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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two, let's walk little.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

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Speaker 2: by Abste Islamic Business Bank celebrating twenty years of banking

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Speaker 2: rooted in values. Good evening, Welcome to the program. I'm

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Speaker 2: Stephen Curtis. Nine minutes now after six the time. Good

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Speaker 2: to have you along with us. Quite a strange story

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Speaker 2: in a way in the WN bulletin about Parks Sow

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Speaker 2: confirming there's been a sort of US investigation. We don't

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Speaker 2: know all of the details, but it does seem, really,

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Speaker 2: I suppose, as kind of part of what the Trump

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Speaker 2: administration would do. Frankly, and aren't we in this quite

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Speaker 2: bizarre situation where you have Trump suddenly out of nowhere saying, well,

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Speaker 2: he's called off the attacks on Iran's energy infrastructure for

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Speaker 2: five days because their talks underway, Uranian state media saying

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Speaker 2: that's not true. You kind of never really get to

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Speaker 2: the bottom of it. And people on opposite sides of

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Speaker 2: something are often talking and won't confirm it. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this happens often until they have a final announcement. But

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Speaker 2: the markets, I mean, will oil drop by around fourteen percent.

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Speaker 2: It was just astonishing to watch that play out. So

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Speaker 2: really quite Something will obviously get a whole lot on

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Speaker 2: it because there's so many people we need to speak to.

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Speaker 2: Will speak to Azar Jamin, the chief economists at Econometrics,

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Speaker 2: and Eazac Werdendhal, the investment strategist at Old Mutual Wealth.

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Speaker 2: Very concerned about what's happening with smelters. Yappy Fullowd's the

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Speaker 2: CEO at Glencore Alloys, and you'll know they still need

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Speaker 2: a cheaper tariff sixty three cents a killer what hour

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Speaker 2: basically for electricity to make it work, and we have

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Speaker 2: very little information about those negotiations. We just don't know

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Speaker 2: where they're going. Really positive news from Advitech. They saying

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Speaker 2: today that essentially they've made two billion round in profit.

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Speaker 2: It's a huge amount of money and when you think

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Speaker 2: about the actual market for private education, you can understand

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Speaker 2: why you'd be able to make money out of it.

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Speaker 2: Certainly they're investing for the future. You'll hear from him

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Speaker 2: at around twenty to seven. And Moses downed or Is

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Speaker 2: the CEO Tungala Resources. They've had a difficult time really

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Speaker 2: because the rand's been too strong could all change now,

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Speaker 2: because who knows what's going to happen with energy prices.

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Speaker 2: Lots to come this evening that you hear from me

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Speaker 2: of course on No Double one double A three zero

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Speaker 2: seven two two one four four six O five six seven.

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Speaker 3: The Lonely Show with Stephen Krutz lyon on ninety two

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Speaker 3: point seven and one O six FM, streaming on the

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Speaker 3: Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 4: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: So obviously one of the things that really happened over

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Speaker 2: the weekend was the liv Golf tournament, and you might

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Speaker 2: well have been there. I wasn't, ha had various family things

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Speaker 2: that I was doing. But I would like to ask

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Speaker 2: if you were there, if you were just watching it

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Speaker 2: on TV, and we know how important this is, how

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Speaker 2: big a thing this is for Joe Berg, for South Africa.

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Speaker 2: I would ask, I think two questions, what would be

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Speaker 2: the thing you enjoyed the most, whatever it was, what

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Speaker 2: you enjoyed the most. And then the other thing is

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Speaker 2: i'd sort of also ask what would you change an

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Speaker 2: event that size I think was ninety thousand people were there,

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Speaker 2: you know there must be something that you would change,

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Speaker 2: maybe the parking, maybe the traffic. I think you were

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Speaker 2: probably discouraged from taking a car. But seven two, seven

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Speaker 2: oh two, one, seven oh two, Please, if you're at

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Speaker 2: the golf, if you're watching it on TV, what did

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Speaker 2: you enjoy the most? What would you change? Good to

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Speaker 2: hear from you this evening, twelve minutes after six.

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Speaker 4: Seven two, Stephen is on x at at Stephen.

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Speaker 2: Well Market yoyoing through the day after the US President

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump said he was pausing attacks on Iranian energy

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Speaker 2: infrastructure for five days. He said that progress was being

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Speaker 2: made in negotiations with Iran's government. Several Iranian outlets these

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Speaker 2: are government media outlets, deny that there've been negotiations Before

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Speaker 2: Trump's comments. The JAS was down about three percent, it

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Speaker 2: suddenly reversed that ended up slightly up on the day.

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Speaker 2: Isaac Udendhal is of course at Old Neutral. He is

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Speaker 2: the investment strategist. There Isazac. Good evening, thanks for your

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Speaker 2: time the Money Show tonight. This is such a typical

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Speaker 2: fog of war scenario. No one really knows what's going on,

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Speaker 2: and markets don't really know what to do with it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's not just fog of war. It's a sort

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Speaker 5: of FuG of fog of Trump because you know, from

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Speaker 5: the beginning of this conflict, it wasn't quite clear what

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Speaker 5: his war aims were, and so it's pretty difficult for market.

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Speaker 5: But this is to get a sense of how far

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Speaker 5: we are from achieving those goals. You know, if you

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Speaker 5: think back to the tax on your run in June

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Speaker 5: of last year, the so called twelve day war, I mean,

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Speaker 5: at that stage, it was very clear that it was

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Speaker 5: about attacking it runs nuclear infrastructure and destroying that, and

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Speaker 5: so the market very quickly got a sense of you know,

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Speaker 5: this is this is where it will end. And you know,

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Speaker 5: the oil price was higher, but that didn't last for

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Speaker 5: very long. This time around, we're not sure and Trump

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Speaker 5: has not been consistent in his messaging. Neither has Nttanio,

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Speaker 5: the Israeli Prime minister. So it's very difficult to know

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Speaker 5: if we are any closer to the end of this

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Speaker 5: conflict now than we were yesterday or a week prior.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if there is a I don't know, an

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Speaker 2: outbreak of peace is a say, before the end of

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Speaker 2: the week, say they reached some sort of deal, I mean,

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Speaker 2: do markets go back to what they were before. Oil

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Speaker 2: would probably only get back to normal in terms of

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Speaker 2: the flow of it probably take at least a month,

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Speaker 2: probably even longer, you know, So there has been.

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Speaker 5: Significant damage to oil infrastructure, especially gas infrastructure in the region.

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Speaker 5: Countries like Kuwait have started shutting their wells because obviously

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Speaker 5: they can't do anything with the world they're producing, and

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Speaker 5: that process apparently takes quite a while to restart. So, yes,

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Speaker 5: even if all hostility sees tomorrow, which is very very unlikely,

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Speaker 5: it'll take some time for things to return to normal. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think the best we can hope for

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Speaker 5: is not some sort of peace deal, but just rather

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Speaker 5: that I suppose there's some sort of informal agreement that

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Speaker 5: I'll stop shooting at one another, but it's very difficult

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Speaker 5: to know. As you mentioned, the Iranians don't seem to

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Speaker 5: concede that they are any talks at all. So perhaps

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Speaker 5: this is just Trump kind of unilaterally, you know, declaring

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Speaker 5: that there are negotiations.

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Speaker 6: Who knows.

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Speaker 5: And I think that also speaks of the volatility we

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Speaker 5: saw today, where there was a very strong market ready

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Speaker 5: there's a big drop in the price of oil, and

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Speaker 5: then you know, sort of it inched up again towards

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Speaker 5: the end of the day. So things are very volatile

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Speaker 5: and uncertain still.

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Speaker 2: So oil is one thing, it's sort of relatively easy

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Speaker 2: to understand, but gold and the dollar have been quite strange.

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Speaker 2: I mean, gold really has been dropping in value since

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Speaker 2: the start of it and then seem to gain strongly.

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Speaker 2: And the rand did nicely against the dollar towards the

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Speaker 2: end of the day on the sort of back of

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Speaker 2: the Trump tweet.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's it's partly because if you look

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Speaker 5: at just the rand, for instance, and I think the

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Speaker 5: rand is very much in response to the gold price,

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Speaker 5: but also in response to expectations around US interest rates,

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Speaker 5: and that's the big thing that changed over the last

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Speaker 5: couple of days is suddenly, you know, markets are also

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Speaker 5: starting to worry about inflation implications of this oil price

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Speaker 5: spike and whether that could potentially to at worst interest

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Speaker 5: rate increases, but more likely just no more interest rate

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Speaker 5: cuts in the major economies. And so we've seen a

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Speaker 5: big repricing of interst rate expectations market based interest rates

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Speaker 5: have gone up. That has that has really I think

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Speaker 5: sucked the life out of the gold market. And then

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Speaker 5: in turn, you know, the week of gold prices has

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Speaker 5: really weighed on the rand. I mean, this morning it

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Speaker 5: was down at about seventeen twenty at one point. Now

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Speaker 5: it's back below seventeen. And then of course that creates

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Speaker 5: problems for South Africa because the week of the rand

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Speaker 5: is the more likely. You know, we're going to start

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Speaker 5: talking about the potential for interstrate cut hikes in South Africa.

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Speaker 5: I really don't think we are heading there, but you know,

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Speaker 5: obviously people will start speculating, and so that then also

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Speaker 5: creates further nervousness.

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Speaker 2: Nervousness everywhere, and you can blame anyone. He's a good

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Speaker 2: and dup. Thanks so much, really appreciated the investment strategist

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Speaker 2: of Old Mutual Wealth as Arjamin Doctor Zarjimin is the

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Speaker 2: chief economist at Econometrics. Azar, good evening, Thanks for your time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that there will be a

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Speaker 2: longer term consequence of all of this to the way

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Speaker 2: that markets price oil. We've had a sort of certainty

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Speaker 2: for quite a while that oil will go through the

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Speaker 2: strait of UMUS. Now we know that that can change

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Speaker 2: kind of in a heartbeat or in a tweet, and

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Speaker 2: I just wonder if kind of long term fundamental faith

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Speaker 2: in that system has been shaken and that will affect

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Speaker 2: Marcus for some time.

