WEBVTT - Telkom’s Data surge boosts earnings; Sports betting Is no investment, just hope tax

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<v Speaker 1>And now The Money Show with Stephen Credits on seven

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<v Speaker 1>O two. Let's walk little.

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<v Speaker 2>The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

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<v Speaker 2>by Abscess cib As registered FSP. Good evening, I'm Stephen Curtis.

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<v Speaker 2>Seven minutes after six. Welcome to the program. A bit

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<v Speaker 2>of anticipation in the AVERB twenty starting literally as we

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<v Speaker 2>start talking to you tonight, the President is in. He

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<v Speaker 2>is giving a big dinner for CEOs ahead of the

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<v Speaker 2>G twenty. We'll hear from our reporter Knockakanye Tamble, who

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<v Speaker 2>is there for you today, the EWN reporter there. So

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<v Speaker 2>looking forward to that conversation with her. Other events of

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<v Speaker 2>course going on, and you do just get that sense

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<v Speaker 2>that things now really are stepping up a gear ahead

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<v Speaker 2>of the G twenty over the weekend, and of course

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<v Speaker 2>you'll have a lot of coverage from that will broadcast

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<v Speaker 2>live from there through the weekend as well. Looking forward

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<v Speaker 2>to the conversation with telcomen just a moment, non Colled

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<v Speaker 2>ecud Lamini is the group chief financial Officer of Telcom.

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<v Speaker 2>Thev had what seemed to me to be pretty strong

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<v Speaker 2>results and they do seem to be eating the prepaid

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<v Speaker 2>lunch of MTN and Vodacom. Also, I was at the

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<v Speaker 2>big Bloomberg event this morning. This is the Bloomberg Africa

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<v Speaker 2>Business event. They were talking their summer. They were talking.

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<v Speaker 2>Ronald Lamuller was there. He was talking about the US

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<v Speaker 2>boycott of the G twenty. But also an interesting question,

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<v Speaker 2>where would you invest a million rand And let me

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<v Speaker 2>put the question to you differently, how much of it

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<v Speaker 2>would you invest in South Africa and how much offshore?

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<v Speaker 2>If you've learned anything from Warren Ingram over the years,

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<v Speaker 2>it's that you do need to diversify. You don't put

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<v Speaker 2>it all in one place in one country. But how

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<v Speaker 2>much of it would you invest in South Africa at

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<v Speaker 2>the moment? Such an interesting question. Also the cloud Play outage.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you were affected by this in one way

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<v Speaker 2>or another. At least one of the big South African

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<v Speaker 2>news sites was down earlier today as a result of

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<v Speaker 2>this outage. And when cloud Player goes down, that's about

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<v Speaker 2>twenty percent of the world's web traffic. It does seem

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<v Speaker 2>to me that you can get into a position where

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<v Speaker 2>because of the way that economics works, because having one

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<v Speaker 2>operator or one or two operators can make it cheaper

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<v Speaker 2>for everybody. Think Amazon Web Services. What that means is

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<v Speaker 2>when one goes down, well, a big chunk of the

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<v Speaker 2>web goes down. We'll talk through the economics of that

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<v Speaker 2>with Duncan McLeod from tech Central later and Professor David

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<v Speaker 2>bach is the president of the IMD Business School. He's

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<v Speaker 2>actually in town at the moment. He's in Cape Down

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll be talking about the role there. We'll talk

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<v Speaker 2>about what CEOs need to learn as well. Looking forward

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<v Speaker 2>to all of that tonight. You know the number O

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<v Speaker 2>double one double A three oh seven two two one

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<v Speaker 2>four four six O five six seven and voice notes

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<v Speaker 2>of course on seven two seven oh two one seven

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<v Speaker 2>oh two.

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<v Speaker 3>The Lanely Show with Stephen crutis live on ninety two

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<v Speaker 3>point seven and one o six f M.

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<v Speaker 2>We're streaming on the Prime Media.

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<v Speaker 1>Plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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<v Speaker 2>But I've talked today about a story that was published

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<v Speaker 2>in Daily Maverick this morning around the leader of the

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<v Speaker 2>DA John Stiernhysen. For me, those of two big facts

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<v Speaker 2>to the story. The one is that there was a

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<v Speaker 2>defaultudgment against them for one hundred and fifty thousand rounds

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<v Speaker 2>worth of credit card debt, and I know arguments can

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<v Speaker 2>go in lots of directions here as a politician, sort

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<v Speaker 2>of private finances anything to do with the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>us well, I mean the Constitution says very clearly that

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<v Speaker 2>if you're a bankrupt you cannot be a member of Parliament,

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<v Speaker 2>so I think already there's a kind of principle there.

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<v Speaker 2>There would also, I think, be an argument that if

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<v Speaker 2>you can't manage your own money, can you manage anyone else's.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I suppose, just the realities of our politics

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<v Speaker 2>if it were an ANCMP, what would DA people be

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<v Speaker 2>saying anything about it or not would be one of

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<v Speaker 2>the tests. The other big fact, which may I think

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<v Speaker 2>come to be more important, is that to me still

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<v Speaker 2>not fully explain firing of Dion George from the National

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<v Speaker 2>Coalition from the government. He was the Environmental Affairs Minister.

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<v Speaker 2>Removed very suddenly, it seems at the request of the DA.

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<v Speaker 2>They're the right to do, that's the way the coalition works.

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<v Speaker 2>They have a replacement there, Aviliokamp, and there's been a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of commentary around it. Deon George, I haven't seen

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<v Speaker 2>him do any interviews. I know he's given one or

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<v Speaker 2>two quotes to various media organizations, but I haven't seen

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<v Speaker 2>more than that. But the suggestion in Daily Maverick, and

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<v Speaker 2>I take it incredibly seriously, obviously I have my own

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<v Speaker 2>relationship with them, is that it seems that Deon George,

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<v Speaker 2>as the head of finance for the DA, had to

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<v Speaker 2>request Seohn Stephen Hasen give his DA credit card back

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<v Speaker 2>basically the expenses couldn't be managed or whatever it was,

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<v Speaker 2>and that would suggest then that he was mismanaging a

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<v Speaker 2>DA credit card. Now, if it turns out, and I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think we're at this point yet, but if it

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<v Speaker 2>turns out that John stein Hazen took action against Deon

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<v Speaker 2>George and the coalition because of something Deon George had

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<v Speaker 2>done in the DA, and possibly something that was done

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<v Speaker 2>quite rightly because Denasen couldn't manage his own money, well,

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<v Speaker 2>then that I think is going to be a very

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<v Speaker 2>important factor, and that might be the real story here,

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<v Speaker 2>because that would rarely be a very interesting thing. I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's too soon to say that at this point,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'll be very interested in your view. Seven two

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<v Speaker 2>seven O two one seven O two The.

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<v Speaker 3>Money Show on seven Monday to Friday, six to eight PM.

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<v Speaker 2>Wellcome, I'm saying today it's headline earnings per share for

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<v Speaker 2>the six months to the end of September by over

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<v Speaker 2>sixteen percent. It's saw a nearly eight percent rise in

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<v Speaker 2>mobile service revenue. Fiber related revenue was up by twelve percent.

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<v Speaker 2>Non Colle equaled. Lamini is the group chief financial officer

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<v Speaker 2>of Telcom. Non collell equal. Good evening and thank you

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<v Speaker 2>for your time. Your mobile business has great momentum. You

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<v Speaker 2>increased your prepaid subscribers by nine percent. Where is that

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<v Speaker 2>growth coming from us?

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<v Speaker 4>Seven? And good evening to your listeners. Indeed, it's been

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<v Speaker 4>a great six month for US as album where we

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<v Speaker 4>have seen our performance reflecting the business generating quality innings

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<v Speaker 4>and years, largely coming from our prepaid strategy and linking

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<v Speaker 4>to our data lets strategy. So if you look at

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<v Speaker 4>the prepaid part of the business, it's been driving significant

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<v Speaker 4>growth and it's coming from us ensuring that we give

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<v Speaker 4>good value propositions to our customers across the country and

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<v Speaker 4>that has helped to see the growth that we are

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<v Speaker 4>referring to today.

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<v Speaker 2>MTN and Veroticom both reported lower revenue from prepaid customers.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you taking questions? Are you taking customers from them.

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<v Speaker 4>If this could run over a good twelve consecutive courses,

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<v Speaker 4>as Stiven, indeed, where we've let the market in this

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<v Speaker 4>regard with better performance through and through and again it's

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<v Speaker 4>a competitive environment and the customer is always going to

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<v Speaker 4>look to where there's value for money, and we think

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<v Speaker 4>our value propositions have been good for our client base

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<v Speaker 4>for us to get this outcome.

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<v Speaker 2>Your revenue from fiber is up strongly too, and you've

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<v Speaker 2>moved into that space is quite aggressively. Are you expecting

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<v Speaker 2>a lot more growth there? I mean, there's still a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the country that doesn't have fiber to the home.

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<v Speaker 4>There are great opportunities to continue and we've invested in

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<v Speaker 4>fiber over a very very long time and we've got

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<v Speaker 4>the largest footprint across the country. And for us, it's

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<v Speaker 4>going to be how we make it available for all

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<v Speaker 4>that requires it and that can utilize it. So we

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<v Speaker 4>do believe there are still opportunities to monetize more fiber

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<v Speaker 4>across the country Stiven.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the big space obviously would be moving into

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<v Speaker 2>township areas and probably after that rural areas. But I

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<v Speaker 2>would imagine there are plenty of ways to make money

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<v Speaker 2>in that market.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, our strategy includes us expanding regionally and making sure

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<v Speaker 4>that we cover as much as possible across all the provinces.

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<v Speaker 4>But as you can understand, the current three big cities

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<v Speaker 4>like your Durban, your western case may well be looking situated.

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<v Speaker 4>So there is opportunity to do more in the townships

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<v Speaker 4>and to do more in the rural areas, and our

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<v Speaker 4>regional strategy is driving that approach so that we can

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<v Speaker 4>see more people getting connected and deriving impact to the business.

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<v Speaker 2>The massive Votercom deal, I think is obviously about to

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<v Speaker 2>be approved. They will be investing strongly in that field too.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that going to put pressure on your pricing that

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<v Speaker 2>competition and I think it will be quite strong competition.

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<v Speaker 4>We have been watching that space and I think from

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<v Speaker 4>our perspective, we will continue to work to defend the

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<v Speaker 4>market that we have. And yes, they would be implementing

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<v Speaker 4>their own strategies to make sure that the massive deal

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<v Speaker 4>carries forward.

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<v Speaker 5>We will continue with our.

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<v Speaker 4>Strategy for our own growth, with the data led strategy,

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<v Speaker 4>and we do appreciate that students, it will continue to

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<v Speaker 4>be a competitive environment and there could be impact from

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<v Speaker 4>that deal, but we think we've got our own strategies

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<v Speaker 4>to continue delivering our own growth.

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<v Speaker 2>You have a task team that's been looking at the

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<v Speaker 2>situation at BCX. It reported back, it's made some suggestions.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you finally seeing some good changes there? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you've given it quite a lot of attention.

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<v Speaker 5>As lutely.

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<v Speaker 4>So if you look at quarter on quarter reported performance

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<v Speaker 4>on BCX, we've seen remarkable improvement from the quarter one

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<v Speaker 4>performance to quarter two. Much as the revenue went backwards

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<v Speaker 4>by about four point four percent, overall, we saw an

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<v Speaker 4>improvement in margins at nine point nine percent, and really

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<v Speaker 4>that has been driven by ensuring that they continue to

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<v Speaker 4>look for revenue opportunities.

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<v Speaker 2>But from the.

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<v Speaker 4>Cost perspective, there's been a concerted effort to ensure that

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<v Speaker 4>they deliver the revenue at the most efficient levels. Of course,

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<v Speaker 4>so there is a lot of work we're doing in BUSX,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's an integral part of the one Telecom strategy

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<v Speaker 4>in terms of the client base that it has to serve.

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<v Speaker 4>But again, if you look at bus X, I think

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<v Speaker 4>we must also appreciate that the overall industry is going

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<v Speaker 4>through various challenges. If you just look in general the

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<v Speaker 4>IT industry, and we are then focusing on how to

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<v Speaker 4>ensure that we continue to grow in the spaces that

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<v Speaker 4>we are peraiting in.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you say in that sector client so corporate,

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<v Speaker 2>they're not investing in it at the moment. I was

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<v Speaker 2>a bit surprised because I think for many people, your

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<v Speaker 2>IT network has to be competitive. Why are people not investing?

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<v Speaker 2>Are they waiting to see what happens? I mean, are

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<v Speaker 2>they waiting to see sort of which AI model or

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<v Speaker 2>something takes over, or they're just taking a breath before

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<v Speaker 2>they decide what to do next.

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<v Speaker 4>Various corporates stiven are going through the same processes we're

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<v Speaker 4>going through in terms of cost optimization. So it's not

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<v Speaker 4>only not investing, it's also trying to make sure they

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<v Speaker 4>optimize their cost structures in each of the IT spend

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<v Speaker 4>that they are driving, so that is showing impact. But

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<v Speaker 4>you also will appreciate that there is a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>economic impact on various corporates that is going to make

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<v Speaker 4>them not to invest as much as they may well

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<v Speaker 4>have done in the past or wished for. But also

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<v Speaker 4>I think the move that we are seeing in the

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<v Speaker 4>IT space with the AI the cloud is changing the

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<v Speaker 4>environment quite significantly and driving very different strategies in terms

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<v Speaker 4>of how they invest, way, the way they invest and

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<v Speaker 4>how much they invest.

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<v Speaker 2>Non color Eco Lemini, thank you very much, the group

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<v Speaker 2>chief financial officer of Telcom. That's all the money show.

0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Sixty eight pm, nineteen minutes after sexual Santon quite busy

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<v Speaker 2>tonight B twenty formally kicking off at the same time

0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:10.760
<v Speaker 2>the President Sarahramapulsa hosting CEOs at a G twenty outreach program.

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<v Speaker 2>Local Connel and Tambo is the e WN reporter at

0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.840
<v Speaker 2>that event. This evening Loco Kanye good evening. We can

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<v Speaker 2>see how much interest there is in all of the

0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.880
<v Speaker 2>business events in Santa tonight. I imagine they'll be quite

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<v Speaker 2>a a few CEOs for the President.

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<v Speaker 5>They pertainly are good evening to you, Stephen and Za

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<v Speaker 5>listeners as well. The President, in fact, Stephen, even before

0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.280
<v Speaker 5>we get to this particular event, has had quite a

0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.760
<v Speaker 5>jam packed program today. On his diary, He's been to

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:41.720
<v Speaker 5>the opening of a mind, He's received the Africa Expert

0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:44.920
<v Speaker 5>Panel reports when it comes to the issue of jet

0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.040
<v Speaker 5>on the African continent. So he really has had quite

0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:49.960
<v Speaker 5>a busy day and it seems a lot of that

0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.360
<v Speaker 5>really is just touching base with the corporate secup and

0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.319
<v Speaker 5>just as you rightly rightfully mentioned, we've got the CEOs

0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:58.920
<v Speaker 5>in this particular room here ad in Besteg just down

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.560
<v Speaker 5>the road from our offices, We've got you know, the

0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.840
<v Speaker 5>financial services sector CEOs from there, the banking sector. We

0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:09.880
<v Speaker 5>have the Canny Fieka from APPS. We have Commercial Muglia

0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.120
<v Speaker 5>from Investec. We have Pritticy Turners who who is a

0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.120
<v Speaker 5>good friend of the show that who is a special

0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.840
<v Speaker 5>envoid to the US. So really quite the mix as well, Steven,

0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.680
<v Speaker 5>in terms of the different industries that are represented within

0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.439
<v Speaker 5>the corporate sector. Who are here, They've all just come

0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:28.600
<v Speaker 5>into the room. Now think the only person who're really

0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.000
<v Speaker 5>waiting for is the man of the hour. Prisons tild

0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.280
<v Speaker 5>them apart right like I said, because you've had such

0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:35.640
<v Speaker 5>a busy day, we are expecting him to run a

0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 5>little late. But the minute they do let him into

0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:40.840
<v Speaker 5>the room as well, that program will get underway.

