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Speaker 1: Seven two wee game Breakfast Personal Finance with Paul Rule

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Speaker 1: of Sir.

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Speaker 2: At twenty four minutes after seven o'clock, shifting our attention

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Speaker 2: from the news of the day to a story from

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Speaker 2: earlier on this week, Treasury is considering their floating a

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Speaker 2: potential proposal of allowing limited access to the two thirds

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Speaker 2: portion of your retirement. To find at present you can

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Speaker 2: only access a third. The two thirds you can only

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Speaker 2: access when you reach retirement aid from fifty five, and

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Speaker 2: so now this conversation could potentially then essentially give people

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Speaker 2: access to their whole pension. And so that's what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about this morning. Were joined us always by a

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Speaker 2: residency to fight financial advisor Paul Rule of Sir. Paul,

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Speaker 2: A very good morning too.

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Speaker 1: I Google, and yes, this is certainly a very interesting

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Speaker 1: development from Treasury. We see that it points to the

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Speaker 1: desperation I think of some sort of pressure that's put

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Speaker 1: on Treasury in the sense that households are struggling and

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Speaker 1: the two pot system, which was introduced in September twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, has taken off in a really wild way

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Speaker 1: in the sense that I think we've already got us

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Speaker 1: an indication that households are very, very desperate just to

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Speaker 1: get access to that one third. I saw some statistics

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Speaker 1: on the first of March when the new taxia arrived.

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Speaker 1: Sixty thousand applications were already made on that first week

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Speaker 1: with one particular service provider. The first application just start

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Speaker 1: of interest was done on the one second after midnight

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Speaker 1: on the first of March. And I think all these

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Speaker 1: points to is at the end of the day, is

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Speaker 1: that there's a desperation and I think Treasury has got

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Speaker 1: a signal. I'm not too sure where the motivation comes from,

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Speaker 1: but it certainly has got us signal to say, well,

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Speaker 1: what about accessing the two thirds, because it's it's obviously

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Speaker 1: in need where people and households are certainly wanting to

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Speaker 1: They need more funding. They're not getting through the month,

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Speaker 1: they're not getting through their last styles and it comes

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Speaker 1: with a lot of decencyes that still have to be unveiled.

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Speaker 1: But perhaps we can just discuss the broad brush of

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Speaker 1: it and the implications around it.

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Speaker 2: And so I guess here what this points to is

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Speaker 2: we essentially have two problems.

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Speaker 1: So a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Ago we heard from Minister in Octomana raising a concern

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Speaker 2: about our low levels of saving, and hence we now

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Speaker 2: have rejigged we've increased the tax free savings limit to

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Speaker 2: try and encourage people to save. We know one of

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Speaker 2: the ways in which we're just not saving enough for

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Speaker 2: saving for retirement. However, at the same time, as you

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Speaker 2: just said households under pressure, a great deal of household

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Speaker 2: income is going towards debts. In some instances where every

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Speaker 2: rand household brings in, up to seventy five cents of

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Speaker 2: that rand goes to servicing debt. And so essentially we

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Speaker 2: have two problems with a short term immediate problem of

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Speaker 2: houses just lacking I guess that liquidity, the money to

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Speaker 2: get through the month. The banks tell us all the

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Speaker 2: time people get paid on the twenty fifth, by the

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Speaker 2: first of that new month they've no money anymore. So

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Speaker 2: there's money needed now. But also South African's aren't saving

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Speaker 2: enough for retirement. And so it's almost as if we're

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out do we fix the short term

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Speaker 2: problem with retirement money and then try to figure out

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Speaker 2: a different thing for retirement when people need it, and

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Speaker 2: especially as people are living longer and longer, which is

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Speaker 2: also part of why we're not saving enough for retirement.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's such a great summary Google, and I think

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Speaker 1: it sort of puts everything in a nutshell. Perhaps we

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Speaker 1: should look at what the two pot system, where the

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Speaker 1: access to the savings pot is addressing the income and

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Speaker 1: expenses side, you know, the monthly living and the immediate things.

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Speaker 1: But when we go down to the two thirds, probably

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Speaker 1: points more to the balance sheet in terms of what

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Speaker 1: we owe and what we own. If I can just

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Speaker 1: cite her, I use this as a case study many

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Speaker 1: times over the periods. I have a particular client I

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Speaker 1: came across who was very desperate during COVID and lost

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Speaker 1: her income for a while and then fell behind on

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Speaker 1: her installments for her bond, and shortly after that the

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Speaker 1: bank started knocking on the door implicating that they're going

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Speaker 1: to take the house away. Now, in that particular case,

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Speaker 1: who went to the balance sheet and we saw on

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Speaker 1: her retirement annuities she had more than enough to pay

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Speaker 1: off her house, but because she wasn't fifty five, she

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Speaker 1: couldn't access it. And there was the anomaly or the

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Speaker 1: irony here. You've got some money, but it's tucked away

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Speaker 1: under some deliberate conditions, and you couldn't touch it. And

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Speaker 1: I think this is the kind of case that the

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Speaker 1: Treasury is now going to look and look to address.