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Speaker 7: I think you're absolutely correct. I think a lot of

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Speaker 7: people and countries are going to take preventive action, whether

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Speaker 7: it be it building up oil reserves to higher levels

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Speaker 7: than previously would have been the case, that in itself

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Speaker 7: will sustain some upward pressure on oil crisis. Remember, before

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Speaker 7: this war, there was a feeling amongst many that there

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Speaker 7: was a glut of oil around the world and that

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Speaker 7: prices could fall to as far as fifty dollars a barrel.

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Speaker 7: That image you might return in the medium to longer term,

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Speaker 7: but certainly not in the shorter term. And as isak

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Speaker 7: Werdendahl suggested, there has been much disruption to productive facilities

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Speaker 7: amongst oil producers and that will be with us for

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Speaker 7: some time. So we're not going to rush back to

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Speaker 7: sixty dollars a barrel anytime soon.

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Speaker 2: The last couple of years which have really been Trump,

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Speaker 2: have really been about volatility in the market, Solls, Liberation

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Speaker 2: Day in Tariff's, the war on Iran, and in so

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Speaker 2: many of these cases, Trump chickens out. And I mean,

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Speaker 2: one way to see what happened today is to suggest

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Speaker 2: he backed himself into a corner, so he just stopped

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Speaker 2: doing it, and that's only until he does. I'm looking

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Speaker 2: for the right word here, as are the next crazy thing.

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Speaker 2: I think it's probably the right word. How do markets

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Speaker 2: now manage this kind of reality? You've got the presidence

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Speaker 2: of the United States, the armed, unbelievable armed forces at

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Speaker 2: his command, kind of doing whatever he wants to do,

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Speaker 2: and yet in the back of your mind you also think, well,

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Speaker 2: you'll chicken out available eventually.

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Speaker 7: I think you're absolutely correct that a lot of this

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Speaker 7: movement and his statement today was an effort to try

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Speaker 7: and calm market. He seems to be extremely aware of

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Speaker 7: the negative effects on his support base if markets do badly.

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Speaker 7: One is very concerned, however, that sooner or later his

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Speaker 7: own supporters might turn against him. And then it's really

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Speaker 7: going to be an open day to see what happens

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Speaker 7: to markets and to American policy.

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Speaker 2: More generally, volatility like this over a longer term. So

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Speaker 2: let's just say the last kind of two and a

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Speaker 2: half years to the global economy, I mean, investing in

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Speaker 2: new capacity if you're a CEO of a company kind

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Speaker 2: of becomes impossible. I would presume all of this must

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Speaker 2: have a longer term impact on global economic growth.

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Speaker 7: I cannot help but believe that what we've experienced in

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Speaker 7: the last month or so will have some negative effects

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Speaker 7: on global economic growth. The disruption to supply chains not

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Speaker 7: only directly related to oil, but of all sorts of

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Speaker 7: a variety of goods and services, including plastics, including microchips, fertilizers.

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Speaker 7: All that is going to be with us for some time,

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Speaker 7: and it's very difficult for people to build up too

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Speaker 7: much confidence in such an environment. I totally agree with that.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Zarjamin, thank you so much, chief economists at Econometrics.

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Speaker 2: Well as a story changing literally minute by minutes, who

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Speaker 2: knows what's going to happen, Well, I'd say tomorrow, but

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Speaker 2: even this evening, twenty minutes after six.

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Speaker 4: The Money Show with Stephen on seven O two seven

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Speaker 4: O twos.

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Speaker 2: Well, here a warning from glen Core that their Pharaoh

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Speaker 2: Alloys division may have to go ahead with retrenchments because

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Speaker 2: there's still no certainty from government on the new sixty

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Speaker 2: two cents of killer what our tariff for their smelters.

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Speaker 2: There's currently an interim tariff of eighty seven cents. There's

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Speaker 2: a negotiation underway. Glen Core says it needs sixty two

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Speaker 2: cents Without that it's uneconomic to turn their smelters back on.

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Speaker 2: If they don't turn them back on, they have to

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Speaker 2: retrench their workers. Yuppie Fullard is the CEO at Glencore Alloys. Yuppy,

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Speaker 2: good evening. You're very generous with your time and I

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Speaker 2: know you've got plenty to do, so thank you. Where

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Speaker 2: are you with negotiations? I think when we last spoke

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Speaker 2: we had an interim tariff, there was movement. Where are

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Speaker 2: we now, Stephen?

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Speaker 8: I mean, first of all the ninety seven cents, particular

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Speaker 8: what our interim solution that was given, and because of

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Speaker 8: that that that then initiated ourselves as the company that

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Speaker 8: that we have restarted line smelter. So that's that big

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Speaker 8: complish that we've got and still with. So for the

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Speaker 8: eighty seven I didn't give that for us for one

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Speaker 8: year at all. But then also the minister made it

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Speaker 8: public the other day as you as you know that

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Speaker 8: he said that the sixty two cents is already approved.

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Speaker 8: So in principle the sixty two cents is approved. Now

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Speaker 8: I can start up, or definitely can or we'll be

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Speaker 8: able to start up with sixty two, but the problem

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Speaker 8: still comes in the terms and conditions. So the terms

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Speaker 8: and conditions must be promotionally viable, and what I proposed

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Speaker 8: to us unfortunately cannot work. And for that reason, we

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Speaker 8: are in negotiations there with ISCRAM and I can tell

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Speaker 8: you we ad really cordial discussions. But yeah, unfortunately our

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Speaker 8: time is running out.

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Speaker 2: Are you able to tell us what the sticking point is?

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Speaker 2: I know you're in the middle of a negotiation. You

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Speaker 2: may not want to negotiate through the media. Are you

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Speaker 2: allowed to say anything about it?

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Speaker 8: We look, I mean, there's what I can tell you

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Speaker 8: is that there's quite a lot of, let's say, of

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Speaker 8: these triggers that we agree. So I mean the term

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Speaker 8: both parties agreed. It's a five year term, which we

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Speaker 8: would also appreciate because you know, you don't want to

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Speaker 8: go and spend millions or actually billions. It's going to

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Speaker 8: cost me one billion rand to get and also Vonnacop

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Speaker 8: smelter ready to be started, so I mean that's one

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Speaker 8: billion rand that we that we need to take out

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Speaker 8: for us to be able to start at sixty two.

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Speaker 8: So we also need a longer term, let's say, assurance

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Speaker 8: that we will be able to at least break even.

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Speaker 8: So I think that's the first thing that both parties

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Speaker 8: agreed upon. There's also an upside sharing mechanism. So if

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Speaker 8: we make money, let's say again call at the smelters,

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Speaker 8: we are are not dwelling to the share that there

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Speaker 8: is come so so there's been a lot of good discussions,

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Speaker 8: but but there are certain ones. That's that's or you know,

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Speaker 8: from a commercial perspective blenk or you know, the liability

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Speaker 8: is just a big so in terms of and you

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Speaker 8: know this has specifically got to do with early termination.

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Speaker 8: I mean, you've just spoke about the war. I can't

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Speaker 8: tell you that that in two years time or three

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Speaker 8: years time nothing will happen. But you know, then we

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Speaker 8: are locked in for let's say five years without any

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Speaker 8: escape force.

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Speaker 6: That's where the problem is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I can I can understand the concern on

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Speaker 2: on on all sides. I suppose in that case, in

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Speaker 2: the meantime, you have to consider your workers. If your

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Speaker 2: smelters are closed, they're not working, they're not being productive,

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Speaker 2: they're obviously you have to look after the company. Where

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Speaker 2: are you with that? I mean I presume you kind

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Speaker 2: of have to tell them what's going to happen, and

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Speaker 2: you don't actually know, and you've only got what until

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Speaker 2: the end of this month.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, that's the problem. You would see that I put

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Speaker 8: out a memo, a memo to my people last week

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Speaker 8: Friday where I get informed them. I mean, you can

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Speaker 8: just imagine that, for let's say, the last eight months,

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Speaker 8: we have paid how people will pay without making one

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Speaker 8: kind of a pherogram. So for us as a company,

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Speaker 8: it's a massive liability and we can't continue, you.

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Speaker 6: Know, doing so.

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Speaker 8: So I don't inform my people that, look, we are

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Speaker 8: in negotiations. It comes back to us and say, you

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Speaker 8: guess what the terms and condition can work, and this

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Speaker 8: is what I propose that will be give me the

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Speaker 8: enough power to say, all right, I can I can

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Speaker 8: continue for for you know, another month, but but without

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Speaker 8: any should it be from you know ISCAM, and remember

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Speaker 8: from ISCAM we must then't go to Nursaea. You know,

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Speaker 8: it must still be approved that person. But at least

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Speaker 8: if we know that the terms and conditions have been

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Speaker 8: agreed upon between ourselves and ISCAM, that will give me

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Speaker 8: the leagadage to say, okay, I can you know, get

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Speaker 8: the people on for another month and then we can

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Speaker 8: start with our processes in terms of stock.

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Speaker 2: Gup Yuppy, thank you so much for your time. Yuppy

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Speaker 2: Ford is the CEO at Glencore Alloys. Twenty six minutes

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Speaker 2: after six The Money Show, Christoph Schollenberger's portfolio manager the

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Speaker 2: Old Mutual Investment Group, kristof good evening. Wow, what a

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Speaker 2: day on the JS today. Thanks Donald Trump.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, good evening, Stephen and your listeners. Yeah, she's never

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Speaker 9: a dull moment with Donald Trump on social media.

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Speaker 10: Huh.

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Speaker 2: So the market was down what three percent? They all share.

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Speaker 2: It was amazing how quickly it reversed, and it's and

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Speaker 2: what you see is this kind of yo yo trade.

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Speaker 2: So we see when the war's going on, when Trump

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Speaker 2: is sort of upping the wall rhetoric, we see gold

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Speaker 2: getting weaker, the dollar getting stronger, the ram getting weaker,

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Speaker 2: and oil price is going higher. The moment that there's

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Speaker 2: an element of peace, oil goes goes weaker and everything

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Speaker 2: else reverses.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, there's quite quite something to watch. After the social

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Speaker 9: media post came out, it is just one hundred and

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Speaker 9: eighty degree turnaround and the rand gained i think almost

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Speaker 9: fifty cents within a half an hour. And as you say,

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Speaker 9: everything reversed. The market looked up. It is done more

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Speaker 9: than three and the next thing it is in the

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Speaker 9: green and the future is offshore with turning up and

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Speaker 9: oil is falling. I think at one point it was

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Speaker 9: down twelve percent. It seems to stabilize around one hundred

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Speaker 9: dollars now. But yeah, it's just in a bar turn.

