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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen Skridis on seven

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Speaker 1: O two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk at all. The Money Show with Stephen Curtis

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Speaker 2: is brought to you by Absent Corporate and Investment Banking PRAN,

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Speaker 2: sponsors of GTR Africa twenty twenty six enabling trade flows

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Speaker 2: for growth abs IS aridgistered FSP. Good evening, I'm Stephen Crotis,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the program. What a calamitous apocalyptic almost Let

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Speaker 2: me keep that word for latest, shall I? I suspect I

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Speaker 2: may need it if this goes on for much longer

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Speaker 2: day On the markets it's been obviously gold price is

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Speaker 2: much weaker, oil price is higher, and as a result

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Speaker 2: that's just had the impact you would expect on the JC.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the JAS was at one point about three

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Speaker 2: weeks ago one hundred and twenty nine thousand, today around

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Speaker 2: one hundred and nine thousand. Just tells you how much

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Speaker 2: value has been wiped off so quickly. To be fair,

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Speaker 2: really past one hundred thousand sort of late last year.

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Speaker 2: So in a way it's kind of easy come, easy go,

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Speaker 2: But of course it's much more complicated, infinitely more complicated

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Speaker 2: than that. I noticed today that several European countries, the UK, Germany, Italy,

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Speaker 2: the Netherlands, France. They said that they would take appropriate steps,

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Speaker 2: they will be part of appropriate efforts to ensure straight,

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Speaker 2: safe passage through the Strait. They're talking about the Strait

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Speaker 2: up Ulmus. They're talking about oil deliveries. So okay, that's fine.

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Speaker 2: I understand why they want to do that. I must

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Speaker 2: just tell you my thinking at the moment. It may change,

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Speaker 2: but my thinking at the moment is that this does

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Speaker 2: nothing to calm down the wall, and in fact will

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Speaker 2: escalate it because now Iran very slow moving, massive oil

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Speaker 2: tankers easy to hit. You just need one missile, one drone,

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Speaker 2: one something to get through. But also you now have

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Speaker 2: a chance to attack the assets of other countries of

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Speaker 2: a British warship or a you know, a Dutch warship,

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Speaker 2: and then what are they now part of it too?

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Speaker 2: So I'm actually almost more concerned than I should be

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Speaker 2: about this. I don't know if you have a view,

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Speaker 2: maybe you've thought about it more strategically on seven two

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Speaker 2: seven two one seven o two, but I do think

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Speaker 2: we're in a space that really is quite frightening. Momentum

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Speaker 2: had quite nice results and also lots going on in

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Speaker 2: their medical aid space. We'll speak to Jeanette Marere, the

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Speaker 2: CEO of Momentum in a couple of moments. Other very

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Speaker 2: interesting story. To see what's happening at Xarro tonight. They

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Speaker 2: had their results out and they speak to Ben Magara,

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Speaker 2: the CEO. There lots of concern of course about Iran

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Speaker 2: oil prices and thus fertilizer prices. To Bila and Kunja

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Speaker 2: is the Agricultural e columnists. We'll hear from Tabile after

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Speaker 2: the six thirty news and then I'm quite looking forward

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Speaker 2: to I think there's so much to talk about about

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Speaker 2: the post office and nush Ruplal is the business rescue

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Speaker 2: practitioner there, and I did think it was important. There's

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Speaker 2: been sort of misreporting. I think that he wants to

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Speaker 2: liquidate the post office. That's not what he wants to do.

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Speaker 2: From what I understand, there was misreporting on that, so

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Speaker 2: I do want to just give him a chance to

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Speaker 2: clear all of that up. Good to hear from you,

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Speaker 2: Double one double A three oh seven two two one

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Speaker 2: four four six oh five sixty seven and voice notes

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Speaker 2: on seven two seven oh two one seven O two.

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Speaker 1: Thelney Show with Stephen Kruders live on ninety two point

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Speaker 1: seven and one O six FM.

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Speaker 2: Streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 3: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: The insurance and investment group Momentum announcing today it's headline

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Speaker 2: earnings up by eight percent in the six months to

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Speaker 2: the end of December. The CEO, Jeanette Marere, is saying

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Speaker 2: today there are now actually chasing Discovery Health. They've won

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Speaker 2: the tender to administer the Bonnie Tass Medical fundl Jeanette

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Speaker 2: Marere is on the line for you now at Jeanette.

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Speaker 2: Good evening and thanks for your time. We all know,

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Speaker 2: I suppose how lucrative managing medical aids can be. You

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Speaker 2: now have a market share in the sector of about

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Speaker 2: thirty percent. How hard do you think you can compete

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Speaker 2: with Discovery.

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Speaker 3: Plead, Stephen, thank you very much and thank you for

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Speaker 3: the opportunity. Well, look, I think the market share that

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Speaker 3: we were specifically referring to is in the health administration area.

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Speaker 3: Of course, there are you know, there are also open

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Speaker 3: schemes that are managed, you know, own open schemes that

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Speaker 3: are managed by businesses. In this case, you know, Discovery

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Speaker 3: have a thirty four percent market share in the administration

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Speaker 3: area and we're on fifty. So I suppose it's not

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Speaker 3: impossible if we win another really big contract, then you know,

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Speaker 3: that would definitely you know, be in our reach. But

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Speaker 3: get maybe rather focus on why the beneath Us need

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Speaker 3: is such a wonderful deal for us, you know, I

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Speaker 3: think firstly, maybe most importantly is the fact that this

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Speaker 3: is the biggest transfer of a medical scheme in the

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Speaker 3: history of South Africa. You know, that is quite significant.

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Speaker 3: Then you know, this adds three hundred and seventy thousand

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Speaker 3: families and seven hundred and fifty thousand beneficiaries to our administration. Now,

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Speaker 3: the first thing when that happens, and you already run

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Speaker 3: a quite efficient business, means you just get incredible scale.

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Speaker 3: So it does put you and in the ability to

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Speaker 3: actually manage this, you know, on a more profitable basis. Now,

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Speaker 3: we've not disclosed what the rates are that we are

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Speaker 3: charging or what the admin fees are that we are

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Speaker 3: charging beneath Us. But of course, you know, beneath Us

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Speaker 3: do publish their own financial statements on their website. And

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Speaker 3: I suppose, you know, if anyone wants to get an idea,

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Speaker 3: you can have a look at that and think that

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Speaker 3: about two thirds of that business will now be under

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Speaker 3: our administration. So it is actually making a very material

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Speaker 3: difference to our momentum health business.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you obviously have lots of people with lots

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Speaker 2: of experience in doing this, but you are taking on

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Speaker 2: people who've really innovated in this space. I mean, what

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Speaker 2: I think it might mean over time for customers is

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Speaker 2: more innovation, I believe.

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Speaker 3: So I hope. So you know, any one of the

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Speaker 3: things that we are doing more and more is the

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Speaker 3: fact that you know, we get more than a million

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Speaker 3: medical clans at the moment with out beneath us, even

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Speaker 3: more than a million medical class per day, and right

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Speaker 3: now we do almost nine hundred percent ninety nine percent

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Speaker 3: of those we do without any human intervention. So I

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Speaker 3: guess that is exactly where we are going. Is that

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Speaker 3: you need to try and make sure that your best

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Speaker 3: people work on value add services for your clients, and

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Speaker 3: that anything that looks like administration, you know, whether it

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Speaker 3: is the loading or forms or anything like that, that

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Speaker 3: you actually bring innovation like AI in in order to

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Speaker 3: get your best people to do what the value add

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Speaker 3: for your clients. And in terms of innovation, yes, I

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Speaker 3: mean it's a very very competitive space. Now in a

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Speaker 3: case like this, we have we need us have its

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Speaker 3: own trustees and you and you have their medical aid board,

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Speaker 3: so you also do and deliver what your clients want

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Speaker 3: and demand. I mean one of the other schemes we

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Speaker 3: manage is the government employee medical scheme GEMS. And there's

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Speaker 3: often services that you know, we think that they might

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Speaker 3: be interested in, and then for their own reasons, they didn't.

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Speaker 3: They don't want this to do. So it is an

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Speaker 3: interesting space. You're not always a master of your own destiny,

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Speaker 3: but we certainly doing quite a lot to innovate in

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Speaker 3: that space.

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Speaker 2: No, sure, I mean I think everyone's going to be

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Speaker 2: watching it very closely. You had quite strong results from

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Speaker 2: what I could see. I mean, it's a good dividend,

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Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, but it's probably to the lower

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Speaker 2: end of the payout range. Is there a reason for that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I suppose I should put this another way.

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Speaker 2: Are you worried about the market volatility? And today is

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Speaker 2: a good day to discuss market volatility?

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Speaker 3: Oh it's a really bad day to discuss market volatility, right, Well,

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Speaker 3: maybe just explain that. So our intradividend, you know, increased

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Speaker 3: by twenty nine percent, so it is an excellent dividend.

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Speaker 3: But why has changed, and that was quite a material change,

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Speaker 3: is that during December, post the Treasury's announcement of the

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Speaker 3: new inflation targets, we saw a once in more than

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Speaker 3: thirty year decline in yields and yield curves. Now, what

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Speaker 3: happens is when you're a life insurer, you have to

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Speaker 3: keep enough capital in liquid assets basically in cash, to

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Speaker 3: be able to pay off every single one of your

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Speaker 3: clients of all of them coming up on your door

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Speaker 3: on one day. So our capital requirements are quite heavy.

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Speaker 3: And the problem is that we try and hedge those

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Speaker 3: liabilities that we have, and you hedge them into the

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Speaker 3: next forty to fifty years because you might have a

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Speaker 3: twenty year old client and we need to make sure

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Speaker 3: that sixty years from now you can actually pay their policy.

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Speaker 3: So when the yields the client like that, it actually

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Speaker 3: changed the capital requirements. We now have to keep more

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Speaker 3: cash because we're getting lower yield. We be invested in

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Speaker 3: order to be able, you know, to fulfill those requirements

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Speaker 3: later on. And all that meant is that we're in

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Speaker 3: as a wealthy position from a capital perspective as we've

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Speaker 3: ever been, but a lot of it now is more

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Speaker 3: typed up in what we would call, you know, capital

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Speaker 3: requirements that you statutory requirements that you have to keep,

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Speaker 3: and therefore we're a little bit more conservative in terms

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Speaker 3: of playout. But what is important last year we changed

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Speaker 3: our divid in plower policy. In the past, the minimum

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Speaker 3: part was thirty three percent to forty. So yes, it's

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Speaker 3: at the bottom end of the range, but our range

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Speaker 3: of moved quite a lot because we had such a

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Speaker 3: positive outlook in terms of the strength of our balance

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Speaker 3: sheet and the capital.

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Speaker 2: Back we called okay, no, sure, I mean that does

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Speaker 2: make sense. Thank you. You've put more money. I mean,

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Speaker 2: let's just talk quickly about the future. You've put more money.

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Speaker 2: I think it's one hundred and ten million round or

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Speaker 2: so into your operations in India obviously a huge market.

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Speaker 2: You've been there for a while now, how much growth

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Speaker 2: are you expecting there?

