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Speaker 1: Seven. You're listening to the best of The Money Show.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Best Bits of the Money Show, a

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Speaker 3: digest of some of the most important interviews, thoughts, comments

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Speaker 3: and insights that we've had from our guests this week.

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Speaker 3: If you'd like to hear more, please go to our

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Speaker 3: website or go to any of the podcast apps and

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Speaker 3: search for The Money Show. It would be nice. I

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Speaker 3: think for people in your life, your community, maybe your household,

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Speaker 3: maybe your street, WhatsApp group, if there's something going on

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Speaker 3: that you think they might benefit from one of these conversations,

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Speaker 3: maybe just stick it on a WhatsApp to them so

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Speaker 3: they can have the benefit of The Money Show as well.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: To start some of the news stories that we thought

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Speaker 3: were important this week and South Africa week, finally, after

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Speaker 3: a very long time, becoming a full member of the

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Speaker 3: African Export Import Bank. It's the largest trade institution and

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Speaker 3: our continent and as a result we qualify pretty much

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Speaker 3: immediately for an eight billion US dollar financing package. Three

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Speaker 3: billion of that we'll go to the transformation front kick

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Speaker 3: that off. But certainly so many years after the end

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Speaker 3: of A Part eight, we finally joined that bank. Our

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Speaker 3: Trade Minister parks taous in China at the moment, supposedly

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Speaker 3: to sign the China Africa Economic Partnership Agreement that will

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Speaker 3: see all of our exports getting access to the Chinese

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Speaker 3: markets duty free, a lot of trade with China at

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Speaker 3: the moment. Partly I suspect because you have the White

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Speaker 3: House to thank for that. And our national minimum wage

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Speaker 3: increasing to just over thirty rand for the first time.

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Speaker 3: That's thirty round an hour. It's an increase of one

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Speaker 3: rand and forty four cents. It starts becomes into force

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Speaker 3: at the beginning of March. Tonight, we bring you a

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Speaker 3: mixture of stories from the world of money, from the

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Speaker 3: week that has been and how I make my money

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Speaker 3: this week. Amanda Cromhot, the founder and CEO of Truth

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Speaker 3: It's a loyalty CRM and customer strategy consultancy. How you

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Speaker 3: run a really good loyalty program? Why is it that

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Speaker 3: when you walk into some stores you feel welcome, you

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Speaker 3: feel part of it, in some store you don't. It

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Speaker 3: really is that intersection between data, money and then a

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Speaker 3: little bit of art in there as well.

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Speaker 4: Amanda, as a consumer, that's exactly what you think of, like,

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Speaker 4: what is this going to do? For me, shall I

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Speaker 4: swipe my card? Is it worth it? And at the

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Speaker 4: end of the day, all the brands that we work

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Speaker 4: with in the loyalty industry have to make sure that

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Speaker 4: that's the first and foremost criteria, to make sure that

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Speaker 4: customers are happy and that it's worthwhile for them, because

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Speaker 4: if it makes sense for their business but doesn't make

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Speaker 4: sense for the customer, then ultimately it's not going to survive.

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Speaker 4: So we spend a lot of our time helping the

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Speaker 4: brands in South Africa or around the world who we

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Speaker 4: assist in loyalty programs and so forth getting the balance

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Speaker 4: right between what is fabulous for the consumer, what's going

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Speaker 4: to make a difference for the consumer, and also then equally,

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Speaker 4: what is commercially viable for the brands who are operating

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Speaker 4: these loyalty programs, Because if one is great for the

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Speaker 4: consumer but actually is sinking the brand, it's not going

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Speaker 4: to But if it's great for the brand and not

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Speaker 4: good for the consumers, equally not going to last. So

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Speaker 4: it's a balance and I think that's where you said

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Speaker 4: the science and the soul. It's very scientific from an

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Speaker 4: economic point of view, from a mathematical returnal investment point

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Speaker 4: of view, but it's also there is a there is

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Speaker 4: a soul to it in terms of is this going

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Speaker 4: to work, is the consumer going to like this? Is

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Speaker 4: it going to really make a difference versus the competitors

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Speaker 4: because virtually every brand out there now has a loyalty

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Speaker 4: program of sorts, so you have to differentiate somehow, and

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Speaker 4: that's a little bit of the soul coming through. So

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Speaker 4: it's very scientific, though, don't you know, not to let

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Speaker 4: that loose.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to come back to that because I find

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Speaker 3: that interesting, but I do want to just focus on

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Speaker 3: the soul for a second. I mean, what is the soul?

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Speaker 3: I mean you look at a retail chain and you

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Speaker 3: think it doesn't have soul, and yet people walk into

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Speaker 3: it or speak to the workers, interact with people, kind

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Speaker 3: of know where the sweet counter is, and I think

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Speaker 3: they they come out of that shopping experience. They do

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Speaker 3: come out of it moved in some way. I mean,

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Speaker 3: shopping has become so much less frustrating than it was

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Speaker 3: twenty years ago.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So, I mean I've had the luxury of working

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Speaker 4: as a retailer within the retail industry, and I always

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Speaker 4: that I've heard the best retailers in the world refer

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Speaker 4: to the retail industry as science and soul, and I

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Speaker 4: think that's exactly right. There's a very scientific approach to

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Speaker 4: merchandising and pricing and so forth, but there's a very

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Speaker 4: the soul of a retailer. So I had the privilege

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Speaker 4: of working for Wallers South Africa for three years and

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Speaker 4: we used to you know, the Simon Susman was the

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Speaker 4: CEO at the time, and he used to talk about

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Speaker 4: the soul of retailing, like the smell of the strawberries

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Speaker 4: or the feel of the fabric in woman's fashion and

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Speaker 4: so on. And it's true, right, like if you smell

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Speaker 4: a beautiful strawberry in the grocery store, you're more likely

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Speaker 4: to say I want that, rather than just if it's

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Speaker 4: based on price and more scientific methods. So and I've

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Speaker 4: just I mean, a lot of the work that we

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Speaker 4: do at TRUTH is working with brands around the world,

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Speaker 4: and I've just had the privilege of working not working

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Speaker 4: so much so, but visiting a retailer in Australia who

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Speaker 4: really excelled at the soul of getting close to their

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Speaker 4: customers and making them, getting their customers to love, love,

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Speaker 4: love their brand and that's something that's you know, just

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Speaker 4: data alone or scientific analysis can't create. There's a soult.

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Speaker 4: There's a soul behind that approach, without doubt.

