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Speaker 1: You with Cape Talk listens papouton on lunch time to

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Speaker 1: talk food, and today we want to tip you off

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Speaker 1: about a new cookbook which has just hit the shelves

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Speaker 1: celebrating South African Indian cooking. It's called Nokia The Journey,

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Speaker 1: and it's the second cookbook from writer Nakia Mayati's previous book,

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Speaker 1: the beginning was very much rooted in recipes of her childhood.

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Speaker 1: This time she brings them more. I'm going to use

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Speaker 1: the word contemplative gaze to the kitchen because this is

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Speaker 1: really a book that invites us to slow down, to

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Speaker 1: take time to think about what we're eating, to generally

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Speaker 1: be a little bit more introspective about the blessings of

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Speaker 1: food on a table and people to share it with,

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Speaker 1: and to think about how we show up at that

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Speaker 1: table and what we pour of ourselves into the food

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Speaker 1: that we serve. It's a great pleasure to have Nokia

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Speaker 1: with us on the line to tell us more about

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Speaker 1: her food journey and about the new book. And welcome

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Speaker 1: to Cape Talk and love you to have you with

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Speaker 1: us this afternoon.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I hope you are experiencing just

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Speaker 2: as beautiful as we are in Johanna's birth.

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Speaker 1: Today we are feeling somewhat like a piece of steak

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Speaker 1: that's been put under a high degree grill in the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: Na Kiir. The contemporature is rapidly reaching the thirties and

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Speaker 1: going higher, so we kind of feel what it's like

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Speaker 1: to be boiled, I think is the phrase I would use.

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Speaker 1: But listen, before we talk about the new book, the

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Speaker 1: journey and what this book reflects, I think we need

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Speaker 1: to start a little bit further back because your initial

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Speaker 1: journey into the food publishing space is not one that

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Speaker 1: was on a very direct path. Reading the beginning of

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Speaker 1: this book and your introduction reminded you me that you

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Speaker 1: had another career entirely you weren't finding it entirely fulfilled,

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Speaker 1: and you really found a new sense of purpose in

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Speaker 1: sharing your love of cooking with a wider audience. What

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Speaker 1: do you remind us how that all started.

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Speaker 2: I was working in market research for many years, and

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Speaker 2: at that time I love to give creativity that it

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Speaker 2: allowed me. It also allowed me quite a lot of

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Speaker 2: freedom in my workspace. How about I just started feeling

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Speaker 2: like I needed a fashion project. I started, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was at the onset of sort of food blogs

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Speaker 2: in South Africa and at the time, I was one

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Speaker 2: of I would say, one of the first members on

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Speaker 2: a food blog called food twenty four in South Africa,

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Speaker 2: and I started just posting pictures, you know, just taken

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Speaker 2: on a digital camera with no editing, so there was

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Speaker 2: no editing software available at that stage. And we're talking

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Speaker 2: almost seventeen eighteen years ago. And at the time I

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Speaker 2: started forming this community, my sister in law started doing

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Speaker 2: website design and she said to me, come, let's put

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Speaker 2: it on a website. Right, I don't know how to

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Speaker 2: do this, so let's just figure it out and put

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Speaker 2: it on a website. And because I already started gaining

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Speaker 2: an audience on my food blog or the platform that

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Speaker 2: I was on, it was really easy to kind of

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Speaker 2: move them across into my official website space. And at

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Speaker 2: the time I didn't really know what I was doing.

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Speaker 2: I was I was sharing food that I could for

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Speaker 2: my husband. I was sharing little events that I would do,

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Speaker 2: you know, just beautiful table skates. But I didn't realize

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Speaker 2: that there was just something more outside of that, and

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Speaker 2: it was community building and I started gaining a following,

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Speaker 2: you know, the relationships became so much more personal. And

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Speaker 2: you know, at that stage, there was no such thing

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Speaker 2: as brand partnerships or brand deals. We were just sharing

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Speaker 2: for the love of sharing and following that. Instagram then

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Speaker 2: came around and my readers encouraged me, you know, start

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Speaker 2: you know, joining Instagram, start posting your recipes and stuff there.

