Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven
Speaker 1: O two. Let's walk little.
Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you
Speaker 2: by Abscess cib As registered FSP. Good evening, I'm Stephen Curtis.
Speaker 2: Seven minutes after six. Welcome to the program. A bit
Speaker 2: of anticipation in the AVERB twenty starting literally as we
Speaker 2: start talking to you tonight, the President is in. He
Speaker 2: is giving a big dinner for CEOs ahead of the
Speaker 2: G twenty. We'll hear from our reporter Knockakanye Tamble, who
Speaker 2: is there for you today, the EWN reporter there. So
Speaker 2: looking forward to that conversation with her. Other events of
Speaker 2: course going on, and you do just get that sense
Speaker 2: that things now really are stepping up a gear ahead
Speaker 2: of the G twenty over the weekend, and of course
Speaker 2: you'll have a lot of coverage from that will broadcast
Speaker 2: live from there through the weekend as well. Looking forward
Speaker 2: to the conversation with telcomen just a moment, non Colled
Speaker 2: ecud Lamini is the group chief financial Officer of Telcom.
Speaker 2: Thev had what seemed to me to be pretty strong
Speaker 2: results and they do seem to be eating the prepaid
Speaker 2: lunch of MTN and Vodacom. Also, I was at the
Speaker 2: big Bloomberg event this morning. This is the Bloomberg Africa
Speaker 2: Business event. They were talking their summer. They were talking.
Speaker 2: Ronald Lamuller was there. He was talking about the US
Speaker 2: boycott of the G twenty. But also an interesting question,
Speaker 2: where would you invest a million rand And let me
Speaker 2: put the question to you differently, how much of it
Speaker 2: would you invest in South Africa and how much offshore?
Speaker 2: If you've learned anything from Warren Ingram over the years,
Speaker 2: it's that you do need to diversify. You don't put
Speaker 2: it all in one place in one country. But how
Speaker 2: much of it would you invest in South Africa at
Speaker 2: the moment? Such an interesting question. Also the cloud Play outage.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you were affected by this in one way
Speaker 2: or another. At least one of the big South African
Speaker 2: news sites was down earlier today as a result of
Speaker 2: this outage. And when cloud Player goes down, that's about
Speaker 2: twenty percent of the world's web traffic. It does seem
Speaker 2: to me that you can get into a position where
Speaker 2: because of the way that economics works, because having one
Speaker 2: operator or one or two operators can make it cheaper
Speaker 2: for everybody. Think Amazon Web Services. What that means is
Speaker 2: when one goes down, well, a big chunk of the
Speaker 2: web goes down. We'll talk through the economics of that
Speaker 2: with Duncan McLeod from tech Central later and Professor David
Speaker 2: bach is the president of the IMD Business School. He's
Speaker 2: actually in town at the moment. He's in Cape Down
Speaker 2: and we'll be talking about the role there. We'll talk
Speaker 2: about what CEOs need to learn as well. Looking forward
Speaker 2: to all of that tonight. You know the number O
Speaker 2: double one double A three oh seven two two one
Speaker 2: four four six O five six seven and voice notes
Speaker 2: of course on seven two seven oh two one seven
Speaker 2: oh two.
Speaker 3: The Lanely Show with Stephen crutis live on ninety two
Speaker 3: point seven and one o six f M.
Speaker 2: We're streaming on the Prime Media.
Speaker 1: Plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.
Speaker 2: But I've talked today about a story that was published
Speaker 2: in Daily Maverick this morning around the leader of the
Speaker 2: DA John Stiernhysen. For me, those of two big facts
Speaker 2: to the story. The one is that there was a
Speaker 2: defaultudgment against them for one hundred and fifty thousand rounds
Speaker 2: worth of credit card debt, and I know arguments can
Speaker 2: go in lots of directions here as a politician, sort
Speaker 2: of private finances anything to do with the rest of
Speaker 2: us well, I mean the Constitution says very clearly that
Speaker 2: if you're a bankrupt you cannot be a member of Parliament,
Speaker 2: so I think already there's a kind of principle there.
Speaker 2: There would also, I think, be an argument that if
Speaker 2: you can't manage your own money, can you manage anyone else's.
Speaker 2: And then I suppose, just the realities of our politics
Speaker 2: if it were an ANCMP, what would DA people be
Speaker 2: saying anything about it or not would be one of
Speaker 2: the tests. The other big fact, which may I think
Speaker 2: come to be more important, is that to me still
Speaker 2: not fully explain firing of Dion George from the National
Speaker 2: Coalition from the government. He was the Environmental Affairs Minister.
Speaker 2: Removed very suddenly, it seems at the request of the DA.
Speaker 2: They're the right to do, that's the way the coalition works.
Speaker 2: They have a replacement there, Aviliokamp, and there's been a
Speaker 2: lot of commentary around it. Deon George, I haven't seen
Speaker 2: him do any interviews. I know he's given one or
Speaker 2: two quotes to various media organizations, but I haven't seen
Speaker 2: more than that. But the suggestion in Daily Maverick, and
Speaker 2: I take it incredibly seriously, obviously I have my own
Speaker 2: relationship with them, is that it seems that Deon George,
Speaker 2: as the head of finance for the DA, had to
Speaker 2: request Seohn Stephen Hasen give his DA credit card back
Speaker 2: basically the expenses couldn't be managed or whatever it was,
Speaker 2: and that would suggest then that he was mismanaging a
Speaker 2: DA credit card. Now, if it turns out, and I
Speaker 2: don't think we're at this point yet, but if it
Speaker 2: turns out that John stein Hazen took action against Deon
Speaker 2: George and the coalition because of something Deon George had
Speaker 2: done in the DA, and possibly something that was done
Speaker 2: quite rightly because Denasen couldn't manage his own money, well,
Speaker 2: then that I think is going to be a very
Speaker 2: important factor, and that might be the real story here,
Speaker 2: because that would rarely be a very interesting thing. I
Speaker 2: think it's too soon to say that at this point,
Speaker 2: but I'll be very interested in your view. Seven two
Speaker 2: seven O two one seven O two The.
Speaker 3: Money Show on seven Monday to Friday, six to eight PM.
Speaker 2: Wellcome, I'm saying today it's headline earnings per share for
Speaker 2: the six months to the end of September by over
Speaker 2: sixteen percent. It's saw a nearly eight percent rise in
Speaker 2: mobile service revenue. Fiber related revenue was up by twelve percent.
Speaker 2: Non Colle equaled. Lamini is the group chief financial officer
Speaker 2: of Telcom. Non collell equal. Good evening and thank you
Speaker 2: for your time. Your mobile business has great momentum. You
Speaker 2: increased your prepaid subscribers by nine percent. Where is that
Speaker 2: growth coming from us?
Speaker 4: Seven? And good evening to your listeners. Indeed, it's been
Speaker 4: a great six month for US as album where we
Speaker 4: have seen our performance reflecting the business generating quality innings
Speaker 4: and years, largely coming from our prepaid strategy and linking
Speaker 4: to our data lets strategy. So if you look at
Speaker 4: the prepaid part of the business, it's been driving significant
Speaker 4: growth and it's coming from us ensuring that we give
Speaker 4: good value propositions to our customers across the country and
Speaker 4: that has helped to see the growth that we are
Speaker 4: referring to today.
Speaker 2: MTN and Veroticom both reported lower revenue from prepaid customers.
Speaker 2: Are you taking questions? Are you taking customers from them.
Speaker 4: If this could run over a good twelve consecutive courses,
Speaker 4: as Stiven, indeed, where we've let the market in this
Speaker 4: regard with better performance through and through and again it's
Speaker 4: a competitive environment and the customer is always going to
Speaker 4: look to where there's value for money, and we think
Speaker 4: our value propositions have been good for our client base
Speaker 4: for us to get this outcome.
Speaker 2: Your revenue from fiber is up strongly too, and you've
Speaker 2: moved into that space is quite aggressively. Are you expecting
Speaker 2: a lot more growth there? I mean, there's still a
Speaker 2: lot of the country that doesn't have fiber to the home.
Speaker 4: There are great opportunities to continue and we've invested in
Speaker 4: fiber over a very very long time and we've got
Speaker 4: the largest footprint across the country. And for us, it's
Speaker 4: going to be how we make it available for all
Speaker 4: that requires it and that can utilize it. So we
Speaker 4: do believe there are still opportunities to monetize more fiber
Speaker 4: across the country Stiven.
Speaker 2: I mean the big space obviously would be moving into
Speaker 2: township areas and probably after that rural areas. But I
Speaker 2: would imagine there are plenty of ways to make money
Speaker 2: in that market.
Speaker 4: Yes, our strategy includes us expanding regionally and making sure
Speaker 4: that we cover as much as possible across all the provinces.
Speaker 4: But as you can understand, the current three big cities
Speaker 4: like your Durban, your western case may well be looking situated.
Speaker 4: So there is opportunity to do more in the townships
Speaker 4: and to do more in the rural areas, and our
Speaker 4: regional strategy is driving that approach so that we can
Speaker 4: see more people getting connected and deriving impact to the business.
Speaker 2: The massive Votercom deal, I think is obviously about to
Speaker 2: be approved. They will be investing strongly in that field too.
Speaker 2: Is that going to put pressure on your pricing that
Speaker 2: competition and I think it will be quite strong competition.
Speaker 4: We have been watching that space and I think from
Speaker 4: our perspective, we will continue to work to defend the
Speaker 4: market that we have. And yes, they would be implementing
Speaker 4: their own strategies to make sure that the massive deal
Speaker 4: carries forward.
Speaker 5: We will continue with our.
Speaker 4: Strategy for our own growth, with the data led strategy,
Speaker 4: and we do appreciate that students, it will continue to
Speaker 4: be a competitive environment and there could be impact from
Speaker 4: that deal, but we think we've got our own strategies
Speaker 4: to continue delivering our own growth.
Speaker 2: You have a task team that's been looking at the
Speaker 2: situation at BCX. It reported back, it's made some suggestions.
Speaker 2: Are you finally seeing some good changes there? I mean,
Speaker 2: you've given it quite a lot of attention.
Speaker 5: As lutely.