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Speaker 6: It's a fascinating world we're living where you.

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Speaker 9: Know, capital markets can be can can be influenced to

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Speaker 9: such an extent by social media and by you know,

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Speaker 9: world leaders kind of throwing comments on social media. But

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Speaker 9: what they're going to bomb and where they're going to

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Speaker 9: declar peace and what's going on.

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Speaker 2: It's fascinating. It's also exhausting. I think it's interesting to

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Speaker 2: see some consumer shares. I mean, I think Boxer are

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Speaker 2: up six percent. They can pay her up strongly. SPA,

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Speaker 2: which has had a rough time, they were up by

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Speaker 2: two percent. People looking for South Africa shares that they

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Speaker 2: can invest in and get a good price on right

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Speaker 2: now because of everything else.

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Speaker 9: I would I would guess. So, yeah, it's I think

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Speaker 9: a lot of these shares come under pressure as well,

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Speaker 9: you know, with the potential of inflation going up. Given

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Speaker 9: the oil price, there was a little bit of concern

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Speaker 9: around whether the SOB would actually cut, you know, if

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Speaker 9: the lesson doesn't kind of hover around their three percent target.

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Speaker 9: So the shares are pretty weak, so I think this

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Speaker 9: is a bit of a relief rightly. I don't know

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Speaker 9: if they're short covering or whether investors are starting to

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Speaker 9: look through this and kind of making the assumption that

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Speaker 9: maybe six or nine months from today, you know, all

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Speaker 9: this will be behind us, and then the positive tail

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Speaker 9: when Zidessa was experiencing will be back on the table.

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Speaker 9: I mean, it's not impossible, but yes, that that that's

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Speaker 9: probably what's driving it today.

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Speaker 2: And then Tangela reporting today they were down quite significantly

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Speaker 2: as well. They made a big loss at a very

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Speaker 2: big impairment.

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Speaker 9: Yeah they did. You know, Thinkila is also quite a

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Speaker 9: good run given as exposed to energy in the form

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Speaker 9: of coal. So in the last kind of three weeks

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Speaker 9: it's had a good run. So we did did see

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Speaker 9: it come off of but I don't know what the

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Speaker 9: market was expecting, but we thought the results are were reasonable.

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Speaker 9: The impairment is non cash, and we understand that call

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Speaker 9: prices for the year that they've reported with heid that

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Speaker 9: they reported have been weak, but Yeah. To me, if

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Speaker 9: you look at the balance sheet and and and the

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Speaker 9: way you manage it allocates capital, it's it's still a

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Speaker 9: sound company. And if one it is optimistic on the

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Speaker 9: cal prices, you know, they've got a history of giving

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Speaker 9: a lot of cash back to shelders and producing very

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Speaker 9: good returns given that they are, you know, kind of

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Speaker 9: a mono line.

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Speaker 5: The more coal exporter.

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Speaker 2: Good So Shalimbig, thanks so much, portfolio manager. The old

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Speaker 2: mutual investment group just gone sex and thirty.

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Speaker 11: Stephen on seven seven two one.

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Speaker 2: We heard all of those conversations around the market volatility,

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Speaker 2: what we've seen on the JC, seen the same thing

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Speaker 2: in the US of course, and on currency markets and

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Speaker 2: gold and of course on oil. Responses to that tonight, Hi.

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Speaker 12: Steven, I was just wondering about this market volatility issue.

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Speaker 12: I wonder whether Donald Trump and his acolytes are in

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Speaker 12: fact using these situations to move markets as a mechanism

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Speaker 12: of making money. Because every time the market does this

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Speaker 12: massive fluctuation based on a comment from Donald Trump, somebody

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Speaker 12: is making money because somebody's selling shares, and then somebody's

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Speaker 12: buying shares at a cheaper price, which then recover after

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Speaker 12: he backtracks, and I just wonder whether there's market manipulation

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Speaker 12: happening on top of the political machinations.

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Speaker 2: What do you think? Thanks, So, the problem the problem

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Speaker 2: with this is that in the past you would have

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Speaker 2: been able to rule that out. You would have thought,

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Speaker 2: surely not. But you're talking about someone who has their

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Speaker 2: own cryptocurrency, someone who is sort of forcing their way

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Speaker 2: into things. In some cases seems to be benefiting from

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Speaker 2: their own policy. So it's very hard to say, well,

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Speaker 2: actually that's not the case. You can't really prove a

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Speaker 2: negative anyway. That said, I don't have any evidence that

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Speaker 2: that is the case, and so until then you can't

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Speaker 2: say that it is. But just that suspicion alone is

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Speaker 2: going to scare the markets a little bit that you

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Speaker 2: have someone in the White House doing that kind of thing,

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Speaker 2: or that it is possible. By the way, there's actually

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Speaker 2: quite a long history of this, not from US presidents,

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Speaker 2: but from the Senate and Congress, where people are in

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Speaker 2: closed door committees or they're in committee hearings, and the

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Speaker 2: decisions a committee makes will effect a share price, and

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Speaker 2: this is and so people would be investing, you know,

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Speaker 2: if only their brokers by this before they announced the

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Speaker 2: decision astonishing. I don't think you'd be allowed to do

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Speaker 2: that yet, but really quite crazy. So yeah, very very interesting,

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Speaker 2: but I can't say that it's not happening. Let me

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Speaker 2: put it like that. Twenty one minutes after seven. Twenty

434
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 2: one minutes to seven. By the way, still keen to

435
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 2: hear from you your views of a live golf tournament,

436
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: if you enjoyed it, what you would change, What was

437
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: the best part of it for you? Twenty one minutes

438
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: nine to seven.

439
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 3: The Laly Show with Stephen Krudis Lion on ninety two

440
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 3: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

441
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: Media Plus.

442
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 4: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

443
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: Well seventeen minutes to seven the time the education group Advertec,

444
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: showing again just how big the education market is. Their

445
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: school's division grew their enrollment by five percent through last year.

446
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: The number of full qualifications issued by their tertiary group

447
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: was up by nineteen percent. Also confirmation today that they'll

448
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: seek university status for Rosebank College in Cape Town and

449
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 2: the Amorous campuses as soon as government allows that. Our

450
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: big change is coming in that respect. Jeff White is

451
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: the CEO ADVERTECT Jeff good evening your enrollment numbers at

452
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: schools that have been growing consistently. I would imagine you see

453
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 2: this growth continuing over the next few years.

454
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 8: Now.

455
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 13: I think that the South Africa market is under a

456
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 13: bit of pressure. I think our parents are definitely feeling

457
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 13: the strain financially. But we're fortunate that quality education is

458
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 13: a high priority purchase and we're benefiting from that with

459
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 13: a range of strong brands at different price points.

460
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: You say you had a big focus on collection processes,

461
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 2: are you finding actually it is getting harder and harder

462
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: for parents to pay. You have to chase them a

463
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 2: little bit more for the money.

464
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 13: I think we really endeavor to maintain good relationships with

465
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 13: all of our parents, and we understand that there are

466
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 13: challenges for all of us financially at different times, and

467
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 13: we try and help parents through that. But providing good information,

468
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 13: accurate billing, that's really where we try and deliver and

469
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 13: that's definitely helping our collections numbers.

470
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 2: Your higher education division growing strongly. Two of the new

471
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: Imorus campus and Santon what was it, four hundred and

472
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: twenty million round you obviously have that's right, Yeah, you

473
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 2: have high hopes that I mean, I presume it might

474
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 2: even pay for itself relatively quickly.

475
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, we've had a very good start there.

476
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 13: Enrollments at that campus are up over twenty percent since

477
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 13: we relocated the existing Vega and Emeras campuses from their

478
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 13: previous locations.

479
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: What do you think is the big draw? Then? Is

480
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: location that important?

481
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 13: I think location is important. I think maybe more important

482
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 13: is the quality of facilities. And you know, we've built

483
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 13: a really magnificent facility there and it's not just frustrate

484
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 13: teaching atlantic facilities, but also great sports facilities. So I

485
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 13: think it's a combination of all of those things.

486
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 2: I mean it's interesting. Sport is still one of those

487
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 2: things that people find quite important, particularly for young people.

488
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: Is that a big attraction then?

489
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 13: Yes, And with help from Supersport, we've built a world

490
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 13: class indoor sports center at Emerson Santon, which we've also

491
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 13: mirrored at our new facility Nelson Mandela Bay, and that's

492
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 13: definitely going down very well with our students.

493
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: The Santon campus, I mean very convenient for a lot

494
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: of people. A lot of people first second year out

495
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: of school kind of still need mom or dad to

496
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 2: take them wherever. Mom and dad might well be working

497
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: in sant and two it's next to one of the

498
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 2: busiest highways in the country. I must say most people

499
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 2: when your new campus comes up, the first thing people

500
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 2: in Santen say is how on earth are you going

501
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 2: to manage the traffic? Have you had to work on

502
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: that a bit.

503
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 13: Yeah, we did have a few challenges when we opened.

504
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 13: We actually have a significantly expanded on site parking from

505
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 13: the previous locations, but I guess when you've got a

506
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 13: rush of students into a new area, then you'll have

507
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 13: some teething troubles. We also are only able to control

508
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 13: traffic on site, so when we did have a few

509
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 13: issues in the beginning, we work very closely with the

510
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 13: GMPD to manage where people were parking, make sure the

511
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 13: traffic plow was running. We've also introduced on site parking

512
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 13: priority for students from years too and up and provided

513
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 13: off site parking for first year students, and I think

514
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 13: the situation has used considerably since we opened.

515
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: I mean even the traditional universities often say first year

516
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 2: students can't park on campus yet. I mean some traditions India.

