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Speaker 1: Seven notes. You're listening to the best of The Money Show.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the best bits of the Money Show. Are

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Speaker 3: digest some of the best thoughts a package if you

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Speaker 3: like of the best parts of the show this week.

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Speaker 3: If you'd like to hear more, please go to our

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Speaker 3: website or your podcast app and search for The Money Show.

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Speaker 3: I would also like to suggest that bound to be

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Speaker 3: someone who is particularly interested in what you've heard in

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Speaker 3: one of the conversations, maybe just one of the comments

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Speaker 3: might well help them. Please do be a mate and

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Speaker 3: descented along to them. I think they might appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: To start, some of the new stories that we thought

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Speaker 3: were important from the week that was, and something that

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Speaker 3: will affect you directly is that consumer price inflation dipping

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Speaker 3: to three and a half percent in January from three

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Speaker 3: point six percent in December. Stable food inflation and lower

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Speaker 3: fuel prices helping there, but still issues with food inflation

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Speaker 3: still at four point four percent. Our official unemployment rate

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Speaker 3: dropping to thirty one point four percent, down from thirty

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Speaker 3: one point nine percent in the last three months of

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Speaker 3: last year. At good news generally, but still so much

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Speaker 3: to do on this issue. Now, how many millions of

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Speaker 3: people are unemployed in our country. And then of course

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Speaker 3: the Reserve Bank saying they're planning to scrap the prime

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Speaker 3: lending rate, they would call it a sab policy rate,

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Speaker 3: and that would have an impact as well on what

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Speaker 3: the repo rate would be called. So it's going to

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Speaker 3: be interesting to watch that one play out. Tonight, we

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Speaker 3: bring you a mix of stories from the world of

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Speaker 3: money from the week that has been an investment school.

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Speaker 3: This week now, educators explored how investors can survive and

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Speaker 3: thrive during major market choke points. Floor Gail said, their

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Speaker 3: chief investment officer and principal at First Avenue Investment Management,

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Speaker 3: along with Nseka and so call Or, an equity analyst

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Speaker 3: at saasfen Wealth, unpacking the challenges that are facing emerging

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Speaker 3: markets and sharing insights and how you can navigate these

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Speaker 3: pressure points and how you can avoid any of the

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Speaker 3: trouble that might be looming.

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Speaker 4: So when we think about choke points, we just think

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Speaker 4: about other compediments to our invest when thesis is specifically

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Speaker 4: certainly ones that we didn't see or didn't for you know,

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Speaker 4: forecasts going into which kind of forces us as investors

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Speaker 4: to perhaps then make an on site decision about whether

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Speaker 4: not to continue with an investment and whether or not

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Speaker 4: the thesis holds up, or to kind of take the

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Speaker 4: loss to the face and perhaps reallocate capital.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, I mean a lot of people would

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Speaker 3: see just as an obvious example, COVID is a check

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Speaker 3: as a choke point. The thing about COVID was it

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Speaker 3: probably affected almost everybody. But would COVID be a good

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Speaker 3: example of something that was a check a choke point

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Speaker 3: or could have been?

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Speaker 4: Oh no, certainly. So I think almost like like COVID

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Speaker 4: really give us these black swan events where really you

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Speaker 4: think they don't occur regularly, but they certainly seem to

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Speaker 4: sharp every five to ten years, and it certainly creates

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Speaker 4: a choke point opportunity, and you know for investors that

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Speaker 4: are skilled enough and perhaps have enough cut an opportunity

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Speaker 4: for certain investors to really get into the certain equities

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Speaker 4: and positions that we like and that you know haven't

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Speaker 4: come up on discount for a very long time.

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Speaker 3: Clelo. There must be so many other examples throughout his street.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, I know immediately the most famous one,

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Speaker 3: you know, the Great Depression.

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Speaker 5: Yes, do you know we we we actually are going

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Speaker 5: through one now the up ending of the global wall

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Speaker 5: trade order, right, Bretton Wood institutions are no longer functioning

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Speaker 5: as they used to function. In fact, I don't think

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Speaker 5: they exist anymore, by the way. Yeah, so that's a

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Speaker 5: true point that has led led to the rise of

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Speaker 5: gold and precious metals as an alternative to the US dollar. Right,

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Speaker 5: Investors are thinking about the fiscal stability of nations, the

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Speaker 5: indebtedness of nations. Japan is one of them. If you

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Speaker 5: look at the long end of the bond thirty year curve,

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Speaker 5: UH investors expressing their dissatisfaction at hat the deterioration government

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Speaker 5: you know, financis at that point, with the US being

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Speaker 5: the same. Right, a lot of countries reinvesting in ornaments

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Speaker 5: Europe to try to combat UH Russia UH and reinvest

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Speaker 5: in the economy and infrastructure. So the the level of

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Speaker 5: indebtedness is out of kilter, right with with with with

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Speaker 5: the credit worthiness that investors have come to expect, hence

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Speaker 5: doubt about the veracity of the various currencies. So the

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Speaker 5: only outlet is gold. Right, So gold is acting as

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Speaker 5: an anchor now to foreign reserves to fear currency. And

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Speaker 5: so if you're operating on the stock market and you

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Speaker 5: don't own gold, you have a big problem because how

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Speaker 5: else do you create wealth without that asset as an

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Speaker 5: alternative to money?

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Speaker 6: M hm.

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Speaker 3: And ciccret would would it always be that the major

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Speaker 3: choke points are kind of you know, depressions or bubbles

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Speaker 3: or crises. Can other things be choke points too? I mean,

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Speaker 3: I suppose in a way what we're going through now

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Speaker 3: is I mean, I suppose it is a crisis, but

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Speaker 3: it isn't a crisis. I mean, in history we'll probably

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Speaker 3: see it as a crisis. I don't know if I

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Speaker 3: do now, but I'm thinking, for example, I mean a

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Speaker 3: quantitative easing when that started, that changed people the outcome

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Speaker 3: of investments.

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Speaker 4: No, certainly, so we have you can speak about your

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Speaker 4: natural ones, the ones that we seem to seem met

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Speaker 4: precipitated in the market through natural events, or you have

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Speaker 4: kind of these ones, these self created ones, and that

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Speaker 4: perhaps when we acted with quantitive easing and we release

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Speaker 4: so much money into the economy, the reticence around exactly

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Speaker 4: how we're going to unwind this trade, you know, it

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Speaker 4: wasn't there. And I think perhaps the short nature, the

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Speaker 4: short nature of how our leadership perhaps sits in some

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Speaker 4: of these seats. When you have people only sitting for

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Speaker 4: four or five years, you know, psycophantic kind of habits

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Speaker 4: tend to rear their heads and people are self serving

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Speaker 4: very much so, and trying to get their period in

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Speaker 4: time to work while not necessarily thinking perhaps for the future,

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Speaker 4: so self created. Certainly, Quantum easing is one that certainly

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Speaker 4: jumps to mind, and on the back of a financial crisis,

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Speaker 4: so that again was you know, very much self created

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Speaker 4: and the selling of you know, irresponsible financial instruments clilo.

