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Speaker 1: Seven o two weekend breakfast Psychological Wellness.

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Speaker 2: Dr CORCYGANI, it's eight minutes after nine o'clock, time for

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Speaker 2: us to talk psychological wellness. And this morning we're talking

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Speaker 2: about self awareness and when is too much? When is

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Speaker 2: when can you do too much self awareness? Have too

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Speaker 2: much self awareness? So much so you don't know how

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Speaker 2: to experience your feelings or feel your feelings. And what

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Speaker 2: is I guess the impact of being just a little

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Speaker 2: bit too self aware? We join on the line as

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Speaker 2: always by a resident clinical psychologist, doctor coc GM. Of course,

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Speaker 2: take your course and on one one eight three or

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Speaker 2: seven oh two, yes missus on three on seven oh two,

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Speaker 2: and your WhatsApps on seven two seven o two one

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Speaker 2: seven o two Doctor Janet, A very good morning to you,

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Speaker 2: or is a pleasure to have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: Okay, good morning, Cooks, good.

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Speaker 3: Morning, good morning.

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Speaker 2: So this morning we are talking about self awareness, but

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Speaker 2: what happens when we possibly maybe have just a little

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Speaker 2: bit too much of it or it's the only tool

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Speaker 2: we use to process what we're feeling. So let's start here.

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Speaker 2: Yes see we wanted to make a point.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, Yeah, I'm saying it's it's I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: as I listened to you, how it sounds like quite

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Speaker 1: an ironical discussion to have today one and not the other.

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Speaker 1: But I guess you know, the question of how much

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Speaker 1: is too much? Is the dilemma? And yeah, that is

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Speaker 1: there an answer? Is there a point? And I guess

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Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a continuum, and it's about perspectives,

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Speaker 1: I suppose.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I wanted to start here.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things one of the first things

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Speaker 2: you learn in doing anthropologies, part of what makes humans

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Speaker 2: so special and makes our brain special in a way

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Speaker 2: that other mammals and other animals don't have, is we

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Speaker 2: have the unique ability to reflect on ourselves and referach

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Speaker 2: on our behavior and the behavior of others, which apparently

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Speaker 2: other animals do not have that ability. So self reflection

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Speaker 2: is quite a human superpower. And that feels as if

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Speaker 2: I guess with anything, not enough of it not great,

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Speaker 2: too much of it also not great. And so when

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Speaker 2: we speak about this kind of this reflection awareness, what

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Speaker 2: are we talking about is that mammalian brain stuff? Is

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Speaker 2: that reptilian brain stuff?

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Speaker 1: Yes, well it is if we distinguish between instinct and intuition,

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Speaker 1: where instinct belongs in that optilian brain. It's very survivalist,

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Speaker 1: whereas intuition is very much mammalian, and it is part

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Speaker 1: of that capacity to stand outside of our ourselves, reflect, introspect,

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Speaker 1: and get insight into which is a higher level perspective

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Speaker 1: than you know, the survivalist instinctual knee jerk behaviors that

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Speaker 1: we we engage in whenever we feel threatened. So on

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Speaker 1: a normal under normal circumstances, you know, we want to

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Speaker 1: stay in dialogue, We engage and there's free flow of

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Speaker 1: information and we generally are using that part of the

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Speaker 1: brain that is about homeostasis in the system, and it

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Speaker 1: is about calming ourselves and others because of that reciprocal

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Speaker 1: relationship we have with ourselves and others in our social system,

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Speaker 1: so to speak.

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Speaker 2: Right, So self awareness is part of this kind of

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Speaker 2: because our brain is this interesting thing that's constantly, for

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Speaker 2: the most part time to keep us alive.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of its primary functioning.

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Speaker 2: How do I keep the self of meat that is

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Speaker 2: this human alive? And so we we deploy various tools

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Speaker 2: at different times. So sometimes you know, fight, flight, freeze,

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Speaker 2: or fawn. Sometimes we reflect sometimes as we were talking

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Speaker 2: about a couple of weeks ago. We compartmentalize, We put

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Speaker 2: things in boxes until we feel it's safe to deal

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Speaker 2: with them, or you know whatever, or we try to

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Speaker 2: avoid really big feelings and so, but also that there's

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Speaker 2: a difference between internal self awareness and external self awareness.

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Speaker 4: And then I think the hype themselves definitely, Yeah, and

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Speaker 4: I and I guess it's about how much do we

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Speaker 4: allow ourselves to just be as opposed to doing right?

