WEBVTT - Openline 0:00:00.170 --> 0:00:03.510 It's eight minutes after 11 o'clock and welcome to the 0:00:03.650 --> 0:00:05.420 final hour of the show. Thank you so much to 0:00:05.460 --> 0:00:08.920 Stanley Beckett. Talking about our pursuit of happiness. 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:09.860 Yes. 0:00:10.740 --> 0:00:15.480 And what is definitely emerging in this conversation is that 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:20.860 perhaps our pursuit of happiness is our pursuit of authenticity. 0:00:22.860 --> 0:00:29.780 And that that pursuit is largely made up of a 0:00:29.820 --> 0:00:42.190 process of understanding and appreciating our inauthenticities and choosing to 0:00:42.229 --> 0:00:42.870 be authentic. 0:00:43.210 --> 0:00:43.430 True. 0:00:45.350 --> 0:00:49.220 Which can be very difficult. Kimiko, I'd love to hear 0:00:49.229 --> 0:00:52.640 your thoughts about how do we find happiness and what 0:00:52.820 --> 0:00:58.470 is the nature of unhappiness? It's becoming clearer as I 0:00:58.510 --> 0:01:05.059 have these conversations that the nature of unhappiness is the 0:01:05.220 --> 0:01:16.210 absence of authenticity in various degrees. The presence of authenticity 0:01:17.069 --> 0:01:22.750 in various degrees speaks of the presence of happiness in 0:01:22.810 --> 0:01:23.530 various degrees. 0:01:23.950 --> 0:01:24.130 Yes. 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:41.920 So happiness, happiness is connected to authenticity. Give me a call. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:47.200 I'd love to hear your thoughts about this. And I 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:52.510 suppose it's important for me to say this, that we 0:01:57.450 --> 0:02:03.290 We know that we know when we are inauthentic. Maybe 0:02:03.310 --> 0:02:08.209 not intellectually. I want to be careful how I say this. 0:02:09.050 --> 0:02:13.440 We might not there are many ways of knowing by 0:02:13.460 --> 0:02:20.660 the way. There's ways of knowing with our intellect. There's 0:02:20.700 --> 0:02:26.280 ways of knowing with our intuition. There's ways of knowing 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:34.250 with our just our ability to smell something, olfactory knowledge. 0:02:34.350 --> 0:02:34.530 Sure. 0:02:36.210 --> 0:02:44.010 There's ways of knowing with our five senses. There's ways 0:02:44.090 --> 0:02:47.480 of knowing in practical ways and there's ways of knowing 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:48.560 in abstract ways. 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:48.899 Yes. 0:02:52.020 --> 0:02:55.610 And I think that authenticity is when there is a, 0:02:56.260 --> 0:02:59.160 or the degree of your authenticity is when there are 0:03:00.220 --> 0:03:07.810 more ways of knowing something and it is aligned principally 0:03:09.389 --> 0:03:09.810 than not. 0:03:11.310 --> 0:03:11.570 Sure. 0:03:12.790 --> 0:03:16.149 I'm going to let this one go. But I think 0:03:16.190 --> 0:03:23.649 that that is the issue, folks. That sometimes one aspect 0:03:23.730 --> 0:03:27.089 of you is calling you out. 0:03:28.930 --> 0:03:29.210 Yes. 0:03:30.550 --> 0:03:33.600 And that aspect of you that's calling you out is 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:38.580 why you are unhappy. So one part of you can 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:39.880 be quite happy. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:40.300 Sure. 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:52.970 Driving five or three What do they call those things? Lamborghinis. 