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Speaker 3: What happens when you're on the wrong side of a

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Speaker 3: true point, A couple of things happen.

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Speaker 5: Well, a couple of things happened. Number one is if

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Speaker 5: you're an individual investor, you could potentially lose all your capital.

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Speaker 5: The assets or the securities you hold could go bankrupt. Right, So,

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Speaker 5: when you think about the market crash and you don't

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Speaker 5: have correct risk management in the portfolio that you've put together,

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Speaker 5: you could lose all that capital. But if you're a

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Speaker 5: professional money manager, as we are now, if you're on

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Speaker 5: the wrong side of a choke point, you could impair

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Speaker 5: the commerciality of that product such that clients in it.

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Speaker 5: One out and nobody wants in, and that has ended

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Speaker 5: a lot of careers. But more importantly, it as regressed,

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Speaker 5: if not retarded, the retirement schedules that some people thought

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Speaker 5: they were on track to achieve. And it could make

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Speaker 5: clients or investors to have to work a little longer

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Speaker 5: because they lost money in a whole point. Okay, So

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Speaker 5: in seeking, now we know how scary this is. How

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Speaker 5: do you start to get away from it? How do

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Speaker 5: you protect your your investment portfolio from this kind of thing?

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Speaker 4: So I think there's two schools of thought you. I

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Speaker 4: think the main one for me is concentration bills wealth

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Speaker 4: and diversification protects it. And so you know, when you're

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Speaker 4: super concentrated in single securities or single themes, you can

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Speaker 4: create an enormous amount of wealth. I mean, investors invested

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Speaker 4: in Sabania made three four hundred percent, but he's just

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Speaker 4: saw an eight billion dollar in payment to go through

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Speaker 4: the business as early as yesterday. So the quality of

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Speaker 4: the business also rearing its head. And I think so

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Speaker 4: when you talk about protecting wealth, we think about diversification.

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Speaker 4: We think about you know, twenty to twenty four securities

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Speaker 4: on a global basis that all represent best in class

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Speaker 4: solutions and hopefully a lack of correlation. If you're you

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Speaker 4: know you're in Nvidia, theme seems to fall apart. Perhaps

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Speaker 4: you invested in Walmart, and I think staying diversified will

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Speaker 4: keep you away from it making any major mistakes. But

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Speaker 4: that being said, I think you'll only get I don't

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Speaker 4: say mediocre, but market returns.

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Speaker 1: Doing that.

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Speaker 4: To really create one of you have to be willing

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Speaker 4: to swing the bat of bit and so those those

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Speaker 4: showpoints again can become those opportunities to turn your odds

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Speaker 4: towards your favor.

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Speaker 3: I'm sort of immediately thinking, you know, Clelo, as soon

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Speaker 3: as you talk diversity, you think, well, surely what you

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Speaker 3: do as you buy the index. But but I'm reminded

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Speaker 3: that in the case of the Great Depression that Dow

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Speaker 3: only got back to the same number what was it

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Speaker 3: in the nineteen fifties. It took so long, so buying

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Speaker 3: the index wouldn't have saved you. Even during the Second

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Speaker 3: World War wouldn't have saved you.

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Speaker 5: I think during a Great depression the index last ninety

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Speaker 5: percent of its value. So risk management is really important.

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Speaker 5: It's similar as in boxing. Protect yourself at all times,

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Speaker 5: right that's a mantra here and South Africa. Investing on

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Speaker 5: the GRIC is even more dangerous because remember, we used

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Speaker 5: to have one thousand companies on the stock market back

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Speaker 5: in nineteen ninety eight nineteen eighty nine. Now we have

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Speaker 5: only two hundred and twenty five. We used to have

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Speaker 5: a diverse range of sectors. We probably have only fifteen

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Speaker 5: sectors now subsectors now right. We used to have a

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Speaker 5: very vibrant small cap sector fall intents and purposes, we

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Speaker 5: don't anymore. The top forty of the JC accounts for

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Speaker 5: the vast majority, about eighty percent of the market cap

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Speaker 5: or the JC. Right, So diversification is even far more important. Now,

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Speaker 5: how do you diversify? You diversified by type of return

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Speaker 5: that these two and twenty five companies give you on

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Speaker 5: the stock market. There are clearly some companies that are

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Speaker 5: so good and so strong that they that they appeal

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Speaker 5: to the concept of compounding over a long period of time,

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Speaker 5: that capitects the sharp rise the quota. Those become the

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Speaker 5: bedrock of your portfolio. But what tends to kill you,

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Speaker 5: meaning if you get it wrong, it kills you. And

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Speaker 5: if you get it right, you can create an almost

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Speaker 5: amount of wealth, albeit on the short term, is getting

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Speaker 5: your call and resources right because they are extremely volatile. Right,

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Speaker 5: and if you balance compounding with an appropriate exposure to

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Speaker 5: companies that respond to global systematic risks like we are

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Speaker 5: going through now, some companies respond really well to that, right,

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Speaker 5: Like gold responds really well to that. Right, then you

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Speaker 5: can have two track process in your portfolio where you

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Speaker 5: concentrate in compounding to slowly win you the race over time,

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Speaker 5: but you have access to gold counters or precious metal

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Speaker 5: counters platinum as well. Right, that helps you keep up

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Speaker 5: with the stock wall. But if the stock market falls, right,

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Speaker 5: you're not that over exported to it. But your compounding

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Speaker 5: is like keeps you afloat.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So in CICCA there there's also I suppose you

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Speaker 3: know how you deliver. I think it's called a competitive

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Speaker 3: information ratio. You you want to make sure that you

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Speaker 3: are looking at investments in a way that kind of

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Speaker 3: whatever happens, you're going to be fine. But I mean,

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Speaker 3: you keep coming back to the same tension, don't you,

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Speaker 3: which is that you need to concentrate if you're really

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Speaker 3: going to get rich.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so and so Funny, I think the information fighter

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Speaker 4: is one that's also evolved over time. You know, Warren

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Speaker 4: Buffett speaks about the days where they would fight for

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Speaker 4: pieces of you know, fight for magazines and articles, and

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Speaker 4: you'd be fighting to get all this information. And I

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Speaker 4: think as an investment manager these days, it's very much

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Speaker 4: about the opposite and learning away which information to turn away,

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Speaker 4: which information is not important, which information is actually going

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Speaker 4: to impede your returns. And you know, into you know,

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Speaker 4: the eighty twenty year auls and ensuring that you are

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Speaker 4: focused on that twenty percent that produces the eighty percent

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Speaker 4: of the returns. And just tell us point about you know,

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Speaker 4: the top forty representing eighty percent of the you know,

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Speaker 4: market cap of the total JAC You have to get

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Speaker 4: those calls right. You know, whether or not you get

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Speaker 4: your rats and mice correct and you create you know,

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Speaker 4: asymmetric returns from clients is great, but you must get

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Speaker 4: your calls on the major top forty correct. And so

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Speaker 4: you have just risk management and making sure that you're

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Speaker 4: looking at and again considering the right things at the

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Speaker 4: right times and not you know, applying your mind to

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Speaker 4: companies and things that aren't going to affect and you know,

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Speaker 4: ensure that our clients retire with dignity.

