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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk little.

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Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Crutis is brought to you

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Speaker 3: by Abscess cib proud host of the Africa Impact Matters

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Speaker 3: series podcast. Abster is an authorized FSB and registered credit

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Speaker 3: to provider. Eight minutes after sex good evening, Welcome to

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Speaker 3: the program. I'm Stephen Curtis. Quite an interesting day in

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Speaker 3: many ways pepcor results quite revealing about what's happening in

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Speaker 3: our society around cell phones. I'll talk about that in

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Speaker 3: a moment. Natasha Singh is the new head of the

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Speaker 3: Large or the head of the new Large and International

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Speaker 3: of the Large Business Forum at SARS. We will talk

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Speaker 3: to her about what they want to achieve with the

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Speaker 3: new body in a moment. A lot coming around tourism

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Speaker 3: the SIU as we were finishing the show last night,

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Speaker 3: confirming that in fact they are now investigating allegations of

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Speaker 3: maladministration at say tourism. You remember the backstory to this,

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Speaker 3: the Tourism and Minister Patricia de Little kind of out

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Speaker 3: of nowhere firing the board. She said the board had

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Speaker 3: not been meeting correctly. The board says, well, we were

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Speaker 3: taking action against the CEO after the orders to General

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Speaker 3: made findings against her. It's a very complicated story, but

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Speaker 3: certainly developments there. Mark Swilling, the Professor, he's been talking

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Speaker 3: a little bit about how you would reform our finance

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Speaker 3: architecture to make sure there's money available for investment in infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: It's fascinating. His whole point is we need infrastructure, we

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Speaker 3: need the investment. We actually do have the money. It's

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Speaker 3: about the way the money flows. Doctor Lafono Mulawuzzi's got

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Speaker 3: some comments to make about how you would restructure boards

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Speaker 3: of the public Investment Corporation other SOEs. I think that's

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Speaker 3: an important conversation. And before seven o'clock as well. Ramaseela

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Speaker 3: Gunn is the CEO at Zida. They own Avers budget,

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Speaker 3: they run Avers budget, they're massive fleet manager.

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Speaker 2: There's been a lot of sort of.

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Speaker 3: Information dart numbers coming from her toel Group saying their

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Speaker 3: occupancies have been higher. Looks like something's going on in

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Speaker 3: the tourist market as well. At John Maatham on Cape

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Speaker 3: Talk was saying this afternoon, in fact, he heard anecdotally

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Speaker 3: that trying to rent a car in Cape Town is very,

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Speaker 3: very difficult at the moment. I know it's incredibly hot

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Speaker 3: in Cape Town as well, so just be very careful

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Speaker 3: through that heat. Welcome to the show. It's ten minutes

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Speaker 3: after six The Laly Show.

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Speaker 1: With Stephen Kruders Live on ninety two point seven and

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Speaker 1: one six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus NAP

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Speaker 1: and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: So there was news today from Pepcore that they sold

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Speaker 3: thirteen and a half million phoned handsets in the last

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Speaker 3: financial year and the vast majority of those are pre paid.

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Speaker 3: They sell I think eighty percent of the prepaid handsets

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Speaker 3: in South Africa. I mean, the numbers are astonishing, thirteen

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Speaker 3: and a half million in one year, and it made

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Speaker 3: me just wonder what's going on there. So we know

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Speaker 3: that mt and Vodacom have lost prepaid revenue. Telcom has

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Speaker 3: increased prepaid revenue and they've obviously done it through price.

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Speaker 3: And if they've done it through price, is that in

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Speaker 3: encouraging this growth of the sales of mobile phone handsets

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Speaker 3: from pepcor And it led me to ask you this question,

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Speaker 3: are you on prepaid or are you on contract? And

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Speaker 3: why I've been on contract for a long time. I

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Speaker 3: did go through about a two year period. I thought,

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Speaker 3: let me try prepaid. It was fine, it worked, It

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Speaker 3: did actually work out more cheaply. I dropped a phone,

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Speaker 3: needed a new one. Do you need me to finish

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Speaker 3: the story? I think you know the rest of the story.

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Speaker 3: I felt I needed to go on a contract about

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Speaker 3: a year ago. I needed a new phone, and I

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Speaker 3: do like a particular phone, and I don't like another

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Speaker 3: particular phone. You can do your own guessing on that.

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Speaker 3: And I realized that to buy the phone would make

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Speaker 3: the handset roughly one third cheaper than it would have

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Speaker 3: been if I had gone on contract. So I tipped

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Speaker 3: into the bond and bought it, and I still have it.

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Speaker 3: And that means what I pay for a contract, what

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Speaker 3: I pay for a very small contract, is not very

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Speaker 3: much at all. I'd just like to know why are

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Speaker 3: you you on prepaid or why are you on contract?

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Speaker 3: Seven two seven oh two one seven oh two. You

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Speaker 3: can feel free to tell us what kind of phone

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Speaker 3: as well, if you're particularly fond of it. Also double one,

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Speaker 3: double A three oh seven O two and two one

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Speaker 3: four four six so five sixty seven.

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Speaker 1: The Money Show on seven oads Monday till.

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Speaker 3: Friday, six to a pm well SARS now formerly launching

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Speaker 3: the Large Business Forum, expected to bring the country's largest

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Speaker 3: corporate taxpayers together. It creates a sort of relationship model.

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Speaker 3: The head of the forum is Natasha Saying, a director

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Speaker 3: for Large and International Business at SARS. Natasha, good evening,

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Speaker 3: are ready to appreciate the time. What do you expect

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Speaker 3: the forum to actually do? Why are you creating it now?

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Speaker 4: Good evening, Stephen, and thanks for having me on the show.

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Speaker 4: So so firstly, let me step back just for the

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Speaker 4: establishment of the Large Business International segment, which in itself

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Speaker 4: is an international So basically understanding that large businesses are

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Speaker 4: the most significant contributors to the fiscus and in Sarsa's case,

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Speaker 4: contributes to what one third of our total taxes. Colle

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Speaker 4: to buy your organization, either directly or as an intermediary.

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Speaker 4: And secondly, large businesses are unique given their geographical location,

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Speaker 4: their sophistication, and tax compliance across various jurisdictions in which

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Speaker 4: they operate. We therefore have a differentiated service offering and

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Speaker 4: compliance model to suit this taxpayer segment. And just as

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Speaker 4: large businesses contribute significant revenue, when large businesses do not comply,

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Speaker 4: they also present the highest risk to the FISCUS. So collectively,

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Speaker 4: the model is relationship led with a dedicated relationship manager

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Speaker 4: at a single point of entry. Now to add to this,

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Speaker 4: the Large Business Forum, which was recently launched, is one

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Speaker 4: of the many offerings in this segment that defines the

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Speaker 4: differentiated service model that we are introducing and allows us

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Speaker 4: an opportunity to engage proactively on matters of common interest

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Speaker 4: on the unique issues that impact large business compliance. It's

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Speaker 4: a strategic platform and one of many to come to

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Speaker 4: enable mature, honest and purposeful dialogue between stars and m

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Speaker 4: senior leadership of our large businesses across various sectives.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I mean it doesn't mean I presume, yes, you'll

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Speaker 3: talk more, but it doesn't change the way that you

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Speaker 3: that you treat them. You're not going to treat a

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Speaker 3: big company differently to how you treat Stephen. Obviously we

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Speaker 3: have a completely different relationship. But it doesn't change what

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Speaker 3: you actually get from them, is my point.

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Speaker 4: From SARS as a whole. The SARSA has introduced a

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Speaker 4: segment model when it comes to taxpayers. So tax payers

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Speaker 4: do have different segments. For example, you have a high

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Speaker 4: routed individual segment and like the large business segment. We

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Speaker 4: have a different operating model in which we address our taxpayers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, no, that makes sense to me. Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Are there particular compliance threats that you see from some

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Speaker 3: of our biggest taxpayers, and you made the point about

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Speaker 3: what happens and if they don't pay, And in fact,

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Speaker 3: I think there've been one or two court cases that

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Speaker 3: are quite interesting. I mean that can have quite a

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Speaker 3: big impact on the fiscus.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and this is what keeps us awake at night,

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Speaker 4: generally speaking, a non compliance to the serious impact on

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Speaker 4: the fiscal and monetary policies of our country. And despite

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Speaker 4: the significant progress that we've made, we still have a

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Speaker 4: long way to go. And this is evidenced by the

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Speaker 4: fact that not all revenue due is collected. We know

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Speaker 4: this because of the existence of the significant tax gap.

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Speaker 4: Not all traders legitimate. We know this by the fact

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Speaker 4: that illicit trade and tax evasion costs our economy billions annually.

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Speaker 4: And we know that all taxpayers and traders are not

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Speaker 4: always compliant. So whilst a theory of compliance tells us

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Speaker 4: that most taxpayers are honest and simply want to meet

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Speaker 4: their tax obligations with the least effort and cost. We

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Speaker 4: know that there are some taxpayers who choose willfully not

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Speaker 4: to comply and engage in harmful tax practices. From a

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Speaker 4: large business perspective, the biggest compliant compliance threat takes the

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Speaker 4: form of base erosion and profit shifting deem so because

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Speaker 4: it creates a permanent loss of tax revenue and often

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Speaker 4: involve shifting the tax oil based from onshore to offshore

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Speaker 4: or tax shielded entities. The biggest themes we've see under

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Speaker 4: debts include exotic structures and financing arrangements that lead to

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Speaker 4: tax leakage, for example, the location of certain functions and

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Speaker 4: low tax jurisdictions, share by that transactions instead of straightforward dividends,

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Speaker 4: and other international transactions that defy commercial reality. So business

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Speaker 4: if we're not in the business of tax but in

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Speaker 4: the business of goods and services, and taxes supposed to

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Speaker 4: just happen. However, if tax starts ragging the commercial tale

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Speaker 4: of business, then transactions start to display these non compliant

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Speaker 4: and unusual features.

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Speaker 3: Natasha saying really appreciate the time, Thank you, Director for

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Speaker 3: Large and International Business at SAR seventeen. After six Spearite

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Speaker 3: is on x at A Stephen kreutz Well, a former

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Speaker 3: chair it is a Tourism oper Polani calling for the

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Speaker 3: Special Investigating Units to probe what he says was political

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Speaker 3: interference by the Tourism Minister Patricia de Little at the body.

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Speaker 3: The SIU confirmed last night's received the proclamation from the

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Speaker 3: President to investigate the organization. Polana and the rest of

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Speaker 3: the board were fired by DELLO that suspended the CEO, Nomberlelgallei,

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Speaker 3: were following adverse findings against her by the orders to

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Speaker 3: General or Well. Opah Pilana, a former board member of

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Speaker 3: SA Tourism on the line, Now, Opah, good evening, what

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Speaker 3: do you actually want the SIU to do here? How

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Speaker 3: far must they go?

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Speaker 5: Thank you, Thank you, Sevin, and good evening to your listeners.

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Speaker 5: Actually must just start by welcoming this proclamation and we're

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Speaker 5: saying this is long over you and it really needed

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Speaker 5: to happen, and it needed to happen as quickly as possible.