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Speaker 2: And it was just almost a natural transgression, just moving

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Speaker 2: into that social media space. And I suppose that's actually

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Speaker 2: what catapulted the first book. The beginning. It was my

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Speaker 2: community saying, we're tired of looking for recipes, We're tired

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Speaker 2: of going onto your website. Give us something, give us something,

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Speaker 2: and I did.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now let's talk about the transition from that book

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Speaker 1: to this new one, because there is very much a

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Speaker 1: sense of of you sort of taking stock and of

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Speaker 1: choosing to be I don't know if more intentional is

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Speaker 1: the right phrase, as not to say that the previous

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Speaker 1: book wasn't intentional, but the previous book was sort of

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Speaker 1: HARKing back to the childhood recipes that had meant something

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Speaker 1: to you and informed the kind of a cook you became.

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Speaker 1: This book feels a little bit more like you on

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Speaker 1: the page and your way of approaching and adapting those

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Speaker 1: recipes for your readership, and for a diverse readership at that,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily only for a South African Indian cook, but

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Speaker 1: for those who might want to experiment with those flavors

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Speaker 1: even if they're not from that cultural background. How would

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Speaker 1: you describe the sort of the vision you had in

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Speaker 1: creating the new book, The Journey?

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Speaker 2: So, I think in order to understand where the placement

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Speaker 2: of the Journey is in my life, and I think

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Speaker 2: we need to go back to the beginning, you know,

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Speaker 2: figuratively and literally. The Beginning was definitely something that I

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Speaker 2: wanted to put out to kick start. As you know,

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Speaker 2: I do have a I do have a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a dream of creating three books in the series,

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Speaker 2: and I had that in tension when I created the Beginning.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to start number one my storytelling of who

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Speaker 2: I am. And I also wanted people that had never

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Speaker 2: been exposed to Indian food before to start learning or

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Speaker 2: playing with understanding, not saying, but more understanding what spies means.

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Speaker 2: And for me, if spies doesn't necessarily mean heat, spies

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Speaker 2: means learning how to take your ingredients and create meaningful,

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Speaker 2: intentional visuens with it. And when I had created the Beginning,

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Speaker 2: or when I had written the Beginning. I was intentional

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Speaker 2: in a sense where I wanted food for my childhood

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Speaker 2: to reflect. But I was kind of food that was

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Speaker 2: easy for people who had never been exposed to cooking

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Speaker 2: Indian food before to start learning and start almost getting

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Speaker 2: onto that journey with me. After the Beginning, and this

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Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty, I immediately knew that I would

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do a second book. I began writing

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Speaker 2: The Journey almost I think three years ago, but I

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Speaker 2: didn't you know, you need a lot of grit, you

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Speaker 2: need perseverance, and you really need to come out of yourself,

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Speaker 2: and you know it's not for the week. I always

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Speaker 2: say that writing the book is not for the week.

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Speaker 2: And in my book I expressed, you know, I watched

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Speaker 2: the seasons change, and I always wrote in the corner

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Speaker 2: of my bedroom, very sort of haphazardly, on a chair

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Speaker 2: that was placed in my bedroom, with the laptop on

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Speaker 2: my lap. And I kept on going to the seasons,

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Speaker 2: and I kept on going back and removing stuff and

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Speaker 2: adding stuff in until I was approached by Penguin Random House,

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Speaker 2: and then I realized, Okay, I've really got to get

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Speaker 2: myself in order, and I've really got to just, you know,

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Speaker 2: hone in on what is the story that I want

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Speaker 2: to tell here. And just like the beginning, it was,

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Speaker 2: you know, the onset of how I cooked, or how

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Speaker 2: I learned how to cook from watching my mom for example.

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Speaker 2: I mean I sat on the counter in my mom's

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Speaker 2: kitchen cooking nothing. Until my twenties. I refused to cook

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Speaker 2: our It was never an interest of mine to be

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Speaker 2: in the case. And after I got married, I really

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Speaker 2: needed to dig deep and whatho we eat? You know,

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Speaker 2: we need food on our table. I need to figure

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Speaker 2: this out. And there's so many other people in the

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Speaker 2: same predicament, especially people of our culture where we come

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Speaker 2: from homes where we are constantly surrounded by food, and

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Speaker 2: there's always somebody cooking, and there's always a family gathering,

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Speaker 2: whether it's Ramadan, whether it's eed, whether it's the Vali.

