or you lose quite a bit of value on your
Speaker 4: aunt or the rounding appreciates, and a better term, it
Speaker 4: means that your your import costs will will increase and
Speaker 4: that will have an inflation pressure. So if you can
Speaker 4: keep the round relatively stable, let's say, like the banks is,
Speaker 4: we were aiming for a bit more say less couragcy
Speaker 4: fluctuation or out there they put it protecting the value
Speaker 4: of the rand. It means that we're trying to great
Speaker 4: price stability by let's say, getting the rant to move
Speaker 4: within a certain range or acceptable range. So producers and
Speaker 4: consumers consult planning accordingly. We know the few prices have
Speaker 4: been done because the world price has been coming down
Speaker 4: from close to eighty dollars to mid sixty five to
Speaker 4: seventy seventy two, and it has been fluctuating.
Speaker 3: So that's quite a nice thing to you know.
Speaker 4: It's like world price is done and the round remains
Speaker 4: stable even with the tariffs coming in. So that for
Speaker 4: for the next couple of months. If said it was
Speaker 4: spider whist, let's say, if everything else keeps being constant,
Speaker 4: that is a good thing for the bank and they
Speaker 4: can actually maintain credibility with a lower inflation target point
Speaker 4: and lex table exchange.
Speaker 3: Right, So I guess that's that's where we're moving to.
Speaker 3: Pretty Mitchell, thanks very much, indeed for coming in the
Speaker 3: chief economist at Allumic Capital in The Money Show's studio tonight.
Speaker 2: That's on The Money Show six to eight pm.
Speaker 3: Well, last night on the program, you heard how a
Speaker 3: new survey shows that half of the small companies that
Speaker 3: were asked believe they might not survive the next year
Speaker 3: without some kind of intervention. I mean, it shows you
Speaker 3: how desperate they are. A big part of this, of course,
Speaker 3: is about getting proper capital, in other words, getting enough
Speaker 3: money to start and then to grow. Zahir Dindar is
Speaker 3: the CEO of the agrifoodfintech company Pumpkin dot Io. As
Speaker 3: a here, good evening, I think for most of us
Speaker 3: when we think about borrowing money, when we think of
Speaker 3: these small businesses in the capital they need now, I
Speaker 3: think of the word collateral as some kind of asset,
Speaker 3: usually often a physical asset, not always. You are suggesting
Speaker 3: that we change our definition of collateral.
Speaker 5: Nie, Stephen, thank you for having me on the show.
Speaker 5: What's an aster of privilege to be in a big
Speaker 5: hello to all the folks listening in. Indeed, Stephen, you know,
Speaker 5: with all the hurdles and you mentioned some of the
Speaker 5: scary stuff facing SMUs, with all the hurdles facing them,
Speaker 5: I think for us, the big shift we want to
Speaker 5: make is, rather than having them bend over to the
Speaker 5: needs of the traditional data needs of lenders, we kind
Speaker 5: of have to bend over to the data that's available,
Speaker 5: the information that's available, and you know, still underwrite them
Speaker 5: because they're an acid class that is absolutely worth backing.
Speaker 5: So yes, collateral needs to be rethought, how we underwrite
Speaker 5: the data that we use to answer the question about
Speaker 5: their cred worthiness. All of this needs to rethink, and
Speaker 5: it's up to lenders and hopefully innovative businesses like ours,
Speaker 5: to change how we think about it.
Speaker 3: Okay, what kind of financial data are you looking at?
Speaker 3: Are you looking at someone's bank records? Are you looking
Speaker 3: at something else, maybe a record that's held by you know,
Speaker 3: a service provider or something.
Speaker 5: Yeah, great question. I think there's three categories of information
Speaker 5: we look at. First, it's just about you know, the
Speaker 5: k y C KAB, the verification that the business in
Speaker 5: fact exists. Then outside of that, there's really two questions
Speaker 5: we have to answer. The first question is can this
Speaker 5: business afford you know, the capital, can can this business
Speaker 5: afford paying this capital back? And the other question we
Speaker 5: have to answer is is this a good payer? And
Speaker 5: over time, both of these things can change. So again
Speaker 5: it's up to us to innovate about how we answer
Speaker 5: those questions. For us, yes, we look at transaction history,
Speaker 5: we look at all the k y c KAB stuff,
Speaker 5: we plug into what the credit bureaus think. A big
Speaker 5: chunk of how we make these decisions is actually based
Speaker 5: on in on platform interaction. So even though our interactions
Speaker 5: with entrepreneurs are very brief, we can actually pick up
Speaker 5: quite a bit about the propensity to repay just by
Speaker 5: Intel acting with us on platforms. So those are the
Speaker 5: categories of data we used.