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Speaker 3: It's so interesting to sort of think about how it

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Speaker 3: works because I sometimes wonder can a brand with a

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Speaker 3: soul make a mistake that affects the soul but not

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Speaker 3: the science. And I'll give you an example. There is

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Speaker 3: a particular British shift that I cannot stand. I haven't

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Speaker 3: been able to stand him. I couldn't stand Jamie Onlomano

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Speaker 3: when I lived in the UK thirty years ago. I

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Speaker 3: can't stand him now now I might be the only one,

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Speaker 3: but I think, frankly, that's a huge mistake. And sending

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Speaker 3: me a WhatsApp thing with him actually saying my name

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Speaker 3: before hitting the drums, I tell you what I wanted

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Speaker 3: to do with the drumsticks, Amanda. But can you get

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Speaker 3: the soul wrong?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? No, you're making me laugh because I've used that's

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Speaker 4: a good example of where you're picking up on the soul,

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Speaker 4: but I pick up on the science because the science

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Speaker 4: of that is very much that they pick up on

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Speaker 4: how loyal you are to the brand, and that we're

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Speaker 4: talking about the famous Checkers sixty sixty and their Simple

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Speaker 4: Truth brand, and they've used that campaign very cleverly from

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Speaker 4: a science point of view in terms of understanding what

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Speaker 4: I shop and talking to me about what I shop.

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Speaker 4: And I am a simple Truth you know, I do

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Speaker 4: buy the Simple Truth brand. So they're getting it right

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Speaker 4: from a science point of view without question. Here in

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Speaker 4: your case, maybe they're just unlucky that you don't like Oliver,

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Speaker 4: but you're right, you know that's a brand preference. But

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Speaker 4: that is and if it completely missed the mark for you,

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Speaker 4: But for me, that's a great example of a scientific approach,

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Speaker 4: but the execution maybe is missed the mark for some consumers.

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Speaker 4: And how they would predict that. I have no idea.

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Speaker 4: I don't know why you don't like him, but that's

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Speaker 4: your personal soul.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a long list of reasons, but we don't

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Speaker 3: need to go into that now. I mean, I'm sure

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Speaker 3: he's sure, he's perfectly nice.

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Speaker 1: To do all of this.

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Speaker 3: To make it work, To make the science work, you

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Speaker 3: would need to have data, and I would imagine a

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Speaker 3: ton of it, and you would need to know who

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Speaker 3: your shoppers are. You'd need to know how they came

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Speaker 3: across you, they would need to know if they grew

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Speaker 3: up coming to your stores. I mean, if you look

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Speaker 3: at our big retailers, most of them will have customers

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Speaker 3: who grew up going to them in some way. You

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Speaker 3: need to know who you're aiming for. The data must

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Speaker 3: be key to the whole thing.

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Speaker 4: It is, of course, but I'll correct you maybe on

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Speaker 4: one thing is you actually don't need heaps and heaps

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Speaker 4: of data. So obviously a big national retailer like a

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Speaker 4: WALLW sort a check or one of the big retail

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Speaker 4: banks and so forth, they have gogantuum amounts of data

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Speaker 4: and do amazing things with it with permission obviously from

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Speaker 4: the customer. With and that's the best news is in

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Speaker 4: the last five years or more globally but also here

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Speaker 4: in South Africa, the legislation really does protect the consumer.

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Speaker 4: So it's if they're not then they're absolutely incomplete breach.

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Speaker 4: But it's not just the big boys that can can

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Speaker 4: use the data effectively. We've you know, we're starting to

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Speaker 4: see and help brands that are tiny organizations that may

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Speaker 4: just be a corner florist for example. They can collect

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Speaker 4: data very simply from whether it's signing up for email receipts,

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Speaker 4: whether it's signing up for a newsletter, and can effectively

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Speaker 4: as well hopefully change how customers feel about their brand

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Speaker 4: because they're starting to create this relationship. But obviously with

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Speaker 4: the big global players or the big national players, they

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Speaker 4: are collecting rows and rows and rows and rows of

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Speaker 4: data against millions and millions of customers. And we've seen

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Speaker 4: the South African loyalty players be recognized globally for the

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Speaker 4: work they're doing in loyalty and with the use of

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Speaker 4: their data. So brands such as F and B, E Bucks,

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Speaker 4: TFG Shop right, they've all been recognized globally for the

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Speaker 4: work they're doing. And that doesn't just come because they're

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Speaker 4: good brands and they sell nice merchandise. To be recognized

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Speaker 4: on the global stage for their data analytics capability. They're

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Speaker 4: doing so responsibly, so the consumer is always protected, and

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Speaker 4: so they're adding value to the customer's life and obviously

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Speaker 4: they'n a commercial return for themselves. And that's what I

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Speaker 4: started off by saying, it's got to have almost like

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Speaker 4: a seesaw effect, that it's got to be a balanced

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Speaker 4: seesaw that the consumer benefits whilst the brand benefits. It

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Speaker 4: can't be heavily weighted one against the other, Otherwise it

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Speaker 4: has no sustainability.

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Speaker 3: When you're trying to start one of these systems. Let

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Speaker 3: me go back a little bit to get the customer loyalty.

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Speaker 3: Does it all boil down to price in the end? So,

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you look at the two big pharmaceutical

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Speaker 3: chains that we have, they both have massive loyalty programs.

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Speaker 3: Does it boil down to who is getting their goods

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Speaker 3: for cheaper at the end? Or is there more to

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Speaker 3: it than that? Is that like the be all and end,

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Speaker 3: or is it just one of the factors.

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Speaker 4: Steven, I think you're raising a very good point here

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Speaker 4: around price sensitivity in the role loyalty place. So we

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Speaker 4: issue every annual white paper for South Africa. It's called

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Speaker 4: the Truth and Brand Map white Paper. It's based off

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Speaker 4: data that it's called a Brand Map study, and we're

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Speaker 4: about to we're literally writing now and creating the new

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Speaker 4: white paper for twenty twenty six. So in twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: five's white paper, we saw the emergence of the power

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Speaker 4: of loyalty to help the consumer get through month end.

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Speaker 4: So there were three main concerns in this data by

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Speaker 4: the South African consumer saying, my biggest concerns in life

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Speaker 4: are one crime, corruption and money. I don't have enough

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Speaker 4: money cost of living. So the third reason for people

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Speaker 4: stay awake at night was cost of living. And then

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Speaker 4: this study asked, well, what helps you get through the

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Speaker 4: cost of living crisis and they said, number one, I

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Speaker 4: cut back on clothing clothing spend, Number two, I cut

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Speaker 4: back on going out to restaurants, and number three I

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Speaker 4: use loyalty programs. So loyalty programs have become not so

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Speaker 4: much a luxury or sort of add on to how

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Speaker 4: consumers survived, but part of their every day, everyday method

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Speaker 4: of shopping and making ends meet. So the data last

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Speaker 4: year was eighty two percent of South Africans use loyalty programs.

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Speaker 4: And that's not just eighty two percent might think about it,

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Speaker 4: eighty two percent might have a lorty card, but eighty

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Speaker 4: two percent actively use loyalty programs, and without giving away

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Speaker 4: the data for this year's white paper, that number definitely

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Speaker 4: hasn't gone down, is all I can say at this stage.