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Speaker 2: And I really needed to say, I am going to

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Speaker 2: put a book out there for people just like me

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Speaker 2: who had no idea where to begin cooking. And that

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Speaker 2: really was the premise of what the beginning was. The

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Speaker 2: journey was just a very natural progression of you've learned

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Speaker 2: how to do all of this. Come along with me now.

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Speaker 2: I want to show you what I've learned over the

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Speaker 2: past few years, and that's actually where we are at now.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now, just for anybody coming in midway to this conversation.

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Speaker 1: The guest joining me on the line, Lakiya Maayatu, is

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Speaker 1: the author of her original twenty twenty cookbook Nakia The

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Speaker 1: Beginning and the second Edition, which has just hit the shelves,

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Speaker 1: published by Penguin Random House. The Journey honoring Indian culinary

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Speaker 1: traditions it is. I mean, let's talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the recipes, Naikia. You know, there are some that you

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Speaker 1: expect to see. Everybody knows. If they think of Indian food,

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Speaker 1: they think of a butter chicken curry, they think of

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Speaker 1: a chicken ticker, they think of a lambrogan josh, they

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Speaker 1: think of nan breads, et cetera. But there are also

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Speaker 1: some very playful takes on them that you know, your

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Speaker 1: way of making those dishes your own or in some

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Speaker 1: cases of literally walking us through step by step. This

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Speaker 1: is the way I do it. But you could also,

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Speaker 1: for example, bring an air fryer in here, or do

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Speaker 1: the chicken on the bride to get the chargirl you

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Speaker 1: want for the ticker for example, very handy sort of

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Speaker 1: tips on adapting the recipes for your own kitchen. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I always am, always flummixed by how you make the

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Speaker 1: choices of what goes into a book and what stays

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Speaker 1: on the cutting room for Nikia, Did you go for

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Speaker 1: the recipes that have been most sort of asked for

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Speaker 1: and liked on your social media pages? Did you go

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Speaker 1: for the ones that you just have found the most

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Speaker 1: successful in your home cooking? What guide your decision making

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Speaker 1: around what to put in.

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Speaker 2: The people who eat my food? It's just as plain

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Speaker 2: as simple as that there is a lamb mint cottage

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Speaker 2: pie that my daughter loves, and there's a butter of

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Speaker 2: chicken that my twins loves. And there's a recipe that

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Speaker 2: reminds me of a very close family friend who's now late,

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Speaker 2: who shared in our kitchen and taught my children and

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Speaker 2: I'm Roccan cuisine, for example, and there's a recipe from

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Speaker 2: that he's taught me in there. So I'm very very

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Speaker 2: guided by the relationships in my life, and that does

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Speaker 2: not mean that it doesn't extend to my online community.

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Speaker 2: You know, I know the interest, I know how much

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Speaker 2: my community loves chicken tika for example, or you know,

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Speaker 2: making a really good button on, and you know some

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Speaker 2: of the meties that we eat at celebrations. But at

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Speaker 2: the heart and onset of everything that I do, I'm

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Speaker 2: extremely mindful, you know, not necessarily just from the book

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Speaker 2: or the content that I post online on my Instagram,

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Speaker 2: just in my everyday living. I've said recently to a

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Speaker 2: few close friends that I have a mental folder of

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Speaker 2: what people love to eat of mine in my head

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Speaker 2: and in Ramadan, which we now during the month love. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I prepare you know, if I know that my friend

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Speaker 2: loves my chocolate cake, I'll prepare it and have it senter.

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Speaker 2: So I'm very much guided by what people love of

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Speaker 2: what I cook for them, and that is I think

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Speaker 2: was one of the sort of I would say the

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Speaker 2: catalyst for many of the recipes that are actually featured

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Speaker 2: in the book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Nikia, I mean the one that jumped off the

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Speaker 1: page at me because it looked so beautiful and vibrant

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Speaker 1: and golden, but also because I've got to be honest,

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Speaker 1: the recipe looked a little intimidating. And that is the

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Speaker 1: red missile of smoked chicken Brianni with saffron cream. And

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Speaker 1: your description of this dish at the start is so

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Speaker 1: tied up in the fact that it is a dish

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Speaker 1: that you would typically prepare and make a huge effort

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Speaker 1: for to serve and eat as you break the fast,

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Speaker 1: and I mean it's Brianni on steroids. There's a day

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Speaker 1: of marinating, and then there are the elements of crispy

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Speaker 1: fried onions that have got to be prepared two days

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Speaker 1: in advance, and then potatoes that are done on the

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Speaker 1: second day, et cetera. I mean that is a huge effort.

