1
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,920
Speaker 1: Weekend Breakfast with Sarah Jane, Margui Lekim. We all have

2
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: a voice, use yours.

3
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 2: Called to one double four to six, five, six seven,

4
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,800
Speaker 2: Join the conversation on Cave Talk.

5
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,800
Speaker 1: All right. Petrol prices, of course, expected to surge again

6
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, putting pressure on already stretched budgets. But for

7
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,720
Speaker 1: many of us it's not just about the numbers. It's

8
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:35,720
Speaker 1: also emotional. It brings up anxiety, fear, and for some

9
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,919
Speaker 1: of us, past financial trauma. Absolutely thrilled to welcome back

10
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 1: to the show, Vanguilett maguaguire, who's a financial wellness coach

11
00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,200
Speaker 1: and money coach, money trauma coach who helps people heal

12
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,720
Speaker 1: their relationships with money, and she's going to help us

13
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:58,200
Speaker 1: guide us through how we can navigate this period without spiraling, essentially, Vagilli, welcome,

14
00:00:58,240 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 1: good to have you back on the show.

15
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,119
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me back. Sir Jane, how are you.

16
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very well. I'm very well. I was thinking

17
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 1: about this, that the petrol prices, and you know, it's

18
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,280
Speaker 1: a conversation that we've been having a lot on this

19
00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 1: show on the station. Obviously exacerbated by the situation in

20
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 1: the Gulf region at the moment. And I also saw

21
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,480
Speaker 1: something on social media the other day a guy that

22
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,039
Speaker 1: I follow who's quite funny. He's quite sort of you know,

23
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,040
Speaker 1: does these little social media posts, quite witty. But he

24
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:31,840
Speaker 1: was saying and it was he was so saying it

25
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,400
Speaker 1: quite tongue in cheek, but he was saying, you know,

26
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 1: regardless of what the price is at the pumps, I'm

27
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 1: still putting the petrol in the car. You can tell

28
00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 1: me how much. You know, petrol prices are going up

29
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,039
Speaker 1: and diesels going up, but it makes no difference. And

30
00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,280
Speaker 1: he wasn't saying he makes no difference because you know,

31
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 1: he's a millionaire. He was saying that needs must the

32
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 1: petrol has to go in the car because the car

33
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 1: needs to go because I need to get from A

34
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 1: to B. And I really related to that and at

35
00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 1: the same but at the same time, I am also

36
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:05,280
Speaker 1: thinking about how this is going to impact me and

37
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,880
Speaker 1: the changes that I'm going to have to make, because

38
00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 1: the change for me can't be that I don't use

39
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,120
Speaker 1: my car because I need it. I need it to

40
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,520
Speaker 1: get to work, I need it to move my kids around.

41
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 2: And that just the overall.

42
00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,480
Speaker 1: Financial anxiety that it brings hits me in places because

43
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,200
Speaker 1: I've got my own financial trauma about, you know, a

44
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:31,680
Speaker 1: lack of and having to being the provider, you know,

45
00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,520
Speaker 1: because my parent alone, and so that is that's where

46
00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,760
Speaker 1: my stuff comes up. Let's talk a little bit about

47
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,520
Speaker 1: and remind people what we're talking about when we talk

48
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,120
Speaker 1: about money trauma. Explain what that is and why moments

49
00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,760
Speaker 1: like this can trigger it so strongly.

50
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 2: So many trauma. Firstly, let me just explain what trauma is, right,

51
00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:01,520
Speaker 2: So I keep explaining that because I think people keep

52
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,000
Speaker 2: forgetting all of us have some kind of trauma in life,

53
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,080
Speaker 2: and all of us have money trauma. So it's not

54
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,679
Speaker 2: like for the you or for the many, or that

55
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,000
Speaker 2: the one percent don't have it. We all have money trauma,

56
00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,480
Speaker 2: and it is all triggered by different events. So the

57
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 2: definition of trauma is anything that leaves you feeling powerless,

58
00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,120
Speaker 2: or anything that happens too fast for you to be

59
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 2: able to process, or anything that leaves you in flight

60
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:44,000
Speaker 2: freeze or people pleasing mode, you know, or just makes

