1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Time for a different version of Consumer Talk today because, 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: as we mentioned last week, our regular contributor Wendy Noda 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: is enjoying some well earned leave and she is away 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: for a fortnight, so we're going to be calling on 5 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: a few alternative voices to chat to us in Consumer Talk. 6 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: And today I'm absolutely delighted to welcome to studio Sonnette Ansara, 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: who is the head of Group Legal at personal finance 8 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: site Just Money. That should ring a bell for you 9 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: because we often talk to them in our life hacks 10 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: feature about various aspects of managing personal finances. But today 11 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: we are doing a sort of a deep dive into 12 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: the subject of online shopping and what we need to 13 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: know as shoppers in South Africa about what we can expect, 14 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: what rights are promised to us by what laws, and 15 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: what we should do if those rights are not being 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 1: upheld by the retail as we're buying for So it's 17 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: a great opportunity to pose a question as Gareth has 18 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: already done on an online shopping quandary, and it's great 19 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: to have you with us today, Senete. Well, thank you 20 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: very much and thanks for coming into studio as well. 21 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: Solet is with us for the remainder of this hour, 22 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: so you've got lots of time to get the what'sapps 23 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: through on seven two five six seven one five six seven. 24 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: As always, you're also welcome to send an email to 25 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: Pippa h at cape talk dot co dot za, and 26 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: you can also call us on two one four four 27 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: six o five six seven. 28 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 2: Sinett. 29 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to even imagine it that it 30 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: was only a couple of years ago that online shopping 31 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: was brad new tech that we were early adopters of 32 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: if you were prepared to risk it at all. And 33 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: now virtually everything can be purchased online and some people 34 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: only shop online. It's a space where there's been rapid, 35 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:33,279 Speaker 1: massive growth. 36 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 3: Not so absolutely, you know what, It's just so convenient 37 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 3: and I think it actually ramped up even more after 38 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 3: COVID or since COVID. People don't have to go to 39 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 3: the shops anymore. You can sit in your pajamas, you 40 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 3: can be in bed, you can literally and the fact 41 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 3: that you can do it on your phone late it 42 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 3: just makes it even more accessible than before. People save time, 43 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 3: they save energy, you know, they save on transpercost. You 44 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 3: don't have to go anywhere, and you can do price 45 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 3: comparisons right there, and then it's easy, and then you 46 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: have access to more than one retailer at any given time. 47 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 3: So it is such a nice way of doing things, right, 48 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 3: and we're all busy, yeah, and I mean this, you can, 49 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 3: like I say, you can literally buy anything online. To 50 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 3: be honest, I bought my house in Cape down without 51 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 3: even seeing it, oh my god. Online So that's a 52 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: bit extreme. But you can do that, but yes, with 53 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 3: unfortunately benefit and convenience, because it comes risk as well. 54 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 3: And I think we all know, you know, yeah, it's 55 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 3: just like the rest grows with the benefit ultimately. So yes, 56 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 3: there are obviously common problems when it comes to online shopping. 57 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: It's just it comes with a territory unfortunately, and we're 58 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: going to dive into a couple of those common problems 59 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: over the course of this hour. I mean, to your point, 60 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: I haven't bought a house online, but so then I 61 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: do almost all of my shopping online now except for 62 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: fresh produce. That's the one thing I was still going 63 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: to a store for. But as you said, you're saving 64 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: the petrol driving to the stores, saving exorbitant demands on 65 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: parking fees. It's in some places it's the convenience factor. 66 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: And as you said that, that comparison element is something 67 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: that is so so appealing rather than standing in a 68 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: store trying to remember, oh, okay, so here's the sunlight 69 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: liquid what was it at? 70 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 2: Okay? And now it's this that checkers and woollies. 71 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: You can pick up your phone and do the comparison 72 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: side by side. So there are lots of reasons why 73 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: we do it. 74 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 4: Now. 75 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: The things that go wrong, the kinds of complaints we 76 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: receive are typically around delivery issues, and whether that's the 77 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: delivery that didn't come at all, or the delivery that 78 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: came much later than was promised, or the delivery that 79 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,839 Speaker 1: came with something wrong with it. And then we see 80 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: the category of what happens after that problem emerges, which 81 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: is the refund and return process. But I want us 82 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: to start with another very significant category, which is the 83 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: delivery didn't come at all because the retailer never existed. 84 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: With the rise in online shopping has come the rise 85 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: in fraudulent online platforms that take advantage of us looking 86 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: for convenience. 87 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know what, and I think it's like you say, 88 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 3: it's becoming more and more thing. We did a survey 89 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: last year called Money and Me, and what we found 90 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: is that sixty one percent of our respondents had financial challenges, 91 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: and of our respondents, seventy percent of them chose to 92 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: actually saw based on special offers. That opens the door 93 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 3: to people being exploited unfortunately, either with cone or like 94 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 3: what they call clone websites, inferior products, or just people 95 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 3: that come and go and you never see them again. 