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Speaker 1: There's got to be some kind of financial needs analysis

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Speaker 1: which is presented to Treasury to justify how desperate you

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Speaker 1: really are before they release the amount of money that

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Speaker 1: you apply for. How much they're going to release per

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Speaker 1: case is also a question mark what kind of means

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Speaker 1: test is going to be applied, because I don't think

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Speaker 1: they're going to just open up the floodgates for any

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Speaker 1: excuse around drawing into this fund. It points to there's

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Speaker 1: going to be something very deliberate in their calculations to

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Speaker 1: establish how much and if you do qualify, perhaps for

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Speaker 1: the two thirds draw down. But coming back to this case,

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Speaker 1: it's a crazy story because here I've got a fund.

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Speaker 1: Do I now give up my house so that I

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Speaker 1: keep my fund and then one day somewhere when I

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Speaker 1: do retire i've got an income, Or do I use

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Speaker 1: it now to get out of my debt, keep the

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Speaker 1: roof over my head and then start all over again.

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Speaker 1: I don't know which the better strategy would be, but

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Speaker 1: I think when it gets to those desperate points and

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Speaker 1: you've got money, in a fund or a vehicle. It's

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Speaker 1: a crazy story not to be able to access it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And of course there's also the issue of if

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Speaker 2: the money isn't made accessible that there are more accessible

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Speaker 2: forms of credit, but often they're a little bit more expensive.

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Speaker 2: So those sort of those payday loans, those short term

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Speaker 2: loans that are unsecured. Often they will give you the money,

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Speaker 2: but the interest is higher, which makes that particular kind

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Speaker 2: of debt more expensive. And if the money isn't made

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Speaker 2: available from the two third, it's going to come from

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Speaker 2: somewhere in the question is where.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's too you know. The desperation I think is

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Speaker 1: to go into more debt and then try and overcome

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Speaker 1: the cost of that debt down the road. And invariably,

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Speaker 1: if you don't deal with the right problem as to

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Speaker 1: how you got into debt, first of all, you're just

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Speaker 1: digging a deeper hole for yourself down the road. So

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like an immediate gratification or immediate way out,

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Speaker 1: but there's a consequence of severe one down the road,

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Speaker 1: because when it comes to income and expenses, if you're

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Speaker 1: not generating enough income to cover those expenses and you

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Speaker 1: now go further into a higher cost of debt. It's

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Speaker 1: inevitable what's going to happen. You're not treating the cause,

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Speaker 1: you're treating a symptom. But two thirds side of the

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Speaker 1: equation now, which is now on the table, it does

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Speaker 1: come with Certainly, I would say, if they come in

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Speaker 1: to take my house aware Google, and I've got a

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Speaker 1: retirement fund, I'm certainly going to consider using that money

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Speaker 1: to keep the roof over my head. But it comes

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Speaker 1: with the consequence. The first one is obviously it's not

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Speaker 1: going to be tax free. And again I should imagine

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Speaker 1: that there will be applying the tax tables for retirement

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Speaker 1: and withdrawal to which has a maximum level of thirty

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Speaker 1: six percent. So if you do have some money in

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Speaker 1: a two thirds and you do qualify, don't expect it

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Speaker 1: to come out tax free. It would be great it

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Speaker 1: they did, because that would really be helping desperate households.

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Speaker 1: But that's not the way the system works. The system says, no,

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Speaker 1: hang on a mode. You can't have your cake and

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Speaker 1: eat it. We gave you a tax deduction on all

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Speaker 1: those retirement fund contributions whilst you were saving up for it.

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Speaker 1: Now we want our tax money back, And as I

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Speaker 1: say the tax scales. At the moment, I have a

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Speaker 1: maximum rate of thirty six percent.

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Speaker 2: We have a mother or on the line from Pretoria

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Speaker 2: who actually has a question for us. Mother to thank

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Speaker 2: you for holding good morning, good.

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Speaker 3: Morning, good morning, both of you. I have a question

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Speaker 3: that I think other pensions may also have issues with.

