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Speaker 1: Seven oh two Weekend Breakfast and Parenting with Nicki Bush.

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Speaker 2: It's eleven minutes after eight o'clock. Time for us to

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Speaker 2: talk parenting for this week, and we're talking about a

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Speaker 2: topic that is always relevant, which is about building resilience

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Speaker 2: in kids, building grit in kids. Kids who are able

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Speaker 2: to handle the good and the bad, Kids who are dynamic,

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Speaker 2: kids who are able to you know, deal with challenges

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Speaker 2: which happen in all our lives. And this week in particular,

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Speaker 2: we're also looking at the power of self discipline and

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Speaker 2: delayed gratification that sometimes denying you something, denying yourself something

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Speaker 2: now could lead to a greater benefit. And we joined

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Speaker 2: as always by a resident human potential and parenting expert.

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Speaker 2: Nicki Bush joins us via zoon. Nikki A very good

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Speaker 2: morning to you. Good morning girls, Good morning. So we're

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Speaker 2: speaking about resilience, which is a topic that is all

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Speaker 2: relevant I think for all of us. You hope that

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Speaker 2: you know, adults are resilient, children are resilient, especially in

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Speaker 2: you know, the current world, relivant that is ever changing.

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Speaker 2: It feels like resilience is one of those things everyone

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Speaker 2: simply must have.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely this really is the core of being a parent

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Speaker 3: and raising children because resilience and being able to wait,

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Speaker 3: delayed gratification and having a self discipline to keep chipping

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Speaker 3: away at something is a skill that is going to

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Speaker 3: serve our children for the rest of their lives, because,

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Speaker 3: as the saying goes, all good things come to those

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Speaker 3: who wait.

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Speaker 1: So why am I talking.

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Speaker 3: About this topic this morning, Well, you know we're in

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Speaker 3: the spring. Those marlberry leaves are going to be sprouting soon,

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Speaker 3: and it's going to be silkworm season. And silkworms, of course,

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Speaker 3: are a wonderful way to teach children how to wait,

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Speaker 3: because they are going to have to watch those worms

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Speaker 3: spin those cocoons and eventually come out as a muff.

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Speaker 3: And so children really do need very practical, tangible, concrete

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Speaker 3: examples of waiting and delayed gratification. And of course, silkworms

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Speaker 3: require you to feed them for weeks before they start spinning,

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Speaker 3: because they've got to get all fat and to the

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Speaker 3: right stage before they start spinning. So it gives children

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Speaker 3: a really good idea of what self discipline looks like

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Speaker 3: because you've got to keep feeding those little worms, and

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Speaker 3: then the waiting once they're in that cocoon and you

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Speaker 3: can't actually see what's happening inside, but you've got to

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Speaker 3: trust that everything is on track. Now, there's a lovely

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Speaker 3: link to this, another real world live link to this,

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Speaker 3: which is money and money growing over time through compound interest.

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Speaker 3: So when we put money into investments, we can't see

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Speaker 3: what's happening to that money, and we have to keep

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Speaker 3: as adults, we have to keep putting money in every

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Speaker 3: single month, even if it's a small amount, and leave

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Speaker 3: it alone over time so that it can grow through

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Speaker 3: the magic of compound interest.

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Speaker 1: We can't see what's happening, but.

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Speaker 3: We know from the research, from the proof that even

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Speaker 3: people who don't earn big salaries, who put away a

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Speaker 3: small amount regularly over time, every single month for fifty years,

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Speaker 3: actually land up retiring wealthy. So these are just some

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Speaker 3: examples of, you know, how we can help children to

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Speaker 3: have the self discipline to make things happen in their lives,

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Speaker 3: as well as this trait of being able to wait.

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Speaker 1: So many adults.

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Speaker 3: In life never get to retire decently, and a lot

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Speaker 3: of this starts with not having the understanding of things

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Speaker 3: like compound interest and that you don't have to put

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Speaker 3: away a lot every now and again, it's actually a

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Speaker 3: little regularly over time that gets you to where you

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Speaker 3: need to be. And then let's look in our own

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Speaker 3: children's lives. You know, how does that pan out?