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Speaker 4: So so South Africans. It is one of the most

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Speaker 4: mature markets in the world, and the South African consumer

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Speaker 4: is one of the most engaged consumer in loyalty programs,

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Speaker 4: probably because they need it. And also it's a combination

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Speaker 4: of needing it and wanting it and enjoying it. But

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Speaker 4: the needing it is a real big thing here. We

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Speaker 4: do see that globally as well, but we see it

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Speaker 4: a lot more here. And I've had I've done interviews

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Speaker 4: with Clicks or F and B E Bucks, Clicks club Card,

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Speaker 4: F and B E Bucks who all confirm the same.

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Speaker 4: They can see how consumers are using their points, whether

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Speaker 4: it's Kapitech, whether it's Ebucks, whether it's Clicks, whether it's disc,

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Speaker 4: all of the big loyalty players, they can all see

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Speaker 4: by the way customers are using it that it's helping

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Speaker 4: them make ends meet, I mean, clicks go. Milani, Doctor

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Speaker 4: Milani Van Roy gave a wonderful example of how maybe

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Speaker 4: a decade ago, customers used to use their Clicks club

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Speaker 4: Card points on luxuries like perfume or lipstick or you know,

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Speaker 4: a treat, whereas now it's being used on basics like

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Speaker 4: soap or toothpaste or toilet roll. So there's a shift

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Speaker 4: and that we see in the data, you know, and Ebucks.

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Speaker 4: I've got on record an interview I did with EBU

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Speaker 4: with F and B E bucks where they say, you

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Speaker 4: know that our redemption rate is one of the highest.

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Speaker 4: That's definitely one of the highest in South Africa, Like

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Speaker 4: over ninety percent of all ebucks issued are used and

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Speaker 4: that's enormously high. And a lot of the time it's

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Speaker 4: on essentials like utilities or just getting through month end.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 3: Speaking to Amanda chrom Ho tonight found it CEO of

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Speaker 3: Truth on how I make my money expert in consumer loyalty, Amanda,

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Speaker 3: I have a couple of questions about about the level

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Speaker 3: of engagement that you talk about and how engaged South

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Speaker 3: Africans are with loyalty programs. Are they differences among along

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Speaker 3: gender lines? Do you find on one side is more

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Speaker 3: one side? Are women more engaged by men? There I've

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Speaker 3: spat out what I'm really asking.

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Speaker 2: I love.

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Speaker 4: If you'd asked me four years ago, I'd have said absolutely,

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Speaker 4: and I think the predictable answer would have been lady

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Speaker 4: women's shoppers, female shoppers or consumers are more engaged in

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Speaker 4: using loyalty programs more.

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Speaker 2: But the very.

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Speaker 4: Interesting thing is now it's marginally if it's either the

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Speaker 4: same or just marginally different. And we saw that shift

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Speaker 4: after COVID. So during COVID, I think with the balance

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Speaker 4: of folks working from home and then probably more of

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Speaker 4: a balance of the every day like buying groceries or

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Speaker 4: popping out to buy nappies or whatever. We saw the

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Speaker 4: chef change and male consumers becoming much more engaged. So

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Speaker 4: female consumers didn't drop their engagement, but male consumers have

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Speaker 4: caught up. We do see a slight difference if you

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Speaker 4: take it category by category. So typically fashion shopping is

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Speaker 4: more female dominated by females. In the lordty engagement or

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Speaker 4: fuel purchases and retail banking is more male consumers are engaged.

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Speaker 4: But if you take overall in across all South African

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Speaker 4: lorty programs at South African consumers is pretty much like

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Speaker 4: for like in an age. If you look at age differences,

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Speaker 4: we see a younger consumer. By younger we say between

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Speaker 4: eighteen and twenty five, they are very much less engaged,

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Speaker 4: and I think it's a reflection of their ability to spend.

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Speaker 4: You know that either just starting out in life or

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Speaker 4: still students or unemployed, so they have less disposable income,

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Speaker 4: less need of using lorty programs. But that's that catches

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Speaker 4: up we're not seeing that gap get bigger every year,

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Speaker 4: but we're not seeing the catch up to the average

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Speaker 4: South African consumer.

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Speaker 3: You talk, I know, you speak internationally and you've spoken

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Speaker 3: in many places and very big events too. Are our

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Speaker 3: consumer programs different to what happens in other countries? I mean,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I would think the Americans must have sort

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Speaker 3: of built this. I mean maybe they didn't have no idea,

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Speaker 3: but that's just my presumption. I mean, are our programs

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Speaker 3: different to other places?

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Speaker 4: So I'm going to absolutely correct you there. So we

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Speaker 4: are one. I really am saying this without any bias.

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Speaker 4: And I'm originally I'm British, so I'm originally from the UK.

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Speaker 4: So I love the South African market not just because

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Speaker 4: I love living here, but because I feel that this

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Speaker 4: market is very advanced and mature in the loyalty industry. Now,

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Speaker 4: why is that it wasn't necessarily I'd say ten years ago,

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Speaker 4: I'd say they're still catching up to do. But there's

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Speaker 4: been this huge explosion and there's no way, you know,

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Speaker 4: if I look if I look at just from my

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Speaker 4: experience and talking to brands and working with brands around

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Speaker 4: the world, and then working with the South African brands.

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Speaker 4: We are most definitely one of the best markets. But

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Speaker 4: that is also proven by I'm a judge on the

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Speaker 4: International Loyalty Awards. I'm also the chair of the South

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Speaker 4: African and African Layalty Awards, and we see the South

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Speaker 4: African brands on the global stage outperforming the other countries.

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Speaker 4: So other retailers are the financial services brands, So it's

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Speaker 4: not just me saying it. It's not just a bias

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Speaker 4: as a judging panel of I think there's about thirty

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Speaker 4: judges of which I'm one of them on the International Awards,

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Speaker 4: and last year the South African brands as a country,

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Speaker 4: we took home more awards than anywhere else, USA, UK

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Speaker 4: and so on. Now there's still elements where I feel

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Speaker 4: we could catch up in terms of delivery in the marketplace.

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Speaker 4: But if I look at what some of the brands

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Speaker 4: are doing, and some of them we've mentioned already tonight,

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Speaker 4: they are definitely ahead or on a par with international progress.

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Speaker 3: Amanda Cromhache, they're the founder and CEO of Truth looking

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Speaker 3: at data analytics that attention about how you've got to

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Speaker 3: manage how much money you give your customers and how

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Speaker 3: much they'll give you in return.

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Speaker 1: The best of the Money Show and two two.

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Speaker 3: This is unusual This week Advita and I do the

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Speaker 3: Africa Managing director at jack Hammer Global looking at traditional

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Speaker 3: management structures and how they're becoming less effective and why

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Speaker 3: that is so much change. I mean, change has always

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Speaker 3: been an issue with management, obviously all the time, but

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Speaker 3: so much seems to be moving at the moment, and

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Speaker 3: Adita suggesting that one of the reasons maybe is that

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Speaker 3: managers don't get to spend enough time being managed themselves

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Speaker 3: and as a result aren't rarely sort of given the

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Speaker 3: right role models to actually lead teams. Is something shifting

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Speaker 3: that's making management harder, And I think management's been getting

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Speaker 3: harder for quite some time, but now you've got lots

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Speaker 3: of other factors, including AI, which I think scares everybody.