517
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 2: When you look at your offering and the qualifications you're

518
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: offering at Emeris and in Rosebank College. Where do you

519
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: see the most growth at the moment, I mean, is

520
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: it commerce? Is it the arts? Maybe sciences? He says optimistically.

521
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 6: Commerce is very big. Education is very big.

522
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 13: But we're also through EMERS the world not the world,

523
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 13: so that would be a nice ambition to have. We're

524
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 13: certainly South Africa's the biggest law faculty through EMERS, and

525
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 13: we have multiple campuses. Actually upfront you mentioned Rosebank in

526
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 13: Cape Town. We actually have ten Rosebank campuses across the

527
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 13: country and in Ghana. So I guess a law big

528
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 13: commerce education. But we've also started introducing more news qualifications

529
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 13: like engineering, which has been very successful at Amorus.

530
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: You want university status obviously for Rosebank and for Emirates,

531
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: and government is investigating giving private institutions university status. Frankly,

532
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: this in my view should have happened. I don't know

533
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: twenty thirty years ago. Does it change much in your sector.

534
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: So you have a particular quality of qualification that you're

535
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: giving now being able to call it a degree, use

536
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 2: the name university. I imagine there'll be a nice document

537
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: too in the ceremony, Jeff. Apart from the name and

538
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: the legal status and what you call it, Is it

539
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: actually going to make a big change to what you

540
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 2: offer students? Is what I'm really asking. Is it going

541
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: to change your group?

542
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 13: Well, I mean, I think the quality of what we

543
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 13: offer today is very high, and all of our degrees

544
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 13: are accredited by the same body to the same standard

545
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 13: as the public university. So we are operating as universities

546
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 13: in everything but name, which I guess is the frustration.

547
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 13: And I mean I guess in terms of that path,

548
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 13: we have made some progress. So the policy to recognize

549
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 13: private universities was finally gazetted by government in October last year,

550
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 13: albeit after some legal pressure from ourselves. The final regulations

551
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 13: of the process to apply haven't been issued yet, however,

552
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 13: that we expect them to publish this year. And we've restructured,

553
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 13: as I mentioned up front, our territory businesses from six.

554
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 6: Brands to two.

555
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 13: We've expanded our research output, We've upskilled our academic staff

556
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 13: to significant increases in the numbers of our staff with master's.

557
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 6: Degrees and doctorates.

558
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 13: And we're ready and as soon as those regulations and

559
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 13: the process are published, will apply for Emers and Rosebank.

560
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: I did not realize that you'd had to apply some

561
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: sort of legal pressure. I mean, did you have to

562
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: get as far as filing legal papers or was it

563
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: just one of those lawyers that one of those letters

564
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: that lawyers write so nicely.

565
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 13: Well, there was a court ruling going back several years

566
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 13: I think to twenty twenty two that compelled the Department

567
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 13: of Higher Education to issue the process and the regulations,

568
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 13: and they issued two drafts but never a final sense,

569
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 13: and they never gazetted the policy.

570
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 6: So we did intervene to remind.

571
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 13: Them of their obligations and that has moved things along somewhat.

572
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: Do you think they're against the whole idea of a

573
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 2: private institution offering degrees.

574
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 6: I don't think so.

575
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 13: I think we play a very important role in providing

576
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 13: tertiary education in the country, and if you look at

577
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 13: the public institutions, the number of places that they've offered

578
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 13: has been static for the last few years, whilst we've

579
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 13: seen a big surge in demand with kids coming out

580
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 13: of school with the bachelor past. So I think we're

581
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 13: performing an essential role in providing places that the government

582
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 13: is struggling to do themselves.

583
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: Jeff White, thanks so much, really appreciated the CEO of advertech.

584
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: I'd watch that sect it closely. I mean, I think

585
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: demand for higher education, if you see what happens in

586
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: the public institutions every year, is almost what's inexhaustible, you know.

587
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 2: I mean it's not quite obviously, but there is overwhelming demand,

588
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: let me use that phrase, for higher education and the

589
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: people who crack that economic model. You can offer it cheaply.

590
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: You can make sure that there's a return on the

591
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: investment that parents and young people are making, and crucially

592
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: help people get that first job after school. Sure, I

593
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: think who ever does that is going to make a fortune.

594
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: Nine minutes now to seven.

595
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 14: The Money Show Stephen Fluettez is brought to you by

596
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 14: absa Islamic banking celebrating twenty years of banking rooted in values.

597
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: Following many people breathing some sort of sigh of relief

598
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: as trading ended for the day after all of the

599
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: turmoil we've seen on world markets. One of the problems

600
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: I suppose is how do people keep up and when

601
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: you have volatility like this, when you have oil prices

602
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: going up and down in this way and all of

603
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: the associated consequences, how do you allocate capital? How do

604
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: you make the right rational decision that's going to work

605
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: over the longer term. And I think one of the

606
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: points that you know, as Arja Min was making the

607
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: point a little earlier that this is absolutely categorically going

608
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: to have an impact on global out But just look

609
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 2: at our economy, Okay. So people make choices, they make

610
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: investment decisions, they look at the future, they plan the year.

611
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: Suddenly oil prices. You know, we thought we were going

612
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: to have a very nice, sort of relatively easier economically speaking,

613
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 2: oil prices go through the roof because of something we

614
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: have no control over. And then who knows or bets

615
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: are off. So what do companies do. They kind of

616
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: stay where they are, They don't expand they don't do anything.

617
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: You heard immediately the situation for RP. Full Ard, for example,

618
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 2: at Glencore Pharaoh Alloys. He says, you know, they've got

619
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: to sign a five year agreement with government that makes

620
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: sense on both sides. They can't do it if this

621
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 2: kind of thing is happening because they don't know what's

622
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: going to happen. Voice notes coming through this evening on

623
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: seven two seven two one seven two Hi.

624
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 15: Stephen Great showing great interviews as always I've just got

625
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 15: a question for you. So, if twenty percent of the

626
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 15: world's oil goes through the Strait of Hormuz, why are

627
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 15: we seeing more than a fifty percent, going closer to

628
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 15: seventy percent increase in the oil and gas price?

629
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 11: Thank you have a good evening.

630
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually a fascinating question. It's because people don't

631
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,959
Speaker 2: know what's going to happen. And while it is only

632
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 2: twenty percent that goes there, when when you have scarcity,

633
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 2: when there isn't enough of something or there is less

634
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 2: of something than there was before, the price almost always

635
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 2: shoots up because you and I don't know if we're

636
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: going to get it, so you're going to outbid me,

637
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 2: and I'm going to outbid you, and that's what happens.

638
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: And I would I would sort of explain it in

639
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: that way that when you have scarcity like this, and

640
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: particularly because you don't know how it's going to actually

641
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 2: play out, you don't know where things are going to

642
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: go next. When that happens, the only thing you can

643
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 2: do really is try and buy your way out of it.

644
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 2: You're trying very hard to you're trying very hard to

645
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: sort of get your hands on it and so that

646
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: pushes the price up five minutes.

647
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 4: To seven The Money Show with Stephen Cruit on seven

648
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 4: O two.

649
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 2: Oh there. I am the coal producer to Gala Resource

650
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: is hit hard by the strength of the rand. Actually

651
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 2: during its financial year to the end of December, reporting

652
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: a loss of seven point one billion round. So coal

653
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 2: prices were lowered during that period. There's non cash impairment

654
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: losses against its assets of eight point eight billion round.

655
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: Moses Madund is the CEO tung Gala Resources. Moses, good

656
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: evening and thanks for your time. So a period of

657
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: lower international coal prices for you during this period the

658
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 2: last few weeks energy price is yo yoing and I

659
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 2: imagine for you to make predictions about this year is

660
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: suddenly very difficult.

661
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 10: Good and thank you for having us. Yes, it's quite

662
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 10: a tough period last year in terms of the price environment.

663
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 10: But as you know commented disciples and certainly the coal

664
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 10: is one of those. And yes we've had a low

665
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,959
Speaker 10: because of the challenging market, largely on the demand side

666
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 10: from China and India. Really because the historically because of

667
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 10: the energy security consent increase the domestic production and that's

668
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 10: so depressed market. But we saw that task into ten

669
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 10: towards the end of the year, really because some supplies

670
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 10: came in in Colombia, but also we saw the decisions

671
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 10: by the Indianeria government to pull back some production, but

672
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 10: also saw the India sponge market also start to pick up. Yeah,

673
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 10: current conditions really do not control those, so we focus

674
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 10: on those things that we control in the business.

675
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: Well, talking of things you can control in the business,

676
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: you actually produced more coal than your original guidance. Where

677
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 2: did that extra production come from? Do you think you'd

678
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 2: be able to maintain that going forward?

679
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 10: We've been very pleased. Really the group works hard and

680
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 10: in our improvement efforts and we've seen some of that

681
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 10: come through in South Africa building guidance bettin point nine

682
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 10: million times, and we also saw a return in Ancient

683
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 10: We recall in the H one that we had geological

684
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 10: challenges that we faced up and some good work done

685
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 10: by the team to really turn that situation around and

686
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 10: set us up into a resilient and more response capability

687
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 10: in terms of the theology condition. So it saw us

688
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 10: a system good returns in age two, So we expect

689
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 10: that bad performance in a NASA should sustain and of

690
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 10: course we did see a better focus for this year

691
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 10: in respect of what we had expected production hiatus what

692
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 10: literally seeks boiled by both those improvements in South Africa

693
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 10: as well as of course Translit having shown some improvement

694
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 10: year on year of about nine percent in terms of

695
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 10: the railing capacity.

696
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: You, you and people in your space have all been

697
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 2: saying Transit has improved. How much of an issue is

698
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 2: it for you at the moment? Are you able to

699
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: move everything you produce or does it limit what you

700
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 2: can actually move and therefore sell.

701
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 10: The improvements we saw last year. Really we're enabling for

702
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 10: the Soufkan business and to the point you made Alia,

703
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 10: therefore we're able to deliver bad guidance as a result.

704
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 10: So yes, we're able to rail what we.

705
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 6: Needed to rail.

