WEBVTT - DRC and Rwanda peace deal 

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<v Speaker 1>So we were going to talk about this last week

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<v Speaker 1>before a deal had actually been signed between Rwanda and

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<v Speaker 1>the DRC pens put to paper on Friday in Washington, DC.

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<v Speaker 1>So an agreement is in place, but already many many

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<v Speaker 1>questions are being asked about the deal, some suggesting, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>that while it is very very clear about economic opportunities

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<v Speaker 1>that might be unlocked, it's less clear about how to

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<v Speaker 1>deal with some of the root causes of a conflict

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<v Speaker 1>that's run for three years. Well, someone who's been keeping

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<v Speaker 1>a very very close eye on the relationship between the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that this is an extremely mineral rich area of

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<v Speaker 1>our continent and the wars that have been going on

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<v Speaker 1>for so long is my guest. Or Jewile is regional

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<v Speaker 1>coordinator at the Institute for Security Studies in Dakar in Senegal.

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<v Speaker 1>Mister Wile, welcome and thanks very much for giving us

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<v Speaker 1>your time. What do you make of this deal? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, people have said, well, if M twenty three

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<v Speaker 1>is a competent, why were they not part of the talks.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for having me. I think Anty

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<v Speaker 2>three is already represented in the conversation as long as

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<v Speaker 2>Ruanda is on the table, because there is sufficient reports

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<v Speaker 2>out there to serve I mean that I'm showing that

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<v Speaker 2>the critical backer for the anternitares the Ruanda government, including

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<v Speaker 2>reports from the United Nations. There's no debate around that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, what I think is very very important is we

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<v Speaker 2>need to understand the fact that this negotiation is lacking

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<v Speaker 2>in or trism. So there is not there's no one

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<v Speaker 2>who is actually on the table, including the supermediator or

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<v Speaker 2>the United State of America, that is in this negotiation

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<v Speaker 2>for the purpose about trism. There is an economic incentive

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<v Speaker 2>for participation, access to the criticalmine era and why that

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<v Speaker 2>is very very important. It does not address the gamut

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<v Speaker 2>of issues that gave rise to this conflict in the

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<v Speaker 2>first place, because they are rooted in identity polities, deeply sociological,

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<v Speaker 2>and with a very long history. Anyone who has been

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<v Speaker 2>following the crisis, we know that it has been an

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<v Speaker 2>episodic experience in the last ten years, thirty years, so

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<v Speaker 2>to speak. But what I can say is that because

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<v Speaker 2>of the process of the United State of America in

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<v Speaker 2>this negotiations, we might be able to experience what I

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<v Speaker 2>would consider like a punctuated peace for now.

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<v Speaker 1>So we've got this for Now, what about the economic

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<v Speaker 1>conversations underlying all of this, Because I've read over a

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<v Speaker 1>number of years the United States extremely concerned by what

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<v Speaker 1>they perceived to be a growing Chinese global monopoly of

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<v Speaker 1>certain crucial minerals, and minerals crucial to where we expect

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<v Speaker 1>economies to move in coming years. Is this a direct

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<v Speaker 1>play by the United States to get access to colt

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<v Speaker 1>and copper and so on.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, you know, Donald Trump is a deal man,

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<v Speaker 2>and everywhere it goes to talk about make the D,

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<v Speaker 2>makeing D make D. So there is also the heart

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<v Speaker 2>of the deal in this negotiation that is going on.

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<v Speaker 2>And that is the reason why I said earlier that

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<v Speaker 2>the United States of America the issue hope in this

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<v Speaker 2>guy and this negotiation just for the purpose of altruism,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it is the Ukraine, the overacking foreign foreign policy

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<v Speaker 2>that is midwife, the entire process is about access to

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<v Speaker 2>critical minials. And the same thing in DRC. It is

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<v Speaker 2>agreeably the most endown country on the continent, naming from

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<v Speaker 2>Cobert to Deermond to Gold. So it is in the

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<v Speaker 2>interest of any major power to show interest in what

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<v Speaker 2>happens in DARC. And you know, we've had the failed

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<v Speaker 2>under process, Nairobi process, Direstalam process, even Sadic intervention. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think the reason why the United States is able

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<v Speaker 2>to mostart through this is the fact that you don't

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<v Speaker 2>have a superpower that is monitoring, mediating the process and

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<v Speaker 2>also has varieties of two kids to deal with compliance

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<v Speaker 2>issues with the content of the agreement. Equalin functions on

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<v Speaker 2>any world any of the party that probably force us

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<v Speaker 2>or fails to comply, and at the streme cases there

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<v Speaker 2>is the need to even put the boots on the

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<v Speaker 2>ground boat and very soon that we shouldn't get to

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<v Speaker 2>that extent. So it goes to show that when there's

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<v Speaker 2>economic interest, the state is definitely going to put all

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<v Speaker 2>resources together to ensure that the peace to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to ex explore and our next that resurfice is it

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<v Speaker 2>going to be for the greater benefit of the Gongolise.