61
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,480
Speaker 2: you want to run away. So most of us are

62
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 2: in this, We've all experienced that. So when certain events

63
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 2: happen in this moment, when certain events happen around the

64
00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,240
Speaker 2: world that leave us feeling power like I am powerless

65
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:07,400
Speaker 2: against global economics. We most of us are right, ninety

66
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,360
Speaker 2: nine percent of the world is and things are just

67
00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 2: happening out of our control. We can be triggered in

68
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,480
Speaker 2: different ways. Also, money trauma is also impacted by how

69
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 2: others around us behave As economics are unfolding, so people

70
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,800
Speaker 2: in your immediate sphere their behaviors may change, which may

71
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 2: then trigger you and leave you feeling in a certain

72
00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,720
Speaker 2: type of way, which would then have you spiral and

73
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,000
Speaker 2: make it harder for you to stay on track financially,

74
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,400
Speaker 2: make it harder for you to keep spending in a

75
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,080
Speaker 2: way that feels good in your body. May even impact

76
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,280
Speaker 2: your ability to make money because it may leave you

77
00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:58,360
Speaker 2: in freeze mode. A very typical example would be what's

78
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 2: happening right now? As people go like, oh, there's no money,

79
00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,280
Speaker 2: there's no money. A lot of entrepreneurs may start to

80
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 2: underprice their products and services, knowing for a while that

81
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,640
Speaker 2: even if they're pricing at a certain point, if they

82
00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,640
Speaker 2: price below a certain point, they won't be able to deliver.

83
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,599
Speaker 2: But they're being driven by the fear that no one

84
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,680
Speaker 2: will buy. I won't have enough money, so they find

85
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,720
Speaker 2: themselves in this what I call like the rush to

86
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,839
Speaker 2: the bottom. You know, you're constantly underprising, underprising, so you

87
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 2: never have enough money. You have that feeling of never

88
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,320
Speaker 2: having enough money, but you keep underprising because you believe

89
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 2: that like actually, other people also don't have enough money.

90
00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,200
Speaker 2: So the only way to make more money is to

91
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,920
Speaker 2: price less, price less until your quality gets impacted. The

92
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,440
Speaker 2: quality of your products and services gets impacted, and then

93
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,520
Speaker 2: you lose clients and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

94
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,880
Speaker 2: that you don't have enough money. You know. So, money

95
00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 2: trauma plays out in a way that's it starts off

96
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 2: as an event that triggers us at a nervous system level.

97
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,559
Speaker 2: We may not even aware be aware that it's happening

98
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 2: at a nervous system level. It plays out as a story.

99
00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,600
Speaker 2: Then we start behaving in a particular manner with money

100
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,320
Speaker 2: and it becomes a solf. Then the story becomes that

101
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:22,800
Speaker 2: self fulfilling prophecy.

102
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating. If you're just joining us this morning,

103
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 1: we welcome back to the show. Vangila Maguagua, a money

104
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,320
Speaker 1: trauma coach and author who helps people heal their relationship

105
00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 1: with money. We wanted to bring Vanguille onto the show

106
00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,039
Speaker 1: ahead of the petrol price hike, which is due to

107
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,800
Speaker 1: come into play on Wednesday on the first of April,

108
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,960
Speaker 1: just to deal with, or help you deal if you're

109
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,800
Speaker 1: somebody who's relating to what Vanguillier is saying about that

110
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,359
Speaker 1: money trauma, to help kind of talk you through it.

111
00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 1: You say that trauma gets activated most during uncertainty and

112
00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 1: not stability. So what happens when we come up with

113
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 1: a sort of an economic shock or fright or situation

114
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,000
Speaker 1: like this, what actually happens?

115
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,000
Speaker 2: So before we even get into the macro event, we

116
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 2: need to understand what's happening at the micro level. Most

117
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,760
Speaker 2: of us grew up in households where money was uncertain

118
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,880
Speaker 2: and sometimes where the actual events in the household themselves

119
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 2: were uncertain. So as a result, as a child, you

120
00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:41,120
Speaker 2: learned to cope with uncertainty in different ways. Right, So

121
00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 2: in my book WAT Your Money Personality, I talk about

122
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 2: all the different coping mechanisms when it comes to trauma.