0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:42.959
<v Speaker 2>Do we know what he's going to be focusing on.

0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've been fascinated, Knako Kanya by how the President,

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.520
<v Speaker 2>how the government he leads, has been getting a lot

0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.000
<v Speaker 2>closer to business. In the last few months. We see

0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.959
<v Speaker 2>a bigger role for the private sector in providing what

0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 2>were previously government sectors or just kind of helping out,

0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.160
<v Speaker 2>whether it's as more trans net or whatever. Then we've

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:01.320
<v Speaker 2>really seen before.

0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:03.960
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I had a.

0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.000
<v Speaker 5>Conversation with some of the people in the room, Stephen,

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.559
<v Speaker 5>just trying to get a sense about what this Workington

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.120
<v Speaker 5>is going to be about and what's on the agenda,

0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.000
<v Speaker 5>and from what I gathered, it really is just trying

0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.760
<v Speaker 5>to drive investments. It's investments, investments, investments. How do we

0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 5>upscale what we already have, a lot of the people

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.240
<v Speaker 5>that are in the room, like I said, from the

0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:26.680
<v Speaker 5>various industries, mining, manufacturing, the financial services sectum, are people

0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:31.800
<v Speaker 5>that already have projects, you know, bankable projects with government.

0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:32.240
<v Speaker 7>You know.

0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 5>And really the question is how do we upscale that

0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.200
<v Speaker 5>so it's in an inward perspective and then an outward perspective,

0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.160
<v Speaker 5>how do we get them to invest more on the

0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.560
<v Speaker 5>African continent and then how again do we make sure

0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 5>that that materializes into South Africa as well. So it

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.720
<v Speaker 5>really is just another push for investment. Again, even the

0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 5>people that are in the room of people that already

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.840
<v Speaker 5>have big investments, but government really wants to squeeze out

0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.840
<v Speaker 5>a little more that we suspect they still have. So

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.600
<v Speaker 5>it's just those conversations about what is still possible would

0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.720
<v Speaker 5>be a private sector as well as the public sector,

0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.880
<v Speaker 5>you know better than the most Stephen, the conversations that

0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.040
<v Speaker 5>we've had about PPPs, the private public partnerships, so that

0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:23.840
<v Speaker 5>those conversations between governments and corporate about the project upscaling

0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 5>projects in electricity, so your your network industries, your electricity,

0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.800
<v Speaker 5>your water project, you know, making sure that the banking

0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 5>services are efficient so that we're able to do business

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.960
<v Speaker 5>across the entire continent. And so those are the sort

0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 5>of conversations that we're hoping we will see. We will

0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.120
<v Speaker 5>unfortunately not be a part of and privy to the

0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 5>entire conversation, but we will have an address by President

0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.720
<v Speaker 5>sort Amposa, who again Stephen will give us I guess

0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.720
<v Speaker 5>his line of thinking and where he is and what appetite,

0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 5>get a sense of the appetite that there is for

0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:01.160
<v Speaker 5>you know, more projects between public and in private, and

0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.800
<v Speaker 5>then of course, so they'll continue with their conversations.

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 2>Knockocnyon Tumble, thank you very much. Indeed, the EWN reporter

0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.280
<v Speaker 2>at that event at invest tonight with the CEOs and

0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.800
<v Speaker 2>the President looking forward to your reporting as we go

0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.600
<v Speaker 2>through the evening together. So we have the B twenty

0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 2>kicking off. There's the event with the President. Earlier this

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.280
<v Speaker 2>morning I was at the Bloomberg Africa Business Summit and

0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.520
<v Speaker 2>the international relations mister Ronald Lamla he was there. He

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 2>came out pretty strongly against the US boycott of the

0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.200
<v Speaker 2>G twenty, he said at the event this weekend and

0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.240
<v Speaker 2>needed to show that the rest of the world could

0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.960
<v Speaker 2>get along without the US, and it certainly seemed to

0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.440
<v Speaker 2>me that the turne towards the US is changing. One

0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 2>of the other discussions at the Bloomberg event today was

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:45.040
<v Speaker 2>about investment. One of the questions is where would you

0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 2>invest a million rand. It's a fascinating question if you

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:49.800
<v Speaker 2>think about it. If you had a million round to

0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.160
<v Speaker 2>invest right now, which part of the world would you

0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.040
<v Speaker 2>put it in? Which sector would you put it in.

0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.800
<v Speaker 2>One of the panelists was Chantelle Marx, the head of

0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.480
<v Speaker 2>research at F and B Wealth and Investments. I asked

0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.240
<v Speaker 2>her she would invest a million round, Well, I think

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:03.920
<v Speaker 2>you need to take.

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 8>A balanced approach, so you would want some offshore exposure,

0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.160
<v Speaker 8>but locally there is a lot of value at the moment,

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.159
<v Speaker 8>I think particularly in some of the unloved sectors that

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:17.919
<v Speaker 8>are say INC specific so South African Bank, South African retailers.

0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.119
<v Speaker 9>Maybe skip the clothing.

0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.400
<v Speaker 10>Retailers for now, but I think keep some powdered right

0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.280
<v Speaker 10>to invest there and then offshore. I think take the

0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.840
<v Speaker 10>opportunity in some of these cell offs and invest in

0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:30.080
<v Speaker 10>some of the thematics that.

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 2>You may have missed. There's been a lot of good

0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:34.639
<v Speaker 2>news around South Africa Inc. In the last week, the upgrade,

0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:36.760
<v Speaker 2>getting off the grade list, all of that sort of thing.

0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 2>If that continues, presumably you do want to have quite

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:41.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of exposure to South Africa averment.

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:42.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely so.

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.280
<v Speaker 10>I think that you're seeing the positive news.

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.879
<v Speaker 8>Reflected in bond yields that have come down rapidly, and

0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:49.600
<v Speaker 8>you're seeing it reflected in the rand.

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.560
<v Speaker 10>You're not seeing it in South African equity prices, perhaps

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:58.160
<v Speaker 10>in some smaller pockets, but the overall essay Inc. Theme

0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.680
<v Speaker 10>still is very under owned and expery cheap.

0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.280
<v Speaker 2>The true letters missing from this entire conversation. The one

0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 2>is A and the other is I. You're not going

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:07.560
<v Speaker 2>to put your money there for the moment.

0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.800
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, So I think that this corrective Salov that we

0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.280
<v Speaker 8>are seeing right now will offer us opportunities over time.

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.240
<v Speaker 8>I wouldn't want to be an unprofitable text, so no

0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:19.360
<v Speaker 8>pie in the sky for me, thank you very much.

0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.680
<v Speaker 8>But I think that there will be opportunities perhaps on

0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 8>the periphery as well. Companies that are difficult to displace.

0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.040
<v Speaker 8>I'll look for something a little bit more diversified. I

0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:34.680
<v Speaker 8>think in the mag seven something like Microsoft and Amazon

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:36.159
<v Speaker 8>and Alphabet stands out for me.

0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm a little bit skeptical that the chips, for.

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.480
<v Speaker 8>Example, that we're using today are the stuff that we're

0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 8>going to be using in forty years time.

0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Chantel Marks there the head of research to different be

0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.360
<v Speaker 2>Wealth and Investments are speaking to her at the Bloomberg

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Africa business sum at all more accurately in the doorway,

0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 2>I'll be Bloomberg Africa business side, no money show. Twenty

0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.080
<v Speaker 2>five minutes after six of the time, Ryan Hill has

0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.520
<v Speaker 2>head of Fundamental all Sales at ABS to CIB Ryan,

0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.240
<v Speaker 2>good evening to you. Let's start with Telcommon. Certainly it

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:07.840
<v Speaker 2>seemed to me to be quite a strong update.

0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:13.040
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, thanks Eving Stephen. Indeed, market quite like those numbers.

0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.280
<v Speaker 11>Stock ended up about two percent. I think operating profit

0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.639
<v Speaker 11>tracking quite whid ahead of consensus, and it's likely that

0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.160
<v Speaker 11>we might even see some earnings upgrades come through from

0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 11>the consensus for FY twenty six. In fact, I think

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:29.200
<v Speaker 11>the other big positive was the fact that their mobile

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.640
<v Speaker 11>growth was much higher than the market was expecting. In fact,

0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 11>it appears to have been underpinned by what looked like

0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.760
<v Speaker 11>double digit data revenue growth, which was quite quid ahead

0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.720
<v Speaker 11>of their peer group as well. So yeah, market quite

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:43.040
<v Speaker 11>happy about those numbers.

0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:47.720
<v Speaker 2>And it seems particularly with mobile, with mobile revenue, it

0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.480
<v Speaker 2>seems to be very consistent in the prepaid space. They've

0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.000
<v Speaker 2>been building on this for quite a long time.

0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.520
<v Speaker 11>I know, surprisingly so, right, especially in the context of

0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.040
<v Speaker 11>the other operators that appeared to have slowed down quite meaningfully.

0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.800
<v Speaker 11>So it might be that there's some base effect involved,

0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:06.040
<v Speaker 11>but they could also just be perhaps consumers are attracted

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.840
<v Speaker 11>by some of the offers on the display out there

0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:09.080
<v Speaker 11>at the.

0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Moment, a big as a sale by the Acerman family

0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.200
<v Speaker 2>of picking pay shares overnight, obviously that having an impact

0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.960
<v Speaker 2>on the share price. But they're sort of pairing down

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.320
<v Speaker 2>their holding, I mean, in terms of control, they're downe

0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:21.679
<v Speaker 2>to I think thirty seven percent now.

0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:26.760
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, But again I think the market's actually going to

0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.600
<v Speaker 11>take this in quite a positive way over time, simply

0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.440
<v Speaker 11>because you've got enhanced liquidity available in the stock now.

0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.000
<v Speaker 11>They're still quite a decent turnaround story on the go

0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.960
<v Speaker 11>as well, of course, and they'll be benefiting from some

0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.240
<v Speaker 11>of the distribution deals that they've entered into recent Dealser admittedly,

0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.440
<v Speaker 11>we probably have to wait through until about twenty twenty

0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:46.800
<v Speaker 11>seven to really see some of those benefits come through.

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.240
<v Speaker 11>The stock did close down, as you say, about six percent,

0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.720
<v Speaker 11>but interestingly that's actually off the loads of the day,

0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.840
<v Speaker 11>and I do think that again investors were taking advantage

0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.200
<v Speaker 11>of some of the proof liquidity and the fact that

0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.320
<v Speaker 11>the business is still training at a negative number actually

0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.400
<v Speaker 11>when you're adjust for their holdings in boxes. So presumably

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.440
<v Speaker 11>we'll see some upside from here. And forty six percent

0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.440
<v Speaker 11>was actually basically expected drive and basically fell to the

0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.520
<v Speaker 11>bootball price of the family established yesterday.

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.600
<v Speaker 2>I'd be another tough day for them. They really have

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.080
<v Speaker 2>been through the walls in the last couple of weeks.

0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.040
<v Speaker 11>I know it does seem as though it's struggling to

0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:25.640
<v Speaker 11>sort of get a proper pale wing going.

0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:27.520
<v Speaker 2>We looked around a bit.

0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:30.200
<v Speaker 11>It seems as though it was pretty much in line

0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.480
<v Speaker 11>with some of its European paper piers. There seems to

0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.119
<v Speaker 11>be some sort of price pressure coming through in coded

0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:38.280
<v Speaker 11>grades of graphic paper in Europe. You might have called

0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:42.200
<v Speaker 11>it that market's historically been a bit weak, particularly of

0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.800
<v Speaker 11>course with the transition to digital these days. I think

0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:47.960
<v Speaker 11>it's a market that continues to suffer with a bit

0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.400
<v Speaker 11>of downside risk. And of course there's also the Chinese

0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.240
<v Speaker 11>which continue to build capacity in that space, and if

0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 11>their imports coming to Europe, we might see some further

0:21:57.760 --> 0:21:59.840
<v Speaker 11>head wings there. But yeah, done, I think as much

0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:01.040
<v Speaker 11>as seven percent on the day.

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:03.800
<v Speaker 2>And then platinum stocks also all down on the day,

0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.639
<v Speaker 2>and I realized the platinum price has been a little

0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.280
<v Speaker 2>low for the last week or so. I couldn't quite

0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:11.920
<v Speaker 2>understand why, as so many shares were down.

0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.520
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, frankly, Stephen, I think that's probably a case of

0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.000
<v Speaker 11>some profit taking. I mean, these stocks have rallied very,

0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:23.000
<v Speaker 11>very hard during twenty twenty five. In fact, on a

0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:25.720
<v Speaker 11>recent Roadchhow was speaking with investors about what I've coined

0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.080
<v Speaker 11>the so called Precious nine that now basically make up

0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:31.680
<v Speaker 11>between twenty five and thirty percent of the index. So

0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:33.920
<v Speaker 11>it's probably a healthy thing as we come into the

0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.440
<v Speaker 11>end of the year for fund managers to take some

0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 11>profits off the table, and I think that's probably one

0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 11>of the reasons why we've got this assistant selling coming

0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:44.960
<v Speaker 11>through in the gold and the PGM stocks for that matter.

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.679
<v Speaker 2>At the moment, Ryan Neill, thanks very much. Indeed head

0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.240
<v Speaker 2>a fundamental sales at Abscess cib in a moment more

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:55.000
<v Speaker 2>on the cloud play outed the provider that caused so

0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:59.280
<v Speaker 2>much drama on the Internet today simply because their services

0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:03.199
<v Speaker 2>failed and that around twenty percent of worldwide web traffic

0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:06.359
<v Speaker 2>wasn't able to work. Astonishing that this can still happen

0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:08.280
<v Speaker 2>here with the money show's just gone sixth it.

0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:13.080
<v Speaker 12>What's up Stephen on seven two seven oh two one

0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.800
<v Speaker 12>seven oh two, Well, obviously very interesting questions about at

0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:20.040
<v Speaker 12>what point is a politician's personal business and particularly their

0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:22.359
<v Speaker 12>finances personal, and what point is it not?