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Speaker 3: That is the most incredible market. Three weeks ago I

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Speaker 3: actually led a delegation of our board to India to

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Speaker 3: go and have a look for themselves, because you think

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Speaker 3: until you arrive in Mumbai and you see the size

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Speaker 3: of that operation and the size of that market, you

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Speaker 3: actually just have no idea. So it is still the

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Speaker 3: fastest growing medical health insurer in India. Are Ditchabila JD

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Speaker 3: partnership that we have and we are incredibly excited about

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Speaker 3: the growth prospects of that market. I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: if you do any research, you will see that that

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Speaker 3: is the one market where everyone is still predicting, you know,

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Speaker 3: quite a lot of growth. I mean there are literally

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Speaker 3: billions of people in India who still does not participate

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Speaker 3: in the health insurance market. So the opportunities there for

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Speaker 3: us are actually massive. We foresee that in the next

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Speaker 3: probably you know, three four years, we'll probably invest another

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Speaker 3: around about seven hundred million in growth because that businesses

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Speaker 3: not break even. So the investments we make now is

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Speaker 3: actually to help funding to grow even more and even faster.

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Speaker 3: So the Indian market remains a very attractive market for us,

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Speaker 3: and of course it's a good diversification away from South Africa.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Jeanette Maurray, thank you really appreciate the time. The

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Speaker 2: Momentum Group CEO Stephen It's on the Money Show six

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Speaker 2: to eight pm, nineteen minutes after six. Well, the coal

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Speaker 2: and sustainable power producer Exorro reporting their revenue up by

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Speaker 2: three percent for the financial year to the end of December,

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Speaker 2: headline earnings up by eight percent. So during the period

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Speaker 2: there was a decline in global demand for coal, but

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Speaker 2: obviously I think coal prices have gone by around twenty

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Speaker 2: percent since the conflict around Iran started. Ben Magara is

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Speaker 2: the CEO at Exorro Resources. Ben, good evening, Welcome back

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Speaker 2: to the Money Show and thanks for your time. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you obviously export a huge amount of coal. There was

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Speaker 2: oversupply during the financial year that must have impacted your revenues,

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Speaker 2: but now you can probably look forward to higher prices.

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Speaker 4: We are seeing col demand, Steve, so thanks for having me.

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Speaker 4: We are definitely seeing coal demand and the prices have

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Speaker 4: gone up, as you said, twenty percent up. But I

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Speaker 4: think we're very pleased with our performance for last year.

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Speaker 4: It was in a very law export pricing environment where

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Speaker 4: coal prices went down about fourteen to fifteen percent. But

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Speaker 4: Exaro's portfolio has got some very defensive nature within.

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Speaker 2: It because we have.

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Speaker 4: A reasonable annuity from our escom business we run. We

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Speaker 4: supply almost twenty to twenty five percent of core requirements

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Speaker 4: and that gives us the buffer in times when export

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Speaker 4: prices are law. But also we had a very rigorous

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Speaker 4: cost management focus and operational efficiency. We were able to

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Speaker 4: move some of the export coal into local market, into

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Speaker 4: the agricultural sector, the cement sector, so that at least

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Speaker 4: we've got better imagines there than even in the exports.

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Speaker 4: So I think our marketing teams were very agile in responding.

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Speaker 4: We also even moved some of the call into the

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Speaker 4: rest of Africa, into Morocco and put in places like that.

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Speaker 4: So and Japan has been very sticky. So our results

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Speaker 4: today really SHOWCAS a company that is able to be

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Speaker 4: agile in the in the conditions we went through last year.

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Speaker 4: But ESCOM was great for us. Transmit improved eight nine

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Speaker 4: percent Steve, so that helped us improve margins through Richard's

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Speaker 4: Bay because the road tracking margins were too low for

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Speaker 4: the export prices we were getting. Yes, the revenues were

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Speaker 4: up and we're very pleased that we could actually generate

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Speaker 4: ten point six billion ten point two billion of EBIDA

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Speaker 4: in the last year because we reduced costs and we

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Speaker 4: improved on revenues from local demand, especially from the agricultural sector.

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Speaker 2: I mean co prices if you look at it are

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Speaker 2: likely to go up further still, Katar said today and

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Speaker 2: Iranian strike on one of their liquefied natural gas facilities

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Speaker 2: would put seventeen percent of their production out of action

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Speaker 2: for five years. Last year an oversupply of cold You

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Speaker 2: think that picture is now change completely.

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Speaker 5: It is changing completely.

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Speaker 4: What we are seeing right now. Any prolonged and broader

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Speaker 4: regional destabilization in that region disrupts energy security and also

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Speaker 4: about shipping is being compromised, and the tightening global oil

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Speaker 4: and LNGG supply means that customers are looking for increasingly

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Speaker 4: looking for reliance from alternative fuels like coal. So we

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Speaker 4: are seeing coal demand the core plents, they've already gone

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Speaker 4: up from about ninety five dollars a ton before the

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Speaker 4: conflict now to about one hundred and ten hundred and

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Speaker 4: fifteen dollars a ton. Forward cav on on our call

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Speaker 4: from Richard Bay is now gone up to about one

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Speaker 4: twenty five one thirty dollars a ton. So yes, we're

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Speaker 4: seeing that sympathetic influence on coal demand. And it's likely

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Speaker 4: that even when the conflict ends, that the perception of

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Speaker 4: any security lingers even longer, which means more more promise

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Speaker 4: for our cold month, but we remain very focused on

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Speaker 4: diversifying our portfolio to make sure we have got diversified innings,

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Speaker 4: and we're pleased to have announced our manganese transaction, which

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Speaker 4: we closed last month.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you about renewable power in a moment,

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Speaker 2: but I do want to just ask over the longer term,

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Speaker 2: some Eskan power stations didn't sort of off take to

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Speaker 2: the same amount. They weren't being run as hard. How

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Speaker 2: do you see this process sort of playing out? We

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Speaker 2: used to be almost totally reliant on coal. Over time,

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Speaker 2: we're becoming sort of lesser. I mean a long time,

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Speaker 2: you know. I mean it's your renewables business growing quickly

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Speaker 2: enough to insulate you from that.

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Speaker 4: Yes, we are growing quite extensively. Last year, we doubled

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Speaker 4: our renewable energy business. From two hundred megawatts of wind power,

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Speaker 4: we're now at five hundred megawatts. We are expecting with

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Speaker 4: some of the projects we've already put in, to be

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Speaker 4: at nine hundred megawatt by the end of twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 4: Some of that is that we're feeding our own coal mines,

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Speaker 4: which reduces our on scope to emissions because then we're

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Speaker 4: buying green electrons into our coal mines. That has reduced

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Speaker 4: both emissions by about seventeen to twenty five percent and

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Speaker 4: reduced our own electricity costs by about one hundred million

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Speaker 4: runs per year, and we're seeing that happening everywhere. The

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Speaker 4: benefit for Exiro, however, is that even though we supply

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Speaker 4: twenty to ten five percent of South Africa's call into

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Speaker 4: the electricity grid fores COM, we also run we supply

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Speaker 4: two of s COM's lowest cost producing power stations in

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Speaker 4: terms of electricity, which is my Timber and.

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Speaker 2: Madupi, which means actually they are.

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Speaker 4: On the lowest cost curve, are the power stations that

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Speaker 4: must run it full capacity because they could actually help

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Speaker 4: reduce costs because they had the lowest costs. And we

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Speaker 4: continue to see that. Last year the demand reduced a

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Speaker 4: little bit on my Timber power station by one million times.

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Speaker 4: But this year we are seeing all the units at

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Speaker 4: my Timber and made duple running flat out, which means

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Speaker 4: more more more opportunities.

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Speaker 2: For EXIROS operations there. We have heard from plenty of

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Speaker 2: CEOs and if you look through company reports you see

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Speaker 2: it anyone who can finding a way to get their

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Speaker 2: power not from ESCAM because of eskam's prices and not

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Speaker 2: from the local council. You must see a lot of

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Speaker 2: demand for it.

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Speaker 4: There is definitely reduced demand. And also it's not just

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Speaker 4: possibly reduced demand, it's also there's there's increased alternative sources

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Speaker 4: of energy, and I think we're going to continue to

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Speaker 4: see that because it's helpful for the country to bring

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Speaker 4: in these lower cost electricity. It's it's good for the

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Speaker 4: economic growth, it's good for job opportunities. Uh So, I

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Speaker 4: think it's something that we are very pleased that they've

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Speaker 4: announced the increased potential for I p P in the country. However,

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Speaker 4: I think we also should be aware that the the

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Speaker 4: what they've announced in terms of the old powers stations

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Speaker 4: continuing to run their running at much higher cost. They

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Speaker 4: are running them as efficient as can, but obviously they

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Speaker 4: are more higher costs. So in the end it must

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Speaker 4: benefit consumers and it's good to have lower prices. So

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Speaker 4: I think we'll continue to see these IPPs coming in

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Speaker 4: and we'll continue to see es come also mutating. We

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Speaker 4: know there's this wholesale facility that they are trying to

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Speaker 4: set up, and I think that will all that operating

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Speaker 4: company that will help in selling the energy into the

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Speaker 4: greed for anyone who wants to produce.

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Speaker 2: Ben Magarra, thanks very much. Indeed, the ceoled Exarro Resources

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Speaker 2: ready to appreciate the time. Tonight, twenty six minutes after

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Speaker 2: six the Money Show, Grant Natives Portfolio Manager, Benguela Global

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Speaker 2: Fund Managers Grant, Wow, the jac I mean, what was

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Speaker 2: it three weeks ago? They all share one hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty nine thousand, today around one hundred and nine thousand.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the impact of the Iranian conflicts just been massive.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, believing Stephen, we we have sertain, we have been

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Speaker 6: hit hard. You know, they all shared down fourteen percent

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Speaker 6: month today, that's well beyond the correction level, and it's

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Speaker 6: now down nearly five percent year to date, so so

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Speaker 6: really significant. I mean, I guess we can't. We must

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Speaker 6: also appreciate that it is still up about twenty five

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Speaker 6: percent on a like a twelve month basis, so it's

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Speaker 6: not all doom and gloom, and we've had a you know,

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Speaker 6: it's maybe a healthy correction hopefully, but really the emergent

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Speaker 6: market investment thesis is being reassessed aggressively, and a lot

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Speaker 6: of foreign selling of our market unwinding of positions that's

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Speaker 6: playing out as a consequence of this Middle East blow up.

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Speaker 6: And you know, you sing it in yields, you sing

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Speaker 6: it in the currency. You seeing it in the across

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Speaker 6: the board, but most notably in the resources, precious metals

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Speaker 6: in particular. If I look at gold bolded down thirteen

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Speaker 6: percent for the month, and this is really what we

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Speaker 6: would have thought would be a sort of more defensive

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Speaker 6: safe haven and gold and platinum are now the but

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Speaker 6: you know, combined the biggest sort of sector, the precious metals,

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Speaker 6: the biggest sector of the index. The two of them

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Speaker 6: are down, I mean, platinums down eighteen percent. So you know,

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Speaker 6: on a month to myth basis, we've been hammered predominantly,

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Speaker 6: led by the resources and the precious metals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's quite something, Egxara, I mean, in a way,

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Speaker 2: coal prices is a big factor for them. But all

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Speaker 2: in all are strong update, Yeah.

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Speaker 6: A very strong update, and you haven't even seen the

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Speaker 6: tip of the the potential iceberg in terms of these

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Speaker 6: coal prices.

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Speaker 2: Their average cold you.

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Speaker 6: Know, looking at their coal prices from last year, so

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Speaker 6: sort of in the eighties and nineties, that's what they

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Speaker 6: realized in these results. The forward price contracts now are

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Speaker 6: closer to one hundred and twenty five dollars a time,

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Speaker 6: so significantly higher than anything that's baked into these financials.

