WEBVTT - Budget Vote Analysis  

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's focus then on transports specifically. The Minister of Transport,

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<v Speaker 2>Barbara Creasy, presented her budget in Parliament today. The details

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<v Speaker 2>of what's going to be spent are the subject of

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<v Speaker 2>some fierce discussion, strong criticisms coming from a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>the opposition parties. But let's welcome two seven h two

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<v Speaker 2>drive then, Minister Barbara Creasy, thanks very much for giving

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<v Speaker 2>us your time.

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<v Speaker 1>Good afternoon, Johanna, and greetings to all your listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>In a large budget you make some really substantial transfers

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<v Speaker 2>to some agencies that have, to put it mildly, a

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<v Speaker 2>checked record of looking after that money and spending it

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<v Speaker 2>well coming to mind, and at twenty to almost twenty

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<v Speaker 2>three billion round is the Passenger Rail Agency of South

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<v Speaker 2>Africa PRASA. There's been controversy as well around sun roll

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<v Speaker 2>and allocations tenders awarded that people have contested. They're getting

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<v Speaker 2>almost twenty seven billion round and I could go on,

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<v Speaker 2>but let me not and asked the question, rather, do

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<v Speaker 2>you allocate this money with complete confidence, A in the

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<v Speaker 2>probity of the entities and be in their competence.

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<v Speaker 1>John, I think if we look at Prance's recent record,

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<v Speaker 1>we have seen a situation where after the over the

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<v Speaker 1>last three years, they have managed to restore thirty five

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<v Speaker 1>out of the forty priority lines. This has been a

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<v Speaker 1>very huge undertaking. During the COVID pandemic, these lines were

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<v Speaker 1>significantly vandalized. Many of our stations were totally dismantled and

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<v Speaker 1>cartered away. And I have visited many of these programs

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm pleased to say that these lines are now operating.

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<v Speaker 1>The money that we are receiving from National Treasury is

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<v Speaker 1>primarily intended to deal with signaling. One of the reasons

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<v Speaker 1>that we're not able to run all of the new

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<v Speaker 1>blue trains that we have acquired is because we're still

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<v Speaker 1>using a manual signaling a situation. We need to finalize

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<v Speaker 1>signaling on these lines in order to increase what we

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<v Speaker 1>call the slots, so that we are able to run

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<v Speaker 1>trains more frequently, particularly during rush our peak periods, and

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<v Speaker 1>ensure that commuters can get more safely and effectively to work. Similarly,

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<v Speaker 1>with Sunral, I have visited most of their big construction

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<v Speaker 1>projects in two and three. I think that these are

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<v Speaker 1>enormous construction projects that are being undertaken and Melotter Road

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<v Speaker 1>is another one of these roads. That construction has been

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<v Speaker 1>outstanding for a significant period of time. In all of

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<v Speaker 1>my dealings with with the entities, we have emphasized that

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<v Speaker 1>we have to move to appointment of contractors. There has

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<v Speaker 1>to be fit oversight on the management. And because we've

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<v Speaker 1>got sixteen entities under our department, we're actually reviewing our

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<v Speaker 1>whole oversite model so that we can make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>these entities are actually focusing on what legislation says, are

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<v Speaker 1>they objectives and we don't have a mission drift.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, other problems so Minister, I mean, I take your

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<v Speaker 2>point that on site you will see impressive work. But

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<v Speaker 2>given that this is a budget vote today, the management

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<v Speaker 2>of the money is critical. Just at a glance order

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<v Speaker 2>to general last year, drawing attention to the prosserboard three

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<v Speaker 2>point eight billion rand in irregular expenditure. They may well

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<v Speaker 2>get railway lines open, but in terms of the governance

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<v Speaker 2>of pros and there may be others we can talk about,

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<v Speaker 2>are you confident that that government's governance is now in

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<v Speaker 2>place because all of this infrastructure is critical, there really

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<v Speaker 2>isn't a round to waste.

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<v Speaker 1>John, I think when we're dealing with irregular expenditure, the

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<v Speaker 1>key issue that the Order to General wants to know

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<v Speaker 1>is that there has been consequence management over future I

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<v Speaker 1>mean over previous irregular expenditure. Some of this expenditure is

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<v Speaker 1>still subject to SIU investigations and criminal proceedings. But I

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<v Speaker 1>have recently addressed a letter to the Board on this

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<v Speaker 1>very question of regular expenditure, asking for a detailed documentation

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<v Speaker 1>on what they're doing to meet National Treasury's requirements so

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<v Speaker 1>that we can actually care this irregular expenditure.