0:03:53.350 --> 0:03:55.760 Same car. Same car. Every day you've got a new 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.940 one that you drive. So there's one level of you 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:04.690 that is very, very happy. But then there's another part 0:04:04.710 --> 0:04:13.610 of the same you that calls that happiness out and says, 0:04:15.730 --> 0:04:19.410 you know how you, got that thing that made you 0:04:19.430 --> 0:04:23.310 it makes you happy yes and so what you do 0:04:23.430 --> 0:04:29.859 is that you get another Lamborghini for Saturday yeah in 0:04:29.980 --> 0:04:33.700 order to shut that part of you down to say 0:04:33.740 --> 0:04:36.140 shut up I'm going to become I'm gonna I'm gonna 0:04:36.220 --> 0:04:39.580 raise the volume of my happiness in this aspect so 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:45.340 you get another one yes But that part of you 0:04:45.380 --> 0:04:48.480 that's calling out to that other part of you becomes louder. 0:04:53.810 --> 0:04:55.830 So you think that, in fact, let me get a 0:04:55.900 --> 0:05:03.030 seventh Lamborghini. Yes. Until you get a million Lamborghinis and 0:05:03.070 --> 0:05:10.450 the loudness of your unhappiness drives you to commit suicide. Yes. 0:05:11.970 --> 0:05:17.670 Or the 1-883-0702. It is the alignment, I would argue, 0:05:19.210 --> 0:05:25.420 of the various layers of our ability to know that 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:32.110 gives us the happiness. True. So it's not just an experience, 0:05:32.150 --> 0:05:34.849 but it is the alignment of the experience with values, 0:05:35.470 --> 0:05:47.430 with ethics, with values. with companionship and shared experiences that 0:05:47.470 --> 0:05:53.630 gives us happiness. In a nutshell, it is authenticity that 0:05:54.310 --> 0:05:59.560 delivers happiness. That's why I was saying earlier on that 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.260 you can like somebody at one level of your consciousness. 0:06:05.380 --> 0:06:12.750 This guy is a brilliant soccer player. So at the 0:06:12.810 --> 0:06:17.599 level of his technical ability to play soccer, he makes 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:26.020 me very, very happy. But he beats his wife. And 0:06:26.060 --> 0:06:28.420 so there's a part of me that says, if I 0:06:28.460 --> 0:06:30.520 like him so much, this guy, does it make me 0:06:30.940 --> 0:06:37.620 like him? Because part of liking is an admission of 0:06:37.660 --> 0:06:45.750 a desire for emulation. And there are people in this 0:06:45.810 --> 0:06:50.529 world that are brilliant at various things that we admire, 0:06:50.570 --> 0:06:55.589 that we like. Then we discover that they are responsible 0:06:55.630 --> 0:07:02.310 for certain things in the world. And so you either 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:07.180 decide you're going to buy another Lamborghini by accentuating that 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.980 part of that relationship you have with that person a 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.520 little bit more in your mind and ignoring the other 0:07:13.540 --> 0:07:18.760 stuff in which case your own authenticity continues to knock 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:23.180 at the door of your conscience and says to you, ah, 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:23.720 but you know. 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:25.400 Yeah. 0:07:26.700 --> 0:07:32.620 You and me, we know. Until you jump off a building. 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:38.500 Or number 1-883-0702 is the number to dial. And the 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.480 reason why I don't want to mention names is because 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:53.200 you love these people. You love these people so much 0:07:55.180 --> 0:07:58.740 That you become so invested in them You hand your 0:07:58.900 --> 0:08:02.240 own identity over to them In fact you splice your 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:07.080 identity with theirs Because of your love for them at 0:08:07.220 --> 0:08:12.730 a particular realm At a particular level To the point 0:08:12.750 --> 0:08:20.890 that if some failed talk show host at night mentions 0:08:20.950 --> 0:08:24.810 