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Speaker 5: Is that having an impact?

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Speaker 1: Maybe?

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Speaker 6: I think there are but one hundred things having an impact,

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Speaker 6: But I don't know if you know this a Gallop

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Speaker 6: research It says it's usually simplified to people don't leave companies,

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Speaker 6: they leave managers. And I think that shows that the

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Speaker 6: manager is the strongest determinant of whether people are going

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Speaker 6: to stay engaged or not. And it's something we see

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Speaker 6: daily at Jackhammers. So personally, I think two of the

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Speaker 6: biggest things that leads to management degradation actually indicate that

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Speaker 6: it's a structural problem, it's not an individual or personal one.

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Speaker 6: And the first is that traditionally management was learned through

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Speaker 6: kind of like an informal apprenticeship, like you observe a

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Speaker 6: senior leader, how they made decisions, how they exercise influence,

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Speaker 6: how they manage conflict, and the trade offs that they made.

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Speaker 6: And now when people step into management roles without having

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Speaker 6: had that exposure, they start relying on policies, they become

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Speaker 6: a little bit efficient, they escalate issues more, and that's

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Speaker 6: because they don't trust their own discretion yet. So it's

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Speaker 6: not really weak leadership, it's just underdeveloped judgment. And then

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Speaker 6: the second thing is, you know what's disappearing in this

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Speaker 6: this corporate quest for efficiency and rationalization is the layers

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Speaker 6: organizations are just flatter. So promotions are happening faster, layers

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Speaker 6: are being removed because we're trying to retain high performers

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Speaker 6: or there's a technical or operational competence that must be rewarded.

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Speaker 6: And so you know the lack of the leadership apprentice

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Speaker 6: and the greater hierarchy, or rather the leadership apprenticeship and

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Speaker 6: the greater hierarchy meant that junior managers used to strengthen

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Speaker 6: a muscle by having graduated responsibility, and the structure was

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Speaker 6: the scaffolding for them to learn management in a safe

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Speaker 6: way rather than what we have now is kind of

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Speaker 6: like a bolderplane while flying it with.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we see our managers less and less, even

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Speaker 3: if we're working in an office. You know, so much

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Speaker 3: happens on WhatsApp rather than in a phone conversation. I

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Speaker 3: love a phone conversation, mate, All of those things, and

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Speaker 3: I mean the lessons, the ability to see how to

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Speaker 3: deal with something. I just think that we've lost something

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Speaker 3: about being human and that's one of the consequences of

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Speaker 3: everything that's changed, and that means worse management, absolutely.

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Speaker 6: And it works two ways, right, So one, being able

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Speaker 6: to observe your manager making those decisions and grapple with

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Speaker 6: those things and understand the thinking behind it helps you learn.

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Speaker 6: But also from a managerial point of view, the remote

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Speaker 6: work or the hybrid work has shifted management itself away

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Speaker 6: from observation to you know, kind of like assumption and

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Speaker 6: inference about what people are doing, and managers see outputs

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Speaker 6: but less of the process that produces them. And sometimes

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Speaker 6: that means managers disengage and they just trust that whoever

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Speaker 6: is doing what they're doing is getting on with it,

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Speaker 6: which is fine. But then there are others who compensate

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Speaker 6: by overmeasuring or overcontrolling, and you know, neither of the

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Speaker 6: both are particularly effective. And what they're missing is that judgment,

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Speaker 6: the context, and the trust, which are really hard to develop.

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Speaker 6: When you don't see the process unfolding, you don't see

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Speaker 6: how people respond under pressure. You can't give real time

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Speaker 6: feedback on what they're doing and how they could improve.

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Speaker 3: It's also managers not having enough time with other managers.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they also don't see their managers if you

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Speaker 3: see what I mean, So you know, I will see

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Speaker 3: a manager and think they're not doing this properly and

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Speaker 3: wasn't like that in my day. But actually that manages

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Speaker 3: battling too because they're not being managed effectively either.

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Speaker 6: That's exactly right. And again it comes to the lack

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Speaker 6: of exposure and the flattening of the structures because you know,

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Speaker 6: as much as we want to call kind of like

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Speaker 6: the old school way of doing things, bureaucratic, or you know,

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Speaker 6: there were too many barriers to entry, or people used

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Speaker 6: to talk about, oh, well, this is the way we

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Speaker 6: do things around here, and this is the way it's

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Speaker 6: always been done. There was a certain learning capability that

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Speaker 6: was built into that structure, and new structures haven't accommodated

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Speaker 6: or compensated for what is missing there. Yet.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if this is just how things are going

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Speaker 3: to be and it's not going to change because the

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Speaker 3: push for efficiencies is relentless. I wonder also that even

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Speaker 3: though Joebergs traffic will tell you that more and more

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Speaker 3: people are spending more and more time in the office,

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Speaker 3: in the end, it's just not going to be like that,

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Speaker 3: and so management isn't going to really get better.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I think they're probably ways that they could.

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Speaker 6: And just you know, to pick up on your point

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Speaker 6: about efficiencies, and you know, you mentioned AI and automation earlier,

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Speaker 6: I think you know the risk there is that AI

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Speaker 6: and automation take over the coordination part of work, and

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00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 6: this drive or efficiency is really unintentionally stripping out some

436
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 6: of the work which managers used to learn about how

437
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 6: organizations hung together, how they functioned, and how to get

438
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 6: the best out of their team. And you know that

439
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 6: coordination work is scheduling, the tracking, the routing of information.

440
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 6: We dismiss it as low value, but it's there where

441
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 6: people learn prioritizations. I think in order to make the

442
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 6: new system work, we need to find ways that builds

443
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 6: that decision making back in without sacrificing on the efficiency,

444
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 6: and also appreciate that automation compresses time. Yes, we want

445
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 6: decisions to happen faster, but we also need to appreciate

446
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 6: that it also means that tolerance and room for error decreases,

447
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 6: which is wonderful for execution. But future leaders, they're not

448
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 6: getting the chance to make mistakes. They make mistakes, learn

449
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 6: from them, and then correct them.

450
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 3: People will talk about, oh, well, we could change the

451
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 3: culture of this organization. We can change the organizational values.

452
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 3: None of them are talking about let's spend more money

453
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 3: on more managers spending more time with their workers and

454
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: watching each other.

455
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

456
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 6: Absolutely. I think when companies think about cultural interventions, they

457
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 6: think about the symbolic workshops and the pretty websites. But

458
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 6: that's not how you sustain good culture. Like you say,

459
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 6: it's building in more managerial capability and it's sustained by

460
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 6: those everyday managerial decisions like how the feedback is given,

461
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 6: how the conflict is handled, and that consistent over time,

462
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 6: so that the decisions were consistent and rather than letting

463
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 6: people become avoidant or overly procedural and policy driven, you

464
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 6: have you start to build faith and strong culture in

465
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 6: the way your business is run.