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Speaker 6: We must remember that Zara doesn't benefit entirely from that,

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Speaker 6: because I think they have a lot of cost plus

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Speaker 6: contracts with s Com. But they do export just over

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Speaker 6: seven million of their forty one million odd tons of

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Speaker 6: production overseas, and that's going straight into the bottom line

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Speaker 6: or those so thirty thirty odd percent kicker there, and yeah,

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Speaker 6: so solid. It's a massive cash generator. They're still sitting

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Speaker 6: on over ten billion in cash. I mean, for me,

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Speaker 6: the jury is still out on this transition to renewables

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Speaker 6: and manganese and all this diversification of yet to see

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Speaker 6: that transform the business, but I think they are at

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Speaker 6: least working on it, and they have a plan, and

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Speaker 6: so it's a it's a steady as she goes. I'm

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Speaker 6: at the state.

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Speaker 2: An investig had a pre close trading statement. They were

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Speaker 2: predicting an increase in headline earnings per share of between

395
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Speaker 2: zero and two percent.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, a little bit, a little bit flat. Their bit

397
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Speaker 6: of a disappointment. But I think if you look at

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Speaker 6: the two different If you look at FA and you

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Speaker 6: look at the UK, essay actually delivered a lot stronger results.

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Speaker 6: The wealth management business there continues to power ahead, significant

401
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Speaker 6: growth in their in their assets under management or their

402
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Speaker 6: funds management, and the balance sheet loans are growing nicely,

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Speaker 6: so they're doing okay. There the sort of weakness coming

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Speaker 6: through in the UK bank you know, the credit loss

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Speaker 6: ratio ticking to the upper end, so they're in a

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Speaker 6: different part of the cycle to SA.

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Speaker 2: Where we're all at the lower end of those rates.

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Speaker 7: But the wealth.

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Speaker 6: Management rat bones business seems to be doing okay, so

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Speaker 6: it's it's a mixed result. I think they'd be disappointed

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Speaker 6: that they're not delivering better returns on equity in terms

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Speaker 6: of their target, but at least they've got that diversification.

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Speaker 8: You know, you've got one ESSA.

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Speaker 2: Holding up well.

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Speaker 6: As the UK has actually been in a very tough

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Speaker 6: spot from a macroeconomic basis over the past few years,

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Speaker 6: and that recovery now is potentially being you know, it's

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Speaker 6: potentially being installed again by what's happening globally with rates

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Speaker 6: and oil et cetera. So it's probably going to be

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Speaker 6: tough for a while. Store as they stands for the for.

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Speaker 2: Invest grant NATA. Thanks so much about folio manager Beinguelle

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Speaker 2: Global Fund Managers. Ten seconds after six thirty seven two

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Speaker 2: with Stephen.

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Speaker 8: Email him on Stephen at seven O two dot co DOTZ.

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Speaker 2: Twenty minutes now to seven the time. Well, one of

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Speaker 2: the consequences of the conflict around Iran is that far

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Speaker 2: fertilizer prices are going to rise. I didn't know this

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Speaker 2: when I woke up this morning, but it turns out

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Speaker 2: fertilizer is about thirty five percent of a grain farmer's

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Speaker 2: inputcasts to be Tabila and Kunta is the agricultural economist

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Speaker 2: on the line. Now, Tabilla, good evening to appreciate the time.

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Speaker 2: I mean, oil is crucial to fertilize, crucial to its price.

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Speaker 2: What are we expecting to happen?

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Speaker 9: Good evening to Stephen and the listeners. Yeah, so you know,

435
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 9: the there's a number of things that I think a

436
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 9: lot of people don't get to regular following these things

437
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 9: and out of the situation that isn' immediately is as

438
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 9: much as it has been said that the issues around

439
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 9: oid and guesses are the problem, but there's also another

440
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 9: fact is effect that that region is mostly guests producers

441
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 9: of the fertilizer because of specifically the guess and the

442
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 9: oil that it has. Because those components they are the key.

443
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 9: Actually they can be about fifty percent of the products

444
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 9: I mean of the of the properties that you use

445
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 9: to create fertilizer. And that is the why we are

446
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 9: seeing the skill that you're seeing in terms of the prices,

447
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 9: because for instance, fertilizers have increased about th five to

448
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 9: forty percent of different countries because of the shutdowns in

449
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 9: some of the producing areas. So that has set us

450
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 9: implications not only now for fertilizer kinds that are buying

451
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 9: like South Africa, we are buying about eighty percent of

452
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,919
Speaker 9: our fertilizer to the world ail almost hundred percent, and

453
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 9: that has deal implication for the food that we're gonna

454
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 9: produce because that is gonna lead to lower yields and

455
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 9: eventually everything else is gonna go up due to inflation.

456
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: So as I understand that farmers are price takers, they

457
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,239
Speaker 2: can't necessarily just put up the price of grain. So

458
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: if they then have to pay a lot more for fertilizer,

459
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: what happens.

460
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 9: Is a simple math studient is a simple math because

461
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 9: you'll remember what happened during the conflict.

462
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:08,959
Speaker 2: And in Russia.

463
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, Russia is the biggest export of fertilizers. It is

464
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 9: the biggest supplier for South Africa, leading at thirty five

465
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 9: percent of last year in terms of the share. Now,

466
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 9: when a situation like an increasing prices like we saw,

467
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 9: it really eventually gotten to a point where we saw

468
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 9: records in terms of our food inmplasion that we're buying

469
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 9: because eventually that is going to be transferred to the

470
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 9: consumers because farmers can absorb as much.

471
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: But unfortunately for now, for instance.

472
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 9: Scrude oil, it's already above the levels we saw during

473
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 9: the peak of the war in the conflict in the

474
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 9: Bilexy between Ukraine and Russia. So at this stage, because

475
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 9: of the implications and of course that the region is

476
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 9: important into this, it is higher than that. So all

477
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 9: those things they do have implications and farmers, unfortunately they're

478
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 9: going to have to buy this fertilizer at inflated price.

479
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 9: But then eventually that is going to have to be done,

480
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 9: you know, to the constu must but not immediately, even

481
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 9: I want to mention that not immediately.

482
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 2: Eventually it's going to happen as you saw that.

483
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 9: It took some few months when you picked to you know,

484
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 9: it got on the COVID and then actually in all

485
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 9: those kind of situations that we had, the bottlenots and

486
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 9: the supply change there, so.

487
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 2: The implications I mean, I realized that food price inflation. Okay, firstly,

488
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: it's been coming down. It's down I think a three

489
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 2: point seven percent in yesterday's figure that's from February. Although

490
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: we also discussed this last night and I'm sure you

491
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: saw it's to your theobald sort of understanding of why

492
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: food price inflation shop rights juster point seven percent. I

493
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: can pay a bit higher than that. So oil prices high.

494
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 2: Higher oil prices impact food prices in many different ways.

495
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 2: So the oil fuel that farmers use, fertilizer costs, and

496
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 2: all the rest. For the moment, Yeah, what does the

497
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 2: outlook for food price inflation?

498
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, we're looking to some some sertus situations were still

499
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 9: in discharged as well as trying to explain in terms

500
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 9: of the implications because of the importancy of that or

501
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 9: of that origin. Because the reality is as much as

502
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 9: we've seen these disruptions before, but the skill that is escalating.

503
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 9: I can tell you that a number of countries already,

504
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 9: you know, one being the biggest produce of cause, a

505
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 9: commodity that is used to about seventy percent or sometimes

506
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 9: sixty percent of the fetters of production is closed today

507
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 9: yesterday actually since the strike that was made by Israel

508
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 9: in Kata.

509
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: That is cerus applications.

510
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 9: And not only for that, because now even the components

511
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 9: because you remember you already is one of the components

512
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 9: that is used, that is what they to be supplied

513
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 9: to other countries to produce their own fertilizers.

514
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 2: That has implications then that all of.

515
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 9: Those when you are to add them up, they are

516
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 9: leading to a disaster that is going to be infasion

517
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 9: in food and not only in food because of the

518
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 9: situation around the transportation as you mentioned that the transportation

519
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 9: of these things, and we are looking to an increase

520
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 9: in architetiser. I was talking to some of the key

521
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 9: stakeholders within the fineral space. Uh, they are really saying

522
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 9: that even the seven person that some of us are saying,

523
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 9: it might be even higher depending on a couple of situations.

524
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 9: So it's a it's a potentially higher you know, our

525
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 9: plan in terms of the fertilized sort of the inflation

526
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 9: that you're gonna probably see stim But as I want

527
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 9: to again, I don't want to be sounding alarmists, but

528
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 9: it is a fact that eventually, with time, you know,

529
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 9: because these things they just don't quickly, you know, our

530
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 9: pit get to be reflected on the food. But with time,

531
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 9: and of course, and how long this is gonna it's

532
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 9: gonna take, because even if this stops to day stiven,

533
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 9: you'll remember that it's gonna take several months or even

534
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 9: years for some countries to recoup and also to recover

535
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 9: the infrastructure. And then we get to get to our

536
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 9: locally and normal supplies of all these things. And that

537
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 9: has implications for the food and also for the production

538
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 9: of it generally, because some food are produced with the

539
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 9: cost and then one those products are not there to

540
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 9: be produced in US. That is going to have a situation.

541
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 9: Even those who loveted that for now we have large

542
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 9: crops in the maze and the sunflowers, so have beans

543
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 9: you know, coming up. But eventually, where as well country

544
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 9: you don't have so much influence into that in terms

545
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 9: of the prices.

546
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: Tabillian Kunja, thanks so much, ready to appreciate the time

547
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: the agricultural economists well, unfortunate, but it looks like we

548
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: are going to see higher prices for food and all

549
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: sorts of other things because of what's happening in Iran.

550
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 2: I mean, your views on the conflict generally seven two

551
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: seven two one seven two thirteen minutes ninety seven.

552
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 10: The money Show, Stupid Crotes is brought to you by

553
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 10: Appsolve Corporate and Investment backing proud sponsors of GTR Africa

554
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 10: twenty twenty six enabling trade flows for growth APS is aridited.

555
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: Every eleven minutes to seven. Well, have there been various

556
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: claims and I think misreporting frankly, that the business rescue

557
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: practitioners at the Post Office have proposed to be liquidated. Now, look,

558
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: they have asked for for quite a lot of money

559
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 2: from the National Treasury. They haven't got it and I

560
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: can't imagine how you fix it without the money. And

561
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 2: they have been warning that this financial position is just

562
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: getting worse. Well, we'll hear from min Lal, the business

563
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: rescue practitioner there in just a sec But the former CEO,

564
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: Mark Barnes has been talking about this and he of

565
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: course was at the Post office. Mark, good evening. I mean,

566
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: you seem quite I don't know, worried, frustrated about the

567
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: position the Post Office is in at the moment.

568
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 8: Stephen, thanks for the interesting I think they have to

569
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 8: first of all, I understand the root cause of its,

570
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 8: you know, financial demise. If I can not be too predictive,

571
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 8: and that is this. You know, first of all, you

572
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 8: know First Bank was taken out of the Post Office

573
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 8: for no consideration, okay, And in fact that's my understanding.

574
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 8: And in fact, you know in the what was in

575
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 8: the promulgated which was the sole excan Post Bank Limited

576
00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 8: Amendment Act twenty twenty two, which is essentially in the

577
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 8: creation of post Bank as a separate bank. They raised

578
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 8: in their own memorandum the fact that the separation of

579
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 8: post Bank out of Stopper is going to have a

580
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 8: material effect on the viability of Stopper. This is written

581
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 8: in an an apt document, okay. But yet I don't

582
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 8: think there was any consideration. So that's the first point.

583
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 8: The next thing is that you have to try to

584
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 8: understand that in twenty nineteen, the last order it becomes

585
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 8: in March. I left in July. There was four and

586
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 8: a half billion in money market fronts which was required

587
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 8: to be there to support the National Treasury guarantee for

588
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 8: the depositors in post Bank, and there was a further

589
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 8: cash and other cash balances like balances of another.