Speaker 3: Does this have an impact on the interest that you
Speaker 3: would charge? Some people would have, you know, pristine economic data.
Speaker 3: You can say they you can see they've never missed
Speaker 3: the payment. For some maybe they'll be slightly risking your
Speaker 3: charge more interest. And I keep coming back to all
Speaker 3: of that's fine, but if it all goes wrong, what
Speaker 3: do you do? Yeah?
Speaker 5: I mean, what makes us a bit differenceven? We are,
Speaker 5: you know, funding businesses that are credit filesin right? What
Speaker 5: makes us unique is what we call our funding ladder.
Speaker 5: So our funding ladder is designed to support businesses as
Speaker 5: the girls and it's me. We'll start with a small loan.
Speaker 5: We learn about every payment behavior and improve our ability
Speaker 5: to forecast the affordability and of a time, we develop
Speaker 5: a deep understanding of the credit profile. Importantly, larger tickets
Speaker 5: are unlocked to improve and on smaller tickets. So this
Speaker 5: structured loan scaling old room, our funding ladder is what
Speaker 5: makes us unique. So to go back to your question
Speaker 5: earlier on on the funding ladder, that's when we don't
Speaker 5: know a lot about you at all. You know, it's
Speaker 5: very risky for us, in which case we might price
Speaker 5: a little bit higher. But as we get to know you,
Speaker 5: and as we develop a thick credit file of you,
Speaker 5: you know, then then interest rates dropped loan teners you know,
Speaker 5: increase and and the amount of capital we provide can
Speaker 5: increase as well.
Speaker 3: So here, I'm sure I don't need to remind you,
Speaker 3: as any investment advert will, that past performance is not
Speaker 3: indicative of future results. I mean, you still don't have
Speaker 3: anything to take to hold if this goes wrong.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's you're quite right. I mean there's there's a
Speaker 5: couple of things, right. We've actually come across really interesting
Speaker 5: data from the Reserve Bank. The data suggests that folks
Speaker 5: that interact on platform frequently show the discipline that that
Speaker 5: sort of allows folks to to to do a better
Speaker 5: to analyze their credit profile in more detailed way. So
Speaker 5: you quite right past beforeans doesn't always indicate good behavior,
Speaker 5: but it's a really solid way. And actually with the
Speaker 5: tools that we have, the interaction that we have on
Speaker 5: platform is a brilliant way of testing the operations of
Speaker 5: making sure that the entrepreneurs sid engaged. So we certainly
Speaker 5: hope that that is the case with us.
Speaker 3: No sure, I mean, Mama LORDI sometimes will win the
Speaker 3: league again soon, So yeah, it turned out, yeah, thanks
Speaker 3: very much. Indeed, herend it's the CEO of the agrifoodfintech
Speaker 3: Pumpkin dot I. I mean, it's fascinating idea. Would you
Speaker 3: lend money to someone because you know they're good with
Speaker 3: their money, or would you only lend money to them
Speaker 3: if they give you something as sort of the old
Speaker 3: fashioned definition of collateral. I would probably sleep better at
Speaker 3: night mowing I had something. But there are people I've
Speaker 3: come across or have thought, oh I'd lend money to you.
Speaker 3: I'm definitely going to get that back. I know you'll
Speaker 3: have a view on O double one double A three
Speaker 3: oh seven two and two one four four six five
Speaker 3: six seven, No money show the Mark grand Is portfolio
Speaker 3: manager Beinguela Global Fund Managers Grant. Good evening. A tough
Speaker 3: day for Tom Gela. I mean they were down eight
Speaker 3: percent at one point. They came back a little bit
Speaker 3: and there's all from an earnings update. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Look, it's a touch trading environment for the coal producers, Steven.
Speaker 6: The coal price has been drifting lower for well over
Speaker 6: a year now, and you can see the oil price
Speaker 6: as well, for energy per ses is under pressure. And
Speaker 6: they did try and diversify. They brought a Newcastle coal
Speaker 6: in Australia and they've you know, they've just got some child.