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Speaker 1: Philo.

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Speaker 3: There are lots of people would who talk about buying

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Speaker 3: the dipths big thing at the moment. Yes, you have

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Speaker 3: businesses that look broken, but they that you can see

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Speaker 3: they're going to improve. Right, how do you identify the

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Speaker 3: ones that have the highest chance of actually turning around

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Speaker 3: and doing well? And it can't just be because they've

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Speaker 3: brought in a new CEO.

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Speaker 5: So that is a really difficult thing to do, and

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Speaker 5: it's it's best not tried by most people because those

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Speaker 5: are turnaround opportunities. Right. Number one is you have to

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Speaker 5: have very strong patent recognition of how that has happened

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Speaker 5: in the past. Yeah, right, But you have to start

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Speaker 5: with a good base. When a company used to be

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Speaker 5: a great company. A great example is Tiger Brands used

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Speaker 5: to be a great company and somewhere in two thousand

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Speaker 5: and six after the bread scandal, they lost their way

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Speaker 5: and they try to point a few CEOs. Peter Matari

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Speaker 5: didn't work out, Nol Dowley didn't work out, and just

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Speaker 5: about three years ago, twenty twenty two, they appointed a

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Speaker 5: guy called Trod Krueger and he came from Premier and

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Speaker 5: he had really done a great job at Premiere, and

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Speaker 5: his depth of experience really came to the four and

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Speaker 5: Tiger Brands has turned around. But to identify whether all

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Speaker 5: musual is going to work with the new guy who's there,

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Speaker 5: whether pick and pay will work as Tiger Brands has worked,

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Speaker 5: that takes pattern recognition of the highest order. It is

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Speaker 5: probably the hardest thing to do, the hardest thing to

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Speaker 5: do an investment. Don't do it, don't do it. If

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Speaker 5: you can do it, don't sure.

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Speaker 3: How do you know? Well, you'll find out if you don't.

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Speaker 3: Investment School this evening clail log your say is the

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Speaker 3: chief investment officer at First the Avenue Investment Management, and

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Speaker 3: Senciclo is an equity understed at sasphen Wealth. How do

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Speaker 3: you avoid market choke points? Is our topic tonight to

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Speaker 3: put it's another way, how do we keep your money safe?

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Speaker 3: You listen to the Money.

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Speaker 1: Show, The Money Show Investment.

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Speaker 3: School nine minutes to eighth the time and sequence, So

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Speaker 3: Carlo's equity analyst assessmen wealth clail logo, you'll say, chief

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Speaker 3: investment officer at the First Avenue Investment Management. Investors strategies

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Speaker 3: for market choke points and seek if there's some companies

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Speaker 3: or businesses that really are all about risk appetite or

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Speaker 3: risk aversion. I think Gold's the classic example of risk aversion.

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Speaker 3: That's where we are now. There must be some that

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Speaker 3: you go to when you have an appetite for risk.

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Speaker 4: No, certainly, and I think the moment you stop dropping

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Speaker 4: between a lower one percent waiting and the all Z,

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Speaker 4: you're probably getting into that territory. And look there amazing

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Speaker 4: companies or small caps on the JC. Some of our

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Speaker 4: favorites from Telcom to PSG, and a lot of these

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Speaker 4: are again we love Hero and these companies that are

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Speaker 4: owner led, family run and truly where the ownership with

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Speaker 4: the ownership and the asymmetric relationship with benefit and loss

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Speaker 4: are really tied to the to the founders and operating founders.

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Speaker 4: So we saw similar things in Discame and those are

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Speaker 4: companies that do well. It's because everyone is fully aligned

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Speaker 4: on the mission statement of creating value for clients and

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Speaker 4: creating value for for you know, for themselves. So we

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Speaker 4: really look for I mean as an investment philosophy, we

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Speaker 4: like owner led and owner run companies with great track

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Speaker 4: records and with good succession planning. I mean the ruperts

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Speaker 4: and everything that's gone on with or something sim Yeah,

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Speaker 4: this game is a great example, but I mean with

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Speaker 4: like with every business that comes and aimpty the useful

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Speaker 4: life of that and when you need real operators to

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Speaker 4: come and taken over. But Heinek and the business again

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Speaker 4: completely a family around Cartier or what you're seeing an

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Speaker 4: LVMH in the transition there. So these companies can be

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Speaker 4: great and when those transition planning is done correctly, you

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Speaker 4: can create amazing value for clients. And it's really in

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Speaker 4: knowing that you know that owner is fully tied like

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Speaker 4: I am, to the success of this company.

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Speaker 3: Hello, I need to ask a technical question, so I'm

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Speaker 3: going to ask you to use small words please. Liquidity

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Speaker 3: in terms of how often companies shares change hands, it

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Speaker 3: plays quite a big role in the performance of shares

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Speaker 3: in the sector. And then you have passive investors, which

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Speaker 3: is becoming a sort of big, big proportion of investors.

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Speaker 3: They have different impacts as well. So I suppose I'm

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Speaker 3: asking a question about does market structure matter when you're

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Speaker 3: choosing your kind of risks and appetite.

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Speaker 5: More than if I ever matter before. I'm a black

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Speaker 5: rock as fourteen trillion dollars now and black Rock is

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Speaker 5: a passive investor. Their liquidity is ETFs right, which are

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Speaker 5: passive instruments that will invest in the basket of companies. So,

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Speaker 5: for instance, mister Price is only in ten ets around

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Speaker 5: the world, First Run is in twenty ets around the world.

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Speaker 5: Angler Gold is in one hundred and forty four sure

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Speaker 5: ts around the world. This is the reason why you

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Speaker 5: see that you know, goal shares move around like they

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Speaker 5: do because they are purchased directly on the stock market,

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Speaker 5: but they also purchased through ets. England American and Bhpile

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Speaker 5: BSHP are in two hundred ETFs each, so the demand

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Speaker 5: for those companies is staggering. There are trillions looking for England,

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Speaker 5: American and the Gold accessing them through different means. They

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Speaker 5: are more trillion looking for those and they are looking

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Speaker 5: for mister Price.