Speaker 4: So if you look at quarter on quarter reported performance
Speaker 4: on BCX, we've seen remarkable improvement from the quarter one
Speaker 4: performance to quarter two. Much as the revenue went backwards
Speaker 4: by about four point four percent, overall, we saw an
Speaker 4: improvement in margins at nine point nine percent, and really
Speaker 4: that has been driven by ensuring that they continue to
Speaker 4: look for revenue opportunities.
Speaker 2: But from the.
Speaker 4: Cost perspective, there's been a concerted effort to ensure that
Speaker 4: they deliver the revenue at the most efficient levels. Of course,
Speaker 4: so there is a lot of work we're doing in BUSX,
Speaker 4: and it's an integral part of the one Telecom strategy
Speaker 4: in terms of the client base that it has to serve.
Speaker 4: But again, if you look at bus X, I think
Speaker 4: we must also appreciate that the overall industry is going
Speaker 4: through various challenges. If you just look in general the
Speaker 4: IT industry, and we are then focusing on how to
Speaker 4: ensure that we continue to grow in the spaces that
Speaker 4: we are peraiting in.
Speaker 2: I mean, you say in that sector client so corporate,
Speaker 2: they're not investing in it at the moment. I was
Speaker 2: a bit surprised because I think for many people, your
Speaker 2: IT network has to be competitive. Why are people not investing?
Speaker 2: Are they waiting to see what happens? I mean, are
Speaker 2: they waiting to see sort of which AI model or
Speaker 2: something takes over, or they're just taking a breath before
Speaker 2: they decide what to do next.
Speaker 4: Various corporates stiven are going through the same processes we're
Speaker 4: going through in terms of cost optimization. So it's not
Speaker 4: only not investing, it's also trying to make sure they
Speaker 4: optimize their cost structures in each of the IT spend
Speaker 4: that they are driving, so that is showing impact. But
Speaker 4: you also will appreciate that there is a lot of
Speaker 4: economic impact on various corporates that is going to make
Speaker 4: them not to invest as much as they may well
Speaker 4: have done in the past or wished for. But also
Speaker 4: I think the move that we are seeing in the
Speaker 4: IT space with the AI the cloud is changing the
Speaker 4: environment quite significantly and driving very different strategies in terms
Speaker 4: of how they invest, way, the way they invest and
Speaker 4: how much they invest.
Speaker 2: Non color Eco Lemini, thank you very much, the group
Speaker 2: chief financial officer of Telcom. That's all the money show.
Speaker 2: Sixty eight pm, nineteen minutes after sexual Santon quite busy
Speaker 2: tonight B twenty formally kicking off at the same time
Speaker 2: the President Sarahramapulsa hosting CEOs at a G twenty outreach program.
Speaker 2: Local Connel and Tambo is the e WN reporter at
Speaker 2: that event. This evening Loco Kanye good evening. We can
Speaker 2: see how much interest there is in all of the
Speaker 2: business events in Santa tonight. I imagine they'll be quite
Speaker 2: a a few CEOs for the President.
Speaker 5: They pertainly are good evening to you, Stephen and Za
Speaker 5: listeners as well. The President, in fact, Stephen, even before
Speaker 5: we get to this particular event, has had quite a
Speaker 5: jam packed program today. On his diary, He's been to
Speaker 5: the opening of a mind, He's received the Africa Expert
Speaker 5: Panel reports when it comes to the issue of jet
Speaker 5: on the African continent. So he really has had quite
Speaker 5: a busy day and it seems a lot of that
Speaker 5: really is just touching base with the corporate secup and
Speaker 5: just as you rightly rightfully mentioned, we've got the CEOs
Speaker 5: in this particular room here ad in Besteg just down
Speaker 5: the road from our offices, We've got you know, the
Speaker 5: financial services sector CEOs from there, the banking sector. We
Speaker 5: have the Canny Fieka from APPS. We have Commercial Muglia
Speaker 5: from Investec. We have Pritticy Turners who who is a
Speaker 5: good friend of the show that who is a special
Speaker 5: envoid to the US. So really quite the mix as well, Steven,
Speaker 5: in terms of the different industries that are represented within
Speaker 5: the corporate sector. Who are here, They've all just come
Speaker 5: into the room. Now think the only person who're really
Speaker 5: waiting for is the man of the hour. Prisons tild
Speaker 5: them apart right like I said, because you've had such
Speaker 5: a busy day, we are expecting him to run a
Speaker 5: little late. But the minute they do let him into
Speaker 5: the room as well, that program will get underway.
Speaker 2: Do we know what he's going to be focusing on.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been fascinated, Knako Kanya by how the President,
Speaker 2: how the government he leads, has been getting a lot
Speaker 2: closer to business. In the last few months. We see
Speaker 2: a bigger role for the private sector in providing what
Speaker 2: were previously government sectors or just kind of helping out,
Speaker 2: whether it's as more trans net or whatever. Then we've
Speaker 2: really seen before.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I had a.
Speaker 5: Conversation with some of the people in the room, Stephen,
Speaker 5: just trying to get a sense about what this Workington
Speaker 5: is going to be about and what's on the agenda,
Speaker 5: and from what I gathered, it really is just trying
Speaker 5: to drive investments. It's investments, investments, investments. How do we
Speaker 5: upscale what we already have, a lot of the people
Speaker 5: that are in the room, like I said, from the
Speaker 5: various industries, mining, manufacturing, the financial services sectum, are people
Speaker 5: that already have projects, you know, bankable projects with government.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 5: And really the question is how do we upscale that
Speaker 5: so it's in an inward perspective and then an outward perspective,
Speaker 5: how do we get them to invest more on the
Speaker 5: African continent and then how again do we make sure
Speaker 5: that that materializes into South Africa as well. So it
Speaker 5: really is just another push for investment. Again, even the
Speaker 5: people that are in the room of people that already
Speaker 5: have big investments, but government really wants to squeeze out
Speaker 5: a little more that we suspect they still have. So
Speaker 5: it's just those conversations about what is still possible would
Speaker 5: be a private sector as well as the public sector,
Speaker 5: you know better than the most Stephen, the conversations that
Speaker 5: we've had about PPPs, the private public partnerships, so that
Speaker 5: those conversations between governments and corporate about the project upscaling
Speaker 5: projects in electricity, so your your network industries, your electricity,
Speaker 5: your water project, you know, making sure that the banking
Speaker 5: services are efficient so that we're able to do business
Speaker 5: across the entire continent. And so those are the sort
Speaker 5: of conversations that we're hoping we will see. We will
Speaker 5: unfortunately not be a part of and privy to the
Speaker 5: entire conversation, but we will have an address by President
Speaker 5: sort Amposa, who again Stephen will give us I guess
Speaker 5: his line of thinking and where he is and what appetite,
Speaker 5: get a sense of the appetite that there is for
Speaker 5: you know, more projects between public and in private, and
Speaker 5: then of course, so they'll continue with their conversations.
Speaker 2: Knockocnyon Tumble, thank you very much. Indeed, the EWN reporter
Speaker 2: at that event at invest tonight with the CEOs and
Speaker 2: the President looking forward to your reporting as we go
Speaker 2: through the evening together. So we have the B twenty
Speaker 2: kicking off. There's the event with the President. Earlier this
Speaker 2: morning I was at the Bloomberg Africa Business Summit and
Speaker 2: the international relations mister Ronald Lamla he was there. He
Speaker 2: came out pretty strongly against the US boycott of the
Speaker 2: G twenty, he said at the event this weekend and
Speaker 2: needed to show that the rest of the world could
Speaker 2: get along without the US, and it certainly seemed to
Speaker 2: me that the turne towards the US is changing. One
Speaker 2: of the other discussions at the Bloomberg event today was
Speaker 2: about investment. One of the questions is where would you
Speaker 2: invest a million rand. It's a fascinating question if you
Speaker 2: think about it. If you had a million round to
Speaker 2: invest right now, which part of the world would you
Speaker 2: put it in? Which sector would you put it in.
Speaker 2: One of the panelists was Chantelle Marx, the head of
Speaker 2: research at F and B Wealth and Investments. I asked
Speaker 2: her she would invest a million round, Well, I think
Speaker 2: you need to take.
Speaker 8: A balanced approach, so you would want some offshore exposure,
Speaker 8: but locally there is a lot of value at the moment,
Speaker 8: I think particularly in some of the unloved sectors that
Speaker 8: are say INC specific so South African Bank, South African retailers.
Speaker 9: Maybe skip the clothing.
Speaker 10: Retailers for now, but I think keep some powdered right
Speaker 10: to invest there and then offshore. I think take the
Speaker 10: opportunity in some of these cell offs and invest in
Speaker 10: some of the thematics that.
Speaker 2: You may have missed. There's been a lot of good
Speaker 2: news around South Africa Inc. In the last week, the upgrade,
Speaker 2: getting off the grade list, all of that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: If that continues, presumably you do want to have quite
Speaker 2: a lot of exposure to South Africa averment.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely so.
Speaker 10: I think that you're seeing the positive news.
Speaker 8: Reflected in bond yields that have come down rapidly, and
Speaker 8: you're seeing it reflected in the rand.
Speaker 10: You're not seeing it in South African equity prices, perhaps
Speaker 10: in some smaller pockets, but the overall essay Inc. Theme
Speaker 10: still is very under owned and expery cheap.
Speaker 2: The true letters missing from this entire conversation. The one
Speaker 2: is A and the other is I. You're not going
Speaker 2: to put your money there for the moment.
Speaker 8: Yeah, So I think that this corrective Salov that we
Speaker 8: are seeing right now will offer us opportunities over time.
Speaker 8: I wouldn't want to be an unprofitable text, so no
Speaker 8: pie in the sky for me, thank you very much.
Speaker 8: But I think that there will be opportunities perhaps on
Speaker 8: the periphery as well. Companies that are difficult to displace.
Speaker 8: I'll look for something a little bit more diversified. I
Speaker 8: think in the mag seven something like Microsoft and Amazon
Speaker 8: and Alphabet stands out for me.
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit skeptical that the chips, for.
Speaker 8: Example, that we're using today are the stuff that we're
Speaker 8: going to be using in forty years time.