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Speaker 3: I'm always seventy years old, and I've had an issue

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Speaker 3: with my pension issue payment up to now, I had

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Speaker 3: don't received my pension payout, and we've been back and

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Speaker 3: forth with the plan and so on. But I'm also

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Speaker 3: curious about what Little Gloster mentioned about the bond having

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Speaker 3: access to your money while you have my and while

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Speaker 3: you have problems with your bond, and I've also had

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Speaker 3: the same issue, So I'm trying to see how he

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Speaker 3: can assist in terms of advising whether when you have

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Speaker 3: issues with your bond and and in the meantime, you're

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Speaker 3: already over the retirement age but don't have access to

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Speaker 3: that money yet, so how can one maneuver around that.

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Speaker 3: The second question I have is about when you have

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Speaker 3: not received your pension as in my case, and how

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Speaker 3: does one do calculation to make sure that you get

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Speaker 3: what is due to you?

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Speaker 1: Thank you for the question about Well, that's that certainly

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Speaker 1: is a desperate, desperate call, and I really understand that.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you get to a point in your

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Speaker 1: life a seventy year old, you're relying on a pension

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Speaker 1: that isn't that reliable in the terms of delivery. Let's

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Speaker 1: address that. First of all, Google, you've got to go

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Speaker 1: back to the service provider who is providing that pension

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Speaker 1: and get some clear answers to it if it's not satisfactory,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to suggest that you get it in writing,

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Speaker 1: because if you are going to take it further, you've

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Speaker 1: got to have a record of it and then take

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Speaker 1: it straight to the pension funds adjudicator or the FSCA

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Speaker 1: and lay your claim or complaint down on their table

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Speaker 1: and they will react. They will. They're in undated unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: so the timeframe of getting a response isn't that quick.

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Speaker 1: But the point is that there is a recourse, and

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Speaker 1: I think you should explore that. I'm curious to see

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Speaker 1: why your pension is being held back, and your service

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Speaker 1: provider will have to have some very good reasons would

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Speaker 1: least explain why they're not that reliable. But the first

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Speaker 1: recourse always is to the service provider, but get it

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Speaker 1: in writing, send them an email and get a response

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Speaker 1: from them clearly indicating that if it's not satisfactory enough,

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Speaker 1: you're going to take it further. Generally you get a

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Speaker 1: better reaction that way. But the second side of it

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Speaker 1: is a very tricky one. We would need a lot

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Speaker 1: more detail to see what that bond is, how much

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Speaker 1: is outstanding. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound as if you're going

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Speaker 1: to be one of the candidates for these retirement proposals

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Speaker 1: where we can access the two thirds because you already

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Speaker 1: are in your pension. If you still have some retirement

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Speaker 1: funds that you haven't exercised just yet, then obviously that's

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Speaker 1: where we can point to in terms of accessibility. But

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Speaker 1: you've already passed the fifty five year minimum age limit.

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Speaker 1: And this really speaks to anyone who is below that,

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Speaker 1: because after fifty five you can actually retire on your

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Speaker 1: pen funds, your retirement and you as is preservation provident funds,

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Speaker 1: all of them have a retirement minimum age of fifty five,

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Speaker 1: and you're already passed that. So I'm thinking that without

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Speaker 1: any further detail, it's difficult to give you some sound advice,

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Speaker 1: but I would say that you're probably not going to

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Speaker 1: be in a position where you can go to a

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Speaker 1: fund and extract this two thirds. You've passed that stage already.

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Speaker 1: More importantly, I want your pension to arrive on time,

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Speaker 1: all the time, every time. And this is a matter

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Speaker 1: you've got to take up with that provider. But as

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Speaker 1: I say, get it in writing, and then that becomes

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Speaker 1: the platform for further complaints. And there are certainly courses

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Speaker 1: for you to follow to make sure that they know

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Speaker 1: they get up to speed with that vital amount of

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Speaker 1: income that you need.

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Speaker 2: Paul is always a group pleaser having you on the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Thanks you have a great day.

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Speaker 2: Thank you too. That's our Residencytified Financial Advisor Paul Rule

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Speaker 2: of su Coming up, we have a lot at a

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Speaker 2: worrying situation. Our national bird, the blue crane, its numbers

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Speaker 2: are in decline, so we'll try and find out why.

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Speaker 2: We'll speak to doctor Christy Craig, who's a conservation scientist

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Speaker 2: at the International Crane Foundation, Endangered and the Endangered Wildlife Trust.

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Speaker 2: She's also the lead researcher on this recent study that

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Speaker 2: shows these concerning numbers among the iconic Blue crane. But

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Speaker 2: before that, though it's at twenty three minutes before eight o'clock,

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Speaker 2: let's check in with you latest. I witnessed New Sport

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Speaker 2: with Tato Muloto