Speaker 6: There's only so much you can do if the price
Speaker 6: is coming down. You can you can operate your minds
Speaker 6: as best you can, but some things are out of
Speaker 6: your control. And I think the best I can hope
Speaker 6: for is are bottoming out in this coal price. Notably,
Speaker 6: I've seen China's planned coal production. They've got four hundred
Speaker 6: and fifty new sites of my mind sits earmarked for
Speaker 6: a new coal production. So you know, there's no short
Speaker 6: sit of call in the world, and you need a
Speaker 6: very strong global economy to turn this the demand curve around.
Speaker 3: I'm sure you've been watching this sort of inflation target
Speaker 3: NPC National Treasury debate along like everyone else. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's the kind of thing that can fundamentally change our economy,
Speaker 3: but there's likely to be a little bit of pain
Speaker 3: somewhere along the line.
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, I think you know, credit to the reserve banks.
Speaker 6: They actually have a lot of credibility. They are they
Speaker 6: are notoriously dubbish, and the fact that it's even a
Speaker 6: conversation we can have told you what a good job
Speaker 6: they've done of, you know, establishing credibility around inflation and
Speaker 6: managing that component of the economy.
Speaker 7: I do.
Speaker 6: It does concern me though, do we have the patience
Speaker 6: to wait for that job diven in to come through,
Speaker 6: for the economy diven in to come through, given how
Speaker 6: tough things are already, And we also are notoriously restrictive
Speaker 6: in our monetary policy to achieve this current inflation target,
Speaker 6: let alone a lower target. So I like the idea.
Speaker 6: I am just concerned that we may be only walking
Speaker 6: one side of the line and not both. If you
Speaker 6: look at the FED, who walks the economic the employment
Speaker 6: and the interest rate, you know, the inflation mandate.
Speaker 3: I mean, US markets were up last summe. I checked
Speaker 3: half an hour ago, and that really is because of
Speaker 3: what they're expecting from the Fed, because of this new
Speaker 3: sort of inter picked as an interim governor.
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, so, you know, we saw the economic data
Speaker 6: looking backward, the jobs data was soft. The market immediately
Speaker 6: started pricing in red cuts. And of course now you've
Speaker 6: got one of the governor Board of Governors resigned and
Speaker 6: said the Trump as appointed someone. It's only a temporary appointment.
Speaker 6: But nonetheless, we know there'll be dubbish. We know they'll
Speaker 6: be on the side of cuts, and it does talk
Speaker 6: the balance even more in favor. The markets certainly started
Speaker 6: to price that in, and that is always historically equity
Speaker 6: favorable to see a red cuting environment kick off again.
Speaker 3: And then gold obviously gold chairs doing nicely, but the
Speaker 3: gold price again, and I suppose you'd expect twenty four
Speaker 3: hours after the Trump tariffs came into effect.
Speaker 6: Yes, Trump TIFFs, plus you've got lower rates, so they
Speaker 6: tend to gold as well, when you know interest rates
Speaker 6: for lower, the cost of carrying is cheaper, and the
Speaker 6: dollars weakening on the back of the red cut expectations.
Speaker 6: So all of that it's all a positive, you know,
Speaker 6: And so there's a lot sorry gold positive and there's
Speaker 6: just so many reasons to see gold holding and building
Speaker 6: even further from here.
Speaker 3: Thanks very much, indeed, Grant Nader's portfolio manager at Benguela
Speaker 3: Global Fund Managers.
Speaker 2: They show the.
Speaker 3: Friday File Friday FI, don't forget, you'll play the Friday
Speaker 3: there's blitz in a moment, questions to come around, the
Speaker 3: jac around India, around well, if you've just managed to
Speaker 3: squeeze a queshion around Albert Einstein of all people, Well,
Speaker 3: I suppose on Friday File tonight, I should tell you
Speaker 3: a little something about myself and my family which you
Speaker 3: may or may not know, which is that one of
Speaker 3: the things we like to do is to go camping.
Speaker 3: You pack your trailer, cold box, some food, you pack
Speaker 3: a few other families, and if you go to a campsite,
Speaker 3: you put up your tents. Some people can go hiking
Speaker 3: if they really want. Others of us more knowledgeable, perhaps
Speaker 3: sit back and enjoy the scenery and usually the company.
Speaker 3: There is another way to do this, though, You can
Speaker 3: get quite a similar experience without all the hassle of
Speaker 3: the trailer and the tent and all of that. You
Speaker 3: can go quite a nice word glamping. Manu Bluemik is
Speaker 3: the co founder and director of Every Camps boutique Galamping. Manu,
Speaker 3: good evening, and thanks very much indeed for joining us.
Speaker 3: I mean when I tell people that I go camping,
Speaker 3: that I sleep in a tent, they're often horrified. You
Speaker 3: have something that's a little better than my four steper tent.