590
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: Six point two bullies.

591
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 8: So there's like ten and a half billion of assets

592
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 8: cash near liquid assets and no debt. Now, how did

593
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,239
Speaker 8: you get forget about the operating losses? How did you

594
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 8: get from there? Mid twenty nineteen to twenty twenty three ish,

595
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 8: when the when the BRPS came in and have to

596
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 8: write off seven point four billion of debt when you

597
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 8: started with nothing, no debt and ten and a half

598
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 8: billion of acids and you've just got another two point

599
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 8: three billion of a capital injection, and they've been subsequent

600
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,959
Speaker 8: to other injections. So you know, you really at an

601
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 8: unexplained hole there, which which is impossible to fall.

602
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: First point.

603
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 8: Second point is that when the br PS does come in,

604
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 8: it seems to me they just took what I might

605
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 8: describe as the pen solution. You know, they just, you know,

606
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 8: let's cancel this debt. So they wrote off creditor's got

607
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 8: twelve cents in the round, you know, death that put next,

608
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 8: and so you got to okay, that's not that doesn't

609
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 8: require any you know, insight or management capability or deep understanding.

610
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 8: It's just a pen. You've got to going to write

611
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 8: this off. You're going to get twelve cents in the

612
00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 8: round and those goodites, including pensions, all those kinds of things.

613
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 8: The first problem I have with that is that this

614
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 8: is a state owned entity, you know, not meeting its

615
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 8: debt obligation. So that's my first problem. And then for

616
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 8: the rest of it, they just you know, sold assets

617
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 8: and fired workers. Well that's only a turnaround strategy for

618
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 8: which they've been paid so far in excess of two

619
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 8: hundred and fifty million rand, the most of which about

620
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 8: one hundred and fifty of that is to consultants. Now,

621
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 8: if you arrived there as the business rescue practitioner and

622
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 8: you have to pay one hundred and fifteen million people

623
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 8: to people to advise you, then I mean who are

624
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 8: you in the first place? I mean, aren't you supposed

625
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 8: to do this? So I'm a little way that there's

626
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 8: an unfilled gap, so that we are we are trying

627
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 8: to analyze and correct something on the surface when there's

628
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 8: a much deeper explanation which first has to be had

629
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 8: and then you know, to finish off a long answer,

630
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 8: all organizations reach a point of no return where the

631
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 8: fundamental construct, which was the physical footprint and the various

632
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 8: government interfaces and so on that that made that gave

633
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 8: the Post Office the raised on detra that it had

634
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 8: have pretty much disappeared. So if it does get saved,

635
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 8: it's another thing, not the thing it was or the

636
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 8: thing that I hoped could have made it.

637
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: Mark Barnes, thank you to the former CEO at the

638
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: Post Office. Well An ropell is the business rescue practitioner

639
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 2: there a nurse. Good evening. If you would like to

640
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: reply to that, you can in a moment. But I

641
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: do just need to start with the liquidation issue because

642
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: it's being reported quite widely. Are you actually seriously saying

643
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: to the Communications Ministry the Post Office must be liquidated.

644
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 7: Good evening, Steven, and goody to your listeners. Thanks for

645
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 7: having me on the show. So Stephen, I think the

646
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 7: matter goes backception of the adoption of the Businesses You Plan,

647
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 7: and I think we've we've got to start there in

648
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 7: order to answer this question. In fact, the Businesses Toe

649
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 7: Plan was adopted on seventh of December twenty twenty three,

650
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 7: and that's suffectively. When really the businesses Que practitioners work

651
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 7: had started. Just to remind you and the listeners, you know,

652
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 7: what was in tegnal part of the Businesses to Plan

653
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 7: was the provision of funding of two point four billion

654
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 7: and three point eight billions. That was the two tranches

655
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 7: and that was specifically included in the Businesses to Plan,

656
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 7: but prior to that, it was included in the court

657
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 7: application to convert the liquidation back then the provision liquidation

658
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 7: into the SQUE so that the brps could then you know,

659
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 7: commence with their work so that the two point four

660
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 7: billion was received. The three point eight billion up to

661
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 7: now has not been received. And like I said, it

662
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 7: was an integral part of the plan which was adopted

663
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 7: and approved by CREDITED and became binding on all affected

664
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 7: persons which includes the shareholder which in this case it's

665
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 7: the government. Unfortunately, those moneys have never come whilst through

666
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 7: our business initiatives, you know, we implemented a whole host

667
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 7: of initiatives to stabilize the entity and and basically put

668
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 7: it on a course so that it can pay its

669
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 7: debts in the normal cost of business. The three point

670
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 7: eight billion was the integral part for working capital as

671
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 7: well as you know, enhancing the capital infrastructure of sort

672
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 7: of the infrastructure of post office. So what I've done

673
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 7: time has elapsed. It's now, you know, two years later

674
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 7: and the Post Office can only survive with the limited

675
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 7: funds that it has. So in our session we where

676
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 7: we are now the companies at the companies at Chapter

677
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,919
Speaker 7: six specifically compelled the business discut practitioners to consider where

678
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 7: that there is the usible prospect of success and that

679
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 7: is something that we have to consider. We did receive

680
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 7: confirmation from the Minister in December of twenty twenty five

681
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 7: that there is no funding. And you know, we have

682
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 7: done a lot of work by working with the Shoulder,

683
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 7: which by the way, it's not what the PRP's duty

684
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 7: to do so because the provision of the funds should

685
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 7: have come from the shareholder. But nonetheless we assisted, we

686
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 7: obliged reprotocols. It's three budget speech later. This speech is

687
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 7: later helping help having submitted submissions and you know we

688
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 7: have not received this funding. So yeah, unfortunately the companies

689
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 7: that compels us to consider when there's no further funding

690
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 7: to meet day to day you know, claims and credit attainments,

691
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 7: like we've got to consider a liquidation position. We have

692
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 7: not filed with any courts. We have, you know, through correspondence,

693
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 7: liaised with the department in the minister inless regards.

694
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 2: So, I mean, the argument from from Mark Barnes is

695
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: that money is just sort of disappeared. Now, I understand

696
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 2: that when you took over, you took over a loss

697
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: making institution, so you would expect that money would disappear.

698
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: But it is I mean, and I don't know if

699
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: there's another interpretation on the numbers, but it does sound

700
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: like a lot.

701
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 7: It certainly is a lot.

702
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 5: So this is it's a very important strategic.

703
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 7: State on assety. Now it's a state on entity like

704
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 7: any other state on entity, and it is dependent on

705
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 7: government for funding. It is also governed by the PFMA,

706
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 7: the Public Finance Management Act, and we've got the Companies

707
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 7: Act as well. And I'll explain later how this even

708
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 7: complicates the business rescue process. But you're having all of

709
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 7: this legislation in place. We stepped in, and I think

710
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 7: it's important to understand that the BRPS did not cause

711
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 7: all of this. When we stepped in, we found an

712
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 7: energy there was in provisional liquidation in the word that

713
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 7: I like to use it regutted. There was no movement,

714
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 7: there was no one working. Everything was a status stance.

715
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,479
Speaker 7: So there was circa nine billion do worth of debt

716
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 7: on the balance sheet and one of the key things

717
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 7: that we had to do as part of the business

718
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 7: escue process was to get creditors to prove their claims,

719
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 7: and based on that we then had to, you know,

720
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 7: in as part of the business estue plan. We had

721
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 7: enterity to a compromise with these because if we hadn't

722
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 7: done that, equidation would have been the shorting, you know,

723
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty three.

724
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 2: So I suppose the obvious question that comes out of

725
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: all of this is is the post office still worth

726
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: rescuing and is it worth the three point eight billion

727
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: round that you're asking for now. I would accept and

728
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: expect a government always subsidize a service like a post office.

729
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 2: We've heard from a professor actually worked at the un

730
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: studying post offices. She said that our post office should

731
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 2: really become sort of centers of commerce for people in

732
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: rural areas. I hear no vision from anyone about what

733
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 2: it would look like, and I think if someone is

734
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 2: able to give that compelling vision, I think government might

735
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 2: be tempted to do it unless, of course, we do

736
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 2: what's happened with you know, bits of translate and things

737
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: have some sort of private partner.

738
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 7: She could We believe as business as you pray dishes

739
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 7: that we have provided this vision and perhaps more. And

740
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 7: I think maybe the starting point is that maybe that

741
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 7: the general public is viewing the relevance of the post

742
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 7: office incorrectly. You've got to and using the yard stick,

743
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 7: using traditional mail as the yardstick, consider startles relevancy. You

744
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 7: know that's not correct. One needs to look at the

745
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 7: potential that it has the ability to be a government

746
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 7: service centers, but more important, the ability to diversify the business.

747
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 7: If you look at and I certainly agree with your comments,

748
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 7: if you look at other post office in the world,

749
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 7: they saw this trend coming. The decline of traditional mail

750
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 7: was certainly there, and all post officers exhibited off that

751
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 7: and diversified their business into digital services, financial services, et cetera.

752
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 7: Now the Post Office was unfortunately too slow to do that.

753
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 7: Hence it's troubled. They had a bloated workforce expenses with

754
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 7: exceeding revenue regularly, which cont digit to the downfall. And

755
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 7: in addition to that, previous leadership of the Post Office

756
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 7: ignored the vital signs that existed. We had a bloated workforce.

757
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 7: For example, the trancement what you know, it's a horrible thing.

758
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 7: Should have been done under previous leadership. It should have

759
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 7: been further investment in the infrastructure of the business, which

760
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 7: it clearly wasn't. And that's the problem. If we inherited

761
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 7: this very valuable what I believe is valuable state assets

762
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 7: that has not had for the investment into this business.

763
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 7: And sorry, sorry if I may, we benchmark the post

764
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 7: Office against other global operators. This is exactly the approach

765
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 7: they followed, and our Business Rescue Plan talks about this

766
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 7: in terms of modernizing post office. Recent changes to the

767
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 7: Essay Post Office SSC the Post Office sc Act actually

768
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 7: allows for digitalization modernization of the post Office, which dovetails

769
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 7: and talks to even turn around strategy document that the

770
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 7: Businesses to practitioners have presented, you know, to Vierga stakeholders.

771
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 5: Plow.

772
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: It's a long, complicated story. We do have to leave

773
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 2: it there. I'm afraid au pl is the business Rescue

774
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 2: practitioner at the Essay Post Office. Before that, you heard

775
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: from Mark Barnes's former CEO. There it is I'm Afraid

776
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 2: a minute after seven o'clock.

777
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

778
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: o two.

779
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 2: Let's walk at all. The Money Show with Stephen Curtis

780
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 2: is brought to you by Absent Corporate and Investment Banking,

781
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 2: proud sponsors of GTR Africa twenty twenty six, enabling trade

782
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 2: Flows for Growth. ABS is a registered FSP. Eight minutes

783
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 2: after seven. When you heard that conversation about the post office,

784
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 2: I don't know where you stand on it. I mean,

785
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: I have memories of using the post office for the

786
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: first time. I have memories of using it in fact

787
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 2: as a student quite often. I have memories of receiving

788
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 2: post and letters, handwritten letters from my parents, from my

789
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: family when I was overseas as a younger person and

790
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: very much another life. Have all of those memories. I

791
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 2: often find myself reading, you know, histories, and and all

792
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: of it is recounted by letter because the letters were kept.