0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:24.560
<v Speaker 2>I know, it's the conversation that we'll have for a

0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:26.920
<v Speaker 2>while and it'll go away and it'll come back, and

0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure we'll have it again on that sort of point. Though,

0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:33.639
<v Speaker 2>I noticed that Melusa ge Gaba currently an MP for

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:35.200
<v Speaker 2>the ANC. I think he's a member of the National

0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Executive Committee. He's also the chair or co chair of

0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:42.840
<v Speaker 2>the Standing Committee on Defense. He was finally formally charged

0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:45.480
<v Speaker 2>there I think the Palm Ridge Magistrates Court, joining some

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.760
<v Speaker 2>other people. Brian Malefe was one of them at Sibanga

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Gama was another related to the locomotives tender at trans

0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:55.560
<v Speaker 2>Net and there's still so many issues that come out

0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:58.399
<v Speaker 2>of that. But finally he's facing criminal charges. I know

0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:01.520
<v Speaker 2>he denies wrongdoing and a noise has done, including at

0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:04.920
<v Speaker 2>the Zondo Commission they were findings against him. The reason

0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:07.240
<v Speaker 2>I bring it up is quite a few things will

0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:08.720
<v Speaker 2>happen now. The one is I think he'll have to

0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 2>step back down from his and some of his positions.

0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:13.639
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what will happen to his status as

0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:15.919
<v Speaker 2>an MP. He might well have to step down from

0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:18.040
<v Speaker 2>his position as the on the NEC of the A

0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:21.080
<v Speaker 2>and Z and I think that's going to be quite interesting.

0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:23.760
<v Speaker 2>But Salyer, you do get a sense that more and

0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:26.159
<v Speaker 2>more cases are being enrolled by the NPA. I know

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:28.160
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot going on in the NPA at the moment,

0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:32.680
<v Speaker 2>and so more and more we are seeing. Hopefully people

0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:34.840
<v Speaker 2>being told that they do need to be held accountable,

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:38.840
<v Speaker 2>need to answer questions about what happened seven o two

0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:41.520
<v Speaker 2>with email.

0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:45.119
<v Speaker 12>Him on Stephen at seven o two dot co dot z.

0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:47.680
<v Speaker 2>According to seven I don't know if you're going to

0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.680
<v Speaker 2>dream of hitting the refresh button on your browserlike I

0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:53.399
<v Speaker 2>think I am tonight simply because you can't get to

0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:55.440
<v Speaker 2>the news site whatever it is that you are trying

0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:58.359
<v Speaker 2>to get to, most of it because of something that

0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:01.760
<v Speaker 2>happened with cloud Flare, which is a service that provides

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.120
<v Speaker 2>services to websites. Some of the big sites were down.

0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:08.600
<v Speaker 2>I know Deli, Maverick was x was unavailable in some places.

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Chat GPT was unavailable in other places. That depend sort

0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:14.399
<v Speaker 2>of on where you are. As always, when this happens,

0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:17.560
<v Speaker 2>we learned quite a lot about how the interweb actually works.

0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Duncan Mcloud's founder and editor at tech Central dots Saday Duncan.

0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Good evening a cloud Flare. I mean it's a big company.

0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.480
<v Speaker 2>I think they managed twenty percent of global web traffic.

0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, how could they let this happen.

0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:33.399
<v Speaker 6>It's a very good question, Stephen, because this is the

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:39.760
<v Speaker 6>company that many websites turned to to provide stability. They

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:44.560
<v Speaker 6>market themselves as a cloud infrastructure company that really helps

0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:48.200
<v Speaker 6>stabilize Internet services. So do you think we're not supposed

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:52.000
<v Speaker 6>to happen? And this incident is a big one, and

0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 6>it's been going on for several hours, hasn't been fully

0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:56.439
<v Speaker 6>resolved yet. To know, most of the websites have real

0:25:56.520 --> 0:26:02.040
<v Speaker 6>impacted got back online. They're still saying that they are

0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:05.879
<v Speaker 6>experiencing issues that they're dealing with. They haven't disclosed what

0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:08.680
<v Speaker 6>caused this problem yet. I think a lot of people

0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:11.879
<v Speaker 6>interested in nothing what happened. They have said though, that

0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:16.200
<v Speaker 6>they saw a spike in traffic to one of their

0:26:16.760 --> 0:26:18.960
<v Speaker 6>cloud data centers or to one of their servers. I'm

0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:22.840
<v Speaker 6>not sure exact detail from which might point to some

0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:26.440
<v Speaker 6>sort of nefarious activity, but that's just speculation on my part.

0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:30.040
<v Speaker 6>We should have a full incident report, hopefully by tomorrow,

0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:33.800
<v Speaker 6>and hopefully we'll get a better view on whether this

0:26:34.040 --> 0:26:37.680
<v Speaker 6>was an internal employee pressing the wrong button in deploying

0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:42.399
<v Speaker 6>some software into the cloud play infrastructure, or whether there

0:26:42.560 --> 0:26:45.000
<v Speaker 6>was something more nefarious nefarious at play here. And we

0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:50.840
<v Speaker 6>know that increasingly governments are playing in the space, and

0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:55.480
<v Speaker 6>you know, the concern is that there could be a

0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:58.280
<v Speaker 6>nation state active around this sort of thing. But that's

0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:00.920
<v Speaker 6>all speculation of the stage. We should have a clearer

0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:03.280
<v Speaker 6>picture about tomorrow exactly what happened would.

0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Cause this incidet If you don't use cloud flare, are

0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:10.560
<v Speaker 2>there many competitors? What I'm looking at, duncan And that's

0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:13.640
<v Speaker 2>quite a strange question is how concentrated is this industry

0:27:14.040 --> 0:27:16.800
<v Speaker 2>if we have one or two big providers that don't

0:27:16.840 --> 0:27:19.920
<v Speaker 2>work properly, you know, I mean, does does does everything

0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:21.800
<v Speaker 2>start to fall apart of it? Because this industry has

0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 2>been going for quite a long time. It's the kind

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:26.800
<v Speaker 2>of thing that can get concentrated exactly.

0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:32.560
<v Speaker 6>And I think there are concerns that as we saw recently,

0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:34.760
<v Speaker 6>I think earlier this year or late last year with

0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:38.399
<v Speaker 6>the crowd strike incident that led to the blue screen

0:27:38.480 --> 0:27:41.920
<v Speaker 6>of death appearing on millions of Windows computers around the world.

0:27:41.960 --> 0:27:44.720
<v Speaker 6>That and and that was an employee prety hitting the

0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:48.680
<v Speaker 6>wrong button. You know, there's there's there's real questions that

0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:51.840
<v Speaker 6>need to be asked about whether we are centralizing our.

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:54.160
<v Speaker 2>I T infrastructure too much.

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:57.159
<v Speaker 6>You know, Big tech is involved in putting up all

0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:00.439
<v Speaker 6>these AI data centers at the moment. You know, everyone

0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:03.399
<v Speaker 6>is moving to cloud computing, big corporate South Africa and

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:06.040
<v Speaker 6>moving a lot of their on premise of servers into

0:28:06.119 --> 0:28:10.720
<v Speaker 6>the cloud. And you know, the term digital migration has

0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:14.400
<v Speaker 6>become popular. It really refers to how companies are deploying

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 6>infrastructure in the cloud. But these are centralized data centers,

0:28:17.320 --> 0:28:19.280
<v Speaker 6>and things can go wrong. And when they do go wrong,

0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:23.639
<v Speaker 6>and when they are heavily centralized like this, the results

0:28:23.640 --> 0:28:24.639
<v Speaker 6>can be quite catastrophic.

0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:28.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the irony is unbelievable. The whole point of

0:28:28.119 --> 0:28:32.200
<v Speaker 2>the Internet, according to the original designers. I don't really

0:28:32.280 --> 0:28:34.200
<v Speaker 2>want to remember that it was darker from the US

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Department of Defense, But the whole point of it was

0:28:37.040 --> 0:28:38.800
<v Speaker 2>that it was going to be decentralized.

0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:42.440
<v Speaker 6>Yes, it resupposed to. It was built to withstand a

0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:47.920
<v Speaker 6>nuclear war. Yet here is one service provider bringing down

0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:49.800
<v Speaker 6>twenty percent of the Internet all on its own. One

0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:52.520
<v Speaker 6>has to wonder whether this is all getting too centralized.

0:28:53.960 --> 0:28:57.000
<v Speaker 2>Do the owners of sites have recourse? I imagine it

0:28:57.080 --> 0:29:00.520
<v Speaker 2>depends on your contract with your particular content. There might

0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 2>be different levels of contract. You might pay more and

0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:05.120
<v Speaker 2>have more recourse, all sorts of things like that. So

0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 2>it could be a very case specific.

0:29:08.400 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 6>Could be I haven't looked at cant terms and conditions

0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:15.200
<v Speaker 6>that I'm sure it's written in there that if there

0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:19.040
<v Speaker 6>is an incident that they can't be unliable. Certainly, I

0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:23.800
<v Speaker 6>think for most websites there it will be no recourse.

0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:27.680
<v Speaker 6>Maybe if you're a very very large customer that plays

0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:30.240
<v Speaker 6>them a huge amount of money, maybe that some recourse.

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:32.960
<v Speaker 6>Maybe your terms and conditions with them are different to

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:35.680
<v Speaker 6>to most people. But generally speaking, though, I don't think

0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:36.600
<v Speaker 6>there'll be any recourse.

0:29:37.360 --> 0:29:39.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if anyone's been tracking this. I'm sure

0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:43.080
<v Speaker 2>somewhere there is the ultimate kind of nerdish but wonderful

0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:47.040
<v Speaker 2>website that tracks it to see how often sites are

0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:49.440
<v Speaker 2>going down compared to how when they go in the past.

0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:53.120
<v Speaker 2>If there were higher levels of concentration, it may happen

0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:56.520
<v Speaker 2>less often, but each time it happens it affects more sites.

0:29:58.480 --> 0:30:02.400
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I'm sure someone is trying somewhere. I haven't seen

0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:06.000
<v Speaker 6>the day to myself, but it'd be interesting to see

0:30:06.000 --> 0:30:07.960
<v Speaker 6>it for sure. I don't know the answer to that question.

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 2>Duncan McLoud really appreciate the time. Thank you, Founder and

0:30:10.760 --> 0:30:13.720
<v Speaker 2>editor at tech Central dot dot Z day, so many

0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:16.320
<v Speaker 2>interesting questions that come out of all of this, and

0:30:16.440 --> 0:30:19.080
<v Speaker 2>I imagine it will be quite a tough day at

0:30:19.200 --> 0:30:20.120
<v Speaker 2>cloud Flay.

0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:23.800
<v Speaker 13>The money shore with Cleveland Cruts. He is brought to

0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:27.520
<v Speaker 13>you by absas cib taps as are ready at FSB.

0:30:29.160 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Seven minutes now to seven the time well, the B

0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:36.160
<v Speaker 2>twenty starting tonight, the G twenty itself on Saturday. We've

0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:39.200
<v Speaker 2>got the tariffs imposed by the Trump administration. Geopolitics suddenly

0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:42.600
<v Speaker 2>becoming well more and more important to anyone running a business.

0:30:42.960 --> 0:30:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Professor David Bach is the president of the IMD Business School.

0:30:46.480 --> 0:30:49.080
<v Speaker 2>They've got a big innovation cub in Cape Town is

0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:53.640
<v Speaker 2>also Nesday Professor of Strategy and Political Economy. David, good evening,

0:30:53.680 --> 0:30:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for your time. I know it's a busy trip.

0:30:56.120 --> 0:31:01.200
<v Speaker 2>The geopolitical picture's got so complicated so quick quickly. How

0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:03.840
<v Speaker 2>much harder is it now for a CEO to try

0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:05.000
<v Speaker 2>and navigate all of this?

0:31:08.960 --> 0:31:11.120
<v Speaker 14>Much harder for sure. Keep in mind that a lot

0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:14.560
<v Speaker 14>of CEOs, certainly in the West, have developed most of

0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:16.960
<v Speaker 14>their careers in the world in which globalization was a

0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:19.480
<v Speaker 14>one way street and markets seemed to be coming closer

0:31:19.560 --> 0:31:22.560
<v Speaker 14>and closer together, and cost of capital was going down

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:25.280
<v Speaker 14>and you could rely on allies. And it's a very

0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:28.520
<v Speaker 14>different world from the one that they're finding themselves in now.

0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Could leaders' CEOs from Africa actually because of that, be

0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:35.160
<v Speaker 2>in a better place? I mean, so many of our

0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:38.160
<v Speaker 2>CEOs come from so many diverse backgrounds. Many of them

0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:41.000
<v Speaker 2>would be running businesses that have had to overcome huge

0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:45.560
<v Speaker 2>obstacles to keep going. They also, particularly in Southern Africa,

0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:48.600
<v Speaker 2>deal with really diverse workforces. They're used to leading people

0:31:48.720 --> 0:31:50.680
<v Speaker 2>from very different parts of a society.

0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:55.600
<v Speaker 14>I absolutely think so. Look, I think leaders on the

0:31:55.680 --> 0:31:59.880
<v Speaker 14>continent understand that it's very difficult to separate business and politics,

0:32:00.320 --> 0:32:02.960
<v Speaker 14>that business always has a social role in addition to

0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:08.280
<v Speaker 14>an economic one. They're used to uncertainty. They are familiar

0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:13.640
<v Speaker 14>with institutions that are perhaps weak or less predictable, and

0:32:14.280 --> 0:32:17.200
<v Speaker 14>so I do think that they have developed some skills

0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:19.320
<v Speaker 14>or their careers that could serve them well in this

0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:20.160
<v Speaker 14>current environment.

0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:23.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you would wonder actually if this is going

0:32:23.080 --> 0:32:24.840
<v Speaker 2>to be quite a tough time for waste in business

0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:26.240
<v Speaker 2>just from a leadership perspective.

0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:33.400
<v Speaker 14>Oh, absolutely, We're seeing them struggling with the idea that

0:32:33.680 --> 0:32:37.520
<v Speaker 14>suddenly it's no longer about maximizing efficiency, but it's about

0:32:37.640 --> 0:32:41.600
<v Speaker 14>resilience and ensuring you can continue to serve your customers

0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:44.800
<v Speaker 14>no matter what the world throws at you. Obviously, leaders

0:32:44.840 --> 0:32:49.760
<v Speaker 14>are adapting, companies are developing those capabilities, but it takes

0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.000
<v Speaker 14>some time. Until recently, we're still at a point where

0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:56.000
<v Speaker 14>people thought, well, we're about to go back to the

0:32:56.120 --> 0:32:56.720
<v Speaker 14>world as.

0:32:56.640 --> 0:32:57.080
<v Speaker 11>We knew it.

0:32:57.200 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 14>You know, the pandemic is behind us. But I think

0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:05.520
<v Speaker 14>now leaders are realizing, particularly the second Trump administration, ongoing conflicts,

0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:08.200
<v Speaker 14>the escalation between the US and China, we're just not

0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:11.200
<v Speaker 14>going to go back to the world that they remember

0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:12.640
<v Speaker 14>from say twenty fifteen.

0:33:13.360 --> 0:33:16.800
<v Speaker 2>You're investing quite heavily in Africa, Yeah, particularly in Cape John,

0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:19.560
<v Speaker 2>Why are you putting money here at this particular moment.

0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:24.959
<v Speaker 2>I mean, are you seeing a lot of potential for growth? Absolutely?

0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:25.160
<v Speaker 7>So.