Speaker 7: Yeah, thanks sir Stephen for having me. Yeah, I suppose
Speaker 7: there is something for everyone. I mean, if you are
Speaker 7: become very happy to pitch your own tent, and if
Speaker 7: that makes you happy, then camping is definitely for you.
Speaker 7: But there's definitely a way to experience nature but without
Speaker 7: losing too much of the comfort, and that's definitely glimping.
Speaker 3: How would you describe the structure you're going to sleep under.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not a house. It's not really a
Speaker 3: tint in the traditional sense. What is it?
Speaker 7: I think you can almost see it as an apartment
Speaker 7: that is cladded with can first, So it's definitely a tent.
Speaker 7: You get a tent feel, but you've got a fully
Speaker 7: equipped kitchen, you've got your bedrooms, you've got the bathroom,
Speaker 7: so you've got all the amenities from home. But it
Speaker 7: definitely feels like sleeping in a tent.
Speaker 3: How what I mean the key test of this actually
Speaker 3: is the kind of bed that you have. It's not
Speaker 3: a blow up mattress. It's a normal bed, right.
Speaker 7: HiT's a normal bit. Yeah, so that is I think
Speaker 7: one of the things that, yeah, that we want to
Speaker 7: take care of is that that you sleep well. So
Speaker 7: there's actually quite a good metrice in the tents. So yeah,
Speaker 7: that's that's one of the ways we try to reference
Speaker 7: your weight compared to normal camping.
Speaker 3: And the structures are permanent? Are there all the time.
Speaker 7: That they are actually permanent? Yeah, most of the tents
Speaker 7: that we build, I mean the oldest stents at the
Speaker 7: moment is standing already for ten years. So although the
Speaker 7: structure you can see it as semi permanent, I mean
Speaker 7: it's a structure with wooden pulls into the ground, but
Speaker 7: that they are meant to be used as permanent structures.
Speaker 3: What kind of material then are you using or using
Speaker 3: some form of sort of canvas, maybe something of a
Speaker 3: higher tech.
Speaker 7: No, it's exactly, it's a canvas. So we the structure
Speaker 7: is wooden poles. We basically clad it with canvas and
Speaker 7: the roof is made out of PPC.
Speaker 3: Okay, So where are they because you go camping, I mean,
Speaker 3: part of it is just to get out of Cape Town,
Speaker 3: just to get out of joe Burg. Part of it
Speaker 3: is also about actually going somewhere interesting. So where they
Speaker 3: are is really important. You need other attractions in the
Speaker 3: area around them.
Speaker 7: Definitely, Yeah, definitely. At the moment, we've got nineteen camps
Speaker 7: throughout the country and I think by now we've covered
Speaker 7: most parts of South Africa. But it's definitely how we
Speaker 7: determine the locations. We want to make sure that, yeah,
Speaker 7: that the people can see still see the highlights of
Speaker 7: the country, so we actually look where the tourists already
Speaker 7: go and we try to find a beautiful property in
Speaker 7: that area to develop.
Speaker 3: Do you find that a lot of people who are
Speaker 3: your customers, they're South African or they're coming from other places.
Speaker 7: Must Funny enough, the majority of our clientele is local.
Speaker 7: So I think at the moment about sixty five percent
Speaker 7: is South African and about thirty five percent is from overseas.
Speaker 3: Have you seen that sort of change over the years
Speaker 3: or was that being pretty consistent. I mean a lot
Speaker 3: of people will, you know, will sort of you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes a new idea or a new concept. I mean,
Speaker 3: clumping has been around for a while, but it can
Speaker 3: take a little while to take hold. You know, people
Speaker 3: need to get used to the idea first. They need
Speaker 3: to hear from a friend that, oh, you know, we
Speaker 3: did this and we quite enjoyed it, and that's sort
Speaker 3: of how a business like yours would grow exactly.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Yeah, I think we've seen a major shift around COVID.
Speaker 7: So twenty twenty, before COVID, I think it was about
Speaker 7: fifty to fifty low called versus international COVID COVID actually, uh,
Speaker 7: you know, international guests were not no longer, Yeah, that
Speaker 7: they couldn't travel, and for us, the local market completely
Speaker 7: took over. So I think probably South Africans were also
Speaker 7: forced to look within their own country to see, you know,
Speaker 7: where can I have a good holiday, Where can I
Speaker 7: spend my holiday? And they've really discovered afrigames and yeah,
Speaker 7: and since then, the local clientele has always been very strong.
