1
00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: Across the Desk with Clemens Mantela on seven O two.

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 2: So now across the Desk feature this morning, I'm hosting

3
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:13,520
Speaker 2: freelancers because it's this traditional idea of work, like a

4
00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:19,480
Speaker 2: nine to five job with one employer, is slowly being rewritten.

5
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,680
Speaker 2: In fact, across the world you've got millions and millions

6
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 2: of professionals that are choosing independence over permanence. They want

7
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:36,280
Speaker 2: flexibility over routine and multiple income streams over a single salary. Right.

8
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,640
Speaker 2: That is the world of freelancing. And even here in

9
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 2: South Africa, freelancing has moved from the margins of the

10
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:51,240
Speaker 2: labor market into the mainstream. From journalists to editors, to designers, developers, photographers, consultants,

11
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,560
Speaker 2: you name it. More and more people are building carriers

12
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,920
Speaker 2: project by project rather than job by job. And in

13
00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,560
Speaker 2: a country grappling where high levels of unemployment, freelancing is

14
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,959
Speaker 2: increasingly seen as both an opportunity and a necessity. And

15
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,839
Speaker 2: I want to know if you are a freelancer yourself,

16
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 2: I'd like you to share your experiences with us. You

17
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,480
Speaker 2: can call us on one one eight day three oh

18
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,960
Speaker 2: seven O two. The what's Up line is seven to

19
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,640
Speaker 2: seven O two one seven two and of course it's

20
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,679
Speaker 2: got its own challenges, right, which is why I've invited

21
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,560
Speaker 2: my guests today to explore the work that they do

22
00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,360
Speaker 2: and how they find freelancing. What's good about it, what's

23
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,400
Speaker 2: bead about it? But I want you to also join

24
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,800
Speaker 2: this conversation, so give us a call or send us

25
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,360
Speaker 2: a what's up voice note? In studio with me, I've

26
00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:45,560
Speaker 2: got Kimberly Mutandiro, who is a freelance journalist joining us

27
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 2: in studio and who's a reputation management and content strategist.

28
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 2: Ubusha and Kimberly, thank you so much for coming through.

29
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 3: Good morning, good morning, thanks morning.

30
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,760
Speaker 2: Thank you for coming. I really appreciate it. I mean,

31
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,880
Speaker 2: it's rainy. Who wants to leave their house and you

32
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,640
Speaker 2: as a freelancers, I'm sure it's a living my house.

33
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,639
Speaker 1: Yesterday I did find myself saying, do I.

34
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:08,320
Speaker 3: Really need to?

35
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,520
Speaker 2: Don't you voice us for this? Please?

36
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,480
Speaker 1: We want It's not a Bible hour we had.

37
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 2: When did you start with? When did you decide that

38
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:19,440
Speaker 2: this is the way I need to go?

39
00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,160
Speaker 4: I think it was I was still full time employed

40
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,560
Speaker 4: and then in twenty sixteen I got a request from

41
00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 4: a family member to help them with a client's cultural

42
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,080
Speaker 4: exchange program of sorts, and they needed something that was

43
00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 4: like a quick pr when low hanging Fruits just organized

44
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 4: interviews for the.

45
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 1: Client and things like that.

46
00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 4: And in doing that, even though I was fully employed

47
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,520
Speaker 4: at the time or full time employed at the time,

48
00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,920
Speaker 4: there was this It gave me this surge of inspiration

49
00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:57,880
Speaker 4: and creativity.

50
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,800
Speaker 1: It was almost as if this, I think, this elusive.

51
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,600
Speaker 4: Thing that you've been chasing, especially when you've been doing

52
00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 4: comms for years. It became like catching lightning and a

53
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 4: bottle where it was this aha moment and I've never

54
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 4: really looked back. I've tried to go back into full

55
00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 4: time employment, but it's not working out, so I find

56
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,680
Speaker 4: the flexing ability that comes with freelancing. So it was

57
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 4: it started out as a favor for a family member

58
00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,400
Speaker 4: and here we are later.

59
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,200
Speaker 2: Ten years later. Yeah, yeah, And for you, Kimberly, when

60
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:35,240
Speaker 2: was that moment.

61
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 5: I started off in twenty fifteen, I can say like

62
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 5: I come from a like broadcasting background, originally from zim

63
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,800
Speaker 5: so I just come here and I was busy looking

64
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,520
Speaker 5: for a job in broadcasting because that's that's what I knew.

65
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,440
Speaker 5: But somewhere, somehow I could not get a job. For

66
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,280
Speaker 5: a very long time I was looking for a job.

67
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 5: I couldn't get a job. And then I even like

68
00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 5: went into volunteering, like doing commun need this stuff. It

69
00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,520
Speaker 5: wasn't working out because there was no money there. So, like,

70
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 5: when I spoke to some colleagues were already into in

71
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,360
Speaker 5: the freelance space, they told me about Sofria, which is

72
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,360
Speaker 5: a freelance organization, and said, you know what, if you

73
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,800
Speaker 5: are to join Sofria, I'm sure you will, you will

74
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 5: find your way around. So in twenty fifteen, that is

75
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,280
Speaker 5: when I joined Sofria, and during the first first outreach

76
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 5: thing that we did, I got somebody, I met somebody

77
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,839
Speaker 5: who introduced me to like who gave me some contracts

78
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,760
Speaker 5: for ground Up News, and then that is when I

79
00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:38,880
Speaker 5: just you know, pitched the story and you know, that's