123
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 2: For example, some of us ran away from home. Some

124
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 2: of it was me right like ours a runaway child,

125
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,680
Speaker 2: because I didn't know how to deal with uncertainty. I

126
00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:04,240
Speaker 2: didn't know how to deal with emotional volatility or any

127
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 2: kind of underlying tension that I sensed at home. Some

128
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 2: people learn to just play the good goal, just be

129
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 2: very very nice. Oh my gosh, I'm not going to

130
00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,760
Speaker 2: disturb the piece. If I have no needs, no desires,

131
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,040
Speaker 2: I don't ask for anything, then nobody at home would

132
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,400
Speaker 2: get upset, and maybe we would still be able to

133
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,280
Speaker 2: have enough money and important to realize that it's never

134
00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,240
Speaker 2: about the money. So some of us, this is not

135
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,880
Speaker 2: how you just learned how to cope with money. It's

136
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:43,160
Speaker 2: how you learned how to cope with uncertainty in your household,

137
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,200
Speaker 2: how you learned how to cope with tense events, with tension,

138
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:52,440
Speaker 2: with parents fighting, relatives not speaking anything. As a child,

139
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,080
Speaker 2: you had to learn how to deal with that, and

140
00:08:55,240 --> 00:09:00,800
Speaker 2: your nervous system internalize those coping mechanisms. Only that you

141
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,320
Speaker 2: also observed what your mom and your dad did to cope,

142
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,480
Speaker 2: and you probably then took on those coping mechanisms. So

143
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:13,640
Speaker 2: some people, unfortunately learn to cope with uncertainty and tension

144
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 2: by drinking, because that's what they saw the adults around

145
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,920
Speaker 2: them do. Some people learned to check out completely to

146
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 2: pretend it's just not happening. You know, you watch television,

147
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,080
Speaker 2: you go out with friends, you just completely ignore. So

148
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,960
Speaker 2: maybe you so now you tell yourself, I just have

149
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,880
Speaker 2: to think positive. This isn't going to affect me, you know.

150
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,920
Speaker 2: So some people learn to go into anger, right so,

151
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 2: these are many, many different coping mechanisms. People learned how

152
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,320
Speaker 2: to be angry to fight everything. So you're a fighter,

153
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,080
Speaker 2: you're warrior. You never take a time you never take

154
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,040
Speaker 2: time off. You're the strong woman or the strong man.

155
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 2: You just don't take any downtime. You don't feel anything.

156
00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,280
Speaker 2: Those are all hoping mechanisms. You know. Other people learn

157
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,360
Speaker 2: to take control of the situation and it looks good

158
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,480
Speaker 2: on paper, you know, because the situation is happening. You

159
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,880
Speaker 2: take control of it, and then you look after everybody

160
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:19,080
Speaker 2: and you take on more responsibilities than actually needed. You're

161
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:24,440
Speaker 2: looking after grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles, aunts, cousins. You're the one

162
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,800
Speaker 2: that is a go to person. But then you end

163
00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,320
Speaker 2: up feeling lonely and drowning. But yes, you're in control.

164
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,199
Speaker 2: You're getting everyone out of this. So these are many

165
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:39,960
Speaker 2: different coping mechanisms. Right now, when uncertainty happens at a

166
00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:46,640
Speaker 2: macro level. You have spent years, decades, even every single

167
00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:52,360
Speaker 2: day like your nervous system has been reinforcing these coping

168
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 2: and survival mechanisms. This is how you learn to deal

169
00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,199
Speaker 2: with trauma from a young age within your family. Now

170
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:08,559
Speaker 2: as a result, as a as a macroeconomic events unfold you.

171
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,320
Speaker 2: An uncertainty is happening on a global level. You're going

172
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,280
Speaker 2: to do that unconsciously when it comes to money as well.

173
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,320
Speaker 2: So all this is happening. So if you're someone that

174
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,680
Speaker 2: has learned that when things are uncertain or any kind

175
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 2: of tension arises, you run towards alcohol, chances are your

176
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,360
Speaker 2: drinking will start to increase. You may not even be

177
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,600
Speaker 2: aware of it. So maybe you learn to run to

178
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 2: friends and parties. You may automatically find yourself going out

179
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,800
Speaker 2: more and it could be like, what is happening with me?