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Speaker 5: And I think what we are then happy about is

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Speaker 5: that it will get into exactly what we were complaining

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Speaker 5: about about the competency of the suspended CEO, who at

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Speaker 5: the time was the CFO when most of these transitions

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Speaker 5: were happening, and we they this matter sharply, but instead

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Speaker 5: of us dealing with this matter, the minister chose to

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Speaker 5: fire us.

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Speaker 3: There've been various court cases about this. The Minister had

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Speaker 3: to go to Parliament. She gave, as you would expect

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Speaker 3: from Patricia de Little, quite a strong defense. She says

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Speaker 3: she's done nothing wrong. This court action and the way

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Speaker 3: I understand, I mean all of us could take a

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Speaker 3: very long time before we get to some kind of outcome.

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Speaker 5: Look, Stephens, at the end of the day, all of

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Speaker 5: Usthma's be held accountable and it doesn't matter how long

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Speaker 5: it takes. It is a question of principle. If we

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Speaker 5: want to save this country from political overreach, we've got

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Speaker 5: to have men and women that are brave enough that

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Speaker 5: can speak truth to the power. And this is exactly

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Speaker 5: what this team of form about members is doing, because

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Speaker 5: it is in the interest of the country not to

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Speaker 5: allow politician to run rogue.

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Speaker 3: What do you believe was that going on? I mean,

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Speaker 3: what I've never quite understood in all of this is

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Speaker 3: on your version the law was defending leeway. So the

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Speaker 3: obvious question then would be.

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Speaker 5: Why, Well, that's what we want to know, all of us.

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Speaker 5: Why Because they were clear indications of mal administration and

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Speaker 5: it was not out of the findings of the board,

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Speaker 5: it was the aditar General and the Board went further

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Speaker 5: to want to confirm such findings and appointed a forensic

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Speaker 5: investigator and it came and with clear, clear, clear recommendations

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Speaker 5: of what needs to be done, also agreeing with the

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Speaker 5: Audita General, and those reports were given to the Minister

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Speaker 5: who chose not to do anything, but instead when the

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Speaker 5: board took action. Because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 5: it is the board that is heir accountable. The authority

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Speaker 5: rest with the board, not with the Minister when it

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Speaker 5: comes to issue of SAT. So the Board had to

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Speaker 5: act and then the Minister then raised some assibus excuses

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Speaker 5: to why the board needed to be fired.

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Speaker 3: O Papulani, thank you very much. Indeed a former member

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Speaker 3: of the board of SSA Tourism. On the Money Show

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Speaker 3: six to eight PM, one of the most common questions

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Speaker 3: I think he'll ever hear on this show, on any

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Speaker 3: other show on this radio station, is that we need

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Speaker 3: more money for infrastructure and where will it come from?

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Speaker 3: And in his medium term budget policy statement in Guana,

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Speaker 3: the Finance Minister said government was trying to shift money

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Speaker 3: from consumption to investment, but it boils down to the

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Speaker 3: same question where will the money come from? Well, Professor

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Speaker 3: Mark Swilling is a member of the National Planning Commission

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Speaker 3: but also Professor of Urban Innovation at the Center for

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Speaker 3: Sustainability Studies at Stonebosh University, and I think we'll probably

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Speaker 3: speak to him with that hat on about this market evening.

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Speaker 3: You suggest South Africa has the money, it's all about

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Speaker 3: where the money flows and from what you say, the

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Speaker 3: money that we have has not been going into investments

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Speaker 3: for the future, particularly for poorer people.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that's that's I think that's basically true. We have

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Speaker 6: for the past two decades every year committed ourselves to

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Speaker 6: a massive infrastructure program of around a trillion, and every

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Speaker 6: year we fall short.

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Speaker 7: Uh.

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Speaker 6: And it's not because of the fact that we that

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Speaker 6: there isn't sufficient capital within the South African economy to

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Speaker 6: fund this infrastructure. The shortage of funding is specific to

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Speaker 6: the to the national budget, which is which is deemed

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Speaker 6: to be maxed out in other words, what is often

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Speaker 6: referred to the absence of fiscal space in otherwise there's

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Speaker 6: no more money to be spent from the national budget.

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Speaker 6: Some people dispute that. But when you look at overall

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Speaker 6: our financial system and where the money is located across

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Speaker 6: all sectors. In other words, stop just looking at it

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Speaker 6: as public finance versus private finance. Look at the financial

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Speaker 6: system as a system and where the money is located.

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Speaker 6: And what you will discover is that there's plenty of

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Speaker 6: money building up, in particular in the private sector, which

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Speaker 6: is not being invested in fixed assets, in particular infrastructure.

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Speaker 6: And so the challenge is how does that funding get unlocked?

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Speaker 3: How would you then sort of change that. I mean

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Speaker 3: a lot of it is pension money. It goes onto

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Speaker 3: the JC. Maybe it explains while the JC is looking

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Speaker 3: so good while the rest of the economy isn't. It's

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Speaker 3: quite a difficult flow to change, isn't it.

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Speaker 6: It is a difficult flow to change because there's a

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Speaker 6: there's a lot of vested interests. But I think the

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Speaker 6: primary blockage is conceptual. I don't think we have an

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Speaker 6: adequate theory of finance in South Africa and therefore we

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Speaker 6: don't have a methodology to fix the problem. So if

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Speaker 6: I can give a particular, uh a particular example, the

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Speaker 6: way infrastructure used to be funded, governments would issue bonds

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Speaker 6: institutional investors like pension funds would buy the bonds. Government

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Speaker 6: would then spend the money on infrastructure in order to

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Speaker 6: grow the economy. The economy would grow revenues into government

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Speaker 6: would would would increase tax revenues, and then the bonds

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Speaker 6: would then be serviced and that and the investors would

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Speaker 6: get their money back. Was the kind of lazy way

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Speaker 6: in which infrastructure funding was coordinated. However, with state capture

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Speaker 6: and the weakened or what the medium term budget state

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Speaker 6: and referred to as the weakness of the state, there's

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Speaker 6: a lot of confidence in that traditional system, so there

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Speaker 6: has to be a workaround. So, just to give one example,

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Speaker 6: when I was at the DBSA, we set up the

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Speaker 6: Infrastructure Fund. The Infrastructure Fund is a fund that is

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Speaker 6: supposed to take one hundred billion from the fiscus in

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Speaker 6: order to leverage nine hundred billion from institutional investors to

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Speaker 6: create a trillion round front a fund to invest in infrastructure.

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Speaker 6: That's an example of a workaround, and it may not

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Speaker 6: have it's not as fully successful as it should be,

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Speaker 6: although I think it's definitely making considerable progress. But it's

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Speaker 6: the kind of thing that the institutional investors and government

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Speaker 6: and the development finance institutions should be getting around a

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Speaker 6: table and figuring out new additional mechanisms like that in

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Speaker 6: order to fund the infrastructure and unlock capital.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting because a loss of confidence is also the

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Speaker 3: reason given for why companies and this is also hugely contested,

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Speaker 3: are setting on so much cash and not investing it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it really tells you about what this issue

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Speaker 3: actually is and it's been like this for a long time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, I mean you.

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Speaker 6: Have two problems resulting in the build up track of cash.

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Speaker 6: The one is as the state owned enterprises, which is

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Speaker 6: thirty per centers of our GDP weakened and got holded out,

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Speaker 6: private sector investments in the so is basically dried up.

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Speaker 6: So that would have been money that goes into infrastructure

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Speaker 6: if the soees were still okay. So that's one area

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Speaker 6: of so where's that money going? And the other is

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Speaker 6: exactly what you're saying. If you look at the numbers,

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Speaker 6: private companies are not investing significant parts of their profits

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Speaker 6: in as they are essentially investing in replacement rather than

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Speaker 6: than expansion, because there is because of the levels of uncertainty,

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Speaker 6: there is a reluctance to sink money into a fix

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Speaker 6: assets only that are going to generate a return over

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Speaker 6: twenty thirty years, and and and in the amongst institutional investors,

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Speaker 6: there's a there's a growing pressure from households, for example,

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Speaker 6: to to increase liquidity, in other words, make it makes

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Speaker 6: more money available to float around and less money going

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Speaker 6: into fix because of uncertainty. So under uncertainty and the

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Speaker 6: lack of trust is underpinning. Now you don't sit back

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Speaker 6: and say, well, let's wait for governance to get fixed. Oh,

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Speaker 6: let's build trust and then we're going to invest. No,

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Speaker 6: you build trust and therefore greater certainty by collaborating and

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Speaker 6: co creating the institutions that need to be built to

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Speaker 6: redirect capital flows where it needs to go. For example,

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Speaker 6: if you want to build the middle class, and you

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Speaker 6: want to halt the shrinkage of the middle class, which

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Speaker 6: is what we're seeing, you have to get cash into

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Speaker 6: the small businesses. There's seven hundred thousand small businesses that

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Speaker 6: are cash staff that create more jobs than large businesses,

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Speaker 6: and and and and are responsible for more value add

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Speaker 6: and yet they are cash staffed. So we have these

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Speaker 6: financial institutions which are very profitable. Some of the most

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Speaker 6: profitable banks in the world that can't figure out how

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Speaker 6: to get sufficient capital into small businesses. Come on, you know,

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Speaker 6: surely you can do better than that.

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Speaker 3: Professor Marx Swilling, thank you, really good to hear from you.

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Speaker 3: Here is a commission at the National Planning Commission, but

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Speaker 3: academically a professor of Urban Innovation at the Center for

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Speaker 3: Sustainability Studies at the University of Stellenbosh.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show the Market.

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Speaker 3: Ryan here has head of fundamental Sales at abscess CYRB Ryan.

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Speaker 3: Good evening, a strong update from pepcor. They're selling literally

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Speaker 3: millions of phone hand sets and they're getting into bank.

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Speaker 7: Yeah evening, Stephen, and Yeah. Interestingly, the share actually closed

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Speaker 7: down about one and a half percent though, and that's

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Speaker 7: primarily because of the fact that if you look at

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Speaker 7: their most recent trading updates for the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 7: it's been meaningfully softer than the same period last year.

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Speaker 7: But to your earlier point, I mean, the numbers on

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Speaker 7: the services looked pretty decent, operating profit of fourteen percent,

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Speaker 7: and one of the star performers in the business was,

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Speaker 7: of course the fintech operation, which includes their financial services business.

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Speaker 7: They saw their operating profit go up by close to

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Speaker 7: thirty percent, so to your point earlier, they indicated also

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Speaker 7: that they've made progress toward getting a banking license with

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Speaker 7: the potential authority, which of course is part of a

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Speaker 7: broader strategic journey that they're undertaking to deeply ecosystem and

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Speaker 7: to increase the monetizing of the customer engagements that they've

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Speaker 7: got in place.

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Speaker 3: And then as Zita's results out, they own Avison budget,

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Speaker 3: they seem to be more people using more rental cars

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Speaker 3: more often.

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Speaker 7: Definitely probably part of the sort of growing tourism volumes

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Speaker 7: that we see coming through here, and of course just

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Speaker 7: the overall economy showing just perhaps some really green shoots. Possibly.