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<v Speaker 2>What about entities like the Air Traffic Navigation Services You've

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<v Speaker 2>been exercised with some of the delays in for example,

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<v Speaker 2>flight plans has had knock on effects at airports where

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<v Speaker 2>planes can't leave and land. This is an entity, by

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<v Speaker 2>the way, who CEO takes home? I think six point

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<v Speaker 2>one four million rand a year. The executive salaries are substantial.

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<v Speaker 2>What is your overall view of the competence of the

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<v Speaker 2>executives who run the key entities that fall under transporter?

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<v Speaker 1>We got the right people? Well. I think it's a

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<v Speaker 1>matter of public record that I did request the Board

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<v Speaker 1>to suspend the CEO of the Air Traffic Navigation Services

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<v Speaker 1>following the intervention team that I appointed earlier this year.

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<v Speaker 1>That found a number of problems in the entity. So

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<v Speaker 1>those processes with regard to that suspension are still going on,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was a very dire situation that we discovered there.

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<v Speaker 1>We've had to re establish recruitment of a range of

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<v Speaker 1>highly skilled personnel. We've also had to re establish the

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<v Speaker 1>whole training pipeline. You know, South African air traffic navigators

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<v Speaker 1>and others skilled personnel in the navigation space are highly

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<v Speaker 1>sought after in the international domain and it means that

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<v Speaker 1>you've got to have a big pipeline. We're also doing

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<v Speaker 1>enormous amounts of work with the OEMs to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that we sought out the communication equipment, re establish all

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<v Speaker 1>of the safety protocols and close out findings on safety audits.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course we're still working on the flight procedures

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<v Speaker 1>and I am hoping that soon we'll have a project

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<v Speaker 1>office so that we can finally deal with outstanding procedure

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<v Speaker 1>and put this matter to bed once and for all.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's go back to roads if we can, or

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<v Speaker 2>in fact go to roads, because we've been on the

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<v Speaker 2>railway lines. Minister Provincial Roads Maintenance grand fifty three point

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<v Speaker 2>one billion Rand. That's over the medium term expenditure framework,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's a lot of work that needs doing. But

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<v Speaker 2>we certainly hear regularly from our listeners about the state

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<v Speaker 2>of our roads. In terms of a province who gets

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<v Speaker 2>an allocation, which gets an allocation to fix roads within

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<v Speaker 2>its boundaries, to what extent does the National Ministry oversee

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<v Speaker 2>choice of contractors, quality control and so on. Or is

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<v Speaker 2>it pretty much you allocate and then you pretty much

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<v Speaker 2>hope that they will do it and do it well.

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<v Speaker 1>Look, when myself and Deputy Minister came into the Department,

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<v Speaker 1>we found that the capacity to do the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>oversight that you're talking about had been undermined in in

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<v Speaker 1>the department. We have re established some of that capacity.

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<v Speaker 1>It's critically important when we give conditional grants that we

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<v Speaker 1>make sure that they are being effectively and efficiently spent,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly in a situation where every year I get requests

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<v Speaker 1>from provincial premiers to take over provincial roads. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I've just taken over another three thousand kilometers at the

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<v Speaker 1>request of provincial premiers. So we do want to know

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<v Speaker 1>that this money is being effectively spent. And one of

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<v Speaker 1>the issues that I will be discussing in the National

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<v Speaker 1>Council of Provinces when I do the budget vote there tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the role that provinces themselves misplay with regard to

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<v Speaker 1>the municipal Infrastructure grant that is supposed to be spent

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<v Speaker 1>upgrading municipal roads. There's a lot of complaints from citizens

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<v Speaker 1>about the state of municipal roads, particularly you know, issues

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<v Speaker 1>such as potome. But what we find is that the

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<v Speaker 1>municipal Infrastructure grant is either being used for other budget

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<v Speaker 1>necessities in municipalities or it's being returned to National Treasury.

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<v Speaker 1>So this really is a very important function that provincial

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<v Speaker 1>authorities are also going to have to take on. Otherwise

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<v Speaker 1>we are going to keep having very dissatisfied citizens while

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<v Speaker 1>money is being returned to National Treasury.