80
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,280
Speaker 5: how it started off for me. That was like then

81
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,279
Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen, so I started working for freelancing for

82
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,560
Speaker 5: ground Up and then I also I was also looking

83
00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 5: for other jobs on the side. And as time went on,

84
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 5: I mean, like it became a thing and it became

85
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,120
Speaker 5: increasingly difficult for me to say, you know, I'm going

86
00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,400
Speaker 5: to look for a full time job because I loved

87
00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,840
Speaker 5: the flexibility. I loved the multiple income you know streams,

88
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,080
Speaker 5: even though it was like kind of complicated. Sometimes you

89
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 5: don't get work sometimes, but then it's up to you,

90
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,640
Speaker 5: you know, to make sure that you budget enough for

91
00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:11,719
Speaker 5: when you don't get work.

92
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 2: So well any days? Hey, So how does it work?

93
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,880
Speaker 2: Do you guys? Do you go look out for clients?

94
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,520
Speaker 2: I don't know. Do you work with clients a lot?

95
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 2: Do you work with like just like companies that have

96
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,480
Speaker 2: full time employees and you just come in as a

97
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 2: felancer here and there on an ad hoc basis? How

98
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,920
Speaker 2: does it work? And is it your responsibility to find

99
00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,360
Speaker 2: that works?

100
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,200
Speaker 1: It's a bit of both.

101
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:43,080
Speaker 4: So I've got a a selection of corporate clients who've

102
00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,800
Speaker 4: come through to me via previous networks where you're working

103
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 4: directly with the client themselves and not necessarily their marketing department.

104
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,039
Speaker 4: I have a client right now who doesn't have a

105
00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,479
Speaker 4: marketing department, so I'm helping them with something as basicas

106
00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:08,560
Speaker 4: putting together their sei guide, their corporate information brochures, templates,

107
00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,880
Speaker 4: things like that for them to help with their seals

108
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:18,479
Speaker 4: and marketing efforts. And then other clients are agencies where

109
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,760
Speaker 4: it's other creative agencies. I have a friend who reached

110
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 4: out to me. He owns an advertising agency, and they

111
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:31,160
Speaker 4: constantly have clients that are looking for communications, public relations,

112
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,920
Speaker 4: and reputation management services.

113
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 1: So it's a bit of both.

114
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,200
Speaker 4: And there's also clients that come through because they looking

115
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 4: for a boost with their personal brands where they want

116
00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,920
Speaker 4: to establish themselves as personalities or thought leaders in their field,

117
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 4: and also doing that. Most of the time, I can

118
00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:54,080
Speaker 4: say I've been fortunate in the sense that I'm usually

119
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,719
Speaker 4: referred to by previous clients to future clients. Other times

120
00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,839
Speaker 4: I do have to go out and look for that

121
00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 4: and look for that.

122
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,599
Speaker 2: That means you do a good job to other people.

123
00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 2: So do you how do you then sell your services? Like?

124
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 2: Are you mostly on LinkedIn? I mean, you said you

125
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 2: also rely on the federal sometimes, But do you put

126
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 2: up stuff like on LinkedIn? Do you advertise your services

127
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,160
Speaker 2: in some form?

128
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:20,600
Speaker 6: Not?

129
00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,200
Speaker 4: Really, I'm really bad with self promotion. It just feels

130
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 4: a lot to me to actually have an own LinkedIn strategy.

131
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 4: Happy to put it for a client, but I'm so

132
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 4: used to being behind the scenes that usually it's a

133
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,680
Speaker 4: thing of listen, mister so and so, if you do

134
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 4: have a network of people who are looking for similar services,

135
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 4: I'm here.

136
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,920
Speaker 1: And also at times.

137
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,720
Speaker 4: You you do reach out to a network, especially if

138
00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 4: you've made sure that you leave the places you've worked

139
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 4: at or people you've worked with on good terms.

140
00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,440
Speaker 1: So it's always it's always an.

141
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,240
Speaker 4: Opportunity for you to kind of dip back in and

142
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:03,240
Speaker 4: find out what's happening.

143
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kimberly, As a journalist, how do you then sort

144
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 2: of decide to commercialize the work you do? Like do

145
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,520
Speaker 2: you sell pare story or is it more I mean

146
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,800
Speaker 2: a freelancer. Therefore I'm with you, I'm going to cover

147
00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,040
Speaker 2: this particular story for you. This is how much I

148
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,320
Speaker 2: charge or is it more like the more I file

149
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,160
Speaker 2: a story, then I charge you based on that.

150
00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,840
Speaker 5: Well, basically, I suppose freelancing has become like a popular thing,

151
00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,319
Speaker 5: like most news publications with freelancers, So each and every

152
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,960
Speaker 5: publication always has sort of like a criteria like their

153
00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,320
Speaker 5: raids or whatever it is that they offer to their

154
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,720
Speaker 5: reporters or to their freelancers. So like as far as

155
00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,960
Speaker 5: like maybe the publications that I work with, we've got

156
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,200
Speaker 5: sort of like an agreement that you know, what you do.

157
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,160
Speaker 5: These kind of stories, but we pay you for a

158
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 5: paper story. I can see the basically paper story. But

159
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,079
Speaker 5: then if you've got a regular like publication that you're

160
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,520
Speaker 5: working with, so it means that you know, at least

161
00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:04,199
Speaker 5: you can get.

162
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,880
Speaker 3: More work from them at a time.