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Speaker 1: And and it's a it's a very tricky thing to

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Speaker 1: say when you say just be and then people say

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Speaker 1: how do I do that? And so you don't do it?

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Speaker 1: You just be and and it's quite you know, it

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Speaker 1: can be quite a dned prospect to not do and

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Speaker 1: to just be. And I guess it is about how

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Speaker 1: much do we allow ourselves to be and embrace, I

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Speaker 1: guess with compassion the light and shadow of who we are,

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Speaker 1: because I guess it's also about how does who we

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Speaker 1: are impact how we then live with ourselves and with

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Speaker 1: other people. And there is there rub and what is

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Speaker 1: it then take of who we are as social beings

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Speaker 1: and who we are to ourselves in those moments?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so then if we're trying to figure out

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Speaker 2: that we're doing a little bit uh as sort of

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Speaker 2: that too much of the self awareness or hyper awareness.

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Speaker 2: What are some of the things that can indicate to

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Speaker 2: you that maybe that's where you are spending more of

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Speaker 2: your time than you know anywhere else you kind of

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Speaker 2: in this space of hyper awareness. Other things that can

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Speaker 2: give us an indication that that's.

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Speaker 3: Where we are.

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Speaker 1: Well. I guess it is about how much do I

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Speaker 1: allow things to go below the shoulders? How much do

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Speaker 1: I allow myself to feel? You know, there are things

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Speaker 1: that we do expect ourselves as an integrated human system,

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Speaker 1: that we have the intellect which is your shoulders up,

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Speaker 1: and we have the emotions which is low the shoulders,

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Speaker 1: And how much do we live or escape to the

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Speaker 1: same of bypassing the sky.

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Speaker 2: Oh, doctor, it's struggling with your line a little bit,

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Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna pass you back to my producer.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we just need you to move position to us

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Speaker 2: a little bit so the signal can improve if you've

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Speaker 2: just joined us. So we are in our psychological wellness

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Speaker 2: conversation for this morning, and we're talking about a weenes

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Speaker 2: self awareness too much? When can you be doing just

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Speaker 2: a little bit of I guess overthinking about your feelings

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Speaker 2: in particular. You know you're feeling sad or angry or

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Speaker 2: frustrated or whatever it is. But are you feeling those

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Speaker 2: feelings in the same way that you can articulate them?

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Speaker 2: And when are the times you find yourself kind of

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Speaker 2: in that hyper hyper awareness state where you can describe

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Speaker 2: exactly what's happening to you, you can describe what's happening

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Speaker 2: around you, you're prepared for any eventuality, but.

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Speaker 3: You're not really feeling your feelings.

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Speaker 2: So we'd like to hear your experiences, your stories of

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Speaker 2: hyper awareness or too much self awareness maybe, or someone

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Speaker 2: who goes to therapy and your therapist doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: diagnose you. You can diagnose yourself. You can tell your therapist,

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling frustrated, I'm feeling angry and feeling abandoned. This

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Speaker 2: has to do with trauma from my childhood or trauma

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Speaker 2: from I don't know, my first marriage.

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Speaker 3: But you're not feel feeling those feelings.

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Speaker 2: Let us know an O double one eight three seven

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Speaker 2: oh two send us your SMAs is on three one

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Speaker 2: seven oh two. Can also send us a WhatsApp message

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Speaker 2: A seven two seven oh two one seven oh two

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Speaker 2: and let us know your experiences of hyper awareness. Do

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Speaker 2: you think you're a person that thinks a little bit

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Speaker 2: too much about their feelings and spends less time feeling

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Speaker 2: their feelings because you're so in your head about your feelings.

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Speaker 2: We do have a resident clinical psychologist, doctor Kosi. Back

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Speaker 2: on the line, doctor Jane, good morning.

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Speaker 3: Hey, hell, yes we're back.

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Speaker 2: You had a minor technical speed bump, but you were

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Speaker 2: speaking to us about So if we're trying to kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, be aware of what's happening with us, what

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Speaker 2: are some of the things that can indicate or that

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Speaker 2: can suggest that you are in the state of sort

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Speaker 2: of hyper self awareness where you are maybe perhaps thinking

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Speaker 2: your feelings more than feeling your feelings.

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Speaker 1: Oh so, you know, it becomes quite a tricky thing

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Speaker 1: to say, how do we not think about how we think?