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<v Speaker 2>In terms of the driver's license cards, this is a

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<v Speaker 2>machine that is way beyond its life. I do acknowledge

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<v Speaker 2>there have been court cases that may have delayed procedures,

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<v Speaker 2>but this has reached the point where I think a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people are saying this has really got quite ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 2>The technology is advanced. We had an expert on saying

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<v Speaker 2>things that used to take up huge areas and huge rooms,

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<v Speaker 2>machines literally on our desktops. What are the provisions for

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<v Speaker 2>that and what undertakings might the Transport Department give that

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<v Speaker 2>this is going to get sorted out once and for all,

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<v Speaker 2>because it aids a long running story, But it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>sound enormously complicated.

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<v Speaker 1>John, let me say that we've we've signed an MoU

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<v Speaker 1>with the Government Printers because it is necessary to have

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<v Speaker 1>a backup to this very old machine that's currently working

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<v Speaker 1>really hard to try and deal with backlog that has

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<v Speaker 1>accumulated in driver's license cards while the review mechanism on

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<v Speaker 1>the purchase of the new card machine is underway. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to talk about the long term solutions because

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<v Speaker 1>obviously that prejudges the matter. But as you as you

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<v Speaker 1>correctly point out these in the in the modern digital age,

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<v Speaker 1>this is not rocket science anymore. But we have got

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<v Speaker 1>this interim solution with the Government Printer and I hope

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<v Speaker 1>that that is going to help us to eliminate the

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<v Speaker 1>backlog and deal with the justifiable frustration that our citizens

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<v Speaker 1>are facing at the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Minister presumably continued allocations to the Road Accident Fund to

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<v Speaker 2>for its operations, but one of our listeners, Rhon asks

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<v Speaker 2>why there are so many vacancies in transport departments in

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<v Speaker 2>general and particularly at the RAF and lists chief Claims Officer,

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<v Speaker 2>head of Claims Operations, head of Legal and I think

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<v Speaker 2>there are another four or five that they list. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a department or an entity where the CEO

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<v Speaker 2>earns a very large salary. Why are those vacancies allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to persist for as long as they do? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>there are boards for all of these state entities that

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<v Speaker 2>fall under transport. Are the boards failing to do that job?

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<v Speaker 1>I think John that it's no secret that the governance

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<v Speaker 1>at the Road Accident Fund is very problematic. I'm currently

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<v Speaker 1>involved in a process that is attending to those governance matters.

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<v Speaker 1>As soon as we have completed the due process, we

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<v Speaker 1>will be obviously informing the public of that. In addition,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that we do need legislative changes in relation

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<v Speaker 1>to the Road Accident Fund. We need a no fault

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<v Speaker 1>system so that it's easier for those who need to

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<v Speaker 1>benefit from the fund to put in claims. We also

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<v Speaker 1>need a clear schedule of benefits so that there's a

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<v Speaker 1>more equitable distribution of benefits amongst all citizens depending on

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<v Speaker 1>the nature of their claim or their injury. So there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of work that is required to be done there,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is a matter that is receiving my urgent

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<v Speaker 1>attention at the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>And just finally, Minister's suggestion from one of our listeners,

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<v Speaker 2>I suppose a question implicit in this but suggesting that

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<v Speaker 2>legislation that deals with penalties for reckless driving, and he's

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<v Speaker 2>very exercised about many bus taxis, said that this should

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<v Speaker 2>be applied based on the number of passengers whose lives

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<v Speaker 2>are endangered. In other words, if you're transporting thirteen people,

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<v Speaker 2>penalties would be more severe than if you're in a

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<v Speaker 2>vehicle with two people in it. Any thoughts on that,

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<v Speaker 2>is that something that a sounds viable for you? And

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<v Speaker 2>second that you might contemplate.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, John, the new auto system that will come into

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<v Speaker 1>operation on the first of December does have a penalty

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<v Speaker 1>system as well as a fine system, and the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of the penalty system is to try and make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that repeat offenders and miscreens are ultimately eliminated from a

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<v Speaker 1>situation where they have drivers' licenses through this penalty system.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know whether it really deals with a

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<v Speaker 1>number of passengers you have, but definitely your listener would

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<v Speaker 1>be correct in saying that we can't just have a

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<v Speaker 1>situation where we can weak out people are fine for

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<v Speaker 1>the same bad behavior. There has to be long term

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<v Speaker 1>consequences and I think that's what the ARTO system aims

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<v Speaker 1>to achieve.

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<v Speaker 2>Transport Minister Barbara Cristie, thanks very much.