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<v Speaker 2>The jury is out there, but I think what is

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<v Speaker 2>important is that an average person in Eastern DRC desperately

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<v Speaker 2>one piece now and might likely going to treat anything

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<v Speaker 2>for that to ensure that they can live in peace

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<v Speaker 2>in Goma and Bukavu and all these places that have

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<v Speaker 2>come under the control of MP three and how their

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<v Speaker 2>various hand groups in the recent time.

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<v Speaker 1>So Miss Joli has often said that you don't get

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<v Speaker 1>anything at the table that you don't have in the field.

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<v Speaker 1>That doesn't stop people, of course, who may not have

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<v Speaker 1>any significant muscle or effectiveness in the field, from finding

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<v Speaker 1>themselves at a negotiating table. If you look at this

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<v Speaker 1>from the perspective those the DRC government, how how much

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<v Speaker 1>capacity does this in any way enhance their capacity to

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<v Speaker 1>reassert control over these parts of the of their country

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<v Speaker 1>that I think it's fair to say they've already lost

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<v Speaker 1>control over.

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<v Speaker 2>As he spounds in terms of military capability, it is

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<v Speaker 2>very unlikely that with doubt the non kinetic solution like

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<v Speaker 2>this piece agreement, that the government of the DRC is

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<v Speaker 2>going to gain even an hint again, So I think

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<v Speaker 2>that is the reason why a few days to the

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<v Speaker 2>signing of the agreement we started hearing about Harpers about saying,

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<v Speaker 2>oh the soldier the Rwandi forces must be we drawn

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<v Speaker 2>from within the Combolic territory before they will go ahead

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<v Speaker 2>to go and find the agreement. I don't forget that

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<v Speaker 2>even Felitis A. Kady originally when he was Morelady's idea

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<v Speaker 2>about inviting the United States to midwive the process. What

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<v Speaker 2>he offered his mineral for security guarantee. I think it

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<v Speaker 2>is in there regard that the States might be able

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<v Speaker 2>to have some reclamation about the from the lost gun.

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<v Speaker 2>For much more than that is the fact that even

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<v Speaker 2>if they want to go through the route, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>temporary respite because the fundamental issues of the Bayom Link

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<v Speaker 2>needs to be addressed. They where do they belong, where

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<v Speaker 2>do they stand out? Does the state want to treat them?

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<v Speaker 2>And this bearment that has emerged in terms of a

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<v Speaker 2>major you can't call that a conventional ham group any longer.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about him and the three looking at the

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<v Speaker 2>sophification of the weapons that they've been using in the

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<v Speaker 2>recent time, These non state armed group, it's not even

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<v Speaker 2>in the category of the regular I don't know what

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<v Speaker 2>to put them, because this is that is that has

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<v Speaker 2>the sufficient capability to challenge the States to sanity. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's about just playing them like an harming, a foreign

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<v Speaker 2>harmy so to speak, that has not taken over the place.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very very likely that a military solution is going

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<v Speaker 2>to give the Democratic Republic of Congo reclamation of an

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<v Speaker 2>hinch as thing stands for.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, Thank you so much. Je will joining us from

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<v Speaker 1>the Institute for Security Studies in Senegal. He spent expensive,

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<v Speaker 1>extensive time periods in the Eastern DRC looking at the

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<v Speaker 1>relationship between that country's minerals and riches and on the

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<v Speaker 1>one hand, and an absolutely unstable political reality on the other.

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<v Speaker 1>If you live in either of the country, or perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>have family in that part of the DRC, give us

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<v Speaker 1>your thoughts. There are mixed reactions. Some people are saying

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<v Speaker 1>this is a step in the right direction. Skepticism, though,

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<v Speaker 1>is running far and deep, so do give us a

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<v Speaker 1>call on that if you want to add something to

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<v Speaker 1>what we've just heard. Double one A three seven two