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Speaker 7: I remain hopeful as ever, so that stock closed up

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Speaker 7: eleven percent. Yeah, the results were slightly ahead of our forecast,

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Speaker 7: so maybe the market's reaction was a function of very

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Speaker 7: low liquidity in the stock. But I think the other

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Speaker 7: attractive story that played out there today was of course

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Speaker 7: the fact that the dividend came in at about fifty

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Speaker 7: percent of their earnings, so clearly the market very cheered

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Speaker 7: by that.

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Speaker 3: And then lots of talk about a deal coming really

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Speaker 3: from Washington about Russia and Ukraine sort of in the

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Speaker 3: Russia Ukraine conflict, even though there's quite a few suggestions

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Speaker 3: that it's very much a Russian plan.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's interesting to say that I as of now,

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Speaker 7: I still haven't seen any specific commentary from the Russians

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Speaker 7: per se, As I understood this initial announcement that was

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Speaker 7: largely the UA that appear to convince Ukraine to accept

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Speaker 7: the peace proposal, which the market initially took. Is quite

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Speaker 7: positive and basically the well priced style bring to all

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Speaker 7: price and style. You saw the dollar week in a

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Speaker 7: bit there in p future hit session highs. But again,

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Speaker 7: I think until we've got sort of formal coming from Russia,

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Speaker 7: perhaps the market's likely to take a more cautious view

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Speaker 7: on this over the course of the next couple of days.

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Speaker 7: And of course the important question is what kind of

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Speaker 7: president is a set right? I mean, if Russia's got

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Speaker 7: essentially sort of permission to move geopolitically within Eastern Europe

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Speaker 7: and then you know, ultimately can ask for forgiveness afterward,

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Speaker 7: that might not be a great outcome for the rest

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Speaker 7: of Europe.

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Speaker 3: After all, Ryan Hill, thank you had a fundamental sales

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Speaker 3: at Abscess CIB just after six thirty Stephen.

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Speaker 8: On seven two seven two one.

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Speaker 3: I was asking you earlier, are you you? Are you

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Speaker 3: on a prepaid phone or a contract phone? And why

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Speaker 3: that's after pep Court told us they sold thirteen and

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Speaker 3: a half million handsets, most of them prepaid last year.

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Speaker 3: I'm on contract for the moment. I have been on

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Speaker 3: prepaid before. I am on contract, but I did buy

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Speaker 3: the handset myself because it was just cheaper if I

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Speaker 3: once I had worked it all out.

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Speaker 2: Voice notes this evening.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Stephen, I'm on contract because adultedly costs me less

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Speaker 3: than being on prepaid.

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Speaker 2: And I also like the choice of the upgrades. It's

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Speaker 2: Kevin from Oldersdrift Kevin, thank you.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I know some people who end up with

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Speaker 3: upgrades where they get sort of two phones because they've

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Speaker 3: just been in a contract for so long. I've also

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Speaker 3: don't necessarily use them that match. I do find it

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Speaker 3: very very interesting one way or another, how that goes

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Speaker 3: your views those seven two seven o two one seven

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Speaker 3: o two contract or prepaid and why.

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Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephen krudis live on ninety two

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Speaker 1: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 1: Media Plus.

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Speaker 8: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: Just kind of call it to seven.

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Speaker 3: All Over the last few months, you'll have heard several

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Speaker 3: reports about the situation at the Public Investment Corporation. It's

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Speaker 3: chief investment officer is on suspension, there's a relatively new CEO.

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Speaker 3: There's still questions about how it's making decisions in the

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Speaker 3: unlisted space. Look at the I suppose disaster that was

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Speaker 3: Daybreak Farms. There's a lot less transparence in the unlisted space,

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Speaker 3: of course. And in the middle of this, I'll call

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Speaker 3: from a former board member of the pic for there

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Speaker 3: to be I suppose what you'd call a major change

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Speaker 3: in how boards of organizations like the pic SOEs more

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Speaker 3: generally would be constituted. Doctor Lafonomuluzi is a former president

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Speaker 3: of the Public Servants Association, also a former non executive

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Speaker 3: director at the pic SO, a former board member. There

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Speaker 3: laon good evening. I really appreciate you coming in. You

437
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 3: say the current system basically gives a cabinet minister too

438
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 3: much power, gives some card blanche to do whatever they

439
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 3: want with the board.

440
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 2: What do you believe we should change?

441
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 9: A good evening, Steven, and thank you for having me.

442
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 9: I think the current legal framework gives the ministers powers

443
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 9: that you know they cannot account for. They do as

444
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 9: they wish and then and patronage become the center of

445
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 9: what they decide to do. With regard to the appointments

446
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 9: of people in the board of this issue is I

447
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 9: will talk specifically about where I was the non executive

448
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 9: director at the PC when we were appointed in twenty

449
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 9: twenty one. You'll remember stif it was a post Impartic

450
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 9: Commission of Inquiry, and then when we came in, the

451
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 9: mandate was to implement the recommendations of the Empartic Commission

452
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 9: and to stabilize the PIC. We came in, the PAC

453
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 9: was sitting at i think between two trillion of asset

454
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 9: under management. Then we managed to take the PAC to

455
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 9: three point five trillion by the time we were removed,

456
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 9: So you could see if appointments are based on performance.

457
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 3: Well hold on because the PRC will always get bigger

458
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 3: because more government workers are putting more money into it.

459
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 3: So I don't know how far we go down that road.

460
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 3: What I am more interested in is, as I understand it,

461
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 3: a cabinet minister, which is a democratic authority. So now

462
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 3: as you need to have a person from the people right,

463
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 3: So that person makes appointments to a board of an

464
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 3: SE or the PRC wears and once they're there, those

465
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 3: people are supposed to govern in the best interests of

466
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: the organization.

467
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 1: That's right.

468
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,719
Speaker 3: And then they appoint a CEO and the executive. Yes,

469
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 3: in your view, what's actually happening, let's talk about the CEO.

470
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 3: The CEO is appointed by the board. By the time

471
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 3: we left, we just appointed. The new CEO is there now.

472
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 3: I think it started on the first of July, and

473
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 3: then we we we we make appointments and send our

474
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 3: recommendation to the minister, and the minister obviously have to

475
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: send that to cabinet for approval.

476
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 2: And then that happened.

477
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 9: So with the board, what happened was our term of

478
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 9: office ended on the the defirst of October, I think

479
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 9: center of October last year.

480
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: When it ended.

481
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 9: One would think that before the time end, the minister

482
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 9: must make a decision whether to reappoint or not appoint

483
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 9: those who are there based on their performance. On the

484
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 9: tay first of October, the minister didn't appoint.

485
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 8: What you did.

486
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 9: On the twelfth of September, I wrote a letter the

487
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 9: chairperson of the board that the p I c board

488
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 9: must submit all the names of the current board members

489
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 9: or those were board members then so that he can

490
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 9: make a decision on on reappointment or appointing new people.

491
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: And then in that in.

492
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 9: That letter there was a thirty days time free So

493
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 9: what happened to be shot? That happened all of us

494
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 9: we submitted and we.

495
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: I'm just going to stop you there. We're not going

496
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 3: to get into the technicalities of this. We need to

497
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: focus on the point. Yeah, the point is that you

498
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 3: believe the people who are pointed to a series should

499
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 3: be more independent than they currently are.

500
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, what you're.

501
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 9: Saying, Yes, what what I'm saying, people who are appointed

502
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 9: the s O s must be independent. That The point

503
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 9: is not people who are appointed. The point is the

504
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 9: act giving the prerogative to appoint board members to is

505
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 9: the ministers. Because when we have you know, a sole

506
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 9: person having that authority and no one is holding that

507
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 9: person to account, then it allows a situation where people

508
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 9: abuse their powers.

509
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 2: So it's said, captures what happened?

510
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 9: Now, Yes, I said, and I said in the article

511
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 9: that I wrote that the President must make sure that

512
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 9: you implement the Zeno Commission recommendation on State owned entities appointment.

513
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: As they are.

514
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 9: Whereby you have a commission that is task to appoint

515
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 9: people to these boss and submit names to the minister.

516
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 9: What the ministers must do is to submit those names

517
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 9: appointed by the Commission to the Cabinet, show for the

518
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 9: Cabinet to make a final approval and make a parah

519
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 9: scrutiny of those That way I sent to them by

520
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 9: the minister. So in insense, I'm saying remove the powers

521
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 9: from one person, because Stephen, you have seen even in

522
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 9: the city that when you have ministers having powers, obviously

523
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 9: patronage will become of the day.

524
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 3: The question that would follow is how then who appoints

525
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: the people to the commission, And the people to the

526
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 3: appointed to the commission would also be appointed by a

527
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 3: political appointees. So I don't know if you fix the problem.

528
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 9: Obviously the people who can be appointed to the Commission

529
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 9: must be appointed by the president. Obviously the president is

530
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 9: a politician as well. But if you have got an

531
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 9: number of people making decisions, obviously you'll have a situation

532
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 9: where the process will be fair. You want to have

533
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 9: a decision where you have people just being removed for

534
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 9: no reason, because if you look at what happened at

535
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 9: PIC the issue of continuity, experience, institutional memory was not

536
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 9: looked at by the minister when you make a decision.

537
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 9: And what is very very concerning is that from from

538
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 9: October last year he subjected us to three performance assessments.

539
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 3: Okay, and we've heard you, Thank you very much. Indeed,

540
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 3: Doctor Lefulomulodzi is a former president of the Public Service

541
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 3: Association and former non executive director of the p i C.

542
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 3: It's eight minutes to seven. In a moment, Ramasella Ganda,

543
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 3: the seer of ZEDA.

544
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 10: The money Show Stephen Croutes is brought to you by

545
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 10: ABS CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters series

546
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 10: pod A, theist FP and registered credit provider.

547
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: Six minutes to seven will the vehicle and fleet operator ZEDA,

548
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: the owners of avers Budget in South Africa, saying their

549
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 3: profit was up by nearly four percent their revenue up

550
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: just one point seven percent in the air to the

551
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 3: end of September. A lot more money coming through from

552
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: leasing vehicles. We're not getting as much value for more

553
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 3: cars that they're actually on selling after they've used them

554
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 3: in the rental fleet. Ramasela Ganda is the CEO of

555
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: Zea Limited, Ramasella, good evening. You're leasing segment where people

556
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: rent cars for longer periods. That seems to have been

557
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 3: up quite dramatically. What drove that growth?

558
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 8: Thank you very much Stevens for having me. You know,

559
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 8: this is a product that they've always heard. You know,

560
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 8: as Zeta, we say we drive usership economy when I

561
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 8: change the way people utilize the vehicle. And we have seen,

562
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 8: you know, a change where people are not committed to

563
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 8: a vehicle and committed to a long term installments sell agrument.

564
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 8: This is really what we're doing. We know we're closing

565
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 8: in the market. We're saying, have access to mobility, but

566
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 8: without the obligation of really having it for a long time.

567
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 8: And that is what is coming very agile, is priced

568
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 8: very well, and you know, we see it resonates with

569
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 8: the market and that is a product that we're saying

570
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 8: the market has been looking for and we're seeing the

571
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 8: benefit of it.

572
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: Is it individuals or companies that are doing it.