96 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 3: So you open yourself up, unfortunately to exploitation when it 97 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: comes to cloned websites, you know what, it happens so quickly. 98 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 3: And I've actually had an experience the other day myself where, 99 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: especially when you come from a social media platform, you 100 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 3: see something you want to buy it, and there's a 101 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: link directly to a website seriously dangerous, you know what. 102 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 3: And it seems to me as if these websites are 103 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 3: more for evalent over certain times of a year, over 104 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 3: faced the periods where are clearances, allegedly black Friday, end 105 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: of season sales, where these things just pop up out 106 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: of nowhere and it looks exactly the same as the 107 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 3: real thing, the real deal. So it's a big thing 108 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 3: at the moment for everybody, and they are red flags 109 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: that you can look for look out for. Obviously, people 110 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 3: need to be diligent and just because you shop on 111 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: a specific website all the time, don't become complacent. Check 112 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 3: every time you shop that it's the right website. 113 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 2: That youre so such an important thing. 114 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: You said that, that's so often we follow the link 115 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: from social media. 116 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: So you're on. 117 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: Facebook and up pops and you know what. Facebook is 118 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: listening all the time. It knows that you had a 119 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: conversation last night, that you know that maybe I'm as 120 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: buy a pair of sketches before my next trip overseas, 121 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: so I've got comfy walking shoes. And then the next 122 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: day pop up comes an ad for sketches on Facebook 123 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: and you go through. 124 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: And you know, so that's so often. 125 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: It's a tiny, tiny difference in the URL that most 126 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: people miss that it's not taking you to the actual 127 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: sketches site. From this example, it's taking you to an 128 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: SCEE CG or s side cheese site or sketchyese. It's 129 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: very sketchy in this case. I'm using it as an 130 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: example not because I want to diss the brand. I 131 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: love the brand, but I actually had this experience and 132 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: I almost almost fell for it, but luckily just noticed 133 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: at the very last. 134 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 2: Minute that there was a spelling error in the UURL. 135 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: They rely on us responding on instinct, seeing the thing 136 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: that we've the very thing we wanted here. It is 137 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: being offered to us at a discount, and everybody loves 138 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: the discount, and so you rush into the purchase. The 139 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: rushing element, I think is something that they they take 140 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: advantage of. It's that somebody quoted something their father used 141 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: to tell them a few months ago. Now I had 142 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: a listener WhatsApp us to say. My dad's great saying 143 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: was if it has to be now, it has to 144 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: be No. They take advantage of that you've got twenty 145 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: minutes left before deal closers or whatever it is, to 146 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: put the time pressure on you and to rush you 147 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: into making that mistake. 148 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: Don't they absolutely. 149 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 3: I'll always say, if there's a timer running and you're 150 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: under tremendous pressure to do something, that's already a red flag. 151 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 3: The other thing that they do is they tell you, oh, 152 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: we only have ten of these items left, so if 153 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 3: you don't buy it now, you're going to miss out. 154 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 3: Any reputable retailer will make sure that there is plenty 155 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 3: stock available and if they don't have they will get more. 156 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 3: They it won't all of a sudden disappear and you 157 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 3: will be left in a lurch ultimately. But the moment 158 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 3: there is under pressure like that. Look, as you know, 159 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 3: there's actually a psychological marketing ploy. A lot of people 160 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 3: use that, you know, because it creates that urgency, and 161 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 3: it creates that you know, like literally like the moment 162 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: they scarcely involved again, coming back to COVID, we all 163 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: know how people went and bought toilet paper for some 164 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 3: other reason. Was this idea that this is going to 165 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 3: be a scarce commodity? In the moment that idea of 166 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 3: scarcity becomes part of your mindset, you have to have 167 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 3: it now, and like it should be a no. Actually, 168 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 3: so anything website where they ask you to only pay 169 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 3: via EFD, big you know, big proper websites where you 170 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 3: see poor spelling or poor english being used, we miss 171 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 3: it because you go straight to the product and you 172 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 3: go straight to pay me now, and before you know it, 173 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 3: you click and it's gone. So it's stuff like that 174 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 3: that you really have to look for. But yess that 175 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 3: that urgency that they create is definitely not a good sign. 176 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 2: You know, they are. 177 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: Masters of psychology. As you said, it's playing on the 178 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: scarcity and the urgency. The other thing they play on 179 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: is the emotional connection. I have lost count of the 180 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: number of SOB stories I've seen on Facebook. Our family 181 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: business of thirty years is closing down. We have to 182 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: retire or we have to move and it's our last 183 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: stock of these handmade leather bags or shoes or dresses 184 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: or whatever they were. And this long post about the 185 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: story behind the brand, and it's it's you know, if 186 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: you know, once you've been alerted to look out for it, 187 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: you see it everywhere soon. Yes, but they are taking 188 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: advantage of that. Wow, you know this is such a 189 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: personal I'm supporting as a small local business, I'm doing 190 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: the right thing, not buying from the big international retailer 191 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: for sure. 192 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 