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Speaker 1: So that seems as a great Still, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: the intellect of our brains and the emotions right of

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Speaker 1: I guess the heart as we speak, and there are

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Speaker 1: things that we are expected to feel. So if you

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Speaker 1: lose someone you know that was close to you, it

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Speaker 1: is normal and natural for you to feel that briefs,

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Speaker 1: that pain of the loss and I guess there's something

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Speaker 1: to be said when there is something like that and

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Speaker 1: expected emotional reaction and you don't experience that, And it

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Speaker 1: might be at moments to pause and and kind of

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Speaker 1: reflect on what's going on and ask perhaps and I,

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Speaker 1: you know, overthinking this rather than allow it to reach

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Speaker 1: the emotions so that I can feel pets and the

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Speaker 1: intensity of that. And sometimes it is about not at

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Speaker 1: this moment, but that's something. And it is also in

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Speaker 1: a sense okay to say pets im intellectualizing right now,

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Speaker 1: but I also need to let go and allow things

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Speaker 1: to go below the shoulders so that I can experience

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Speaker 1: the visceral reaction to something like that as part of

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Speaker 1: the normal way of being human if we would say that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so if you're finding yourself kind of in

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Speaker 2: that space and you're not one of the things you're

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Speaker 2: not doing is kind of feeling your feelings. In the

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Speaker 2: long term, what is the impact of that. We always

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Speaker 2: hear that, you know, feelings like energy, you can only

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Speaker 2: displace them, can't get rid of them, so you can

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Speaker 2: kind of channel them into something else, or but the

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Speaker 2: feeling itself, you can't make it go away. So even

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Speaker 2: if you're intellectualizing your feelings. I'm feeling a bit anxious,

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling a bit unsure, or I'm feeling a bit

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Speaker 2: unhappy or sad, but you're not actually feeling those feelings.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean for especially because you know your

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Speaker 2: body works with homeostasis, It looks to return things to

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Speaker 2: violence if you're constantly kind of not feeling the feelings

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Speaker 2: but thinking about them acknowledging them. Does it in any

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Speaker 2: way affect us in our internal world in any way?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And I think you're starting a point is a

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Speaker 1: very important one to say. You know, as we say,

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Speaker 1: emotionals is energy. Emotion and energy is energy. You can

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Speaker 1: always transmute that energy in different ways. And as you say,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't go away. The fact that you don't allow

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Speaker 1: yourself to feel it doesn't make it go away as such,

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Speaker 1: an it is that trans transmutation or the alchemy of

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Speaker 1: using it in other ways. So, for example, as saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you turn it into a different way

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Speaker 1: in which you're going to express so, it will perhaps

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Speaker 1: show up in other ways because you have not allowed

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Speaker 1: it to show up in one way, it will then

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Speaker 1: show up in other ways where you least expected and

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Speaker 1: hence you talk about, you know, if you divert those

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Speaker 1: feelings into something else, and they may you know, become

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Speaker 1: in some ways toxic because it will then show up

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Speaker 1: in other situations that are not appropriate, and perhaps that

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Speaker 1: they will often serve as the indication that perhaps have

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Speaker 1: not being honest with myself or allowed myself the luxury

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Speaker 1: and not even luxury, the basics of being human and

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Speaker 1: allowing myself to feel things I should be feeling, and

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Speaker 1: converting and diverting them into something else, then you know,

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Speaker 1: becomes toxic. And it is very often when we have

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Speaker 1: that hit that wall or over the act to things

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Speaker 1: that perhaps gives us an indication that perhaps there's something

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Speaker 1: amiss here, there's some misalignment of things, and that usually

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Speaker 1: serves as the way that we get to find out

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Speaker 1: when we have fitched those those points, so to speak.

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Speaker 2: Right, we've spoken about this before, and you know, you've

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Speaker 2: explained it so beautifully that it's not kind of a

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Speaker 2: constant state or one place, but we've spoken about the

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Speaker 2: idea of psychological safety and why it is such a crucial.

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Speaker 2: It's almost foundational. I think it's second on the pyramid

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Speaker 2: on the hierarchy of needs. It's almost like we can't

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Speaker 2: do all the other stuff to self actualization without it.