Speaker 2: Chantel Marks there the head of research to different be
Speaker 2: Wealth and Investments are speaking to her at the Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Africa business sum at all more accurately in the doorway,
Speaker 2: I'll be Bloomberg Africa business side, no money show. Twenty
Speaker 2: five minutes after six of the time, Ryan Hill has
Speaker 2: head of Fundamental all Sales at ABS to CIB Ryan,
Speaker 2: good evening to you. Let's start with Telcommon. Certainly it
Speaker 2: seemed to me to be quite a strong update.
Speaker 11: Yeah, thanks Eving Stephen. Indeed, market quite like those numbers.
Speaker 11: Stock ended up about two percent. I think operating profit
Speaker 11: tracking quite whid ahead of consensus, and it's likely that
Speaker 11: we might even see some earnings upgrades come through from
Speaker 11: the consensus for FY twenty six. In fact, I think
Speaker 11: the other big positive was the fact that their mobile
Speaker 11: growth was much higher than the market was expecting. In fact,
Speaker 11: it appears to have been underpinned by what looked like
Speaker 11: double digit data revenue growth, which was quite quid ahead
Speaker 11: of their peer group as well. So yeah, market quite
Speaker 11: happy about those numbers.
Speaker 2: And it seems particularly with mobile, with mobile revenue, it
Speaker 2: seems to be very consistent in the prepaid space. They've
Speaker 2: been building on this for quite a long time.
Speaker 11: I know, surprisingly so, right, especially in the context of
Speaker 11: the other operators that appeared to have slowed down quite meaningfully.
Speaker 11: So it might be that there's some base effect involved,
Speaker 11: but they could also just be perhaps consumers are attracted
Speaker 11: by some of the offers on the display out there
Speaker 11: at the.
Speaker 2: Moment, a big as a sale by the Acerman family
Speaker 2: of picking pay shares overnight, obviously that having an impact
Speaker 2: on the share price. But they're sort of pairing down
Speaker 2: their holding, I mean, in terms of control, they're downe
Speaker 2: to I think thirty seven percent now.
Speaker 11: Yeah, But again I think the market's actually going to
Speaker 11: take this in quite a positive way over time, simply
Speaker 11: because you've got enhanced liquidity available in the stock now.
Speaker 11: They're still quite a decent turnaround story on the go
Speaker 11: as well, of course, and they'll be benefiting from some
Speaker 11: of the distribution deals that they've entered into recent Dealser admittedly,
Speaker 11: we probably have to wait through until about twenty twenty
Speaker 11: seven to really see some of those benefits come through.
Speaker 11: The stock did close down, as you say, about six percent,
Speaker 11: but interestingly that's actually off the loads of the day,
Speaker 11: and I do think that again investors were taking advantage
Speaker 11: of some of the proof liquidity and the fact that
Speaker 11: the business is still training at a negative number actually
Speaker 11: when you're adjust for their holdings in boxes. So presumably
Speaker 11: we'll see some upside from here. And forty six percent
Speaker 11: was actually basically expected drive and basically fell to the
Speaker 11: bootball price of the family established yesterday.
Speaker 2: I'd be another tough day for them. They really have
Speaker 2: been through the walls in the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 11: I know it does seem as though it's struggling to
Speaker 11: sort of get a proper pale wing going.
Speaker 2: We looked around a bit.
Speaker 11: It seems as though it was pretty much in line
Speaker 11: with some of its European paper piers. There seems to
Speaker 11: be some sort of price pressure coming through in coded
Speaker 11: grades of graphic paper in Europe. You might have called
Speaker 11: it that market's historically been a bit weak, particularly of
Speaker 11: course with the transition to digital these days. I think
Speaker 11: it's a market that continues to suffer with a bit
Speaker 11: of downside risk. And of course there's also the Chinese
Speaker 11: which continue to build capacity in that space, and if
Speaker 11: their imports coming to Europe, we might see some further
Speaker 11: head wings there. But yeah, done, I think as much
Speaker 11: as seven percent on the day.
Speaker 2: And then platinum stocks also all down on the day,
Speaker 2: and I realized the platinum price has been a little
Speaker 2: low for the last week or so. I couldn't quite
Speaker 2: understand why, as so many shares were down.
Speaker 11: Yeah, frankly, Stephen, I think that's probably a case of
Speaker 11: some profit taking. I mean, these stocks have rallied very,
Speaker 11: very hard during twenty twenty five. In fact, on a
Speaker 11: recent Roadchhow was speaking with investors about what I've coined
Speaker 11: the so called Precious nine that now basically make up
Speaker 11: between twenty five and thirty percent of the index. So
Speaker 11: it's probably a healthy thing as we come into the
Speaker 11: end of the year for fund managers to take some
Speaker 11: profits off the table, and I think that's probably one
Speaker 11: of the reasons why we've got this assistant selling coming
Speaker 11: through in the gold and the PGM stocks for that matter.
Speaker 2: At the moment, Ryan Neill, thanks very much. Indeed head
Speaker 2: a fundamental sales at Abscess cib in a moment more
Speaker 2: on the cloud play outed the provider that caused so
Speaker 2: much drama on the Internet today simply because their services
Speaker 2: failed and that around twenty percent of worldwide web traffic
Speaker 2: wasn't able to work. Astonishing that this can still happen
Speaker 2: here with the money show's just gone sixth it.
Speaker 12: What's up Stephen on seven two seven oh two one
Speaker 12: seven oh two, Well, obviously very interesting questions about at
Speaker 12: what point is a politician's personal business and particularly their
Speaker 12: finances personal, and what point is it not?
Speaker 2: I know, it's the conversation that we'll have for a
Speaker 2: while and it'll go away and it'll come back, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll have it again on that sort of point. Though,
Speaker 2: I noticed that Melusa ge Gaba currently an MP for
Speaker 2: the ANC. I think he's a member of the National
Speaker 2: Executive Committee. He's also the chair or co chair of
Speaker 2: the Standing Committee on Defense. He was finally formally charged
Speaker 2: there I think the Palm Ridge Magistrates Court, joining some
Speaker 2: other people. Brian Malefe was one of them at Sibanga
Speaker 2: Gama was another related to the locomotives tender at trans
Speaker 2: Net and there's still so many issues that come out
Speaker 2: of that. But finally he's facing criminal charges. I know
Speaker 2: he denies wrongdoing and a noise has done, including at
Speaker 2: the Zondo Commission they were findings against him. The reason
Speaker 2: I bring it up is quite a few things will
Speaker 2: happen now. The one is I think he'll have to
Speaker 2: step back down from his and some of his positions.
Speaker 2: I don't know what will happen to his status as
Speaker 2: an MP. He might well have to step down from
Speaker 2: his position as the on the NEC of the A
Speaker 2: and Z and I think that's going to be quite interesting.
Speaker 2: But Salyer, you do get a sense that more and
Speaker 2: more cases are being enrolled by the NPA. I know
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on in the NPA at the moment,
Speaker 2: and so more and more we are seeing. Hopefully people
Speaker 2: being told that they do need to be held accountable,
Speaker 2: need to answer questions about what happened seven o two
Speaker 2: with email.
Speaker 12: Him on Stephen at seven o two dot co dot z.
Speaker 2: According to seven I don't know if you're going to
Speaker 2: dream of hitting the refresh button on your browserlike I
Speaker 2: think I am tonight simply because you can't get to
Speaker 2: the news site whatever it is that you are trying
Speaker 2: to get to, most of it because of something that
Speaker 2: happened with cloud Flare, which is a service that provides
Speaker 2: services to websites. Some of the big sites were down.
Speaker 2: I know Deli, Maverick was x was unavailable in some places.
Speaker 2: Chat GPT was unavailable in other places. That depend sort
Speaker 2: of on where you are. As always, when this happens,
Speaker 2: we learned quite a lot about how the interweb actually works.
Speaker 2: Duncan Mcloud's founder and editor at tech Central dots Saday Duncan.
Speaker 2: Good evening a cloud Flare. I mean it's a big company.
Speaker 2: I think they managed twenty percent of global web traffic.
Speaker 2: I mean, how could they let this happen.
Speaker 6: It's a very good question, Stephen, because this is the
Speaker 6: company that many websites turned to to provide stability. They
Speaker 6: market themselves as a cloud infrastructure company that really helps
Speaker 6: stabilize Internet services. So do you think we're not supposed
Speaker 6: to happen? And this incident is a big one, and
Speaker 6: it's been going on for several hours, hasn't been fully
Speaker 6: resolved yet. To know, most of the websites have real
Speaker 6: impacted got back online. They're still saying that they are
Speaker 6: experiencing issues that they're dealing with. They haven't disclosed what
Speaker 6: caused this problem yet. I think a lot of people
Speaker 6: interested in nothing what happened. They have said though, that
Speaker 6: they saw a spike in traffic to one of their
Speaker 6: cloud data centers or to one of their servers. I'm
Speaker 6: not sure exact detail from which might point to some
Speaker 6: sort of nefarious activity, but that's just speculation on my part.
Speaker 6: We should have a full incident report, hopefully by tomorrow,
Speaker 6: and hopefully we'll get a better view on whether this
Speaker 6: was an internal employee pressing the wrong button in deploying
Speaker 6: some software into the cloud play infrastructure, or whether there
Speaker 6: was something more nefarious nefarious at play here. And we
Speaker 6: know that increasingly governments are playing in the space, and
Speaker 6: you know, the concern is that there could be a
Speaker 6: nation state active around this sort of thing. But that's
Speaker 6: all speculation of the stage. We should have a clearer
Speaker 6: picture about tomorrow exactly what happened would.
Speaker 2: Cause this incidet If you don't use cloud flare, are
Speaker 2: there many competitors? What I'm looking at, duncan And that's
Speaker 2: quite a strange question is how concentrated is this industry
Speaker 2: if we have one or two big providers that don't
Speaker 2: work properly, you know, I mean, does does does everything
Speaker 2: start to fall apart of it? Because this industry has
Speaker 2: been going for quite a long time. It's the kind
Speaker 2: of thing that can get concentrated exactly.
Speaker 6: And I think there are concerns that as we saw recently,
Speaker 6: I think earlier this year or late last year with
Speaker 6: the crowd strike incident that led to the blue screen
Speaker 6: of death appearing on millions of Windows computers around the world.