3: I mean the other day when I was looking at 193 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 3: a product, all the reviews that came up on this 194 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 3: website came coming from a link of course was I mean, 195 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: obviously I don't know, the internet picked up that I'm Africa, 196 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 3: and so all the reviews that came up was from 197 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 3: Africa speaking people living in places that I you know, like, 198 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 3: so they make it relatable so that's how clear that 199 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 3: these websites are to actually catch you out. So I 200 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 3: always say, if you want to look at a review, 201 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 3: go and look at some independent platform. If you see that, 202 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 3: if you see a product that you like or something, 203 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 3: try and get out of that link. Go out of 204 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: that social media platform and go and search for it 205 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 3: online and see if you can find official website and 206 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 3: go from there. It's when I did that the other 207 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 3: day where I really liked the product that I wanted 208 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 3: that I realized when I searched it, I couldn't find it. 209 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 3: So it's a lesson that you learn, and most of 210 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 3: us have learned it the hardware. 211 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately, many many of us. So I mean an 212 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: important thing there. So if you are wanting to shop, 213 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: and we're not saying that every link that comes up 214 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: on Facebook is fake, because certainly there are plenty of 215 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: genuine marketers using social media as a platform, but the 216 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: trick is not to follow the link from that post. 217 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: Rather exit the social media platform you're on, go to 218 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: Google or whatever you use, and type in the brand 219 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: you were looking for and find their official website and 220 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: see if you can find it on that site. Because 221 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: if it's not on their own site, Sennetta, it wasn't 222 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: there offer in the first place. 223 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 3: I totally agree. 224 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 225 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: The other thing Caro flagging saying they use well known 226 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: people to promote the items, and that is becoming increasingly 227 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: a problem in the era of deep fakes. As AI 228 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: gets better and better, you see your favorite celeb or 229 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: somebody you rarely trust to, you know, to think of 230 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: as a credible personality endorsing a brand chancers Art's not 231 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: even them. It might be a very clever AI rendition 232 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: of your favorite radio presenter recommending a product. 233 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 3: Now, And I mean that's what they do like because 234 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 3: it creates affinity. It creates that connection with somebody that 235 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 3: you really like, and like I say, they use relatable 236 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 3: characters to you to do this. So yes, I mean 237 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 3: you have to take your ad after them. And they 238 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 3: are getting. 239 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: Better and it's scary how good they are getting added. 240 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: I've seen a couple of late where it's it's really 241 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: impressively like where the look of the page is identical 242 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: to the main brand and it's just the tiniest little details. 243 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: I also want to just emphasize something you said there 244 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: about where to find reviews, because it's very easy to 245 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: click on. Okay, say, let me search reviews for this product, 246 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: but half the time the first click is going to 247 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: take you back to the fake page and their own 248 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: reviews that they've fraudulently created. Exactly do you recommend any 249 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: particular platforms for independent I mean Hello Peter is one. 250 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people go to how else 251 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: to look for an independent review platform? 252 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 3: I know a lot of companies. You stress Pilot as well, Okay, 253 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 3: I guess read it as well, Okay, And that's basically 254 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 3: it's I think, you know, if you will get a 255 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 3: pretty good idea of what's going on in the markets 256 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 3: on those websites and also normally the beautible retailers. We 257 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 3: have an account with these companies that can actually they 258 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 3: can reply to these complaints because you have to physically 259 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 3: have an account with Hello Peter. I know as a brand, 260 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 3: we have one so that you can address complaints properly 261 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 3: on that specific platform. So if you see that there's 262 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 3: a complaint and nobody's really answered on behalf of the retailer, 263 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 3: then you must also know that there's something wrong about that. 264 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: Okay. 265 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: That's also a good one to look out for. We 266 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: are in conversation with Sinnet Ansara, head of Group Legal 267 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: at Personal Finance Just Money, talking specifically about online shopping 268 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: today and we're getting some great comments and questions from listeners, 269 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: which we are going to get to after the Eyewitness 270 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: News headlines. Just before we go to the headlines, though, Sinnette, 271 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: I want to also just raise awareness of the fact 272 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: that we are we're prone to falling for these scams 273 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: in South Africa quite frequently because there is a general 274 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: lack of good financial. 275 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: Savvy, if I can put it that way. 276 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: Those who've done maths literacy have got some of it 277 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: through the curriculum, but for a lot of us, we 278 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: get to the end of the school curriculum. I certainly 279 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: got to the end of the school curriculum never having 280 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: engaged with the concept of buying an item, and you know, 281 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: interest and compound interest in a lot of financial concepts. 282 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: And I don't know what it's like in schools today 283 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: because obviously when I was particulating, online shopping didn't exist. 284 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: It wouldn't for any decades, I know. 285 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: But financial literacy is a challenge in this country generally, 286 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: can I put it that way. 287 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 3: It's definitely a challenge and I think do make it 288 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 3: even worse is the fact that people don't read these 289 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 3: and sees. They don't understand, like you say, interest rates. 