706
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 10: And again, looking ahead, the expectation is that we'll see

707
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,479
Speaker 10: some continuite improvement or do we see in the first

708
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 10: three months of the this year and upward trajectory and

709
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 10: the expectations from resence base that they should be able

710
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 10: to do their planning for sixty million times and in

711
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 10: that environment we are still able to supply into that

712
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 10: number from our location.

713
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: You've been investing in extending the life of some shafts.

714
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: I think four point two billion round on two of them. Mostes.

715
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: I completely accept that you control what you can control

716
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: and rest you know, we have to see. But twenty

717
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: years from now your longer term outlook from coal, what

718
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: are you expecting?

719
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 10: So still be correct. Look at the fundamentals of coal

720
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 10: continue to you know, the call for decline and coal

721
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 10: has been long coming. And what we're seen looking ahead

722
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 10: is a plantterum environment, so which suggest that there is

723
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 10: a recognition, a pragmatic recognition that the need for coal

724
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 10: because of it's affordable, and it's available, and it's reliable,

725
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 10: and certainly for base load needs. As the world has

726
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 10: been increasing the demand for data centers. We saw the

727
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 10: US changes position, and you know, we're see growth in

728
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 10: Southeast Asia and certainly in India where I came from

729
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 10: about three four weeks back. Their plans for growth will

730
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 10: demand the industrial capacity of proportions and certainly the still

731
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 10: and spons and production in India is increasing, which to

732
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 10: all that tail end of the year last day improvement.

733
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 10: So a lot of our call coming out of Richards

734
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 10: in particular, is really required for the spongo and might

735
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 10: get in India, and India is projecting a quote. You

736
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 10: know that they've been going into that six percent plus,

737
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 10: so I think that is driving some.

738
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: Of that demand. Merses Madonda, thank you the CEO Tunguella Resources.

739
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 2: A few seconds after seven o'clock.

740
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: And now the Money Show with Stephen Criders on seven.

741
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 4: O two, let's walk this all.

742
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

743
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: by ABS Islamic Business Bank celebrating twenty years of banking

744
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: rooted in values. Eight minutes after seven the time we'll

745
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: talk about loyalty and shopping. A big new report out

746
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: that tells you which is the biggest loyalty card now

747
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 2: in South Africa. If you look at you, what is

748
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: probably one that you have? So it's the second one

749
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: and imagined the one after that. I'd be fascinated to

750
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: know how much of a role they play in your

751
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 2: shopping life. Now, loyalty programs they become a big thing.

752
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: We know that stores use them, chains use them hugely.

753
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: I've often made the point that you probably get some

754
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 2: of the best shoppers in the world in South Africa

755
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: because of the need and the variety of shops on offer.

756
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: So if you know what you're doing and you're prepared

757
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 2: to shop around, and you've got all of the major outlets,

758
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: say on the same street near you're in the same center,

759
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 2: you're probably able to do it very, very cleverly. And

760
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: there'll be some people who'll have this down to a science.

761
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: I'm not one. I'm afraid of those people who sort

762
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 2: of has a card for everything. I know people who

763
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: don't really work hard to make it work for them.

764
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: And sometimes I've been a little bit so what and

765
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 2: then they tell you what they get and you're like, Okay,

766
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,479
Speaker 2: so there's a party I missed, but like toler Kella

767
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 2: and love golf. But anyway, we'll take your cause on that.

768
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 2: Your thoughts also on the US President Donald Trump. We

769
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: will also hear from Yakim Ritz, the founder of How

770
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 2: We Made It in Africa Too, second edition of their book.

771
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: They speak to entrepreneurs and then really looking forward to

772
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: REGI Yeah, the CEO of the Fuel Retailers Association. Everything

773
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 2: you need to know about our career in the fuel industry.

774
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: Nine minutes now after seven.

775
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 3: The Lney Show with Stephen Krutins Live on ninety two

776
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 3: point seven and one six f.

777
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 11: M streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

778
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 4: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

779
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: Just a thought on the comment from Parks How, the

780
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 2: DTRC Minister this afternoon that the US is now formerly

781
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: told South Africa that as part of a probe into

782
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: about sixty countries on the use of unfair trade practices

783
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: and the use of forced labor. And I mean, the

784
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 2: only kind of forced labor you find in South Africa

785
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: is the illegal kind. I don't think you could and

786
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 2: I mean you must see it in the States too.

787
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: And then when it comes to unfair trading, I mean,

788
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: what would that be. What would we be trading unfairly

789
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: into the US. I mean, I can't think of anything

790
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 2: that we would sell that we could dump, that we

791
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: would sell it below the cost of production. None of

792
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: it makes sense. Trump is doing this to sixty countries.

793
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: And what do you get, of course, is a sense

794
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 2: that he just wants a fight with everybody all the

795
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 2: time on every field. That's what this is rarely about.

796
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: And so and I think over time you're seeing more

797
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: and more countries just getting a little smarter with the response.

798
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: So you see European countries basically saying we're not rarely

799
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: going to help you in the Strait of Wumus is

800
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 2: kind of your war. You started it and he did

801
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 2: start it. You know, we see South Africa being quite clever.

802
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of discussion why don't we

803
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: have an ambassador in the US? I think frankly, President

804
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: Rumopauseter got a point. Anyone who's South African to the US,

805
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: and the Americans would find a reason to kick them

806
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 2: out because they're looking for a fight. So rom Porsa,

807
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: I think, is doing this strategic thing. He's not giving

808
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: them one and that's the way you do it. It does

809
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: lead to other problems, But we have a very experienced

810
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 2: chart affair now in charge of that embassy, a sort

811
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 2: of civil servant type, if you know what I mean,

812
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: not a political choice exactly who you want. A proper diplomat,

813
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: a professional diplomat. They can play all the roles. But

814
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: if as soon as your points are onto that position,

815
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 2: they're just going to get kicked out. And that's really

816
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 2: the issue that we're in at the moment. I'd be

817
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: very intrigued to hear your thoughts on that on seven

818
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 2: seven two one seven.

819
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: Two on The Money Show six to eight pm.

820
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 2: So I'm sure that if you look in your purse

821
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 2: or your wallet. You'll see you have more than one

822
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 2: store loyalty card, even I have more than one, and

823
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: that you probably use it quite often when you go shopping,

824
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 2: and they're becoming more and more important. Well, new data

825
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: from the constituency Truth showing that the Checkers Extra Savings

826
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: card is now the most used in the country. The

827
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: CEO of Truth is Amanda Chromote. Amanda, good evening, Good

828
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: to chat again. I mean, how has the usage of

829
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: the Checkers Extra Saving Card changed in the last year.

830
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 2: Has there been a big increase?

831
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 16: Hi, Stephen Nicer, chat to you again. Yes, So we

832
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 16: are seeing Checkers Extra Savings take the top spot again.

833
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 16: It did have it a couple of years ago and

834
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 16: then Clicks regain that spot, but we are seeing slide

835
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 16: more South Africans claim that they're using Checkers Extra Savings

836
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 16: this year, but marginally ahead of Clicks Club Card that

837
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 16: were first place last year. So yeah, check Us Extra

838
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 16: Savings rains as the most used loyalty program in South Africa,

839
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 16: followed by Clicks Club Card and then followed by a

840
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 16: Pick and Pay.

841
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 2: Is it just a function of a change of strategy

842
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 2: to Checkers do something to Clicks do something or do

843
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: you think it's just because shop Right is such a

844
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 2: monster with such momentum at the moment, I mean monster

845
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 2: in a very good and profitable way. But are they

846
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: just because they're so big that's what's driven the card

847
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 2: to this level.

848
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 16: So the difference between Checkers and Clicks is marginal. It's

849
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 16: less than one percent this year, So I don't think

850
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 16: it's a major shift. It's just a shift of position,

851
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 16: whereas we saw Clicks club Card first last year.

852
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 17: So I think the.

853
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 16: Extra savings program across the Checkers and the shop Banner

854
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 16: are both incredibly impressive loyalty programs that are responding to

855
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,959
Speaker 16: consumer needs, which is to save on costs of rise

856
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 16: in cost of food. You know, the cost of living

857
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 16: has gone up so dramatically, so it really hits home where.

858
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 17: Consumers are saying they need it.

859
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 16: I mean, in this Truth and Brand Matt White paper,

860
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 16: we discussed that forty two percent of South Africans are

861
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 16: claiming that rising food costs keep them awake at night,

862
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 16: and that's the third biggest thing that keeps them awake

863
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 16: at night, and loyalty programs are the third most claimed

864
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 16: way of South Africans saying I can save money here.

865
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 16: The first is reducing clothing shopping, the second is reducing

866
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 16: going out at restaurants and entertainment, and the third is

867
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 16: loyalty programs.

868
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 17: So loyalty programs are no longer.

869
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 16: About nice to have and a few perks and a

870
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,879
Speaker 16: few points. It's actually a strategic tool that consumers are

871
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 16: relying on to help them get through the month. And

872
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 16: I think you know what Checkers Extra SAMs is done,

873
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 16: and the other brands that I've mentioned are all hitting

874
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 16: home really hard to help consumers make more from their shopping.

875
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 2: So loyalty cards quite easy to manage. For a store

876
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: like shopwrit or clicks. Banks have to do something slightly different.

877
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: I noticed Kapitek is the biggest among mass market consumers.

878
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 2: The F and B Ebucs thing is also quite big.

879
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 2: Those often require a little bit more thought on the

880
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: side of the consumer to get the full benefit.

881
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 16: Yes, so I smiled when you said they're easy to manage,

882
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 16: because I think they're not brands themselves. Might argue otherwise,

883
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 16: but you'll see both both Kapitech and F and B

884
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 16: coming in at eleventh place.

885
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 17: F and B E bucks for.

886
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 16: What we call economically active consumers, which is a household

887
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 16: income of ten thousands or more a month, and then

888
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 16: mass market consumers ten thousands household income or less. Kapitech

889
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 16: is a tenth for most US lorty programs. So the

890
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 16: retail banks have have been in this industry for a

891
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 16: long time and are very much helping consumers. And we

892
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 16: actually asked Steven another question in the survey, so brand

893
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 16: Map asks the question which card, if you could only

894
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 16: keep one, would you keep And then you start to

895
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 16: see a different set of data.

896
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 17: So whilst the most used.