Speaker 6: That and and that was an employee prety hitting the
Speaker 6: wrong button. You know, there's there's there's real questions that
Speaker 6: need to be asked about whether we are centralizing our.
Speaker 2: I T infrastructure too much.
Speaker 6: You know, Big tech is involved in putting up all
Speaker 6: these AI data centers at the moment. You know, everyone
Speaker 6: is moving to cloud computing, big corporate South Africa and
Speaker 6: moving a lot of their on premise of servers into
Speaker 6: the cloud. And you know, the term digital migration has
Speaker 6: become popular. It really refers to how companies are deploying
Speaker 6: infrastructure in the cloud. But these are centralized data centers,
Speaker 6: and things can go wrong. And when they do go wrong,
Speaker 6: and when they are heavily centralized like this, the results
Speaker 6: can be quite catastrophic.
Speaker 2: I mean, the irony is unbelievable. The whole point of
Speaker 2: the Internet, according to the original designers. I don't really
Speaker 2: want to remember that it was darker from the US
Speaker 2: Department of Defense, But the whole point of it was
Speaker 2: that it was going to be decentralized.
Speaker 6: Yes, it resupposed to. It was built to withstand a
Speaker 6: nuclear war. Yet here is one service provider bringing down
Speaker 6: twenty percent of the Internet all on its own. One
Speaker 6: has to wonder whether this is all getting too centralized.
Speaker 2: Do the owners of sites have recourse? I imagine it
Speaker 2: depends on your contract with your particular content. There might
Speaker 2: be different levels of contract. You might pay more and
Speaker 2: have more recourse, all sorts of things like that. So
Speaker 2: it could be a very case specific.
Speaker 6: Could be I haven't looked at cant terms and conditions
Speaker 6: that I'm sure it's written in there that if there
Speaker 6: is an incident that they can't be unliable. Certainly, I
Speaker 6: think for most websites there it will be no recourse.
Speaker 6: Maybe if you're a very very large customer that plays
Speaker 6: them a huge amount of money, maybe that some recourse.
Speaker 6: Maybe your terms and conditions with them are different to
Speaker 6: to most people. But generally speaking, though, I don't think
Speaker 6: there'll be any recourse.
Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone's been tracking this. I'm sure
Speaker 2: somewhere there is the ultimate kind of nerdish but wonderful
Speaker 2: website that tracks it to see how often sites are
Speaker 2: going down compared to how when they go in the past.
Speaker 2: If there were higher levels of concentration, it may happen
Speaker 2: less often, but each time it happens it affects more sites.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm sure someone is trying somewhere. I haven't seen
Speaker 6: the day to myself, but it'd be interesting to see
Speaker 6: it for sure. I don't know the answer to that question.
Speaker 2: Duncan McLoud really appreciate the time. Thank you, Founder and
Speaker 2: editor at tech Central dot dot Z day, so many
Speaker 2: interesting questions that come out of all of this, and
Speaker 2: I imagine it will be quite a tough day at
Speaker 2: cloud Flay.
Speaker 13: The money shore with Cleveland Cruts. He is brought to
Speaker 13: you by absas cib taps as are ready at FSB.
Speaker 2: Seven minutes now to seven the time well, the B
Speaker 2: twenty starting tonight, the G twenty itself on Saturday. We've
Speaker 2: got the tariffs imposed by the Trump administration. Geopolitics suddenly
Speaker 2: becoming well more and more important to anyone running a business.
Speaker 2: Professor David Bach is the president of the IMD Business School.
Speaker 2: They've got a big innovation cub in Cape Town is
Speaker 2: also Nesday Professor of Strategy and Political Economy. David, good evening,
Speaker 2: Thanks for your time. I know it's a busy trip.
Speaker 2: The geopolitical picture's got so complicated so quick quickly. How
Speaker 2: much harder is it now for a CEO to try
Speaker 2: and navigate all of this?
Speaker 14: Much harder for sure. Keep in mind that a lot
Speaker 14: of CEOs, certainly in the West, have developed most of
Speaker 14: their careers in the world in which globalization was a
Speaker 14: one way street and markets seemed to be coming closer
Speaker 14: and closer together, and cost of capital was going down
Speaker 14: and you could rely on allies. And it's a very
Speaker 14: different world from the one that they're finding themselves in now.
Speaker 2: Could leaders' CEOs from Africa actually because of that, be
Speaker 2: in a better place? I mean, so many of our
Speaker 2: CEOs come from so many diverse backgrounds. Many of them
Speaker 2: would be running businesses that have had to overcome huge
Speaker 2: obstacles to keep going. They also, particularly in Southern Africa,
Speaker 2: deal with really diverse workforces. They're used to leading people
Speaker 2: from very different parts of a society.
Speaker 14: I absolutely think so. Look, I think leaders on the
Speaker 14: continent understand that it's very difficult to separate business and politics,
Speaker 14: that business always has a social role in addition to
Speaker 14: an economic one. They're used to uncertainty. They are familiar
Speaker 14: with institutions that are perhaps weak or less predictable, and
Speaker 14: so I do think that they have developed some skills
Speaker 14: or their careers that could serve them well in this
Speaker 14: current environment.
Speaker 2: I mean, you would wonder actually if this is going
Speaker 2: to be quite a tough time for waste in business
Speaker 2: just from a leadership perspective.
Speaker 14: Oh, absolutely, We're seeing them struggling with the idea that
Speaker 14: suddenly it's no longer about maximizing efficiency, but it's about
Speaker 14: resilience and ensuring you can continue to serve your customers
Speaker 14: no matter what the world throws at you. Obviously, leaders
Speaker 14: are adapting, companies are developing those capabilities, but it takes
Speaker 14: some time. Until recently, we're still at a point where
Speaker 14: people thought, well, we're about to go back to the
Speaker 14: world as.
Speaker 11: We knew it.
Speaker 14: You know, the pandemic is behind us. But I think
Speaker 14: now leaders are realizing, particularly the second Trump administration, ongoing conflicts,
Speaker 14: the escalation between the US and China, we're just not
Speaker 14: going to go back to the world that they remember
Speaker 14: from say twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: You're investing quite heavily in Africa, Yeah, particularly in Cape John,
Speaker 2: Why are you putting money here at this particular moment.
Speaker 2: I mean, are you seeing a lot of potential for growth? Absolutely?
Speaker 7: So.
Speaker 14: We have now about ten percent of our staff based
Speaker 14: in Cape Town. They are technologists, web developers. They support
Speaker 14: us with many of our online programs. We're just really
Speaker 14: really excited about the talent, not just the technical skills,
Speaker 14: but also the entrepreneurial mindset. Some of the things that
Speaker 14: you and I just spoke about in terms of resilience
Speaker 14: and adaptability. You know, folks who are mission focused, they're
Speaker 14: in the same time zone English native speakers. It's a really,
Speaker 14: really great group of people to work with and they've
Speaker 14: been helping us expand our pack globally. And of course
Speaker 14: we're working with a number of African enterprises. So we're
Speaker 14: really bullish about the continent, the talent here and the prospects.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously some things still need to change to
Speaker 2: make it easier for you and colleagues to invest. We've
Speaker 2: been talking about a sort of week of good news
Speaker 2: in South Africa. We had a ratings upgrade from S
Speaker 2: and P Global and things like that. But I would
Speaker 2: imagine you would probably join me in saying, still quite
Speaker 2: a lot for government to do.
Speaker 14: Oh, there's no question. And you know we're a very
Speaker 14: small enterprise and we don't do manufacturing. These colleagues are
Speaker 14: helping us with digital products and services. But the opportunity
Speaker 14: is there. Africa is absolutely pivotal. It's youthful population, it's resources,
Speaker 14: the opportunities for expanding trade within Africa and this current context.
Speaker 14: But for that, government, business and civil society must work together.
Speaker 9: I think you're right.
Speaker 14: There's some hopeful science, but there's so much work to
Speaker 14: be done, and there's no question.
Speaker 2: Everyone's been talking about AI for the last kind of
Speaker 2: eighteen months now, though obviously if you look at prices
Speaker 2: in the US stock prices, there seems to be a
Speaker 2: little bit of a pullback early days. To say that,
Speaker 2: it seems for the most part, all this does is
Speaker 2: make business decisions a lot more complicated because you don't
Speaker 2: really know how things are going to change. And if
Speaker 2: I were leading an enterprise that was even at all
Speaker 2: exposed to this, I'll probably be wanting to dip my
Speaker 2: toes in, but I don't know how much further I
Speaker 2: would go because I just don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I think you really have to differentiate between the
Speaker 14: companies pouring literally tens of billions into building data centers.
Speaker 14: You know, those are some really risky bets at this point,
Speaker 14: and you're seeing the correction in the market. But differentiate
Speaker 14: between that and all of the users of AI systems,
Speaker 14: and those are well advised to experiment, to build capabilities
Speaker 14: to upscale their workforce because we don't know which large
Speaker 14: language model is going to win, or which set of
Speaker 14: models are going to win, and who's ultimately going to
Speaker 14: have the best technology. But what we do know is
Speaker 14: that AI is here to stay and it's going to
Speaker 14: change the way businesses operate. And so at the very least,
Speaker 14: to make sure that you learn and your team learns,
Speaker 14: and you get to experiment and innovate.
Speaker 2: You know, you've got to be part of it. The
Speaker 2: syllabi that you run at IMD Business School, have they
Speaker 2: changed a lot of the last ten years? Do you
Speaker 2: think the next ten years Actually, a student studying in
Speaker 2: ten year's time at IMD won't recognize the syllabus from today. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I do think so.
Speaker 14: I mean, there are a couple of things that are
Speaker 14: certainly constant. We put a lot of emphasis on leadership,
Speaker 14: on response toble leadership, the importance of knowing yourself as
Speaker 14: a precondition for being able to lead others. That has
Speaker 14: not changed. We continue to emphasize, as we did ten
Speaker 14: years ago and will be ten years from now, that
Speaker 14: business operates in the social and political context. But certainly,
Speaker 14: if you looked at our syllabus ten years ago, I
Speaker 14: think the conversation about sustainability was very much one about
Speaker 14: corporate social responsibility, and now it's about how do we
Speaker 14: future prove our enterprises in the context of planetary boundaries.