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Speaker 2: And could in the same way that you say, you

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Speaker 2: know you can have psychological safety in one area but

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Speaker 2: not have it in another. Could an experience of you know,

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Speaker 2: be being super or hyper aware be an indication of

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Speaker 2: a lack of psychological safety in a particular area, perhaps

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Speaker 2: at work, at home, in your mantic relationship, in your friendships,

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Speaker 2: in your own sort of in your own I guess,

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Speaker 2: internal world. Could it suggest that they saw something happening

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Speaker 2: there as well?

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Speaker 1: Sure? Sure, and I mean it is about to what

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Speaker 1: extent do I then see the misalignment between how I'm

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Speaker 1: behaving and perhaps the circumstances of the time, And that

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Speaker 1: could then say what is happening in this space that

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Speaker 1: perhaps doesn't happen in other spaces. And we could then

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Speaker 1: look at perhaps if you think back to how do

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Speaker 1: you become so hyper aware of yourself?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 1: And perhaps there's something to be said about our social learning,

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Speaker 1: our experiences where something happened or something has been said,

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Speaker 1: and you take that to heart and it becomes such

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Speaker 1: an important part of how you see yourself and interact

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Speaker 1: with yourself and other people. To the point that it

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Speaker 1: doesn't allow you just to be and you second guessing

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Speaker 1: yourself on everything, on almost everything, which then you know,

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Speaker 1: activates that anxiety within the system because none of us

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Speaker 1: can really function in a homeosthetic way. If that's how

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Speaker 1: you know, we're all constantly under the microscope and second

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Speaker 1: giving and checking ourselves it then can you know, make

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Speaker 1: us even more anxious. And while perhaps we may be

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Speaker 1: trying to find a point of homeo spaces, it has

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Speaker 1: the opposite effaith.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting, and you made this point right at the

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Speaker 2: beginning of our conversation that this is this kind of contradiction,

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Speaker 2: this paradox, that here is this thing that if you

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Speaker 2: hear the word self aware, you think, oh, okay, that's

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Speaker 2: a really great tool. I imagine you know, it allows

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Speaker 2: you to stuff, do more, be confident, know you know

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Speaker 2: that you can you know.

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Speaker 3: Do certain things.

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Speaker 2: But actually too much of it can actually then have

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Speaker 2: the completely opposite effects that now you are unsure, you

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Speaker 2: are fearful, you fixate on small details, perhaps you become

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Speaker 2: quite unyielding because you think, well, if we do things differently,

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Speaker 2: it might not work out. And it's so fascinating that

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Speaker 2: with any I guess out the brain and I think

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Speaker 2: the human body.

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Speaker 3: You can have a thing that is intended to help you.

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Speaker 2: It is a tool your body has developed to help

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Speaker 2: you move forward or deal with something, but too much

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Speaker 2: of it, if you're out of balance, it can then

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Speaker 2: have the complete opposite effect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely can, And I guess it is and

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Speaker 1: it's different in different moments. And I guess the beauty

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Speaker 1: of allowing ourselves, you know, to see ourselves as work

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Speaker 1: in progress and not driving for perfection, because then that

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Speaker 1: puts us on a treadmill where we are constantly pushing

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Speaker 1: ourselves and second guessing everything and striving for perfection is

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Speaker 1: the worst form of injustice, you know, to ourselves and others.

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Speaker 1: And it will then have the exact opposite effect of

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Speaker 1: what self awareness is supposed to do, which is about

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Speaker 1: putting ourselves at homeo stations, whereas the opposite will then,

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Speaker 1: you know, you to hyper arousal and hyper vigilance on ourselves,

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Speaker 1: which is not healthy at all.

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Speaker 2: And so if we find ourselves in this space where

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Speaker 2: you are aware, but just a little bit in a

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Speaker 2: way that is no longer serving you, it doesn't help

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Speaker 2: you process things, It doesn't help you you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of live better. It's not a useful tool to become maladaptive.

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Speaker 2: How do you begin to kind of move to a

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Speaker 2: sort of to homeostasis where it is working in your

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Speaker 2: favor because self awareness is a good thing and so

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Speaker 2: you don't want it working against it until it's not.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So how do we get ourselves to that point?

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Speaker 1: And I guess is it's going to take the self

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Speaker 1: reflection and then to say, can I allow myself to

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Speaker 1: be okay with this? And as we would say, sit

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Speaker 1: with it? And that's okay too. To give ourselves the

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Speaker 1: permission to sit with our own imperfection is okay, it's

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Speaker 1: good enough. It's about getting to that place of good

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Speaker 1: enoughness about ourselves and not putting ourselves constantly on that

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Speaker 1: treadmill of striving and working to you know, toward's being

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Speaker 1: imperfect creature, something that will never happen. So being okay

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Speaker 1: with being okay and just this is good enough. This

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Speaker 1: is good enough, and you can knowing that we can

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Speaker 1: always get better and this is good enough too.