163
00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,480
Speaker 5: So it becomes more like your cash call because you

164
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,440
Speaker 5: know what you know that you know, if I don't

165
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 5: get work somewhere else else, at least I've got guarantees

166
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,320
Speaker 5: income here. And then I then also just you know,

167
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 5: reach out to any other publications out there that you know,

168
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,360
Speaker 5: look for pitches, and then I sell stories. What then

169
00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,680
Speaker 5: I do is that like over the years, I've learned

170
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,320
Speaker 5: how to pitch, you know, so I then you know,

171
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,280
Speaker 5: pitch stories about any topic. You know, some coo freelancers.

172
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 5: So what you do is that you come up with

173
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,600
Speaker 5: with your pitch, you send it to them if they

174
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,800
Speaker 5: like it, and then they commission you for a story.

175
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,360
Speaker 5: And then there's some people that just reach out to

176
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,560
Speaker 5: you from nowhere out like from the network. It's either

177
00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,960
Speaker 5: via LinkedIn, via you know, any social platforms you know,

178
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,839
Speaker 5: like I've had people reach out to me even on Facebook,

179
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,320
Speaker 5: you know, because you've already got a profile that you've

180
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,720
Speaker 5: built as a person. Maybe they've seen your story somewhere

181
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,040
Speaker 5: and they would like you to work a similar story

182
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,560
Speaker 5: for them. So that is how it works out. You

183
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,440
Speaker 5: can reach out to the publications personally. Sometimes they reach

184
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 5: out to you, but it's basically publications that we work

185
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,920
Speaker 5: with as freelance journalists.

186
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,920
Speaker 2: I see, you've just made me miss pitching stories. I

187
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,199
Speaker 2: used to enjoy that a lot when I was a journalist.

188
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 2: What if it's a big story. I mean, if there's

189
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,840
Speaker 2: a rate that we've agreed to, but I'm bringing, like

190
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,280
Speaker 2: a really big story, can I renegotiate that rate if

191
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,079
Speaker 2: it's like an exclusive that is quite big.

192
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 3: Mostly you can't.

193
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:35,320
Speaker 7: Can't.

194
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,680
Speaker 5: You cannot because even publication tells you that this is

195
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 5: because if we're talking about a really huge story, then

196
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,400
Speaker 5: maybe we're talking about a feature article. So then the

197
00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,320
Speaker 5: publication tells you that we are going to pay you

198
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 5: five thousand for the features.

199
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,160
Speaker 3: You may feel like you need.

200
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 5: You need it to six, seven or ten thousand, but

201
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,199
Speaker 5: then you have to stick to whatever rate you've agreed beforehand.

202
00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,680
Speaker 5: You can't negotiate. I've never had to any publication about,

203
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:03,480
Speaker 5: you know, paying me more.

204
00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,160
Speaker 2: Who decides on your contract, like do you drafted yourself

205
00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,440
Speaker 2: or is it more the company or the clients you

206
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,120
Speaker 2: work with who will say this is how we're going

207
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,360
Speaker 2: to relate with each other. Do you even have input

208
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:20,960
Speaker 2: as to how your relationship is going to be going

209
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,439
Speaker 2: as long as you're with the company.

210
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:23,960
Speaker 1: Yes.

211
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,320
Speaker 4: For me, it's it's always been a collaborative exercise where

212
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,520
Speaker 4: it's even if you especially if you have received a

213
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 4: scope of services, and then you're also able to negotiate

214
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,440
Speaker 4: in terms of who's your primary contact and you put

215
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,400
Speaker 4: that together, and if you do have a challenge with

216
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,760
Speaker 4: a contract, for example, maybe in terms of the time

217
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 4: that's required, because you also don't want to be thinly

218
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,920
Speaker 4: stretched when it comes to this freelancing thing where you

219
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,679
Speaker 4: are suddenly too burnt out to attend to other clients.

220
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,400
Speaker 4: So what usually happens is that you kind of have

221
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,160
Speaker 4: to have a very transparent process to say this is

222
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 4: the contract and these are the parameters.

223
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 1: I am willing to give a.

224
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,760
Speaker 4: Few extra hours to help meet certain dadlines, but for example,

225
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 4: I will not be available on a Friday for anything

226
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,240
Speaker 4: because I've dedicated that to another client or another project

227
00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,520
Speaker 4: I'm working on. Okay, so it's important for those contract

228
00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 4: discussions to be an actual discussion and not just something

229
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 4: you receive that outlines the scope.

230
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,680
Speaker 2: Okay, oh on one eight day three seven two. That's

231
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,600
Speaker 2: the number you can dial if you want to join

232
00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,079
Speaker 2: this conversation or maybe you've got a question for my guests,

233
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 2: the freelancers here in studio are we're talking about the

234
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 2: realities of freelancing. The WhatsApp line is also in two

235
00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,840
Speaker 2: seven two one seven oh two. Are you a freelancer?

236
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 2: Has it been a sustainable path for you? Who thrives

237
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,400
Speaker 2: in this environment and who really struggles? I'd like to

238
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 2: hear what your experience has been. I often wonder Kimberly

239
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 2: if sometimes freelancers have to push themselves hard. Because you

240
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,360
Speaker 2: said earlier there are rainy days, So do you find

241
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,840
Speaker 2: yourself sometimes putting a lot of pressure because you just

242
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,000
Speaker 2: never know when the rainy days are coming? And how

243
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,680
Speaker 2: do you balance that so that you're also not killing

244
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 2: yourself too hard?