180
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 2: That's just your coping mechanism. You don't really it may

181
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 2: feel like you're not being impacted by this. Oh well,

182
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,760
Speaker 2: it's just things need to go on. You just continue.

183
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 2: But you small things are starting to show up in

184
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 2: your everyday life and that may not seem like it

185
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,800
Speaker 2: impacts your finances, but it does. So I'm going to

186
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,400
Speaker 2: go through all the different coping mechanisms quickly and share

187
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,280
Speaker 2: how they type your finance. Yeah, because I talk about

188
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,440
Speaker 2: that in the book and what that looks like in

189
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,959
Speaker 2: terms of symptoms. So if you learn to run away

190
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,560
Speaker 2: from your problems, either through alcohol or physically running away

191
00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 2: your parties, you're never looking at your bank account because

192
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,840
Speaker 2: while it's stressful to think about these things, and I'm

193
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 2: not in the mood to get stressed, so let's just

194
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,920
Speaker 2: pretend it's not happening. Meanwhile, you're accumulating more debt, you're

195
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,440
Speaker 2: falling behind on many things. And listen, no shade to

196
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,319
Speaker 2: people like that, because I sometimes get like that because

197
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,839
Speaker 2: that is my natural I talk about it in the book.

198
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 2: That's my main archetype is just to be like, you know,

199
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 2: I'm not even going to respond to this. I'm just

200
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,760
Speaker 2: going to pretend it's not happening. I'm going to do

201
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,720
Speaker 2: something else and just have fun because this is not

202
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,480
Speaker 2: for me to deal with. But at some point you

203
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,960
Speaker 2: have to deal with it, or debt collectors deal with

204
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,640
Speaker 2: it for you, you know, and it becomes a problem if

205
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 2: you're the one that took control of everything, right in

206
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 2: the book, I call these the fixer archetypes. You there

207
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,400
Speaker 2: really get into debt. You do everything to make sure

208
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,240
Speaker 2: that others are taken care of. What you end up

209
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:28,000
Speaker 2: doing is you take control of people's lives. So this

210
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,200
Speaker 2: is completely different from the people pleaser. Very important to

211
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 2: note because this is a different archetype and it's a

212
00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,520
Speaker 2: different way of coping. The person that takes control is

213
00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:45,080
Speaker 2: a person that goes I don't want your problems to

214
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 2: become my problems. But also we are so intertwined that

215
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,120
Speaker 2: you are so bad at handling your life. I know

216
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,760
Speaker 2: how to handle it better, and I can see that

217
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,120
Speaker 2: you're not going to get a handle on this. I'm

218
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 2: gonna take control of this. I'm gonna take control of

219
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,800
Speaker 2: your finances. I'm gonna pay for things. I'm gonna do this,

220
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 2: but in return, you're gonna obey me. And that means

221
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:15,200
Speaker 2: that you struggle with having a relationship with other people, right,

222
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 2: so the whole family. Yes, you've taken control of everyone's finances,

223
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 2: but the more uncertainty arises, the more control you have.

224
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,200
Speaker 2: And it almost feels like people feel like you are

225
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,760
Speaker 2: a dictator. They cannot stand you. But you are taking

226
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,600
Speaker 2: care of everybody, So they don't want to be.

227
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,040
Speaker 1: In what's the payoff for that archetype?

228
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:37,720
Speaker 2: Thank you la?

229
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,200
Speaker 1: What's the Because we do things like this in patterns

230
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,240
Speaker 1: because there is an emotional psychological sort of payoff at

231
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,240
Speaker 1: a level of for us, what's the payoff for that archetype?

232
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,080
Speaker 2: Okay? So this archetype is obviously one of my biggest

233
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,800
Speaker 2: triggers because it's the opposite of my other primary archetype.

234
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,880
Speaker 2: Like the payoff of this archetype is that they don't

235
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,080
Speaker 2: get to deal. They don't get to sit and observe

236
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:12,320
Speaker 2: other people's turmoil. They get in a piece by others

237
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,800
Speaker 2: not having to be in turmoil.

238
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 1: So they blooded in codependence. This is rooted in codependence.