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Speaker 3: That was Kleloguiose and in Secret and Socolo discussing how

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Speaker 3: you can navigate market checkpoints and build stronger and more

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Speaker 3: resilient portfolios.

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Speaker 1: The best of them on the show.

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Speaker 3: On Africa Business Focus this week, Doctor excuse me. Professor

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Speaker 3: Rotendo and Dingui, the founding director of Tribe Africa Advisory,

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Speaker 3: author of the book rumble in the jungle, reloaded, breaking

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Speaker 3: down the biggest business stories, shaping the content, looking at

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Speaker 3: the trends and some of the triumphs that are driving

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Speaker 3: our continent's economic pulse. And let's start with the Ethiopian Airlines.

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Speaker 3: They beat their revenue target very nicely.

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Speaker 7: They Stephen, and I'm all things to all men, Stephen,

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Speaker 7: just so no stress on that.

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Speaker 3: But don't open that.

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Speaker 7: But Ethopian Airlines Stephen half year is out four point

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Speaker 7: four billion US dollars in terms of revenue, which is

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Speaker 7: a two percent growth. Now we've always Knownopia Airlines Stephen

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Speaker 7: obviously the leading carrier on the continent, been doing very well.

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Speaker 7: But it just highlights again in terms of Ethopia is

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Speaker 7: a country and the confidence is going different sectors because

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Speaker 7: of structural reform. Bearing mind bishop to the new airport

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Speaker 7: that has been built probably ten kilometers just outside at

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Speaker 7: its Ababa, a significant investment by the Americans. We also

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Speaker 7: know that in the early last year they opened their

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Speaker 7: stock exchange. But in this case they've probably looked in

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Speaker 7: the last six months year on year half year on

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Speaker 7: year steven and eleven percent growth in terms of passenger movement,

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Speaker 7: and they've moved eleven million people in six months, so that's

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Speaker 7: a significant number. Cargo is also they've moved but four

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Speaker 7: hundred and fifty one thousand tons of cargo and their

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Speaker 7: total destinations are one hundred and forty five So in

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Speaker 7: a natural steven It's opium continues to grow.

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Speaker 6: And I think the key highlight.

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Speaker 7: Here Steven that this is on the back of visa bands,

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Speaker 7: tariff walls globally. Remember they obviously moved people all over

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Speaker 7: the world with a focus on America is a key

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Speaker 7: market and the challenges that they in the RCS to

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Speaker 7: dance arounding countries. So even on the back of these Stevens,

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Speaker 7: they're still they've done extremely well regards to growing and

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Speaker 7: performing with a twenty percent growth with a two percent

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Speaker 7: growth at a heart year perspective.

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Speaker 3: It really is quite something to watch what's happening with

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Speaker 3: Nigeria and solar energy. They're a very big is this

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Speaker 3: right solar energy importer?

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Speaker 7: Solar energy importer, so this Nigeria has become probably one

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Speaker 7: of the big importers and they actually are stripping Egypt

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Speaker 7: in this regards even in terms of importing solar panels

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Speaker 7: and solar equipment. And why this is so important for Nigeria.

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Speaker 7: We know that historically oil gas has been its focus,

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Speaker 7: but intentionally they have been transitioned in Stephen to alternative

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Speaker 7: power means and obviously solar is a no brainer. They've

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Speaker 7: got significant investments with gods to solar panels and they're

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Speaker 7: putting them. So the upside is that they're importing them

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Speaker 7: from into the country and replacing the sort of the

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Speaker 7: structures that were there before. Nigeria has announced one giga

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Speaker 7: what solar panel factory that they want to invest in.

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Speaker 7: And why this is important Stephen is that obviously a

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Speaker 7: lot of money is being spent in terms of important

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Speaker 7: and predomitory from China. So the key thing is industrialization

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Speaker 7: and manufacturing locally. Egypt, SA and Utopia also following in

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Speaker 7: the same suit, so Africa and itself. Stephen has become

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Speaker 7: the biggest market for solar panel and solar equipment destination,

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Speaker 7: so that's a big thing. Algeria also has become quite

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Speaker 7: a significant player. And also the other thing that is

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Speaker 7: that has facilitated this Stephen obviously transitioning from the from

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Speaker 7: the oil and gas lands from a power perspective, which

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Speaker 7: that whole value chain is still significant. I mean, figures

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Speaker 7: have just come out. Stephen the National Oil Company that's

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Speaker 7: the se for Nigeria that that oversees this has reported

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Speaker 7: a four point two billion US dollar uh after tax profit.

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Speaker 7: So oil and gas still a significant player on the market.

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Speaker 7: But the key thing in transitioning to solar is it's

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Speaker 7: clean energy. It contributes industrialization if they build that factory,

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Speaker 7: and it takes the country in the right direction. And

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Speaker 7: we've seen Angola, Buttwana also diversifying from the oils and

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Speaker 7: the and the diamonds, et cetera, et cetera, which is

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Speaker 7: a great story for Africa in terms of moving in

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Speaker 7: the right direction. So looking at the story, Steven, the

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Speaker 7: upside obviously in terms of them transitioning from earl and

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Speaker 7: gas and going to solar. The downside is they still

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Speaker 7: need to manufacture locally because a big importation bill is

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Speaker 7: still there getting things from China.

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Speaker 3: No sure, And I mean, it's all moving in the

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Speaker 3: right way. Don't anyone tell Donald Trump you got the

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Speaker 3: moaning from oil for solar and Egypt is air marking.

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Speaker 3: It's half a trillion dollars to finance projects across Africa.

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Speaker 3: That's a ton of money.

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Speaker 6: That's a ton of money, Steven.

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Speaker 7: And why I like the story, Steven, because it's a

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Speaker 7: it's a South alf it's an African initiative. Egypt obviously

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Speaker 7: has got a key leadership responsibility in the African New

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Speaker 7: Knew ped framework and their focus is obviously to invest money.

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Speaker 7: They've got EU clearance, there's a whole certification while our

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Speaker 7: alignment process that's there. So from a global perspective, they've

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Speaker 7: got that perspective, they've got that go ahead, and the

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Speaker 7: focus really Steven, is to deal with issues that affect

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Speaker 7: the continent in terms of unemployment, in terms of health,

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Speaker 7: in terms of infrastructure, and the fund is limited to

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Speaker 7: the Africa Business Summit as well. There's a big business summit.

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Speaker 7: I think they've committed with one hundred billion, but I

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Speaker 7: think the positive upside, yes, Stephen, is that they might

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Speaker 7: be up north. Africa is big, but they're doing a

437
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 7: leading initiative for five hundred billion US dollars to develop

438
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 7: three hundred projects over the continent to make the right impact.

439
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 7: So a good story coming from Africa. African's leading trying

440
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 7: to solve our African problems.