245
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 5: Well, it's very, very quite difficult, Like you need to

246
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,319
Speaker 5: push hard. Like if you're freelancing, you do not have

247
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,320
Speaker 5: a guaranteed maybe like like what you call it salary

248
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,040
Speaker 5: at the end of the month, you do not have

249
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,840
Speaker 5: a guaranteed pension or guaranteed anything, even a bonus. You

250
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,800
Speaker 5: don't have anything guaranteed. So most of the times I

251
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,600
Speaker 5: really find myself pushing myself like it extremely very hard,

252
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,080
Speaker 5: you know, because if you don't push yourself hard, then

253
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,640
Speaker 5: you know you can't make that extra money. You know,

254
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,320
Speaker 5: like if you can't do at least more stories, like

255
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 5: in line with the kind of budget that you have

256
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,280
Speaker 5: for the month, then it means that you know you

257
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,800
Speaker 5: won't get you know, you won't meet your goals or

258
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,800
Speaker 5: whatever that you you've got in mind. So really there's

259
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 5: a lot of pushing yourself.

260
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:11,960
Speaker 3: It's true.

261
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 5: I do there are times when I push myself myself

262
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,400
Speaker 5: to the limits. Let's say in December time, you know,

263
00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,760
Speaker 5: towards Christmas years, I don't have a bonus.

264
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 3: What do I do? I just need to do more stories.

265
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,840
Speaker 5: I just need to push to more publications so that

266
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 5: I can, you know, get extra money income guaranteed.

267
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,600
Speaker 2: How do you balance it so that you don't kill yourself?

268
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,640
Speaker 1: It's you know, I'm like listening, I'm thinking.

269
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,560
Speaker 4: The moment December when she said December, I was like, oh,

270
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 4: that's why you find yourself really you you really have

271
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,200
Speaker 4: to work hard because you never know if this project

272
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,040
Speaker 4: is going to either be renewede.

273
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:55,280
Speaker 1: You don't know.

274
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,760
Speaker 4: If even if it's retainer services, they can always just

275
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 4: decide to cancel it. So it's a situation where you're

276
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,440
Speaker 4: in a position where you have to make as much

277
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,160
Speaker 4: money as possible to say for rainy day, but also

278
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 4: money for the day to.

279
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 1: Day as well.

280
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 4: But at the same time, you also have to be

281
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:21,640
Speaker 4: honest about your own capacity, especially with clients, because very

282
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,560
Speaker 4: often I'm pulled in ten different directions and it could

283
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:30,080
Speaker 4: be by different clients. So you also have to be

284
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,000
Speaker 4: honest with yourself to say that I can only do

285
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,000
Speaker 4: this to a certain extent. And because you're not dictated

286
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,520
Speaker 4: by office hours, there are times when your sleep is

287
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,320
Speaker 4: even compromised because you're just pushing yourself. So there needs

288
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 4: to be an element of self discipline. My best friend

289
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,840
Speaker 4: and my sister always reminding me to just rein it

290
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 4: back and you're about to snap. And the thing is

291
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 4: that if you do fall apart, there's no one there

292
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 4: who's going to help pick up the pieces, So you

293
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,920
Speaker 4: have to prioritize that balance.

294
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,480
Speaker 2: So then my question then is why not just do

295
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 2: permanent job? Get because it looks more peaceful.

296
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,000
Speaker 3: So question is are the permanent jobs there? That's one question.

297
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,520
Speaker 5: I did have a period where I was marketing for

298
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,760
Speaker 5: a full time job as well. And then you find

299
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 5: that maybe you're being offered a job in a salary that's,

300
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,640
Speaker 5: you know, actually a little less than what you're getting

301
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,720
Speaker 5: as a free answer, you know. And sometimes when you

302
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,080
Speaker 5: really find that is that really a high paying job,

303
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,080
Speaker 5: you find that you know, you just can't get it.

304
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 5: So that's where the challenges are. You can't be guaranteed

305
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,840
Speaker 5: of going into the full time employment space.

306
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,240
Speaker 2: Well what about benefits, because that's something some people you

307
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,360
Speaker 2: like will use to justify why they want to stay

308
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 2: as permanent employees because you've got like retirement, maybe your

309
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 2: company pays half of your medical aid. So those benefits

310
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 2: are not enough incentives for you to consider going back

311
00:16:58,320 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 2: if the opportunity was there.

312
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,600
Speaker 4: No, the benefits themselves are not enough. I think for me,

313
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:12,000
Speaker 4: it's certainly the pros that come with being a freelancer,

314
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 4: which is that you are always kept on your toes

315
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 4: from a creative level in my world as a as

316
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 4: a creative entrepreneur or a freelancer. So there's there's freedom

317
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 4: of movement. There's freedom of mobility. You can work from

318
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 4: a coffee shop, you can work from anyway. So that

319
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 4: freedom that comes with it is really great. And I

320
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 4: think that when you've been doing it for a long

321
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:44,440
Speaker 4: enough time, you learn to structure the invoices that you're

322
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,440
Speaker 4: putting together into some kind of.

323
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:47,760
Speaker 1: Package that makes sense for you.