0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:29.600
<v Speaker 14>We have now about ten percent of our staff based

0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:34.520
<v Speaker 14>in Cape Town. They are technologists, web developers. They support

0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:37.680
<v Speaker 14>us with many of our online programs. We're just really

0:33:37.760 --> 0:33:41.800
<v Speaker 14>really excited about the talent, not just the technical skills,

0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:44.560
<v Speaker 14>but also the entrepreneurial mindset. Some of the things that

0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:46.800
<v Speaker 14>you and I just spoke about in terms of resilience

0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:51.000
<v Speaker 14>and adaptability. You know, folks who are mission focused, they're

0:33:51.040 --> 0:33:54.240
<v Speaker 14>in the same time zone English native speakers. It's a really,

0:33:54.320 --> 0:33:56.520
<v Speaker 14>really great group of people to work with and they've

0:33:56.520 --> 0:34:01.320
<v Speaker 14>been helping us expand our pack globally. And of course

0:34:01.360 --> 0:34:03.920
<v Speaker 14>we're working with a number of African enterprises. So we're

0:34:04.000 --> 0:34:07.040
<v Speaker 14>really bullish about the continent, the talent here and the prospects.

0:34:07.440 --> 0:34:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean, obviously some things still need to change to

0:34:09.680 --> 0:34:13.319
<v Speaker 2>make it easier for you and colleagues to invest. We've

0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:15.200
<v Speaker 2>been talking about a sort of week of good news

0:34:15.280 --> 0:34:17.600
<v Speaker 2>in South Africa. We had a ratings upgrade from S

0:34:17.640 --> 0:34:20.399
<v Speaker 2>and P Global and things like that. But I would

0:34:20.440 --> 0:34:23.799
<v Speaker 2>imagine you would probably join me in saying, still quite

0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:24.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot for government to do.

0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:28.480
<v Speaker 14>Oh, there's no question. And you know we're a very

0:34:28.680 --> 0:34:33.319
<v Speaker 14>small enterprise and we don't do manufacturing. These colleagues are

0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:37.879
<v Speaker 14>helping us with digital products and services. But the opportunity

0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:42.759
<v Speaker 14>is there. Africa is absolutely pivotal. It's youthful population, it's resources,

0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:49.440
<v Speaker 14>the opportunities for expanding trade within Africa and this current context.

0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:53.640
<v Speaker 14>But for that, government, business and civil society must work together.

0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:54.319
<v Speaker 9>I think you're right.

0:34:54.400 --> 0:34:58.120
<v Speaker 14>There's some hopeful science, but there's so much work to

0:34:58.239 --> 0:34:59.640
<v Speaker 14>be done, and there's no question.

0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Everyone's been talking about AI for the last kind of

0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:06.120
<v Speaker 2>eighteen months now, though obviously if you look at prices

0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:08.040
<v Speaker 2>in the US stock prices, there seems to be a

0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:10.040
<v Speaker 2>little bit of a pullback early days. To say that,

0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:14.440
<v Speaker 2>it seems for the most part, all this does is

0:35:14.520 --> 0:35:18.160
<v Speaker 2>make business decisions a lot more complicated because you don't

0:35:18.360 --> 0:35:20.480
<v Speaker 2>really know how things are going to change. And if

0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:23.719
<v Speaker 2>I were leading an enterprise that was even at all

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:27.279
<v Speaker 2>exposed to this, I'll probably be wanting to dip my

0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 2>toes in, but I don't know how much further I

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:30.759
<v Speaker 2>would go because I just don't know what's going to happen.

0:35:33.120 --> 0:35:36.200
<v Speaker 14>Yeah, I think you really have to differentiate between the

0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:41.080
<v Speaker 14>companies pouring literally tens of billions into building data centers.

0:35:41.160 --> 0:35:43.799
<v Speaker 14>You know, those are some really risky bets at this point,

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:46.799
<v Speaker 14>and you're seeing the correction in the market. But differentiate

0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:50.960
<v Speaker 14>between that and all of the users of AI systems,

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:55.400
<v Speaker 14>and those are well advised to experiment, to build capabilities

0:35:55.520 --> 0:36:01.600
<v Speaker 14>to upscale their workforce because we don't know which large

0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:04.600
<v Speaker 14>language model is going to win, or which set of

0:36:04.719 --> 0:36:07.360
<v Speaker 14>models are going to win, and who's ultimately going to

0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:10.360
<v Speaker 14>have the best technology. But what we do know is

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:12.719
<v Speaker 14>that AI is here to stay and it's going to

0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:16.759
<v Speaker 14>change the way businesses operate. And so at the very least,

0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:20.480
<v Speaker 14>to make sure that you learn and your team learns,

0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:24.240
<v Speaker 14>and you get to experiment and innovate.

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:26.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, you've got to be part of it. The

0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:30.799
<v Speaker 2>syllabi that you run at IMD Business School, have they

0:36:30.920 --> 0:36:32.759
<v Speaker 2>changed a lot of the last ten years? Do you

0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:36.440
<v Speaker 2>think the next ten years Actually, a student studying in

0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:42.439
<v Speaker 2>ten year's time at IMD won't recognize the syllabus from today. Yeah,

0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I do think so.

0:36:43.320 --> 0:36:44.560
<v Speaker 14>I mean, there are a couple of things that are

0:36:44.600 --> 0:36:47.520
<v Speaker 14>certainly constant. We put a lot of emphasis on leadership,

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:51.879
<v Speaker 14>on response toble leadership, the importance of knowing yourself as

0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:55.399
<v Speaker 14>a precondition for being able to lead others. That has

0:36:55.520 --> 0:36:58.560
<v Speaker 14>not changed. We continue to emphasize, as we did ten

0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:01.279
<v Speaker 14>years ago and will be ten years from now, that

0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:05.600
<v Speaker 14>business operates in the social and political context. But certainly,

0:37:05.680 --> 0:37:08.080
<v Speaker 14>if you looked at our syllabus ten years ago, I

0:37:08.160 --> 0:37:11.160
<v Speaker 14>think the conversation about sustainability was very much one about

0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:14.279
<v Speaker 14>corporate social responsibility, and now it's about how do we

0:37:14.360 --> 0:37:18.440
<v Speaker 14>future prove our enterprises in the context of planetary boundaries.

0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:22.200
<v Speaker 14>Ten years ago, when it came to technology, they were

0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:25.960
<v Speaker 14>very much sort of an earlier generation of digital technologies,

0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:29.919
<v Speaker 14>and our syllabus now emphasizes AI a lot more, which

0:37:30.400 --> 0:37:34.440
<v Speaker 14>opens up entirely new possibilities. Certainly, ten years ago we

0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:36.120
<v Speaker 14>didn't scrutinize globalization.

0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:37.600
<v Speaker 2>We sort of took it for granted.

0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:41.200
<v Speaker 14>And now we emphasize a lot more geopolitical volatility. And

0:37:41.280 --> 0:37:43.719
<v Speaker 14>so i'd expected ten years from now, certainly when it

0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:49.680
<v Speaker 14>comes to sustainability, to technology, to politics, our syllabus will

0:37:49.760 --> 0:37:52.920
<v Speaker 14>have evolved. But when it comes to the enduring qualities

0:37:52.960 --> 0:37:55.279
<v Speaker 14>of leadership and good management, I would think that you

0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:57.480
<v Speaker 14>would still recognize some of what we're doing right now.

0:37:57.920 --> 0:38:00.239
<v Speaker 2>For visit David Bach, thanks so much for present m

0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:02.200
<v Speaker 2>D Business School at seven o'clock.

0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:07.360
<v Speaker 1>And now The Money Show with Stephen Credit on seven

0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:09.200
<v Speaker 1>oh two. Let's walk little.

0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:11.840
<v Speaker 2>The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:16.759
<v Speaker 2>by Abscess CIB. It's a registered fspeed nine minutes after seven.

0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Good evening, plenty to come in the next little while.

0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 2>We'll speak to Quinela and Goguela, a senior Inequality analyst

0:38:23.080 --> 0:38:26.640
<v Speaker 2>about the situation, relating that she had just share I

0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:30.959
<v Speaker 2>should say Wilworth's I think finally people have found something

0:38:31.000 --> 0:38:36.120
<v Speaker 2>at Wilworth that's too expensive to buy. Unfortunately it's the executive,

0:38:36.239 --> 0:38:41.800
<v Speaker 2>says remuneration, and some shareholders rejecting a remuneration package and

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.360
<v Speaker 2>executive pay. So just interesting to look at that. And

0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:47.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm always fascinated by shareholder activism. What does it take

0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:51.120
<v Speaker 2>to get shareholders to do something? It can take quite

0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:53.440
<v Speaker 2>a bit, actually, I sometimes feel we could do with

0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:57.000
<v Speaker 2>a bit more activism, but maybe that's just me. Dr

0:38:57.120 --> 0:39:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Tinder and Ding Wee. We'll hear from him Africa Focus

0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:03.040
<v Speaker 2>in a moment and then also looking forward to speaking

0:39:03.080 --> 0:39:06.840
<v Speaker 2>to Warren Ingram this evening talking about sports betting tonight

0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:09.719
<v Speaker 2>in personal finance. Good to hear from you seven to

0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:11.680
<v Speaker 2>seven oh two one seven oh two.

0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:16.319
<v Speaker 3>The LNY Show with Stephen Krudis live on ninety two

0:39:16.360 --> 0:39:19.719
<v Speaker 3>point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:20.720
<v Speaker 3>Media Plus NAP.

0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:23.239
<v Speaker 1>And DStv channel eight five six.

0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:25.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, we've had a lot of good news over the

0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:27.360
<v Speaker 2>last few days. There was a positive medium to and

0:39:27.400 --> 0:39:30.960
<v Speaker 2>budget policy statement. The rating is upgrade. All of it

0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:32.840
<v Speaker 2>and if you speak to people in the kind of

0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:36.320
<v Speaker 2>top one percent of the economy, they're all feeling quite cheaper.

0:39:37.200 --> 0:39:39.799
<v Speaker 2>But of a dose of cold water this morning, though,

0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:43.680
<v Speaker 2>from the SAKI survey the South African Chamber of Comments

0:39:43.719 --> 0:39:47.640
<v Speaker 2>and Industry, speaking to actual business owners, what's going on

0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:51.000
<v Speaker 2>in your world? Effectively, nearly half of them think trading

0:39:51.040 --> 0:39:54.719
<v Speaker 2>conditions are going to get worse. Others still feeling very

0:39:54.920 --> 0:39:57.680
<v Speaker 2>very in a very very tough position. I just thought

0:39:57.719 --> 0:40:00.600
<v Speaker 2>that was important, an important dose of cold water. So

0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:03.920
<v Speaker 2>while I'm as optimistic as the next one, I do

0:40:04.280 --> 0:40:08.360
<v Speaker 2>just remind had to remind myself. And I suppose you

0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:11.960
<v Speaker 2>might already know this better than I do. How what's

0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:15.000
<v Speaker 2>happening at the top one percent means nothing to the

0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:18.759
<v Speaker 2>actual real economy. What's actually happening to people in the

0:40:18.800 --> 0:40:20.880
<v Speaker 2>rest of the economy. There is so much to look at.

0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:24.120
<v Speaker 2>And yes there's good news. Yes, their ratings upgrade will

0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:27.640
<v Speaker 2>be good news for all of us in the longer run. Yoah,

0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:32.560
<v Speaker 2>that longer run can feel like a very long sometimes. Yeah,

0:40:32.920 --> 0:40:34.759
<v Speaker 2>I do think there's still so much more work to

0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:37.080
<v Speaker 2>be done in our economy. Eleven after seven.

0:40:40.080 --> 0:40:42.960
<v Speaker 12>Is on the Money Shows six to eight PM.

0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, again we see shareholders pushing back over executive pay.

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:49.120
<v Speaker 2>This time at Wilworth, thirty seven percent of those who

0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:52.640
<v Speaker 2>could vote in their AGM said no to the executive

0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:56.360
<v Speaker 2>pay policy. Quinela and Googuela is a senior inequality analyst

0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:59.799
<v Speaker 2>at just share Quinela, Good evening and thanks for your time.

0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, how often does this kind of thing happen?

0:41:02.400 --> 0:41:05.720
<v Speaker 2>How often are we saying seeing seeing shareholders just saying

0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:06.680
<v Speaker 2>no to something.

0:41:09.400 --> 0:41:12.080
<v Speaker 7>Good evening and thank you very much for having us

0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:16.640
<v Speaker 7>out of the first question. Are currently This is a

0:41:16.719 --> 0:41:22.320
<v Speaker 7>trend that we have been observing, particularly at the listed entities.

0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:26.200
<v Speaker 7>We usually track the top forty so over the years,

0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:31.080
<v Speaker 7>we have been seeing our shareholders pushing back, voting against

0:41:31.680 --> 0:41:36.960
<v Speaker 7>a boat the remuneration reports, muneration policies. I should say

0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:41.320
<v Speaker 7>that not hitting that acquisite threshold of seventy five percent,

0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:46.040
<v Speaker 7>which require such resolutions to pass, it helped been a

0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:48.600
<v Speaker 7>trend and it has been ongoing.

0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Is it usually executive pay? I mean that's the issue

0:41:53.280 --> 0:41:55.400
<v Speaker 2>that gets to the headlines, But are there other things

0:41:55.520 --> 0:41:59.800
<v Speaker 2>that that people rebel against? We saw I think it

0:41:59.840 --> 0:42:02.040
<v Speaker 2>was was a bollo well, but we've seen one or

0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:03.960
<v Speaker 2>two others that don't always executive pay.

0:42:06.560 --> 0:42:10.799
<v Speaker 7>No, it depends on case by cases, but the executive

0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:15.000
<v Speaker 7>pay remains like the key issue from it. Put it

0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:20.760
<v Speaker 7>that way, I doways. Remember these votes often focused directly

0:42:20.840 --> 0:42:23.480
<v Speaker 7>to the remuneration police and it is implementation and the

0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:28.920
<v Speaker 7>large or maperial portion of such policies and their implementation

0:42:29.160 --> 0:42:33.240
<v Speaker 7>relates to the executive pay. But also in this instance

0:42:33.360 --> 0:42:37.200
<v Speaker 7>one can say the investors or shareholders might be also

0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:42.880
<v Speaker 7>registering that distends with the remuneration governance of the company.

0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:48.080
<v Speaker 7>But increasingly our stan there's an issue of pay fairness,

0:42:48.719 --> 0:42:53.880
<v Speaker 7>uh and accountability, you know. So what we are actually

0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:58.279
<v Speaker 7>seeing from our side, we think this revolved general revolves,

0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:02.600
<v Speaker 7>this revolse reflect a broader freend which sholders with their

0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:06.920
<v Speaker 7>non binding votes because remember currently there are votes are

0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:12.360
<v Speaker 7>just advisory their main non binding. But I think they're

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:18.000
<v Speaker 7>exercising their votes to encourage discipline, particularly on how the

0:43:18.120 --> 0:43:23.440
<v Speaker 7>boss managed executively, which is a key issue of alloded before.

0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:27.759
<v Speaker 2>When shareholders do this, I mean I understand that the

0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:30.719
<v Speaker 2>board had sort of tried to engage with shareholders beforehand.

0:43:31.400 --> 0:43:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Is it usually kind of organized, I mean a shareholders

0:43:34.239 --> 0:43:37.759
<v Speaker 2>organizing themselves, should they be a bit more organized perhaps.

0:43:39.719 --> 0:43:40.840
<v Speaker 9>I think so.