793
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 2: So there is something kind of quite deep running through

794
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 2: the post office. And when was it formed I think

795
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: seventeen ninety two or thereabout, for the first time, So

796
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 2: I mean, we need to do something. I just I

797
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 2: don't know what and I mean I think the argument

798
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: about where money went is important, but I think we

799
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: far more important might be what we do with the

800
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 2: future of the post office. We need to do something,

801
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 2: and for the moment, I just don't see it anyway.

802
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: I'd appreciate your voice notes on that I know seven

803
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 2: two seven O two one seven oh two. We'll speak

804
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: to see Pomelele Zoondie in a moment our tech expert

805
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: lots going on around data centers, Bololani Bala Balla and

806
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: small businesses, also talking about AI and small businesses. And

807
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 2: then in Investment School tonight a Dr William Wright and

808
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: viv Governda they'll be talking about why similar investment strategies

809
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: can behave completely differently when the market environment changes. Really

810
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 2: an interesting conversation gets to the heart of actual investing.

811
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 2: So looking forward to that, I must just tell you

812
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: good to hear from you on a double one double

813
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: A three oh seven O two two one four four

814
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 2: six five six seven The.

815
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 1: LNY Show with Stephen Kruts Live on ninety two point

816
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 1: seven and one o six FM, streaming on the Prime

817
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: Media Plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

818
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 2: The money show take Thursday. Well, with huge amounts of

819
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: data being processed, I mean, particularly with artificial intelligence, all

820
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 2: sorts of concerns about where it can actually be stored.

821
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 2: MTN are getting involved in this. Where do you store

822
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: this stuff? In video the chip maker they say, I'm

823
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: really not making this up. They're working on a solution

824
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 2: that will move the data centers or planet Earth. I

825
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 2: didn't know Elon Musk was involved with them. See Pomelella

826
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 2: is the take experts to Promela houses in Vidia going

827
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: off planets really.

828
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 5: Hello Stephen and so yes and video thing that they're

829
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 5: thinking about the future solution right, that's going to build

830
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 5: these data sensors out in space. You do know that

831
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 5: data sensors need a lot of space down here on

832
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 5: Earth and a lot of space on the ground. They

833
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 5: may use a lot of resources down on the ground.

834
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 5: And they're saying the main solution is or the best

835
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 5: solution before these in future to be yeah, floating up

836
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 5: in the air, really up in space.

837
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean, okay, would it be that easy? I

838
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: realized that launch costs have come down. I presume you

839
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 2: would use solar panels to run these things. But still

840
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 2: all sorts of issues and we mustn't forget to Promelela.

841
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 2: There is the issue of time lag.

842
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 5: There are many other issues. And also remember that these spaces,

843
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 5: think of your the computer that you use, it needs

844
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 5: something to pull it down, and it also needs people

845
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 5: to services or to services almost immediately. So beyond those issues,

846
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 5: and also an issue of costs as well, a cost

847
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 5: of running a data center that you can't physically reach it.

848
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 5: And then and actually Vida has tried to answer this

849
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 5: and they're saying they are aware of some of these issues,

850
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 5: but as they plan, they're trying to figure out ways

851
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 5: of how it can be done easily in future. They're

852
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 5: saying that this is because essentially and Viada is the

853
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 5: main provider of microchips that I use of tips rather

854
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 5: that I use in in AI all sorts of tips.

855
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 5: And this is because they started to plan ahead or

856
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 5: before everyone thought that artificial intelligence was so we're going

857
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 5: to be And they're saying that this is the next

858
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 5: step that they're playing planning for as one of the

859
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 5: leaders in some of in being a tech provider in

860
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 5: US official intelligence.

861
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: I mean the issue is so basically that would mean

862
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 2: my phone number is living on a server on you know,

863
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 2: in a satellite somewhere and all of that information is there,

864
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: It would be very easy say, I don't know South

865
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: Africa was at war with I don't know North Korea

866
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 2: or someone. I mean, you just be able to take

867
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 2: up a satellite and bring bring our economy to a hold.

868
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 5: And is that not the issue right now in terms

869
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 5: of like who holds and owns this information that is

870
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 5: sitting in various places and also the information by the way,

871
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 5: that even sitting in countries that are here down here

872
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 5: on earths, various countries where countries are saying, well, if

873
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 5: you build the data center where you are building it,

874
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 5: who then owns the information? So now when it's up

875
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 5: in space, who owes the information? Is it the companies

876
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 5: that's where the company is registered? Is it the governments

877
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 5: of the citizens who have decided to upload this information

878
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 5: and over there? And as you say, we there are

879
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,439
Speaker 5: countries that war right now, how easy is it going

880
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 5: to to be to infiltrate some of this information that's

881
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 5: happen space.

882
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 2: Well, I mean you could also just sort of filter

883
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: it as it goes up. MTN they have their own

884
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 2: AI data plans. Hopefully they're staying on the ground.

885
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 5: They're saying on the ground for now, they're saying that

886
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 5: they're thinking of AI data centers and as there's are

887
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 5: largely going to be in South Africa and Nigeria, that's

888
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 5: what they're thinking of at the moment, and they're planning

889
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 5: to as they're also moving ahead with planning for more

890
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 5: AI and AI technologies that are going to need a

891
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 5: lot of data to be stored, and they're saying that

892
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 5: they're just thinking of South Africa and Nigeria at the moment.

893
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 2: I mean, these data centers use a huge amount of

894
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 2: energy and oh, I don't know if this can really

895
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 2: be resolved. I mean, and when we see we, for example,

896
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: people saying they're going to build data centers in Durban,

897
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: but there's no sense that the electricity crisis around that

898
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 2: or the interest the problem or question rather has been

899
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: resolved at all.

900
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 5: Well that's been the thing, right, So where you find

901
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 5: that in a lot of these countries where data centers

902
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 5: are being built, especially when it's outside your global North,

903
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 5: because there quite a lot of them in the global

904
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 5: South countries, whether it's South America. Now Africa is becoming

905
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 5: a place that many want to build these AI data centers,

906
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 5: and it actually becomes because there has been situations where

907
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 5: the question has been the people of the place don't

908
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 5: have water, they are using water to be powered up,

909
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 5: or the people of the era don't have electricity, but

910
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,399
Speaker 5: they need electricity to be powered up. And there has

911
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 5: been various groupings and troops that are raising worry about

912
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 5: this on whether this is not going to be a

913
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 5: priority to prioritize a data center and to even build

914
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 5: backup systems for it and use the power and some

915
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 5: of the other resources including water by the way, some

916
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 5: of that that's a lot of citizen in South Africa's

917
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 5: been struggled with and and it's going to be prioritized

918
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 5: and it's going to go to the data centers and

919
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 5: what the solution would they would be they if there

920
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 5: is such a case, and renewables is what a're discussing

921
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 5: right now. And but how much can you do with

922
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 5: renewables with the amount of energy that they need?

923
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 2: Sure, uh Stanleb got the green light a little while

924
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 2: ago to buy African data centers had belonged to Casava Technologies.

925
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 2: What's I mean this deal clearly is quite important?

926
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 5: Oh totally. So they have been in partnership since last

927
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 5: year right, that's Casava Technologies and Standards, so Standard came

928
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 5: became a data center, a partner. They're calling them the

929
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 5: African Data centers, but it's in fact there's a deal

930
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 5: here where stand or stand It is buying them off

931
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 5: from Cassava or at least a huge amount of them

932
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 5: from Casa. Cassava is also building there's several that have

933
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 5: been built in Midrant. There's one that's going to be

934
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 5: built that's currently been built in Cape Town. So it

935
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 5: seems that he kills us and the partnership between them

936
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 5: as much as the sale is going ahead as there's

937
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 5: going to still be a partnership between them on operating

938
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 5: and running these data centers.

939
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,479
Speaker 2: See Pumalela zomdie I take expert. Thanks so much, really

940
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 2: do appreciate the time on The Money Show.

941
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 5: The Money Show with Stephen seven two seven two an.

942
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: Interesting reports on money where about an experience someone had

943
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: might wonder if this might have happened to you somewhere

944
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 2: along the way. So someone owed a body corporate, so

945
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 2: they're in a sort of a state a body corporate

946
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 2: about seventeen thousand rand. Somehow lawyers for the body corporate

947
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: decided the best thing to do would be to go

948
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: to the High Court. Now you can imagine, I'm sure

949
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 2: you know this. Lawyers, the fees go up and up

950
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: and up, and in fact the judge was quite scathing

951
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 2: about this and said this should not be happening. You

952
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 2: shouldn't be coming to the High Court for relatively small

953
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 2: amounts of money. And I can't help but feel what's

954
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 2: actually going on here. It's just simple bullying. I mean,

955
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 2: it's the sort of Donald Trump approach, because what you're

956
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: doing is and what the lawyers do, and I can't

957
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,439
Speaker 2: help but think that they're willing connivorus because they make

958
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 2: money because they send you letters and things and they say,

959
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 2: if you don't do this, this is how much money

960
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 2: it's going to cost in your death. Of seventeen thousand

961
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,839
Speaker 2: suddenly becomes fifty thousand or one hundred thousand, and it's

962
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 2: all nonsense. And I wondered if this had ever happened

963
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: to you, where maybe someone decided, oh, I've got a lawyer.

964
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,280
Speaker 2: And you know when people say, oh, call my lawyer

965
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 2: you I kind of almost want to laugh, but I

966
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 2: know it can't get very serious. But I wondered if

967
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: you'd been bullied in that way. I find it quite

968
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 2: frustrating when people do that. I mean, I understand why

969
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 2: you need a lawyer to protect yours all of those things,

970
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: particularly in a dispute, but to go to the High

971
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 2: Court of the seventeen thousand round really, I mean, come on,

972
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: I wonder the judge wars cross. I just think they've

973
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 2: got to be better ways to manage something like this.

974
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: Twenty minutes after s the Money.

975
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 10: Shows small business focus.

976
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 2: We're talking about AI and technology a moment ago. Now,

977
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: of course, if you're running a small business, there are

978
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: all sorts of things you can do to grow quite

979
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,240
Speaker 2: quite quickly. There's a growing CARSI tech movement. Blaalani Balabala

980
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: is the founder of the Township Entrepreneurs Agencies with me now,

981
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 2: Bula Lani, Good evening. So we know that small businesses

982
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 2: there are couple of things. The one is they are

983
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 2: trying to do a lot with no money. The second

984
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: is that they don't always have time to keep up

985
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 2: with technology. But if they do it before anyone else,

986
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 2: they can really scale up quickly. No, no, they definitely can.

987
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 11: I think what we've observed over the past couple of

988
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 11: years is all. I think technic technology has become more accessible,

989
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 11: especially I think most importantly through their tools that they

990
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 11: also then provide for you to navigate the various platforms.

991
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 11: And I think for me, at the end of the day,

992
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 11: I think when we talk about access, we're not necessarily

993
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,320
Speaker 11: talking about the inform There's a platform of information everywhere

994
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 11: you go, So you still need to do a little

995
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 11: bit of work in digging out what would actually help

996
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 11: you in optimizing your business a little bit more. But

997
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 11: I think when you sort of then think about the

998
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 11: three key things really for me that any small business

999
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 11: needs to be thinking about really is how do you

1000
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 11: utilize AI in an efficient and effective manner in your business?

1001
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 11: The second part is really how do you automate those minuscule,

1002
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 11: repetitive task And then the third part really is how

1003
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 11: then do you utilize crowding cloud tools from a collaborative

1004
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 11: approach and also then just ensuring that you manage your

1005
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 11: task and your flow.