324
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,120
Speaker 4: So I can say that in as much as I'm

325
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 4: a freelancer, I do have savings and investments and a

326
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,720
Speaker 4: retirement annuity and all of those things and medicalate. It's

327
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 4: just that because it's not subsidized, it's not a benefit

328
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,639
Speaker 4: to me from a company, I have to work a

329
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 4: little bit harder to make sure that I'm secure in

330
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,639
Speaker 4: certain aspects.

331
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,679
Speaker 2: Sure, all right, let's go to some calls now, in

332
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 2: some what's ups one, one, eight, eight, three or seven

333
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 2: or two. There's some messages coming through as well. I'll

334
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 2: get to them in a moment. Let's start with you,

335
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,080
Speaker 2: Natty in a good morning, very.

336
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 8: Good morning, Clement, and thank you for holding me. And

337
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 8: good morning, Kimber and wonderful hearing your beautiful journey.

338
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a veteran freelancer yourself. What's been your experience, It's.

339
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 8: Been quite good. I left the newsroom in twenty twelve

340
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 8: hours the news that each at at times of that's

341
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:48,160
Speaker 8: what Nique and I just wanted to explore the unlimited

342
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 8: possibilities that freelance brings. Because you're not getting one salary here.

343
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 8: You can go as high as your sleepless nights take you.

344
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,480
Speaker 8: So if it worked out work. I started out with

345
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 8: approach of documenting our electricity company is fifty years of existence,

346
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 8: and that took me about six months. So it was

347
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 8: a good fat paycheck at a time in twenty twelve,

348
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 8: unlike by normal paycheck. So I started off well and

349
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,400
Speaker 8: it's been a obviously, like Obuche and Kimber are saying,

350
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 8: there's there's ups and downs, there's try periods, but if

351
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 8: you say for those rainy days, it becomes an exciting journey.

352
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 8: And I love when she spoke about freedom and mobility.

353
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 8: I mean, those are the things that attract us to freelance.

354
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,440
Speaker 8: We don't want to be stuck up behind the desk.

355
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 8: We want to have the option to work from a

356
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,360
Speaker 8: coffee shop and some days that we all try for freedom.

357
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about labor rights, because sometimes that's what some

358
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 2: freelancers complain about because they also want to enjoy some

359
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,679
Speaker 2: of the rights that are affordered to employees in this country.

360
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, so that's something that the association i'm chairperson of.

361
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 8: I'm a chairperson of a Solid African Freelancers Association. Basically

362
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 8: when it's as formed in nineteen ninety nine, it goes

363
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 8: from just to really advocate for those rights, to advocate

364
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 8: and also paid awareness so that even if you're in freelance,

365
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 8: you are aware of what you deserve and also just

366
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 8: know how to approach it with your clients and and

367
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,439
Speaker 8: sort of if your clients can offer you some of

368
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,400
Speaker 8: those things like or whatever was saying, you don't save

369
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,679
Speaker 8: on your own you create your own medical aid. But

370
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 8: also being a part of an association like ours, you

371
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 8: get to learn from the best practices from those who've

372
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 8: been in the freelance industry for a while. For example,

373
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,160
Speaker 8: at SOFIA, we've got a couple of members who've been

374
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 8: there since the eighties. That's been freelancing freelance journalists since

375
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 8: the eighties. I mean, when you sit or when you

376
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 8: sit and talk to those you're able to go past

377
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 8: your worst day because they say, hey, I've seen worse

378
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,040
Speaker 8: and this is how I got out of it. So

379
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 8: one keeping when it comes to that, labor licens, affiliate

380
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 8: affiliates to an applciation, do peer to peer networking, and

381
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 8: we've got a lot of resources on our website that

382
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 8: speak to what are you all right? What are your

383
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 8: benefits as a freelancer and how can you sort of

384
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 8: structure them with thely your work space and yeah, so

385
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 8: so so that's what you need.

386
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nati, thank you so much. Man. I'm also sharing

387
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 2: your experience with us. It's ten thirty one Across the

388
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 2: Desk with Clement, twenty four minutes before eleven outlog. I'm

389
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 2: hosting freelancers on our Across the Desk featured this morning,

390
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 2: and I'd like to know if you are a freelancer yourself,

391
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 2: how have you found it. We've got Kimberly and Ubuche

392
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 2: in the studio with us who are freelancers. If you've

393
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 2: got a question for them, because maybe it's something you

394
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 2: want to get into and you're just done sure about

395
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 2: certain things. I feel free to call on oh on

396
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 2: one eighty three oh seven oh two or sending what's

397
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 2: up on oh seven two seven O two one seven

398
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 2: oh two. Let's start with a Anissa who's calling us

399
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: from rend font Tea. Good morning, good morning, I'm okay,

400
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 2: I'm okay, you're Are you a freelance Yes, I'm a.

401
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 9: Full Larida, but I, however, do have like a samaning job,

402
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 9: so I only feel like on weekends. Yeah, there is

403
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 9: a lot of full time to round. That's the stability

404
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 9: that comes with the stylites like free Lange is not dontee.

405
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 9: You might not get a part time job for that

406
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 9: specifical chang, which is why I prefer full time, but

407
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 9: also the financial stability that comes with still language help here,

408
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 9: and so I just want to ask you a guests,

409
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 9: how do they go about my never with that, because

410
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 9: what happens is mountains, I have a semanent job, but

411
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 9: then I'm busy freelizing on weekend. I do get text

412
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 9: on my free line. But somewhere, somehow start says that

413
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,959
Speaker 9: this freelance works are actually pushing you to at pocket

414
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 9: certain end of each text here, there's actually to the

415
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 9: amount of money that I have to pay to that

416
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 9: due to the freelance work that I'm doing. So I

417
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,239
Speaker 9: just want to find out from them how do they

418
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 9: go about guide not dating around sub and ensuring that

419
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 9: they do not have a huge text bats at the

420
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 9: end of.