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Speaker 1: But from you know, let's talk about effort and food.

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Speaker 1: Effort plus food equals a display of love and friendship.

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Speaker 1: You've just talked about sending the chocolate cake across. That's

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Speaker 1: very much what this kind of of celebration is all about,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. It's using food as a way of honoring

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Speaker 1: the people around you and showing your love for them.

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Speaker 2: Yes. And if I've got to check back to the

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Speaker 2: Rednatology and Mariyani, Yeah, I think that we sometimes cross

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Speaker 2: the lines between almost extravagant and efforts. And I think

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Speaker 2: I work really smartly in the kitchen. So if I'm

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Speaker 2: busy preparing to night's dinner. I've already marinated my meat

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Speaker 2: for tomorrow's night's dinner while I'm kind of preparing everything else.

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Speaker 2: I really try to work efficiently in the kitchen, and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't mean making extravagant foods, because my book is

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Speaker 2: based off pantry and fridge ingredients. I'm very very intentional

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Speaker 2: about that. I don't want you to go out and

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Speaker 2: have to look for a specific brand of pasta or

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Speaker 2: a specific brand of spice. I really just want you

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Speaker 2: to go to your corner shop and the Indian grosser

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Speaker 2: that you can go and buy one hundred grams of

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Speaker 2: fresh gum masala that's in Roman and you know, take

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Speaker 2: it home, smell it in Halo, just you know, understand

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Speaker 2: what went into creating that masala and how it's going

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Speaker 2: to actually impact and effect the food that you're making.

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Speaker 2: So when I say making a red masala chicken Brianni

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Speaker 2: is going to take you two and a half days,

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Speaker 2: it's actually not consistent work over two and a half days.

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Speaker 2: You will marinate it the one day, the next day

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Speaker 2: you will put it together and possibly steam it that

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Speaker 2: night or steam it the next day. But when we

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Speaker 2: think of big celebrations, and I'm just going to track

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Speaker 2: back to something that's more culturally based for me. Celebrations

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Speaker 2: like eed, we start preparing three days in advance, will

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Speaker 2: marinate our roads leg of lamb, and then in the

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Speaker 2: morning or the evening before, we'll put it on so

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Speaker 2: that it's sitting succulent and it's got three hours of

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Speaker 2: that lamb you know, in the oven, and it's and

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Speaker 2: it's cooking for three hours. And it's very intentional, and

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Speaker 2: we've got to obviously embrace the fact that the love

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Speaker 2: and effort that we're putting into our food is going

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Speaker 2: to show on that table. And I'm a huge believer

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Speaker 2: in marinating your meat, popping it into the foods, that

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Speaker 2: taking it out in the morning, allowing it to default

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Speaker 2: naturally and you have food on the table in the evening.

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Speaker 2: The specific ressip in the book that I've mentioned is,

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Speaker 2: you know, we all don't have the luxury of meal prepping,

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Speaker 2: and we don't have the time to do this. And

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Speaker 2: there's a you know, there's a chops with potato recipe

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Speaker 2: in the book that's eaten with buttered white bread, you know,

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Speaker 2: just the normal bloaf of white bread from your grocery store.

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Speaker 2: It is so hearty, and it feels wholesome, and it

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Speaker 2: feels warm, and it feels homely, and that is really

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Speaker 2: the kind of food that I love to show people

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Speaker 2: that eat from my table.

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Speaker 1: You know what I what excited me most, Nakir opening

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Speaker 1: this book. I mean, besides some of the amazing curries

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Speaker 1: that I can't wait to try, some of the simplest

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Speaker 1: dishes which are similar to what I've grown up eating

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Speaker 1: and cooking, but with an Indian spice twist to them.