1006
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: Okay, so I mean you're a small business owner, you

1007
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 2: don't have a big team, You're trying to get your

1008
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 2: clients sorted, you're trying to get the product out, You're

1009
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 2: trying to do all of this really quite quickly, how

1010
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: would AI support a small business? I mean, and I

1011
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 2: presume it's not just sounds for email. No, no, definitely

1012
00:54:59,200 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 2: not right.

1013
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 11: But I think for me, the real key thing here

1014
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 11: is really to just understand a couple of things. So

1015
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 11: you don't delegate the thinking to the tool. You need

1016
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 11: to then still be the master of the You need

1017
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 11: to be the master thinker, and you utilize the tool

1018
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 11: to prim out and then to bounce off ideas. I mean,

1019
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 11: I think some of the platforms, some of the large

1020
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 11: language model platforms are there, they're out in the market

1021
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 11: and they're very popular. But what you then utilize them

1022
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 11: to do at the end of the day, At the

1023
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 11: very heart of any AI tool is prompting. It's important

1024
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 11: for you to then prompt it as detailed as possible,

1025
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 11: so it's not just it's not just sending a message

1026
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 11: out to say, you know, what is the best cart

1027
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 11: to buy? You know you'll get generic and useless answer,

1028
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 11: but you need to go into details. Give it an

1029
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 11: idea of the profile of the individual, give it a

1030
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 11: scenario space and a background so that it's able to

1031
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 11: prim out content and context that is relevant for you.

1032
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 2: Now in the context of business.

1033
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 11: What you then utilize these tools for is that you

1034
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 11: primarut youological thinking with an AI tool.

1035
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 2: Then you then extrapulate.

1036
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 11: It off and you utilize platforms like your law which

1037
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 11: are available to the markets where you build up agents,

1038
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 11: and then from that you then automate. You utilize your

1039
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 11: free tools like your Nate aids and other tools to

1040
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 11: then make sure that you're automated. So, for instance, what

1041
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 11: that does when we talk about automation is when you

1042
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 11: get an email coming in on your ge your on

1043
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 11: your email accounts, you're not in the office, you're amoundment show.

1044
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,799
Speaker 11: But what you are then able to do with the

1045
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 11: tools is that the tool is able to then give

1046
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 11: automatic responses and even engage with that customer without you

1047
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 11: being there. By the time you engage them, that prospectors

1048
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,879
Speaker 11: move to a lead into someone who's actually asking you

1049
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 11: for a quotation. Now where the team gets involved is

1050
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 11: that because we understand that majority are small business owners

1051
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 11: are always on the road and they're moving around everywhere.

1052
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 11: The tools are very expensive. You then utilize online workspaces.

1053
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,240
Speaker 11: I think one or one of the tech companies, Google

1054
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 11: has got a workspace that you can plug into and

1055
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 11: you're able to then build project management flows and pay

1056
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 11: nothing for them.

1057
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 2: You know, that's a beautiful thing.

1058
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 11: And the beautiful thing also then about them is that

1059
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 11: they update in real time. But that then does it

1060
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 11: that it becomes a game changer for managing the repository

1061
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 11: of any content for any specific program and within your business.

1062
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 2: Back then it build good all of these tools.

1063
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 11: At the end of the day, you're amazing useful tools,

1064
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 11: but we then u to lose utilize them with caution.

1065
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: Does it also maybe make your business a bit more consistent.

1066
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 2: The experience the customer gets will always be exactly the same,

1067
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 2: and that's often what you want.

1068
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 11: No, No, there's definitely what you want. I think, I

1069
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 11: mean when you sort of thin, when you sort of

1070
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 11: then think about it. At the end of the day,

1071
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 11: every aspect of your business where where a customer engages

1072
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 11: with you is a business touch point. Whether it's a

1073
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 11: telephone and callers, an email to the website that you've

1074
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 11: now created, it's a if it's a storefront where a

1075
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 11: customer comes in. And I think in most cases what

1076
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 11: we then usually do, especially then you see this when

1077
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 11: you do the other side of this conversation, when you

1078
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 11: don't talk to us about the digital digital transformation, especially

1079
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 11: in the context of marketing, and you make us a

1080
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 11: way to say that if you're then going to open

1081
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 11: up a social media platform, you don't open up a

1082
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 11: social media player page and not manage, not feed the content,

1083
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 11: because what it actually says to the customer is that

1084
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 11: you are unreliable. Although to you it might seem cumbersome

1085
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 11: for you to then be paddling content. So don't start

1086
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 11: it if you know that you won't manage it at

1087
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 11: the end of the day. And part of management is

1088
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 11: not you going back in when you've got negative reviews.

1089
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 11: That's not the best way to manage customer disputes. You

1090
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,439
Speaker 11: need to then solve it in real time in front

1091
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 11: of people so that you didn't demonstrate that you are away.

1092
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 11: You've got the right sort of customer measurement tools in place.

1093
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 11: But this conversation really is not about that. But it's

1094
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 11: really about saying, if you're going to utilize and open

1095
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 11: up the door to any technological tool, you then need

1096
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 11: to then manage it.

1097
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 2: If you can't manage it, don't open up the door

1098
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: at all. You've been building the CARCI tech platform, You've

1099
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 2: been having sessions with people. What sort of problems are

1100
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 2: you finding are being solved?

1101
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,959
Speaker 11: No, man, I mean, I mean there's quite a number

1102
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 11: of platforms. I think for me, there's two. There's two

1103
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 11: key parts, right, and this is the reason why we've

1104
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 11: been aggregating a lot in and around the work we

1105
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 11: do as TEA, especially with the tech, the Gassi tech. Right,

1106
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 11: just to say we've identified that there's a small community

1107
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 11: of developers. These are SaaS corders, SaaS developers, these are coders.

1108
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 11: These are individuals that are building AI agents that are

1109
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 11: in the township. But the biggest challenge for them is

1110
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 11: that they've got the skill, but they don't necessarily have

1111
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 11: the entrepreneurial prowers or the operational skills to understand how

1112
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 11: do you then commercialize this? And then the other big

1113
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 11: thing that is lacking us how do they link up

1114
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 11: with the customers? And then on the other side, you've

1115
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 11: got the second tier individual. Who's the second tier customer

1116
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 11: really who is the individual's got to take enabled business

1117
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 11: so they're a plumber and they utilize a platform to

1118
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 11: access customers. And then the third part is the three

1119
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 11: spot that feeds into all these individuals is someone who's

1120
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 11: been in business doesn't have any technological tools, which is

1121
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 11: where now you aggregate an ecosystem of individual that then

1122
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 11: grows itself from peer to peer support.

1123
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 2: Okay, so your small business owner, you're sitting there towards

1124
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 2: the end of the week, what would be the best

1125
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 2: sort of step to take to start when you wake

1126
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 2: up tomorrow? What do you do?

1127
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 11: The first thing I'd like for you to do, Number

1128
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 11: one is identify a technological identify not a technological identify

1129
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 11: a big paid, a big pain in your business. And

1130
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:06,919
Speaker 11: I think first and foremost, I think when you spoke

1131
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 11: about this last year around, really just optimizing your time

1132
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,439
Speaker 11: and workflows is number one. You need to know whether

1133
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 11: the blockers are on your business. Once you've identified the blocker,

1134
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 11: going do the research on some of the tools that

1135
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 11: you require. Once you've done that, watch the tutorials and

1136
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 11: actually then apply them practically. Majority of these tools, I

1137
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 11: mean their freemium, but majority of them have got a

1138
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 11: thirty day or fourteen day trial periods.

1139
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 2: Utilize it each and every day, and start with one.

1140
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 11: Tool, go deep within it, and then the moment it

1141
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 11: works cascaded throughout your business, throughout your entire business.

1142
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got twenty seconds left. But this is just

1143
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 2: only going to go and get more and more important

1144
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 2: right now.

1145
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 11: Definitely, I think for me every business needs a technological

1146
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 11: leg technological enabler because it gives your competitive advantage.

1147
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, indeed, so good to see you,

1148
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 2: Bilalani Ballabala and of course the head the founder of

1149
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 2: the Township Entrepreneurs Agency, the Money Show Investment School. Twenty

1150
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 2: four minutes now to eight the time. So on a

1151
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 2: day where we saw such velatility, the JAC down so significantly,

1152
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 2: I suppose a very interesting question on Investments School tonight.

1153
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 2: Why do the same investments behave completely differently depending on

1154
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 2: the market environment of governor's portfolio manager at rand Swiss

1155
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 2: and doctor William Wright is the chief that the lead

1156
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 2: data scientist a differential capital. Good evening to you both, William,

1157
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 2: if I can just start with you, what are we

1158
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 2: actually talking about. We're trying to obviously make sure that

1159
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 2: our investments rise in value. We understand that there are

1160
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 2: different market dynamics at different times. This market is completely

1161
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 2: different to what happened three weeks ago. When we say

1162
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 2: why do the same investments behave differently? What are we asking?

1163
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 12: Thanks very much for having me, Stephen, So, I mean

1164
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 12: you hit the nail on the head there. Not all

1165
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 12: markets are created equally, you know, they're defined by just

1166
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 12: a spectrum of different features that all interact with one

1167
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 12: another in very complicated ways, things like interest rate, you know,

1168
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 12: economic growth factors, investor sentiment, all that sort of stuff.

1169
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 12: And just because you have one strategy that you know,

1170
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 12: say you enter the market with a specific you know,

1171
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 12: a way of approaching stocks in twenty twenty three and

1172
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 12: you knock.

1173
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 2: The lights out.

1174
01:02:13,880 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 12: Then you know, all of a sudden a year goes

1175
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 12: by and things start tanking. You know, that's that's not

1176
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 12: just bad luck, that's something structural, right, It's a feature

1177
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 12: of how markets work. And when you understand that there

1178
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 12: are these different regimes, and when you learn that, you

1179
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 12: can you know, apply systematic trading methodologies and techniques. You

1180
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 12: can get a competitive edge when you want to try

1181
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 12: and maximize your returns in these types of environments.

1182
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 2: Okay, so we're talking rarely about how you need to

1183
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 2: revise strategies. We're talking about how quickly you need to

1184
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 2: move sort of in moments like this exactly exactly, the governor,

1185
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 2: I suppose you also need to realize that something that

1186
01:02:57,840 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 2: worked for you once might not work for you again.

1187
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 2: Something that might do very well in US markets right

1188
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 2: now isn't going to do so well on the Jersey.

1189
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 13: Yes, most certainly. I mean, look, there's a part of

1190
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 13: it that's you know, psychological. But the longer term, of course,

1191
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 13: we do see value coming through. As Molan Buffett I

1192
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 13: think one said, in the short term, markets are voting machine.

1193
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 2: The long term they are a weighing machine.

1194
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 13: And so if you do find value, you know, find

1195
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 13: a company that might be out of favor or you

1196
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 13: know whatever that is actually you know, producing profits and

1197
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 13: is going to basically, you know, be profitable about what

1198
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 13: the market expects it to be. It's still goodbye, even

1199
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 13: if from the sentiment maybe against it. But there are

1200
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 13: periods of time where we do have actual changes in

1201
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 13: you know, the fundamentals, you know, news events. The wall

1202
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 13: isn't almost stable. If you look at the current environment

1203
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 13: out there right now. You know, in the last couple

1204
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 13: of years, it's all been about AI, especially in the US,

1205
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 13: until we had Donald Trump coming into power, and then

1206
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 13: the market basically took a very negative turn off for

1207
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 13: the US relative to resort world use was still positive,

1208
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 13: but there was a big turn towards you know, other

1209
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 13: parts of the world, especially places like Europid so on,

1210
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 13: and you know, being driven by you know, changes in

1211
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 13: terms of what people expected to happen with defense dockings

1212
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 13: be in defense stocks are looking very strong. So there

1213
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 13: are fundamental changes that do occur. But often we do

1214
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 13: find that, you know, the market tends to go on

1215
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 13: trends that are they see momentum, they say, you know

1216
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 13: whatever to resistance lines and support lines are often these

1217
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 13: psychological terms deal with more what people feel about the

1218
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 13: market as opposed to the underlying valuations that I involved.