573
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 8: It's combination.

574
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 11: We've got public sector customers in it, we've got corporated

575
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 11: say it, We've got individual but in the main we've

576
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 11: got a lot of individuals you know that gets into

577
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 11: into that product.

578
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 8: But that is a product that you know, it's not

579
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 8: just giving the individual. You don't have to worry about

580
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 8: the insurance, tie damage, you know, all kinds of things.

581
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 8: Whenever you want to change the vehicle, you can bring

582
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 8: it back. And that's the flexibility that comes with the product.

583
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 3: In your rental segment, the Avis Budget brand. So your

584
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 3: fleet utilization was up. Are we're seeing a lot more

585
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 3: activity in our hotels. Was there a lot more demand

586
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 3: for your cars? You know where it was coming from.

587
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 8: Look, you know our business is always, says an all

588
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 8: except for this subscription. And that's the reason why we

589
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 8: introduced subscription. That the traditional currental is very predictable and

590
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 8: you know high rate. Now we're getting into the December season,

591
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 8: and that December season, you can imagine places like keep

592
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 8: Town inbound flood going into into that market. You know,

593
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 8: we'll be out of stock in December, no doubt about.

594
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 8: It doesn't matter how many vehicles we put into that.

595
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 8: And also we see that as much as many people

596
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 8: in with regard to local leisure, they go to Keepe Town,

597
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 8: but there's still a lot of consumers still staying behind.

598
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 8: And you know, the GP and you know caser An

599
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 8: has picked up very nicely. We had a law serason

600
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 8: during the flood and the aftermath of everything, but caser

601
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 8: Ain is looking very strong. So locally local consumer could

602
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 8: go to Casarin tourism and you know we still have

603
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 8: the houting still consuming and how thing.

604
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 3: I mean one of the big hotels groups was talking

605
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 3: up case again last week. I realized they have a

606
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 3: big property there. But you say you are seeing growth.

607
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: Is it South Africans going to Ittoquinian Durban or is

608
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 3: it or is it actually people from outside the country.

609
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 8: Mostly local, local sorta Offians are really going to to

610
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 8: kither And and even our You know we do long

611
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 8: term booking South Africans and book launch, but when you

612
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 8: come to Kthern for whatever reason, we can see that

613
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 8: longlea time of booking going that direction.

614
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 3: Maybe there's I don't know, a spate of weddings or.

615
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 8: Something and a good weather, yes that helps in.

616
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 2: The warm sea. I could go on.

617
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 3: The cars that you use, you sell them on when

618
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 3: you finish the resell value of the cars, it seems

619
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: you're not getting as much for them. That's forcing you

620
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 3: to use them for longer, which I imagine pushes their

621
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 3: value down further. Are you suffering from what other companies

622
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 3: are suffering from in the second hand market? Is this

623
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 3: about cheaper new Chinese models.

624
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 8: Look actually to the country. I mean, we had our

625
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 8: own and traditional way of keeping the vehicle for a year,

626
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 8: and we had to ask ourselves with all this evolution

627
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 8: about the Chinese market coming in. But you know, we're

628
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 8: competing with a one year old were competing with a

629
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 8: brain new car because our cars was just one year old,

630
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 8: what will we do to our business and understanding the

631
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 8: market by just extending it by a couple of months,

632
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 8: we yielding even better return. So very interesting that if

633
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 8: you sell a twelve month old today, you're not going

634
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 8: to get better return, But if you sell a vehicle

635
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 8: that got better longer, pero to get good residual del

636
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 8: So it's just about the sweet spot of when you

637
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 8: dispose of that vehicle. And I think because we are

638
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 8: the largest buy of the vehicle, we could see the

639
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 8: prices we getting this vehicle and we were saying, at

640
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 8: this level of buying the vehicle, there's no way we'll

641
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 8: be able to compete with this Chinese model in a

642
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 8: year's time. So keep it longer for a couple of

643
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 8: months between eighteen months twenty four and you you really

644
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 8: come out of it even stronger. And that has been

645
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 8: you know, strategy and tics that it's paid very well.

646
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: I mean, what will surely happen is that cheaper new

647
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: cars will create opportunities for competitors to try and undercut

648
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 3: you on price.

649
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 8: Look when it comes to to to the car sales,

650
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 8: definitely that was the thing, and that's why we postponed

651
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 8: it disposal in the first half.

652
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 3: No sure, but I mean I mean on the rental.

653
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 8: Oh no, no, no rentals. We already in those cheaper cars.

654
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 8: But the only difference about it is because we have

655
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 8: different ways of findancing it, whether we take it on

656
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 8: leads or we take it in the balance sheet. And

657
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 8: you take it on the balance sheet if you want

658
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 8: to take a bill the risk if you can guarantee

659
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 8: that you'll get there, and we've managed to negociate good

660
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 8: lists contract on it that we will have it on

661
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 8: our rental talk, but we're not sure about the resale

662
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 8: value at the moment, so we never you know, most

663
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 8: of them are not on our on our balanche sheet,

664
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 8: but we have them on our rental talk. If you

665
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 8: want to get any hurt this car, you will get it.

666
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 3: Ramasella, thanks very much, indeed really appreciate the time. Ramasela

667
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 3: Ganda is the CEO at Zia to you at the

668
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:01,919
Speaker 3: Money Show seven o'clock.

669
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven

670
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: oh two.

671
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 8: Let's walk at all.

672
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis has brought to you

673
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 3: by Abscess cib proud host of the Africa Impact Matters

674
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 3: series podcast as there is an authorized FSP and registered

675
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 3: credit provider. Seven minutes after seven a loss to come

676
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 3: still taking you WhatsApps, about WhatsApp boys notes you cause,

677
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 3: about whether you're on a prepaid phone or a contract phone?

678
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 3: And why we will talk to tep on Sane, the

679
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 3: R and B Finance and ESG Transactor. I mean it

680
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 3: almost got lost, but Copp ended just as something else

681
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 3: was starting. I forget what the something else is last week,

682
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: but we'll talk about that.

683
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 2: In just a moment.

684
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 3: Rotendo and Dingui is here, the founding director of trib

685
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 3: Africa Advisory. Here's a story about a massive emerald that

686
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 3: I don't quite believe, but I mean it's an amazing story.

687
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 2: And Warren Ingram.

688
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 3: If we're having some good times, if things are going right,

689
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: where do you put your money? Really interesting question your

690
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 3: cause as always on a double one double a three

691
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 3: seven two two one four four six five sixty seven.

692
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 9: What up to.

693
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 8: Stephen on seven two seven oh two one seven two.

694
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 3: If you were listening on seven or two earlier, you

695
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 3: would have heard John Pullman talking to sunguez U Zibi, who,

696
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 3: among other things, as the chair of the Standing Committee

697
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 3: on Public Accounts, and they were talking about the fact

698
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 3: that Collins led Swalow, the former CEO at the Road

699
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: Accident Fund, failed to arrive for his parliamentary hearing today.

700
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 3: A subpoena had been issued, the sheriff had gone to

701
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 3: all of his sort of legally registered addresses, no sign

702
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 3: of him. Then they went to Parliament to Parliament, tried

703
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 3: to get hold of him through other means, no like there,

704
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 3: and he didn't come. And I'm going to say, and

705
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 3: the reason I'm going to say what I'm about to

706
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 3: say is because I saw him so often doing interview

707
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 3: after interview claiming that he had done nothing wrong. And

708
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 3: when we see evidence that someone behaved like a bully

709
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 3: and bullied other members of the Road accident fund other

710
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 3: workers when he had the power, and now runs away

711
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 3: and refuses to answer questions. The most cowardly behavior that

712
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 3: I can imagine. So, when you have the power, you're

713
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 3: incredibly you use that power to bully, and when you

714
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 3: don't have the power, you run away like a coward.

715
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 3: I mean, how else would we term this behavior? Colins,

716
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 3: let swallow you're behaving like a coward. Come and testify,

717
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: answer the questions.

718
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: Stephen has gone.

719
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 3: X at at Stephen krutzvoys notes coming through.

720
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: Are you on prepaid or are you on contract?

721
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 12: Hey, Stephen Prittier from Cape Town. The last time I

722
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 12: took out a cellphone contract would have been round about

723
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 12: nineteen nineteen eight. Since about two thousand and one, I

724
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 12: have been on this same number on prepaid fifty five

725
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 12: brands of it time will last me a very long time,

726
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 12: or ever have to make call as I do have

727
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 12: an office desk phone and I have a home landline.

728
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 7: But when I am at home I.

729
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 12: Need to phone anybody, it would typically be a WhatsApp call.

730
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 12: When I am out and about, I tend not to

731
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 12: accept what App calls from people. If it's some sort

732
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 12: of a person I don't know unless it's going to

733
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 12: be a shortened shovement, because it's going to be my

734
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 12: data that's going to be consumed in terms of data wise,

735
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 12: I take out a twelve month package that gives me

736
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 12: I think for five hundred so six hundred ran. It

737
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 12: gives me one gig a month for twelve months, and

738
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 12: that's on Verdicon so and my handset tends to be

739
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 12: used for about five years. So I know they talk

740
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 12: about upgrades and all that. I don't believe in upgrades.

741
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 12: I believe that all those suburb contracts is you just

742
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 12: paying HP on that device. It's nothing. Really, you're paying

743
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 12: for that phone. I'd rather pay for it cash and

744
00:41:54,760 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 12: I save on everything else by just doing my PREPAIDAR time.

745
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: Like I said, fifty five rand last months.

746
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, interesting using it in a very very careful

747
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 3: way and it can okay, very interesting use of a

748
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 3: cell phone. Thank you, eleven after seven. That's on The

749
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 3: Money Show six to eight pm. Well, just as the

750
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 3: G twenty were starting last weekend, the COP thirty was

751
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 3: finishing in Berlm in Brazil. Step and Sun is a

752
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 3: finance in ESG transacted at R and b ZEPO. Thanks

753
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 3: for coming in good even good to see you again.

754
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 3: Did we make much progress? I mean there's been a

755
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 3: lot of talk about climate. We realize there's an economy

756
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 3: that doesn't want to talk about it. Did we make

757
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 3: much progress in Berlem even in Steven?

758
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: I think we did.

759
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 13: And the question is always what was the expectation going

760
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 13: into this COP. So a lot of people expected like

761
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 13: big announcements and stuff like that. But if you look

762
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 13: at COP typically there is slow progress being made, and

763
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 13: we did have some commitments coming through. We did see

764
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 13: what are now being classified as a cornerstone for plimate change,

765
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 13: and we did you see a lot of announcements coming

766
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 13: through typically yees. Some stuff that we're expecting didn't come through,

767
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 13: but a lot of progress was achieved.

768
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 3: I mean it can be difficult to know something that

769
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 3: looks small and inocuous in an event like this can

770
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 3: actually just change the trajectory by ten percent over one

771
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 3: hundred years. That's what you needed to do. Part of

772
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 3: this they called nationally determined contributions. This is about what

773
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 3: countries actually do exactly. What was their progress there?