441
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 3: Really really important. As Zambia is mining regulated, they suspended

442
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 3: operation at more Pane's Falira.

443
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 7: Mineanu Felida Mine Morey.

444
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 6: As we know, steven is probably all.

445
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 7: Zambia is the second biggest producer of copper on the continent.

446
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 7: The first is the d R S Morepani is fifty

447
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 7: one percent owned by a UAE outfit called IrH and

448
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 7: the other one is olled by local by by state

449
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 7: owned enterprise. The reason, unfortunately, which is quite sad, is

450
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 7: that the regulator has done the right thing. It's been

451
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 7: the one or two accidents that have happened on the mind,

452
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 7: they've been I'm accounted for, and I guess the auditibility

453
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 7: of what has happened hasn't been clear, so the regulator

454
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,479
Speaker 7: has stepped up. Obviously, this is quite a big impact

455
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 7: because Zambia in terms of copper is more Pani is

456
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 7: a key player in that space. Steven It's copper output

457
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 7: year on ears grown by ten percent, so they are

458
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 7: producing about eight hundred and twenty metric tons of copper

459
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 7: and they are targeted to produce twenty by twenty thirty

460
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 7: one three million metric tons of copper. But this does

461
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 7: not mean anything if there's not proper infrastructure and rules

462
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,239
Speaker 7: in place. Is from a health and safety perspective, and

463
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 7: that's why the regulator has stepped in in terms of

464
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 7: investigating the issue. Hopefully it's quickly resolved, identified in accountability

465
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 7: and safety is back in line so that people can

466
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 7: continue mining. But because at the end of the day,

467
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 7: jobs are impacted and that translates to lives, so hopefully

468
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 7: that will come out of the players soon, Stephen.

469
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 3: And then in Morgadishu, Somalia, and we've heard so many

470
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 3: difficult things over the years, they've now got a bowling alley.

471
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 7: We've got a bowling Allie and Magadish so Mariia Steven

472
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 7: weno It. Obviously morgadish has gone through a civil war

473
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 7: for the last thirty five years. But because of the

474
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 7: focus on safety. One of the key inertuatives that has

475
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 7: come up, and it seems to be led by locals,

476
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 7: is the famous Bowling center.

477
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 6: And it's it's a basic bowling It's.

478
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 7: Attracted a great hype and high in the city and

479
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 7: really people just come in. It's a social gathering place.

480
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 7: It just gives a breath of fresh air for a

481
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 7: continent or for a country that has one through so

482
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 7: much from a tumultuous perspective. Over the last number of

483
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 7: decades and it's given young people and old people a

484
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 7: place to come to find entertainment. Forty young people have

485
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 7: been employed, so that's obviously deal with the unemployment problem.

486
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 7: Although the unemployment rate is twenty one percent, not as

487
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 7: better as South Africa, but still Stephen, you know this

488
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 7: is a breath of fleshia on the Magadian story that

489
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 7: we know is that a hard civil war history, and

490
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 7: obviously it's still interest. But ultimately something like this has

491
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 7: made such a social impact both locally and in the

492
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 7: dashport or realm of Magadicia, and people coming from all

493
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 7: over the world back to Somalia and studies like this

494
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 7: exciting because it gives them a hope in terms of

495
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 7: where the country and the city can go.

496
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 3: Professor Rutendo and Dingui, they're giving us a sharp insight.

497
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 3: Seven you will.

498
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: Listening to the Money Shows the best bits.

499
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: Your business book reviewed this week Graham Mitchell giving you

500
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 3: powerful insights drawn from his compounding advantage, How small steps

501
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 3: build big businesses. He was looking at how the real

502
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 3: key to things is to take the small stuff into

503
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 3: execute it properly, time and time and time again.

504
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: What we've seen Stephen is. Having worked with small and

505
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 2: medium sized businesses for the last fifteen years, it's given

506
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 2: us a great perspective of what drives exceptional results in

507
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: these businesses. And what we've seen is those clients that

508
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: are able to choose a few of the right priorities

509
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: each quarter, execute brilliantly well on them, then reap the

510
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: benefits from that, and then repeat this in the next quarter,

511
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: and do this consistently over a period of time. They

512
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 2: effectively create a compounding effect in their business where each

513
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: step forward builds on the previous step, and this then

514
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: works at the founder and the leadership team are able

515
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 2: to then build real momentum and get real results in

516
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 2: their business.

517
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: Is it about knowing what to concentrate on so three

518
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: things rather than fifteen things?

519
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Stephen. It's very critical that you choose the right priorities.

520
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: Just as in investing, you need to choose the right

521
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: investments to invest in if you want to benefit from

522
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 2: compounding returns, the same applies in choosing the right few

523
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 2: priorities and making sure you get that right.

524
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: How do you tell which is which? And I mean,

525
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 3: you know this is it's interesting. We've had a conversation

526
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: with a small business expert about this, which is one

527
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 3: of the reasons I'm interested in your view because for

528
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 3: a lot of people, the entrepreneur, the person who starts

529
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: the business, kind of does everything and that's what often

530
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 3: makes running a small business so difficult.

531
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so choosing the priorities can be tough, but what

532
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: I've typically found is that the entrepreneurs can choose the

533
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: right priority. The hardest part is saying no to all

534
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: the other things they want to do. So I usually

535
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: find choosing the right priority is easier than saying no

536
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: to doing all the other things.

537
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 3: Some of the other things might feel a bit burning

538
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 3: that they need to be dealt with. You have to

539
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 3: be able to say no.

540
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: Well, that is the challenge, Stevens. So that tends to

541
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: be the tougher challenge. I mean, usually entrepreneurs have a

542
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: good sense of their businesses and what is the critical

543
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 2: thing to move forward. But you're having a business coach

544
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: help you in your business can also ensure that they're

545
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: bringing a level of perspective to you in helping you

546
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: choose the right priority, and also having a good team

547
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: around you will also improve the chances that you choose

548
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: the right priority.

549
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 3: You suggest that people who need businesses also need to

550
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: have a lot of self awareness. Why is that so important.

551
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: It's very important because as the business grows, so your

552
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 2: leadership needs to evolve. And so the challenge for a

553
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: lot of entrepreneurs is, you know, for a successful entrepreneur,

554
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: they often have a particular view of the world that's different.

555
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: That's why they started the business. That's seen an opportunity.

556
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: They have a different view of how something could be done.

557
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: They also need to have a fairly high level of

558
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: confidence to start the business, and so what happens is

559
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: when the business reaches a level of success, they get

560
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: increasing confidence that their view of the world is right.

561
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: It's been reinforced. However, as the business grows, certain aspects

562
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: of their leadership will need to grow as well, and

563
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: so it's really important to be able to reflect on

564
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: your leadership and how that's impacting the business today and

565
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: whether there's a need to shift your leadership style in

566
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: order to allow the business to continue to grow in

567
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: the future.