Speaker 3: Do you find I mean for some people there must
Speaker 3: be quite a lot of people who've never who's sleeping
Speaker 3: in your tense, who've never actually slept outside of a
Speaker 3: sort of brick structure before they they this is a
Speaker 3: big first for them.
Speaker 7: Definitely, Yeah, definitely, I think a lot of people normal
Speaker 7: camping can be quite scary. It can be a little
Speaker 7: bit daunting because you need to erect your own tent.
Speaker 7: So this takes that that that that fear away from them.
Speaker 7: But you can still experience the magic of staying in nature.
Speaker 7: I mean you can still walk outside and you can
Speaker 7: you can look at the stars, you can emerge in nature.
Speaker 7: But you you you don't have all the preparation work,
Speaker 7: and you don't have to be afraid that that your
Speaker 7: attend is not standing before the night.
Speaker 3: Or more more likely the air mattress goes down. Do
Speaker 3: you think do they I wonder, I mean I wonder
Speaker 3: if some people come do it a couple of times
Speaker 3: to africamp a couple of times, and actually it turns
Speaker 3: them onto other camping. You know, this is suddenly what
Speaker 3: they do now because it's fun to be outside and
Speaker 3: and I must just say, man, I'm a big fan.
Speaker 3: You know, sleeping outside is different. It is a fun
Speaker 3: and different thing.
Speaker 7: Definitely, Yeah, definitely, I think you're right. I think for
Speaker 7: a lot of for a lot of people, this is
Speaker 7: the first introduction to staying in nature. And I think
Speaker 7: probably for a lot of people, yeah, they want to
Speaker 7: do more afterwards.
Speaker 3: So okay, you sleep in the structure, you wake up,
Speaker 3: you have breakfast, you've got a kitchen and all the rest.
Speaker 3: What do people do after that? Do they look at game,
Speaker 3: do they go to a music festival, Do they go
Speaker 3: walking or swimming or something?
Speaker 7: Definitely, Yeah, definitely. I think what we've seen a lot
Speaker 7: is that. I mean, nowadays life is extremely fast. We
Speaker 7: are all glued to the screens, and I think what
Speaker 7: people often appreciate is that when you go glimping, it
Speaker 7: slows down a little bit. You know, you have time
Speaker 7: for each other again, you can reconnect with yourself, you
Speaker 7: can reconnect with nature. So what a lot of people
Speaker 7: do is they go hiking, they go you know, explore
Speaker 7: the area, They do nice activities. I mean, we've got
Speaker 7: a lot of camps, for example, on working farms, so
Speaker 7: we've got camps on wine farms, so they can do
Speaker 7: wine tasting, so I think a lot of people explore nature.
Speaker 3: Very convenient to go wine tasting and go back to
Speaker 3: your permanent tent afterwards. Is it very seasonal? Does it
Speaker 3: get quiet over winter? I mean, can you sleep in
Speaker 3: these things in the middle of winter?
Speaker 7: Funily enough, it's not that seasonal.
Speaker 8: I mean.
Speaker 7: We've been expired inspired by by the glamping from Europe,
Speaker 7: and in Europe, it's definitely a seasonal thing. So the
Speaker 7: glimping sites are often only operational for five months per year,
Speaker 7: but we are open twelve months a year, and we've
Speaker 7: we made the units suitable for a bit called the
Speaker 7: weather as well, so we've got a fireplace inside, we've
Speaker 7: got electric blankets, and all the tents are equipped with
Speaker 7: a wood fight or terp so it's actually not not
Speaker 7: too bad to stay in a ten during winter time
Speaker 7: as well.
Speaker 3: Very different to my experience as an attend in winter time. Manu,
Speaker 3: thanks very much, indeed really appreciated. Man Wu. Blue Mink
Speaker 3: is the co founder and directed Africamp's boutique Glamping. Taking
Speaker 3: your call on one one eight three seven time now
Speaker 3: for the Friday bus Blitz. It is Friday. It is
Speaker 3: seven minutes to seven. You know the numbers. You just
Speaker 3: heard them. O double one double eight three seven, O
Speaker 3: two and two one four four, six, five, six seven.