his name in the negative, you would be ready to 0:08:24.870 --> 0:08:33.310 kill that talk show host. I mean, ready to kill him. 0:08:34.330 --> 0:08:41.900 In your quest to buy yet another Lamborghini. Good disease, sir. Ah, 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.750 let me stop that one. Hey, the conversation with Hoseo 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:50.910 go to Ramopo or Ramopo. Hey, somebody by the name 0:08:50.970 --> 0:08:53.410 of Ramopo also apparently sent her a message. She says, 0:08:53.470 --> 0:08:55.670 you must tell that fool to stop butchering our surname. 0:08:56.010 --> 0:08:59.690 I'm sorry, man. If I'm butchering the surname, please forgive me. 0:08:59.710 --> 0:09:03.750 It's this Nguni tongue, man. It sometimes gets a little 0:09:03.770 --> 0:09:10.410 bit too overwhelmed by... So I apologize if I'm messing 0:09:10.450 --> 0:09:14.130 it up. Josejo Cotu Ramopo was my guest in the 0:09:14.170 --> 0:09:19.100 previous hour just talking about this beautiful moment called the doula. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:19.630 Yes. 0:09:22.059 --> 0:09:25.400 Women that are helping other women in the process of 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:30.180 bringing life into the... I didn't know about this. And 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:36.420 I think it is a beautiful, beautiful innovation. An idea... 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.800 that comes from many cultures, by the way, in the world, 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.200 that has been lost by modern living, that is being 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:49.689 brought back in a very, very powerful way. Excellent stuff. 0:09:49.730 --> 0:09:53.250 And I hope we'll have more conversations around that. 0:09:53.290 --> 0:09:53.510 Dr. 0:09:53.530 --> 0:09:57.610 Frank Magwege in the first hour talking about the midterm 0:09:57.690 --> 0:10:05.230 budget speech by Inoko Donwana, the Minister of Finance. Apparently 0:10:05.309 --> 0:10:10.170 a budget speech that has been generally well received by 0:10:10.210 --> 0:10:18.809 the markets. And the question was, do you entertain, do 0:10:18.910 --> 0:10:25.710 you have Do you have a midterm budget reflection in 0:10:25.750 --> 0:10:31.410 your own family, in your own individual personal finance? Because 0:10:32.170 --> 0:10:34.510 that is perhaps how you take back your power. But 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:36.880 I suppose on a more general note, what did you 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:41.400 make of the midterm budget speech by the Minister of Finance? 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:43.540 Give me a call. I'd love to hear from you. 0:10:43.660 --> 0:10:47.000 It's 19 minutes after 11 o'clock. I'll talk to you 0:10:47.020 --> 0:10:56.709 straight after this. Call us on 011-883-0702. 31 minutes after 0:10:56.710 --> 0:11:01.320 11 o'clock, I'm taking your calls. Brajo is in Gwazulu Natal. Hi, Brajo. 0:11:02.010 --> 0:11:03.900 Hi, good evening, Aubrey. Yes, sir. 0:11:04.059 --> 0:11:06.359 I'm well. I'm very well, Brajo. What's on your mind? 0:11:07.660 --> 0:11:14.720 Yeah, good. And I wanted to speak about the 2027 ODI, 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:19.650 Cricket World Cup that South Africa will be hosting. But 0:11:19.670 --> 0:11:21.089 if you'll allow me, I just want to make two 0:11:21.130 --> 0:11:27.030 quick comments about the mini-budget, that the minister could have 0:11:27.070 --> 0:11:31.459 done much more to bring more relief, you know, with 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:35.720 the fuel levies and fuel taxes. And I think he 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.920 didn't go far enough to relieve, you know, the masses. Okay, 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.940 and secondly, about the doula, it's actually a Greek word 0:11:43.020 --> 0:11:46.700 that came into vogue around 1960. 