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Speaker 1: For example, the crushed baby potatoes, which is something that

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Speaker 1: is always part of my family's Easter feast, but I've

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Speaker 1: never thought to do what you do with it, which

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Speaker 1: is take them that extra step of once you've had

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Speaker 1: these beautiful pre boiled and then roasted crispy potatoes, to

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Speaker 1: pour over a spiced butter with cumin seeds and red

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Speaker 1: chili fakes and that sort of thing to lift them

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Speaker 1: with that whole extra flavor profile. Similarly, there's a recipe

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Speaker 1: for something as simple as chips, but you've put a

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Speaker 1: particular sort of spice mix over the top of them

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Speaker 1: to give them a different flavor profile. And for me,

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Speaker 1: that was very exciting to say that you're making me

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Speaker 1: look at a dish that I've known one way my

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Speaker 1: whole life and think, may there's a different way of

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Speaker 1: trying this and let them let's maybe play with it

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Speaker 1: next time, which is very exciting and I think which

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Speaker 1: is going to make this book appeal very broadly to

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Speaker 1: South African readers. Again, I'm just going to repeat in

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Speaker 1: case anybody's come in midway. The book we're talking about

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Speaker 1: is called Nakia the Journey. Nakia Mayata is the author.

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Speaker 1: In conversation with us, it is a book devoted to

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Speaker 1: her interpretation of classic Indians South African foods, and we

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Speaker 1: can't finish the conversation without having a sweet ending. In

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Speaker 1: this case, Nakia there is I mean, there are chapters

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Speaker 1: on fish, and on chicken, and on lamon mutton, and

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Speaker 1: on vegetarian dishes and sides, et cetera. But towards the

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Speaker 1: end then are there's a section on sweets and on

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Speaker 1: sweet meats. And sweet meats are such an integral I know,

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Speaker 1: part of celebrations like eed or DIVALI maybe we should

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Speaker 1: just finish there with a couple of notes on some

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Speaker 1: of the things that you've included the book, and perhaps

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Speaker 1: you'd like to tell us about one of those two

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Speaker 1: dishes and their symbolism at this time of year.

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Speaker 2: I think it's that growing up as you as I

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Speaker 2: can do. So I'm married into a Muslim family, I'm

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Speaker 2: a Muslim Leebert. I grew up either which way, celebrating,

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Speaker 2: you know, sweetmeats on our Devali table, and it was

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Speaker 2: always something that when I saw those big plastic containers

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Speaker 2: coming out, you know, those clear containers that had a

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Speaker 2: very saint marking of my mum's name on the side

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Speaker 2: of it, I knew immediately that she was starting to

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Speaker 2: prepare for Devali and we would she would obviously put

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Speaker 2: them out on beautiful plates and have them sent out

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Speaker 2: to friends and family, and I grew up watching her,

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Speaker 2: but I grew up smelling it. I grew up with

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Speaker 2: that fragrance and that aroma in my kitchen or her

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Speaker 2: kitchen a week before Devali even came, and we would,

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Speaker 2: you know, often hover around and steal a piece and

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Speaker 2: taste a piece of whatever she was making. And you know,

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Speaker 2: growing up, I didn't realize at the time how important

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Speaker 2: that is to preserve and how important it is to

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Speaker 2: actually go back to the food that actually grounds us.

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Speaker 2: I think the further that we move away from these things,

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Speaker 2: our kids move away from them, We're actually going into

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Speaker 2: the next generation of our children not even understan standing

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Speaker 2: how these sweetmeats are prepared, for example, And it took

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Speaker 2: me a long time to learn, and it took me

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Speaker 2: a long time under the watchful eye of my mum

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Speaker 2: to perfect it. And when I did, I said, this

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Speaker 2: is God. This has to be This has to just

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Speaker 2: go into the book because the reality of it is

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Speaker 2: that we cannot leave out such a huge part of

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Speaker 2: our culture by omitting things that we use or make

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Speaker 2: for our celebrations. So if we look at something like

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Speaker 2: above fee, you know, ironically, you could turn a bove

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Speaker 2: fee into a dessert, which I you know, I took

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Speaker 2: a Channa muggage, which is in the book itself as

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Speaker 2: under sweet meat, and I've turned it into a Channa

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Speaker 2: Muggage pannacotta, which it's unheard of. We've never nobody's ever

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Speaker 2: taken a sweetmeat and turned it into a completely different dessert.