568
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 3: And I mean, you need to sort of understand the

569
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: people who are working with you as well. You need

570
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 3: to know them quite well that if you don't, that's

571
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: not going to work.

572
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, and so your ability to judge your impact

573
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 2: on others because different people on the team, you may

574
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: need to adjust how you lead and work with those

575
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: people and be able to identify those differences.

576
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: The clients you've been working with, I think theyre about

577
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: one hundred and eighty of them, which is quite a

578
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 3: long list, Graham. I mean, I presume you have examples

579
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: where this idea of just focusing on the execution, focusing

580
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 3: on the priorities, you will have examples of where that's

581
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 3: really work for businesses and how it's paid off over

582
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: the longer run.

583
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, Stephen. We've got many clients that have started

584
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: out with us maybe doing thirty or forty million a

585
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: year in revenue, and today are doing, you know, several

586
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: hundred million a year in revenue. And that's how we've

587
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: been able to see what are the things that allowed

588
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: them to lock that in their business.

589
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: I think some people when they pick up a book

590
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: about small business, and I'm sorry to say this, gram

591
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: and I'm sure you know this, there are many of

592
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: them that they will be looking for a silver bullet,

593
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: a sort of magic thing. If I just do this,

594
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 3: or if I just do this differently, you know, it's

595
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: like losing weight Suddenly it'll all work and it'll be

596
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 3: fine and I'll be guilt free. It's kind of not

597
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: like that. So when people read your book, what do

598
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 3: you think they're going to get? They aren't going to

599
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 3: get from other books in this space, And I must

600
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: say for a lot of people, it is really about

601
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 3: simplifying life, which is to an extent what I think

602
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 3: you're trying to say.

603
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: Yes, that's correct. They're not going to get a quick

604
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: win silver bullet. But what they are going to get

605
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: is a clear road map that if they follow it

606
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: and stay consistent to follow it, they can get exceptional

607
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: results in their business.

608
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: And how long does it take to go from small

609
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: to let's say medium size. There is no quick fix.

610
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 3: You need to know that it's going to be ten years.

611
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 3: It's a long haul to make this work.

612
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: It is a long haul, and so ten years could

613
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: well be the number. It obviously differs from business to

614
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 2: business because there will be certain factors that might aid

615
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: you and speed up the process. You know, if you're

616
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 2: in a market that's growing quickly, but yes, the journey

617
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: is probably longer than you would like it to be.

618
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 2: But if you follow the process and stick to the principles,

619
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 2: you can have a very successful outcome.

620
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: Graham Mitchell there sharing the thinking behind compounding advantage, How

621
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 3: small steps Build Big businesses.

622
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: Seven notes the best of the Money Show from this week.

623
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,959
Speaker 3: How I Make My Money. This week we looked at

624
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 3: more So the business of saving South Africa's shopping malls

625
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 3: and particularly a four ways more in Joe Berg Poor

626
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 3: Girard is the managing director of Flannagan and Gerard Property Group.

627
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 3: He explained how you do it? How do you take

628
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 3: a shopping mall that's failing and turn it around? Parking

629
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 3: obviously a big issue.

630
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 8: Well, I think that some shopping center developers choose to

631
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 8: develop shopping centers based on the income stream they think

632
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 8: they're going to achieve and don't really focus on the

633
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 8: ultimate end user, the customer, because it's all about customer experience.

634
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 8: There's so much variety and so many shopping centers out there.

635
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 8: Unless you're focusing on the end user, the consumer and

636
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 8: making it the easiest possible journey for the consumer, you're

637
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 8: missing out. And like the first point of call if

638
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 8: you're developing a convenience center, would be left in, left

639
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 8: out on the way home from their work, yes, because

640
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 8: nobody wants to cross the media and on the way home.

641
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 8: But there's I mean, obviously there's so many extra things

642
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 8: that you can do to make the shopping center better.

643
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 8: You want to be able to push a trolley from

644
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 8: the supermarket to your car. So Africans are lazy. They

645
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 8: don't want to change. They don't have to walk upstairs

646
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 8: or walk you user escalator or a lift. In some

647
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 8: shopping centers where there's structured parking, making sure lighting is

648
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 8: adequate because people feel insecure when the lighting is low,

649
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 8: So you've got to get the lighting levels to make

650
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 8: them feel safe. Even if your security is excellent, if

651
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 8: the lighting levels are low, they'll feel unsafe. So that's

652
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 8: an important aspect.

653
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 3: I made a joke earlier when I told everyone we

654
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 3: were talking to you, and I said, you know, there

655
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 3: are three things you need to do to get a

656
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 3: shopping mall right, which is parking, parking and parking. Yes,

657
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 3: I mean places I go to that I know are

658
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 3: slightly more expensive. I'm sorry to say this, but because

659
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 3: the parking works.

660
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 8: Parking is important. You know, we took on four ways

661
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 8: more it was going through a bit of distress, a

662
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 8: few years ago. It was actually two years ago to

663
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 8: the day pretty much. And one of the things that

664
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 8: they didn't do is the access as you entered there

665
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 8: was there was conflict, There were cars parked in the way,

666
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 8: and you always had to yet to make a turn.

667
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 8: And so what we did is we just made it

668
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 8: more simple. So you flow in and you and you

669
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 8: and find your parking. Directional signage within parking areas is

670
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 8: important and so yeah, so the ease of getting in

671
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 8: is more important than actually ease of getting out. People

672
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 8: are less stressed getting out than they are getting in.

673
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I have an example from four Ways, you know,

674
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 3: and I'll throw around the brand just because we're here,

675
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 3: But you know, I remember taking a kid's party to Bounce,

676
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 3: and I'm going to mention Bounce letter as a specific

677
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 3: question about shopping centers, and my wife and I had

678
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 3: to take it literally in turns to get the kids

679
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 3: across from where we had parked into the mall because

680
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 3: the parking was so bad. You had to basically walk

681
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 3: across what looked like a runway. You know, it was

682
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 3: really quite scary.

683
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 8: Well that is still the case. You know, that's a

684
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 8: structural problem that we can't fix. There are multiple levels

685
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 8: and we can get people in. We did subsequently create

686
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 8: an Uber drop off and go near closer to Bounce.

687
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 8: We closed the nightclub there because you know, you don't

688
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 8: really want people drinking and people bringing their kids to

689
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 8: the set place. It's not there's a conflict there. So

690
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 8: you you want to bring like a complementary type of

691
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 8: retail to the same place, and we prefer shopping centers

692
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 8: that are family oriented rather than drinking oriented. Now there

693
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 8: are other places for Tiger's Milk and Laparada, but that's

694
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 8: for other people. We like Spur and Bounce and Stirkinicorn

695
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 8: and the like.