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Speaker 1: With money?

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Speaker 3: You give them pocket money, they need to put some

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Speaker 3: away to give to other people, some a way to

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Speaker 3: save for.

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Speaker 1: Something that they want.

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Speaker 3: They might want something that's more expensive than they can

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Speaker 3: afford in the toy shop, and it's a good thing

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Speaker 3: for them to put money away for six months or

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Speaker 3: twelve months if it's something big, and to add their

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Speaker 3: birthday money to that as well, and to wait for

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Speaker 3: it today.

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Speaker 1: With credit cards. Of course, this is a very difficult

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Speaker 1: lesson to teach our children, and.

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Speaker 2: So it also seems as though one of this particular

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Speaker 2: skill is a skill that we'll use in every part

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Speaker 2: of their lives. So you'll need to wait in traffic,

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Speaker 2: you'll have to wait in a queue. You'll have to

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Speaker 2: wait for a promotion or for an opportunity. If you're

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Speaker 2: a sportsperson, there is this wait between you know, when

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Speaker 2: you start and when you reach I guess your peak form.

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Speaker 2: You'll have to wait to get your degree. It can

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Speaker 2: be three years, four years, seven years, sometimes even longer.

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Speaker 2: If you're doing a specialization, for instance. So this idea

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Speaker 2: of being able to wait and be patient feels like

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Speaker 2: the kind of thing you will use in absolutely every

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Speaker 2: part of your life.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely so. So that's why self discipline and the ability

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Speaker 3: to wait are so connected to each other.

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Speaker 1: Because you just.

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Speaker 3: Mentioned, say, you know, studying for a degree, the degree doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Get earned in the ether.

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Speaker 3: It's about putting in the discipline over the three or

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Speaker 3: four or seven or ten years, depending on how specialized

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Speaker 3: you want to be, that you keep chipping away at it.

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Speaker 3: You keep putting in the effort, you keep doing the research,

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Speaker 3: you keep doing the studying, you keep going to lectures.

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Speaker 3: For some people, they're going to have to work while

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Speaker 3: they're studying, So that in itself is self discipline.

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Speaker 1: Out of the three years that I studied.

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Speaker 3: I worked full time for two of those three years

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Speaker 3: and only for one year did I study full time,

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Speaker 3: And that was a discipline. So that it really is

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Speaker 3: something that goes through all of our lives. There's not

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Speaker 3: one person on this planet who is immune from these

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Speaker 3: two factors that can make you successful, help you to

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Speaker 3: get where you.

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Speaker 1: Want to get. If you think about relationships.

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Speaker 3: Kids, because of instant gratification because of devices don't actually

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Speaker 3: know how to build good relationships over time, and so

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Speaker 3: they're the flip flop generation. They're in and out of

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Speaker 3: relationships very quickly because they don't know how to how

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Speaker 3: to build relationships that good relationships take time. So let's

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Speaker 3: look at some of the research because I think this

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Speaker 3: is really interesting. And I've mentioned the marsh mellow experiment

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Speaker 3: often and I think this is important to maybe unpack

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Speaker 3: a little more than we usually do. So the marshmallow

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Speaker 3: experiment was actually done by a researcher called Walter Mitchel,

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Speaker 3: and this was done in the nineteen sixties at Stanford

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Speaker 3: Universe where he took four year old children, gave them

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Speaker 3: all a marshmallow and left the room and they were

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Speaker 3: given the choice. So remember self discipline is a choice.