897
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 16: Loyalty programs is dominated by retail, which card could if

898
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,720
Speaker 16: you can only keep one is very dominated by retail,

899
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,800
Speaker 16: banking or financial services, and we see for economically active

900
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 16: consumers slightly wealthier consumers, Discovery Vitality for the last three

901
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 16: or four years has been the most I tend to

902
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 16: use the term the most loved program. And then in

903
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 16: the mass market consumer space, Kapitec is very much also

904
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 16: been there for three or four years, the program that

905
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 16: South Africans say I can't live without.

906
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 17: So therefore, when you can only choose one, it kind of.

907
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 16: Makes you really focus on which has given me that

908
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 16: biggest benefit and the other retail banks feature really highly

909
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 16: on both mass market and economically active. So if that

910
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 16: constant swipe of my card for everything I buy, and

911
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 16: if you know how to if you know how to

912
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 16: bank responsibly, and you know how to put all your

913
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 16: apples in one basket rather than spread across various different brands,

914
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 16: which is easier to do in.

915
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 17: Retail than it is in banking.

916
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 16: You know, in retail, I could choose to shop a

917
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 16: repertoire of stores, but in banking, I'm typically going to

918
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 16: have my primary bank as one bank.

919
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 17: You tend to find that consumers.

920
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 16: Focus their energy to get the best return in their

921
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 16: lorty kind of play.

922
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 2: What makes consumers prefer one to the other, or what

923
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 2: if you're a retailer or a bank, would make consumers switch,

924
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 2: And in the end, it must be the perception of value.

925
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 17: Absolutely, So yeah on you.

926
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 16: This is our tenth edition of the Truth and Brand

927
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 16: Map Loyalty white paper. So we have a really nice

928
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 16: longitudinal study over ten years and the one thing that

929
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 16: has never changed is that consumers really want.

930
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 17: The value of cash.

931
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 16: So whether it's pure cash that comes straight back into

932
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 16: your bank account, or whether it's cash in points that

933
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 16: get converted to cash, reduction on miles to cash, So cash,

934
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 16: without question, is the sort of ticket to the game.

935
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 16: And then we see other things like birthday offers coming

936
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 16: through as a favorable benefit, or flight discounts. For a

937
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 16: wealthier customer, travel and flight discounts is very important, whereas

938
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 16: maybe a less wealthy customers looking for competition entries or

939
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 16: the ability to maybe do educational courses that the laughty.

940
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 17: Program can help you with.

941
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 16: So it does vary by male and female, it does

942
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 16: vary by demographic sort of earnings, but both are dominated

943
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 16: by cash. So without question, you've got to add value

944
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 16: otherwise customers just say, and we do ask the question

945
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 16: of customers whose consumers who respond to the survey who

946
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 16: don't use Lorty programs, why don't you use it? And

947
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 16: one of the main things they say, it's a small

948
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 16: percentage because remember here I'm talking about eighty five percent

949
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 16: of consumers. Eighty five percent of South Africans use Loughty programs.

950
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 16: So my arguments to a lot of marketers around the

951
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 16: country is what marketing program are you running that gets

952
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 16: an eighty five percent active involvement rate? So the fifteen

953
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 16: percent who don't use loughty programs. The reason they don't,

954
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 16: they state, is it takes me too long to get

955
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 16: real value out of the program. I don't earn enough

956
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 16: or I don't spend enough. So the key there is

957
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 16: to try and make sure that lower income earners maybe

958
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 16: or folks who aren't able to spend more simply because

959
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 16: they're capped income.

960
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 17: Is help them feel that they've earned something.

961
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 16: It's a real consumer psychological kind of response mechanism that

962
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 16: I'm earning something as soon as I've joined the program.

963
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 16: So there's tricks in the trade to help consumers feel

964
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 16: that they're getting benefit quickly. But at the end of

965
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 16: the day, you know, as you said, when you're introducing

966
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 16: this part of your program, you know you're only going

967
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 16: to join these programs if there's going to be value

968
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 16: for you. And there's so much choice out there, so

969
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 16: these programs are in hot competition with each other.

970
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 2: You say that our loyalty market, the way this is

971
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: all done here is watched quite carefully about people in

972
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 2: other markets. Are they things happening here that they're learning from?

973
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 16: Steve and I stand very proud when I have the

974
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 16: opportunity to see international markets, and I'm a judge on

975
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 16: the International Lawalty Award. So I see what goes on

976
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 16: and we as a market are very advanced in the

977
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 16: sense of deep involvement from South Africans. And I think

978
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 16: a lot of that is the fact that a lot

979
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 16: of the programs are answering that killer need to help

980
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 16: me get through the month end. So there's less maybe

981
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 16: bells and whistles and sort of nice to have benefits

982
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 16: and more hard hitting we're going to put money back

983
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 16: in your wallets. And then in a retail banking point

984
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 16: of view, the South African retail banking rewards market is

985
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 16: way advanced with any other market I've seen or judged

986
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 16: or got involved in around the world. So there's a

987
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 16: lot we can be very proud of as a South

988
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 16: African market when I see what happens versus the rest

989
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 16: of the world. And just the fact that eighty five

990
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 16: percent of South Africans are actively using more than ten

991
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,760
Speaker 16: programs each. That's not I've got ten cards in my wallet.

992
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 16: I'm actively using ten different programs, which is phenomenal. There's

993
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 16: very few markets I know that are anywhere near that.

994
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 2: Amanda, thanks so much. Amanda Cromhote is the CEO of truth.

995
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 4: The Money Show with Stephen on seven O two seven

996
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:31,800
Speaker 4: o twos.

997
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 2: I've always find loyalty programs sort of get to the

998
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 2: heart of actually the decisions you make, so you would

999
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 2: think in a perfect world, economists like to assume consumers

1000
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 2: are rational. In other words, if, for example, you have

1001
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 2: to go to a place to go and buy bread

1002
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 2: and milk, you will go to the place where the

1003
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 2: price of bread and milk together is the lowest possible price.

1004
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 2: What they don't always take into account is how branding works.

1005
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 2: You want this kind of milk, well, that kind of bread,

1006
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 2: and it might nothing to do with the nutritional value

1007
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 2: of either of them, but because you like the label,

1008
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 2: or because you had it as a kid or whatever

1009
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 2: something like that. And that's where things start to get

1010
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 2: very very interesting. So I find the whole field that

1011
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 2: Amanda Cromhot is in absolutely fascinating. Twenty one after seven the.

1012
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,879
Speaker 4: My show Business books, Well, you know.

1013
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 2: How difficult it can be to start a new business,

1014
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 2: to employ people, to get it going. A new book

1015
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: out celebrating the success of people who have done exactly that.

1016
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 2: It's called How We Made It in Africa two. Indeed,

1017
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 2: it's a sequel there was a previous book like this

1018
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 2: published some time ago. Jako Mehritz is the founder of

1019
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 2: How We Made It in Africa. It's a website that

1020
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 2: really looks at the successes that people have had. Yaku,

1021
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 2: Good evening. How do you decide who gets in the

1022
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,920
Speaker 2: book when you have such a big collection of entrepreneurial

1023
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 2: success stories?

1024
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 18: Good evening and thank you for having me. I think

1025
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 18: above all, in terms of selecting the entrepreneurs, it were

1026
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 18: about selecting people with interesting stories that others can learn from.

1027
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 18: But we also try to have a good mix of countries,

1028
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 18: so there's over like ten countries in Africa presented in

1029
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 18: the book. And also we try to have a good

1030
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 18: mix between sectors in which they operate. So the entrepreneurs

1031
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 18: featured in the book come from a variety of sectors,

1032
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 18: from retail to agriculture, to technology to health care.

1033
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 2: Are there any particular trends or themes that come from

1034
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 2: the stories, I mean anything that you can see this

1035
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 2: is how people are doing it, or this is what

1036
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:45,720
Speaker 2: it takes.

1037
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 18: I would say one of the traits exhibited by many

1038
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 18: of the entrepreneurs featured in the book is the apability

1039
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 18: to adapt their original business model. For instance, one of

1040
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 18: the South African entrepreneurs in the book is JdE Rajez Mohayane,

1041
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 18: who started a township logistics business. But when they first

1042
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 18: started it was a food delivery app, so kind of

1043
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 18: an uber eat style food delivery business. But that initial

1044
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 18: model didn't quite work for them, and rather than going

1045
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 18: on for too long with a model that doesn't work,

1046
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 18: they changed direction and instead of doing food delivery, they

1047
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 18: became like a general logistics business for companies needing to

1048
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 18: make deliveries to townships. So and you see that with

1049
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 18: many other stories featured in the book. It's just sort

1050
00:56:55,400 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 18: of that ability to adjust a business model from what

1051
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 18: you originally thought it was going to be.

1052
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: Is it difficult for you to find these stories? I

1053
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 2: mean sometimes success happens a little quietly, not always. Do

1054
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 2: you find it tricky to go and find people find

1055
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 2: the stories?

1056
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 18: Yes, I mean that's definitely one of the biggest challenges

1057
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 18: of this book is one to find the stories, then

1058
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 18: getting these people to talk to you, because these are

1059
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 18: not public companies, so they are not kind of legally

1060
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 18: required to talk to you. And you also want to

1061
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 18: write it in a way that it's not so our

1062
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 18: idea with the book is not to celebrate these people.

1063
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 18: It's just to tell their stories in an objective, neutral

1064
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 18: manner and that others can learn from. And it's definitely

1065
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 18: some sometimes difficult to get them to open up about

1066
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 18: some of the mistakes they've made or the child lenges.

1067
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 18: So yeah, there's sort of various layers in terms of

1068
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 18: getting a project like this done.

1069
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 2: When you speak to all of these entrepreneurs and when

1070
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 2: you look at the stories that you're doing, can you

1071
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 2: see particular trends in the problems that they're facing. And

1072
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 2: I'm thinking particularly of something that a government could do

1073
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: to make life easy for entrepreneurs. Do you see the

1074
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 2: same kind of problems that they have to overcome cropping

1075
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 2: up again and again.