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Speaker 2: Received a Waterpoises, seventeen seven oh two, one seven oh two.

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Speaker 5: Hi, good morning doctor, Good morning gooks. This actually reminds

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Speaker 5: me of a girl that I used to go to

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Speaker 5: school with. It was back in high school Lowi's still

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Speaker 5: teenagers at the time, and she was hyper aware. You know,

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Speaker 5: she would offend you and then when you go to her,

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Speaker 5: she'd be like, oh, I've noticed that you stopped talking

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Speaker 5: to me after I said ABC, I've noticed that when

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Speaker 5: I come by, you roll your eyes. And she was

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Speaker 5: extremely hyperer aware. But what I noticed about hYP power

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Speaker 5: aware people, not only hair but just them in general,

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Speaker 5: is that you can't tell them anything. You can't correct them,

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Speaker 5: you can't criticize them because they've got this mentality to

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Speaker 5: all this thing that I am already aware of everything.

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Speaker 5: So you can't correct them, you can't call them out.

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Speaker 5: You just can't get through to them. And it's very

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Speaker 5: frustrating because at the end of the day, we are

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Speaker 5: human beings. You can be self aware, but be open

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Speaker 5: to the fact that they're there are things that people

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Speaker 5: will make you aware of as much as you are aware.

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Speaker 5: I hope I'm making sense.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you very much for that. What's her poison, doctor, Jna?

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Speaker 3: Your thoughts?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I guess that's the that's the challenge

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Speaker 1: of when you then become unavailable, uh, you know, for

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Speaker 1: people to kind of, as he says, to give you feedback,

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Speaker 1: for you to be still enough to listen and hear

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Speaker 1: and take it in and acknowledge, so that people can

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Speaker 1: feel listened to and heard and have their opinions and

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Speaker 1: feelings validated. Because then, as she's saying, you know, it

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Speaker 1: sounds dismissive and invalidating of other people's perspective. When you

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Speaker 1: you have the overall perspective of everything and can't receive

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Speaker 1: from other people it then you know, the give and

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Speaker 1: take of relationships, it then creates a misalignment and and

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Speaker 1: I guess, as she says, you know, it can be

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Speaker 1: a point of frustration for other people and therefore health

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Speaker 1: negative consequences where people can tend to then avoid interacting

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Speaker 1: with you because of that, right, And I guess.

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Speaker 2: Even in that, you know, when you're dealing with someone

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Speaker 2: who says, well, you know, I know I behave in

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Speaker 2: this way and then so they don't need feedback, I

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Speaker 2: think even that again, this kind of this paradox is

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Speaker 2: it feels like a lack of self awareness actually that

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Speaker 2: you make people feel a partecular way. Your behavior has

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Speaker 2: this impact, but you don't want to be corrected on

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Speaker 2: it or guided on it to get feedback on it.

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Speaker 2: It feels a little bit like it goes against the

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Speaker 2: idea of being self aware.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it has the opposite, effaith, and it's that contradiction

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Speaker 1: that striving for it is actually what makes less of

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Speaker 1: it or what creates less of it, and it therefore

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Speaker 1: means you're not available for that social interaction. And that's

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Speaker 1: part of it. Is people that live in their own

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Speaker 1: world too much. And that's what you you know, people

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Speaker 1: would tend to say about people who are an only

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Speaker 1: child because they create their own world and don't don't

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Speaker 1: interact as much as people who have siblings and have

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Speaker 1: that give and take of relationships. And yeah, it then creates,

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Speaker 1: it can create that sense of being an isolated person

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Speaker 1: or where people will then tend to isolate you because

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Speaker 1: it goes against the give and take of social interaction

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Speaker 1: and relationships, which can then I suppose, create more anxiety

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Speaker 1: for you and and and generate even more self awareness

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Speaker 1: to try to be less self aware.

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Speaker 3: To be human. What a fascinating concept. Yeah, what a concept.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, Doctor Tianna, always a great pleasure having you on

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Speaker 2: the show. Thank you so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: My absolute pleasure. Thank you girls.

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Speaker 2: That's our resident clinical psychologist, doctor Cosi