0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:48.400
<v Speaker 7>Then there's me no transparents on how these engagements takes place,

0:43:48.480 --> 0:43:53.399
<v Speaker 7>because in some instances they will say that they will

0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:58.000
<v Speaker 7>engage the shareholders if, who, when and how. Would never

0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:03.640
<v Speaker 7>get that because there's like a great area on remuneration

0:44:03.920 --> 0:44:07.479
<v Speaker 7>governance on that because all we know, or at least

0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:12.279
<v Speaker 7>for the last few years, remuneration governance was governed at

0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:16.560
<v Speaker 7>least by the King four. Now we know we're having

0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:21.799
<v Speaker 7>the King five, the one that has been recent little introduced.

0:44:22.800 --> 0:44:25.239
<v Speaker 7>Now it just says if you do not hit that's

0:44:25.239 --> 0:44:30.560
<v Speaker 7>seventy five percent vote for the remuneration report or the

0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:36.040
<v Speaker 7>implementation report, you must engage. If you engage how when,

0:44:36.160 --> 0:44:39.920
<v Speaker 7>where in the room, or you just tell shareholders to write,

0:44:40.040 --> 0:44:44.800
<v Speaker 7>which is the case now shoholders mast right, you know,

0:44:45.280 --> 0:44:50.359
<v Speaker 7>so one you wouldn't really gage whether or not showholders

0:44:50.440 --> 0:44:56.879
<v Speaker 7>are fellow organizing themselves, particularly big institutional investors. However, from

0:44:57.040 --> 0:45:02.839
<v Speaker 7>us as activists shareholders, we have been trying to ring

0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:06.480
<v Speaker 7>the bell part usually on issues relating to pay fairness,

0:45:07.280 --> 0:45:12.560
<v Speaker 7>where we've been saying that at least asset managers asset

0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:17.000
<v Speaker 7>owners should rather hold boards of these companies accountable for

0:45:17.080 --> 0:45:21.920
<v Speaker 7>the excessive executive pay. When you are comparing itself with

0:45:22.080 --> 0:45:27.440
<v Speaker 7>the salaries of those workers that are at the bottom

0:45:27.560 --> 0:45:30.920
<v Speaker 7>of the pay scale, what you would find out is

0:45:31.040 --> 0:45:35.240
<v Speaker 7>that these gaps are stuck and sometimes in most cases

0:45:35.320 --> 0:45:40.480
<v Speaker 7>these from the generation pains. I'm not linked at all

0:45:40.680 --> 0:45:42.000
<v Speaker 7>to company performance.

0:45:43.360 --> 0:45:45.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, isn't that the thing? I mean, if a company

0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:48.120
<v Speaker 2>is very successful and I could give you examples if

0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I needed to, you know, no one, no one says

0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:53.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm unhappy with what the capitac CEO is getting, what

0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:56.400
<v Speaker 2>the shop right CEO is getting. It's when a company

0:45:56.480 --> 0:46:00.359
<v Speaker 2>is not performing what is doing okay? But but I mean,

0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:02.319
<v Speaker 2>clearly shale does feeling could be doing better.

0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:07.520
<v Speaker 7>No, certainly it's not during that well seven to be honest,

0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:14.080
<v Speaker 7>because the financial metrics, the only performance metric that they

0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:17.520
<v Speaker 7>did well is the one relating to return on capital employees.

0:46:17.560 --> 0:46:21.799
<v Speaker 7>When are also looking at other targets relating to our esg.

0:46:22.120 --> 0:46:28.239
<v Speaker 7>Non financial performance measures such as like driving transformation, that

0:46:28.440 --> 0:46:30.759
<v Speaker 7>they didn't do well on that idea. So these were

0:46:30.800 --> 0:46:34.040
<v Speaker 7>the targets are said or twenty twenty two and other

0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:42.120
<v Speaker 7>financial metrics relating to retents, the ability they are not

0:46:42.880 --> 0:46:46.160
<v Speaker 7>they didn't do so well. And just to remind the

0:46:46.280 --> 0:46:50.280
<v Speaker 7>viewers at home that even the currency of remuneration seven

0:46:51.360 --> 0:46:55.400
<v Speaker 7>results from the vestume of the what they say is

0:46:55.440 --> 0:46:59.560
<v Speaker 7>the final final trench of the sign on share A location.

0:47:00.120 --> 0:47:02.360
<v Speaker 7>So it has nothing to do with performance of the

0:47:02.440 --> 0:47:08.120
<v Speaker 7>company currently. Remember this share A sign on But I

0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:11.600
<v Speaker 7>put it that way, it's a months close to forty

0:47:11.680 --> 0:47:14.920
<v Speaker 7>million of the current remuneration of the CEO that was

0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:19.840
<v Speaker 7>not linked lint naow on the current performance are metrics,

0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:22.680
<v Speaker 7>but it is quite concerning, hence the pushbacks.

0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:25.719
<v Speaker 2>Grenea, thank you so much. Cornelia and Gugela is the

0:47:25.800 --> 0:47:29.200
<v Speaker 2>senior inequality analyst at just Share. Eighteen minutes after seven,

0:47:29.560 --> 0:47:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Rotindo and Dinguie is next.

0:47:31.760 --> 0:47:34.680
<v Speaker 1>Your Many show African business focus.

0:47:34.920 --> 0:47:37.319
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Rotendo and Dingwe is the founding director of Tribe

0:47:37.320 --> 0:47:39.840
<v Speaker 2>Africa Advisory author of the book Rumble in the Jungle

0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Reloaded Houses. Rotendo, Steve don't got signing a deal with Zimbabwe.

0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:48.120
<v Speaker 2>It's a two thousand kilometer pipeline from the Maybia. I

0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:50.040
<v Speaker 2>mean there's so much potential here.

0:47:50.280 --> 0:47:52.520
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, ve interes a lout of all countries Zimbabwe, but

0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:56.839
<v Speaker 15>we've seen that. Look, Dan got the billionaire of one

0:47:56.880 --> 0:47:59.200
<v Speaker 15>of the big billionaires of Africa has been made in

0:47:59.280 --> 0:48:04.120
<v Speaker 15>key in Vespone, Namibia, Ethiopia, Ghana, and now he's focused

0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:06.920
<v Speaker 15>on Zimbabwe. He was there that last week and invested

0:48:06.960 --> 0:48:10.320
<v Speaker 15>in a one billion US dollar project. This is a

0:48:10.440 --> 0:48:14.719
<v Speaker 15>pipeline of two thousand kilometers from Wilverspay and it's also

0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:18.760
<v Speaker 15>related to infrastructure that will produce fertilizer, energy and cement.

0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:22.240
<v Speaker 15>Zimbabwe itself has also been in the headlines for positive

0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:25.080
<v Speaker 15>things well, I mean a few months ago, steven it

0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:28.480
<v Speaker 15>was rated one of the top tourist destinations by Forbes.

0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:32.040
<v Speaker 15>So it's definitely doing a lot of positive things. The

0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:35.400
<v Speaker 15>question with Zimbabwe is obviously keeping the sustainability of it.

0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:38.799
<v Speaker 15>But from a Dangoti perspective, a huge one billion dollar

0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:42.720
<v Speaker 15>investment and that would just translate into infrastructure and production

0:48:42.800 --> 0:48:45.880
<v Speaker 15>of fertilizer and obviously deal with the shortage of fuel

0:48:46.200 --> 0:48:48.239
<v Speaker 15>and production of the continent. So a good story to

0:48:48.320 --> 0:48:50.760
<v Speaker 15>have at this point in time for both Zimbabwe and Dungotti.

0:48:50.920 --> 0:48:53.719
<v Speaker 2>I wonder how relatively speaking easier it is to build

0:48:53.760 --> 0:48:56.320
<v Speaker 2>because that part of Namibia is sort of mostly a

0:48:56.440 --> 0:48:59.440
<v Speaker 2>desert I presume it is, which may make it easier

0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:02.160
<v Speaker 2>to protect too because the very few people there.

0:49:02.239 --> 0:49:04.440
<v Speaker 15>The very few people there. But Ambi has also been

0:49:04.600 --> 0:49:09.640
<v Speaker 15>standing up with regards to infrastructure, both presidents, especially when

0:49:09.680 --> 0:49:13.080
<v Speaker 15>it comes to commodity related infrastructure. Stephen, There's been a

0:49:13.120 --> 0:49:15.120
<v Speaker 15>lot of positive investments in that dieration. So I think

0:49:15.160 --> 0:49:18.280
<v Speaker 15>they've got the capabilities and the I think the pipeline

0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:22.160
<v Speaker 15>will terminate in Bloio. We're not Arara, which is the

0:49:22.200 --> 0:49:24.640
<v Speaker 15>second biggest city in Zimbabwe. But still the positive story,

0:49:25.680 --> 0:49:29.120
<v Speaker 15>this is fascinating. Ghana wants to scrap attacks on minerals exploration.

0:49:29.600 --> 0:49:33.360
<v Speaker 15>They said that'll boost investments. I mean we talk about beneficiation, taxes,

0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:35.480
<v Speaker 15>we talk about all sorts of things. Yeah, Ghana has

0:49:35.520 --> 0:49:38.560
<v Speaker 15>gone in a completely different direction, a completely different direction.

0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:40.880
<v Speaker 15>I mean Ghana one of the big gold producers on

0:49:40.960 --> 0:49:44.680
<v Speaker 15>the continent. Stephen. This levey goes back twenty five years,

0:49:44.760 --> 0:49:47.000
<v Speaker 15>so they want it's vat they want to scrap that off.

0:49:47.440 --> 0:49:49.520
<v Speaker 15>And just to give you some stats, Stephen, just in

0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:51.759
<v Speaker 15>terms of why they're trying to do this, not just

0:49:51.840 --> 0:49:54.839
<v Speaker 15>to incentivize the local big corporates, but even the small

0:49:54.880 --> 0:49:58.520
<v Speaker 15>scale players. In the last ten months, Stephen eight point

0:49:58.640 --> 0:50:02.160
<v Speaker 15>one billion US dollars produced by small scale exporters of

0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:05.360
<v Speaker 15>gold compared to corporates who only produced six point six billion.

0:50:05.440 --> 0:50:09.279
<v Speaker 15>That's in the last ten months. Illegal gold smart gold

0:50:09.360 --> 0:50:12.320
<v Speaker 15>smuggling steven in the last five years has reached to

0:50:12.400 --> 0:50:15.080
<v Speaker 15>eleven billion US dollars, So there's a lot of money

0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:17.320
<v Speaker 15>out there, and the leadership of Ghana is saying similar

0:50:17.400 --> 0:50:20.640
<v Speaker 15>to Pekina Faso Ivory Coast in Kenya, they're saying, let's

0:50:20.680 --> 0:50:23.520
<v Speaker 15>help in terms of creating incentive for guys to do

0:50:23.600 --> 0:50:26.040
<v Speaker 15>it right and boost production. So it's a bold step

0:50:26.360 --> 0:50:30.120
<v Speaker 15>but hopefully to produce a production in the right direction.

0:50:30.600 --> 0:50:32.000
<v Speaker 2>It is a Tuesday, so I don't know if it's

0:50:32.040 --> 0:50:35.799
<v Speaker 2>been really to talk about Guinness, but toleranm selling more

0:50:36.200 --> 0:50:37.720
<v Speaker 2>more Guinness in all then Nigeria.

0:50:38.120 --> 0:50:43.360
<v Speaker 15>Tolerm a Singapore multinational and it's owned, it has the

0:50:43.760 --> 0:50:49.680
<v Speaker 15>right for the Guineas Nigeria's distribution. It's partnered. Obviously, Guiness

0:50:49.800 --> 0:50:53.680
<v Speaker 15>is owned by Diagio and they have sold I think

0:50:54.760 --> 0:50:58.480
<v Speaker 15>Toleram has taken over about fifty eight percent of the

0:50:58.520 --> 0:51:01.600
<v Speaker 15>ownership of the local entity. So it's a big investment

0:51:01.640 --> 0:51:04.720
<v Speaker 15>for them and they're focusing in the northern regions of Nigeria.

0:51:04.920 --> 0:51:06.120
<v Speaker 2>DIAS is pulling out.

0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:08.399
<v Speaker 15>Because they're saying, look, the devaluation of the naira, which

0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:10.839
<v Speaker 15>was about seventy percent in the last year, is too

0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:13.880
<v Speaker 15>significant for them to continue investing in there. So tolers

0:51:13.920 --> 0:51:15.880
<v Speaker 15>Is picked it up. And it's always interesting, Stephen to

0:51:15.920 --> 0:51:18.080
<v Speaker 15>see how you know, one men's meet is another men's

0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:21.000
<v Speaker 15>poison in terms of multinational investment of the continent. But

0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:23.760
<v Speaker 15>as it may be, the other players in the market,

0:51:23.960 --> 0:51:26.960
<v Speaker 15>Haneyquin is still there, AB and BEV, but Tolerance is

0:51:27.000 --> 0:51:30.680
<v Speaker 15>stepping up and investing significantly seeing guiness production, so not

0:51:30.760 --> 0:51:34.360
<v Speaker 15>too early for those that prefer that alcoholic drink this

0:51:34.480 --> 0:51:35.080
<v Speaker 15>time of the night.

0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:41.439
<v Speaker 2>We talk about fintech all the time, all the time.

0:51:42.520 --> 0:51:45.759
<v Speaker 2>In Malawi. It's growing, but there's also a question about

0:51:45.760 --> 0:51:47.080
<v Speaker 2>whether it's actually a bit of an illusion.

0:51:47.640 --> 0:51:50.520
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, so Malawi a small country as we know, but

0:51:50.920 --> 0:51:53.719
<v Speaker 15>they've seen a record number of mobiles money subscriptions of

0:51:53.800 --> 0:51:56.080
<v Speaker 15>twenty million. But I think this is a reality check

0:51:56.120 --> 0:51:58.120
<v Speaker 15>and Stephen, you're right, there's a lot of hype and

0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:02.400
<v Speaker 15>discussions around fintech and obviously it's a significant play in

0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:05.000
<v Speaker 15>terms of where the continent is going espeliciitly from an

0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:09.840
<v Speaker 15>inclusivity perspective, a fourteen percent increase in the single quarter

0:52:10.400 --> 0:52:13.640
<v Speaker 15>with regards to people using fintech and people registrying, but

0:52:13.719 --> 0:52:16.719
<v Speaker 15>they've also seen a decline in terms of utilization. So

0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:20.160
<v Speaker 15>although registration has gone up, there's actually a decline in

0:52:20.239 --> 0:52:23.440
<v Speaker 15>terms of usage, and this is probably related to people registring,

0:52:23.680 --> 0:52:28.520
<v Speaker 15>but affordability as well as erratic concerns around a number

0:52:28.560 --> 0:52:31.080
<v Speaker 15>of components. But the key thing is utilization. It's one

0:52:31.120 --> 0:52:33.800
<v Speaker 15>thing to register, but you need money and product and

0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:36.640
<v Speaker 15>transactions to happen. So it's a reality check as well,

0:52:36.680 --> 0:52:38.440
<v Speaker 15>and I think that's the key thing just to reflect

0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:40.600
<v Speaker 15>on with the growth of fintank on the continent.

0:52:41.560 --> 0:52:45.640
<v Speaker 2>And then this is about borders and ambiguity. So Western

0:52:45.719 --> 0:52:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Sahara so Ahari Republic very contested issue with Morocco. What

0:52:51.120 --> 0:52:53.120
<v Speaker 2>happened in Morocco with Google Maps.