1076
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 18: I would say, like I said, one of the issues,

1077
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 18: but I think this is the same for entrepreneurs across

1078
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 18: the world. It's just human resources and managing people. Then

1079
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 18: I would say financing is something and just getting funding

1080
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 18: for their businesses is something that many of the entrepreneurs highlighted.

1081
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 18: So for instance, one of the people featured is Gutlej Mapai,

1082
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 18: who started was one of the founders of yoga owd

1083
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 18: blue card machine company, and when Yago launched, even after

1084
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 18: they had like quite a few thousand customers already, they

1085
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 18: still struggle to secure funding from South African investors and

1086
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 18: they basically had to go to overseas investors who were

1087
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:29,919
Speaker 18: basically more willing to back them than local investors. And

1088
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 18: I would say, despite the rapid growth on the continent,

1089
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 18: So this year, eleven of the fifteen fastest growing economies

1090
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 18: in the world will be in Africa. But despite that,

1091
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 18: I think people need to realize that the bulk of

1092
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 18: the population is still very price sensitive. I think when

1093
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 18: people look at the these economic growth figures, they can

1094
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 18: get a bit carried away in terms of sort of

1095
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 18: the spending power. So I just think people need to

1096
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 18: keep in mind that yes, the continent is growing fast,

1097
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 18: but it's from a low base and you need to

1098
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 18: have products that are correctly priced for the mass market.

1099
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 2: Are they I mean some impossible question. Is there a

1100
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 2: particular story that stands out where you just think, wow,

1101
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 2: how was this person able to do that?

1102
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 18: So personally, my favorite story from the book is of

1103
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 18: an Ethiopian entrepreneur called seat Muhammad Behran. I'll just quickly

1104
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 18: run through stories. So he grew up in rural Ethiopia

1105
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 18: without electricity, sleeping on animal skins. He only went to

1106
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 18: school for four years and his first job was at

1107
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 18: a as a tailor at like a tailoring show, and

1108
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 18: while he was there, he slept on the workshop floor.

1109
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 18: He saved all his money. He didn't spend money on

1110
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 18: any luxuries, and after eleven months he saved up enough

1111
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 18: to buy his own sewing machine and open up his

1112
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 18: own store, and that business eventually became the biggest suit

1113
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 18: manufacturer in Ethiopia, and then later on they expanded into

1114
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 18: hotels and shopping malls. And if you go to the

1115
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 18: shopping mall in Adis Ababa, there is that original sewing

1116
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 18: machine that he built these business empire on. It's sort

1117
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 18: of displayed there at the bottom of the shopping mall.

1118
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 18: So that's definitely one of the most inspiring stories because

1119
01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 18: he literally came from nothing and it's just like his

1120
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 18: own grit and ambition that got in to where he is.

1121
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 2: Jaku, thank you so much. Yaki Maritz is the founder

1122
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 2: of How We Made It in Africa Too.

1123
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 4: So money show How I Make My Money.

1124
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 2: Twenty three minutes now to a one of the big

1125
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 2: issues at the moment, of course's oil price, especially today,

1126
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 2: and the impact that will happen to you. And there's

1127
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 2: a big focus on the entire fuel industry, so we

1128
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 2: thought for a moment, we thought this would be a

1129
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: good moment, excuse me to actually focus on what a

1130
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 2: career in that industry is, like, learn a little bit

1131
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 2: more about it and so on how I make my

1132
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 2: money Tonight. Reggie Sabir is the CEO of the Fuel

1133
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 2: Retailers Association. He's agreed to join you. Reggie, good evening.

1134
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 2: I know you in the middle of a busy time,

1135
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 2: so I really appreciate you taking the half an hour.

1136
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us.

1137
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 19: Good evening as even and good evening to the listeners. No,

1138
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 19: it's my pleasure.

1139
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 2: One of the interesting things about your industry and I

1140
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 2: was thinking a little bit about it today. I am

1141
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 2: sure that almost everybody in South Africa has been to

1142
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 2: a fuel station four coll and has been in a

1143
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 2: car that was being filled up, or been in a

1144
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 2: taxi that was being filled up, or has walked to

1145
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 2: one or whatever in some way. So in terms of

1146
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 2: an industry, you reach absolutely everybody, and I wonder if

1147
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 2: that maybe shows us how big this industry is. We

1148
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 2: don't always quite realize the scale of it. There are

1149
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 2: petrol stations literally everywhere, and it's a big.

1150
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 19: Country absolutely, I mean, fuel is daily need, as you know,

1151
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 19: and this industry is actually extremely big and we contribute

1152
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 19: you know, quite you know, substantially to the country's did

1153
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 19: it as well. And also in terms of just the employment,

1154
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 19: I mean the industry, just the retail industry employees over

1155
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 19: ninety thousand you know employees, so it's quite a significant

1156
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 19: in the industry.

1157
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 2: So most of those employees are probably fuel attendance. We

1158
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 2: all interact with the people who fill pump the tanks,

1159
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 2: and the people you pay and the people you transact with.

1160
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 2: How much is going on in the background out a

1161
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 2: filling station because there must be other things to manage

1162
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 2: and other things to do.

1163
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 19: Yeah, so there's quite a lot, you know, and it's

1164
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 19: very complex and to the newcomer to the industry it

1165
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 19: can actually be overwhelming. Firstly because it's a highly regulated,

1166
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 19: you know industry. We're not only regulated by the DMPR,

1167
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 19: which is the Department of Mineral and Petroum Resources. We

1168
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 19: also regulated, you know, in terms of the Beginning Council,

1169
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 19: the motor Industry, Bageting council one of the biggest bargeting

1170
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 19: councils in South Africa, so the fuel sector.

1171
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 11: Is one of the sectors in that backening council.

1172
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 19: So, you know, starting just with the regulation itself, you know,

1173
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 19: the key one obviously is that when you want to

1174
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 19: get into the sector, you need to have the proper licenses.

1175
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 11: So every activity in the sect or in the value chain.

1176
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 19: Is actually regulated and has to have a specific license,

1177
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 19: from manufacturing to storage, distribution and wholesaling, and normally the

1178
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 19: storage distribution and wholesaling will you actually need to want

1179
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 19: a license for that, which is the wholesale license. And

1180
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 19: then on reselling you need two types of licenses. So

1181
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,479
Speaker 19: there is firstly what you call the site license that's

1182
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 19: really for the ownership of the land. So if you

1183
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 19: own the land, then you have to actually get that license.

1184
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 19: And the process, if we have the type you can

1185
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 19: talk about it. This is one of the Agoras processes

1186
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:06,439
Speaker 19: that you can ever imagine, especially when you actually want

1187
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 19: to you know, establish a new site, if you've got

1188
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 19: a piece of land and you want to cite license

1189
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 19: so that you can then do a business. But in

1190
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 19: the most let's just focus on the sites that are

1191
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 19: already in operation.

1192
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 2: Sure they are. I just wanted to say, I'm sorry

1193
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 2: to interrupt you. I mean, you make the point that

1194
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 2: it's highly regulated, and obviously it has to be for safety,

1195
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 2: and then it is for economic reasons because the retail

1196
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 2: price of petrol is regulated. So what I wanted to

1197
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,919
Speaker 2: ask is that the downside of that for someone who

1198
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 2: is starting one or for an owner is the sheer

1199
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 2: amount of paperwork. Everything has to be done properly. The upside,

1200
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 2: The upside is that it is an entirely predictable business.

1201
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 2: Is that the only thing that can change is demand

1202
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 2: for fuel. And I know there'll be a bit of seasonality,

1203
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 2: but generally speaking, it's an entirely predictable business. And what

1204
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 2: could be better than that?

1205
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 19: Actually is the opposite, really, absolutely the opposite.

1206
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 11: You see. It's that that I cannot show this graphically, but.

1207
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 19: You know, if you look at if you were industry globally,

1208
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 19: you know, the industry is actually evolved through a four

1209
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 19: faced framework, you know, from phase one to phase four.

1210
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 19: So in phase one is where the industry was highly regulated,

1211
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 19: and those were the good days. You remember, the old

1212
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 19: good days, even off the social blue pump, you know,

1213
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 19: when both patrol was fully regulated. When supply was regulated,

1214
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 19: everything was regulated. There you could actually make money lying

1215
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 19: in the beach. And also in that phase there were

1216
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 19: very few service stations. But as you move along to

1217
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 19: phase two, then you find that on supply there is

1218
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 19: the regulation starting by the time you come to phase

1219
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 19: three and four, where we are, the supply is completely

1220
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:18,640
Speaker 19: you know, a deregulated.

1221
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 11: You can almost get fueled everywhere.

1222
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 19: You know, you just need this wholesale license and you

1223
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 19: can actually get the fuel directly, whereas in phase one

1224
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:32,440
Speaker 19: this was only restricted with the all measures. So also

1225
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 19: a lot of other things changes, Stephen, even the dynamics

1226
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 19: on the margins. You know, by the time you come

1227
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:45,440
Speaker 19: to phase three, the margins are actually almost non existing.

1228
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 19: Like if you look at the margins now, I mean

1229
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 19: the operational margin of operating Chazy servistation, you're talking about

1230
01:08:54,400 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 19: two percent net matching before checks, right, so in these

1231
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 19: shops you're looking between three and five percent net matching.

1232
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,799
Speaker 19: That is very low in comparison what you would see

1233
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 19: as a standard. And besides that, then you then have

1234
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:16,640
Speaker 19: things like you know, volumes which are declining because of

1235
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 19: a number of reasons plateteral ysms including you know, you know,

1236
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 19: efficient vehicles that are consuming much more less, you know,

1237
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 19: fewer than the way. But then we were they weare

1238
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 19: twenty years ago, so that is decreased the volumes. We

1239
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,759
Speaker 19: then have people working from home, et cetera, et cetera.

1240
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 19: And then you then have illegal trading also in the

1241
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 19: mix that is typical of Phase three and Phase four markets.

1242
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 2: And then yeah, yeah, it's a I mean, I get

1243
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 2: that there's a lot more to it than we see,

1244
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 2: and there's a lot more that the owners of the

1245
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 2: four courts have to do. I did want to ask Reggie,

1246
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 2: when the price goes up, and we all know it's

1247
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 2: going to go up. When that happens, do you notice

1248
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 2: any different difference in sales volumes? And I ask because

1249
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,680
Speaker 2: most people will find it very difficult to change their

1250
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 2: mode of transport from whatever it is at the moment,

1251
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,439
Speaker 2: right and at the same time, when we have such

1252
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 2: a big increase, you think some people will try. So

1253
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 2: when the price goes up, do you notice any change

1254
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:23,879
Speaker 2: in what is sold in terms of volume?