774
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 13: I think there was a lot of progress there because

775
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 13: there was an requirement this year for countries to update

776
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 13: and revise their plans because the current plans go up

777
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 13: to twenty twenty five and twenty thirty, so there's a

778
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 13: requirement to now provide twenty thirty five plans. So what

779
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 13: we saw is about one hundred countries submitted their plans,

780
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 13: covering about seventy six percent of global emissions. So in

781
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 13: that regard, there was a lot of our progress. Countries

782
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 13: like South Africa, China, the EU submitted and a lot

783
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 13: of countries across the African continent submitted their revised national plans.

784
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: You talk about water being a cornerstone of climate change,

785
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 3: do you mean water supplies as in drinking water or

786
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 3: do you mean the water temperatures.

787
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 13: I think water supply because of these climate events that

788
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 13: we are seeing, especially the extac climate events, they make

789
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 13: water supply unpredictable. Sometimes they promote pollution, especially in climate change.

790
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 13: So now what is key to the fact that water

791
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 13: is actually a very good enable of for climate mitigation

792
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 13: because then you bring resilience with water, So as you're

793
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 13: solving climate change, you're also solving the water problem. So

794
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 13: there is a marriage that actually happened in this club

795
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 13: that you can't look at them in isolation, So when

796
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 13: you talk climate adaptation, water becomes a key enabler for that.

797
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 3: So COUP was ending, as it was ending, the B

798
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 3: twenty was happening, and as it sort of endeed the

799
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 3: G twenty was starting. Was that much of a synergy?

800
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 3: I mean, interestingly, I mean there's quite a lot of

801
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 3: synergy between Brazil and South Africa. Society is are very similar,

802
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 3: presidents are very similar. Was there a synergy between these

803
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 3: two we're going between these two events.

804
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 13: I think this is this is what the fortunate event

805
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 13: that happened. As COP stay towards closing, there was a

806
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 13: commitment around it's called the Bagut to Belem road Map

807
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 13: to three.

808
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 2: Trillion dollars per annum.

809
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 13: And then what that means is there's a commitment to

810
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 13: facilitate climate funding towards developing countries. And then if you

811
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 13: then look at B twenty, there was a wexstreme there

812
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 13: or a task force looking at energy mix and just transition,

813
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 13: and in it, one of their key priorities was exactly that,

814
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 13: the mobilization of climate finance. So you start to see

815
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 13: that marriage actually happened between COP thirty and the B twenty.

816
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 3: And then obviously it found its home in the G

817
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 3: twenty as well. And the thing about the G twenty

818
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 3: is the economies that matter. And I don't mean to

819
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 3: be rude to others, but it's the biggest economies in

820
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 3: the world, the twenty biggest and and I mean if

821
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 3: you don't get them mobilized behind this, well then nothing

822
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 3: will happen.

823
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,959
Speaker 13: Yes, yes, I think you have to because what is

824
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 13: appreciated is that climate change requires a collective effort, so

825
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 13: no one country can solve it, and there is support

826
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 13: required from developed economistry of developing countries. So platforms like

827
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 13: the B twenty G twenty en COP actually provide a

828
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 13: good platform for the discussions.

829
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 2: There will be a.

830
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 3: COP next year. What do you expect to happen? So, now,

831
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 3: I mean there's always always homework stage. Yes, what's what

832
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 3: are you expecting to happen over the next year?

833
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,319
Speaker 13: Yeah, So the COP next year is going to take

834
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 13: key and then the following year is going to Ethiopia.

835
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 13: But I think the important things are two key items.

836
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 13: One climate finance is going to continue to become a

837
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 13: big topic, but also fossil fuels. There was one agreement

838
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 13: that was never made at this COP is what do

839
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 13: you do about fossil fuels? Do you face them down?

840
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 13: Do you face them out? To transition away? So that

841
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,919
Speaker 13: language wasn't clarified, but I think those two topics will

842
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 13: be quite key going to the next COPS.

843
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 3: I mean it wasn't that clear the G twenty either.

844
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia is a member of the G twenty, So

845
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 3: I mean there's quite a lot of really intricate interesting

846
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 3: international relations politics at play.

847
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 13: Yes, there are, because if you can imagine, this type

848
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 13: of decision also impact economic goals of countries. So it's

849
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 13: quite important that any decision made is made with a

850
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 13: holistic view of what impact you do you will have

851
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 13: on the country itself. So you have countries that are

852
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 13: rich and for so few saying allow us to still

853
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 13: maximize these resources, whereas other countries that are developed as

854
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 13: saying no, let's transition. So I think you're trying to

855
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 13: find that marriage between the two. However, there's an instrument

856
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 13: that came up between COPE and between this transition finance,

857
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 13: which is saying it's a financial instrument that funds decogonization

858
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 13: in this hard to abase sector. So as we are

859
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 13: trying to figure out and make them green there is

860
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 13: a way to recognize them actually now and there was

861
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 13: an announcement that was made between our parent company, First

862
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 13: Friend and British International Investment where we managed to mobilize

863
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 13: one hundred and fifty million dollars from the UK into

864
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 13: the continent, so demonstrating that the type of conversations, yes

865
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 13: we haven't agreed, but they are paraet us where we

866
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 13: can start to mobilize funding. So that is another opportunity

867
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 13: to where we demonstrated that this can be done.

868
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 3: It's fascinating, there's so much happening and in the meantime,

869
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: you know, the number of solar panels being produced primarily

870
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 3: in China is literally changing the world.

871
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 2: Correct, correct?

872
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 13: I think Channa has taken up this mental very aggressively

873
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 13: and from the whole village chin from the mining of

874
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 13: the minerals all the way to the manufacturing even locally

875
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 13: in South Africa as well. We have a lot of

876
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 13: renewable energy playings, so both in the private and the

877
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 13: public sector, but to all the continent. You standing to

878
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 13: see the continent embracing this new technology and the fact

879
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 13: that it's affordable.

880
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming in. Good to see it.

881
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 3: Sep On Sunday is the Finance and ESG Transactor at

882
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 3: R and B. Seventeen minutes after seven.

883
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 8: The Money Show Africa Business Focus.

884
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: It's nineteen minutes after seven Doctor Rutendo and Dingui is

885
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 3: here from Tribe Africa Advisory, author of the book Grumble

886
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 3: in the Jungle Reloaded our Houses. Rutendo, thanks for coming in.

887
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 3: Aubrey will be used to see later. It's always is

888
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 3: always steal you back from his show. So we've seen

889
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 3: obviously a lot of AI. A lot of people in

890
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 3: Africa are looking a to use AI to improve their

891
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 3: lives but also to make more money. A lot of

892
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 3: that AI is made by China. There's a bit of

893
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 3: a bit of caution being urged here.

894
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 14: Yeah, a bit of question. I mean, I mean China.

895
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 15: We know that it has got its advantages in terms

896
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 15: of building to scale, but obviously it's your responsibility as

897
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 15: a government or in industry to make sure that you

898
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 15: get the quality that's laying with that. In this specific report, Stephen,

899
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 15: it's deep Sek, which is the equivalent of chet ChiPT.

900
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 15: If you remember, earlier on in the year, Deep Sick

901
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 15: came on board and there was in the New York

902
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 15: stock exchange. There was habit that was created. Navidia lost

903
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 15: a but I think I was six hundred billion US

904
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,479
Speaker 15: dollars you share value. Just because of that threat, Deep

905
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 15: Sick is playing an active role in Africa. I think

906
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 15: if it does work the way it is says supposed

907
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 15: to work, Stephen, the cost of developing dipxic, according to

908
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 15: Deep Sic is about six million US dollars. That's the

909
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 15: amount of investment to make it clever and put in

910
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 15: Layman's team in terms compared to chet ChiPT, which is

911
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 15: one hundred million US dollars, so it's supposed to be

912
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 15: cost effective. There are invested significantly on the African market

913
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 15: where there's always been opportunity to scale and grow from

914
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 15: a technology perspective. But they're not the only ones besides

915
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,439
Speaker 15: Deep Seek, the A, the UAE or the Middle East

916
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 15: have invested also in terms of technology. And also we

917
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 15: know Casava in partnership with some of the US firms,

918
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 15: So a lot of investment happened on the continent, but

919
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 15: Deep Seak taking extra capitalizing that opportunity as well.

920
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so interesting to see how it's all going

921
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 3: to play out. No one really knows Kenya, they're looking

922
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 3: at investment driven growth for their small and medium enterprises.

923
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: I mean they have over seven million, seven million. That's

924
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 2: a lot of.

925
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 3: One person companies, people who are selling things.

926
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 2: They're doing a lot with that to.

927
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 14: Scale you even more steven Africa in itself.

928
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 15: I think according to to to estimates, there about forty

929
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 15: four million SMEs on the continent that contributes A plus

930
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,720
Speaker 15: a maners about forty percent of Africa's GDP. But coming

931
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 15: back to Kenya, Stephen Kenya realizes, I mean for any

932
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 15: SME to scale, it's a big number. But the big

933
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 15: challenge in Africa for SMEs to scale is two key things.

934
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 15: One is financing and the other's technology. We know from

935
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 15: a key perspective huge accomplishments with regards to technology we've

936
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 15: seen with them Pezza, but now they're focusing in terms

937
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 15: of how can they create that environment that can make

938
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 15: significant growth in terms of the economy, and so there's

939
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 15: a big focus on the seven point four million sms

940
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 15: that are there. One of the key things that they've

941
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 15: done Stephen as well, is that the government, because of

942
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 15: the cutbacks that have happened because of USA, the Angels,

943
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 15: the OLDA investment. They've realized that ninety percent of their

944
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 15: businesses are playing in the SME space. So it's a

945
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 15: huge population from a business perspective.

946
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 14: And one of the other.

947
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 15: Challenges that they have is that for a for an

948
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 15: SME to get the required support and financing and capabilities

949
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 15: to scale between one hundred thousand, two hundred million US

950
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 15: dollars the amount of money that is required and it's

951
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 15: not it's not a thing there reach. So the government

952
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 15: is sort of digging deep in terms of saying, how

953
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 15: can we facilitate this huge volume of businesses that have

954
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 15: got an impact on economy to go to the next level.

955
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 15: So that was an interesting point and I think it

956
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 15: just correlates across the continent'st.

957
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 3: Even it's also about the things that are put in

958
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 3: the way. You know, these are not insiders to the economy.

959
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: These are people hustling, and they hustle at.

960
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 15: The hussle very hard steven and and you know, if

961
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 15: you look at other First world countries, and I was

962
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 15: talking about Africa on average, it's the same thing with

963
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 15: king Aware about forty two percent of the continent's GDP

964
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,879
Speaker 15: relies on semes But when you look at first wolf

965
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 15: countries like the US, for example, it's only five percent,

966
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 15: so there's a healthier balance. But that why that five

967
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 15: percent carries quite a lot, So it's a lot of hustle.

968
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 15: The volumes are they're the numbers are there. The challenge,

969
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 15: Stephen is we need to get these guys to scale,

970
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 15: because we're not able to get our SMEs to scale

971
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 15: through financing to the right support. From a technology perspective,

972
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 15: it does take the country and the continent forward. So

973
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 15: the government of king has got a lot of work

974
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 15: to do, and we also know behind this, this is

975
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 15: the political dynamics of Kinga, which we've highlighted a lot

976
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 15: on the show. But we'll see how it goes in

977
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 15: but at the moment it's a primary focus for the

978
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 15: government in terms of scaling up these seven point four

979
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,919
Speaker 15: million businesses in the in the SME space in Kenya.