1219
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 2: It isn't what people feel is where we end up

1220
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 2: in investments school William. So are these things called quant

1221
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 2: funds which and I mean you will do this much

1222
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 2: better than I. But basically, when the trading is almost automatic,

1223
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 2: there there's a procedure baked in, there's a strategy baked in,

1224
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 2: and the machines do it all in one day. We're

1225
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 2: organiziz as a result. But what are the main strategies

1226
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 2: that quant funds use? Because they are doing and they

1227
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 2: execute very quickly as well, and so that means that

1228
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 2: strategy a planned a month ago looks great, beautiful boss

1229
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 2: signed off or automatic and then so how do they

1230
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 2: do that? Yeah, absolutely, Stephen.

1231
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 12: So I mean, I'm there's just more different types of

1232
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 12: strategies that are all proprietary.

1233
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 2: You know that then there are stars in the sky.

1234
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 12: But and there's a good reason for that, you know,

1235
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 12: because people won't want to give up their competitive advantage

1236
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 12: of everybody knows about them. But you know, there are

1237
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 12: some common themes and common common types of strategies you

1238
01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 12: know that are based around you know, these fundamental ideas

1239
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 12: in investing, and like there's four that I'd like to

1240
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 12: really discuss right now. First is momentum based strategies. Value

1241
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 12: based strategies have mentioned, you know, brought up Warren Buffett,

1242
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 12: so obviously value coming in their defensive, low volatility type

1243
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 12: strategies and quality and you know, a momentum based strategy

1244
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,919
Speaker 12: is effectively, you know, what's been going up, you buy,

1245
01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 12: what's been going down, you sell, And it works well

1246
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 12: in trending markets, you know, where the investor behavior amplifies

1247
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 12: price movements, but it struggles when there's rapid reversals in.

1248
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 2: Those types of trends.

1249
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 12: Value, you know, you buy cheap and popular companies and

1250
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 12: wait for them to you know, eventually recover.

1251
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 2: And these work nicely in.

1252
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 12: Stable markets, but they can underperform in years where you know,

1253
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 12: the market growth is driven by or market activities driven

1254
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 12: by growth rather than current earnings. Then you know, defensive

1255
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 12: strategies will focus on stable, predictable businesses, you know, things

1256
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 12: like consumer stables, utilities, healthcare, and those can work in

1257
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 12: volatile and recessionary environments, but in you know, ball markets,

1258
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 12: when investors are chasing growth, then they suffering. And lastly,

1259
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 12: you know, quality type markets would be companies with strong

1260
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 12: balance sheets, reliable earnings, things like that, and the tends

1261
01:06:58,920 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 12: these sorts of strategies tend be consistent, but they're never

1262
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 12: the best performer in any particular regime. And you know,

1263
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 12: like I said, this is just these are just four examples.

1264
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 12: But and when quant funds go about developing their own

1265
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 12: internal strategies, they they won't be picking from just the

1266
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 12: you know, stock textbook examples. They'll use you know, signals

1267
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 12: like this, but they'll also be using you know, more

1268
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 12: price and volume oriented signals. They'll be using signals coming

1269
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 12: from alternative data sets that are you know, expensive and

1270
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 12: difficult to process. And the idea there is that you

1271
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 12: can aggregate thousands of these signals together instead of just

1272
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 12: relying on one specific signal, with the idea that being

1273
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 12: more accurate and you know, delivering better returns in the

1274
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 12: one in the long run, when you have all of

1275
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 12: these different, uncorrelated signals, you know, driving an investment decision.

1276
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 2: I'm sort of reminded of you know, the board game Monopoly,

1277
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 2: and when you land on one of the utilities you

1278
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 2: can buy. It doesn't cost you very much. At least

1279
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 2: you have it and you get some rent. That's kind

1280
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 2: of exactly what it does, so, Viv, I mean, if

1281
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 2: you just look at momentum for a moment when you

1282
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 2: buy winners and sell losers, and we see this on

1283
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 2: a daily basis, company comes out with a slight surprising results,

1284
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 2: right the stock price thanks, and the next day everyone

1285
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:25,719
Speaker 2: buys the dip. I mean, is that such a good strategy?

1286
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 13: Look, I mean they are behavioral inconsistencies. There's cognitive biases

1287
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:36,560
Speaker 13: at the term. I think it's Donal Caleman and Amsterwuds.

1288
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 13: He basically discovered that human brains aren't exactly logical machines,

1289
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 13: and therefore there are you know, exploitable mistakes that we

1290
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:47,600
Speaker 13: tend to make, and that's for the that's basically the

1291
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 13: reasons casinos exist logically knowledge you never walk into a

1292
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 13: casino knowing that you're basically, on average always lose money.

1293
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 13: But yet they are sort of the biggest companies in the

1294
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 13: world are casino companies. So yeah, I think that there

1295
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 13: are logical fallacies that are in the human mind, but

1296
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 13: there's also certain trends that are out there that are

1297
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 13: you know, basically exploitable, but they are also based on reason.

1298
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 13: For instance, I mean, it's quite likely that on the

1299
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 13: Fridays in this kind of period of time we see

1300
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 13: markets underperforming because people don't want to be holding too

1301
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 13: many things or being long over a weekend in which

1302
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 13: you know, Rudo's wife might happen, And so you could

1303
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 13: basically expect, you know, the market to be more often

1304
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 13: than not negative on a Friday, and if that's the case,

1305
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 13: it's probably to be more often than not positive for

1306
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 13: the Monday, as people basically get back in ahead of

1307
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 13: a new training week. Is that basically an exploitable thing

1308
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 13: isn't certain exploitible, but it's also based on a real reasons.

1309
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 13: There's also you know, issues out there, for instance, in

1310
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 13: terms of people having different motivations. So for instance, there's

1311
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 13: window dressing that occurs when front managers want to basically

1312
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 13: go out and you knows, or or show their holdings

1313
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 13: in the best possible light and identifying you know, near

1314
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 13: like repeedags in which they are going to be marked,

1315
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 13: you know, in terms of the performance. Suddenly the market

1316
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:05,640
Speaker 13: looks a lot stronger than it should on average. And

1317
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,839
Speaker 13: that's window dressing. And you can exploit that if you're

1318
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,640
Speaker 13: if you're basically a person that's willing to go around that.

1319
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 13: So there are these little things out there in the marketplace.

1320
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 13: That being said, I do think that in the longer

1321
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 13: term strategy that's going to be more likely not to win.

1322
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 13: Inspite a company that you think can do well when

1323
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 13: the culture in the business is good at a reasonable

1324
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 13: price and you know, hold it until the market.

1325
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 2: Realizes its value is there. That has been a dameter thing.

1326
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 13: Trying to trade a momentum you know there it can work,

1327
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,600
Speaker 13: but metum does shift very fast. And even trying to

1328
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 13: work on like the different kind of like you know factors.

1329
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 13: I mean, one is what call like long term capital management,

1330
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 13: you know, for those that are old enough, in which case,

1331
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 13: you know, we have a bunch of nobal price winning

1332
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 13: you know economists trying to you know, figure out all

1333
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 13: the variables back in the day and they got you know,

1334
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 13: caught out back a couple of you know, unexpected blackswuan

1335
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 13: events and basically had to be bailed out by the government.

1336
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think I'm that old, but I've heard

1337
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 2: of it. William. The the issue of so we discussed

1338
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 2: how quantitative you know, quint funds work. What is quantitative investing.

1339
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 2: Quantitive easing is something central banks do in bad times,

1340
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 2: but quantitative investing.

1341
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 12: So, I mean, so quantitative investing is so it's an

1342
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 12: approach to managing money that uses mathematics, statistics, modeling data

1343
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 12: to drive your investment decisions. So you're not just relying

1344
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 12: on human experience and human intuition alone. So instead of

1345
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 12: you know, having your fundamental analysts coming over you know,

1346
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:41,240
Speaker 12: company reports deciding what to buy, you'll have a team

1347
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 12: of guys building mathematical models that are tested on historical data,

1348
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 12: refined and then executed upon systematically. Right, And I think

1349
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 12: there's two important components there. It's not just about building

1350
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 12: the models and you know, selecting the winning strategies and

1351
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 12: combining everything together.

1352
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 2: It's about being able to execute.

1353
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 12: When the time is right, because I mean it's it's

1354
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 12: come up now a couple of times. Humans are prone

1355
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 12: to you know, quite volatile emotional states, right you fear

1356
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 12: over confidence, you know, bias, and a well designed quant

1357
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 12: model will do the same thing every time, no matter

1358
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 12: what you're feeling. If it's the right time, you know,

1359
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 12: based off of what the data is telling you, even

1360
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 12: though you don't feel like it's the right time, the

1361
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 12: model will execute and you're able to trade. And I

1362
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 12: mean this is also you know, not a not a

1363
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 12: new way of doing things, quite a seat of investing

1364
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 12: has been around since the seventies, and you know, it's

1365
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 12: also had remarkable success. I think it's the one golden

1366
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,719
Speaker 12: standard that everyone holds up to when talking about quant

1367
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 12: funds is Renaissance Technologies and Simon's. You know, it's a

1368
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 12: discretionary track record over three decades that's unmatched at this point.

1369
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 2: I mean, speaking for humanity, I think the only one

1370
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 2: who does in investment school sometimes but it's a joke.

1371
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 2: The the isn't there. You're missing a flash of insight

1372
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:04,759
Speaker 2: if you go that route, and that's sometimes flesh of insight.

1373
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe it's over romanticized, and maybe all I've

1374
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: done is watch movies, but the flash of insight can

1375
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:11,839
Speaker 2: sometimes actually be quite valuable.

1376
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 13: Yes, But also people sometimes confuses flash of insight for

1377
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 13: just plain luck. I mean, if you had to go

1378
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 13: look at like a movie like a Big Shot, and

1379
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 13: look at the performance of those you know, those geniuses

1380
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 13: that caught the big shot, you know, after that, you'd

1381
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:26,719
Speaker 13: find they made quite a bit, quite a few errors,

1382
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,520
Speaker 13: you know what I mean. Michael Barry has had some missteps.

1383
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:31,679
Speaker 13: You know, of course, you'd see quite a few people

1384
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 13: there that have not really performed as much as you

1385
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 13: would think of if they are these geniuses that can

1386
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 13: basically find these insights. So it is a case where,

1387
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 13: you know, sometimes it is a case where people do

1388
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 13: confuse luck with ability, and you know, often you know,

1389
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 13: I often say, like you know, people often rely much

1390
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 13: more on the experience than on historical you know, knowledge.

1391
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 13: And if you look at someone for instance, that' say

1392
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 13: forty five years old right now, interesting in the market,

1393
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:00,639
Speaker 13: they've been investing basically the last six almost twenty years

1394
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 13: or of their career, has been posted two thousand and eight,

1395
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 13: and they've experienced on interest rate policy. They have a

1396
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 13: certain thing here which is basically always buy the dip

1397
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:12,320
Speaker 13: and you should be turned off quite fine. And you

1398
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:14,599
Speaker 13: know you when you're twenty five and now you're almost

1399
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 13: forty five, and you've got a senior person and this

1400
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 13: kind of insight, this belief, this gut feeling, has been

1401
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,719
Speaker 13: manipulated by the fact that the US a certain period

1402
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 13: of time that behaved in a certain way. And I

1403
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 13: think that's what these models can sometimes overcome.