Speaker 14: Ten years ago, when it came to technology, they were
Speaker 14: very much sort of an earlier generation of digital technologies,
Speaker 14: and our syllabus now emphasizes AI a lot more, which
Speaker 14: opens up entirely new possibilities. Certainly, ten years ago we
Speaker 14: didn't scrutinize globalization.
Speaker 2: We sort of took it for granted.
Speaker 14: And now we emphasize a lot more geopolitical volatility. And
Speaker 14: so i'd expected ten years from now, certainly when it
Speaker 14: comes to sustainability, to technology, to politics, our syllabus will
Speaker 14: have evolved. But when it comes to the enduring qualities
Speaker 14: of leadership and good management, I would think that you
Speaker 14: would still recognize some of what we're doing right now.
Speaker 2: For visit David Bach, thanks so much for present m
Speaker 2: D Business School at seven o'clock.
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Credit on seven
Speaker 1: oh two. Let's walk little.
Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you
Speaker 2: by Abscess CIB. It's a registered fspeed nine minutes after seven.
Speaker 2: Good evening, plenty to come in the next little while.
Speaker 2: We'll speak to Quinela and Goguela, a senior Inequality analyst
Speaker 2: about the situation, relating that she had just share I
Speaker 2: should say Wilworth's I think finally people have found something
Speaker 2: at Wilworth that's too expensive to buy. Unfortunately it's the executive,
Speaker 2: says remuneration, and some shareholders rejecting a remuneration package and
Speaker 2: executive pay. So just interesting to look at that. And
Speaker 2: I'm always fascinated by shareholder activism. What does it take
Speaker 2: to get shareholders to do something? It can take quite
Speaker 2: a bit, actually, I sometimes feel we could do with
Speaker 2: a bit more activism, but maybe that's just me. Dr
Speaker 2: Tinder and Ding Wee. We'll hear from him Africa Focus
Speaker 2: in a moment and then also looking forward to speaking
Speaker 2: to Warren Ingram this evening talking about sports betting tonight
Speaker 2: in personal finance. Good to hear from you seven to
Speaker 2: seven oh two one seven oh two.
Speaker 3: The LNY Show with Stephen Krudis live on ninety two
Speaker 3: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime
Speaker 3: Media Plus NAP.
Speaker 1: And DStv channel eight five six.
Speaker 2: Well, we've had a lot of good news over the
Speaker 2: last few days. There was a positive medium to and
Speaker 2: budget policy statement. The rating is upgrade. All of it
Speaker 2: and if you speak to people in the kind of
Speaker 2: top one percent of the economy, they're all feeling quite cheaper.
Speaker 2: But of a dose of cold water this morning, though,
Speaker 2: from the SAKI survey the South African Chamber of Comments
Speaker 2: and Industry, speaking to actual business owners, what's going on
Speaker 2: in your world? Effectively, nearly half of them think trading
Speaker 2: conditions are going to get worse. Others still feeling very
Speaker 2: very in a very very tough position. I just thought
Speaker 2: that was important, an important dose of cold water. So
Speaker 2: while I'm as optimistic as the next one, I do
Speaker 2: just remind had to remind myself. And I suppose you
Speaker 2: might already know this better than I do. How what's
Speaker 2: happening at the top one percent means nothing to the
Speaker 2: actual real economy. What's actually happening to people in the
Speaker 2: rest of the economy. There is so much to look at.
Speaker 2: And yes there's good news. Yes, their ratings upgrade will
Speaker 2: be good news for all of us in the longer run. Yoah,
Speaker 2: that longer run can feel like a very long sometimes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I do think there's still so much more work to
Speaker 2: be done in our economy. Eleven after seven.
Speaker 12: Is on the Money Shows six to eight PM.
Speaker 2: Well, again we see shareholders pushing back over executive pay.
Speaker 2: This time at Wilworth, thirty seven percent of those who
Speaker 2: could vote in their AGM said no to the executive
Speaker 2: pay policy. Quinela and Googuela is a senior inequality analyst
Speaker 2: at just share Quinela, Good evening and thanks for your time.
Speaker 2: I mean, how often does this kind of thing happen?
Speaker 2: How often are we saying seeing seeing shareholders just saying
Speaker 2: no to something.
Speaker 7: Good evening and thank you very much for having us
Speaker 7: out of the first question. Are currently This is a
Speaker 7: trend that we have been observing, particularly at the listed entities.
Speaker 7: We usually track the top forty so over the years,
Speaker 7: we have been seeing our shareholders pushing back, voting against
Speaker 7: a boat the remuneration reports, muneration policies. I should say
Speaker 7: that not hitting that acquisite threshold of seventy five percent,
Speaker 7: which require such resolutions to pass, it helped been a
Speaker 7: trend and it has been ongoing.
Speaker 2: Is it usually executive pay? I mean that's the issue
Speaker 2: that gets to the headlines, But are there other things
Speaker 2: that that people rebel against? We saw I think it
Speaker 2: was was a bollo well, but we've seen one or
Speaker 2: two others that don't always executive pay.
Speaker 7: No, it depends on case by cases, but the executive
Speaker 7: pay remains like the key issue from it. Put it
Speaker 7: that way, I doways. Remember these votes often focused directly
Speaker 7: to the remuneration police and it is implementation and the
Speaker 7: large or maperial portion of such policies and their implementation
Speaker 7: relates to the executive pay. But also in this instance
Speaker 7: one can say the investors or shareholders might be also
Speaker 7: registering that distends with the remuneration governance of the company.
Speaker 7: But increasingly our stan there's an issue of pay fairness,
Speaker 7: uh and accountability, you know. So what we are actually
Speaker 7: seeing from our side, we think this revolved general revolves,
Speaker 7: this revolse reflect a broader freend which sholders with their
Speaker 7: non binding votes because remember currently there are votes are
Speaker 7: just advisory their main non binding. But I think they're
Speaker 7: exercising their votes to encourage discipline, particularly on how the
Speaker 7: boss managed executively, which is a key issue of alloded before.
Speaker 2: When shareholders do this, I mean I understand that the
Speaker 2: board had sort of tried to engage with shareholders beforehand.
Speaker 2: Is it usually kind of organized, I mean a shareholders
Speaker 2: organizing themselves, should they be a bit more organized perhaps.
Speaker 9: I think so.
Speaker 7: Then there's me no transparents on how these engagements takes place,
Speaker 7: because in some instances they will say that they will
Speaker 7: engage the shareholders if, who, when and how. Would never
Speaker 7: get that because there's like a great area on remuneration
Speaker 7: governance on that because all we know, or at least
Speaker 7: for the last few years, remuneration governance was governed at
Speaker 7: least by the King four. Now we know we're having
Speaker 7: the King five, the one that has been recent little introduced.
Speaker 7: Now it just says if you do not hit that's
Speaker 7: seventy five percent vote for the remuneration report or the
Speaker 7: implementation report, you must engage. If you engage how when,
Speaker 7: where in the room, or you just tell shareholders to write,
Speaker 7: which is the case now shoholders mast right, you know,
Speaker 7: so one you wouldn't really gage whether or not showholders
Speaker 7: are fellow organizing themselves, particularly big institutional investors. However, from
Speaker 7: us as activists shareholders, we have been trying to ring
Speaker 7: the bell part usually on issues relating to pay fairness,
Speaker 7: where we've been saying that at least asset managers asset
Speaker 7: owners should rather hold boards of these companies accountable for
Speaker 7: the excessive executive pay. When you are comparing itself with
Speaker 7: the salaries of those workers that are at the bottom
Speaker 7: of the pay scale, what you would find out is
Speaker 7: that these gaps are stuck and sometimes in most cases
Speaker 7: these from the generation pains. I'm not linked at all
Speaker 7: to company performance.
Speaker 2: Well, isn't that the thing? I mean, if a company
Speaker 2: is very successful and I could give you examples if
Speaker 2: I needed to, you know, no one, no one says
Speaker 2: I'm unhappy with what the capitac CEO is getting, what
Speaker 2: the shop right CEO is getting. It's when a company
Speaker 2: is not performing what is doing okay? But but I mean,
Speaker 2: clearly shale does feeling could be doing better.
Speaker 7: No, certainly it's not during that well seven to be honest,
Speaker 7: because the financial metrics, the only performance metric that they
Speaker 7: did well is the one relating to return on capital employees.
Speaker 7: When are also looking at other targets relating to our esg.
Speaker 7: Non financial performance measures such as like driving transformation, that
Speaker 7: they didn't do well on that idea. So these were
Speaker 7: the targets are said or twenty twenty two and other
Speaker 7: financial metrics relating to retents, the ability they are not
Speaker 7: they didn't do so well. And just to remind the
Speaker 7: viewers at home that even the currency of remuneration seven
Speaker 7: results from the vestume of the what they say is
Speaker 7: the final final trench of the sign on share A location.
Speaker 7: So it has nothing to do with performance of the
Speaker 7: company currently. Remember this share A sign on But I
Speaker 7: put it that way, it's a months close to forty
Speaker 7: million of the current remuneration of the CEO that was
Speaker 7: not linked lint naow on the current performance are metrics,
Speaker 7: but it is quite concerning, hence the pushbacks.
Speaker 2: Grenea, thank you so much. Cornelia and Gugela is the
Speaker 2: senior inequality analyst at just Share. Eighteen minutes after seven,
Speaker 2: Rotindo and Dinguie is next.
Speaker 1: Your Many show African business focus.
Speaker 2: Doctor Rotendo and Dingwe is the founding director of Tribe
Speaker 2: Africa Advisory author of the book Rumble in the Jungle
Speaker 2: Reloaded Houses. Rotendo, Steve don't got signing a deal with Zimbabwe.
Speaker 2: It's a two thousand kilometer pipeline from the Maybia. I
Speaker 2: mean there's so much potential here.
Speaker 15: Yeah, ve interes a lout of all countries Zimbabwe, but
Speaker 15: we've seen that. Look, Dan got the billionaire of one
Speaker 15: of the big billionaires of Africa has been made in
Speaker 15: key in Vespone, Namibia, Ethiopia, Ghana, and now he's focused
Speaker 15: on Zimbabwe. He was there that last week and invested
Speaker 15: in a one billion US dollar project. This is a
Speaker 15: pipeline of two thousand kilometers from Wilverspay and it's also
Speaker 15: related to infrastructure that will produce fertilizer, energy and cement.