239
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 1: As long as you're okay, I'll be okay. So let

240
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: me make sure you're okay and then I'll be okay.

241
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 1: They can't just sit back and say, oh, you're having

242
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,320
Speaker 1: an absolute meltdown over there, and that's not my that

243
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 1: doesn't have my name on it. I need to be

244
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:32,080
Speaker 1: in control of that.

245
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,040
Speaker 2: Yes, So if you're if you're not having a meltdown,

246
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,960
Speaker 2: it can't lead into me. So it comes from their

247
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,720
Speaker 2: deepest trauma comes from feeling powerless is turned. So if

248
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 2: you want to know if you are this archetype, most often,

249
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,960
Speaker 2: like I talk about this archetype, like I have a

250
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 2: cousin who was copaying her own school fees in high

251
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 2: school as a child and was running a full business.

252
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,600
Speaker 2: I have talked to people with this archetype, like one

253
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:08,800
Speaker 2: bought a car for her parents in South Africa at sixteen.

254
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,360
Speaker 2: You know she made enough money. So this archetype isn't

255
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,720
Speaker 2: an archetype that doesn't understand money. They have a way

256
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 2: of making money. They've built the family home, they bought

257
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 2: things at a very young age, at ages where we're like, wow,

258
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,720
Speaker 2: I was still trying to figure myself out. By the

259
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 2: time they were twenty, they had sorted. In their twenties,

260
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 2: they had sorted out the family and they had started

261
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 2: taking control of everything. Why because it's like family turmoil

262
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,320
Speaker 2: impacts my emotional wellbeing and I need to be at peace,

263
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 2: so you need to be okay. But the throw with

264
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 2: that is obviously people are sorted. The con of that

265
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,240
Speaker 2: is that you are living other people's lives. You're living

266
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 2: your life and their lives and they feel it, and

267
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:02,800
Speaker 2: you are in absolute control of everything. So that is huge, right,

268
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 2: and then the other one is you people please. So

269
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,840
Speaker 2: this archetype is very interesting. So if you learn to

270
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,199
Speaker 2: deal with uncertainty by just doing what you were told,

271
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:19,800
Speaker 2: being the good goal, challenges is in the world that

272
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,919
Speaker 2: we are living in today, economics, geopolitics, everything is changing

273
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,719
Speaker 2: at such a fast pace. But if your trauma is

274
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 2: I am the good goal, I did exactly what I

275
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 2: was told, or I was the good guy, I did

276
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,359
Speaker 2: exactly as I was told. What do you do in

277
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,280
Speaker 2: such situations? You do exactly what you were taught to

278
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,840
Speaker 2: do to survive. You become even bitter at that. But

279
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,480
Speaker 2: the economics that we live in right now require us

280
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:55,560
Speaker 2: to literally break break away from the norm and to

281
00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:01,000
Speaker 2: start innovating and thinking differently. So when you are that

282
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,640
Speaker 2: particular archetype, you literally don't understand why you're doing everything right,

283
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,120
Speaker 2: but you still never have enough money. You're more likely

284
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 2: to never have enough money all of these things because

285
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 2: and to always be in debt one because you don't

286
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,440
Speaker 2: know how to say no. So you still look after

287
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,439
Speaker 2: family members. But unlike the previous archetype, you don't have

288
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,640
Speaker 2: the innovation spirit to go with it. You don't have

289
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,399
Speaker 2: the energy to go with it, so you end up

290
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 2: getting into debt. You're not creating extra streams of income.

291
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,600
Speaker 2: You're just going You're just doing what society taught you

292
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 2: to do in order to make money and to survive.

293
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,879
Speaker 2: Because remember you're the good goal. You're going to do

294
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,879
Speaker 2: what's expected and you're going to do it to the

295
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 2: best of your abilities. But the other archetype that I

296
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 2: mentioned doesn't do that. They are going to do whatever.