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Speaker 3: Waiting is a choice. They were given the choice of

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Speaker 3: eating that marshmallow immediately or waiting twenty minutes. Now for

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Speaker 3: a four year old to wait twenty minutes is a

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Speaker 3: long time. When they were promised that they would be

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Speaker 3: given another marshmallow as a reward for waiting. So there

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Speaker 3: are videos of this experiment and you can see these

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Speaker 3: little children squirming and kicking and hiding their eyes so

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Speaker 3: that they couldn't see that marshmallow, desperately trying to exercise

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Speaker 3: self control, which was a very big ask for four

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Speaker 3: year olds, so that they could get the two marshmallows

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Speaker 3: at the end. Some children simply couldn't wait and ate

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Speaker 3: their marshmallow right away, and others waited and received the

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Speaker 3: additional marshmallow. But the real significance of the study came

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Speaker 3: fourteen years later. So the researchers found that the grabbers,

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Speaker 3: the kids whose who grabbed that marshmallow and ate it quickly,

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Speaker 3: they actually suffered low self esteem and were viewed by

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Speaker 3: others as stubborn, prone to envy, and easily frustrated. Now

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Speaker 3: that word frustration is very, very interesting because you can

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Speaker 3: actually see this in children while they're learning how to

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Speaker 3: wait for things. Some children throw tantrums. Some children really

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Speaker 3: can't cope with waiting. So they then found that the waiters,

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Speaker 3: the kids who could wait, had better coping skills and

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Speaker 3: were more socially competent and self assertive, as well as

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Speaker 3: being more trustworthy, dependable, and academically successful. So in the end,

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Speaker 3: the waiters actually scored two hundred and ten points higher.

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Speaker 3: Are average in their SATs, which is the US Scholastic

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Speaker 3: Aptitude Assessment tests required to be taken before entering college.

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Speaker 3: So it's really really interesting. And they redid this experiment

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and five a researcher called Joachim de

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Speaker 3: Posada and Ellen Singer, I've actually heard Jiachim speak. And

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Speaker 3: he then wrote a book called Don't Eat the Marshmallows,

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Speaker 3: so our parents can go and look this up. And

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Speaker 3: they got exactly the same results in two thousand and

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Speaker 3: five as they got in the nineteen sixties. But isn't

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Speaker 3: that fascinating.

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Speaker 2: I think that the marshmallow tests has been really really interesting,

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Speaker 2: and all the subsequent work on it has been also

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Speaker 2: quite interesting. For instance, the study that was done that

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Speaker 2: looked at reliable versus unreliable outcomes and also class playing

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Speaker 2: a role, So kids who knew they were going to

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Speaker 2: get the marshmallow for sure were more likely to wait

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Speaker 2: than kids who weren't if they were going to get

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Speaker 2: the marshmallow because you know, backgrounds where things were inconsistent

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Speaker 2: or so. That was also quite an interesting thing about

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Speaker 2: how being reliable with your kids also determines whether they're

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Speaker 2: able to wait to wait.

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Speaker 1: Yes, their behavior.

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Speaker 3: So when you say being reliable, it's things like getting

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Speaker 3: to school to fetch them when you said you would.

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Speaker 3: It's about can you put food on the table every night,

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Speaker 3: It's about routines. Routines create a sense of reliability and

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Speaker 3: predictability that make it safe enough for your kids to

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Speaker 3: be able to wait.

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Speaker 1: So I think you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: You know, class background, et cetera can have, you know,

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Speaker 3: a huge bearing on being able to wait. But there

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Speaker 3: are also other things that can show children how the

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Speaker 3: passage of time, you know, can heal things. So take,

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Speaker 3: for example, they fall and scrape their knee, and they've

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Speaker 3: got a lovely big roasty on their knee, And it

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Speaker 3: takes time for a scab to form on a wound,

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Speaker 3: and it's the most remarkable healing system that the body

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Speaker 3: has to close an open wound. And it gives you

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to talk about how the body, for example,

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Speaker 3: creates this network of this spider web of fibrin and

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Speaker 3: then it catches the blood platelets, and then those blood

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Speaker 3: platelets dry out and it creates a scab that does

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Speaker 3: not happen the minute your child scrapes their knee. It

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Speaker 3: happens over days, so we can really teach our children

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Speaker 3: in very concrete ways how things happen over time and

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Speaker 3: we have to wet. Your child breaks their arm or

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Speaker 3: their wrist and they've got to be in a cast

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Speaker 3: for six weeks. Oh my goodness, my children went through this.