1404
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 2: So interesting. Governor is with Rand Swiss. Doctor William Wright

1405
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:37,759
Speaker 2: is the lead data scientists at Differential Capital Investment School.

1406
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:39,680
Speaker 2: Good the year from you tonight on a double one

1407
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 2: double A three year seven and two two one, four, four, six, five, six, seven,

1408
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,439
Speaker 2: eleven minutes noway the.

1409
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 10: Money show Stupid croretest is brought to you by APPSOL

1410
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 10: Corporate and Investment backing proud sponsors of GTR Africa twenty

1411
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 10: twenty six enabling trade flows for growth.

1412
01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:02,719
Speaker 2: APPS is a register their FSP company Show Investment School

1413
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 2: nine minutes now to eight the time we're talking, of

1414
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 2: course about why do the same investment systems behave completely

1415
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 2: differently depending on the market environment. Doctor William Wright is

1416
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 2: the lead data scientists Differential Capital of Governor's Portfolio Manager

1417
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 2: at rand Swiss. William if I had to go into

1418
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:25,839
Speaker 2: the investment book section at the airport, I would probably

1419
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:29,640
Speaker 2: find all sorts of books that will promise the winning strategy.

1420
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 2: If I go on to Amazon, it'll be even worse.

1421
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 2: Is there one strategy that always works? The short answer

1422
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 2: is now.

1423
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 12: And the thing is is that it's so dependent on

1424
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 12: this interplay between you know, the current market regime that exists,

1425
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 12: you know, your ability to determine what that regime is,

1426
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 12: whether it's changing, and what types of strategies are able

1427
01:15:56,439 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 12: to perform in that environment. And even there, it's not

1428
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 12: necessarily about one type of strategy. It's about the suite

1429
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 12: of strategies that you can implement. You know, Like I mentioned,

1430
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,639
Speaker 12: you know, momentum performs well in a certain environment, there

1431
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,040
Speaker 12: might be other types of strategies that can cover the

1432
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 12: pitfalls that momentum can't. So it's there's multiple angles there

1433
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 12: when it comes to determining, you know, how best to

1434
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 12: approach the specific regime the trend.

1435
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 2: So I mean, if we look at the different systems

1436
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 2: that there are what's happening in markets now right now?

1437
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:36,599
Speaker 2: I mean, what's the strategy that you would be using.

1438
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 2: And if you looked at the JS Todd it would

1439
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 2: seem very few of them would really be working well.

1440
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 13: I mean, if you're looking at like things that radio

1441
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 13: with the market v systematic way, I mean there's probably

1442
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:49,679
Speaker 13: interest rates and taxes if you look at different systems.

1443
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 13: I mean, if you're going through a period of which

1444
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 13: you could have lower interest rates, that gives you the

1445
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 13: future discounted value of your cash flows, it's going to

1446
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 13: be greater, and then you might say, okay, yeah, I

1447
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 13: want to be willing to take on you know that

1448
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 13: a higher.

1449
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 2: Growth risk because that growth in the future is going

1450
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 2: to be worth more.

1451
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:06,720
Speaker 13: On relative terms to what nowadays as opposed to when

1452
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 13: interestates were lower, or the risk of that growth would

1453
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 13: be like higher. I think in a correct environment, I

1454
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 13: would say that you know, you know, all likelihood, we

1455
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:15,840
Speaker 13: are probably going to have some inflation, We probably have

1456
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 13: higher uncertainty. You probably have a period of time in

1457
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 13: which you know, interestates might have to rise because inflation.

1458
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 2: Is coming back.

1459
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 13: Who knows what the outcome there looks like, And therefore

1460
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 13: you might want to be no movie moving away from.

1461
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 2: Growth towards, for instance, more value. That might be an

1462
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 2: argument to be made.

1463
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:34,920
Speaker 13: At the same time, you know, we are currently on

1464
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 13: the great technological revolutions of all time, and one might

1465
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:39,920
Speaker 13: recall it, for instance, two thousand and one with the

1466
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:43,760
Speaker 13: you know, nine eleven, et cetera. Yet you know, we

1467
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 13: were just about to start off the Internet revolution then

1468
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:48,960
Speaker 13: buying Apple and buying Amazon and buying you know, towards

1469
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 13: all those internet covers back in the day. Is some

1470
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:53,080
Speaker 13: of them did fail, but you know, we might still

1471
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 13: be a good you know thing because those things were

1472
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:57,760
Speaker 13: still going to make money in the future. So, yeah,

1473
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:00,639
Speaker 13: there's no one strategy. It always works. You could argue

1474
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 13: that now might be the time for but more value.

1475
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 13: But if we are experiencing points a paradigm shifting technology change,

1476
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 13: you know, you might just want to buy the dip

1477
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 13: on these things, even if they are possibly, you know,

1478
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 13: in normal times over valued.

1479
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:18,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, William, So, I mean we talk about quand funds

1480
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 2: and sort of you know, the way they worked. Can

1481
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:24,280
Speaker 2: they predict when things are about to change? So one

1482
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 2: of the things we saw before the oil price did

1483
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:28,679
Speaker 2: with the oil price did, was that we suddenly started

1484
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 2: to have lower inflation. Now you maybe being able to

1485
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 2: predict that, but maybe not.

1486
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 12: I feel like I'm going to have lots of nose

1487
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:41,479
Speaker 12: for you, Tonight's Stephen. The answer is reliably know. There's

1488
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 12: lots of models that we have that are able to,

1489
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 12: you know, attempt this, you know, and it's by looking

1490
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,840
Speaker 12: at things like earnings revisions, volatility patterns, cross asset correlations,

1491
01:18:51,200 --> 01:18:53,800
Speaker 12: yield curve shapes. But what most of these models are

1492
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:57,879
Speaker 12: able to do well is detect that regime changes happened

1493
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 12: after it's happened or after it's art it right, not

1494
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 12: necessarily before. And this is where that execution element comes in.

1495
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:08,599
Speaker 12: You know, if you're able to respond to that change

1496
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 12: faster and more systematically than you know your competitors can,

1497
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 12: that's that's where they age light m Okay.

1498
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 2: So so you've got to sort of know that something

1499
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:21,639
Speaker 2: is coming there. So there must be strategies that still

1500
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,559
Speaker 2: work even in even in an environment as complex as

1501
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,840
Speaker 2: this one. Yes, look, I mean the.

1502
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:29,559
Speaker 13: Problem is that you know there are people out there,

1503
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 13: like the doctor who are going to have more information,

1504
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:35,280
Speaker 13: They're going to have more time to figure these things out.

1505
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 13: So for detail investors you know, trying to implement a

1506
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:41,120
Speaker 13: market being strategy is usually not going to be a

1507
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 13: winning successful formula.

1508
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 2: Yes, it may be possibly to be the market.

1509
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 13: It may be possible to you know, to do you know,

1510
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:48,720
Speaker 13: our performance, But I mean you probably have to have

1511
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 13: a as I mentioned, you know, unique data. You might

1512
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 13: you know, have a have a bit more competing power

1513
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 13: both your computers and mentally as well then than than

1514
01:19:58,479 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 13: than old person.

1515
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 2: Time to et cetera.

1516
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:03,160
Speaker 13: So for the retail investor out there, I would suggest that,

1517
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 13: you know, trying to beat the market on a consistent

1518
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 13: basis is probably a full.

1519
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:12,679
Speaker 2: Errand so why not just go with an index fund? Okay?

1520
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 2: So William, I mean you're an ordinary investor. You're sort

1521
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 2: of depping your toes in here and there, you're looking

1522
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 2: at the indices. What does all of this sort of

1523
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:23,720
Speaker 2: mean in terms of making sure you get the strategy right?

1524
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 2: I think so.

1525
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 12: The practical implication here is actually really simple, but it's

1526
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:33,640
Speaker 12: very often ignored. And that's your portfolio is already positioned

1527
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 12: for a given market regime, whether you know it or not.

1528
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:38,559
Speaker 12: And people have a tendency to think of, you know,

1529
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 12: diversification just in terms of specific you know stocks or

1530
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 12: specific assets. But you know, a lesson that you can

1531
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 12: take away from quantitative investing is that you also need

1532
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:54,320
Speaker 12: to diversify across strategies. Right, So owning a mix of

1533
01:20:54,560 --> 01:21:00,559
Speaker 12: you know, different different investing philosophies, if you will, can

1534
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 12: help to you know, it means something and you know

1535
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:09,559
Speaker 12: you can you can potentially drive better returns with that

1536
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:13,280
Speaker 12: level of diversification angle as well. And I mean you

1537
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 12: don't need to be running a quant fund to be

1538
01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:19,439
Speaker 12: able to apply this thinking, or you know, have access

1539
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,760
Speaker 12: to the sort of things you know, you mentioned index funds.

1540
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:26,479
Speaker 12: There'll be ETFs that can you know, allow people to

1541
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 12: you know, buy into these kinds of strategies are very

1542
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 12: you know, affordable at a very low cost. And I

1543
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:36,439
Speaker 12: think the two important things to ask is just you know,

1544
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:40,680
Speaker 12: what environment is my portfolio built for versus what.

1545
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 2: Environment we're actually in.

1546
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:45,639
Speaker 12: And you know, if you have a portfolio that only

1547
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 12: has last decades winners in it, that means you're thinking

1548
01:21:48,439 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 12: that that's going to be the same for the next decade,

1549
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 12: which is probably.

1550
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 2: Not the casev We've got literally thirty seconds left. I

1551
01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 2: suppose in a way this is not about predicting the

1552
01:21:59,160 --> 01:22:02,040
Speaker 2: next shift. It's about having a strategy that means you

1553
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 2: don't have to detect the next ture.

1554
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 13: Yes, well certainly, I mean like as was mentioned, diversification

1555
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:11,519
Speaker 13: is often a bit of protection against basically an unusual

1556
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:14,280
Speaker 13: market at any point in time. I do think that

1557
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 13: also you want was considered the you know, your own

1558
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 13: life circumstances, well pascially for the retail investor, and what

1559
01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:22,599
Speaker 13: was you can possibly take and in such a time

1560
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 13: that we irom right now just to be a bit

1561
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:26,560
Speaker 13: more to like the current times, you've really got to

1562
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:28,479
Speaker 13: be you know, blutches what what the market might do,

1563
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:30,840
Speaker 13: but because of the impacts of the old price, what

1564
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 13: the economy might do, and how that might affect your

1565
01:22:32,479 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 13: own financial situation both government.

1566
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,960
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for folio manager at Randswst. Doctor William

1567
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 2: Wright is the lead data scientists a differential capital.

1568
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 10: The money Show stephid croretest is brought to you by

1569
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:48,760
Speaker 10: APPS of Corporate and Investment backing proud sponsors of gt

1570
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:52,240
Speaker 10: R Africa twenty twenty six Enabling trade.

1571
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 2: Flows for growth. APS is the richtersp Well, we might

1572
01:22:56,200 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 2: have heard earlier when we started the show and mentioned

1573
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 2: that several European countries Japan had said they might help

1574
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 2: take appropriate measures to secure the Strait of Humors. That's

1575
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 2: having absolutely no impact on US markets. The Dow Jones

1576
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:11,760
Speaker 2: down point eight eight percent, the Nastic down point nine one,

1577
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:14,280
Speaker 2: the S and P five hundred down point seventy nine

1578
01:23:14,439 --> 01:23:17,320
Speaker 2: at the moment. Back tomorrow, good evening. It's a