Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Let's focus then on transports specifically. The Minister of Transport,
Speaker 2: Barbara Creasy, presented her budget in Parliament today. The details
Speaker 2: of what's going to be spent are the subject of
Speaker 2: some fierce discussion, strong criticisms coming from a couple of
Speaker 2: the opposition parties. But let's welcome two seven h two
Speaker 2: drive then, Minister Barbara Creasy, thanks very much for giving
Speaker 2: us your time.
Speaker 1: Good afternoon, Johanna, and greetings to all your listeners.
Speaker 2: In a large budget you make some really substantial transfers
Speaker 2: to some agencies that have, to put it mildly, a
Speaker 2: checked record of looking after that money and spending it
Speaker 2: well coming to mind, and at twenty to almost twenty
Speaker 2: three billion round is the Passenger Rail Agency of South
Speaker 2: Africa PRASA. There's been controversy as well around sun roll
Speaker 2: and allocations tenders awarded that people have contested. They're getting
Speaker 2: almost twenty seven billion round and I could go on,
Speaker 2: but let me not and asked the question, rather, do
Speaker 2: you allocate this money with complete confidence, A in the
Speaker 2: probity of the entities and be in their competence.
Speaker 1: John, I think if we look at Prance's recent record,
Speaker 1: we have seen a situation where after the over the
Speaker 1: last three years, they have managed to restore thirty five
Speaker 1: out of the forty priority lines. This has been a
Speaker 1: very huge undertaking. During the COVID pandemic, these lines were
Speaker 1: significantly vandalized. Many of our stations were totally dismantled and
Speaker 1: cartered away. And I have visited many of these programs
Speaker 1: and I'm pleased to say that these lines are now operating.
Speaker 1: The money that we are receiving from National Treasury is
Speaker 1: primarily intended to deal with signaling. One of the reasons
Speaker 1: that we're not able to run all of the new
Speaker 1: blue trains that we have acquired is because we're still
Speaker 1: using a manual signaling a situation. We need to finalize
Speaker 1: signaling on these lines in order to increase what we
Speaker 1: call the slots, so that we are able to run
Speaker 1: trains more frequently, particularly during rush our peak periods, and
Speaker 1: ensure that commuters can get more safely and effectively to work. Similarly,
Speaker 1: with Sunral, I have visited most of their big construction
Speaker 1: projects in two and three. I think that these are
Speaker 1: enormous construction projects that are being undertaken and Melotter Road
Speaker 1: is another one of these roads. That construction has been
Speaker 1: outstanding for a significant period of time. In all of
Speaker 1: my dealings with with the entities, we have emphasized that
Speaker 1: we have to move to appointment of contractors. There has
Speaker 1: to be fit oversight on the management. And because we've
Speaker 1: got sixteen entities under our department, we're actually reviewing our
Speaker 1: whole oversite model so that we can make sure that
Speaker 1: these entities are actually focusing on what legislation says, are
Speaker 1: they objectives and we don't have a mission drift.
Speaker 2: Yes, other problems so Minister, I mean, I take your
Speaker 2: point that on site you will see impressive work. But
Speaker 2: given that this is a budget vote today, the management
Speaker 2: of the money is critical. Just at a glance order
Speaker 2: to general last year, drawing attention to the prosserboard three
Speaker 2: point eight billion rand in irregular expenditure. They may well
Speaker 2: get railway lines open, but in terms of the governance
Speaker 2: of pros and there may be others we can talk about,
Speaker 2: are you confident that that government's governance is now in
Speaker 2: place because all of this infrastructure is critical, there really
Speaker 2: isn't a round to waste.
Speaker 1: John, I think when we're dealing with irregular expenditure, the
Speaker 1: key issue that the Order to General wants to know
Speaker 1: is that there has been consequence management over future I
Speaker 1: mean over previous irregular expenditure. Some of this expenditure is
Speaker 1: still subject to SIU investigations and criminal proceedings. But I
Speaker 1: have recently addressed a letter to the Board on this
Speaker 1: very question of regular expenditure, asking for a detailed documentation
Speaker 1: on what they're doing to meet National Treasury's requirements so
Speaker 1: that we can actually care this irregular expenditure.