297
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,880
Speaker 2: They are going to grow, They're going to innovate, They're

298
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,360
Speaker 2: going to find out other ways to make money. And

299
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 2: that's the big difference. If you are in people pleasing mode,

300
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 2: even the way that you make money is around people pleasing,

301
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,239
Speaker 2: so you will struggle very very deeply with it. So

302
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 2: the more uncertainty there is, the more you do what

303
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 2: is expected of you, what you were taught by society,

304
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 2: So your income is still stignating. But at the same

305
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 2: time you struggle with boundaries because remember your people pleasing,

306
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 2: so you're going to end up giving a lot of

307
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,159
Speaker 2: your money to help family members and friends, which brings

308
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 2: you even into modit And I think, honestly, this is

309
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,360
Speaker 2: the one architect for me that I work a lot

310
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 2: with and a lot of people are in this boat

311
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 2: and they struggle most with this. So you're drowning, but

312
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,120
Speaker 2: you don't know how to get out of this drowning

313
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 2: because you're not able to think beyond what society has

314
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 2: taught you around making money. Thank you.

315
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 1: I want to bring that to sorry, I just I

316
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: want to bring it back to to the petrol the

317
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 1: petrol situation, and we're seeing in parts of the world

318
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,439
Speaker 1: that sort of panic spending, that people are filling up

319
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 1: the tanks already, they're going into that panic mode. We

320
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 1: saw a similar thing when we went into COVID. What's

321
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 1: being activated in those people that thing of need to

322
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 1: get it now, need to stock coming and there's only

323
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 1: so much that you can stock up on petrol. Your

324
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: tank can only be filled to such a limit. What's

325
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 1: going talk us through that mentality in that mindset?

326
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 2: Who so I know the things that I find interesting

327
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 2: by observing this is how this is happening in certain countries.

328
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 2: And it's also about understanding the history of different countries, right,

329
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,679
Speaker 2: and how different histories impact us differently. But at the

330
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: core of this is the fear that we're going to

331
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 2: run out of petrol and we're going to run out

332
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 2: of resources, right, and if you go on social media.

333
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone else has noticed it, but

334
00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 2: obviously I'm constantly looking at these patterns from money troum

335
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 2: a point of view. But different countries, for example, if

336
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 2: you look at people in the US or certain countries already,

337
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 2: in India, we're seeing a lot of panic buying, right,

338
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 2: We're seeing a lot of people, I know in Sri

339
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 2: Lanka a lot of people also panicking and doing a

340
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 2: lot of panic buying of petrol and stocking up. And

341
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 2: in America there's also this call of like we're going

342
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 2: to run out of money, We're going to run out

343
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 2: of food, We're going to run out of resources. Now,

344
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 2: if you think about that and then you compare it

345
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 2: to South Africa, I've noticed that we have a more

346
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 2: relaxed stance on this. We haven't started with intense panic buying.

347
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 2: So why is it that different countries are reacting in

348
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 2: this way. Well, because different things are being triggered and

349
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 2: activated in different countries. And one of the things that's

350
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 2: being triggered and being activated is the is the fear

351
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 2: that we will run out of resources. So if you're American,

352
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: it's probably coming from the history of the Great Depression, right,

353
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 2: because a lot of people understood what it was like

354
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 2: to run out of resources. So again, if you grew

355
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: up in a household where you did run out of resources,

356
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: and you ran out of money and things were never

357
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: enough at the end of the month, or you just

358
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 2: never had enough, there is going to be this very

359
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 2: real fear that is activated within you that you are

360
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 2: going to run out of petrol, that we will run

361
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 2: out of food, We're going to run out of basic resources.

362
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 2: And that may or may not be true. I don't know, right,

363
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 2: but you may be feeling it more deeply than anyone else.

364
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: And that's something that you need to understand and it

365
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 2: will drive your behavior in a very different way to

366
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 2: someone that says, say, has never experienced that before. Right.

367
00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 2: So a lot of people are reacting from historical knowledge,

368
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 2: right from what they've experienced historically. And one of the

369
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: things to understand is that we carry our ancestors trauma

370
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 2: in our DNA. It's called epigenetics inheritance. So for example,

371
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 2: you will start to see that someone in the US

372
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 2: may behave differently around panic buying to someone in South Africa.

373
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 2: If we haven't had that history where we've run out

374
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 2: of resources. We've never experienced task balls or any of that.

375
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: We are going to respond very, very differently. And this

376
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 2: is why different people are responding differently to whatever is

377
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: happening at a macroeconomic level and what's happening with patrol.