290 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: They don't understand when you're on the site and there's there's, 291 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 3: for instance, a down payment process, how interests would work 292 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 3: on the specific purchase. They don't look at complaints, internal 293 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 3: complaints policies. They they don't look at privacy policies. And 294 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 3: it's just the way we are wired. We are just 295 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 3: not interested in those kinds of things. So sometimes it's 296 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 3: a bit of ill literacy. But sometimes it's also just 297 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 3: to sheer lack of interest or instead of spending that 298 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 3: five minutes reading through the t's and c's and realize, oh, okay, 299 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 3: these guys only give straw credit. I wouldn't like that, 300 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 3: you know, when I do this and something goes wrong, Yeah, 301 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 3: it's it's I think it's just a story, you know, 302 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 3: like a perfect storm. E Literacy is a big, big 303 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 3: driver of this. 304 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: But then also a lack of. 305 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 3: Awareness and a lack of finding out, a lack of 306 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 3: effort interview and you know what they do the is 307 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 3: and c's or twenty long. 308 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: So he's going to read all of that fine print. 309 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: But this is why you should read all of that 310 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: fine print. Okay, Now, after the break, we're going to 311 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: we'll just briefly remind ourselves about the relevant legislation that 312 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: governs online shopping in South Africa, and then we can 313 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: address a couple of common threads coming through here, returns 314 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: and refunds being one of them, third party vendors being another. 315 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about if you've got a question 316 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: around online shopping, whether you want to ask a question, 317 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: share an experience where something went wrong or where you 318 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: fell for a scam and you want to alert others, 319 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: you're very welcome to do so. And if you're embarrassed 320 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: to put your name to it, you're very welcome to 321 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: do so anonymously. By the way, just Papa, what's up 322 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: through to seven two five six seven one five six seven. 323 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: If you do want it to be anonymous, please put 324 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: the word anonymous as the very first word of the message. 325 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: Save talk what's on seven to two five six seven 326 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: one five six seven. 327 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 4: Hi, We had an even worse one. We went onto 328 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 4: a genuine website. Everything about it looked totally je looked 329 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 4: at a product, liked it, made the inquiries, got emails 330 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 4: back and forth and made a payment by an EFT 331 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 4: and bang that was the last we ever heard from them. 332 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 4: So the other scary thing is that when we reported 333 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 4: it to the bank's fraud department, my own bank and 334 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 4: then the other bank, both of them just did nothing 335 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 4: about it. What really is annoying is that the other 336 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 4: bank should be able to have record of who that 337 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 4: account hold is and be able to trace them and 338 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 4: reverse the transaction. So banks not reversing EFT transactions is 339 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 4: also another problem. 340 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry you had that experience, and unfortunately it's 341 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: all too common now. While we're talking about what to 342 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: do about the fraud, we may be getting a little 343 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: bit ahead of ourselves, and that maybe the one thing 344 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: we should have done sooner in this conversation is talk 345 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: a little bit about the laws which are in place 346 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: protecting us when we operate in online shopping spaces. Just 347 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 1: for anybody who's just tuned in, by the way, our 348 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: guest in studio today is Sanet and Sarah from personal 349 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: finance website Just Money. She is the head of group 350 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: Legal there and talking to us about online shopping pros 351 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: and cons and pitfalls. Which laws do we need to 352 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: be mindful of that operate in this space. 353 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 3: A South Africa as we actually have quite a robust 354 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 3: legal framework to protect consumers. It's underpinned bar three pieces 355 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 3: of legislation. The one is the Electronic Communications and Transactions 356 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 3: Act that deals mostly with e commerce, so anything online 357 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 3: is governed by that, and that gives retailers some guidelines 358 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 3: that actually lay down the rules in terms of what 359 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 3: retailers should do online in e commerce, for instance, on 360 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,959 Speaker 3: a website, for instance, full business address, company vehicle registration, 361 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 3: physical address, contact information, client service information, pricing, disclosure about 362 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 3: pricing and does pricing include VAT, does that include a 363 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 3: handling fee? Is delivery included in your pricing? Those kind 364 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: of things need to be disclosed. Then a complaints resolution 365 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 3: policy needs to be there, returns and refund policy needs 366 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 3: to be there. So that's just some of the things 367 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 3: that are required in terms of the EAST Act. And 368 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 3: then the second one I think we all know about 369 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 3: it the Consumer Protection Acts CPA, that deals more with 370 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 3: what consumers can expect in a sense, so as we 371 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 3: all know, consumers or have the right to receive goods 372 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 3: that match description which they buy. They have the right 373 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 3: to save products they have to write to good quality 374 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 3: products that are durable for a reasonable time. Obviously it's 375 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 3: different when you buy a car to a piece of clothing, 376 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 3: but it needs to be reasonable and a product needs 377 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 3: it's to be suitable for its intended purpose. Remember that'schoia. 