Speaker 2: What about entities like the Air Traffic Navigation Services You've
Speaker 2: been exercised with some of the delays in for example,
Speaker 2: flight plans has had knock on effects at airports where
Speaker 2: planes can't leave and land. This is an entity, by
Speaker 2: the way, who CEO takes home? I think six point
Speaker 2: one four million rand a year. The executive salaries are substantial.
Speaker 2: What is your overall view of the competence of the
Speaker 2: executives who run the key entities that fall under transporter?
Speaker 1: We got the right people? Well. I think it's a
Speaker 1: matter of public record that I did request the Board
Speaker 1: to suspend the CEO of the Air Traffic Navigation Services
Speaker 1: following the intervention team that I appointed earlier this year.
Speaker 1: That found a number of problems in the entity. So
Speaker 1: those processes with regard to that suspension are still going on,
Speaker 1: but it was a very dire situation that we discovered there.
Speaker 1: We've had to re establish recruitment of a range of
Speaker 1: highly skilled personnel. We've also had to re establish the
Speaker 1: whole training pipeline. You know, South African air traffic navigators
Speaker 1: and others skilled personnel in the navigation space are highly
Speaker 1: sought after in the international domain and it means that
Speaker 1: you've got to have a big pipeline. We're also doing
Speaker 1: enormous amounts of work with the OEMs to make sure
Speaker 1: that we sought out the communication equipment, re establish all
Speaker 1: of the safety protocols and close out findings on safety audits.
Speaker 1: And of course we're still working on the flight procedures
Speaker 1: and I am hoping that soon we'll have a project
Speaker 1: office so that we can finally deal with outstanding procedure
Speaker 1: and put this matter to bed once and for all.
Speaker 2: So let's go back to roads if we can, or
Speaker 2: in fact go to roads, because we've been on the
Speaker 2: railway lines. Minister Provincial Roads Maintenance grand fifty three point
Speaker 2: one billion Rand. That's over the medium term expenditure framework,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of work that needs doing. But
Speaker 2: we certainly hear regularly from our listeners about the state
Speaker 2: of our roads. In terms of a province who gets
Speaker 2: an allocation, which gets an allocation to fix roads within
Speaker 2: its boundaries, to what extent does the National Ministry oversee
Speaker 2: choice of contractors, quality control and so on. Or is
Speaker 2: it pretty much you allocate and then you pretty much
Speaker 2: hope that they will do it and do it well.
Speaker 1: Look, when myself and Deputy Minister came into the Department,
Speaker 1: we found that the capacity to do the kind of
Speaker 1: oversight that you're talking about had been undermined in in
Speaker 1: the department. We have re established some of that capacity.
Speaker 1: It's critically important when we give conditional grants that we
Speaker 1: make sure that they are being effectively and efficiently spent,
Speaker 1: particularly in a situation where every year I get requests
Speaker 1: from provincial premiers to take over provincial roads. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've just taken over another three thousand kilometers at the
Speaker 1: request of provincial premiers. So we do want to know
Speaker 1: that this money is being effectively spent. And one of
Speaker 1: the issues that I will be discussing in the National
Speaker 1: Council of Provinces when I do the budget vote there tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Is the role that provinces themselves misplay with regard to
Speaker 1: the municipal Infrastructure grant that is supposed to be spent
Speaker 1: upgrading municipal roads. There's a lot of complaints from citizens
Speaker 1: about the state of municipal roads, particularly you know, issues
Speaker 1: such as potome. But what we find is that the
Speaker 1: municipal Infrastructure grant is either being used for other budget
Speaker 1: necessities in municipalities or it's being returned to National Treasury.
Speaker 1: So this really is a very important function that provincial
Speaker 1: authorities are also going to have to take on. Otherwise
Speaker 1: we are going to keep having very dissatisfied citizens while
Speaker 1: money is being returned to National Treasury.
Speaker 2: In terms of the driver's license cards, this is a
Speaker 2: machine that is way beyond its life. I do acknowledge
Speaker 2: there have been court cases that may have delayed procedures,
Speaker 2: but this has reached the point where I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people are saying this has really got quite ridiculous.