696
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: I mentioned Bounce because I wanted to ask and I

697
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 3: get all my anchor tenants and all of that stuff

698
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 3: in a minute. But does have having something that's quite

699
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 3: rare or almost unique help as an attraction. And there

700
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 3: are other Bounces and there is a competitor too, yes,

701
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 3: at other shopping centers, but you would have to look

702
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: quite far from them. Well, I think for us, we

703
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 3: always want the best. So fortunately four West Mall's Bounce

704
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 3: is their flagship and it's got a very good range.

705
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 8: Of activities for the kids. There's a clip and climb

706
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 8: at the back, which is in addition to the trampoline park.

707
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 8: And ultimately, what we're trying to do it four Ways

708
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 8: More specifically is create specific destinations. So we've included we've

709
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 8: brought in a climbing gym called Block eleven that's uniqueness

710
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 8: to Joe Burger, is one in Cape Town. Now we've

711
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 8: also got Total Ninja and Shooters, which is the first

712
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 8: in the country. Shooters is an international adult arcade, so

713
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 8: you can do clay pigeon shooting and darts and pool

714
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 8: and put and a whole bunch of different activities. No drinking, No, no,

715
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 8: the drinking is part of it, but you know that's what.

716
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 8: And then obviously we've got a pedal and we've we've

717
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 8: created this thing called the Urban Playground, which is a

718
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 8: skate park. So we've tried to bring in many people

719
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 8: for reasons other than shopping, because Four Ways More was

720
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 8: volumeless and had had a lot of vacancies and we

721
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 8: needed to create energy and then we'd populate the retail

722
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 8: around the energy.

723
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 3: So when I was young, which was in a different millennium,

724
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 3: you would go and I would spend a lot of

725
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 3: time as a teenager on a Friday or Saturday night

726
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 3: going to the movies because that's what you did, yes,

727
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 3: and all of the stuff that happened around it. You

728
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: go and get an ice cream because no one had

729
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 3: money for a stake or any of those things. Yes,

730
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 3: I don't know that young people go to them go

731
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: to them more to watch a movie anymore. So what

732
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 3: do you Is there something that replaces movies to movies

733
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: still have a pool that I'm not aware of.

734
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean I have a teenage daughter and she

735
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 8: goes to the movies, or at least that's what she

736
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 8: tells me when she goes to meet her friends or

737
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 8: some boys sometimes. So it's a combination of that. You know,

738
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 8: a lot of the time the teenagers are going to

739
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 8: just walk around in window shop. They often don't have

740
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 8: a huge amount of cash flow, so they they'll buy

741
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 8: something smaller debonairs maybe and go get an ice cream

742
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 8: and maybe go to a movie. But movies have definitely

743
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 8: dropped off. Content at the movies also plays a big

744
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 8: role at as to whether people are going to go

745
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 8: or not. And I'm we're constantly in communication with the

746
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 8: cinema houses to find out what's big and you can

747
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 8: see the attendances are very much correlated to the quality

748
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 8: of the movie, and there's fewer bums and seats for

749
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 8: sure because people have got access to entertainment at home.

750
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 8: But there are other reasons for people going to the mall,

751
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 8: and it's mostly about socialization. You know, kids have got

752
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 8: all their entertainment at home, so they actually want to

753
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 8: meet up and do things. So whether it's adventure golf

754
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 8: or tenpin bowling or climbing. My son who's now twenty two,

755
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 8: he's almost every day at Fourways more at the climbing gym,

756
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 8: So yeah, we're trying to create a place for people

757
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 8: to meet and spend time, and then obviously four Ways

758
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 8: more specifically, we're creating a very unique space on the

759
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 8: corner of Cedar and vit Corpen, which we'll be opening

760
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 8: later this year, which is going to include a whole

761
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 8: bunch of high end quality restaurants and delis, some of

762
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 8: which you've probably shopped at. I don't want to give

763
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 8: too much away the thank you so.

764
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 3: When you do that, right, Yeah, that's only going to

765
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 3: work if you can get traffic in and out quickly,

766
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 3: which means that you have to get the traffic lights

767
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: to work. The roads have to be able to take it,

768
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 3: because I mean, I'm presuming you know this, but four

769
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: ways traffic pretty much at any time can be a disaster.

770
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 3: And I'm being very polite when I use that word. Yeah,

771
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 3: so hot on, how do you move the traffic in now?

772
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 3: And let's be clear as well, shopping centers, middle class

773
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 3: people who have them are going to use their cards.

774
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 8: So four ways is a very interesting point. When we

775
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 8: took it over, we said to the powers that be,

776
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 8: which were the owners and the banks that are all

777
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 8: representing four ways, that we don't believe that you're going

778
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 8: to fix four ways more by just looking at four

779
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 8: ways more. We actually had to look at the whole precinct.

780
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 8: So we put together a four ways improvement district. We

781
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 8: went to Growth Point and Sogo Sun from Monte Casino,

782
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 8: Burstone Fortress, all the big land owners all the way

783
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 8: down to stan City including Stan City, Dane Fern four

784
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 8: ways gardens and we've got a voluntary improvement district and.

785
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 3: One of the first like what Santon has.

786
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 8: Exactly what Santon has. And then we went to car

787
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 8: trans and we got them to do the adopt a

788
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 8: robot campaign, so we introduced that and what it means

789
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 8: is that every property owner has the traffic light and

790
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 8: backup power so if there's an issue, it will continue

791
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 8: to operate. We've also planted trees, we're getting street lights working,

792
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 8: and we've been working with the taxis and hawkers to

793
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 8: clean up the streets. It's not a perfect science, it's

794
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 8: a work in progress, but it's definitely better than it

795
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 8: was when we started. But yes, that's important. You know,

796
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 8: everything around four Ways is as important as the mall itself.

797
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 3: When you approach them all. So four ways or another

798
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 3: one you've taken over morning Side, now holy, you have

799
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: to have and everyone knows that. The anchor tenants so

800
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 3: in sort of you know, middle class South African terms

801
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 3: all words, but also also a checkers or a pick

802
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 3: and pay or whatever. And for something that's quite big,

803
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: you wouldn't have just one, you'd have a couple, yea.

804
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 3: How do you get that mixture right?