421
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: The tech YEA sure, yeah, And that's that's one tough

422
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: thing about being a freelancer sometimes that's the issues you

423
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 2: have to deal with. How do you guys maneuver that,

424
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 2: sus do you normally have a huge text bill at

425
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 2: the end.

426
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 4: When I first started, I used to also do that.

427
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 4: I had a full time job, and then I was

428
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 4: moving into the freelancing thing over weekends, and I also

429
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 4: struggled with that, Sarzble. I got myself a tax consultant

430
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 4: who's a qualified text practitioner, and she helps me in

431
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 4: terms of navigating that because in terms of getting to

432
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 4: the nitty gritties, I can tell you about the filing

433
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 4: and everything else. But the beast way forward for me

434
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 4: was to bring in someone, particularly around text season, who

435
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 4: would then help me put that together, because I don't

436
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 4: want to be in trouble with that guy.

437
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 2: If you don't, Yeah, nobody wants to be in trouble

438
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: with with that guy, So be getting a Do you

439
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: also use services of the text.

440
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: Yes, yes I do.

441
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 5: I do use them, but normally I haven't really faced

442
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 5: the situation whereby I had a huge text s bill

443
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 5: to deal with. I've actually found the benefits of you know,

444
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 5: texting your your freelance income because you know, there are

445
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 5: times when maybe you might feel tempted sometimes to not

446
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 5: declare your your stuff. But you know, as I started

447
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 5: doing it, I actually realized that, like at the end

448
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 5: of text, yeah, I've got a huge lansom to lum

449
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 5: sum to actually look forward to, so I can say that,

450
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 5: you know, it's part of my income. I know that

451
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 5: I can look forward to my text returns, you know,

452
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 5: in July, because it's guaranteed. Because as a freelancer, I

453
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 5: suppose your income like is not supposed to be text

454
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 5: to the fullest extent that a person who's working full

455
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 5: time is text. So there are some benefits really that

456
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 5: I've seen, you know, through through sars.

457
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 2: Don't you guys miss like the work environment, like the

458
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: work culture, like being coming to work and chatting to people,

459
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: going to have lunch with them, like some gossip in

460
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 2: the office.

461
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 4: Don't you miss that I do my last full time job.

462
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 4: I mean it's such good friends and we still keep

463
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 4: in touch, but I do sometimes miss the gossiping, the

464
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 4: water cooler talk. And also there are times when being

465
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 4: in full time employment, you find yourself banking from your

466
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 4: desk to go sit in the canteen and have a coffee.

467
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 4: I do is that that human that person to person interaction,

468
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 4: And yes, I must say, and I also just at

469
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 4: times I do find myself missing being part of a

470
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 4: team where someone is looking out for you, where you

471
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 4: know that if you need just a day to be

472
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 4: ill or just a day to take a break, there

473
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 4: is someone who's got your back. So that that is

474
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: something that the social aspect of it is definitely something

475
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 4: I miss, and that that team work spirit that comes

476
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: with it.

477
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I definitely do miss it. I do miss it

478
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 5: because you know, like you you rarely like miss like

479
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 5: meet with anyone face to face anyway, like when we

480
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 5: go out to cover stories.

481
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you interrupt with your sources and all that.

482
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 5: But that work culture, I mean, it's something that I

483
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 5: will forever miss. And I suppose that's the reason why

484
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 5: being a part of networks like Soffria, like maybe journalists

485
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 5: WhatsApp groups can also help because sometimes then you get

486
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 5: to rucked with people are in the industry, you know,

487
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 5: talking about the challenges and all that. But you know,

488
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 5: I suppose you cannot substitute it with like working in

489
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 5: a real like a formal work environment, you can't.

490
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 3: It's it's not the same. Yeah.

491
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 2: How about like dealing with delinquent lines you are not paying?

492
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 2: Is that a stress do you? Guys often have to

493
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: deal with that.

494
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 4: It's the worst stress, it really is, because oh, the

495
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 4: delays can be a massive delay and you're.

496
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: Relying on that because you're not a full time employee. Yeah.

497
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's it's and it's and when you are

498
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 4: a freelancer, it's sometimes so easy for clients to kind

499
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 4: of be like, oh, I know our payment run is

500
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 4: on Fridays, but can I just pay it next week Friday?

501
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 4: And you're like no, but it I think for me

502
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 4: as a freelancer, that has possibly been one of the

503
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 4: biggest headaches, just that, like delinquent clients to the extent

504
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 4: that you end up even having title controls around the

505
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 4: payment terms or even doing what many people that I

506
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 4: haven't counter do, which is like a fifty percent payment

507
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 4: upfront once agreements have been reached and things like that.

508
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: So it is quite a like it is, it is

509
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: quite difficult.

510
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, it is definitely, because I've dealt with one or

511
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 5: two clients. I didn't pay it all even up to now,

512
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 5: so it happen is a large it's very frustrating.

513
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: Sure, I can only imagine. Okay, let's go to what's

514
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: the voice notes that's coming seven to seven to one seven.