1255
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:28,479
Speaker 19: Definitely, the volumes do drop, you know, because people have

1256
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:31,600
Speaker 19: a budget for fuel. You know, if I've got a

1257
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:36,560
Speaker 19: six hundred trent monty budget. You know, people don't necessarily

1258
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 19: you know, they say, now the price has gone up,

1259
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:42,719
Speaker 19: so I need to up up my budget.

1260
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 16: You know.

1261
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 19: So people tend to stick to their budget in terms

1262
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 19: of you know, spending. And what then people do is

1263
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 19: that they just tend to drive less because they are

1264
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 19: conscious that you know, the letters that they've got won't

1265
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 19: take them that far. So definitely there is a change

1266
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 19: in terms of the volumes and the purchases. Another interesting

1267
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 19: another interesting dynamic is the cost of doing business by

1268
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 19: the retailer. I'll just give you one example. A credit

1269
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 19: card cost currently is thirty five cents a liter. You know,

1270
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 19: when you look at the net marching that I was

1271
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:34,759
Speaker 19: talking about before, you know, profit, they realize net marchin

1272
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,760
Speaker 19: is around thirty three cents a liter. So if you

1273
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 19: do swipe on a credit card, you're already selling at

1274
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 19: a loss. Now, when the pan price goes up, that

1275
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 19: loss also increases. So it's a double whamy for the

1276
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 19: retailer in terms of the operational cost.

1277
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 2: Why is the credit card cost so expensive on fuel

1278
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 2: compared to other goods.

1279
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 19: It is because it's to the pump price. So it's

1280
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 19: one point seventy five percent of the pump price. So

1281
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 19: you know, if you look at the current let's say

1282
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 19: you LP ninety five inland, Gwendran sent per lita one

1283
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 19: point seventy five percent of that to will give you

1284
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 19: round about thirty five cents a liter, which is two

1285
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 19: cents more than the realized margin that you're supposed to have.

1286
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 11: So it just basically wipes away.

1287
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 19: And why is that It is because to this date,

1288
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,679
Speaker 19: the department has not allocated the credit card cost into

1289
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 19: the margin. And we've been asking for that review, as

1290
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 19: you know, for four years. It's almost finally happening now.

1291
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 19: But now we've got now this new dynamic coming in.

1292
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,759
Speaker 19: We're hoping that's going to be sorted out. So really,

1293
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 19: a lot of service stations are just hardly making it.

1294
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:54,720
Speaker 19: I can tell you now that a service station that

1295
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:58,719
Speaker 19: is doing less than three hundred thousand liters of fuel

1296
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 19: a month is a struggling service station. And the majority

1297
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 19: of service stations are in that bracket.

1298
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 11: So it's not as cozy as this.

1299
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 2: Look.

1300
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 19: You see the cash being exchanged, you see the credit

1301
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:15,599
Speaker 19: cards being swiped. You know of the total amount that

1302
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:20,840
Speaker 19: the retailer colleagues you know, at the sale point, they

1303
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 19: only retain twenty percent of that eighty percent of that

1304
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 19: goes back to the old companies and the government.

1305
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 2: Sure, if people are making a loss, Reggie, why are

1306
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:35,040
Speaker 2: there so many petrol stations everywhere? It doesn't make sense.

1307
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 19: Of course, you can go to the poorest of the

1308
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 19: poorest countries, right even in Africa. And this question is

1309
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 19: actually sometimes needs to be analyzed if you look at

1310
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 19: the amount of unemployment in South Africa, right, if you

1311
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 19: look at the people that are desperate for opportunities in

1312
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 19: South Africa, just to even get into this service station

1313
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 19: is very difficult.

1314
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 11: So people are just sticking with what they have, you know, and.

1315
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 19: The hope for the future obviously is on the convenience retelling.

1316
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:17,320
Speaker 19: But the convenience retelling itself, you know, as I told you,

1317
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 19: the netmachines around three percent to five percent. So, but

1318
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:26,320
Speaker 19: it's really a survival mode. There are very few service

1319
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 19: stations that really make it and cling it. Because I say,

1320
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 19: if you are actually pumping above you know, three hundred

1321
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 19: thousand upwards, then that is a viable service station. You

1322
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 19: can make money there, but to the majority are actually

1323
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:42,720
Speaker 19: below that benchmark.

1324
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:46,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely accept that there's a lack of economic

1325
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 2: opportunity and are completely understands you as you have explained it,

1326
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,679
Speaker 2: accept the numbers that you've given us. It still seems

1327
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 2: to me quite a difficult industry to get into, and

1328
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 2: that people who are trying to get into an industry,

1329
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 2: even to create their own businesses and the their own

1330
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 2: assets in capital, would look at something that's a little

1331
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:06,680
Speaker 2: less regulated and a little less difficult. Because to get

1332
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 2: to three hundred thousand least it is going to take

1333
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:10,599
Speaker 2: a lot. I'm going to take a lot of time.

1334
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:12,080
Speaker 2: There must be other ways to make money.

1335
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:17,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, there is. Actually the demand is very high.

1336
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 19: But you know, but the market is already saturated, you know,

1337
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 19: as there are very few new service stations that are

1338
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 19: being built. As I explained, there is a regorss process

1339
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:34,640
Speaker 19: of objecting even to those sites to ensure that the

1340
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 19: existing ones don't suffer because there is no economic viability

1341
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:43,799
Speaker 19: of over a certain number of service station per location.

1342
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 19: So but then so there are two opportunities here. So

1343
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 19: there are service stations where which are owned and operated

1344
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 19: by the retailer. Right, those are almost closed because those

1345
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 19: are owned the families. So I pass on to my.

1346
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 11: My generations because I own the land.

1347
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 19: Right, So about fifty percent of service stations are locked

1348
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:17,599
Speaker 19: there is no movement, So and then the fifty percent

1349
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 19: is where then they are franchised by the old companies.

1350
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 19: So and then those you've got like five year disagreements,

1351
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 19: you know, and if a retailer is performing well, then

1352
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 19: they likely to be renewed by the old company because

1353
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 19: all the old company wants.

1354
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:36,760
Speaker 11: They are competing, competing for performance.

1355
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 19: And it's really like then those where there's none renewals

1356
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 19: or where then obviously old companies now are forced to

1357
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 19: actually drive transformation. They make that concepted effort to do that,

1358
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:55,360
Speaker 19: but it's within those you know, restrictions and limitations.

1359
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:57,880
Speaker 2: That's so interesting that they're sort of locked in because

1360
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 2: it's families. Reggie s appears, the CEO of the Field

1361
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:04,559
Speaker 2: Retailers Association, discussing what it's like in the fuel industry

1362
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 2: right now. Eight minutes state.

1363
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 14: The Money Show Stephen Flutters is brought to you by

1364
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 14: APSA Islamic Banking celebrating twenty years of banking rooted in value.

1365
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:19,680
Speaker 4: Her Money Show, How I Make My.

1366
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 2: Money Right, We've got Reggie's to be back very briefly

1367
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 2: we've got a thirty seconds left, Reggie, sorry about this,

1368
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:29,120
Speaker 2: we had a break in the communication. Very quickly if

1369
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,719
Speaker 2: you can. So, I'm about to start a filling station.

1370
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 2: I've got the land. It's in Santon. It's a nice,

1371
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 2: rich site. I want to pick and Pay or Checkers

1372
01:17:37,080 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 2: or Woolworths to partner with me. Who has the power

1373
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:43,840
Speaker 2: and the negotiation? Me or them?

1374
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:47,799
Speaker 20: If you've got the land, you have the power negotiation, Steven.

1375
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:53,639
Speaker 20: That has changed since actually we had the new regulation

1376
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:57,719
Speaker 20: pricing regime since twenty ten, which is something that is good.

1377
01:17:57,840 --> 01:17:59,640
Speaker 20: So you've got a power, but you have to be

1378
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 20: to have the knowledge at the moment. Most of the

1379
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:06,120
Speaker 20: people they actually come, you know, not with the knowledge.

1380
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 20: And obviously you know, knowledge is power, and you know

1381
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 20: in the necotiation than the old company just as much

1382
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:16,120
Speaker 20: as they do. But what normally happens is that you know,

1383
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:19,679
Speaker 20: those agreements then tends to be for ten years five

1384
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 20: plus five. Then after ten years, once people have lent

1385
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 20: you know the game, it tends them to negotiate even

1386
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 20: much better for.

1387
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 2: The newal sure that least, Reggie, I'm glad we've got

1388
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 2: an answer to the question. We do have to go

1389
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:33,799
Speaker 2: now I'm afraid, but thank you for your time. Reggie

1390
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 2: Sabia is the CEO of the few retailers associations. It's

1391
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 2: such a big industry. There's so much more to ask

1392
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:41,599
Speaker 2: and I'm sure we will find out a lot more

1393
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 2: about the oil industry over the next few weeks. Reggie,

1394
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 2: thanks very much indeed for being with U Sonhow I

1395
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 2: Make My Money?

1396
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:52,080
Speaker 14: The Money Show Stephen Flutcher is brought to you by

1397
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:57,040
Speaker 14: APSO Islamic Banking celebrating twenty years of banking rooted in value.

1398
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:01,080
Speaker 2: So a quick look it was happening into nationally, and

1399
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:03,760
Speaker 2: I think a little bit of the exuberance, there's word

1400
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,519
Speaker 2: irrational as it may be in the US is worn off.

1401
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 2: The dal Jones is up one point three, the Nasdaq

1402
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:12,320
Speaker 2: is up one point one nine, and five hundred up

1403
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 2: one point one three. They were up by over two

1404
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 2: percent earlier in the day on news of that decision

1405
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 2: by Trump. So let's just keep it very close on

1406
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 2: all of that is going to pan out back tomorrow,

1407
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 2: good evening. It's a