Speaker 15: Zimbabwe itself has also been in the headlines for positive
Speaker 15: things well, I mean a few months ago, steven it
Speaker 15: was rated one of the top tourist destinations by Forbes.
Speaker 15: So it's definitely doing a lot of positive things. The
Speaker 15: question with Zimbabwe is obviously keeping the sustainability of it.
Speaker 15: But from a Dangoti perspective, a huge one billion dollar
Speaker 15: investment and that would just translate into infrastructure and production
Speaker 15: of fertilizer and obviously deal with the shortage of fuel
Speaker 15: and production of the continent. So a good story to
Speaker 15: have at this point in time for both Zimbabwe and Dungotti.
Speaker 2: I wonder how relatively speaking easier it is to build
Speaker 2: because that part of Namibia is sort of mostly a
Speaker 2: desert I presume it is, which may make it easier
Speaker 2: to protect too because the very few people there.
Speaker 15: The very few people there. But Ambi has also been
Speaker 15: standing up with regards to infrastructure, both presidents, especially when
Speaker 15: it comes to commodity related infrastructure. Stephen, There's been a
Speaker 15: lot of positive investments in that dieration. So I think
Speaker 15: they've got the capabilities and the I think the pipeline
Speaker 15: will terminate in Bloio. We're not Arara, which is the
Speaker 15: second biggest city in Zimbabwe. But still the positive story,
Speaker 15: this is fascinating. Ghana wants to scrap attacks on minerals exploration.
Speaker 15: They said that'll boost investments. I mean we talk about beneficiation, taxes,
Speaker 15: we talk about all sorts of things. Yeah, Ghana has
Speaker 15: gone in a completely different direction, a completely different direction.
Speaker 15: I mean Ghana one of the big gold producers on
Speaker 15: the continent. Stephen. This levey goes back twenty five years,
Speaker 15: so they want it's vat they want to scrap that off.
Speaker 15: And just to give you some stats, Stephen, just in
Speaker 15: terms of why they're trying to do this, not just
Speaker 15: to incentivize the local big corporates, but even the small
Speaker 15: scale players. In the last ten months, Stephen eight point
Speaker 15: one billion US dollars produced by small scale exporters of
Speaker 15: gold compared to corporates who only produced six point six billion.
Speaker 15: That's in the last ten months. Illegal gold smart gold
Speaker 15: smuggling steven in the last five years has reached to
Speaker 15: eleven billion US dollars, So there's a lot of money
Speaker 15: out there, and the leadership of Ghana is saying similar
Speaker 15: to Pekina Faso Ivory Coast in Kenya, they're saying, let's
Speaker 15: help in terms of creating incentive for guys to do
Speaker 15: it right and boost production. So it's a bold step
Speaker 15: but hopefully to produce a production in the right direction.
Speaker 2: It is a Tuesday, so I don't know if it's
Speaker 2: been really to talk about Guinness, but toleranm selling more
Speaker 2: more Guinness in all then Nigeria.
Speaker 15: Tolerm a Singapore multinational and it's owned, it has the
Speaker 15: right for the Guineas Nigeria's distribution. It's partnered. Obviously, Guiness
Speaker 15: is owned by Diagio and they have sold I think
Speaker 15: Toleram has taken over about fifty eight percent of the
Speaker 15: ownership of the local entity. So it's a big investment
Speaker 15: for them and they're focusing in the northern regions of Nigeria.
Speaker 2: DIAS is pulling out.
Speaker 15: Because they're saying, look, the devaluation of the naira, which
Speaker 15: was about seventy percent in the last year, is too
Speaker 15: significant for them to continue investing in there. So tolers
Speaker 15: Is picked it up. And it's always interesting, Stephen to
Speaker 15: see how you know, one men's meet is another men's
Speaker 15: poison in terms of multinational investment of the continent. But
Speaker 15: as it may be, the other players in the market,
Speaker 15: Haneyquin is still there, AB and BEV, but Tolerance is
Speaker 15: stepping up and investing significantly seeing guiness production, so not
Speaker 15: too early for those that prefer that alcoholic drink this
Speaker 15: time of the night.
Speaker 2: We talk about fintech all the time, all the time.
Speaker 2: In Malawi. It's growing, but there's also a question about
Speaker 2: whether it's actually a bit of an illusion.
Speaker 15: Yeah, so Malawi a small country as we know, but
Speaker 15: they've seen a record number of mobiles money subscriptions of
Speaker 15: twenty million. But I think this is a reality check
Speaker 15: and Stephen, you're right, there's a lot of hype and
Speaker 15: discussions around fintech and obviously it's a significant play in
Speaker 15: terms of where the continent is going espeliciitly from an
Speaker 15: inclusivity perspective, a fourteen percent increase in the single quarter
Speaker 15: with regards to people using fintech and people registrying, but
Speaker 15: they've also seen a decline in terms of utilization. So
Speaker 15: although registration has gone up, there's actually a decline in
Speaker 15: terms of usage, and this is probably related to people registring,
Speaker 15: but affordability as well as erratic concerns around a number
Speaker 15: of components. But the key thing is utilization. It's one
Speaker 15: thing to register, but you need money and product and
Speaker 15: transactions to happen. So it's a reality check as well,
Speaker 15: and I think that's the key thing just to reflect
Speaker 15: on with the growth of fintank on the continent.
Speaker 2: And then this is about borders and ambiguity. So Western
Speaker 2: Sahara so Ahari Republic very contested issue with Morocco. What
Speaker 2: happened in Morocco with Google Maps.
Speaker 15: So it's an interesting thing. I mean, we will use
Speaker 15: Google as to help us in terms of map and geographies,
Speaker 15: but in this case Morocco Western Sahara, as you know,
Speaker 15: was was previously a Spanish colony and there's for over
Speaker 15: for a number of years now going decades there's always
Speaker 15: a dispute between Morocco and Algeria with regards to who
Speaker 15: owns what is supporting that. But cut along story short, Stephen.
Speaker 15: When you're in Morocco and you look at the region
Speaker 15: of Western Sarah and Morocco, because they share border, Western
Speaker 15: Sahara is part of Morocco. Again, when you are in
Speaker 15: Western Sahara, then it's not part of Morocco. So it
Speaker 15: creates a very confusing dynamic with regards to the bigger picture.
Speaker 2: It's a bit like being in the northern States of
Speaker 2: the United States and it says Canada's the fifty first
Speaker 2: States or something.
Speaker 15: So that exactly that's it. So it creates a bit
Speaker 15: of a dilemma and a political conflict. And Google said, guys,
Speaker 15: that's always been the case, and obviously America is wided
Speaker 15: now and supporting Morocco, et cetera, et cetera. But it's
Speaker 15: a funny thing where by Google as a technology company
Speaker 15: has obviously said, god, we've adjusted the political dynamics from
Speaker 15: a software perspective, but it's sort what's happened in the ground.
Speaker 15: So it's a bit of controversy as well, but an
Speaker 15: interesting story to follow and you're looking at Google Maps
Speaker 15: the next time you're driving up into the mor western
Speaker 15: Sida region.
Speaker 2: Rotendo, thanks so much, really appreciate it, Doctor Ortendo. And
Speaker 2: dingwe the founding director of Tribe Africa Advisory show.
Speaker 9: Personal Finance with Warren Ingram.
Speaker 2: Warren Ingram as you know as a certified financial planner
Speaker 2: at Galileo Capital, and tonight we are talking about sports
Speaker 2: betting and Warren's sort of headline to it is that
Speaker 2: sports betting is not investing. It's a tax on hope.
Speaker 2: As always good to hear from you tonight, O double
Speaker 2: one double A three seven two two one four four
Speaker 2: six O five six seven and voice notes might be
Speaker 2: easier seven two seven oh two one seven oh two Warren,
Speaker 2: good evening, sports betting is not investing. It is a
Speaker 2: tax on hope. Very interesting statement to start.
Speaker 16: It's it's one of those things when we talk about
Speaker 16: sports betting that I think is quite polarizing, you know,
Speaker 16: and I guess it's always our job to be balanced.
Speaker 16: I don't think it's a case of saying to people, well,
Speaker 16: don't do this, it's terrible for you.
Speaker 9: You know, it's always bad.
Speaker 16: It's a case of saying, like like any entertainment where
Speaker 16: it costs money, and that that's what it is to me.
Speaker 16: It's entertainment. You know, it should be treated carefully and
Speaker 16: it should be understood. And if you're going to use
Speaker 16: your money, use it with knowledge and understanding. And if
Speaker 16: you understand that it's entertainment, then my hopefully my statement
Speaker 16: makes a little bit more sense. It's it's it's not investing.
Speaker 16: This isn't a way that you're going to get yourself
Speaker 16: out of financial trouble. You should treat this in exactly
Speaker 16: the same way as you would treat going to have
Speaker 16: a coffee or anything else. It's it might give you
Speaker 16: some enjoyment for a period of time, but after that
Speaker 16: the money's gone and and you carry on with your day.
Speaker 16: If you're using this as a way of kind of
Speaker 16: deploying money in, you know, in the anticipation that you're
Speaker 16: going to get yourself out of trouble, which is I
Speaker 16: think what does happen from time to time, then then
Speaker 16: it is a tax on hope. You know, you cannot
Speaker 16: hope that you get yourself out of financial trouble with
Speaker 16: a bet. It's that's not how the entire industry works,
Speaker 16: and it would be the same with gambling. You're not
Speaker 16: there to make money every single time, Otherwise there wouldn't
Speaker 16: be a sports betting industry.
Speaker 2: Okay. Part of this is about the idea that I
Speaker 2: know what is going to happen, so I know the
Speaker 2: spring Box are playing on Saturday, and I know there'll
Speaker 2: be another red card. Okay, that kind of feeling. Just
Speaker 2: use that example as a easily example. There's a kind
Speaker 2: of a feeling of control. I mean, is that part
Speaker 2: of this?
Speaker 15: It is?
Speaker 9: And I'm one of those.