378 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 3: It needs to really intended purpose, but that kind of 379 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 3: And it also gives you the guidelines of how to complain, 380 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 3: how to escalate complaints, how to actually yeah, basically enforce 381 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 3: those consumer rights afford the two in terms of a CPI, 382 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: and then the third one I think a lot of 383 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 3: people forget about it is the Popy Act, the Detection 384 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 3: of Personal Information Act. When you transact online, you by 385 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 3: default disclose a lot of your personal information, and we 386 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 3: forget about that. So retailers have a duty by law 387 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 3: to make sure that they collect your information only for 388 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 3: the intended purpose of this transaction. They need your consent 389 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 3: about what they do with it, would they share it 390 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 3: with whether they transfer across border. They can't just do 391 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 3: certain things of it. They need to be very clear 392 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 3: about the purpose for the collection, and they need to 393 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 3: keep it safe obestly and if I don't know, if 394 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 3: you've ever seen on the website, they ask you can 395 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 3: we keep your information for future. If you say yes, 396 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,719 Speaker 3: it's fine, they can keep it and they can use 397 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 3: it again. But if you say no, it needs to 398 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 3: be distructed immediately after that transaction, they cannot keep it. 399 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 3: And then the last thing is in terms of the 400 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 3: Poppy Act, just because you consent it to share your 401 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 3: information once doesn't mean that you cannot retract it. You 402 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 3: can retract retract that consent from a retailer. But Jay, 403 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 3: it's very important and very you know what, your personal 404 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 3: information is so valuable and it's a commodity and you 405 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 3: need to protect it because it can be used in 406 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 3: such awful ways against you. So anyway, so those three 407 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 3: pieces of legislation most important. 408 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: Okay, So I mean that, as you said, that's a 409 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: robust framework. The promises are there about what we should expect. 410 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: Now obviously, the immediate sort of takeaway from that, so 411 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: that is, if you come across a site that doesn't 412 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: have those things on it, that's a red flag. If 413 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,239 Speaker 1: you can't find a physical address, if there isn't a 414 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: proper you know, dispute resolution mechanism laid out, if it 415 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: doesn't have the information you want about search arges etc. 416 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: That's a big red flag that this is not a 417 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: compliant business. And even it might be a legitimate business 418 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: offering you a legitimate sale on their website, but are 419 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: they going to follow the rules on everything else that follows? 420 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: I would ask myself, if you're not following the rules 421 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: in terms of what's on your website, what are you 422 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: going to say when the product arrives and. 423 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 2: I need to return it? For example? Are you going 424 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 2: to follow the rules there exactly? 425 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 3: You know what, compliance creates credibility, and credibility creates strust 426 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: for a consumer. So if you are a decent business owner, 427 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 3: you will make sure that your website complies with all 428 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 3: these things. Just to come back to your listener and 429 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 3: what he told us now, and that's one thing I 430 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 3: actually also flagged as EFT payments big red flag. You 431 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 3: know what, I've actually done some research and credit card 432 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 3: payments are much safer because that transactions and first go 433 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 3: to an intermediary which is the bank, before it actually 434 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 3: comes out of your own bank account or your fund specifically, 435 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 3: so there's a process calling charge back where that transaction 436 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 3: can be reversed within a specific time, which is reasonable. 437 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 3: But the moment you pay with EFD, you author us 438 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 3: that payment. It comes straight off your bank account. So 439 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 3: that is why the banks don't want to take accountability 440 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 3: for that. Look, I still think the listener can probably 441 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: approach the banking orbit about. 442 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 2: This and see what they can do. 443 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 3: I do feel that banking facilities and authorities need to 444 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 3: take a bit more accountability and ownership when it comes 445 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 3: to these things, because it's real and it's becoming more 446 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 3: and more. Just to tell a client, oh sorry, it's 447 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 3: not our problem, and for the other receiving bank to say, 448 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 3: oh sorry, we cannot actually disclose the banking deal or 449 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 3: the account holder of the receiving account is also not 450 00:22:59,160 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 3: where there's been a. 451 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:01,959 Speaker 2: Fraud, which is a criminal offense. 452 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 3: I think there would be, you know, but they make 453 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 3: you jump for so many that you just give up, unfortunately, 454 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 3: and that is what's so sad about that. And again 455 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 3: that is not a consumer right. Your consumer right is 456 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 3: actually be. 457 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: Heard, okay, and we'll talk about on but again a 458 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: little bit later in this conversation. I want to go 459 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: to another listener message because it raises I think one 460 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: of the key categories of things I want us to 461 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: flag today, which is the issue of third party vendors 462 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: on sales platforms. Gareth writes to say, I purchased a 463 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: coffee frothit from take a Lot at an advertised price 464 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: of just under four hundred rand all fine. Then on 465 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: the day it was to be delivered, I got a 466 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: cancelation note saying the supplier has no stock, but we 467 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: will refund you your money back. My issue is no 468 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: other company offers that product at that price, and at 469 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: the time they accepted my money, Surely they should have 470 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: made a plan to make sure there were stock to 471 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: honor the purchase. Isn't that false advertising? Now there's this 472 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: is a couple of issues because my immediate thought is 473 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 1: that was probably a third party supplier offering the coffee 474 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: froth on the takelot platform. Was it Takelot's job to 475 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: make sure that there was stock available we're hosting that advert. 