515
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 7: Or two, Hi, Cerment, you're speaking to juicers. Yeah, ex Clement,

516
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 7: they're freelancers. Why don't they get together and have maybe

517
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 7: a small office and have a central point of coordinating

518
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 7: this whole thing. Consultants do that they're going to pay

519
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 7: part and that ship and.

520
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 3: Andy and they still remain independent.

521
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 7: It's just that now whatever that they're they're doing, it's

522
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 7: centrally many then and yeah, you also have a that

523
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 7: they're part of being in an office, but also have

524
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 7: that freealm of flexibility.

525
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, thank you, Joseph. I wonder how how

526
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: that would increase your costs. I mean, Joseph is saying,

527
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: why don't you come together? Like already you guys belong

528
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: to both of you are part of the South African

529
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: Freelancers Association. Yeah, so like if you guys through that

530
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: organization you come together and you're like, okay, here's an

531
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: office space. But I would imagine you guys must still

532
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: pay I mean individually and contribute towards that office space,

533
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: which is the cost.

534
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 5: Yes to you guys would like to try to cut

535
00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 5: as much as posble.

536
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that may not necessarily work. Here's another the

537
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 2: voice note Morning Clement.

538
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 10: My name is Bartie from Cover. I would like to

539
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 10: know if you can ask one of the freelancers or

540
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 10: those two ladies, what happens in a situation where you

541
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 10: go for a freelance gig and they offer you permanently,

542
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 10: and they offer you that same job permanently, permanently whilst

543
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 10: you wendy for it as a freelancer. Do you take

544
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 10: it or do you state that you can only accept

545
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 10: it as a freelance job.

546
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: What happens? M thank you for that. Has that ever

547
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 2: happened with Liane? Is like I think we would do

548
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: with you being here permanently.

549
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 4: Yes, it's happened to me. And one time I did

550
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: take them up on the offer. I regretted it, yes,

551
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 4: because I didn't think it through. So I was I

552
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 4: was really excited to be part of them, and they've

553
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 4: done like incredible creative work, won so many awards, and

554
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 4: I really wanted to be part of that. Unfortunately, I

555
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 4: stuck around with them long enough to have received a

556
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 4: few of those creative awards.

557
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: But what I've.

558
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 4: Learned is that it's a decision that requires you to

559
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 4: take time because you're not just like, you're not going

560
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 4: to just work with this person or this hasn't been

561
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 4: your only client. So you also have to consider what

562
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 4: is it that you're giving up, and not necessarily from

563
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 4: a financial point of view, but from a flexibility point

564
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 4: of view and availability point of view.

565
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: How much of your time.

566
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 4: Do they really need in order for them to on

567
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 4: making you a full time office. So I've accepted the one.

568
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 4: The other I've turned down because it's the more and

569
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 4: more you do this, the more normal it starts to feel,

570
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 4: and the more you appreciate the fact that there is

571
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 4: an independence around your movements where you get to work

572
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 4: from and also traveling for me has been a big

573
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 4: deal as well. One of the benefits that I've enjoyed

574
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 4: is that I can just book an abn B in

575
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 4: Nisner and use those two weeks to be inspired by

576
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 4: a completely different environment because I'm working on a campaign concept,

577
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 4: for example, So these are the things that come into play.

578
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, would you consider that if I think I would

579
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 5: look at the salary, I've found myself looking at that

580
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 5: quite a lot, because I mean, if the money's worth it,

581
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 5: I might. But the issue is that now there are

582
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 5: times when you feel like you are making more as

583
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 5: a freelancer than you can in a real corporate space.

584
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 5: There's a time when I was in a full time

585
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 5: fellowship for a year. The money was good in everything,

586
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 5: but like the independence, the flexibility also was kind of

587
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 5: also like complicated because you find that you used to

588
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 5: doing things as you as you want go about, you know,

589
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 5: like your your own during your own time, You've got

590
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 5: time allocated for your free personal time, you've got time

591
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 5: allocated for work. But then now when you have to

592
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 5: be in a workspace full time from eight from nine

593
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 5: to five in the evening, like that's really something else.

594
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 5: So I couldn't. I did not survive well in that fellowship.

595
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 5: Of course, they were like prospects of taking a full

596
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 5: time job afterwards, but I felt that it was just

597
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 5: a little bit too much for me and I still

598
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 5: wanted that freedom.

599
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, it's twelve minutes now, before eleven Olo, more

600
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 2: of your calls and what's ups when we return cross

601
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: the desk with seven nine minutes before eleven O clog.

602
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: Let's go to some what's up messages and then we'll

603
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 2: go to some voice notes. Eddington says, high Clement, I'm

604
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 2: a freelancer. I'm an accountant and text practitioner business advisor.

605
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: It all started when our contracts were not renewed. It

606
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: gives me a lot of quality time with my little baby,

607
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: who was born just after I lost my job. Another

608
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: one says slimming. In nineteen ninety five, I left corporate

609
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 2: PR to start as a freelance English teacher, teaching English

610
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: as a foreign and second language. It has many pros

611
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: but also some cons. But I would never go back

612
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: to full time employment. That's Jacques in Ranbeck. And then

613
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 2: another one is a sliming. Freelancing is a good and

614
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: a bad thing. Good because you can determine your time.

615
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: I call it a supermarket type work. You make money

616
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: when opened, you take leave and time off at your

617
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 2: own peril. It's cool, but the text men ain't kind sure,

618
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: so you have to be disciplined enough to know that

619
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: I think I need a break. Yeah, And do you

620
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 2: really take a break or when you're there in Naisena.