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Speaker 2: You've been using sort of westernized you know, treatment to

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Speaker 2: a dessert. And I really just wanted to say that

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Speaker 2: whilst we are very much a product of our ancestry

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Speaker 2: and where we come from, and you know, how we've

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Speaker 2: grown up. There's also part of us that are young

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Speaker 2: and modern and wanting to experiment with flavor and texture

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Speaker 2: and actually just see who we are. We, you know,

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Speaker 2: as much as we have or are ingrained with all

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Speaker 2: of this, you know, growing up as in Indian and

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Speaker 2: growing up with flavors and spices, but we also are

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Speaker 2: here to say that we really love to modernize our

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Speaker 2: food as well. And I really think, if I have

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Speaker 2: to end on this, I really think that the journey

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Speaker 2: has definitely taught myself and probably shared with my readers

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Speaker 2: that there's just such a huge part of us that

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Speaker 2: hasn't been explored. And as you know, we really try

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Speaker 2: every single day to take the foods that we love

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Speaker 2: but also kind of make it our own. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's what the journey really is about.

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Speaker 1: Now I can't let you go without asking about the

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Speaker 1: third book in the series, because you did let slip

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Speaker 1: that your hope was to create a three book series, Nikya. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: this new one, number two is absolutely gorgeous, and it's

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Speaker 1: beautifully presented and photo graft and styled, and it's on

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Speaker 1: the shelves now. So I'm sure you are very focused

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Speaker 1: on touring and talking about this book, but I've also

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Speaker 1: heard what you've said about just how much work and

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Speaker 1: time goes into creating a book like this. Are you

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Speaker 1: already busy with number three or can you give us

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Speaker 1: a sense of what it's going to be like.

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Speaker 2: I have absolutely no idea. I do have a vision.

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Speaker 2: I have a vision that I would love to see,

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Speaker 2: you know, number two come to life within the next

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Speaker 2: few years. But I'm very much honed in and focused

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Speaker 2: on pushing my book sales. You know, I had the

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Speaker 2: most wonderful news that we already already on the second

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Speaker 2: print run and then we're just a day a day

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Speaker 2: short of being published for a month, which was absolutely

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Speaker 2: incredible for this, for myself and for the team. So

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Speaker 2: I'm very much honed in on you know, we've got

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Speaker 2: bulk orders going out for eed as Beautiful Gifting, and

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Speaker 2: you know I've created I've actually created gifting suits for

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Speaker 2: the book, so we haven't really just stopped it. Oh,

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Speaker 2: here's here's the journey to You've gone to my website.

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Speaker 2: You can order it with with kif trap with ribbon

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Speaker 2: with tagged with So I've really you know, I've been

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Speaker 2: so intentional about how you even present my book, or

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Speaker 2: how much book is presented to your to your recipients.

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Speaker 2: So I'm very much honed in on just getting the

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Speaker 2: book into as many homes as we can locally and abroad.

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Speaker 2: And once I think the bugs to write again kind

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Speaker 2: of itches, I'm sure you will hear from us.

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Speaker 1: I look forward to it, but in the meantime, I'm

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Speaker 1: going straight home to try the chicken ticker recipe this weekend. Nika,

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Speaker 1: thank you lovely to chat to you today. We wish

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Speaker 1: you all the best. Thank for the success of this

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Speaker 1: book to already be in a second print. Run is

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00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 1: I think proof. The proof is literally and the pudding

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Speaker 1: in this case, and we wish you well and all

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Speaker 1: the best as you promote the book and of course

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Speaker 1: celebrate the festivals that this book highlights. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us this afternoon.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate your time. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Keep well, please, Nakia Mayat. And for those who are

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Speaker 1: asking about the spelling, I'm going to give it to

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Speaker 1: you because it's also the spelling of her website, Nakiamayat

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00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,719
Speaker 1: dot com spelled naq i a y A h, so

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Speaker 1: it's n a q i y a H and the

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Speaker 1: surname m A y a T. Her website is nakamayat

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Speaker 1: dot com. If you're looking for the book in stores,

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Speaker 1: you are asking for Nakia the Journey, published by Penguin

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Speaker 1: Random House