Speaker 1: So we were going to talk about this last week
Speaker 1: before a deal had actually been signed between Rwanda and
Speaker 1: the DRC pens put to paper on Friday in Washington, DC.
Speaker 1: So an agreement is in place, but already many many
Speaker 1: questions are being asked about the deal, some suggesting, for example,
Speaker 1: that while it is very very clear about economic opportunities
Speaker 1: that might be unlocked, it's less clear about how to
Speaker 1: deal with some of the root causes of a conflict
Speaker 1: that's run for three years. Well, someone who's been keeping
Speaker 1: a very very close eye on the relationship between the
Speaker 1: fact that this is an extremely mineral rich area of
Speaker 1: our continent and the wars that have been going on
Speaker 1: for so long is my guest. Or Jewile is regional
Speaker 1: coordinator at the Institute for Security Studies in Dakar in Senegal.
Speaker 1: Mister Wile, welcome and thanks very much for giving us
Speaker 1: your time. What do you make of this deal? I mean,
Speaker 1: for example, people have said, well, if M twenty three
Speaker 1: is a competent, why were they not part of the talks.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I think Anty
Speaker 2: three is already represented in the conversation as long as
Speaker 2: Ruanda is on the table, because there is sufficient reports
Speaker 2: out there to serve I mean that I'm showing that
Speaker 2: the critical backer for the anternitares the Ruanda government, including
Speaker 2: reports from the United Nations. There's no debate around that.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Now, what I think is very very important is we
Speaker 2: need to understand the fact that this negotiation is lacking
Speaker 2: in or trism. So there is not there's no one
Speaker 2: who is actually on the table, including the supermediator or
Speaker 2: the United State of America, that is in this negotiation
Speaker 2: for the purpose about trism. There is an economic incentive
Speaker 2: for participation, access to the criticalmine era and why that
Speaker 2: is very very important. It does not address the gamut
Speaker 2: of issues that gave rise to this conflict in the
Speaker 2: first place, because they are rooted in identity polities, deeply sociological,
Speaker 2: and with a very long history. Anyone who has been
Speaker 2: following the crisis, we know that it has been an
Speaker 2: episodic experience in the last ten years, thirty years, so
Speaker 2: to speak. But what I can say is that because
Speaker 2: of the process of the United State of America in
Speaker 2: this negotiations, we might be able to experience what I
Speaker 2: would consider like a punctuated peace for now.
Speaker 1: So we've got this for Now, what about the economic
Speaker 1: conversations underlying all of this, Because I've read over a
Speaker 1: number of years the United States extremely concerned by what
Speaker 1: they perceived to be a growing Chinese global monopoly of
Speaker 1: certain crucial minerals, and minerals crucial to where we expect
Speaker 1: economies to move in coming years. Is this a direct
Speaker 1: play by the United States to get access to colt
Speaker 1: and copper and so on.
Speaker 2: Of course, you know, Donald Trump is a deal man,
Speaker 2: and everywhere it goes to talk about make the D,
Speaker 2: makeing D make D. So there is also the heart
Speaker 2: of the deal in this negotiation that is going on.
Speaker 2: And that is the reason why I said earlier that
Speaker 2: the United States of America the issue hope in this
Speaker 2: guy and this negotiation just for the purpose of altruism,
Speaker 2: whether it is the Ukraine, the overacking foreign foreign policy
Speaker 2: that is midwife, the entire process is about access to
Speaker 2: critical minials. And the same thing in DRC. It is
Speaker 2: agreeably the most endown country on the continent, naming from
Speaker 2: Cobert to Deermond to Gold. So it is in the
Speaker 2: interest of any major power to show interest in what
Speaker 2: happens in DARC. And you know, we've had the failed
Speaker 2: under process, Nairobi process, Direstalam process, even Sadic intervention. And
Speaker 2: I think the reason why the United States is able
Speaker 2: to mostart through this is the fact that you don't
Speaker 2: have a superpower that is monitoring, mediating the process and
Speaker 2: also has varieties of two kids to deal with compliance
Speaker 2: issues with the content of the agreement. Equalin functions on
Speaker 2: any world any of the party that probably force us
Speaker 2: or fails to comply, and at the streme cases there
Speaker 2: is the need to even put the boots on the
Speaker 2: ground boat and very soon that we shouldn't get to
Speaker 2: that extent. So it goes to show that when there's
Speaker 2: economic interest, the state is definitely going to put all
Speaker 2: resources together to ensure that the peace to be able
Speaker 2: to ex explore and our next that resurfice is it
Speaker 2: going to be for the greater benefit of the Gongolise.