0:52:53.200 --> 0:52:55.200
<v Speaker 15>So it's an interesting thing. I mean, we will use

0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:58.440
<v Speaker 15>Google as to help us in terms of map and geographies,

0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:01.759
<v Speaker 15>but in this case Morocco Western Sahara, as you know,

0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:07.799
<v Speaker 15>was was previously a Spanish colony and there's for over

0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:10.880
<v Speaker 15>for a number of years now going decades there's always

0:53:10.880 --> 0:53:13.719
<v Speaker 15>a dispute between Morocco and Algeria with regards to who

0:53:13.800 --> 0:53:17.200
<v Speaker 15>owns what is supporting that. But cut along story short, Stephen.

0:53:17.840 --> 0:53:20.720
<v Speaker 15>When you're in Morocco and you look at the region

0:53:20.800 --> 0:53:23.920
<v Speaker 15>of Western Sarah and Morocco, because they share border, Western

0:53:24.000 --> 0:53:26.680
<v Speaker 15>Sahara is part of Morocco. Again, when you are in

0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:29.960
<v Speaker 15>Western Sahara, then it's not part of Morocco. So it

0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:33.800
<v Speaker 15>creates a very confusing dynamic with regards to the bigger picture.

0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:35.520
<v Speaker 2>It's a bit like being in the northern States of

0:53:35.560 --> 0:53:38.080
<v Speaker 2>the United States and it says Canada's the fifty first

0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:39.200
<v Speaker 2>States or something.

0:53:39.280 --> 0:53:41.440
<v Speaker 15>So that exactly that's it. So it creates a bit

0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:44.160
<v Speaker 15>of a dilemma and a political conflict. And Google said, guys,

0:53:44.239 --> 0:53:46.760
<v Speaker 15>that's always been the case, and obviously America is wided

0:53:46.880 --> 0:53:49.160
<v Speaker 15>now and supporting Morocco, et cetera, et cetera. But it's

0:53:49.200 --> 0:53:51.680
<v Speaker 15>a funny thing where by Google as a technology company

0:53:51.920 --> 0:53:55.839
<v Speaker 15>has obviously said, god, we've adjusted the political dynamics from

0:53:55.880 --> 0:53:57.959
<v Speaker 15>a software perspective, but it's sort what's happened in the ground.

0:53:58.120 --> 0:54:00.560
<v Speaker 15>So it's a bit of controversy as well, but an

0:54:00.640 --> 0:54:03.080
<v Speaker 15>interesting story to follow and you're looking at Google Maps

0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:05.080
<v Speaker 15>the next time you're driving up into the mor western

0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:05.800
<v Speaker 15>Sida region.

0:54:06.160 --> 0:54:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Rotendo, thanks so much, really appreciate it, Doctor Ortendo. And

0:54:09.000 --> 0:54:13.560
<v Speaker 2>dingwe the founding director of Tribe Africa Advisory show.

0:54:13.680 --> 0:54:15.920
<v Speaker 9>Personal Finance with Warren Ingram.

0:54:16.520 --> 0:54:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Warren Ingram as you know as a certified financial planner

0:54:18.920 --> 0:54:23.320
<v Speaker 2>at Galileo Capital, and tonight we are talking about sports

0:54:23.440 --> 0:54:26.640
<v Speaker 2>betting and Warren's sort of headline to it is that

0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:29.279
<v Speaker 2>sports betting is not investing. It's a tax on hope.

0:54:29.400 --> 0:54:32.080
<v Speaker 2>As always good to hear from you tonight, O double

0:54:32.120 --> 0:54:34.480
<v Speaker 2>one double A three seven two two one four four

0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:36.800
<v Speaker 2>six O five six seven and voice notes might be

0:54:36.880 --> 0:54:40.640
<v Speaker 2>easier seven two seven oh two one seven oh two Warren,

0:54:40.680 --> 0:54:43.920
<v Speaker 2>good evening, sports betting is not investing. It is a

0:54:44.080 --> 0:54:47.200
<v Speaker 2>tax on hope. Very interesting statement to start.

0:54:47.880 --> 0:54:51.239
<v Speaker 16>It's it's one of those things when we talk about

0:54:51.239 --> 0:54:53.400
<v Speaker 16>sports betting that I think is quite polarizing, you know,

0:54:54.360 --> 0:54:57.840
<v Speaker 16>and I guess it's always our job to be balanced.

0:54:58.320 --> 0:55:00.160
<v Speaker 16>I don't think it's a case of saying to people, well,

0:55:00.520 --> 0:55:02.000
<v Speaker 16>don't do this, it's terrible for you.

0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:03.279
<v Speaker 9>You know, it's always bad.

0:55:03.800 --> 0:55:06.799
<v Speaker 16>It's a case of saying, like like any entertainment where

0:55:06.800 --> 0:55:08.800
<v Speaker 16>it costs money, and that that's what it is to me.

0:55:08.880 --> 0:55:12.279
<v Speaker 16>It's entertainment. You know, it should be treated carefully and

0:55:12.360 --> 0:55:15.400
<v Speaker 16>it should be understood. And if you're going to use

0:55:15.480 --> 0:55:20.080
<v Speaker 16>your money, use it with knowledge and understanding. And if

0:55:20.160 --> 0:55:24.960
<v Speaker 16>you understand that it's entertainment, then my hopefully my statement

0:55:25.040 --> 0:55:28.520
<v Speaker 16>makes a little bit more sense. It's it's it's not investing.

0:55:28.600 --> 0:55:30.640
<v Speaker 16>This isn't a way that you're going to get yourself

0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:35.040
<v Speaker 16>out of financial trouble. You should treat this in exactly

0:55:35.120 --> 0:55:37.640
<v Speaker 16>the same way as you would treat going to have

0:55:37.719 --> 0:55:40.600
<v Speaker 16>a coffee or anything else. It's it might give you

0:55:40.719 --> 0:55:43.239
<v Speaker 16>some enjoyment for a period of time, but after that

0:55:43.960 --> 0:55:46.759
<v Speaker 16>the money's gone and and you carry on with your day.

0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:50.960
<v Speaker 16>If you're using this as a way of kind of

0:55:51.040 --> 0:55:54.279
<v Speaker 16>deploying money in, you know, in the anticipation that you're

0:55:54.280 --> 0:55:56.560
<v Speaker 16>going to get yourself out of trouble, which is I

0:55:56.640 --> 0:55:59.920
<v Speaker 16>think what does happen from time to time, then then

0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:02.760
<v Speaker 16>it is a tax on hope. You know, you cannot

0:56:02.840 --> 0:56:05.520
<v Speaker 16>hope that you get yourself out of financial trouble with

0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:09.879
<v Speaker 16>a bet. It's that's not how the entire industry works,

0:56:09.920 --> 0:56:12.200
<v Speaker 16>and it would be the same with gambling. You're not

0:56:12.360 --> 0:56:15.120
<v Speaker 16>there to make money every single time, Otherwise there wouldn't

0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:16.600
<v Speaker 16>be a sports betting industry.

0:56:17.440 --> 0:56:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Part of this is about the idea that I

0:56:21.440 --> 0:56:24.400
<v Speaker 2>know what is going to happen, so I know the

0:56:24.440 --> 0:56:27.320
<v Speaker 2>spring Box are playing on Saturday, and I know there'll

0:56:27.320 --> 0:56:30.440
<v Speaker 2>be another red card. Okay, that kind of feeling. Just

0:56:30.600 --> 0:56:33.480
<v Speaker 2>use that example as a easily example. There's a kind

0:56:33.520 --> 0:56:37.399
<v Speaker 2>of a feeling of control. I mean, is that part

0:56:37.440 --> 0:56:37.600
<v Speaker 2>of this?

0:56:39.160 --> 0:56:39.440
<v Speaker 15>It is?

0:56:39.640 --> 0:56:42.799
<v Speaker 9>And I'm one of those.

0:56:43.320 --> 0:56:45.920
<v Speaker 16>It seems like very rare people that doesn't appreciate the

0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:49.680
<v Speaker 16>sport of soccer. But my office is full of Man

0:56:49.840 --> 0:56:52.960
<v Speaker 16>United fans, can you believe it? And some of them

0:56:53.040 --> 0:56:55.359
<v Speaker 16>have been fans since they were five or six years

0:56:55.400 --> 0:56:59.360
<v Speaker 16>old and they are now forty, and they would argue

0:56:59.400 --> 0:57:02.520
<v Speaker 16>that they are Man United experts and they know Man

0:57:02.600 --> 0:57:06.200
<v Speaker 16>United better than anybody else in the world. I might

0:57:06.239 --> 0:57:09.239
<v Speaker 16>be exaggerating a little bit, but if I ask them

0:57:09.280 --> 0:57:13.800
<v Speaker 16>before the weekends games, who's going to win, it's almost

0:57:13.880 --> 0:57:16.760
<v Speaker 16>inevitable that it's Man United, and they'll give me some

0:57:16.920 --> 0:57:21.800
<v Speaker 16>fantastic reasons why. And if that was true, that they

0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:24.280
<v Speaker 16>were that their team was going to win, every single

0:57:24.320 --> 0:57:27.680
<v Speaker 16>time they played. Then Man United would be an unbeaten

0:57:27.760 --> 0:57:30.760
<v Speaker 16>team for the last you know, thirty years, and history

0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:35.080
<v Speaker 16>tells you that's simply not true. So what we realize

0:57:35.200 --> 0:57:39.120
<v Speaker 16>is that fans, people who you know, are committed to

0:57:39.360 --> 0:57:42.200
<v Speaker 16>a sport or a team, they believe they have a

0:57:42.240 --> 0:57:45.040
<v Speaker 16>special edge because they have been watching their team, you know,

0:57:45.400 --> 0:57:48.200
<v Speaker 16>glued as fans for years and years and years, and

0:57:48.560 --> 0:57:51.680
<v Speaker 16>and so they know better than anybody else what their

0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:55.800
<v Speaker 16>team's going to do and and and somehow, surprisingly it

0:57:56.000 --> 0:57:58.800
<v Speaker 16>lands on the side of positive in most instances. And

0:57:59.240 --> 0:58:03.240
<v Speaker 16>so they try and that faith and they are say, hope,

0:58:03.760 --> 0:58:07.360
<v Speaker 16>into sports betting. They they willing to bet money on

0:58:07.520 --> 0:58:10.160
<v Speaker 16>their team because they have insight. They feel they know

0:58:10.320 --> 0:58:12.680
<v Speaker 16>better than everybody else what's going to happen, so that

0:58:12.880 --> 0:58:16.160
<v Speaker 16>that isn't to be an absolute illusion of control. Somehow,

0:58:16.640 --> 0:58:20.040
<v Speaker 16>I've got I've got more knowledge than than you, and

0:58:20.120 --> 0:58:22.440
<v Speaker 16>I've got more knowledge than the other people who are betting,

0:58:22.680 --> 0:58:24.760
<v Speaker 16>you know, and often they're supporting another team.

0:58:25.600 --> 0:58:27.520
<v Speaker 9>And I'm going to make money out of this because

0:58:27.680 --> 0:58:28.360
<v Speaker 9>I'm an expert.

0:58:29.280 --> 0:58:33.920
<v Speaker 2>So the people who are doing the betting, you're Manchester

0:58:34.080 --> 0:58:36.600
<v Speaker 2>United fan or arguably or kus of chiefs fan and

0:58:36.720 --> 0:58:40.919
<v Speaker 2>have the same problem. They they are betting with their heart.

0:58:41.520 --> 0:58:42.840
<v Speaker 2>What are the book makers doing?

0:58:44.400 --> 0:58:46.280
<v Speaker 16>Yeah, and and so I think that's you know, that's

0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:48.919
<v Speaker 16>maybe where where we need to have perspective when you're

0:58:49.240 --> 0:58:51.480
<v Speaker 16>when you're putting money somewhere and and you know this

0:58:51.680 --> 0:58:54.640
<v Speaker 16>is the money show, so and understand what you do

0:58:54.800 --> 0:58:57.160
<v Speaker 16>with your money. And you know, if you're investing, you know,

0:58:57.240 --> 0:58:59.280
<v Speaker 16>the job is to explain to you what you're doing

0:58:59.320 --> 0:59:01.439
<v Speaker 16>with your money, whether you buying a share or unit trust.

0:59:01.800 --> 0:59:04.480
<v Speaker 16>In this instance, when you're committing money to a bet,

0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:08.600
<v Speaker 16>you're given odds. So someone's saying to you, if you

0:59:08.720 --> 0:59:11.400
<v Speaker 16>put down, just for argument's sake, one hundred and fifty

0:59:11.520 --> 0:59:14.760
<v Speaker 16>rand on a team winning, then I will pay you

0:59:14.840 --> 0:59:16.880
<v Speaker 16>out your one hundred and fifty rand plus one hundred

0:59:16.920 --> 0:59:20.520
<v Speaker 16>Ruand just as an example, Now, they're not giving you

0:59:20.920 --> 0:59:24.680
<v Speaker 16>those odds in the hope that they're going to lose money.

0:59:24.720 --> 0:59:26.480
<v Speaker 16>They're giving you those odds and the hope that they're

0:59:26.560 --> 0:59:29.240
<v Speaker 16>going to make money. And the way that they calculate

0:59:29.360 --> 0:59:34.400
<v Speaker 16>those odds is rather sophisticated. They're not just fans. These

0:59:34.440 --> 0:59:39.720
<v Speaker 16>are companies that employ you know, very sophisticated algorithms built

0:59:39.800 --> 0:59:46.400
<v Speaker 16>by data science mathematicians. They research their market incredibly deeply

0:59:46.560 --> 0:59:49.000
<v Speaker 16>that they will research things that you and I can't

0:59:49.040 --> 0:59:51.720
<v Speaker 16>even conceive that would relate to a sport. You know,

0:59:52.560 --> 0:59:54.920
<v Speaker 16>forget about just the weather, but all the other conditions

0:59:54.960 --> 0:59:59.040
<v Speaker 16>in the world that possibly could impact the outcome of

0:59:59.120 --> 1:00:02.680
<v Speaker 16>a game. They will be studying and feeding that into

1:00:02.800 --> 1:00:06.120
<v Speaker 16>their algorithms to give them the chances of a team

1:00:06.760 --> 1:00:09.320
<v Speaker 16>coming up with a result, whether it's a win, a draw, whatever,

1:00:09.480 --> 1:00:12.600
<v Speaker 16>whatever the deal is. On the other hand, what we've

1:00:12.680 --> 1:00:16.760
<v Speaker 16>got is our belief that in our skill set and

1:00:17.120 --> 1:00:20.920
<v Speaker 16>maybe our friendship circle or whatever we've read on social media,

1:00:21.360 --> 1:00:25.400
<v Speaker 16>and then we place our bet. Now, in most instances,

1:00:26.280 --> 1:00:30.720
<v Speaker 16>the odds are going to favor the person giving you

1:00:30.760 --> 1:00:33.320
<v Speaker 16>the odds, in other words, the data scientists and the mathematicians,

1:00:33.720 --> 1:00:36.480
<v Speaker 16>and so you are relying on luck to win and

1:00:36.880 --> 1:00:39.640
<v Speaker 16>to make money out of that. If if that's if

1:00:39.720 --> 1:00:42.040
<v Speaker 16>that's true, then then you need to be very careful

1:00:42.080 --> 1:00:44.400
<v Speaker 16>about how you're going to place those bets and do

1:00:44.560 --> 1:00:49.200
<v Speaker 16>you understand these odds correctly? And I think that's where

1:00:49.400 --> 1:00:52.160
<v Speaker 16>where a lot of this can go wrong for people.