476 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 3: No, it is. Unfortunately normally with these bigger platforms, it's 477 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 3: the third party seller that is responsible still for the 478 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 3: delivery and the compliance and to make sure that that 479 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 3: promise is actually kept. The marketplace or what you want 480 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 3: to call it, forum facilitate the transaction and they would 481 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 3: even facilitate the payment. They will facilitate even a return 482 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 3: or whatever the case might be, even a refund, but 483 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 3: they are not the party responsible for the actual product. Unfortunately, 484 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 3: I had exactly the same thing happening to me last year, 485 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: where my delivery was just kicked out and kicked out 486 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 3: and kicked down the road, and then weeks later I 487 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 3: was advised that that product is unfortunately not available anymore. 488 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 3: So I don't think you can really hold a forum responsible. 489 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 3: They deal with millions of food body sellers on their website. 490 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: My advice is always when you when you shop on 491 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 3: these platforms, make sure that you also understand the guarantees 492 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 3: they give you and read the actual seller when you 493 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 3: go onto their website. Make sure you understand their decencies 494 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 3: and their return policies and what they're about. 495 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: I have noticed that they stay quite prominently this is 496 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: this order will be processed by a third party vendor, 497 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: I think is the phrasing they use. So what you're 498 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 1: saying is if you the minute you see that, you 499 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: need to drill down into that vendor's policies, not the take. 500 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yes, just because you shop on takeload doesn't mean 501 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 3: that you're going to get a takelot guarantee. 502 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry that it happened to you, Gareth. 503 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: And yeah, the frustration is when I mean the long delays, 504 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: I think of what some people find so frustrating, Gareth. 505 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assuming that you got your money back 506 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: at least is I think you know obviously what was 507 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: due to you. But people, the frustration is you could 508 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: have in the meantime sourced that product somewhere else and 509 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: been having your cappuccino every boarding in the meantime. Roy 510 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: is asking whether snapscan is a trusted way to shop online. 511 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: He says, at the moment, I have no online presence 512 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: and I'm just so wary of being scammed. 513 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 3: I don't know much about snapscan, to be honest. Look, 514 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 3: I guess, like with anything, like you say, like you're 515 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 3: a first adapted to anything, it's either going to work 516 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 3: or it's not. Or you know, like with anything, there's 517 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 3: always a chance that somebody is going to find a 518 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 3: loop war somewhere and something happens. When I was living overseas, 519 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 3: you could use your cell phone and you get this 520 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: little boco that you can just scan and then this 521 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 3: payment goes through automatically. So there's certain ways or payment 522 00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 3: methodology that can be used Snapscan seems to be quite legitimate. 523 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: I've had of it, Roy, I mean a personal experience. 524 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: I've used it for online transactions many many times, and 525 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: I've never ever once had any pushback or problem or 526 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: any sense that my details had been shared. I never 527 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,959 Speaker 1: saw a sudden spike in spam coming through afterwards anything 528 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: like that. So from personal experience, I've been fine with it. Yeah, 529 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 1: anybody else listening has had the opposite, please do let 530 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: us know. 531 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 2: Thank you. 532 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 1: Gareth just confirming he did get the funds back for 533 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: his refund on the coffee profest. So that's I mean, 534 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: that's the main promise in law that had to be 535 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: delivered to you, Gareth. So I'm relieved to hear that. 536 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 2: Okay. Steve's message. 537 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: Flagging a very common scam, and it's becoming increasingly common 538 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: with the number of courier services that are being used 539 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: by the online platforms, because, of course some of the 540 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: online retailers have their own delivery services, but many of 541 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: them use a third party career, and particularly I know 542 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: people are falling for this because of the amount of 543 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: shopping that's been done on overseas platforms. Steven brackenfell right 544 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: this morning, I received an email from the courier guy 545 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: reminding me to reply only to this email so that 546 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 1: they can release my parcel, which. 547 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 2: I had never ordered. 548 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: He said, Now, quite often the scam is an SMS 549 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: saying there are fees do you on your parcel? Click 550 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: here on this link to pay them to release it. 551 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 2: And it happened to me. 552 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: I placed an order on an international site, and I 553 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: knew that there was going to be a message coming 554 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: telling me to pay the customs. And six hours later, 555 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: I think I got an SMS and I almost clicked 556 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: on it, and something just made me go, let's just 557 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: double check that this is the same reference number, and 558 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: it wasn't. It was a scam, and they come so 559 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: often now I probably received four or five of those 560 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: messages a week from for so called payments on orders 561 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: I know I haven't made. So, if you have legitimately 562 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: made a purchase on an overseas site, and you know 563 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: whether it's Shane tim you or any other vendor, and 564 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: you know that there are going to be customs, do 565 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: you never never, never click on that link until you 566 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: have checked that the reference number match is the order 567 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: number of your legitimate order set. 568 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 2: It's such a common one these days exactly. 