805
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 8: So the anchor tenants are really there to draw energy,

806
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 8: draw foot traffic in there. And then obviously you'll you

807
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 8: make up a lot of the rent that you need

808
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 8: to make the development work with the line shops that

809
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 8: feed off the anchor retailers. So you want to bookend

810
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 8: What do I mean by that? Do you you want

811
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 8: to place them on opposite ends of the shopping center

812
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 8: so that you can have a flow of energy and

813
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 8: even flow of energy between. Like Morning Side has got

814
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 8: a Pick and Pay downstairs and a Willie's upstairs, and

815
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 8: we've got to Clicks as well downstairs. And I guess

816
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 8: Tasha's forms a bit of an anchor in the Morning

817
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 8: Side in Morning Side, and really you want the flow

818
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 8: in between because you want the guys in between to

819
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,479
Speaker 8: be able to pick up the trade from these big

820
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 8: anchor retailers four ways. On the other hand, is about

821
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 8: eight anchor retailers from Walmart, Checkers, Hyper, Pick and Pay, Woolworths,

822
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 8: Igger's and so on.

823
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 3: You are so certain brands are complementary, So I think

824
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 3: Checkers or Pick and Pay under Woolworths. Yes, that Checkers

825
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 3: and Pick and Pay are not they are competitors, correct,

826
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 3: So I presume the bigger the shopping center. I mean,

827
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 3: I remember, I can't I don't know, I couldn't give

828
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 3: you the name now, but I remember spending a week

829
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 3: in Richard's Bay and being amazed at the shopping center

830
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 3: there seem to have all of the supermarkets in one place. Yes,

831
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 3: how do you manage that relationship? Because at a certain

832
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 3: size it would actually work to have competitors, but below

833
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 3: that certain size is not going to work. They're going

834
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: to fight it out in the street.

835
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're right. You know. The thing is is that

836
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 8: you want the energy in your center, and if there's

837
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 8: going to be an opportunity for that anchor to go

838
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 8: across the road, you're just going to be splitting the energy.

839
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 8: So you if your shopping center has the capacity to

840
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 8: be big enough and you've got the ability to have

841
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 8: checkers on one end and a pick and pan the

842
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 8: other end, and maybe the Willie's in the middle. You know,

843
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 8: people are brand oil. You know, some people are tix stoppers.

844
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 8: You know, Clicks Loyalty club card is extremely popular, especially

845
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 8: and more in the rural areas, disk them more in

846
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 8: the metros. But everybody's got their brand, and some people

847
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 8: are clicks and disc and checkers, and some people are

848
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 8: pick and pan and discm shoppers, and some are a

849
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 8: combination of all of the above. So we want to

850
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 8: give our customer every possible opportunity to want to shop

851
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 8: in our shopping center. There are obviously types of retail

852
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 8: where it's complementary, where a person wants to shop at

853
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 8: a truerse and a Fashini because they want to be

854
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 8: able to compare that top or those those shoes, or

855
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,959
Speaker 8: you know, maybe mister Price has got a slightly better

856
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 8: deal on a new pair of denims. So you know,

857
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 8: you want to have all of them together.

858
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 3: When you have all of these shops together, they want

859
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 3: certain things from you, and they don't just want the

860
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 3: lights and water to work. They also want data about

861
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 3: the customers coming in. Yes, so do you count the

862
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 3: people coming in?

863
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 8: We do so, and that's changed. It's evolved over the years.

864
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 8: You know, in the past it was really just a

865
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 8: foot counter that would pick up a person walking past

866
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 8: an entrance, but now we use cameras over the entrance,

867
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 8: which can give you a slightly better idea of who

868
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 8: it is that's walking in and out. Very important for

869
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 8: retailers to understand the entrances that people come in and

870
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 8: out of, as well as the quantum of people that

871
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 8: enter the shopping center. You're if you've got paid for

872
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 8: parking that you'll get stats on the number of people

873
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 8: entering and exiting by car and then I guess by taxi.

874
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 8: You know you four Ways has got a massive taxi rank, Yeah,

875
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 8: and a big taxi holding facility underneath it. And we

876
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 8: probably get about twenty five to thirty percent of our

877
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 8: customers coming by taxi.

878
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 3: So can you tell how many people come in and

879
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 3: how many of them spend money and how many of

880
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: them don't?

881
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 8: Y kind of we we get turnover reports. At least

882
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 8: each retailer will give us the amount of turnover that

883
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 8: they generated in a monthly basis, and we use that

884
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 8: to identify either whether a retailer is struggling or whether

885
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 8: an area of the mall is underperforming. Obviously, if everybody

886
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 8: in one area is has the turnovers challenging, we need

887
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 8: to find an energy, some kind of energy to bring

888
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 8: to that area in order to assist all the retailers,

889
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 8: because that's a low energy point of them all. If

890
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 8: it's just one retailer within the whole area that's not performing,

891
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 8: then we need to go and have a chat to

892
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 8: the retailer to see whether we can help them. Some

893
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 8: retailers are beyond help, and sometimes you need to find

894
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 8: a replacement, And that's kind of the science of it.

895
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 8: It's not terribly scientific, but that's it.

896
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 3: That's what we do, and so you will probably be

897
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 3: able to tell sort of roughly what the average spend

898
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 3: per month in them all is. Yes, so person, Yeah.

899
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 8: We do so. It's obviously total turnover divided by number

900
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 8: of people. So all malls are different, you know, the

901
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 8: spend per head varies. You know, some shopping center. We've

902
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,879
Speaker 8: got a shopping center in Port Elizabeth called Boardwalk Mall.

903
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 6: It has a huge.

904
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 8: Number of foot traffic for the total turnover, and that's

905
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 8: because a lot of people use it to park and

906
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 8: then walk to the beach. So they walk through the

907
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 8: shopping center, pick up an ice cream along the way,

908
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 8: but they're not spending as if they're going to supermarkets

909
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 8: and pharmacies. But then and Morning Side has also got

910
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 8: a high foot traffic relative to the total turnover. But

911
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 8: you know, ultimately, what we're trying to do with every

912
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 8: shopping center is identify their basic needs, which is food, pharmaceuticals,

913
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 8: liquor those are your general convenience needs. Then there's a

914
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 8: bit of banking, and depends on where you are in

915
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 8: the country, the moral air rural areas prefer actual banks

916
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:01,280
Speaker 8: and ATMs, but places like more in the neighborhood Square.

917
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 8: They don't need banking because most people haven't seen the

918
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 8: inside of a bank for years. You know, we all

919
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 8: banking online or have a private bank that phones us

920
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 8: up and asks us what we need to do.

921
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,720
Speaker 3: Paul Gerrard there the managing director of Flanagan and Gerard

922
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 3: Property Group, taking us inside their work developing and revitalizing

923
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: some of our biggest shopping centers.

924
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: You are listening to the Money Shows the best bits.

925
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 3: You've been listening to the best bits of the Money

926
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 3: Show just a digest of some of the best comments

927
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 3: and thoughts and insights from the week. If you'd like

928
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 3: to hear more, please go to our website or your

929
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 3: podcast app and search for The Money Show. Thanks so

930
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 3: much for being with us this week. I really do

931
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 3: appreciate it. We'll be back with you on The Money

932
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 3: Show at six o'clock on Monday. Have a good weekend.