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Speaker 3: I went through this, and it's very frustrating. But we

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Speaker 3: do learn at the feet of frustration, disappointment.

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Speaker 1: And not getting what we want straight away.

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Speaker 3: So that's another area where we can really help our

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Speaker 3: children to learn how to wait, is not to fall

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Speaker 3: into the trap of giving them everything they want when

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Speaker 3: they ask, which today is quite difficult because number one, they.

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Speaker 1: Know we have credit cards. Number two, due to parental guilt.

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Speaker 3: Parents want to keep their children happy and so they

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Speaker 3: just give in and give their children what they want

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Speaker 3: when they ask for it.

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Speaker 1: So that's a biggie.

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Speaker 3: Simply don't give your children everything they ask for when

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Speaker 3: they ask for it. Our children definitely do suffer from

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Speaker 3: a deficiency of vitamin N, which is vitamin NO.

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Speaker 1: And it's really okay to.

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Speaker 3: Say no to your kids and get them to wait

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Speaker 3: from time to time.

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Speaker 1: Think about homework, books.

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Speaker 3: Homework takes time, it's irritating, it's frustrating our kids have

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Speaker 3: to do it, but it is part of learning self discipline.

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Speaker 2: And I guess even as parents, I mean, we often

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Speaker 2: talk about this that often the first role model, the

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Speaker 2: first kind of behavior kids will mimic as their parents.

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Speaker 2: So even as parents, there's an opportunity as caregivers to

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Speaker 2: mimic that behavior of delaying, gratification, of waiting, of learning

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Speaker 2: that you know, some things just need time, like you

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Speaker 2: know you just need to wait for certain things. So

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Speaker 2: even as parents, even if you don't teach the kids,

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Speaker 2: you know the lesson overtly, your kids are always watching

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Speaker 2: and to have an opportunity to teach them the lessons

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Speaker 2: in that way.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: I've got a beautiful example from two weeks ago. I

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Speaker 3: took myself away for a week to rest and recharge

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Speaker 3: for the rest of the year.

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Speaker 1: And what did I do.

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Speaker 3: I did things I don't usually do, like I don't

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Speaker 3: have time to build puzzles on a normal day. And

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Speaker 3: I was building a puzzle, and puzzles can vary in

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Speaker 3: difficulty based on the number of pieces, the size of

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Speaker 3: the pieces, and the complexity.

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Speaker 1: Of the picture.

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Speaker 3: And I went out for dinner with friends and she

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Speaker 3: was talking about how she'd found a very nice puzzle,

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Speaker 3: a range of puzzles which have big pieces, medium sized pieces,

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Speaker 3: and small pieces so you can build them with your

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Speaker 3: children of different ages. And she's got grandchildren, so her

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Speaker 3: youngest grandchild is helping her to build this puzzle, and

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Speaker 3: the youngest grandchild is building the bigger pieces, the eight

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Speaker 3: year old is building with the medium sized pieces, and

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Speaker 3: granny is building with the difficult small pieces.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, what a.

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Speaker 3: Brilliant, brilliant way of teaching your children to collaborate with

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Speaker 3: you to co create this beautiful puzzle, all at the

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Speaker 3: right age level because of the different sized pieces.

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Speaker 1: But you're all.