0:11:46.700 --> 0:11:46.940 Yeah. 0:11:47.179 --> 0:11:49.780 So, but it means like a woman who serves. 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:55.960 Yes, yes, yes. I've become aware, yeah. I've heard, I've heard, 0:11:56.020 --> 0:12:00.760 by the way, of a death doula. You know, somebody 0:12:00.820 --> 0:12:03.780 that sort of assists people during the time of grief. 0:12:04.260 --> 0:12:05.560 Like a hostess or something, yeah. 0:12:05.660 --> 0:12:13.550 Yeah, so I had not been aware of a birth doula. 0:12:14.870 --> 0:12:17.970 Yeah, and I only came aware about maybe a decade 0:12:17.990 --> 0:12:21.829 or two ago. So I didn't know much about that either. 0:12:22.570 --> 0:12:24.699 But just about the placenta, I see you're quite like 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.980 going on with the placenta. I know in the Muslim faith, 0:12:27.500 --> 0:12:32.400 because I've had five children and, you know, we bury 0:12:32.420 --> 0:12:36.630 the placenta. You know, that's the tradition as far as 0:12:36.670 --> 0:12:37.809 the placenta is concerned. 0:12:37.830 --> 0:12:38.530 Sure, sure. 0:12:38.870 --> 0:12:38.990 Yeah. 0:12:39.030 --> 0:12:39.110 Yeah. 0:12:39.660 --> 0:12:42.319 Okay, so about this point I wanted to make about 0:12:42.420 --> 0:12:46.040 the 2027 Cricket World Cup that's going to be held 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.430 here in South Africa. I would venture to say or 0:12:49.590 --> 0:12:52.510 put it to you that South Africa will make much more, 0:12:52.570 --> 0:12:57.250 generate much more income because that event lasts like five 0:12:57.270 --> 0:13:02.430 to six weeks at least. And then holding a Formula 0:13:02.510 --> 0:13:08.140 One Grand Prix, that event actually lasts like a couple 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:12.400 of hours only. and there is a lot of moral issues, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.900 and you look at the pros and cons. So over 0:13:14.940 --> 0:13:17.939 that five, six weeks of next year's World Cup, by 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.679 the way, I just want to commend Tim Ababuma for 0:13:21.740 --> 0:13:26.680 his match savings and match winning innings that put South 0:13:26.730 --> 0:13:31.450 Africa in a poor position to win the test tomorrow, hopefully. So, 0:13:31.790 --> 0:13:35.069 you know, we've got much more going for us here 0:13:35.210 --> 0:13:38.560 in South Africa than to worry about uh... you know 0:13:38.580 --> 0:13:42.120 sort of not winning the uh... formula one grand prix 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:47.300 sort of right to the circuit uh... you know then 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.360 like it was awarded to you know uh... rwanda and 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.780 that's quite obvious why it was awarded to them it 0:13:53.179 --> 0:13:56.780 was just a foregone conclusion that would be so but 0:13:57.370 --> 0:14:01.230 south african companies are already operating in rwanda as far 0:14:01.270 --> 0:14:05.290 as you know uh... with their infrastructure and things like 0:14:05.330 --> 0:14:10.230 that uh... And, you know, even in other parts of Africa, 0:14:10.250 --> 0:14:15.220 South African companies are, like, you know, quite involved across, 0:14:15.700 --> 0:14:20.740 you know, the whole of Africa. So, you know, we 0:14:20.780 --> 0:14:24.380 still benefit to get a slice of the cake off that, 0:14:24.460 --> 0:14:26.750 you know, to call on the South African expertise. You know, 0:14:26.770 --> 0:14:28.660 as I told you the other night, We've got so 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:33.370 many racing circuits, you know, all over the country. We 0:14:33.430 --> 0:14:35.650 have the infrastructure on net, if we would have wanted, 0:14:35.770 --> 0:14:39.770 but due to geopolitics, we didn't. And that's not, you know, 0:14:39.790 --> 0:14:41.690 we shouldn't cry about it in the least bit, because 0:14:42.110 --> 0:14:45.070 we've got much more other events we can make money from. 0:14:45.430 --> 0:14:50.940 I mean, we hold annually the Africa mining in Daba 0:14:51.140 --> 0:14:57.000 and tourism in Daba. And so, you know, we're benefiting... 