466
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 3: I'd read than I do there speaking about the changing

467
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 3: nature of management and what leaders need to do to

468
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 3: try and lead teams in the current era.

469
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: Seven notes The best of the Money Show from this week.

470
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 3: Our shape shift to this week. Adrian Maisie. We're a

471
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: fascinating career, going from a Pretoria Boys High winning a

472
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: tennis scholarship to the US and going from there to

473
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 3: work in a couple of hedge funds and then buying

474
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: the license for Starbucks across South Africa. You go into

475
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 3: a Starbucks here, you're drinking his product. He had so

476
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: much to say about the coffee business, how interesting it

477
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 3: is and what's changing within it. You took over the

478
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 3: license for Starbucks here, it was twenty nineteen. I mean

479
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 3: things were a little different back then. It wasn't doing

480
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 3: quite so well. Why were you so Keen. I mean,

481
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 3: did you spot an opportunity Did you think, actually there's

482
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: a way to make money out of us?

483
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, that's actually I'd like to invote that question.

484
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 7: I think the brand was doing very well back then.

485
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 7: The brand that was associated with the prior owner that

486
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 7: company got.

487
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: Itself into trouble. That was Taste Holdings, but the brand itself.

488
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 7: The thirteen stores we bought in twenty nineteen were flagship,

489
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 7: beautiful stores, some of the most beautiful in the world,

490
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 7: and they had great sales. What I saw in it

491
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 7: was potential and an opportunity to get something that we

492
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 7: could grow and build a dream around for South Africa

493
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 7: and in South Africa, and that's when we stepped in.

494
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 3: At the time, obviously with Taste, there's a lot of

495
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: things you had to sort out, and you did all

496
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 3: of that. Did you feel that there were many changes

497
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 3: you need to make to the Starbucks brand there? Look

498
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 3: the feel of going into a Starbucks in South Africa?

499
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 3: I mean in South Africa, as you know, we like

500
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: to think we're very different to everyone else, and we

501
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 3: aren't always, But were there things you felt you needed

502
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 3: to change about the feeling of walking into one?

503
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 7: You know, they did a great job Tasseholdings to building

504
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 7: these beautiful flagship stores that set the brand up for

505
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 7: success in the country. What they didn't have and what

506
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 7: they needed was time to build a diversified portfolio that

507
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 7: could sustain whatever variable came over time. And we got

508
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 7: hit right within two months of earning the business with COVID,

509
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 7: and that dramatically increased any need to diversify, and the

510
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 7: learning lesson there was we needed smaller stores in locations

511
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 7: outside of malls, inside of grocery stores, etc. And that's

512
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 7: what they needed and it required a longer view or

513
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 7: longer a larger balance.

514
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 2: Sheet for them to get there. So they set up

515
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: nicely for success.

516
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 7: So we picked it up from there and then we expanded,

517
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 7: and that was the primary change we did, was getting,

518
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 7: you know, getting outside of just simply being the primary malls,

519
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 7: being more of an habitual brand than a destination.

520
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: And we're sort of grown along the way doing that.

521
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 3: I mean, I've had to so many shape shift. Is

522
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 3: what their COVID experience was like for a coffee shop

523
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: like yours. I mean, your first thought must have been

524
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 3: this is going to be brutal, and yet you came

525
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,719
Speaker 3: out of it quite nicely. It seems.

526
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were lucky.

527
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 7: We've just capitalized the business, and so we leant forward.

528
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: We had no choice.

529
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 7: We were in and there was no chance to pull out,

530
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 7: and I said, listen, let's see how let's grab land

531
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 7: while we can.

532
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: So while the tide was out.

533
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 7: We dove in and in the first year, the first

534
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 7: eighteen months when covid started, we built thirty three stores

535
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 7: from a base of thirteen that had been built over

536
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 7: five years. It was quite a rapid expansion that gave

537
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,239
Speaker 7: us a lot of market check, gave us scale that

538
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 7: we desperately needed for a brand of the size, and

539
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 7: for an international brand with the quality that is a Starbucks,

540
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 7: you do require a significant amount of overhead, and that

541
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 7: overhead has to get funded one way or the other.

542
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 7: And if you aren't using somebody else's money, you need

543
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 7: a bunch of stores to generate the cash flow to

544
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 7: do that.

545
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: And the scale helped us.

546
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 7: Not only cover that overhead, but get a lot better

547
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 7: seat at the table with our suppliers and stakeholders who

548
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 7: involved the business.

549
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: So that was the key.

550
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: I mean, coffee can sound simple, but I know it's not.

551
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a relatively simple coffee drinker. I'll have

552
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: an Americano with a touch of milk, please, And if

553
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,479
Speaker 3: you don't have the milk, that's fine. But some people,

554
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 3: I mean, it can be incredibly complicated. And I read

555
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: I think there's something like eighty thousand combinations of drinks

556
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 3: that you can get at a Starbucks in South Africa.

557
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if i'd read that right. Frankly, Now

558
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: does that make it difficult to sort of manage? I mean,

559
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 3: you have to make sure you have everything you needed

560
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: every branch and you don't want to have too much

561
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 3: of it in any one place either.

562
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, at Risk have been been called out on us.

563
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 7: I think it's one of the most complex businesses to run.

564
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 7: The number of line items we have to procure, most

565
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 7: of them are imported. In sure the stock levels are correct, training, etc.

566
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 7: Is complex. Now you've got to also explain that to

567
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 7: the customer on the other side, the combination does actually

568
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 7: amount to something like eighty thousand whatever a variation you have.

569
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 7: And when I look at businesses, other business today has

570
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 7: been a great learning ground or for us to learn

571
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 7: how to run a supply chain. We're primarily a limit

572
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 7: logistics business and a front end hospitality business today, it

573
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 7: is a lot that goes into it, and it's months

574
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 7: and months of planning. My procurement team, my logistics team

575
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 7: are outside of the frontline employees that are serving the customer,

576
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 7: the central part of our organization.

577
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 3: It's so interesting. I mean, I sometimes wonder if a

578
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: coffee chain might just make a lot more money by

579
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 3: just being a bit simpler. Yes, you can have a cappuccino,

580
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 3: but not a half whatever. And yet I also know

581
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 3: that over time, I mean, coffee drinkers are becoming like

582
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 3: tea drinkers. They become quite finicky.

583
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the cork coffee offerings.

584
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 7: You sort of con'traperentiate yourself, and you do need labor's expensive,

585
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 7: rents expensive. And yeah, you could simplify your business, but

586
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 7: you're not going to have much in top line because

587
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 7: only so many coffee is a person could drink per day.

588
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 7: So how do you attract the broader audience or customer base?

589
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 7: You need to grow and develop as your menu needs

590
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 7: to change, as the market changes, and the answers of

591
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 7: today certainly don't drink the coffee that you and I

592
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 7: may be drinking.