569 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 3: And also when they do send your message, check because 570 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 3: your delivery is supposed to be included in your transaction 571 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 3: amount that you've already paid. So if it is an 572 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 3: international purchase that you've made, yes, there could be some 573 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 3: customs fees deal, but again you've given a good tip. 574 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 3: Now make sure that does reference from vers, just like 575 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 3: match up. Ultimately, if it's a some African transaction that 576 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 3: you've done, in terms of our CPI and in terms 577 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 3: of the Electronic Communications Act, the retailer should actually include 578 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 3: the delivery fee in your final payment amount. So there 579 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 3: is no reason under the sun. While you should get 580 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 3: an SMS or email from a career company saying there's 581 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 3: an additional career fee deal before we can release your package, 582 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 3: that's nonsense. The same with that, the same with any 583 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 3: handling fees. So the moment you get anything like that, 584 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 3: you must know that something is wrong. 585 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 2: That's a good tip, so okay. 586 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: So genuinely, if you're buying from an international platform, you 587 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: know that customers will be due, yes, and so you 588 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: should expect to have to make a customers payment. But 589 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: if you're being asked for that kind of handling fee 590 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: or something like that by a local supposedly a local retailer. 591 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 2: There's a problem. 592 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: I'm emphasizing supposedly because Sinnet and I were just chatting 593 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: in the Brake Senet. The horrible thing about this, besides 594 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: the element of the consumer being scammed, is the damage 595 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: that is being done to legitimate brands when their site 596 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: is cloned or when their brand, you know, Courier Guy 597 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: being a case in point. It's a perfectly legitimate courier 598 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: service and you know, yes, they may have their legitimate 599 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: problems and they have their resolution mechanisms, but here is 600 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: their name being taken in vain sending out a phishing 601 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: SMS to Steve and Brackenfell. It's not from the Courier Guy. 602 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: It's from a scam artist sitting who knows where in 603 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: the world. But the damage done is the reputation of 604 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: Career Guy is impacted. 605 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 2: Senate. 606 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 3: It is very sad, especially when you as a brand 607 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 3: really tries so odd to be rebutable and to comply 608 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 3: with everything. But you know, like yeah, unfortunately, you know 609 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,479 Speaker 3: they will they will dog at these bigger guys because 610 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 3: they know they've got a known brand and they've got 611 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 3: that brand recognition and trust already, so they pray on that, 612 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 3: you know. Unfortunately it's very sad. 613 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: Just for anybody who's tuned in late this afternoon. Our 614 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: guest in studio with me today Sinnett n Sorrow from 615 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: Just Money, which is a fabulous website if you're looking 616 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: for practical advice around personal finance issues. 617 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 2: So that's their head of group legal. 618 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: And chatting to us about the ins and outs and 619 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: legalities around online shopping in South Africa. Now I can, 620 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: with one eye on the clock marching away from us SNET. 621 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: I'd like to leave our listeners with some sort of 622 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: positive strategies to take away from this. And you've mentioned 623 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: several red flags to look out for. You've spoken about 624 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: the things to be mindful of, but should we just 625 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: run through some steps to protect ourselves If you are 626 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: going to be transacting online and making purchases online, You've 627 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: spoken about looking for the legit website address, not just 628 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: following a link. You also recommend in your notes to 629 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: me that people take a lot of screenshots through this process. 630 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 3: You want to elaborate there, You know what I always say, 631 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 3: Until the transaction is completed and you're happy with your 632 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 3: product and you know for sure that you're not going 633 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 3: to send anything back or you're going to ask for 634 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 3: the refund. Keep all the proof of that transaction from 635 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 3: the beginning to the end, whether it's an email, whether 636 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 3: it is a screenshot. It could be a screenshot of 637 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 3: the actual pricing or the product listing. Save your order confirmations, 638 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 3: save your tracking numbers, keep every piece of evidence in 639 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 3: that order trail. You may just need it later. If 640 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 3: at some stage you get to a point where it's needed, 641 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 3: then you actually have it all at hand. And I 642 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 3: always say, if you want to escalate a complaint, I 643 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 3: always tell my clients, make sure. 644 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 2: That you exhaust all the. 645 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 3: Make it that retailer give you online. If they have 646 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 3: a complaints policy, please follow it before you jump to 647 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 3: anything else. So make sure you exhaust the And also 648 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 3: when you actually contact the retailer with an issue, be 649 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 3: clear first of all about what your issue is and 650 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 3: what it is that you want. Do you want to repair, 651 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 3: do you want a replacement, or do you want a refund. 652 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 3: People don't have crystal balls, So in order to resolve 653 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 3: your complaint to your satisfaction, be clear, don't be vague. 