621
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: For a week you still opening your laptop.

622
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: Laptop, you are opening your laptop.

623
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 11: It's it's it's awful, but it's it has to be

624
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 11: done because a week off means that you've missed you've

625
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,919
Speaker 11: possibly missed a week's off billing, especially when you've got

626
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 11: that hourly billing system.

627
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 4: But it there does come a time where you have

628
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 4: to Your body tells you your even the circumstances, even

629
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 4: your dynamic with your labt ones, it says to you

630
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 4: that you need to slow.

631
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: Down your brain and you need to take a break.

632
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 4: And I found with me personally that through the years

633
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: and getting used to it, I do know when that

634
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 4: instances well have to just kind of take a break.

635
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: Sure, here's some wts of voice notes that have come

636
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: through Terrange boring morning to listen.

637
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 6: I just want to mention that I was also a

638
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 6: freelancer for a very long time in the entertainment and

639
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 6: film industry, and one of the biggest problems that we've

640
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 6: see encounter was trying to get affordable health cover of

641
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 6: some sort, whether it was health insurance, you know, medical aid.

642
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: You can't get discounted.

643
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 6: But as a result, I've been in the financial services

644
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 6: sector since twenty twenty two, and we've just managed to

645
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 6: put a to launch an association. It's called the Plain

646
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 6: Symbol Association, and we've managed to negotiate with the leading

647
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 6: health provider that any members who of the association we

648
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 6: can give access to group rates on health insurance, which

649
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 6: is about a fifty percent saving on your monthly premiums.

650
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 6: It's quite a breakthrough, and perhaps you just wanted to

651
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 6: mention that on the show because.

652
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 2: It is something that people still struggle with. Wow, that's

653
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 2: quite what the Plain Symbol Association. Yeah, you can just

654
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: go check it out if this is something you want

655
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 2: to explore. But that sounds really really fascinating. Thanks for that.

656
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 12: Good morning, seven or two lands. Being a freelancer, it's

657
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 12: not a nice thing. Nobody really respects you, you know,

658
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 12: even the text men. You know, they think that you're

659
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 12: making more.

660
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 6: You're not.

661
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 12: People are not paying us around you know, and the

662
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 12: text men also it takes a lot of money from you,

663
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 12: which is really really, really really unfair.

664
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, some people are, yeah, but they're raising

665
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 2: legitimate things. We spoke about text and how that can

666
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 2: be an issue. Let me read a message here from

667
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 2: is a job who says good morning, Clement. It's always

668
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: a bad idea to get solid by your client as

669
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: a full time employee after a freelance skills development facilitator.

670
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: I've seen some of the best ideas for this country

671
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: die april ventable death, simply because the money of our

672
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: was good enough. Corporate push bottom line values which are

673
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: always in the interest of shareholders. The best inventions in

674
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 2: the world have come from freelancers. I think about all

675
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 2: the stuff you see around you. Big business just produces

676
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 2: already pioneered concepts. Oh that is true. Eh, yeah, that

677
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 2: is so true. That is really, really, really true. So

678
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 2: someone wanted to know, what would you say is the

679
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: best thing about being a freelance sign What would you

680
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: say is the worst thing about being a freelancer. Let's

681
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: start with you, Kimber.

682
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 5: I can say the multiple income streams. I mean, there

683
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 5: are times when you can make maybe more than five

684
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 5: times than what you would like your normal job. But

685
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 5: then there are those times when you know you're not

686
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 5: getting much that much work, and then you know it

687
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 5: becomes quite difficult to navigate, you know, things. So I

688
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 5: can say that the multiple income streams, like that's very

689
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 5: that's an advantage, and also the time, the flexibility, the

690
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 5: fact that you can do work at your time and

691
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 5: you know you're able to unlocate your own time in

692
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 5: terms of work, in terms of leisure. And then the

693
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 5: disadvantage thing is that you know when you're not getting

694
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 5: when the money is not coming in.

695
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 3: That's where the problem is really.

696
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 4: Definitely, I'd agree with Kimberlit's the multiple income streams. It's

697
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 4: it's always great the flexibility as well. For me, I've

698
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 4: found it's made my life so much easier from a

699
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 4: work life integration point of view. I don't I'm like guys,

700
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 4: work life balances not really the thing, but I found

701
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 4: that it becomes easier for me to integrate the demands

702
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 4: of my freelance career with what life.

703
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: Expects of me.

704
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 4: For example, today i can work from home because I've

705
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 4: got my knees for the day, so I'm doing the

706
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 4: driving around and everything else, and I'm all so available

707
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 4: to be there for my loved ones, which is something

708
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:09,240
Speaker 4: that's aligned to my values. The downside is that even

709
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 4: with retainer clients, where you know for a fact that

710
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 4: at the end of the month you're going to be

711
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 4: paid a certain amount they can delay those payments. The

712
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 4: instability does give you sleepless nights, but there is this

713
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 4: amazing thing that happens. From a creativity point of view.

714
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 4: I am not bound by red tape that you find

715
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 4: in corporates, which is what the message said, and I

716
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 4: get to have the space to be flexible and innovative

717
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 4: with the solves I come up with from a writing

718
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 4: and a creative point of view.

719
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 2: Kimmie and Busha, thank you so much for coming through

720
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 2: to share your experiences with us. Really appreciated you.

721
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

722
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: Almost next time we book you for an hour, will

723
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 2: we'll pay you. Yes,