593
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: Or it's called it's called.

594
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 7: Brew and iced teas and every variation of preppaccino, and

595
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 7: that keeps changing. And the innovation part that Starbucks are

596
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 7: so good at is really differentiated for us.

597
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: So our revenue is generally far higher than any of the.

598
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 7: Coffee competitors that you may reference that they've been brilliant

599
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 7: at what they do, but we've got the cloud of

600
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 7: a very very large machine behind us that can innovate

601
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 7: and stay in touch with what's going on in the market,

602
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 7: and a lot larger scale and anther quality that's pretty

603
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 7: hard for others to replicate, given the logistics function that's

604
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 7: required to procure this and all these ingredients around the world,

605
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 7: meeting global standards that that are on par with the Starbucks.

606
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 3: It's been interesting. I mean, there's a big Reuters report

607
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago about some of the major

608
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 3: problems for Starbucks in the US with their supply chains.

609
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 3: No milk at some stores, not enough food and others

610
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 3: too much food in some places. I mean, I know

611
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 3: you won't necessarily want to comment on the parent company,

612
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 3: but one of the things that I thought was interesting

613
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: was it seemed in the US is a very different

614
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: market to US much much bigger that they basically had

615
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 3: too many suppliers and they should have had sort of

616
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 3: a fewer bigger supplies. Are their lessons and what's happening

617
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: there for here. I've never heard of a supply problem

618
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 3: at Starbucks in South Africa. I have to say, so.

619
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 3: I don't know if we're much easier or if you've

620
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: just kind of got it down pattern some way.

621
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 7: I'd love to say that would be true, but I

622
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 7: tell you, Stephen, we spend night and day trying to

623
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 7: figure out how to get that product through the through

624
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 7: the ports, in on time, making sure it doesn't expire.

625
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 7: It's twelve weeks on the ocean. It's not an easy one,

626
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 7: but it's fundamental to our business. A lot of capitals

627
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 7: tied up in your supply chain. You've got to get

628
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 7: it right, you've got to be consistent. And then we've

629
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 7: got a very very big country. The rest of the

630
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 7: world and including the people we report into, don't realize

631
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 7: how big South Africa is. And logistics between getting tough

632
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 7: on Durbin to health Tang, from Parting down to Cape Town, it's.

633
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: A big effort.

634
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 7: And yes, supplier supply relationships are key and over concentration

635
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 7: into a single supply is very dangerous for your business.

636
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 7: So you also have to think about diversifying there and

637
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 7: making sure you're not like I said, not making sure

638
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 7: you're not too small, because if you're too small and

639
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 7: they decide to turn turn the key on you, you can

640
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 7: really get yourself into trouble. Fortunately, most of our product

641
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 7: comes comes from the parent parent company.

642
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: That does mean.

643
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 7: We've got a lot of a lot of our capital

644
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 7: sitting on the ocean, but they did the procurement and

645
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 7: then we procure from them. We have demand planning side

646
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 7: that we have to get right, and that's making sure

647
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 7: in South Africa, given the variability in the various towns,

648
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 7: that we've got the supply right because we're thinking six

649
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 7: to nine months out every time we place an order.

650
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: So the business of running a coffee shop right as

651
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 3: star back. So I mean, there's some people who I'm

652
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: sure go to you once or twice a day and

653
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 3: they will literally go. They'll have their branch, they will

654
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: probably know I hope they'll know the barista. They will

655
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: just want they order. They might want two or three

656
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 3: for the rest of the office. And if they go

657
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: there are plenty of other people, and I'm guilty of

658
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 3: this from time to time who go into a coffee shop,

659
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 3: have one drink, but linger for hours be meet. I mean,

660
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes you can go into a coffee shop

661
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 3: and come to this person in that person and this

662
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 3: person and that and it's great, but you're not making

663
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 3: much money out of me. How do you sort of

664
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 3: make money when people do linger and you want them

665
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 3: to linger in a way, but you also don't want

666
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 3: them to, you know, use all of your electricity charging

667
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 3: their laptop.

668
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I take a long view on that.

669
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 7: I think the more time people can spend in US store,

670
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 7: become familiar with it, love the brand, love the product,

671
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 7: I think for the long term that boats very well

672
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 7: with us.

673
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: We're privately owned business.

674
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 7: It's me and the few of my friends that I've

675
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 7: got to know me over time as either a somebody

676
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 7: who cycled or.

677
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 2: Worked and wherever I've been. You know, we've got to

678
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 2: make make this thing work.

679
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 7: And I think building their rapport and connection with the

680
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 7: customer is more important. I never like going into a

681
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 7: restaurant and feel and to feel rushed, and I know

682
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 7: why they need does HEAs to turn over?

683
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: But I don't think that.

684
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,919
Speaker 7: Bills longevity and loyalty with your customer, and so yes,

685
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 7: I recognize any Starbucks you go into, in particular the

686
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 7: one in Rosebank or sitting in Sepoint here there's a

687
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 7: playful lot of people sitting using our electricity and spending

688
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 7: time there. But I actually don't mind it at all

689
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 7: because over the time of time they will become long

690
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 7: term customers and that's the ultimate goal.

691
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 3: Adrian Mayzie is your shape shifter of this evenings with

692
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 3: us until eight o'clock. Plenty more to come.

693
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: The Money Show Shape Shifters.

694
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: The CEO of Rand Capital Coffee, Adrian Maize or shape Shifter.

695
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 3: Tonight they held the Starbucks license in South Africa. Adrian,

696
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 3: Who've spoken a lot about coffee, and I have many

697
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 3: more questions. I do want to ask a question or

698
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 3: two about you, if I may, Because you grew up

699
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 3: in Pretoria. You went to the same school as what

700
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 3: was that guy's name? I'm sure you asked that all

701
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:50,479
Speaker 3: the time.

702
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard he went to my school.

703
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, obviously my fault noticing that Elon Musk.

704
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 3: Then you went to the US and you actually went there,

705
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 3: I rate to play tennis. Was that a scholarship. I mean,

706
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 3: I mean that must have been quite an experience. You

707
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 3: would have gone on your own to play a particular

708
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 3: sports and you must have done very well at it.

709
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm the nineteen ninety two Tickiest Tennis Champion and

710
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 7: from there I that was my height of my career.

711
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 7: And then I got a scholarship to go to the

712
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 7: University of Nebraska, where I spent three years playing Division

713
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 7: one tennis. We were the nineteen ninety six Division eight champions.

714
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 7: I was in doubles at number one doubles, and then

715
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 7: I quit and then I went to work for Cooper's

716
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 7: librand de Lloyte Intuitions and private equity hedge Fund and

717
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 7: that was the end of my tennis career. But it

718
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 7: was it's to what I am to the court to

719
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 7: this day. It's how I identify it.

720
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 3: I mean, the idea of going to another bigger country.