378
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: We've got literally a couple of minutes left, but I

379
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: just want to pick up on something else that you mentioned,

380
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: which is that volatility. Volatility triggers financial self sabotage patterns.

381
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. So when money becomes unpredictable, people who

382
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 1: have this trauma can, and I relate to this, avoid

383
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: looking at the finances. I mean, I've kind of worked

384
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: through that now, but that used to be a thing.

385
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: Wouldn't open a bank statement, wouldn't look because if I ignored it,

386
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: then it wasn't happening, and it wasn't there spending impulsively, Well,

387
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: why would you do that when you already don't know what? Well,

388
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: it's a self soothing mechanism. Do you think that we're

389
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: likely to see that even as we're telling ourselves, you know,

390
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: come Wednesday, it's going to cost me even more to

391
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: fill up my tank. But oh, look at that pretty

392
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: dress in Zara. Is it as simple as that in

393
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 1: the brain where it's like just need to need to

394
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: self south with the spending or avoid you know, let

395
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: me sit down and look at my budget and see

396
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: what I can afford. Oh no, can't do that, because

397
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: then that means me connecting with the reality of the situation.

398
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 2: Yes. One of the things to understand is until you've

399
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: done the work around creating space between your actions and

400
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: your triggers, you are You're almost it's almost like being hijacked.

401
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 2: That's literally what I call it. It's like the parts

402
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: of you that feel unsafe. You're in a child, and

403
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 2: you're in a team that learnt these coping mechanisms, and again,

404
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: your nervous system sends messages to your brain to be like,

405
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: oh this is how we cope. Well, I'm safe now.

406
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: As an entire holistic system, let us get to safety,

407
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,959
Speaker 2: and your subconscious mind will automatically retrieve all the past

408
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 2: memories of how you felt safe, and it will almost

409
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 2: When I talk to people, they say, it's almost like

410
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 2: I lost time. I didn't even have any kind of control.

411
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: I literally went into the shop and I just started shopping.

412
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: So you know that you need to follow a budget.

413
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: Most of us have been in this situation right where

414
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 2: you write the budget, you know you need to follow

415
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: the budget. It's almost like dieting. I always compare these

416
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: where you're like on a great diet and then someone

417
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: puts chocolate cake in front of you, and it's almost

418
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 2: like you have forgotten all the diet rules. It's just

419
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: like you start eating the chocolate cake. It's the same

420
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 2: thing when it comes to finances, So just be aware

421
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: of it. How do you create so the main aim

422
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: is to create space between you and your triggers when

423
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 2: you feel before you even feel the triggers, you can

424
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: start doing certain things like working with your breath, observing

425
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: what comes up in your body when you look at

426
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 2: your bank account, just sitting with it, writing down some

427
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: of the thoughts that are coming up right now around money,

428
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: and then questioning those thoughts. Important. Don't just positively affirm

429
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 2: and pretend those thoughts are not happening. Sit with those thoughts,

430
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: analyze them, really write them down so that your mind

431
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,959
Speaker 2: looks at them, sees them, and then feel into your

432
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: body and just breathe. It will help you create space.

433
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 2: Whenever that feeling of like oh my gosh, I don't

434
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 2: have enough money comes up, or oh my god, I'm

435
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: going to run out of money. Oh my gosh, what's

436
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: going to happen? And that will give you time to

437
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: just breathe and help your nervous system come down. And

438
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 2: that's when you start to make different money decisions and

439
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: it's not just an automatic pilot.

440
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: It's so interesting to me. I love how you talk

441
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: about money and money trauma. It's I think for so

442
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: many of us, it's language. When you talk about it,

443
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: we go, yes, yes, but it's not something that is

444
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: in our own minds in a you know, and you

445
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: put it so beautifully and explain it so well. Such

446
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: a pleasure having you with us, Vanguelia Maguagua, And how

447
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: do we find? Just remind us your website is Wealthy

448
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: Dash money Dot.

449
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: Yes it is here.

450
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: We go and Vanguelia Maguaga on Instagram, Go and give

451
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: her a follow because she is full of this type

452
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: of advice and introspection when it comes to your money

453
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: and your money trauma