Speaker 2: The technology is advanced. We had an expert on saying
Speaker 2: things that used to take up huge areas and huge rooms,
Speaker 2: machines literally on our desktops. What are the provisions for
Speaker 2: that and what undertakings might the Transport Department give that
Speaker 2: this is going to get sorted out once and for all,
Speaker 2: because it aids a long running story, But it doesn't
Speaker 2: sound enormously complicated.
Speaker 1: John, let me say that we've we've signed an MoU
Speaker 1: with the Government Printers because it is necessary to have
Speaker 1: a backup to this very old machine that's currently working
Speaker 1: really hard to try and deal with backlog that has
Speaker 1: accumulated in driver's license cards while the review mechanism on
Speaker 1: the purchase of the new card machine is underway. I
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about the long term solutions because
Speaker 1: obviously that prejudges the matter. But as you as you
Speaker 1: correctly point out these in the in the modern digital age,
Speaker 1: this is not rocket science anymore. But we have got
Speaker 1: this interim solution with the Government Printer and I hope
Speaker 1: that that is going to help us to eliminate the
Speaker 1: backlog and deal with the justifiable frustration that our citizens
Speaker 1: are facing at the moment.
Speaker 2: Minister presumably continued allocations to the Road Accident Fund to
Speaker 2: for its operations, but one of our listeners, Rhon asks
Speaker 2: why there are so many vacancies in transport departments in
Speaker 2: general and particularly at the RAF and lists chief Claims Officer,
Speaker 2: head of Claims Operations, head of Legal and I think
Speaker 2: there are another four or five that they list. Again,
Speaker 2: this is a department or an entity where the CEO
Speaker 2: earns a very large salary. Why are those vacancies allowed
Speaker 2: to persist for as long as they do? I mean,
Speaker 2: there are boards for all of these state entities that
Speaker 2: fall under transport. Are the boards failing to do that job?
Speaker 1: I think John that it's no secret that the governance
Speaker 1: at the Road Accident Fund is very problematic. I'm currently
Speaker 1: involved in a process that is attending to those governance matters.
Speaker 1: As soon as we have completed the due process, we
Speaker 1: will be obviously informing the public of that. In addition,
Speaker 1: I think that we do need legislative changes in relation
Speaker 1: to the Road Accident Fund. We need a no fault
Speaker 1: system so that it's easier for those who need to
Speaker 1: benefit from the fund to put in claims. We also
Speaker 1: need a clear schedule of benefits so that there's a
Speaker 1: more equitable distribution of benefits amongst all citizens depending on
Speaker 1: the nature of their claim or their injury. So there's
Speaker 1: a lot of work that is required to be done there,
Speaker 1: and it is a matter that is receiving my urgent
Speaker 1: attention at the moment.
Speaker 2: And just finally, Minister's suggestion from one of our listeners,
Speaker 2: I suppose a question implicit in this but suggesting that
Speaker 2: legislation that deals with penalties for reckless driving, and he's
Speaker 2: very exercised about many bus taxis, said that this should
Speaker 2: be applied based on the number of passengers whose lives
Speaker 2: are endangered. In other words, if you're transporting thirteen people,
Speaker 2: penalties would be more severe than if you're in a
Speaker 2: vehicle with two people in it. Any thoughts on that,
Speaker 2: is that something that a sounds viable for you? And
Speaker 2: second that you might contemplate.
Speaker 1: Well, John, the new auto system that will come into
Speaker 1: operation on the first of December does have a penalty
Speaker 1: system as well as a fine system, and the idea
Speaker 1: of the penalty system is to try and make sure
Speaker 1: that repeat offenders and miscreens are ultimately eliminated from a
Speaker 1: situation where they have drivers' licenses through this penalty system.
Speaker 1: So I don't know whether it really deals with a
Speaker 1: number of passengers you have, but definitely your listener would
Speaker 1: be correct in saying that we can't just have a
Speaker 1: situation where we can weak out people are fine for
Speaker 1: the same bad behavior. There has to be long term
Speaker 1: consequences and I think that's what the ARTO system aims
Speaker 1: to achieve.
Speaker 2: Transport Minister Barbara Cristie, thanks very much.