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Speaker 3: Waiting but doing the self discipline work to build this

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Speaker 3: beautiful picture. So they can see that you can't actually

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Speaker 3: build it in two minutes, that you also are taking

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Speaker 3: time to find your pieces to match your pieces. And

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Speaker 3: isn't that a beautiful way of conveying the lesson?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so again this you know you often speak

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Speaker 2: about how we can use everyday activities. You know, it

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Speaker 2: either builds closeness with our children, that kind of that

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Speaker 2: intimacy that I see you that children need from their parents,

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Speaker 2: but also here use something as simple as a puzzle

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Speaker 2: to teach quite an important lesson. So kind of looking

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Speaker 2: for moments in the day, no matter how small, to

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Speaker 2: teach crucial lessons is still a way that you can

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Speaker 2: use for this lesson as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's lots of different examples. You know, you

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Speaker 3: may depending on your faith, there are faith based lessons

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Speaker 3: that require waiting. So you know, it could be something

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Speaker 3: like for Christians we have lent. It could be the

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Speaker 3: forty days leading up to Easter. It could be in

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Speaker 3: the Jewish tradition we've just had Russia Shana to Yom Kapur.

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Speaker 3: Muslims fast during Ramadan. So there are lots of faith

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Speaker 3: based rituals that require discipline and waiting. Getting your children

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Speaker 3: to do disagreeable things so they don't really want to do,

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Speaker 3: like chores, you know it's worth it's worth making sure

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Speaker 3: that your children don't always do what they want to do,

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Speaker 3: but do what has to be done to keep life,

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Speaker 3: women and family together. So daily household chores are good.

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Speaker 3: Making jelly is a brilliant way to make children wait

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Speaker 3: because they're all excited because jelly changes state from dry powder.

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Speaker 3: You make it into a liquid and then you put

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Speaker 3: it into the fridge and it takes three hours to

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Speaker 3: set into a gel. Then we've got growing beans. Growing

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Speaker 3: beans is a process, So children need to learn that

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Speaker 3: life is a process. It's not an event. Take your

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Speaker 3: children to restaurants, they have to wait for the food

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Speaker 3: to arrive. They have to sit patiently. I always say,

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Speaker 3: when your children are younger, take a game with you

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Speaker 3: so that they can learn how to wait and be

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Speaker 3: busy and distract it from you know, the pain of waiting.

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Speaker 3: And so gradually we extend their concentration span as well,

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Speaker 3: like teaching them how to build puzzles, like completing tasks

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Speaker 3: like building Lego. For example, they want to build that castle, Well,

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Speaker 3: that complicated castle might take them a while to build, so,

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Speaker 3: you know, play is a beautiful way of teaching children

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Speaker 3: how to wait, how to resist temptation, how to be patient,

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Speaker 3: how to be self disciplined. So many different ways to

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Speaker 3: teach children self discipline and how to wait.

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Speaker 2: And so if parents and caregivers are looking for some tools,

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Speaker 2: some resources, where can they go?

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Speaker 3: So you can go to Nicky Bush dot com and

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Speaker 3: in future Proof your Child, we have a whole section

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Speaker 3: which is about developing the X factors for success in

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Speaker 3: your children, and there is a specific one with tips

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Speaker 3: for teaching children to do developed self discipline and the

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Speaker 3: ability to delay gratification.

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Speaker 2: Nicki, as always, it's a great player for having you

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Speaker 2: on the show. Thank you so much for your time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks googs, have a great weekend you too.

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Speaker 2: That's our resident parenting and human potential expert Nicki Botch

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Speaker 2: joining us this morning. Coming up, we have a look

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Speaker 2: at what's happening in seven to Land. We start in

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Speaker 2: downtown Joburg, in central Joeburg where My Josie is launching

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Speaker 2: a new campaign, Babize Born Game. We'll speak to Don Robertson,

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Speaker 2: whose visitor and creator economy catalyst at Josey My Jersey.

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Speaker 2: We'll also talk ballet because the spring season at Joebag

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Speaker 2: Ballet has just launched us. We'll speak to the CEO

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Speaker 2: of Joeburg Ballet about this new season, ol Roy Fullest

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Speaker 2: Spelt will join us for that conversation. But first, very

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Speaker 2: busy sporting weekend. Let's check in with all of the

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Speaker 2: results and fixtures with the Eyewitness New Sport with Anthony

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Speaker 2: to Schada