721
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 3: It wasn't like now where you could WhatsApp your parents,

722
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 3: you know, where you could you know, be on the

723
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: phone to them every day. I mean, it was a

724
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 3: very different time, the sort of early nineties. What was

725
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 3: that experience like, I mean, you must have learned a

726
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 3: huge amount you'd ever had no one else to rely on.

727
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, and when I talked to my kids, it's,

728
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 7: you know, the story about how hard we had it

729
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 7: as children and compared to how they have it today.

730
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 7: But I left on the second of January nineteenninety three,

731
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 7: went to what is twenty below zero.

732
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 2: No connections.

733
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 7: No Friensis was pre apartheid, end of apartheid, right, so

734
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 7: it wasn't exactly a large connection to the United States.

735
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 7: No Internet, no long distance calling, no What'sapp. I used

736
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 7: to send videos to my mother on a VCR reporter

737
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 7: that I at one point bought, and that came later years,

738
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 7: but otherwise it was postcards. It was very difficult. That

739
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 7: had no network. And I think I went there with

740
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 7: eight hundred rand and everything I owned today comes from

741
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 7: that eight hundred rand, which, by the way, I spent

742
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 7: the first week I got there, but different conversation. But yeah,

743
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 7: I had to form relationships. I couldn't get a job

744
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 7: like I could year or anywhere. Like I watched kids

745
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 7: that they get jobs in America and their parents help

746
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 7: them get jobs. I get people coming to me asking

747
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 7: me to help place them. I don't know which university

748
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 7: to go to. I got three offers to go different schools.

749
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 7: I had no idea what the difference is between one

750
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 7: or the other. And it wasn't like a good just

751
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 7: look it up on the interlet alone on chet GBT.

752
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 7: So it was me and my own. But I figured

753
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 7: it out and it probably made me what I am today.

754
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 7: I was eighteen years old and I had to make

755
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 7: friends and figure out how to just get a driver's license,

756
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 7: how to even figure out where classrooms were.

757
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: So we were all old enough to know what that

758
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: was like. But it certainly made me grow up very quickly.

759
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 3: Was there a drive that you had? I mean, you

760
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: went to Cooper's in Librnder as you say, then you

761
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 3: went from you know, from one business to another business,

762
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 3: and you clearly learned a lot from some of the

763
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 3: people you saw. But you clearly they saw something in

764
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 3: you too, obviously.

765
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know what they saw on me a

766
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,720
Speaker 7: different perspective, but I've always been highly ambitious, but ambitious

767
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 7: from it in security perspective. I always have high desire

768
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 7: to grow up and be something in somebody someday and

769
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 7: I'm still trying to do that.

770
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: And I've always tried to excel at what I'd do.

771
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 7: And I knew that by giving I do my best

772
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 7: every day, I'd be better the next day, if that

773
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 7: makes sense, And certainly putting my best foot forward, I

774
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 7: would impress somebody along the way. And I'd always thought

775
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 7: to be friends with older individuals who are more experienced,

776
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 7: and I learned from them. And it probably was also

777
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 7: because of one of the youngest in my classes. Even

778
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 7: at primary school, at Springvale Primary or Boys, I was

779
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 7: a year younger than most folks, and so I was

780
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 7: surrounded by people with more experience and it sort of

781
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 7: stuck with me all my life. I'm now getting to

782
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 7: a stage where I turn out to be the oldest

783
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 7: in the crowd, which is quite weird. But I did

784
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 7: that and I think that helped me and a lot

785
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 7: of people open doors for me. It didn't come on

786
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 7: my own. Maybe I earned it, but you couldn't get

787
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 7: there on your own.

788
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 3: I mean, there's so much to it. Is there a

789
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 3: particular philosophy or sort of writer that's maybe influenced you.

790
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 3: I've read somewhere Anne Ran perhaps, I mean she influences

791
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: She's influenced quite a few generations of people. I mean,

792
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: would she be one, would there be others.

793
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, and Ran without a Doubt, and Rand Group is

794
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 7: named after Oran Capital is named after and Rand Shrugged

795
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 7: fountain Head. But my former boss, Eddie Lampert is the

796
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 7: one who sort of indoctrinated me into that. Yeah, Elan

797
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 7: inspires the heck out of me. And I sit and

798
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 7: watch his work ethic and his desire and drive, and

799
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 7: that's somebody I'll look up to. Now that's not an author,

800
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 7: but Anne Rand has been certainly the most influential in

801
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 7: my life. And Elon at the moment that someone inspires

802
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 7: me to be better and get up and do something,

803
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,959
Speaker 7: and it's sort of highlighting at this point I'm turning

804
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,479
Speaker 7: fifty two. Short is how much time we have left

805
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 7: and how much time you have to be productive and

806
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 7: get things done. So I'm trying to ramp up my

807
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 7: work ethic and hopefully I'll get enough done in my

808
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 7: lifespan that I can accomplish something.

809
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 3: Adrian Maizie, the founder and seer of Rand Capital collection

810
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 3: the Starbucks licensee in Africa, talking about his journey around

811
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 3: Starbucks fascinating. Seven.

812
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: You are listening to the money shows the best bits.

813
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 3: Your business book review this week. Ian Man, the managing

814
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 3: director of Gateways Business Consultants. Looking into Money by David McWilliams,

815
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 3: talking about how money played a role in making us human.

816
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 5: Probably the most extraordinary book I've read. I cannot remember

817
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 5: since when. Really it's written by an economist. That's not

818
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 5: his fault. Most economists are really very dry. He is,

819
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 5: he can't write a paragraph without being entertaining. What he's

820
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 5: done is he has taken the history of money from

821
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 5: from the from the very beginning when hunter gatherers, we're

822
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 5: using grains as a medium of establishing value which they

823
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 5: could share with other people because it had a value.

824
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 5: We know that two handfuls of this can be equal

825
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,760
Speaker 5: to one of that, and then we saw He leads

826
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 5: that right through up to we we are now with cryptocurrencies.

827
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 5: And his book is built on simply giving you insights

828
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 5: and the most extraordinary things that happened along the way,

829
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 5: and I like to share some of them with you.

830
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 5: So he goes back the very very oldest where if

831
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 5: you take the Somemerians in two thousand BC, they were

832
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 5: there a civilization where they were writing and writing in

833
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 5: their accounting that the legal system that sophisticated financial architecture,

834
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 5: and they were, but the whole thing was anchored by

835
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 5: interest rates. There was a clear interest rate. Everybody in

836
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 5: you were trading was because that was interest rate. But

837
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 5: was the Lydians that developed a coin. Now before them,

838
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 5: the Babylonians always loved gold jewelry. But to say that

839
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 5: this is worth an ounce of gold means that you've

840
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 5: got to be sure that the ounce that your weights

841
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 5: are correct. That's fine. The problem with that is you

842
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 5: can also put a stone in the middle or something

843
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 5: was some dirty in the middle. But once you start

844
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 5: putting in print, printing a coin that's regulated by some

845
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 5: major authority like a country, you know that that's tradeable.