980
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 3: And then in Morocco the Dakla Port development. Obviously there

981
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 3: will be quite a lot of hope that that'll have

982
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 3: a big impact.

983
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 15: Dukla And you said it quite well, Steven. You sound

984
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 15: as if you're in Morocco there, and I think it's

985
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 15: all the but Moroccas you know, Stephen, is going to

986
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 15: be host the twenty twenty seven World Cup, so a

987
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 15: lot of money is going into infrastructure. But I think

988
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 15: the reason I liked the story, I mean, we came

989
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 15: out of the twenty ten Soccer World Cup and there's

990
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 15: a big question did we get return on investment? Dreaming

991
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 15: strategic decisions they've pumped in and this is the Moroccan

992
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 15: government about one point six billion US dollars into the

993
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 15: port there and the prime focus of this is obviously

994
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 15: the one to make it one of the leading ports,

995
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 15: so it's not just a port to facilitate infrastructure to

996
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,720
Speaker 15: build the stadiums. But obviously with their vicinity to Europe,

997
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 15: they've seen a lot of opportunity in terms of trade.

998
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 15: They're also seeing with the trade coming from Mali, Bikina, Faso,

999
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 15: so all those nize, all those Sahel regions. It's expected

1000
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 15: this investment will not only translate obviously into infrastructure growth,

1001
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 15: but between one thousand and eight hundred to twenty thousand

1002
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 15: jobs will be created in the ecosystem of things, so

1003
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:42,399
Speaker 15: that's a positive things.

1004
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 14: I think.

1005
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 15: Also another key point to highlight Steve is that the

1006
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 15: players that are involved with this is one of the

1007
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,720
Speaker 15: key players is a company called Ornix or are Nx,

1008
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 15: and it's a consortium between the USA, Spain and Germany.

1009
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 15: And there's another also consortium between Abu Dhabi and Spain

1010
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 15: that are all participating in some Again, I think it's positioned.

1011
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 15: It's quite itself quite well to be a big infrastructure

1012
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 15: player on the continent and the want of the biggest

1013
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 15: sports in Africa. I think Senegal is doing the same thing.

1014
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 15: They've got deeply world investing and Djibouti is done a lot.

1015
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 15: So it's good to get these stories of infrastructure because

1016
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 15: when you talk of the ACFTA, which was highlighted G

1017
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 15: twenty which I'm sure Stephen you're G twentyed out. All

1018
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 15: of this helps the continent within the right way in

1019
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 15: terms of the direction we want to go.

1020
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 3: And then African nations have joined a coalition of levying

1021
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 3: taxas on luxury air travel.

1022
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 15: Bear in mind and look the funny thing about this,

1023
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 15: it's the right decision, will it make the right impact.

1024
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 15: So there are the eighteen countries mostly from the global

1025
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 15: self that I said, guys, we want to penalize people

1026
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 15: with regards to luxury travel private jets. The countries that

1027
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 15: are in the theateen from Africa already was Djibouti, Nigeria,

1028
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 15: South Sudan, and the U S members are King of

1029
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 15: Benin and serially on the intention, absolutely positive. The reality

1030
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 15: is though, that collectively Africa contributes three percent of the

1031
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 15: cup of footprint in the world and the most the

1032
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 15: person the country alone that contributes the most is actually

1033
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:14,879
Speaker 15: the USA.

1034
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 14: So the question is, as much as.

1035
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 15: It's a noble idea, will it make it the reality

1036
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 15: It won't, but hopefully we'll lead the way and others

1037
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 15: will follow.

1038
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 14: But whether that happens or not, that would be another

1039
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:25,439
Speaker 14: thing to see.

1040
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 3: I'm happy to pay it for my private jet. And

1041
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 3: then this story about an emerald. It says he had

1042
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 3: three hundred kilograms, really three hundred kilograms and it was

1043
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 3: found by it was found.

1044
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 15: By the new president or the new leader of Madagascar

1045
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 15: as we know mad Gaska recently the data the I

1046
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,919
Speaker 15: think it was Angelina president Jelina, who was pushed out

1047
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 15: and one of the reasons where the young people complaining

1048
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 15: up a shortage of essentials, money for funding for public utilities,

1049
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 15: et cetera, et cetera. He walks into the new presidential

1050
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 15: place and he finds a three hundred kilogram and a

1051
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 15: piece of rock of emerald drug. It's valued at eighty

1052
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 15: dollars per gram. So to cut a long story short, Stephen,

1053
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 15: that's twenty four million US dollars that was left by

1054
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 15: the first president back in his cupboard doors, back in

1055
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 15: his cupboard. And why the former president just didn't put

1056
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 15: it in the back of his bucky and drive off,

1057
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 15: we don't know.

1058
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 14: But it's an interesting story.

1059
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 15: Apparently is going to be auctioned for the good of

1060
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 15: the country and twenty four plus or manners twenty four

1061
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 15: million dollars should be ejected to the fiscus. Whether that

1062
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 15: happens or not, that's another story. But it's an interesting

1063
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 15: story that emeralds in Madagascar in terms of this day detainment,

1064
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 15: all that's happening around that.

1065
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 3: What's that old Russian line meet the new boss saying

1066
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 3: as the old bus, isn't that what they say? Doctor

1067
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 3: doctorin and Tinky sagod to see you. Founding Director of

1068
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:55,919
Speaker 3: Tribe Africa Advisory Personal Finance with Warren Ingram twenty three

1069
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 3: minutes now to eight. Well, occasionally we go through period

1070
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 3: where there's a lot of good news and very occasionally

1071
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 3: we go through a period where there's a lot of

1072
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 3: good news, and Warren Ingram is live and in our

1073
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 3: studio in person. He's a certified financial planner at Galileo Capital.

1074
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 3: And here is Warren's wonderful to see you.

1075
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 16: Good evening, so good to be in studio in a

1076
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 16: nice kind of rainy job.

1077
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 3: It's wonderful you're taking refuge from the heat of the

1078
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 3: Western Cape. Got a jersey on and everything, just to

1079
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 3: rub it in. Okay, we're going through some good times.

1080
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 3: The question tonight is how do you capitalize on that?

1081
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 3: And I suppose it's fair to say that in some

1082
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 3: ways we're so used to kind of negative news, which

1083
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 3: is often what news is for various reasons, that it's

1084
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 3: quite strange to sort of think that, actually, some things

1085
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 3: are going very well.

1086
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 16: And I don't think we necessarily stop and tech stock

1087
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 16: of we've arrived here. Can we remind ourselves where we

1088
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 16: were and what we were not complaining about, but what

1089
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 16: we'll be worried about one, three, five, seven years ago.

1090
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 16: And I'm just thinking, you know, when lasted, you said

1091
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:03,439
Speaker 16: around the bry or the dinner table, complaining about load shedding. Yeah,

1092
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 16: we don't do it anymore. And you know, the unemployment

1093
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 16: rates is rioting, and you know the economy is not

1094
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 16: doing anything, and the country is being badly managed, et cetera,

1095
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 16: et cetera, and were ingrained to do that anyway, but

1096
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,439
Speaker 16: we should stop and just take a second to look

1097
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 16: where we are. And and for me, a couple of

1098
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 16: things happened. We gave it attention. We've given it actually

1099
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 16: attention on the show, but I'm not sure as a

1100
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 16: country we gave it enough attention. And so things like

1101
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 16: getting off the gray List. I mean, I've had so

1102
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 16: many people say to me, oh, we shouldn't have been

1103
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:36,919
Speaker 16: on it in the first place.

1104
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: Of course that's true. But we're off it.

1105
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 16: And we did it, not necessarily in record time, but

1106
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 16: actually one of the quickest turnarounds. And then you add

1107
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 16: to the fact that we're starting to balance the books

1108
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 16: as a country. You know, when you talk about an

1109
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 16: individual and you say, please stop spending more than you

1110
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 16: earn every month, Well, we were doing that very successfully

1111
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 16: as a country. We were spending a lot more than

1112
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 16: we were earning. We actually now I spend less than

1113
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 16: the earning when you ignore the interest cost. When you

1114
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 16: add the interest cost, that it's not such a pretty picture,

1115
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 16: but that that's called a primary surplace. We're making a

1116
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 16: primary surplace again. So it's now the second time, and

1117
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 16: I think we're on track to do it for the

1118
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 16: third time. Then we get to this blessed budget and firstly,

1119
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 16: the budget goes through without a fight.

1120
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 2: It happened.

1121
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 16: If there was fighting, you and I didn't hear about it.

1122
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 16: It wasn't splashed all over the news. Maybe you heard

1123
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 16: about it. I didn't hear about it. Seems to be

1124
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 16: largely a consensus like that that actually our government is

1125
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 16: pulling in a direction, and it's what I would call

1126
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 16: a responsible direction. Again, we're spending lesson we're earning, we're

1127
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 16: allocating money correctly. More so as time goes on and

1128
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,959
Speaker 16: we add into something into that budget. Of by the way,

1129
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 16: we actually think this three percent inflation target is a

1130
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 16: good thing, almost like a buyer buy thing. You know,

1131
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 16: there was a bit of a spat and now there's not.

1132
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 16: Then we get a standard. I think it's standard for saying, oh,

1133
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 16: we think you're doing a really good job. Actually we're

1134
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 16: going to upgrade you. So we're we're stall below junk,

1135
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 16: but we're going to upgrade you, and we think that

1136
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 16: the momentum for that upgrade is positive. In other words,

1137
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 16: there is room for more upgrades in the very near future.

1138
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 16: All of this has happened in a reasonably short space

1139
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 16: of time. All of it is incredibly positive.

1140
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 3: It's also all about momentum, right, It's not about the numbers,

1141
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 3: it's about the trend, the direction that you're moving in.

1142
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think I couldn't remember if I mentioned about

1143
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 16: un employment. Unemployment is slightly less bad. Yeah, another positive thing.

1144
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 16: So what we've got now is that that kind of

1145
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 16: stone that's rolling down the hill, all that's happened is

1146
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 16: it's fractionally moved. It's got momentum. And what we need

1147
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 16: to know is momentum has worked against us for a

1148
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 16: very long period of time, almost kind of two thousand

1149
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 16: and seven was the last time we had really good

1150
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 16: economic news. Now we're having it again, and if you

1151
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 16: just keep doing the right things, that momentum starts to build.

1152
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 16: And I think that that's where we are now. And

1153
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 16: it's not just you and I are looking at this

1154
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 16: and going, oh, that's okay. The rest of the world

1155
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 16: looks at that and go mineratings agencies, they're not the

1156
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 16: most exciting people right Like they're not. They're looking at

1157
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 16: the positive outcome, they're looking at what could go wrong,

1158
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 16: and they're saying we're doing things well, things are going well,

1159
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 16: and should carry on. That for me is very good news.

1160
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 3: There's a big issue around the rand and the new

1161
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 3: inflation target of three percent. Why is that so important?