Speaker 16: It seems like very rare people that doesn't appreciate the
Speaker 16: sport of soccer. But my office is full of Man
Speaker 16: United fans, can you believe it? And some of them
Speaker 16: have been fans since they were five or six years
Speaker 16: old and they are now forty, and they would argue
Speaker 16: that they are Man United experts and they know Man
Speaker 16: United better than anybody else in the world. I might
Speaker 16: be exaggerating a little bit, but if I ask them
Speaker 16: before the weekends games, who's going to win, it's almost
Speaker 16: inevitable that it's Man United, and they'll give me some
Speaker 16: fantastic reasons why. And if that was true, that they
Speaker 16: were that their team was going to win, every single
Speaker 16: time they played. Then Man United would be an unbeaten
Speaker 16: team for the last you know, thirty years, and history
Speaker 16: tells you that's simply not true. So what we realize
Speaker 16: is that fans, people who you know, are committed to
Speaker 16: a sport or a team, they believe they have a
Speaker 16: special edge because they have been watching their team, you know,
Speaker 16: glued as fans for years and years and years, and
Speaker 16: and so they know better than anybody else what their
Speaker 16: team's going to do and and and somehow, surprisingly it
Speaker 16: lands on the side of positive in most instances. And
Speaker 16: so they try and that faith and they are say, hope,
Speaker 16: into sports betting. They they willing to bet money on
Speaker 16: their team because they have insight. They feel they know
Speaker 16: better than everybody else what's going to happen, so that
Speaker 16: that isn't to be an absolute illusion of control. Somehow,
Speaker 16: I've got I've got more knowledge than than you, and
Speaker 16: I've got more knowledge than the other people who are betting,
Speaker 16: you know, and often they're supporting another team.
Speaker 9: And I'm going to make money out of this because
Speaker 9: I'm an expert.
Speaker 2: So the people who are doing the betting, you're Manchester
Speaker 2: United fan or arguably or kus of chiefs fan and
Speaker 2: have the same problem. They they are betting with their heart.
Speaker 2: What are the book makers doing?
Speaker 16: Yeah, and and so I think that's you know, that's
Speaker 16: maybe where where we need to have perspective when you're
Speaker 16: when you're putting money somewhere and and you know this
Speaker 16: is the money show, so and understand what you do
Speaker 16: with your money. And you know, if you're investing, you know,
Speaker 16: the job is to explain to you what you're doing
Speaker 16: with your money, whether you buying a share or unit trust.
Speaker 16: In this instance, when you're committing money to a bet,
Speaker 16: you're given odds. So someone's saying to you, if you
Speaker 16: put down, just for argument's sake, one hundred and fifty
Speaker 16: rand on a team winning, then I will pay you
Speaker 16: out your one hundred and fifty rand plus one hundred
Speaker 16: Ruand just as an example, Now, they're not giving you
Speaker 16: those odds in the hope that they're going to lose money.
Speaker 16: They're giving you those odds and the hope that they're
Speaker 16: going to make money. And the way that they calculate
Speaker 16: those odds is rather sophisticated. They're not just fans. These
Speaker 16: are companies that employ you know, very sophisticated algorithms built
Speaker 16: by data science mathematicians. They research their market incredibly deeply
Speaker 16: that they will research things that you and I can't
Speaker 16: even conceive that would relate to a sport. You know,
Speaker 16: forget about just the weather, but all the other conditions
Speaker 16: in the world that possibly could impact the outcome of
Speaker 16: a game. They will be studying and feeding that into
Speaker 16: their algorithms to give them the chances of a team
Speaker 16: coming up with a result, whether it's a win, a draw, whatever,
Speaker 16: whatever the deal is. On the other hand, what we've
Speaker 16: got is our belief that in our skill set and
Speaker 16: maybe our friendship circle or whatever we've read on social media,
Speaker 16: and then we place our bet. Now, in most instances,
Speaker 16: the odds are going to favor the person giving you
Speaker 16: the odds, in other words, the data scientists and the mathematicians,
Speaker 16: and so you are relying on luck to win and
Speaker 16: to make money out of that. If if that's if
Speaker 16: that's true, then then you need to be very careful
Speaker 16: about how you're going to place those bets and do
Speaker 16: you understand these odds correctly? And I think that's where
Speaker 16: where a lot of this can go wrong for people.
Speaker 16: If you you know, if if you're betting against the
Speaker 16: you know, a very sophisticated business. They're not they're not
Speaker 16: heating you. They've given you the odds that everything you
Speaker 16: need to know about the deal is known before the time.
Speaker 16: What you should be very honest and humble enough to
Speaker 16: say is that the likelihood is that they're going to
Speaker 16: win if I put this money down. They are not
Speaker 16: giving me these odds because they think I'm going to win,
Speaker 16: and I think a lot of people make that mistake
Speaker 16: and they still hope they're going to win.
Speaker 2: Okay, but at times I can hear the argument at
Speaker 2: times I do win, and doesn't that mean that I
Speaker 2: know what I'm doing?
Speaker 16: It does, But now we need to get back to
Speaker 16: behavioral science, to a little bit of psychology. So what happens,
Speaker 16: and it happens with investing as well, when people choose
Speaker 16: individual shares, or they choose cryptos, or they choose currency
Speaker 16: markets or derivatives or anything where prices can move very quickly,
Speaker 16: when they make an investment decision or bet, and in
Speaker 16: this instance we're talking about betting, and their bet lands
Speaker 16: correctly as they thought it would, then they will give
Speaker 16: you a very good reason as to why they're won.
Speaker 16: You know, and if it's me and I say I
Speaker 16: think the spring Box are going to Thrash Ireland on Saturday,
Speaker 16: and here all the reasons, and if I'm lucky enough
Speaker 16: that that's exactly what happens, I will be the Sunday
Speaker 16: Morning Hero and I'll give you all the reasons as
Speaker 16: to why that that worked out that way. However, if
Speaker 16: I make the same prediction and our bet money and
Speaker 16: things go wrong, we get two red cards and the
Speaker 16: weather is terrible and something happens and someone gets injured,
Speaker 16: then I would put that down to bad luck.
Speaker 9: It won't.
Speaker 16: It won't be because I made a mistake. And that's
Speaker 16: that psychology. It's not that you know, suddenly I'm crazy.
Speaker 16: That's simple psychology. We remember our bets with fondness, and
Speaker 16: we tend to forget our bets where we were wrong,
Speaker 16: and we start to blame that on other factors. It
Speaker 16: couldn't possibly be us. And and over time, you know,
Speaker 16: if we bet consistently, you know, week after week, over
Speaker 16: six or seven match series and we're right twice, we'll
Speaker 16: remember those wins and we'll forget the losses. You know,
Speaker 16: a year fo now, we'll only remember the winds and
Speaker 16: if we're betting consistently, that's pretty dangerous because now we
Speaker 16: start to believe in our skill and not the element
Speaker 16: of luck.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I mean, and this isn't this The problem
Speaker 2: is that you remember the winds And that's really strong psychological.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like strong psychologically. It's like when people
Speaker 2: remember being young and they hear music from when they
Speaker 2: were young and they think the world was better In
Speaker 2: South Africa, the world was not better, and yet people
Speaker 2: rarely believe it because of where they were at the
Speaker 2: time they were young. It's the same kind of thing.
Speaker 2: You remember that rush of victory and you you don't
Speaker 2: really remember anything else.
Speaker 9: Exactly.
Speaker 16: And so we you know, my favorite phrase to people
Speaker 16: who are who were lucky enough to choose a share
Speaker 16: that did incredibly well is don't confuse luck and skill.
Speaker 16: And so when when you're betting, you are absolutely riding
Speaker 16: on the element of luck. And and so when you
Speaker 16: are lucky enough to win, you need to make sure
Speaker 16: that you win with humility and understand that you were
Speaker 16: lucky and that you don't have, you know, some special
Speaker 16: insight that that now makes you way better than tens
Speaker 16: of thousands of other you know, people and data scientists
Speaker 16: and you know, very sophisticated computers and algorithms, et cetera.
Speaker 9: You were lucky.
Speaker 16: And and that's okay, I'm not a critique. It's just
Speaker 16: that you need to remind yourself that you are doing
Speaker 16: something for entertainment, and that's not that you have a
Speaker 16: special skill. There might be the very few people who
Speaker 16: are you know, mathematical geniuses and can work out odds
Speaker 16: to the thousandth percent of a fraction of a percent
Speaker 16: and figure out that sometimes the odds are wrong, and
Speaker 16: that might happen in very rare instances.
Speaker 9: But for the very vast majority of us.
Speaker 16: Even those that studied maths at school and university, we're
Speaker 16: always going to be lucky when we win, and we
Speaker 16: need to know that, especially when when we then start
Speaker 16: to accumulate those losses.
Speaker 2: Okay, there are also I suppose in every in everything,
Speaker 2: but particularly and there's some real costs. And it's not
Speaker 2: just about the money that you lose.
Speaker 16: Yeah, and I've noticed, you know, in the kind of
Speaker 16: broader media world now, you know, kind of commentary around
Speaker 16: around sports betting and what's being done with money, and
Speaker 16: and so I mean, the job here is for people
Speaker 16: to understand what is it costing you? If you're listening
Speaker 16: to this and you are one of those people that says,
Speaker 16: out of mind, I'm happy to put in five hundred
Speaker 16: random month, you know, and it's just a little flatter
Speaker 16: and it's a bit of fun.
Speaker 9: You know, if if you're in a strong.
Speaker 16: Financial position and five and random month is not making
Speaker 16: your credit card debt worse and help you know, getting
Speaker 16: the big personal loans and overdrafts, et cetera, then good
Speaker 16: for you.
Speaker 9: Carry on.
Speaker 16: And the context of that is it's money that you're
Speaker 16: prepared to spare on a coffee, and you're not doing
Speaker 16: it on a coffee. You're now doing it on sports betting.
Speaker 16: But if you are in financial trouble and you've got
Speaker 16: debts compounding against you workout that five hundred random month
Speaker 16: is actually getting you to six thousand round a year,
Speaker 16: And that six thousand round a year, what could you
Speaker 16: have done with it? Could that have got you out
Speaker 16: of the debt hole that you're in at the moment?