1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:56.040
<v Speaker 16>If you you know, if if you're betting against the

1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:59.800
<v Speaker 16>you know, a very sophisticated business. They're not they're not

1:01:00.080 --> 1:01:02.680
<v Speaker 16>heating you. They've given you the odds that everything you

1:01:02.760 --> 1:01:05.439
<v Speaker 16>need to know about the deal is known before the time.

1:01:06.240 --> 1:01:08.600
<v Speaker 16>What you should be very honest and humble enough to

1:01:08.680 --> 1:01:11.000
<v Speaker 16>say is that the likelihood is that they're going to

1:01:11.080 --> 1:01:13.520
<v Speaker 16>win if I put this money down. They are not

1:01:13.680 --> 1:01:15.880
<v Speaker 16>giving me these odds because they think I'm going to win,

1:01:16.080 --> 1:01:18.320
<v Speaker 16>and I think a lot of people make that mistake

1:01:18.320 --> 1:01:19.680
<v Speaker 16>and they still hope they're going to win.

1:01:20.320 --> 1:01:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but at times I can hear the argument at

1:01:24.160 --> 1:01:26.320
<v Speaker 2>times I do win, and doesn't that mean that I

1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:27.040
<v Speaker 2>know what I'm doing?

1:01:28.880 --> 1:01:32.280
<v Speaker 16>It does, But now we need to get back to

1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:35.480
<v Speaker 16>behavioral science, to a little bit of psychology. So what happens,

1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:39.040
<v Speaker 16>and it happens with investing as well, when people choose

1:01:39.120 --> 1:01:42.320
<v Speaker 16>individual shares, or they choose cryptos, or they choose currency

1:01:42.440 --> 1:01:46.440
<v Speaker 16>markets or derivatives or anything where prices can move very quickly,

1:01:47.000 --> 1:01:50.280
<v Speaker 16>when they make an investment decision or bet, and in

1:01:50.400 --> 1:01:53.600
<v Speaker 16>this instance we're talking about betting, and their bet lands

1:01:53.720 --> 1:01:56.760
<v Speaker 16>correctly as they thought it would, then they will give

1:01:56.840 --> 1:01:59.040
<v Speaker 16>you a very good reason as to why they're won.

1:01:59.160 --> 1:02:01.440
<v Speaker 16>You know, and if it's me and I say I

1:02:01.560 --> 1:02:05.760
<v Speaker 16>think the spring Box are going to Thrash Ireland on Saturday,

1:02:05.760 --> 1:02:07.880
<v Speaker 16>and here all the reasons, and if I'm lucky enough

1:02:08.000 --> 1:02:11.880
<v Speaker 16>that that's exactly what happens, I will be the Sunday

1:02:11.920 --> 1:02:14.040
<v Speaker 16>Morning Hero and I'll give you all the reasons as

1:02:14.040 --> 1:02:17.840
<v Speaker 16>to why that that worked out that way. However, if

1:02:17.920 --> 1:02:20.200
<v Speaker 16>I make the same prediction and our bet money and

1:02:20.760 --> 1:02:23.680
<v Speaker 16>things go wrong, we get two red cards and the

1:02:23.760 --> 1:02:26.680
<v Speaker 16>weather is terrible and something happens and someone gets injured,

1:02:26.960 --> 1:02:29.080
<v Speaker 16>then I would put that down to bad luck.

1:02:29.480 --> 1:02:29.840
<v Speaker 9>It won't.

1:02:29.880 --> 1:02:32.600
<v Speaker 16>It won't be because I made a mistake. And that's

1:02:32.840 --> 1:02:36.320
<v Speaker 16>that psychology. It's not that you know, suddenly I'm crazy.

1:02:36.480 --> 1:02:40.600
<v Speaker 16>That's simple psychology. We remember our bets with fondness, and

1:02:40.720 --> 1:02:44.439
<v Speaker 16>we tend to forget our bets where we were wrong,

1:02:44.800 --> 1:02:46.760
<v Speaker 16>and we start to blame that on other factors. It

1:02:46.800 --> 1:02:50.040
<v Speaker 16>couldn't possibly be us. And and over time, you know,

1:02:50.080 --> 1:02:52.880
<v Speaker 16>if we bet consistently, you know, week after week, over

1:02:53.280 --> 1:02:56.800
<v Speaker 16>six or seven match series and we're right twice, we'll

1:02:56.880 --> 1:02:59.400
<v Speaker 16>remember those wins and we'll forget the losses. You know,

1:02:59.520 --> 1:03:02.040
<v Speaker 16>a year fo now, we'll only remember the winds and

1:03:02.440 --> 1:03:06.320
<v Speaker 16>if we're betting consistently, that's pretty dangerous because now we

1:03:06.400 --> 1:03:09.400
<v Speaker 16>start to believe in our skill and not the element

1:03:09.480 --> 1:03:09.840
<v Speaker 16>of luck.

1:03:10.560 --> 1:03:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I mean, and this isn't this The problem

1:03:13.280 --> 1:03:17.280
<v Speaker 2>is that you remember the winds And that's really strong psychological.

1:03:17.360 --> 1:03:20.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's like strong psychologically. It's like when people

1:03:21.520 --> 1:03:25.920
<v Speaker 2>remember being young and they hear music from when they

1:03:26.000 --> 1:03:29.280
<v Speaker 2>were young and they think the world was better In

1:03:29.360 --> 1:03:33.080
<v Speaker 2>South Africa, the world was not better, and yet people

1:03:33.240 --> 1:03:36.240
<v Speaker 2>rarely believe it because of where they were at the

1:03:36.320 --> 1:03:38.800
<v Speaker 2>time they were young. It's the same kind of thing.

1:03:38.880 --> 1:03:41.120
<v Speaker 2>You remember that rush of victory and you you don't

1:03:41.120 --> 1:03:42.360
<v Speaker 2>really remember anything else.

1:03:43.840 --> 1:03:44.240
<v Speaker 9>Exactly.

1:03:44.320 --> 1:03:48.120
<v Speaker 16>And so we you know, my favorite phrase to people

1:03:48.160 --> 1:03:50.320
<v Speaker 16>who are who were lucky enough to choose a share

1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:53.200
<v Speaker 16>that did incredibly well is don't confuse luck and skill.

1:03:54.000 --> 1:03:58.360
<v Speaker 16>And so when when you're betting, you are absolutely riding

1:03:58.480 --> 1:04:01.880
<v Speaker 16>on the element of luck. And and so when you

1:04:01.960 --> 1:04:04.520
<v Speaker 16>are lucky enough to win, you need to make sure

1:04:04.560 --> 1:04:07.160
<v Speaker 16>that you win with humility and understand that you were

1:04:07.240 --> 1:04:10.760
<v Speaker 16>lucky and that you don't have, you know, some special

1:04:10.800 --> 1:04:14.480
<v Speaker 16>insight that that now makes you way better than tens

1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:18.080
<v Speaker 16>of thousands of other you know, people and data scientists

1:04:18.200 --> 1:04:21.680
<v Speaker 16>and you know, very sophisticated computers and algorithms, et cetera.

1:04:22.280 --> 1:04:22.880
<v Speaker 9>You were lucky.

1:04:23.160 --> 1:04:26.840
<v Speaker 16>And and that's okay, I'm not a critique. It's just

1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:29.160
<v Speaker 16>that you need to remind yourself that you are doing

1:04:29.240 --> 1:04:31.800
<v Speaker 16>something for entertainment, and that's not that you have a

1:04:31.880 --> 1:04:36.640
<v Speaker 16>special skill. There might be the very few people who

1:04:36.760 --> 1:04:40.760
<v Speaker 16>are you know, mathematical geniuses and can work out odds

1:04:40.840 --> 1:04:44.720
<v Speaker 16>to the thousandth percent of a fraction of a percent

1:04:44.840 --> 1:04:47.880
<v Speaker 16>and figure out that sometimes the odds are wrong, and

1:04:48.000 --> 1:04:50.720
<v Speaker 16>that might happen in very rare instances.

1:04:50.880 --> 1:04:53.200
<v Speaker 9>But for the very vast majority of us.

1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:57.760
<v Speaker 16>Even those that studied maths at school and university, we're

1:04:57.840 --> 1:05:01.200
<v Speaker 16>always going to be lucky when we win, and we

1:05:01.320 --> 1:05:03.720
<v Speaker 16>need to know that, especially when when we then start

1:05:03.760 --> 1:05:05.040
<v Speaker 16>to accumulate those losses.

1:05:05.640 --> 1:05:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Okay, there are also I suppose in every in everything,

1:05:09.400 --> 1:05:12.880
<v Speaker 2>but particularly and there's some real costs. And it's not

1:05:13.080 --> 1:05:14.560
<v Speaker 2>just about the money that you lose.

1:05:16.240 --> 1:05:19.760
<v Speaker 16>Yeah, and I've noticed, you know, in the kind of

1:05:19.840 --> 1:05:22.920
<v Speaker 16>broader media world now, you know, kind of commentary around

1:05:23.760 --> 1:05:26.000
<v Speaker 16>around sports betting and what's being done with money, and

1:05:26.360 --> 1:05:28.400
<v Speaker 16>and so I mean, the job here is for people

1:05:28.480 --> 1:05:31.200
<v Speaker 16>to understand what is it costing you? If you're listening

1:05:31.280 --> 1:05:33.520
<v Speaker 16>to this and you are one of those people that says,

1:05:33.840 --> 1:05:36.520
<v Speaker 16>out of mind, I'm happy to put in five hundred

1:05:36.600 --> 1:05:39.200
<v Speaker 16>random month, you know, and it's just a little flatter

1:05:39.320 --> 1:05:40.160
<v Speaker 16>and it's a bit of fun.

1:05:41.880 --> 1:05:43.960
<v Speaker 9>You know, if if you're in a strong.

1:05:43.800 --> 1:05:47.520
<v Speaker 16>Financial position and five and random month is not making

1:05:47.560 --> 1:05:50.800
<v Speaker 16>your credit card debt worse and help you know, getting

1:05:50.920 --> 1:05:54.720
<v Speaker 16>the big personal loans and overdrafts, et cetera, then good

1:05:54.800 --> 1:05:54.960
<v Speaker 16>for you.

1:05:55.160 --> 1:05:55.480
<v Speaker 9>Carry on.

1:05:55.600 --> 1:05:58.520
<v Speaker 16>And the context of that is it's money that you're

1:05:58.520 --> 1:06:02.000
<v Speaker 16>prepared to spare on a coffee, and you're not doing

1:06:02.040 --> 1:06:04.920
<v Speaker 16>it on a coffee. You're now doing it on sports betting.

1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:08.520
<v Speaker 16>But if you are in financial trouble and you've got

1:06:08.640 --> 1:06:12.480
<v Speaker 16>debts compounding against you workout that five hundred random month

1:06:12.760 --> 1:06:15.040
<v Speaker 16>is actually getting you to six thousand round a year,

1:06:15.480 --> 1:06:17.320
<v Speaker 16>And that six thousand round a year, what could you

1:06:17.400 --> 1:06:19.480
<v Speaker 16>have done with it? Could that have got you out

1:06:19.480 --> 1:06:21.280
<v Speaker 16>of the debt hole that you're in at the moment?

1:06:22.040 --> 1:06:24.080
<v Speaker 16>And you know, I think a lot of the time

1:06:25.280 --> 1:06:27.680
<v Speaker 16>I call it the small bet trap. So you know,

1:06:27.720 --> 1:06:30.080
<v Speaker 16>I'm just going to take a quick flatter. I noticed

1:06:30.080 --> 1:06:31.720
<v Speaker 16>the other day on my phone, Steven that now in

1:06:31.800 --> 1:06:34.840
<v Speaker 16>my banking app, I can take a flatter on sports

1:06:34.880 --> 1:06:38.760
<v Speaker 16>betting sites with small amounts of money. Now, you know,

1:06:38.960 --> 1:06:42.360
<v Speaker 16>do fifty round here and there. And you know if

1:06:42.400 --> 1:06:45.800
<v Speaker 16>you do that every week, suddenly fifty bucks, which doesn't

1:06:45.800 --> 1:06:47.640
<v Speaker 16>feel like a lot on its own, is two thousand,

1:06:47.680 --> 1:06:50.640
<v Speaker 16>six hundred rand a year, but five hundred ruand a

1:06:50.680 --> 1:06:52.960
<v Speaker 16>week gets you to twenty six thousand round a year.

1:06:53.360 --> 1:06:55.400
<v Speaker 9>That becomes really meaningful money.

1:06:55.560 --> 1:06:58.200
<v Speaker 16>And we break it up into those small amounts to

1:06:58.280 --> 1:07:01.280
<v Speaker 16>make it seem palatable, to make it team you know

1:07:01.400 --> 1:07:03.160
<v Speaker 16>that it's not such a big deal. And and for

1:07:03.280 --> 1:07:05.880
<v Speaker 16>people in this space, that's the point. Are you in

1:07:06.000 --> 1:07:08.720
<v Speaker 16>a in a trap of betting here where where you're

1:07:08.880 --> 1:07:12.040
<v Speaker 16>fooling yourself? You know, an element of self delusion thinking

1:07:12.080 --> 1:07:13.960
<v Speaker 16>that it's not such an expensive thing for me to do.

1:07:14.120 --> 1:07:15.920
<v Speaker 16>Because that's the number you need to work out, is

1:07:16.000 --> 1:07:17.120
<v Speaker 16>what is this over a year?

1:07:18.000 --> 1:07:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Warren Ingram is the co founder of Galileo Capital. We're

1:07:20.520 --> 1:07:24.720
<v Speaker 2>talking about sports betting versus investing, and a question that's

1:07:24.760 --> 1:07:27.600
<v Speaker 2>come through from Luke for you, Warren, my daughter was

1:07:27.640 --> 1:07:30.360
<v Speaker 2>starting university next year. We didn't save enough in an

1:07:30.480 --> 1:07:33.200
<v Speaker 2>education policy. Should we take out a student loan or

1:07:33.240 --> 1:07:35.600
<v Speaker 2>should I borrow against my house because the interest rate

1:07:35.920 --> 1:07:38.120
<v Speaker 2>is lower. We'll have an answer for you from Warren

1:07:38.200 --> 1:07:39.360
<v Speaker 2>in a moment ten minutes.

1:07:39.160 --> 1:07:43.720
<v Speaker 13>State The Money Show was Themencruts is brought to you

1:07:43.960 --> 1:07:47.000
<v Speaker 13>by APPS a cib APPS as a registered FSP.

1:07:49.000 --> 1:07:53.080
<v Speaker 9>The Money Show Personal Finance with Warren Ingram, Warren.

1:07:52.960 --> 1:07:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Ingram's co founder at Galileo Capital. Eight minutes to seven.

1:07:56.000 --> 1:07:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Luke's question, Warren, my daughter's starting varsity next year. We

1:07:59.320 --> 1:08:01.520
<v Speaker 2>don't have an education policy. Should we take out a

1:08:01.560 --> 1:08:03.840
<v Speaker 2>student loan or should borrow against my house because the

1:08:03.920 --> 1:08:08.000
<v Speaker 2>interest rate is lower? And student loans normally have quite

1:08:08.040 --> 1:08:11.200
<v Speaker 2>a low interest rate, but we all know we're unusually

1:08:11.200 --> 1:08:12.600
<v Speaker 2>your cheapest finances in your bond.