1162
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 3: Because it keeps the rand at a certain level and

1163
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 3: basically keeps it stronger.

1164
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 16: It does so, just to be clear, like, the intent

1165
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 16: is not to manage the Rand. The intent is the

1166
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 16: country and the people that manage the books of our countries,

1167
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 16: so the Reserve Bank and our treasure we are saying,

1168
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 16: we are showing the world that we are fiscally disciplined,

1169
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 16: that we are actually restrained in our spending, and that

1170
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 16: we can control inflation if we do that. One of

1171
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 16: the things that causes the rand to get weaker against

1172
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 16: the dollar, for example, is if our inflation rate has

1173
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 16: been six percent for a long period of time and

1174
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,479
Speaker 16: theirs has been two percent for a long period of time,

1175
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 16: that difference, that that four percent difference will be the

1176
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:04,439
Speaker 16: amount that the Rand will weaken against the dollar. When

1177
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 16: you ignore all the politics and all the other things

1178
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 16: that could go wrong. That would be a guarantee. So

1179
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 16: if we get to three percent and they seem to

1180
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 16: be struggling to break three percent, that means we both

1181
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 16: at three percent. That's one thing that keeps the rand

1182
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 16: at a at a level to the dollar. We'll still

1183
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 16: weaken because we're a small economy. Politics are not great

1184
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 16: and all those things that a strong rand means we

1185
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 16: don't import inflation with oil, with food, and that's a

1186
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 16: big issue. So we import a lot of petrol, we

1187
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 16: don't have our own, and we import a lot of food. Surprisingly,

1188
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 16: and those things cause inflation. So if you're paying in

1189
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 16: dollars for those things and the rand is now stable

1190
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 16: against the dollar, you don't have as much inflation.

1191
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 2: Again, positive news.

1192
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 3: Okay, it's eighteen minutes now to eighth the time you

1193
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 3: know the number O double one double A three seven

1194
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 3: O two two one four four six O five six

1195
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 3: seven and voice notes on seven to two seven oh

1196
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 3: two one seven O two your questions for Warren Ingram tonight.

1197
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 3: That's all the good news that's happening. How you make

1198
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 3: money from it? And the first thing, I just want

1199
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 3: to check this warrant because I know you'll know the answer.

1200
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 2: We are now going.

1201
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,919
Speaker 3: To have lower inflation, which I presume means that over time.

1202
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 3: So if we say over the next twenty years we

1203
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 3: should have lower interest rates, which I'm hoping means that

1204
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 3: I would pay a lot less interest on a bond

1205
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 3: that I started now than I one then I started

1206
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 3: twenty years ago.

1207
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1208
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 16: So the reason we have high interest rates right now

1209
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 16: is it's the main tool and almost the only tool

1210
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 16: that the Reserve Bank has to control inflation. If inflation

1211
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 16: is under control, that means the Reserve Bank can start

1212
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 16: to cut interest rates. If they cut interest rates, that

1213
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 16: means that you and I pay less on our debts.

1214
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 16: It also means the whole country pays less on its dates.

1215
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,439
Speaker 16: Because we as a country we issue a government bond,

1216
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 16: we have to be attractive to everybody South African and

1217
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 16: global investors to offer them a good interest rate above inflation.

1218
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,479
Speaker 16: So if our inflation rate is low, and that means

1219
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 16: instead of issuing a bond at eleven percent, we might

1220
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 16: issue it at eight percent, still a very attractive rate

1221
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 16: for investors above inflation. But you and I are spending

1222
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 16: less on debt, which means hopefully that we pay our

1223
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 16: debts down, and that means that we've got more money

1224
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 16: to spend on the economy. In the economy, so i'm

1225
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 16: you know, building houses, all of those things. Low interest

1226
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 16: rates are extremely positive for the property market for every

1227
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 16: individual who owns a property or wants to own a property.

1228
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 16: Also for unfortunately things like extra spending. So now people

1229
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 16: will spend more on the things that they don't really need.

1230
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 16: But it's it's actually positive for the economy if we're

1231
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 16: not spending it on you know, useless things, so we

1232
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 16: can actually create a positive economic spiral that causes better unemployment.

1233
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 2: You get the picture.

1234
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 3: Okay, So then all of these things mean that there

1235
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 3: would be quite a lot of positive news over the

1236
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 3: long term, because this is where the long term matters.

1237
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 3: But it's good news for businesses too if they want

1238
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 3: to borrow money to expand.

1239
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 16: Yeah, so when you're paying you know, ten or eleven

1240
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 16: percent a year to grow your factory or to build

1241
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 16: a new building, I mean ten or eleven percent a year,

1242
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 16: most businesses would be thrilled to grow the whole business

1243
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 16: by let's say fifteen percent year. When you're giving away

1244
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 16: most of that just an interest, it just doesn't create

1245
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 16: scope to really invest properly. But if you're borrowing at

1246
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,439
Speaker 16: eight percent, it creates more scope to actually grow and grow,

1247
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 16: and that's what we want. We want businesses to grow

1248
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 16: so they employ more people. So lower interest rates caused

1249
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 16: by controlled inflation have a huge economic impact, but not tomorrow.

1250
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 16: So it's something that sustainably incrementally causes the tie to turn.

1251
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 3: You spoke about ratings agencies. Now, presumably they see this

1252
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 3: if they then give us another And going into this

1253
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 3: with S and P Global, they gave us the upgrade.

1254
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 3: The others haven't yet, but there was a lot of speculation.

1255
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 3: They didn't give us one. Now they will give us

1256
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 3: one next year. So they gave us one. Now that

1257
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily mean they'll give us another one next year,

1258
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 3: but the others will sit up and take notice of that.

1259
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 3: What happens then if they all follow and we start

1260
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 3: slowly getting rated up.

1261
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 16: Let's say, which is not unrealistic. I'm not saying we'll

1262
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 16: jump from three levels or two levels below junk to

1263
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 16: immediately in fairly LAWI And now we're at investment grade.

1264
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 16: But that path to getting to investment grade is much

1265
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 16: shorter now than it was in the past. If we

1266
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 16: get to investment grade. That means we get onto global

1267
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 16: bond market induceries, we get onto global stock market induceries again,

1268
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:19,280
Speaker 16: et cetera, et cetera. So now we start to attract

1269
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:21,919
Speaker 16: money simply because of momentum. Back to the M word again,

1270
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 16: momentum is in our favor here, so we get onto

1271
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 16: a whole lot of radars of the bond fund managers

1272
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 16: as well, and just global investors would be looking at

1273
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 16: this and saying, Okay, your investment grade. So if I'm

1274
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 16: a global manager and I've got to get allocate money

1275
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 16: to places, I don't really get fired when I allocate

1276
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 16: money to an investment grade country, allocate money to a

1277
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 16: junk status country and it doesn't go well, I get fired.

1278
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 16: So your risk appetite improves when you're buying investment grade countries.

1279
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 16: There's a lot of human behavior behind this. And then

1280
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 16: global businesses would be saying, okay, we can build factories there,

1281
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 16: we can build our operations down there as well. So

1282
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 16: investment great for us is a huge thing, Like that's

1283
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:04,919
Speaker 16: the thing we're really aiming for.

1284
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean, I remember the terrible headlines South Africa

1285
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 3: now junk you know when it all happened in twenty

1286
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 3: seventeen and twenty fifteen in December and all of that.

1287
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,880
Speaker 3: All of this, then if we get some economic growth,

1288
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:20,559
Speaker 3: it starts to spiral what happens then, I mean that

1289
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 3: obviously does things for the JC which is having a

1290
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 3: record time, even though a lot of the stocks that

1291
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 3: are doing very well are kind of earning money in

1292
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 3: dollars and are related to gold.

1293
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:34,919
Speaker 16: Yeah, so let's talk about about the growth. We're everybody's

1294
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,640
Speaker 16: kind of forecasting at the country generates point nine or

1295
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,719
Speaker 16: one point one percent economic growth, they call it GDP growth.

1296
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:43,560
Speaker 2: If we get something slightly.

1297
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:46,719
Speaker 16: Faster than that, where the good news does compound slightly,

1298
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 16: that means we start to absorb more and more people

1299
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 16: who are unemployed into the employment sector. Our population growth

1300
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 16: is not much more than one or two percent. So

1301
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 16: if you're actually absorbing people into the employment where you're

1302
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 16: growing employment faster, then your population is growing. All of

1303
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 16: a sudden, the whole country gets a little bit richer

1304
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 16: per person. So that's GDP per capital. That's the jargon

1305
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 16: that is the.

1306
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,759
Speaker 2: Golden like the holy grail of everything.

1307
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:12,840
Speaker 16: You want to get to that point where you start

1308
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 16: to make everybody feel a bit richer every day and

1309
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 16: that they see hope. What we know is if you

1310
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 16: have hope or all of a sudden, you start to

1311
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 16: invest better, and you do look at the long term.

1312
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 16: You do build a house, you do build a business,

1313
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 16: you do educate your kids in the country, so you

1314
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,760
Speaker 16: break that really bad spiral that we might be coming

1315
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 16: out of.

1316
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 3: Now, and that will also partly come over time because

1317
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 3: of a lower inflation target, because they're interest rates in

1318
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 3: the end will be lower.

1319
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 16: Yeah, I mean I didn't appreciate. I had to spend

1320
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 16: some time with bond managers to understand that this inflation target,

1321
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 16: almost like the announcement of it on its own wasn't something.

1322
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:51,719
Speaker 16: But now that Treasury is agreeing and Reserve bankor agreeing,

1323
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 16: and actually that people see we're sticking to it in

1324
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 16: our budgets in the way we're doing things, means that

1325
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 16: immediately almost the very next day when we issue new

1326
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 16: bonds or refinancing as a country, we're paying less interest already,

1327
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 16: so it had a very positive impact. We are not

1328
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 16: going to spend as much on interest as we have

1329
01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 16: in the past, which means we can pare down our

1330
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 16: debt faster, which hopefully means we can invest as a

1331
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,639
Speaker 16: country in more infrastructure, the things that create jobs.

1332
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 3: Speaking to Warren Ingram Tonight, a certified financial planner at

1333
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 3: Galileo Capital, there's a question as well, and it's asked,

1334
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:23,640
Speaker 3: and it says Steve. When I'm changing jobs in the

1335
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:25,799
Speaker 3: next month, so I have some money in my provident fund,

1336
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 3: I can draw a chunk of it as a resignation benefit.

1337
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 3: I have some credit card debt that I would like

1338
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 3: to settle. Should I use my provident fund money to

1339
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 3: settle the status from Tony Toney, We'll have an answer

1340
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 3: for you in just the moment.

1341
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 10: The Money Shows Female Crotis is brought to you by

1342
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 10: Apsir CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters series

1343
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 10: podcast perhaps as an authorized FSP and registered.

1344
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 2: Credit provider for The Money Show Personal Finance with Warren Ingram.

1345
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 3: Well your questions for Warren Ingram Tonight, John, I do

1346
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 3: see your core will be with you in just a moment.