0:14:57.220 --> 0:15:02.600 Many other ways. And we should be thankful for that. 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.960 I didn't listen to this last hour because I was 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:09.240 busy with something else. But, you know, it boils down 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.770 to a lot of happiness. You know, that you're going 0:15:11.790 --> 0:15:14.370 to be satisfied. Like, you know, you're going to dematerialize yourself. 0:15:14.710 --> 0:15:19.670 Not attach yourself too much to worldly things. And, you know, 0:15:19.730 --> 0:15:22.530 thank the Creator and, you know, be thankful for whatever 0:15:22.570 --> 0:15:27.530 you have. And that will... in a paid atmosphere for happiness. 0:15:28.330 --> 0:15:31.710 Joe, I hear you. Thanks very much for your call. 0:15:31.770 --> 0:15:32.050 Dr. 0:15:32.110 --> 0:15:38.010 Philemon Mahuma. Finally, we get to hear your voice, Dr. 0:15:38.050 --> 0:15:38.310 Phil. 0:15:38.330 --> 0:15:39.070 Good evening to you. 0:15:39.890 --> 0:15:43.250 Good evening, I have to protect this voice. 0:15:45.630 --> 0:15:47.010 Tell me what are your thoughts, doc? 0:15:48.650 --> 0:15:51.860 No, I don't want to comment on the, on the 0:15:51.900 --> 0:15:52.920 doula discussion. 0:15:52.940 --> 0:15:53.220 Yeah. 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.960 Yes, I might have lost what your last caller was 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:02.330 saying because I was on the phone with your producer. 0:16:02.530 --> 0:16:02.770 Yes. 0:16:03.530 --> 0:16:07.750 Yes, but I wanted to say the concept applies to 0:16:08.030 --> 0:16:12.180 birds and normally it will be a joyful process. But 0:16:12.260 --> 0:16:14.440 there are other processes as well. 0:16:14.620 --> 0:16:14.920 Yes. 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:16.440 Because sometimes. 0:16:17.900 --> 0:16:22.180 The outcome of a birth is not a positive. Maybe 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.840 the baby will die or will come as a stillborn. 0:16:24.860 --> 0:16:31.090 So there are people who do the doula process as 0:16:31.620 --> 0:16:37.610 a bereavement doula. And then also going to other aspects 0:16:37.690 --> 0:16:42.990 of life, we have people who die and there are, 0:16:43.970 --> 0:16:49.010 people who are called death doulas, or also bereavement doulas, 0:16:49.190 --> 0:16:56.530 people who are company, people who are transitioning. Relamu Khila 0:16:56.580 --> 0:17:01.200 has covered it in her show in the afternoon. 0:17:01.220 --> 0:17:01.720 Right. 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:06.459 And it's something that I'm interested in. I've spoken to 0:17:06.500 --> 0:17:09.459 people at work, and they think it's something that we 0:17:09.500 --> 0:17:11.720 are neglecting, that we should do more about. 0:17:11.740 --> 0:17:15.630 Yeah, yeah. I think it speaks to the fact that 0:17:16.910 --> 0:17:19.510 as we begin to understand that there are so many 0:17:19.710 --> 0:17:26.360 aspects of who we are, that we are as much 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:37.510 a clinical, medical being, biological being, as we are also 0:17:37.670 --> 0:17:42.330 a social and spiritual being. And the more that the 0:17:42.390 --> 0:17:48.840 more that realization becomes stronger, we're going to find that 0:17:48.940 --> 0:17:53.399 there are going to be more and more services that 0:17:53.420 --> 0:17:56.540 are going to be required to take care of those 0:17:56.700 --> 0:18:01.440 aspects of us. And I think that the future perhaps 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:02.840 looks bright in that sense, yeah? 0:18:04.300 --> 0:18:04.760 Yes, yes. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:10.590 And sometimes as doctors, as specialists, as super specialists, we... 0:18:11.380 --> 0:18:14.919 we don't talk to people and it causes such a 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.250 lot of trouble. And when you do that talking properly, 0:18:19.690 --> 0:18:22.090 it also saves you such a lot of trouble. So 0:18:22.310 --> 0:18:26.770 I've been speaking to the patients, explaining what's going on, 0:18:27.770 --> 0:18:32.359 explaining what to expect and what to not expect. It 0:18:32.500 --> 0:18:37.159 is very important. So, you know, we really need to 0:18:37.220 --> 0:18:40.000 do more in that sense, you know, to accompany patients, 0:18:40.990 --> 0:18:49.109 a family in a journey of transitioning, especially into the inevitable, 0:18:49.170 --> 0:18:51.170 which is death or demise. 0:18:52.650 --> 0:18:55.010 Dr. Philemon Mahuma, thank you so much. Great to hear 0:18:55.030 --> 0:18:58.290 your voice, my brother. I always read your comments, but 0:18:58.369 --> 0:19:01.389 never have had the pleasure of hearing you speak. I 0:19:01.450 --> 0:19:03.810 really appreciate you giving us a call. Thank you so much. 0:19:03.830 --> 0:19:05.670 It's a pleasure, brother. 0:19:05.730 --> 0:19:09.890 Indeed. Dr. Philemon, you know, this business is very strange. 0:19:09.950 --> 0:19:10.149 You can. 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:17.450 Literally, like, develop such a rapport with people. Yeah? True. 0:19:17.710 --> 0:19:18.250 For years. 0:19:18.869 --> 0:19:19.330 Years. 0:19:19.350 --> 0:19:25.129 And never have met them. And that's why I argue, 0:19:25.710 --> 0:19:29.150 that we know in many different ways. 0:19:30.910 --> 0:19:31.170 Yeah? 0:19:33.270 --> 0:19:37.450 We know in many different ways. And I think that 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:43.900 as we become... more aware, as we learn, as we accept, 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:56.130 we're going to find out that we self-limit. too much. True. 0:19:56.150 --> 0:19:56.490 011-883-0702. 0:19:56.510 --> 0:20:02.949 Mkeshana? Yes, Mkeshana. What's happening, my brother? 0:20:02.990 --> 0:20:04.230 How is it, my hope? 0:20:04.270 --> 0:20:05.170 What's on your mind? 0:20:05.990 --> 0:20:08.890 No, on my mind is something that I once talked 0:20:08.930 --> 0:20:12.590 to you about. Yeah. And I told him to bring 0:20:12.869 --> 0:20:17.720 the best sport presenter that you think, maybe this one, 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.859 maybe he knows South African football or world football for 0:20:21.900 --> 0:20:22.399 that matter. 0:20:23.140 --> 0:20:24.660 Oh, yeah? And then what did I do? 0:20:26.340 --> 0:20:27.360 Well, I was. 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:32.470 Telling you that day that in Germany, no one owns 0:20:32.550 --> 0:20:36.390 a football team. Football teams belong to the communities. 0:20:37.050 --> 0:20:37.690 Okay. 0:20:38.270 --> 0:20:42.830 Or the supporters. Okay. You understand? No individual should own 0:20:42.890 --> 0:20:48.709 a football. Football doesn't belong to individual. Football belongs to 0:20:48.750 --> 0:20:53.980 the people. Just like it is happening. You go to Italy, 0:20:55.619 --> 0:21:02.120 you go to England. You talk about Manchester from Manchester. 0:21:02.140 --> 0:21:06.270 You talk about Chelsea. Chelsea is from Chelsea. It's not Opelika. 0:21:07.050 --> 0:21:10.470 or please Cosmos or please something. 0:21:10.730 --> 0:21:14.760 So in these European countries, the football clubs are not 0:21:14.950 --> 0:21:16.820 owned by entrepreneurs? 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:23.020 No, not all the countries. Even in Germany, it's worse. 0:21:24.100 --> 0:21:28.639 It's 50 plus one there. You can only fall maybe 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.979 a less percentage from the supporters. You don't have a 0:21:33.369 --> 0:21:37.300 hundred percent say in the team. The communities have a 0:21:37.340 --> 0:21:38.200 say in the team. 