Speaker 16: And you know, I think a lot of the time
Speaker 16: I call it the small bet trap. So you know,
Speaker 16: I'm just going to take a quick flatter. I noticed
Speaker 16: the other day on my phone, Steven that now in
Speaker 16: my banking app, I can take a flatter on sports
Speaker 16: betting sites with small amounts of money. Now, you know,
Speaker 16: do fifty round here and there. And you know if
Speaker 16: you do that every week, suddenly fifty bucks, which doesn't
Speaker 16: feel like a lot on its own, is two thousand,
Speaker 16: six hundred rand a year, but five hundred ruand a
Speaker 16: week gets you to twenty six thousand round a year.
Speaker 9: That becomes really meaningful money.
Speaker 16: And we break it up into those small amounts to
Speaker 16: make it seem palatable, to make it team you know
Speaker 16: that it's not such a big deal. And and for
Speaker 16: people in this space, that's the point. Are you in
Speaker 16: a in a trap of betting here where where you're
Speaker 16: fooling yourself? You know, an element of self delusion thinking
Speaker 16: that it's not such an expensive thing for me to do.
Speaker 16: Because that's the number you need to work out, is
Speaker 16: what is this over a year?
Speaker 2: Warren Ingram is the co founder of Galileo Capital. We're
Speaker 2: talking about sports betting versus investing, and a question that's
Speaker 2: come through from Luke for you, Warren, my daughter was
Speaker 2: starting university next year. We didn't save enough in an
Speaker 2: education policy. Should we take out a student loan or
Speaker 2: should I borrow against my house because the interest rate
Speaker 2: is lower. We'll have an answer for you from Warren
Speaker 2: in a moment ten minutes.
Speaker 13: State The Money Show was Themencruts is brought to you
Speaker 13: by APPS a cib APPS as a registered FSP.
Speaker 9: The Money Show Personal Finance with Warren Ingram, Warren.
Speaker 2: Ingram's co founder at Galileo Capital. Eight minutes to seven.
Speaker 2: Luke's question, Warren, my daughter's starting varsity next year. We
Speaker 2: don't have an education policy. Should we take out a
Speaker 2: student loan or should borrow against my house because the
Speaker 2: interest rate is lower? And student loans normally have quite
Speaker 2: a low interest rate, but we all know we're unusually
Speaker 2: your cheapest finances in your bond.
Speaker 16: I like the idea of using a student loan if
Speaker 16: you're as a parent, are saying I want my child
Speaker 16: to in this instance Luke's daughter. If Luke wants his
Speaker 16: daughter to have some responsibility, shared responsibility for her university
Speaker 16: education and uh and and you know, feel that responsibility,
Speaker 16: then a student loan becomes quite a good way to
Speaker 16: help them learn the world of finance, but with with
Speaker 16: some training wheels. Because when we've got a student loan,
Speaker 16: you know that the student will sign the loan, but
Speaker 16: that that loan doesn't get given without the parent signing surety.
Speaker 16: And and that means that the parent is going to
Speaker 16: be on the hook for that money if if, if,
Speaker 16: if the student doesn't repay that money when it's due.
Speaker 16: Uh And and sometimes these student loans do offer a
Speaker 16: bit of a lower interest rate and and often they're
Speaker 16: a little bit more generous around when you when you
Speaker 16: start repaying the loan, you know, it might be that
Speaker 16: you only need you to pay the loan after your
Speaker 16: your your varsities that are finished, your studies are finished,
Speaker 16: and you've started working. And so if if you as
Speaker 16: a parent want or maybe financially you need your your
Speaker 16: your child to take some responsibility for for their their
Speaker 16: education costs, then then a student loan might be the way.
Speaker 16: But very often, you know, parents do want their kids
Speaker 16: to get through university without the burden of a student loan,
Speaker 16: and if they can afford to help them, then then
Speaker 16: you know, using money in your home loan is not
Speaker 16: a bad idea. As Luke says, the interest rate is
Speaker 16: probably a pretty good relative to credit cards and all
Speaker 16: those things, and and yes, you control, you know, you
Speaker 16: control what what what gets paid, but obviously you're always
Speaker 16: on the hook for that money as as the homeowner.
Speaker 16: And and you know then just knowing that you've prolonged
Speaker 16: the home loan repayment period on your on your home loan.
Speaker 16: So so yes, you know, if you've got accessible money
Speaker 16: in your bond and you want to take responsibility entirely
Speaker 16: for your child's education, then then yes, I don't mind
Speaker 16: the home loans as a good option. It's certainly way
Speaker 16: better than put you know, putting down money from a
Speaker 16: credit card or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, well yes, always credit cards will
Speaker 2: sort of last resort. All right. So so sports betting,
Speaker 2: I mean, what are some of the red flags? What
Speaker 2: are some of the signs that if you see this,
Speaker 2: if you see yourself doing this, you know, actually this
Speaker 2: is a problem.
Speaker 9: Yeah, a couple of quick ones.
Speaker 16: So I think the thing about chasing your losses, you
Speaker 16: know that phrase, I'll win it back, you know, if
Speaker 16: you're if you're down, and this happens to gamblers and
Speaker 16: and and sports betters alike, if you're if you've lost
Speaker 16: a thousand rand and and actually you realize that thousand
Speaker 16: rand was desperately needed for the month end. The mistake
Speaker 16: to make here is you don't then go and take
Speaker 16: a bet of more money to try and make up
Speaker 16: that thousand round because in this instance you might need
Speaker 16: to bet one thousand and five hundred bucks to get
Speaker 16: back your one thousand round. All good and well if
Speaker 16: your bet wins, but remember you're in the hole because
Speaker 16: your bets were losing your money.
Speaker 9: And so if you now bet.
Speaker 16: Another one thousand and five and to try and win
Speaker 16: back the thousand you've lost, you could be in a
Speaker 16: situation where you've lost two and a half thousand round
Speaker 16: and then your whole is just deeper and deeper and deeper.
Speaker 16: So just to understand, like you know this, I'll win
Speaker 16: it back, chasing your losses is just not a way
Speaker 16: to work on this. It means that you should you
Speaker 16: should realize that that you're going down a path you
Speaker 16: need to stop. Some of the other warning sides for me,
Speaker 16: are you know, are you are you betting money that's
Speaker 16: actually needed to pay for electricity, or to pay for rent,
Speaker 16: or to you know, buy food, Because if you are,
Speaker 16: that should be a major red flag, and people are
Speaker 16: doing that there are people out there that are that
Speaker 16: are in that situation.
Speaker 9: And then maybe if you're.
Speaker 16: A little bit ashamed to talk to your family, to
Speaker 16: talk to your your life partner about this, that's a
Speaker 16: sign you might have an issue here, you might have
Speaker 16: a problem. And and you know, transparency and being clear,
Speaker 16: you know, is means maybe you've got this. You know,
Speaker 16: you know you don't have a problem, you've got it
Speaker 16: under control. But but but if you're ashamed about this,
Speaker 16: that's a real sign to you that that you can't
Speaker 16: you might have an issue and you can't share that
Speaker 16: with with people. And and and then maybe the last
Speaker 16: one and is you know, are you much more focused
Speaker 16: on winning a bet than watching the game that you're
Speaker 16: interested in? Back to our example of the soccer fans,
Speaker 16: You know, if you're much more emotionally invested in the
Speaker 16: bet and being right on a bet than actually just
Speaker 16: watching your favorite team play their game, it could be
Speaker 16: a red flag. And and again, you know money's involved.
Speaker 2: Here, Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean I really like the
Speaker 2: idea of, you know, of the issue of if you're
Speaker 2: betting with bill for money, or you need to pay
Speaker 2: for your bills, or you you just need to win
Speaker 2: one I mean that's sort of hunger for it that
Speaker 2: that becomes quite difficult. Is there a particular, one single
Speaker 2: action you could take that might just sort of reveal
Speaker 2: all if you.
Speaker 16: Like, if if some of these red flags that have
Speaker 16: alluded to are are there for you, and and you're
Speaker 16: you're struggling with this, maybe you're just realizing that you're
Speaker 16: struggling with this, then then can you can you go
Speaker 16: for a month without placing a bet and and just
Speaker 16: let that money accumulate in a savings account or pay
Speaker 16: down some debt uh and and if you can just
Speaker 16: see what that does for you, see see what it
Speaker 16: does to your emotional state, to your stress levels obviously,
Speaker 16: to your financial position uh and and get yourself out
Speaker 16: of that that debt issue. And and you know when
Speaker 16: when you when you can do sports betting for fun
Speaker 16: and for entertainment and not to to get by because
Speaker 16: one of these red flags, then you know, by all means,
Speaker 16: go back to it. But but don't do this, don't
Speaker 16: carry on and keep betting a month after month or
Speaker 16: week after week. If if you if you're raising some
Speaker 16: of these red flags for yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that I think that's really good advice,
Speaker 2: just try and see what happens if you stop for
Speaker 2: a month, and then if it's fine, you can go back.
Speaker 2: But just try and see it. And I think that
Speaker 2: often just that time you know it gives you, gives
Speaker 2: people a lot of instead of I know so many
Speaker 2: people who've stopped smoking by keeping one cigarette and saying
Speaker 2: if I needed, I can have it. It's there, and
Speaker 2: somehow it gives them the strength to not go back.
Speaker 2: It's a very interesting thing. Warren, thank you very much,
Speaker 2: indeed really appreciated Personal Finance with Warren Ingram is the
Speaker 2: co founder of Galileo Capital.
Speaker 13: The Money Show Stephen Kruetez is brought to you by
Speaker 13: apps a cib.
Speaker 9: APPS is a registered FSP.
Speaker 2: Well, still a tough day in the United States, after
Speaker 2: a tough day on the JSC the Dow Jones down
Speaker 2: point eight nine percent, the NAAZAC down one point three
Speaker 2: eight the S and P five hundred down point nine
Speaker 2: to four. All about valuations and tech valuations once again.
Speaker 2: B twenty is starting, of course, just a few bucks
Speaker 2: away from where I'm speaking to you now. We'll have
Speaker 2: live coverage of that tomorrow. Don't forget signat to John
Speaker 2: Pullman and Clement moniett Ella will be live from the
Speaker 2: B twenty tomorrow as well. We'll see you then. Good evening,
Speaker 2: it's it's