1347
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 3: First war on Tony's asking, I'm changing jobs, have some

1348
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 3: money in my provident fund. I can draw a trunk

1349
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 3: of it as a resignation benefit. To have some credit

1350
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 3: card debt, should I use my provident fund money to

1351
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 3: settle the debt.

1352
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,719
Speaker 16: I mean, I really don't like that as an option.

1353
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 16: I think you know you do that when you've just

1354
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,919
Speaker 16: run out of all other runways. So when you're canceling

1355
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 16: your or taking money out of your provident fund, you're

1356
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,559
Speaker 16: paying big taxes on that. So you're already going backwards

1357
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:25,719
Speaker 16: and those taxes are probably higher than what the interest

1358
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:27,679
Speaker 16: is that you'd pay. And all the growth that would

1359
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 16: have been in your provident fund growing tax free, now

1360
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,599
Speaker 16: you lose that, So you lose the tax ree growth

1361
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 16: and you pay a lump some tax. So I think

1362
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 16: unless you're kind of you're going to lose all your

1363
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 16: assets because you're going to be foreclosed or something. They're

1364
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:42,680
Speaker 16: going to bankrupt you at the credit card company, if

1365
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 16: you can find another way, please do.

1366
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 3: That, okay, So just keep the money in the provident fund, Tony.

1367
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 3: Over the longer term, it'll be worthwhile, all right, John

1368
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 3: on the line from Craig hall Park, John, Good evening.

1369
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 3: What's your question?

1370
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 2: Go for it?

1371
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 17: Yeah, good evening. I've heard all of the advantages of

1372
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 17: the lower interest rate. Why what is the disadvantage or

1373
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 17: why don't they sif the inflation target as zero.

1374
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 2: It's a great question. Eh, at zero, thank you? All right,

1375
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 2: Thanks John, he's going to listen on the radio.

1376
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:18,679
Speaker 16: Worry now, John, Your example is probably Japan actually, because

1377
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 16: you do want a little bit of inflation, because it's

1378
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 16: a sign of a growing economy. When you have zero inflation,

1379
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 16: you open the option for deflation, where for example, things

1380
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 16: constantly get cheaper. So that sounds like an amazing thing.

1381
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 16: But if things are getting cheaper, it means companies are

1382
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 16: making less money. It means they've got less money to

1383
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 16: pay salaries, they've got less money to invest in the country,

1384
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 16: the company, everything goes south. So you actually want a

1385
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 16: little bit of inflation, but it needs to be under control,

1386
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 16: and it needs to be reasonably small and reasonably stable.

1387
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 16: Then all of a sudden you get this positive spiral.

1388
01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 16: But at zero inflation rate, I know it sounds good

1389
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 16: for most of us who don't want our food prices

1390
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 16: to get higher, But actually you want to sign of growth.

1391
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 16: You want thing to get better and bigger. And I'm

1392
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 16: talking about economics now, and so a little bit of

1393
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 16: inflation is kind of your perfect point two or three

1394
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 16: percent is ideal. That's what most of the good developed

1395
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 16: countries have you.

1396
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 3: Actually have deflation in South Africa in some goods, so

1397
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 3: some appliances bicycles for example, you know nice bicycles if

1398
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 3: you buy, if you buy them now, they're cheaper than

1399
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 3: they were ten years ago. But that also means that

1400
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:27,600
Speaker 3: if for example, you know a bicycle is going to

1401
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 3: be cheaper next year, you're not going to buy it now,

1402
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 3: You're going to buy it next year, which means as

1403
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 3: they's economic activity.

1404
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 16: And imagine that on a very large scale where you're

1405
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:36,599
Speaker 16: a business that is, well, we need to buy one

1406
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:41,799
Speaker 16: hundred million rounds with the machines if we just wait, yeah, stalls.

1407
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 3: The other thing that I suppose we need to just

1408
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:46,400
Speaker 3: talk about is that there is a short term pain

1409
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 3: to a lower inflation target because the interest rates will

1410
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 3: be slightly higher for slightly longer.

1411
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1412
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,719
Speaker 16: And so that is like we're taking our mates, and

1413
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 16: we have been taking our mates in anyway, we're taking

1414
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 16: our mates and now, but what the hope is one

1415
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:03,640
Speaker 16: or two or three years from now. We're seeing a

1416
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 16: very positive picture. So it does send again momentum and

1417
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 16: a signal. It sends an incredibly good signal, but we

1418
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 16: need to let it unfold.

1419
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 3: Okay, we do need with all of this good news,

1420
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 3: and let's just go back to that main theme, you

1421
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 3: do need to maintain.

1422
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 2: A balance, right, Yeah, I kind of want to highlight

1423
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 2: you people.

1424
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 16: We've heard these comments out there, like, you know, a

1425
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 16: couple of years ago, cash out all of your South

1426
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 16: African stuff, send everything overseas. So that was the very

1427
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 16: opposite of the conversation we're having today. And if you

1428
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 16: think about that, the JC in dollar terms, has been

1429
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 16: one of the very best stock markets in the world,

1430
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 16: and so that pain of people who've sent all their

1431
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 16: money out there suffering now, and equally they sent it

1432
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 16: out probably at nineteen to the dollar and we're sitting

1433
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:45,719
Speaker 16: at seventeen something to the dollar.

1434
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 2: That's all bad news.

1435
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:49,759
Speaker 16: So I mean, I think I'm highlighting this to say

1436
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 16: you always need to I know you always tease me

1437
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 16: about diversification, but this is it, right, We're living it now.

1438
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 16: We're seeing the benefit of having money in South Africa

1439
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 16: and overseas. So I'm not saying sell all your overseas investments,

1440
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 16: bring everything back to South Africa back. If you've been

1441
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,720
Speaker 16: underinvested in essay and you need to get your balance right,

1442
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 16: think about that. That actually interstrates are coming down. In

1443
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 16: South Africa, economy is still going to grow. The JAS

1444
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 16: He's still going to do well outside of just a

1445
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 16: dollar earning commodities businesses. There is scope for growth. So

1446
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 16: make sure that balance is right because it can be

1447
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:23,599
Speaker 16: a very profitable decision for the next five or so years.

1448
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,599
Speaker 16: And so that's all we can kind of look at

1449
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 16: at the moment. And if that positive spiral carries on,

1450
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 16: who knows. So not saying bring everything back to South Africa. Equally,

1451
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:34,840
Speaker 16: I never said to end everything out, and I think

1452
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 16: we've got a macture. We use this as an opportunity

1453
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 16: to get that balance.

1454
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 3: So, I mean, this could be a moment if you

1455
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 3: have taken everything out you want to get back in

1456
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 3: kind of now, not all of it obviously, but quite

1457
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:47,920
Speaker 3: a lot of it, some of it. And you also

1458
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,560
Speaker 3: want to be able to say you also want to

1459
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 3: sort of know exactly well, it's complicated thing, but you

1460
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 3: don't know what's going to happen, but you do need

1461
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 3: to take cognizance of the change in momentum.

1462
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,759
Speaker 16: Yeah, and understand that that's going to impact, for example,

1463
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 16: the bond market, it's going to impact the property market.

1464
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:05,719
Speaker 16: We all know like Joebig has had a very tough

1465
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 16: time from a property point of view. I'm I'm not

1466
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 16: predicting that it's now just turned and everything's going to

1467
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 16: be better, but there is there are early signs. And

1468
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:15,439
Speaker 16: if the momentum is positive and you were sitting on

1469
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 16: the sideline saying I need to buy and Joe Big,

1470
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:19,760
Speaker 16: I need to buy the family home, think about it now.

1471
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 16: Get that balance of your assets correct, as you say,

1472
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:23,719
Speaker 16: bring in if you need to bring in some money

1473
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,599
Speaker 16: because you're out of balance, get that right. Equally, don't

1474
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:28,760
Speaker 16: stop sending money out if you're a bit low on

1475
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 16: your overseas side just because things are going okay at

1476
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 16: the moment. We don't know what's going to happen in

1477
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:35,680
Speaker 16: three years time. We don't have that crystal ball. But

1478
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 16: we need to be ready to benefit from all sides

1479
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 16: of the story I've had.

1480
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 3: I've had people tell me that Joebig's off the bottom

1481
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 3: for the last year, which very funny. There's also a

1482
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 3: sense of a mood. Right if things start to look

1483
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:54,599
Speaker 3: good and and government is sending quite a big signal

1484
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:57,679
Speaker 3: with an inflation target with other things, that also means

1485
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:00,360
Speaker 3: people invest, and that also means that we get a

1486
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:03,599
Speaker 3: bit more encouraged to keep some money here, to put

1487
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 3: more money in things like that, and that sentiment, and

1488
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:08,400
Speaker 3: Adrian gorspoke a lot about it. That sentiment in the

1489
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 3: economy is really important.

1490
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 16: Yeah, it's interesting you talk about Adrian Gorser. I mean,

1491
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 16: he's been one of the people beating the positive drum

1492
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 16: for a while, and I think because he was positive

1493
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 16: for so long, maybe he kind of became muted by

1494
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 16: people saying, oh, you always said that you're always positive.

1495
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:22,759
Speaker 16: But we're hearing more and more positive voices from people

1496
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 16: that maybe weren't so positive in the past. So positive

1497
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:28,760
Speaker 16: sentiment again, it's a momentum thing. You get people to

1498
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 16: look at the future and say, actually, South Africa as

1499
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 16: a future, that's important.

1500
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:36,120
Speaker 3: Warren Ingram, it's great to see you as a refugee

1501
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 3: from the heat in the West and Cape. I already

1502
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 3: do appreciate it. And such an interesting topic actually, because

1503
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,040
Speaker 3: there really is quite a lot of good news around

1504
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 3: at the moment. You need to make the best of it,

1505
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 3: particularly when you're investing.

1506
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 10: The money shows. Feveral Critis is brought to you by

1507
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:55,599
Speaker 10: absces CIB proud host of the Africa Impact Matters series

1508
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 10: podcast perhaps and authorized the FSP and registered credit provider.

1509
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 3: Well, it does look like US markets are finally turning positive,

1510
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 3: that a little bit of a rocky start. The Dow

1511
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:09,759
Speaker 3: Jones is up one point two two percent, the Naizek

1512
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:11,640
Speaker 3: is up point four to six, the S and P

1513
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:14,000
Speaker 3: five hundred is up point seven six Do things seem

1514
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 3: to be driving that one is the kind of slight

1515
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:18,599
Speaker 3: return to AI stocks, if I can call it that.

1516
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 3: The other and again once again, in the States, it's

1517
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 3: all about this is will there be another interest rate

1518
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 3: cut in December or not? In all of that becomes

1519
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,679
Speaker 3: incredibly political as well in the United States, and in fact,

1520
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,600
Speaker 3: a case against one of the Federal Reserve members of

1521
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 3: the committee, Janet Love, was thrown out Janet Cook, excuse me,

1522
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 3: was thrown out yesterday by the judge who said that

1523
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:45,600
Speaker 3: the district attorney had not been appointed properly, and it

1524
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 3: was obviously been appointed by the Trump administration simply to

1525
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 3: sort of serve those interests. So lots of developments in

1526
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 3: the United States will be back tomorrow, good evening.

1527
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 2: It's eight o'clock