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:41.240 No, no, no, no. I thought you were saying that 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:46.610 in Germany, no team has any entrepreneurial ownership. It's all by. 0:21:46.750 --> 0:21:47.770 Private ownership. 0:21:48.070 --> 0:21:48.310 Yes. 0:21:48.330 --> 0:21:48.929 Private ownership. 0:21:48.950 --> 0:21:50.419 Private ownership. That's what I mean by. 0:21:50.430 --> 0:21:53.450 Yeah, just like it's happening in South Africa. In South Africa, 0:21:53.470 --> 0:21:57.300 Kezam Tahun can wake up tomorrow and sell Keza chips 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:01.020 to Cape Town, and that person can relocate Keza chips, 0:22:01.619 --> 0:22:06.199 change colors, and... nobody can say anything about it. 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.780 And rename the team. 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.520 Nobody can say anything about it. Something that you cannot 0:22:12.580 --> 0:22:14.699 do in Europe. 0:22:14.740 --> 0:22:19.320 So in Germany, there are no entrepreneurs that own teams? 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:27.070 When you say that the term entrepreneur, I don't understand. 0:22:27.109 --> 0:22:28.190 Somebody who's a businessman. 0:22:29.930 --> 0:22:31.430 No, you cannot. 0:22:32.850 --> 0:22:36.409 You cannot own the team and the team becomes yours. No, 0:22:36.609 --> 0:22:41.669 it cannot be. In every decision, the supporters must have 0:22:41.810 --> 0:22:44.540 a contribution. 0:22:45.130 --> 0:22:52.700 But are you saying to me that a contribution can 0:22:52.900 --> 0:22:53.919 only come if you own? 0:22:56.780 --> 0:22:59.880 I don't understand the question. Let me put it. 0:22:59.820 --> 0:23:02.720 This way to you, my ops. Maybe you'll understand it better. 0:23:03.950 --> 0:23:06.869 In South Africa, you can own a team. 0:23:07.090 --> 0:23:07.330 Yes. 0:23:07.890 --> 0:23:10.430 And that team can belong to you and your family. 0:23:10.630 --> 0:23:13.169 And no one else can tell you anything about it. 0:23:14.050 --> 0:23:15.070 Yes, because you own it. 0:23:15.090 --> 0:23:17.350 Yeah, in South Africa, you can have a team, you 0:23:17.390 --> 0:23:20.260 can sell it, you can change colors the way you like. 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:23.760 Nobody can say anything about it. It's your team and 0:23:23.780 --> 0:23:24.359 your family. 0:23:24.710 --> 0:23:27.840 And you say that in Europe, you can't do that? 0:23:29.140 --> 0:23:35.060 No, you can't. You can't. In everything, supporters must have 0:23:35.100 --> 0:23:38.379 a say. It's just that they don't operate exactly the same. 0:23:38.790 --> 0:23:43.550 But in England, for example, it is compulsory for clubs 0:23:44.210 --> 0:23:48.790 to have a trust for supporters. It is compulsory for 0:23:48.869 --> 0:23:49.690 each and every team. 0:23:49.710 --> 0:23:55.359 But in Germany... So just stay with me because I'm 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:57.740 trying to learn here. So you're saying to me that 0:23:57.780 --> 0:24:02.500 it is part of the legislation in Britain that a 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:06.460 team may not be owned by a private owner. It 0:24:06.530 --> 0:24:08.490 is always owned by the collective. 0:24:08.510 --> 0:24:12.730 No, you're confusing. I'm saying in Germany. In Germany. 0:24:12.850 --> 0:24:15.470 Oh, in Germany. Yes, in Germany. 0:24:15.650 --> 0:24:20.270 You can't own a team there. Teams there are owned 51% 0:24:20.270 --> 0:24:30.390 by supporters and former players. Many own the other percentage. 0:24:30.410 --> 0:24:33.950 But 51%. And the 49%, who owns that 49%? 