WEBVTT - Top forensic auditor killed

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let's focus our attention now on a real tragedy

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<v Speaker 1>out in Ikuruleni, the murder of its forensic audit head,

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<v Speaker 1>Paul Marfole, fatally shot in a drive by shooting that

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<v Speaker 1>is taking place on the R twenty three in the

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<v Speaker 1>late hours of Monday afternoon. This is something that has

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<v Speaker 1>happened before. It's happened to a number of people. Babita

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<v Speaker 1>Diorkaran is somebody who comes to mind, but there have

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<v Speaker 1>been many, many others. Indeed, the two members of the

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<v Speaker 1>Clutter family who were assassinated I think on the m

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<v Speaker 1>one heading towards Pretoria, and there are others as well.

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<v Speaker 1>What's going on here? Chad Thomas's CEO of IRS Forensic

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<v Speaker 1>Investigations and very very familiar with the risks of doing

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of work. Chat Thomas, Welcome and thanks very

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<v Speaker 1>much for your time. Do you generally know when things

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<v Speaker 1>are becoming dangerous and when the person that is being

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<v Speaker 1>investigated with you doing the work might do something as

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<v Speaker 1>evil and desperate as this? And I asked that question

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<v Speaker 1>because people say, well, at what point, should for example,

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<v Speaker 1>auditors in a government department start getting protection? Are there

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<v Speaker 1>warning signs that really ought to be heated and can

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<v Speaker 1>be clearly understood.

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<v Speaker 2>Good oftening to you and the listeners. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>a very dangerous environment. It was something in the past

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<v Speaker 2>where there was almost an unsaid respect between the underworld

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<v Speaker 2>and those that try to enforce the law by investigating.

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<v Speaker 2>They were hands off prosecutors were hands off magistrates, hands

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<v Speaker 2>or investigators' hands off auditors or hands orf for this

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<v Speaker 2>seems to have changed the dynamic. Nows. It's easier to

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<v Speaker 2>sort out a problem with a bullet that it is

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<v Speaker 2>to allow somebody to testify against you, to have an

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<v Speaker 2>investigation progressed to the next stage, and you must understand

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<v Speaker 2>what the state capacity issues. They are very reliant or

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<v Speaker 2>reports by auditors, investigators and legal practic and it's those

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<v Speaker 2>reports that guide them and are able to give them

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<v Speaker 2>a roadmap as into watch a subpoena, the listed clothes

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<v Speaker 2>of money where it went. So, Yes, the short and

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<v Speaker 2>simple answer to your question is yes, auditors, investigators and

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<v Speaker 2>other professionals in that space are now at risk.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an alarming thing, isn't it. Because we heard earlier

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<v Speaker 1>today Clement had people calling in and sharing experiences and

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<v Speaker 1>they were talking. One of them was saying that a

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<v Speaker 1>family member also had threats to their children for example.

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<v Speaker 1>All of that I would think doesn't excuse a failure

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<v Speaker 1>to protect, but it does suggest it's complicated.

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<v Speaker 2>It is complicated because your investigators, your auditors, they don't

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<v Speaker 2>qualify for witness protection. We've seen where a police officer

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<v Speaker 2>who's investigating some serious, murderful higher cases involving some high

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<v Speaker 2>profile names, is traveling around with the special task force

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<v Speaker 2>they've been allocated to protect her. And it's a bizarre

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<v Speaker 2>situation to see a police officer arriving with a special

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<v Speaker 2>task force taking up positions to ensure her safety. She's

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<v Speaker 2>a police officer, this is her vocation, this is what

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<v Speaker 2>she does, but she now needs protection because she's doing

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<v Speaker 2>her job. We as IRIS Friends Investigations, had an office

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<v Speaker 2>invasion with a suspect and fifteen armed people in the

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<v Speaker 2>early part of twenty nineteen. That case is still ongoing

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<v Speaker 2>in court. Luckily the mastermind is behind bars. He wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>given bail. But the escalation over the years just shows

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<v Speaker 2>how embold and criminals have become. Because, like I said,

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<v Speaker 2>at the outset of the inserts, there was this respect,

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<v Speaker 2>there was a line that was never crossed. You never

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<v Speaker 2>went for the tops, you never went for the prosecutors,

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<v Speaker 2>and it now seems that that line is being crossed

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<v Speaker 2>all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>In terms of how the state can do this better.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think it's fair to say, Chad Thomas,

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<v Speaker 1>that there is no shortage of VIP protection staff. You

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<v Speaker 1>just have to look at the budgets. You can also

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<v Speaker 1>look at the blue lights that are coming up fast

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<v Speaker 1>behind you and say that these resources are available. From

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<v Speaker 1>what you know, I mean, does the state prioritize in

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<v Speaker 1>any way people who are corruption busters and offer them

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if they would be from the VIP

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<v Speaker 1>Protection unit, but presumably some division of the police ought

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<v Speaker 1>to have capacity and commitments on this. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>We're seeing this now. I mentioned to the investigating officer

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<v Speaker 2>in some high profile murder for higher cases, she has

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<v Speaker 2>a detailed special force of special Taskforce members that are

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<v Speaker 2>looking after her and her team. We're see more and

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<v Speaker 2>more where organizations are creating a protection bubble around the investigators,

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<v Speaker 2>around their auditors. We're seeing it moving a lot in

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<v Speaker 2>the private sector. We've see municipalities and metros doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>But from a capacity perspective, one looks at Chaltoner. There

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<v Speaker 2>were stories that he was meant to have been protected

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<v Speaker 2>because he was investigating the gang Underworld. He was meant

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<v Speaker 2>to have a close protection detail looking ouk him at

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<v Speaker 2>all times. That didn't materialize, and if you think about

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<v Speaker 2>the levels of time in South Africa, there's just not

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<v Speaker 2>enough people to offer that kind of protection. We see

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<v Speaker 2>white life brigades now where the rich and famous can

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<v Speaker 2>employ these brigades of security officers to protect them from

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<v Speaker 2>kidnapping and extortion. But when it comes to the actual investigators,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a reluctance on the part of the state, but

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<v Speaker 2>also a capacity issue on the part of the states

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<v Speaker 2>to extend the resources of protection.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much, Chad Thomas of IRAS Forensic Investigations