Speaker 2: The jury is out there, but I think what is
Speaker 2: important is that an average person in Eastern DRC desperately
Speaker 2: one piece now and might likely going to treat anything
Speaker 2: for that to ensure that they can live in peace
Speaker 2: in Goma and Bukavu and all these places that have
Speaker 2: come under the control of MP three and how their
Speaker 2: various hand groups in the recent time.
Speaker 1: So Miss Joli has often said that you don't get
Speaker 1: anything at the table that you don't have in the field.
Speaker 1: That doesn't stop people, of course, who may not have
Speaker 1: any significant muscle or effectiveness in the field, from finding
Speaker 1: themselves at a negotiating table. If you look at this
Speaker 1: from the perspective those the DRC government, how how much
Speaker 1: capacity does this in any way enhance their capacity to
Speaker 1: reassert control over these parts of the of their country
Speaker 1: that I think it's fair to say they've already lost
Speaker 1: control over.
Speaker 2: As he spounds in terms of military capability, it is
Speaker 2: very unlikely that with doubt the non kinetic solution like
Speaker 2: this piece agreement, that the government of the DRC is
Speaker 2: going to gain even an hint again, So I think
Speaker 2: that is the reason why a few days to the
Speaker 2: signing of the agreement we started hearing about Harpers about saying,
Speaker 2: oh the soldier the Rwandi forces must be we drawn
Speaker 2: from within the Combolic territory before they will go ahead
Speaker 2: to go and find the agreement. I don't forget that
Speaker 2: even Felitis A. Kady originally when he was Morelady's idea
Speaker 2: about inviting the United States to midwive the process. What
Speaker 2: he offered his mineral for security guarantee. I think it
Speaker 2: is in there regard that the States might be able
Speaker 2: to have some reclamation about the from the lost gun.
Speaker 2: For much more than that is the fact that even
Speaker 2: if they want to go through the route, it's a
Speaker 2: temporary respite because the fundamental issues of the Bayom Link
Speaker 2: needs to be addressed. They where do they belong, where
Speaker 2: do they stand out? Does the state want to treat them?
Speaker 2: And this bearment that has emerged in terms of a
Speaker 2: major you can't call that a conventional ham group any longer.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about him and the three looking at the
Speaker 2: sophification of the weapons that they've been using in the
Speaker 2: recent time, These non state armed group, it's not even
Speaker 2: in the category of the regular I don't know what
Speaker 2: to put them, because this is that is that has
Speaker 2: the sufficient capability to challenge the States to sanity. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's about just playing them like an harming, a foreign
Speaker 2: harmy so to speak, that has not taken over the place.
Speaker 2: It's very very likely that a military solution is going
Speaker 2: to give the Democratic Republic of Congo reclamation of an
Speaker 2: hinch as thing stands for.
Speaker 1: Now, Thank you so much. Je will joining us from
Speaker 1: the Institute for Security Studies in Senegal. He spent expensive,
Speaker 1: extensive time periods in the Eastern DRC looking at the
Speaker 1: relationship between that country's minerals and riches and on the
Speaker 1: one hand, and an absolutely unstable political reality on the other.
Speaker 1: If you live in either of the country, or perhaps
Speaker 1: have family in that part of the DRC, give us
Speaker 1: your thoughts. There are mixed reactions. Some people are saying
Speaker 1: this is a step in the right direction. Skepticism, though,
Speaker 1: is running far and deep, so do give us a
Speaker 1: call on that if you want to add something to
Speaker 1: what we've just heard. Double one A three seven two