1:08:14.800 --> 1:08:18.920
<v Speaker 16>I like the idea of using a student loan if

1:08:19.000 --> 1:08:22.639
<v Speaker 16>you're as a parent, are saying I want my child

1:08:22.840 --> 1:08:25.560
<v Speaker 16>to in this instance Luke's daughter. If Luke wants his

1:08:25.720 --> 1:08:30.560
<v Speaker 16>daughter to have some responsibility, shared responsibility for her university

1:08:30.760 --> 1:08:34.680
<v Speaker 16>education and uh and and you know, feel that responsibility,

1:08:34.760 --> 1:08:37.560
<v Speaker 16>then a student loan becomes quite a good way to

1:08:38.040 --> 1:08:41.160
<v Speaker 16>help them learn the world of finance, but with with

1:08:41.439 --> 1:08:44.479
<v Speaker 16>some training wheels. Because when we've got a student loan,

1:08:44.560 --> 1:08:46.680
<v Speaker 16>you know that the student will sign the loan, but

1:08:47.400 --> 1:08:50.519
<v Speaker 16>that that loan doesn't get given without the parent signing surety.

1:08:51.200 --> 1:08:53.240
<v Speaker 16>And and that means that the parent is going to

1:08:53.320 --> 1:08:55.240
<v Speaker 16>be on the hook for that money if if, if,

1:08:55.880 --> 1:08:58.800
<v Speaker 16>if the student doesn't repay that money when it's due.

1:08:59.280 --> 1:09:01.720
<v Speaker 16>Uh And and sometimes these student loans do offer a

1:09:01.760 --> 1:09:04.920
<v Speaker 16>bit of a lower interest rate and and often they're

1:09:04.920 --> 1:09:07.240
<v Speaker 16>a little bit more generous around when you when you

1:09:07.360 --> 1:09:09.160
<v Speaker 16>start repaying the loan, you know, it might be that

1:09:09.280 --> 1:09:12.080
<v Speaker 16>you only need you to pay the loan after your

1:09:12.320 --> 1:09:15.280
<v Speaker 16>your your varsities that are finished, your studies are finished,

1:09:15.720 --> 1:09:19.000
<v Speaker 16>and you've started working. And so if if you as

1:09:19.040 --> 1:09:21.960
<v Speaker 16>a parent want or maybe financially you need your your

1:09:22.080 --> 1:09:25.240
<v Speaker 16>your child to take some responsibility for for their their

1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:28.200
<v Speaker 16>education costs, then then a student loan might be the way.

1:09:28.560 --> 1:09:31.720
<v Speaker 16>But very often, you know, parents do want their kids

1:09:31.800 --> 1:09:34.760
<v Speaker 16>to get through university without the burden of a student loan,

1:09:34.840 --> 1:09:37.360
<v Speaker 16>and if they can afford to help them, then then

1:09:38.080 --> 1:09:39.920
<v Speaker 16>you know, using money in your home loan is not

1:09:40.000 --> 1:09:42.439
<v Speaker 16>a bad idea. As Luke says, the interest rate is

1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:46.080
<v Speaker 16>probably a pretty good relative to credit cards and all

1:09:46.120 --> 1:09:50.040
<v Speaker 16>those things, and and yes, you control, you know, you

1:09:50.160 --> 1:09:53.280
<v Speaker 16>control what what what gets paid, but obviously you're always

1:09:53.320 --> 1:09:56.719
<v Speaker 16>on the hook for that money as as the homeowner.

1:09:56.800 --> 1:09:59.600
<v Speaker 16>And and you know then just knowing that you've prolonged

1:10:00.160 --> 1:10:03.000
<v Speaker 16>the home loan repayment period on your on your home loan.

1:10:03.080 --> 1:10:05.639
<v Speaker 16>So so yes, you know, if you've got accessible money

1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:08.960
<v Speaker 16>in your bond and you want to take responsibility entirely

1:10:09.040 --> 1:10:11.720
<v Speaker 16>for your child's education, then then yes, I don't mind

1:10:11.760 --> 1:10:14.559
<v Speaker 16>the home loans as a good option. It's certainly way

1:10:14.680 --> 1:10:17.080
<v Speaker 16>better than put you know, putting down money from a

1:10:17.120 --> 1:10:18.280
<v Speaker 16>credit card or something like that.

1:10:18.760 --> 1:10:21.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I mean, well yes, always credit cards will

1:10:21.439 --> 1:10:24.439
<v Speaker 2>sort of last resort. All right. So so sports betting,

1:10:24.439 --> 1:10:25.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what are some of the red flags? What

1:10:26.040 --> 1:10:27.640
<v Speaker 2>are some of the signs that if you see this,

1:10:28.280 --> 1:10:30.240
<v Speaker 2>if you see yourself doing this, you know, actually this

1:10:30.400 --> 1:10:30.880
<v Speaker 2>is a problem.

1:10:32.120 --> 1:10:33.360
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, a couple of quick ones.

1:10:33.400 --> 1:10:36.600
<v Speaker 16>So I think the thing about chasing your losses, you

1:10:36.640 --> 1:10:38.599
<v Speaker 16>know that phrase, I'll win it back, you know, if

1:10:38.600 --> 1:10:41.160
<v Speaker 16>you're if you're down, and this happens to gamblers and

1:10:41.479 --> 1:10:44.960
<v Speaker 16>and and sports betters alike, if you're if you've lost

1:10:45.000 --> 1:10:47.839
<v Speaker 16>a thousand rand and and actually you realize that thousand

1:10:47.920 --> 1:10:51.880
<v Speaker 16>rand was desperately needed for the month end. The mistake

1:10:51.960 --> 1:10:53.880
<v Speaker 16>to make here is you don't then go and take

1:10:54.280 --> 1:10:57.479
<v Speaker 16>a bet of more money to try and make up

1:10:57.520 --> 1:11:00.200
<v Speaker 16>that thousand round because in this instance you might need

1:11:00.280 --> 1:11:02.559
<v Speaker 16>to bet one thousand and five hundred bucks to get

1:11:02.680 --> 1:11:05.879
<v Speaker 16>back your one thousand round. All good and well if

1:11:05.920 --> 1:11:08.960
<v Speaker 16>your bet wins, but remember you're in the hole because

1:11:09.000 --> 1:11:10.760
<v Speaker 16>your bets were losing your money.

1:11:11.120 --> 1:11:12.439
<v Speaker 9>And so if you now bet.

1:11:12.360 --> 1:11:14.320
<v Speaker 16>Another one thousand and five and to try and win

1:11:14.400 --> 1:11:16.400
<v Speaker 16>back the thousand you've lost, you could be in a

1:11:16.439 --> 1:11:18.880
<v Speaker 16>situation where you've lost two and a half thousand round

1:11:19.000 --> 1:11:22.000
<v Speaker 16>and then your whole is just deeper and deeper and deeper.

1:11:22.360 --> 1:11:25.439
<v Speaker 16>So just to understand, like you know this, I'll win

1:11:25.520 --> 1:11:28.599
<v Speaker 16>it back, chasing your losses is just not a way

1:11:28.640 --> 1:11:30.400
<v Speaker 16>to work on this. It means that you should you

1:11:30.439 --> 1:11:32.960
<v Speaker 16>should realize that that you're going down a path you

1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:36.479
<v Speaker 16>need to stop. Some of the other warning sides for me,

1:11:36.600 --> 1:11:39.439
<v Speaker 16>are you know, are you are you betting money that's

1:11:39.479 --> 1:11:42.880
<v Speaker 16>actually needed to pay for electricity, or to pay for rent,

1:11:43.200 --> 1:11:45.800
<v Speaker 16>or to you know, buy food, Because if you are,

1:11:46.040 --> 1:11:48.760
<v Speaker 16>that should be a major red flag, and people are

1:11:48.840 --> 1:11:50.479
<v Speaker 16>doing that there are people out there that are that

1:11:50.560 --> 1:11:51.400
<v Speaker 16>are in that situation.

1:11:52.040 --> 1:11:54.479
<v Speaker 9>And then maybe if you're.

1:11:54.439 --> 1:11:56.680
<v Speaker 16>A little bit ashamed to talk to your family, to

1:11:56.720 --> 1:12:00.400
<v Speaker 16>talk to your your life partner about this, that's a

1:12:00.479 --> 1:12:02.560
<v Speaker 16>sign you might have an issue here, you might have

1:12:02.640 --> 1:12:05.479
<v Speaker 16>a problem. And and you know, transparency and being clear,

1:12:06.520 --> 1:12:09.600
<v Speaker 16>you know, is means maybe you've got this. You know,

1:12:09.720 --> 1:12:11.200
<v Speaker 16>you know you don't have a problem, you've got it

1:12:11.320 --> 1:12:14.640
<v Speaker 16>under control. But but but if you're ashamed about this,

1:12:14.800 --> 1:12:16.840
<v Speaker 16>that's a real sign to you that that you can't

1:12:17.439 --> 1:12:18.920
<v Speaker 16>you might have an issue and you can't share that

1:12:19.080 --> 1:12:21.479
<v Speaker 16>with with people. And and and then maybe the last

1:12:21.520 --> 1:12:25.120
<v Speaker 16>one and is you know, are you much more focused

1:12:25.200 --> 1:12:27.960
<v Speaker 16>on winning a bet than watching the game that you're

1:12:28.000 --> 1:12:31.040
<v Speaker 16>interested in? Back to our example of the soccer fans,

1:12:31.080 --> 1:12:33.560
<v Speaker 16>You know, if you're much more emotionally invested in the

1:12:33.640 --> 1:12:36.160
<v Speaker 16>bet and being right on a bet than actually just

1:12:36.280 --> 1:12:40.080
<v Speaker 16>watching your favorite team play their game, it could be

1:12:40.160 --> 1:12:43.200
<v Speaker 16>a red flag. And and again, you know money's involved.

1:12:42.840 --> 1:12:45.720
<v Speaker 2>Here, Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean I really like the

1:12:45.800 --> 1:12:48.439
<v Speaker 2>idea of, you know, of the issue of if you're

1:12:48.439 --> 1:12:50.320
<v Speaker 2>betting with bill for money, or you need to pay

1:12:50.360 --> 1:12:52.320
<v Speaker 2>for your bills, or you you just need to win

1:12:52.439 --> 1:12:54.080
<v Speaker 2>one I mean that's sort of hunger for it that

1:12:54.280 --> 1:12:57.679
<v Speaker 2>that becomes quite difficult. Is there a particular, one single

1:12:57.760 --> 1:13:00.599
<v Speaker 2>action you could take that might just sort of reveal

1:13:00.760 --> 1:13:01.200
<v Speaker 2>all if you.

1:13:01.360 --> 1:13:04.920
<v Speaker 16>Like, if if some of these red flags that have

1:13:05.840 --> 1:13:08.760
<v Speaker 16>alluded to are are there for you, and and you're

1:13:09.000 --> 1:13:12.080
<v Speaker 16>you're struggling with this, maybe you're just realizing that you're

1:13:12.080 --> 1:13:14.800
<v Speaker 16>struggling with this, then then can you can you go

1:13:15.000 --> 1:13:17.720
<v Speaker 16>for a month without placing a bet and and just

1:13:17.840 --> 1:13:20.240
<v Speaker 16>let that money accumulate in a savings account or pay

1:13:20.280 --> 1:13:23.439
<v Speaker 16>down some debt uh and and if you can just

1:13:23.479 --> 1:13:25.240
<v Speaker 16>see what that does for you, see see what it

1:13:25.320 --> 1:13:29.040
<v Speaker 16>does to your emotional state, to your stress levels obviously,

1:13:29.160 --> 1:13:32.439
<v Speaker 16>to your financial position uh and and get yourself out

1:13:32.479 --> 1:13:35.240
<v Speaker 16>of that that debt issue. And and you know when

1:13:35.360 --> 1:13:38.320
<v Speaker 16>when you when you can do sports betting for fun

1:13:38.560 --> 1:13:41.400
<v Speaker 16>and for entertainment and not to to get by because

1:13:41.479 --> 1:13:43.599
<v Speaker 16>one of these red flags, then you know, by all means,

1:13:43.640 --> 1:13:46.120
<v Speaker 16>go back to it. But but don't do this, don't

1:13:46.160 --> 1:13:49.160
<v Speaker 16>carry on and keep betting a month after month or

1:13:49.160 --> 1:13:51.800
<v Speaker 16>week after week. If if you if you're raising some

1:13:51.920 --> 1:13:53.600
<v Speaker 16>of these red flags for yourself.

1:13:53.479 --> 1:13:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that I think that's really good advice,

1:13:55.680 --> 1:13:57.439
<v Speaker 2>just try and see what happens if you stop for

1:13:57.479 --> 1:14:00.720
<v Speaker 2>a month, and then if it's fine, you can go back.

1:14:00.800 --> 1:14:02.519
<v Speaker 2>But just try and see it. And I think that

1:14:02.640 --> 1:14:04.599
<v Speaker 2>often just that time you know it gives you, gives

1:14:04.640 --> 1:14:06.360
<v Speaker 2>people a lot of instead of I know so many

1:14:06.439 --> 1:14:10.040
<v Speaker 2>people who've stopped smoking by keeping one cigarette and saying

1:14:10.080 --> 1:14:11.880
<v Speaker 2>if I needed, I can have it. It's there, and

1:14:12.000 --> 1:14:13.960
<v Speaker 2>somehow it gives them the strength to not go back.

1:14:14.040 --> 1:14:16.439
<v Speaker 2>It's a very interesting thing. Warren, thank you very much,

1:14:16.479 --> 1:14:19.680
<v Speaker 2>indeed really appreciated Personal Finance with Warren Ingram is the

1:14:19.720 --> 1:14:21.679
<v Speaker 2>co founder of Galileo Capital.

1:14:23.760 --> 1:14:26.439
<v Speaker 13>The Money Show Stephen Kruetez is brought to you by

1:14:26.520 --> 1:14:27.439
<v Speaker 13>apps a cib.

1:14:27.960 --> 1:14:29.280
<v Speaker 9>APPS is a registered FSP.

1:14:32.439 --> 1:14:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, still a tough day in the United States, after

1:14:34.880 --> 1:14:37.240
<v Speaker 2>a tough day on the JSC the Dow Jones down

1:14:37.320 --> 1:14:40.200
<v Speaker 2>point eight nine percent, the NAAZAC down one point three

1:14:40.200 --> 1:14:42.840
<v Speaker 2>eight the S and P five hundred down point nine

1:14:42.880 --> 1:14:47.080
<v Speaker 2>to four. All about valuations and tech valuations once again.

1:14:48.360 --> 1:14:51.840
<v Speaker 2>B twenty is starting, of course, just a few bucks

1:14:51.880 --> 1:14:53.760
<v Speaker 2>away from where I'm speaking to you now. We'll have

1:14:53.880 --> 1:14:57.599
<v Speaker 2>live coverage of that tomorrow. Don't forget signat to John

1:14:57.920 --> 1:15:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Pullman and Clement moniett Ella will be live from the

1:15:01.080 --> 1:15:04.200
<v Speaker 2>B twenty tomorrow as well. We'll see you then. Good evening,

1:15:04.280 --> 1:15:04.720
<v Speaker 2>it's it's