0:24:34.369 --> 0:24:39.199 You can come as a businessman and own that 49%, 0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:45.800 but 51% is supporters and former players in Germany. Are 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:48.220 you hearing that for the first time, Mobs, from me? 0:24:48.740 --> 0:24:49.240 No, no, no. 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.640 I'm hearing the clarification for the first time. So you're 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:59.770 saying to me that you can own 49% of this 0:25:00.170 --> 0:25:01.889 club as a businessman. 0:25:03.369 --> 0:25:07.390 Yes, you can. Yeah, 49%. Yeah, not more than that. 0:25:08.310 --> 0:25:10.830 Okay, but you realize that you started off by saying 0:25:10.869 --> 0:25:15.950 that no... No businessman can own a club in Germany. 0:25:17.109 --> 0:25:17.910 I didn't say that. 0:25:18.490 --> 0:25:19.130 You didn't say that? 0:25:19.470 --> 0:25:19.750 Oh, okay. 0:25:19.810 --> 0:25:20.170 I'm sorry. 0:25:20.230 --> 0:25:21.450 I clarified that. 0:25:21.850 --> 0:25:22.209 Okay. 0:25:22.290 --> 0:25:24.330 I clarified that to you. I didn't say that. 0:25:25.090 --> 0:25:26.090 No problem. 0:25:26.310 --> 0:25:30.410 Even if, even if that, maybe I didn't mean that. Yeah. 0:25:31.270 --> 0:25:31.910 Oh, okay. 0:25:31.970 --> 0:25:32.270 No, no. 0:25:32.290 --> 0:25:34.760 You must remember the language that you're speaking, Mahouts. 0:25:35.660 --> 0:25:37.740 No, I mean, I don't think it's a language issue. 0:25:38.900 --> 0:25:46.229 Yeah, but now the question is for you. Why is 0:25:46.330 --> 0:25:50.650 it in South Africa, just like now, what triggered me 0:25:50.670 --> 0:25:55.440 to say this to you? It's because it's hard to 0:25:55.480 --> 0:26:02.709 pay for legal fees. Yes. You see? And SAFA, it 0:26:02.750 --> 0:26:05.250 belongs to the people of South Africa. It's not a 0:26:05.670 --> 0:26:10.649 private club like the Kansas City Pirates, Sandals, or Reds. SAFA, 0:26:10.830 --> 0:26:15.370 it belongs to the people. They are just those people there. 0:26:15.970 --> 0:26:20.510 They don't own South African football. It's just that our journalists, 0:26:20.590 --> 0:26:29.580 they are failing us here because they don't teach South Africans, 0:26:29.960 --> 0:26:35.790 you see. For you, in South Africa, in Germany, you 0:26:35.830 --> 0:26:38.710 know what they are called? They are not called supporters. 0:26:39.130 --> 0:26:42.629 They are called owners. In South Africa, you know what 0:26:42.650 --> 0:26:46.949 they are calling football supporters? Customers. 0:26:48.810 --> 0:26:51.300 They are called customers in South Africa. 0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:54.240 In other countries, like in Europe, they don't call it. 0:26:56.410 --> 0:26:59.280 Why are they called customers? Because they are customers. They 0:26:59.300 --> 0:27:02.020 are not part of ownership. They don't own these teams, 0:27:02.040 --> 0:27:05.899 these people. You hear saying, hey, my team is Kedashi, 0:27:05.940 --> 0:27:09.750 my team is Orlando, Paris, Stantown. They don't own those teams, 0:27:09.770 --> 0:27:10.429 these people. 0:27:11.270 --> 0:27:15.630 Yeah. Are you saying to me that in order for 0:27:15.670 --> 0:27:20.139 you to identify a team as your team, you have 0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:20.520 to own it? 0:27:22.800 --> 0:27:28.379 Of course. Of course. You must even have a say 0:27:28.740 --> 0:27:34.109 in the running of the team. Nobody can be a 0:27:34.190 --> 0:27:37.770 sole owner. And then you are a supporter. You must remember, 0:27:37.810 --> 0:27:41.369 my obs, every season, these teams, they buy away and 0:27:41.430 --> 0:27:44.610 home jerseys. As a supporter, you must buy those jerseys. 0:27:45.550 --> 0:27:47.790 But as soon as they sell the team. 0:27:48.109 --> 0:27:48.550 You must? 0:27:50.150 --> 0:27:50.510 Come again? 0:27:50.650 --> 0:27:52.369 You must buy those jerseys. 0:27:54.700 --> 0:27:59.560 I mean, as a supporter, they are selling these things 0:27:59.700 --> 0:28:02.530 away in a home case. Who must buy those things? 0:28:02.690 --> 0:28:05.389