654 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 3: And also the clearer you are, and the more information 655 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 3: you can give them upfront when you complain, the quicker 656 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 3: these things seem to be resolved. Obviously, if it's a 657 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 3: bit of a dodgy retailer, or there's an issue and 658 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 3: it cannot be resolved and you need to escalate that, 659 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 3: there is obviously the consumer goods and services on but 660 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 3: that you can approach. You can go to the National 661 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 3: Consumer Commission and if they cannot resolve it, they will 662 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 3: often for you to the consumer Tribunal. Our lost little 663 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 3: bit is I think a lot of us can't resist 664 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 3: it to actually go on to social media and start 665 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 3: posting about this terrible experience that you've had online, about 666 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 3: this specific greta. I mean we've seen it now with 667 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 3: all the messages coming through. You know what. There's a 668 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 3: place in time for social media, but please don't use 669 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 3: it as your first port of call. Use it really 670 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 3: as your last last resort to do anything. And if 671 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 3: you do want to post something on social media, make 672 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 3: sure it's factual, keep it classy, no insults, no threats, 673 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 3: and first of all, it doesn't replace the formal complaints 674 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 3: mechanism available to you. Just remember that it may put 675 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 3: some pressure on a reputable retailer, but it's definitely not 676 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,720 Speaker 3: going to help with somebody that's dodgy in any event. 677 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 3: But yes, just be alert, be alert, and take some 678 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 3: time back, that extra few minutes to check something out 679 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 3: before you do it you hit send. 680 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 2: On the payment. 681 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: Here, I'm going to echo what you've just said about 682 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: the going through. And I'm guilty of this myself. I 683 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: know it is tempting sometimes, you know, in huge frustration 684 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: you go to social media. But we see it, Wendy, No, no, 685 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: and I see it often. So let that people come 686 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: to us with a complaint. And then when you go 687 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 1: back and say, what is it that you are actually 688 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: wanting from us? Are you wanting the item returned? Are 689 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: you wanting your money back? And sometimes the response is 690 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: just no, I just want to let people know about 691 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: how terrible. 692 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 2: The service is. 693 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: Legally, you know, if you've got the factors to back 694 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: up what your experience has been, then okay, you can 695 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: look at it a public service to alert people to 696 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: a scam or whatever it may be. But that articulation 697 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: of actually what is the help you are looking for? 698 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: If you do that up front, it's so much easier 699 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: for the brand itself to just deal with your dispute 700 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: and resolve it for you in the way you want 701 00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: it resolved. 702 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 3: Good, clear coming resolve a lot of disputes and very 703 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 3: quickly as well. But yeah, unfortunately, as a business owner, 704 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,720 Speaker 3: you need to understand what it is that the consumer wants. 705 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: Okay, to keep that in mind, I think it's a 706 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: very fair point. We don't all have crystal balls, and 707 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: retailers don't have crystal balls, and sometimes when you come 708 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: to them with a complaint, just taking a few extra 709 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,280 Speaker 1: minutes to check that email and ask have I clearly 710 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: communicated what my issue was and what I want them 711 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: to do about it will resolve a lot of frustration 712 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: on their sign as well as yours. Okay, so you've 713 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: mentioned the ombits there and yep, Shita's just messaged saying, 714 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: I too received that scam message from Career Guy. I 715 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: reported the issue to Coreer Guy, but they did nothing 716 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: about it. Well, it never came from Career Guys. So 717 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: does Korea Guy bear any obligation to do anything about it? 718 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 2: You know what? 719 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 3: I think except for the reputational damage that they have, 720 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,720 Speaker 3: there's not much that they can do because they probably 721 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 3: don't know where it's coming from, you know. So I 722 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 3: think it's very difficult for a trust the brand to 723 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 3: go through something like that because you kind of your 724 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 3: your hands are died. So I'm not sure why they 725 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 3: haven't actually applied it, you know, like at all. That's 726 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,320 Speaker 3: it's quite strange. But yes, I mean there is not 727 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 3: much that they can do. 728 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Yeah, I mean it wasn't It was never generated 729 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: by them in the first place, she hitter. 730 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 2: So it's very difficult for them to trace. 731 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: And if they had to spend their time tracing every 732 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: one of those fake messages, they wouldn't be able to 733 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: offer the service they were built on. 734 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 3: Completely different business. 735 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, just to finish with a message from Zooks, she's saying, 736 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: I absolutely second what you said about screenshotting everything, especially 737 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: t's and c's that can be changed after the fact. 738 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: That's a very good point and quite a scary one. 739 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: So if you record everything that is on the you know, 740 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: the brand promise that you have brought into, if you've 741 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: got your photograph proving what it is that you thought 742 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: you were buying, that that's that's a really hardcore thing 743 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: to fall back on when things go wrong. 744 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 3: So Nett. 745 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, such valuable information and such practical 746 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: information that you've shared with us today. 747 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 2: It's been to have real pleasure having you with us. 748 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 3: Thank you very much. It it was nice being here. 749 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: And reminder please to go and visit the Just Money 750 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: website if you are looking for this kind of advice 751 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: and help with other financial, personal finance and financial literacy issues. 752 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: It's a great great resource to tap into. Thanks for 753 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: joining us today.