846
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 5: All of a sudden, trade completely completely changed. And that's

847
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 5: what happened with the Lidians. And there they stamped, they stamped,

848
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 5: validated piece of gold was really worth what they said

849
00:42:59,160 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 5: it was.

850
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: The Greeks go.

851
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 5: Then he gets into it takes everything in between that.

852
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 5: Then you get to the Greeks, and the Greeks had

853
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 5: an enormous empire. The only problem was that they they

854
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 5: couldn't feed themselves, so they really needed to trade. And

855
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 5: what they started doing was they they had to import

856
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 5: three quarts and that's amazing had to import three courts

857
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 5: of their food, so they had to have some word

858
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 5: of trading, and they developed a coin and which the drama,

859
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 5: which lasted seven hundred years as the basic as a

860
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 5: basic form of trade. And that made that made them

861
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 5: completely different to anybody else. But that that that coin

862
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 5: actually had other effects. And what he does shows the

863
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 5: effects on humanity and human beings, effect on on on

864
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 5: on money, and how the world evolves from that. The

865
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 5: the in in in in Athens, if you had two

866
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 5: drama and you were a lowly level person, you could

867
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 5: buy exactly the same amount of goods as a princess

868
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 5: with two drama. There was very democratic and very very unusual.

869
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 5: Well then it wasn't like that. Then you move into

870
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 5: places like Florence and everything in between. Right, get to

871
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 5: Florence's most incredible city. Even though it's incredible, it was

872
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 5: an incredible trading city, was probably the greatest trading hub

873
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 5: of its time. And they were structured the way the

874
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 5: structure was unusual. Firstly, they set up guilds, which meant

875
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 5: groups of people got together and by getting together they

876
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 5: could get better prices, they could sell better and their

877
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 5: trade routes literally around the world, and these guilds facilitated

878
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 5: as trade. But more interestingly, the wealthy people there were

879
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 5: very civic minded, and the wealthy people were all built parks,

880
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 5: but not for themselves, huge houses with big parks. They

881
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 5: bought parks for the people. And so he had a

882
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 5: city where which attracted intellectuals, which attracted open thought, and

883
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 5: which actually became an extraordinary, extraordinary city until the Black Plague.

884
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 5: There was an extraordinary, amazing, amazing achievement.

885
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 3: So the idea really is that money currency brings people together,

886
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 3: and brings people together who would not otherwise be together.

887
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 5: Absolutely it has. It has all sorts of effects. One

888
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 5: that brings people to get also allows them to trade

889
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 5: with each other in ways that they couldn't have done otherwise.

890
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 5: And he weaves all sorts of lovely stories together. One

891
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 5: of the stories I enjoyed most was his story about Gutenburg.

892
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 5: We always think of him as printing the Bible, but

893
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 5: Gutenburg was down and out. He was a goldsmith, saying,

894
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 5: you're at craft things. And he realized that I could

895
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 5: make a printing press. And he didn't make a printing

896
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 5: press for books. He went the best person to be

897
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 5: employed by at the time was the church. Because the

898
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 5: Church had the real money. I think they still have

899
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 5: enormous amount, and they they were the one.

900
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: To really work for.

901
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 5: And they were had a really nice scheme you could

902
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 5: get get out of hell free and all that. You

903
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 5: could get out of hell if you if you bought

904
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 5: your way out indulgences. But they were printing writing out

905
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 5: indulgences by and that took too much time. So he

906
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 5: went in and Sot's like to help you guys out,

907
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 5: I can print these things in mass and that made

908
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 5: a huge amount of money for the church. Bolso made

909
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 5: a huge amount of money for him. And you have

910
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 5: all these incredible stories, the the how, how how money

911
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 5: led to something else, and you can see the effect

912
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 5: of the Protestant Revolution was the result of him having

913
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 5: going to business, building printing press and going on. But

914
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 5: the idea of money was used for all sorts of things.

915
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 5: When when the states after the War of Independence, they

916
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 5: had a whole bunch of states who were separate, the

917
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 5: South and the North, and they couldn't come together. They

918
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 5: used money to get people together in a very very

919
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 5: interesting way. They had one the first thing they said,

920
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 5: the central government will take care of all the war

921
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 5: debts for the site. The problem was that they said,

922
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 5: we've just left the Brits. We don't want to we

923
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 5: don't want to be governed by anybody else, and so

924
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 5: we'll give you we'll take care of all your debts,

925
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 5: but we're going to have only one currency called the dollar.

926
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 5: And all of a sudden, every time you took your

927
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 5: money out of your pocket. You remember there was the

928
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 5: United States of America and they had a dollar, and

929
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 5: it was things like that. The money had impact in

930
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 5: other ways that you couldn't have expected it. But we've

931
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 5: also had we've also had we meant to fear the

932
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 5: currencies where where money was based on who said it was.

933
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 5: And in the American dollars is in God we trust,

934
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 5: but it's really in the Fed that we trust. And

935
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 5: the money is a very interesting way of just developing

936
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 5: and growing at extraordinary rates.

937
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 3: And so I said I hadn't finished the book. You

938
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 3: said that that was strange because it's written so well,

939
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 3: and certainly, I mean all of the reviews make that

940
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 3: point about this book too. That's something you would recommend

941
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 3: very strongly.

942
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 5: I would definitely recommend it very strongly. I think that

943
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 5: it leads you not only into what money has done

944
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 5: and what money it can do, but it allows you

945
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 5: to understand what money is, how it moved from dollar

946
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 5: asset based like gold, to where we can have money

947
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 5: that was delinked from from gold and was just based

948
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 5: on the economy. And then we move further and he

949
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 5: ends a book by he was in the Bank of Ireland.

950
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 5: He understands national banks and he asks whether banks control

951
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 5: the money or money controls the central bank. I'll just

952
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 5: give you a quick example. If you want to buy

953
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 5: a house this asset called a house. I'd come and

954
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 5: I go to the bank and I borrow money. They

955
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 5: give me money, So now I have money, but the

956
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 5: bank has an asset called the house. All of a sudden,

957
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 5: the value we've just put the value of a house

958
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 5: just because they're nothing structured into the economy and it

959
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 5: grows like that. You gets some wonderful insights into business,

960
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 5: into the economy and into money. I found it fascinating.

961
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 3: Yeah Man the managing director of Gateways Business Consultants, sharing

962
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 3: his take on the book Money. David McWilliams.

963
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: The best of The Money Show from this week.

964
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 3: You've been listening to the best bits of The Money Show.

965
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 3: Just a digest of some of the most important comment thoughts,

966
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 3: one or two of the best jokes that you heard

967
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 3: on the show this week. If you'd like to hear more,

968
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 3: please go to our website or your podcast app and

969
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 3: search for The Money Show. I really do appreciate you

970
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 3: being with us this week. Thank you so much for that.

971
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: We'll be back with you at six o'clock on Monday.

972
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 3: I really do hope you have a good and a

973
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 3: safe weekend.