Speaker 3: You know how it works. You phone us. If you
Speaker 3: get the answer right, we give you a question. If
Speaker 3: you get the answer right, we move on to the
Speaker 3: next question. If you get it wrong, we move on
Speaker 3: to the next call. The first question tonight on the
Speaker 3: Friday bis Let's Luxury camping, commonly known as glamping, is
Speaker 3: a portmanteau, in other words, a mixture, a combination of
Speaker 3: which two words the word glamping. Which two words have
Speaker 3: been smashed together to form the word glamping? A double
Speaker 3: one double A three oh seven two two one four
Speaker 3: four six, five six seven.
Speaker 2: The Money Show Friday bus lit.
Speaker 3: We only got five minutes until the seven o'clock news.
Speaker 3: O double one double eight three oh seven oh two
Speaker 3: O two one four four six oh five six seven.
Speaker 3: If you get the answer right, we move on to
Speaker 3: the next question. If you get it wrong, we move
Speaker 3: on to the next call. A luxury camping known as glamping,
Speaker 3: is a portmanteau, a mixture, a combination of which two words.
Speaker 3: Let's start with alec in swiney alec good evening, do
Speaker 3: you know the answer.
Speaker 8: Hi, Stevenya, it's glamorous and camping.
Speaker 3: It is, Alec. I don't know if you're glamorous and
Speaker 3: go camping, but clamping it is glamorous and camping. Okay,
Speaker 3: here's the second question. Okay, what is the jas's ticker
Speaker 3: symbol or trading code on the local boss? What is
Speaker 3: the jas's sticker symbol or trading code on the local boss? Oh?
Speaker 8: Wow, I have no idea.
Speaker 3: You have no idea. You're gonna You're gonna kick yourself hard, Alec.
Speaker 3: Just think about it, Okay, Okay, the J code will
Speaker 3: say yes, yes, it is. Yeah. You didn't think it was,
Speaker 3: did you. Okay? Yes. We spoke this week to doctor
Speaker 3: Layla Free, the CEO, about the interim results. Okay, name,
Speaker 3: here's the third question. Name, name the South Asian country
Speaker 3: that's been hit with a fifty trade tariffs by the
Speaker 3: United States. Which country in South Asia ended up with
Speaker 3: a tariff of fifty percent and there was a particular
Speaker 3: reason about it?
Speaker 8: Your ah, either maybe South Korea, Taiwan?
Speaker 3: Maybe, yeah, South Asian country. I'm afraid I'm sorry. Okay,
Speaker 3: I've given you too many chances already, so I think
Speaker 3: that's that's going to be that. I'm afraid o double
Speaker 3: one double a three seven two two one four four
Speaker 3: six five six seven. The South Asian country that's been
Speaker 3: hit by a tariff of fifty percent by the United States.
Speaker 3: What do you think it is? Maybe you know which
Speaker 3: it is, and maybe you know the reason why this
Speaker 3: particular country is now going to hit has now been
Speaker 3: hit rather by this fifty trade terriff. Let's say it's
Speaker 3: funny George Hello, yes, yes, do you know the country?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 6: If I do?
Speaker 8: What is it?
Speaker 3: It's India? It is India, George, congratulations, Yes, an unexpected target.
Speaker 3: Trump said that he's punishing India because they've been buying
Speaker 3: oil from Russia. Okay, next question. Here we go on
Speaker 3: the Friday bus blitz. Which scientist or physicist is credited
Speaker 3: with calling compound interest or compounding the eighth wonder of
Speaker 3: the world. Very well known scientist or physicist.
Speaker 8: Oh okay, I'm just gonna take a gift and say tie.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's George. Yes, compound interest is the eighth wonder
Speaker 3: of the world. Look, I mean Google says it's him,
Speaker 3: so who knows? Okay, here we go, next question, Ned
Speaker 3: Bank has signed divorce papers from which an African banking group,
Speaker 3: which Pan African Banking Group has ned Bank decided to
Speaker 3: sign its divorce papers with a.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know what have you been
Speaker 8: at some point? But you know what, I will looks
Speaker 8: behave buddy, but yeah no, no no, I'll get on
Speaker 8: the trade of this point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, George was it was a good ride and unlike
Speaker 3: most of them, had ran on time. Thank you. Let's sign,
Speaker 3: Shosan Gouber. Do you know the answer? Net Bank signing
Speaker 3: divorce papers from which Pan African Bank.
Speaker 8: I think it's Time Bank.
Speaker 3: It's not Time Bank. Let's se it's a very particular bank.
Speaker 3: You don't know, eh, all right, let's se.
Speaker 1: Bank it is.
Speaker 3: Let's SiGe is the winner. Let's sie thank you. On
Speaker 3: the Fridays blitz tonight, good even thing. It's seven o'clock