WEBVTT - Consumer Talk with Wendy Knowler: Third party vendors 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:06.000 Lunch Boy with Pilpa Hudson and now Consumer Talk featuring 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:08.680 with Wendy Nola. 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:09.160 Before we bring in Wendy. 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.560 Tracy, thanks for your message, already responding saying, yay, I 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.200 love rugby and I've tried for years but still don't 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.160 understand the rules. Now with two boys playing the game, 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.640 I need to understand the rule book from a sport dummy. Well, 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.000 Tracy's book to spot with us on Tuesday at two 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.400 o'clock next week. I hope you will join us and 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:28.000 learn more about the sport of rugby. 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:29.480 Tracy, thanks for the enthusiasm. 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.159 We're all really excited about the series and we've got 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.559 some fantastic guests lined up, so really looking forward to it. 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:37.599 For now, though, we are switching our focus to consumer 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:39.680 affairs and Wendy Nooda joining us by a zoom this 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.920 afternoon from Johannesburg. We are going to be discussing another 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.559 aspect of risk associated with online shopping, and this is 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.920 particularly today, the problems associated with platforms that include third 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.760 party vendors. If you are quite sure what that means, 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.240 we'll explain in just a moment, but just to say, 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:58.560 if you've had experience with these issues that we're talking 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.200 about today. If you'd like to join the conversation, give 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.240 us a WhatsApp to seven two five six seven one 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.120 five six seven or a call to two one four 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:08.760 four six o five six seven. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:09.119 Great. 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:14.160 Have you with us, Wendy welcome. We don't seem to have. 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:16.440 Audio on your sound Wendy, if you can just check 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.200 that you're not muted on the zoom on that end, 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:23.199 apologies for that. Wendy joining us from Johannesburg this afternoon 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:25.640 to discuss the matter, and. 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:27.639 There we go. I think we've got you now, Wendy. Welcome, 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:29.280 Rookie Era. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.360 Sorry, yes, good to be with you. 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:33.240 There's been a while since we did by zoom, so 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.760 you are forgiven, Wenny. Today's topic isn't just fueled by 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.240 listener complaints, although we have had a number of those. 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.520 It's actually been flagged as a problem by the Consumer 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.160 Goods and Services on But hasn't. 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:48.560 It Yes, indeed to the umbut who is the Consumer 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:49.640 Goods and Services on Board? 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:50.520 Lee Sobrati. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:53.920 He spoke out just last week at the release of 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.080 the ubert's twenty twenty four to twenty five an Your Report, 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:02.200 But he actually had led this issue many consumers buying, 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.880 as you said, products on large, well known retailed websites, 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.960 so there's a trust factor there, right, not realizing that 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.920 they are actually dealing with an unknown third party vendor 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.000 that are being you know, that are piggybacking on that 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.680 big player being hosted on the site. And obviously there's 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.080 a fee that they pay for that. But it's only 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.200 so many of these these transactions. These purchases would go 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:27.840 off without a hitch, no problem, but when things go 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.840 wrong with the product or the delivery, or the customer 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.120 realizes that, you know, they were doing business with a 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:39.760 company that they you know, they didn't realize, then there 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:45.600 can be disputes and some you know, unfortunate kind of dispute, well, 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:47.720 disputes and problems that arise out of that. 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:49.520 It all sounds quite familiar. 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.760 We've actually tackled a case or two like this fairly recently, Wendy. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.200 Yes, the one was a little while ago, but it 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.720 was one of my standout cases. It was a summerset 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.440 where man who bought a laptop from take a Lot 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.920 which turned out to be stolen. Weirdly, I think it 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.120 was more more than a year. I mean close to 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.720 two years later, he was working on it and suddenly 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:15.480 this screen popped up, freezing his his laptop, making it 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:19.040 unusable for him, and saying that it was stolen from 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.600 a government department, a contry member, which one remember that, 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:27.120 and yeah, and so naturally he wanted, you know, a refund, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:32.160 and it got very messy, went on for months and months, 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.640 even after our intervention, and finally he you know, take 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.280 a lot to take responsibility. And the other one was 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.880 was earlier this year Amanda, also of Cape Town, she 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:47.800 ordered a Guardina specific brand, well known, reputable brand of 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.080 host pipe off the Macro website, only to receive a 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.119 cheap and nasty knockoff. She was given a real run 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.520 around when she tried to return it because once again 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.920 the seller was not actually Macro itself but a third 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.560 party vendors selling on their platform. And she was finally refunded. 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.160 I think it was two months after the purchase, after 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:08.400 she came to us for help. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.440 Okay, so thanks thanks for reminding us of those examples. 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.720 I'm sure listeners will remember them. But Wendy, as you 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.800 said at the start, it's not just our complainants raising 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.000 the red flags here. Last week the consumer goods and 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.800 services Onbitsman Lisa Brati highlighted this issue in the release 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:25.840 of the latest annual reports. Can you tell us a 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:27.200 little bit of an overview of what he said? 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.240 No, I think it's best for me to quote exactly 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.280 from his report. He said, it's clear that many consumers 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.800 do not understand the implications of transacting with legitimate online 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:43.400 platforms that host third party suppliers commonly referred to as marketplaces. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.560 As these proliferate, he said, we anticipate that's the orbit's 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.720 office that more complaints from consumers who think they are 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.920 trading with a well known platform, only to find themselves 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.320 having to deal with an unknown vendor when things go wrong. 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.359 He then went on to say that his office was 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:04.200 working hard to ensure that consumers, especially vulnerable ones, understand 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:09.239 what to look for when shopping on marketplaces. He says, 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:13.000 the tease agencies are usually clear in this regard, but 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:17.839 a surprising number of people, even experienced online shoppers, fail 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:18.599 to read them. 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:19.400 And don't we know that. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.279 We know that all too well. Guilty has charged and 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:24.120 we've spoken about this very very often. 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.440 When there were particular key issues within the sort of 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.159 category of problems that he flagged. You want to just 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:31.240 elaborate for us. 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.599 Sure, so he said, There include who exactly is responsible 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.080 for the delivery of the goods and the successful delivery 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.919 of the goods. Who must provide customers or their receipt 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:44.719 as proof of purchase, especially when it comes to needing 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.600 to lodge a warranty with the manufacturer on the goods 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:52.040 purchased if they become somehow effective. 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.560 And also whether the housing this. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.560 Is very important, not housing, whether the hosting platform that 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:01.599 big name will assist with a plant relating to non 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:05.640 delivery or return should goods become defective, because you really 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.920 don't want to be left on your own trying to 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.960 deal with a third party that you didn't even know 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.440 existed before you place the order came. 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:16.800 So yeah, it. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.320 Would seem then, judging from his remarks, which went on 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.039 for a number of paragraphs in his report, that that 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:26.040 office has also been fielding complaints around this issue. 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.680 Okay, so we've had a couple of new ones as well. 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:29.919 Do you want to tell us about the case of 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.480 Kyle Wells also here in cape to on our caped 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.200 on shoppers having unfortunes experiences by the looks of things. 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:36.760 What happened? 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:38.840 Yeah, this is the case I took up. 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.719 He bought a laptop on Take a Lot last April, 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.560 and when its charger exploded earlier this year, he went 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.839 looking for an invoice on the app in order to 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.839 make a warranty claim it was founder warranty. 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:52.640 When he couldn't find. 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.520 Any invoice or any proof of purchase, he turned to 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.039 Take a Lot for help, but Take a Lot said 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.279 its third party supplier was nonrous re sponsors to its 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.279 request to provide said proof of purchase. Take a Lot's 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.000 tease and c state that third party sellers are responsible 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.840 for providing an invoice to the registered user that would 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.280 be the buyer KYL in this case. But the UMBERT 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:19.000 says consumer protection laws compel intermediaries that's their technical name 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.240 in terms of the CPA, such as Take a Lot, 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.120 to ensure that a full record of the transaction be 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.760 provided to the consumer. Take a Lot in this case 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:30.120 said well, we can't get hold of them. You know, 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.120 it's over to you. And he came to me and said, 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.840 well if I can't get hold if they can't get 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.400 hold of them, I don't take a Lot, am I 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:38.520 supposed exactly. 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.520 I mean, Wendy, surely these platforms should be doing due 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.360 diligence about who they allowed to trade as a third party. 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.600 I mean, it's in their best interests because it's their 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:49.240 reputation that's compromised. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:50.640 Kyle isn't telling his. 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.520 Friends I bought a laptop and the charger exploded, and 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.120 I bought it from third party vendor Xyzz. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.200 He's telling them me bought it on Take a Lot exactly. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:00.840 So Take a Lot. 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.760 When I questioned them about this, said that all third 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.200 party sellers have to go through a robust vetting process 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.200 before they can start trading on the platform. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:10.440 I was told. 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.840 They are required to submit documentation and information which is 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:18.720 automatically checked and validated using a matrix of databases. They 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:24.320 check with plice, and they check company registration records and 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.400 if this and also the seller's sources of supply are 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.880 validated using previous invoice checks. If the seller doesn't pass 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.280 the checks and overall vetting process, they are not permitted 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.080 to trade on Take a Lot, I was told. And 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.600 on the rare occasions when the checks and balances fail, 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.960 as in this case, we assist customers as best as 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.640 possible and then they said, you know that the cell 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:48.920 had been unresponsive in this case. 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.240 Excuse me, horrible frog. 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:54.640 Okay, you source off the frog while I read a 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.880 question that's coming from Jenny, who I think is asking 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.320 the million dollar questions that everyone's wondering. If I've bought 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:03.720 an item from Take a Lot, surely my contract is 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.319 with Take a Lot rather than with the vendor who 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.480 supplied the item to Take a Lot. 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.600 And we're going to delve Jenny. Thanksful for that, You've 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:12.000 nailed it. 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.120 That is the key question here is where does the 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:18.160 responsibility sit in that contractual relationship. And we're going to 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.360 delve a little bit into that because the omber has 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.560 had quite a lot to say about how the law 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.439 views all the parties in this case. When the important 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:27.720 to say that, in Kyle's case, Take a Lot has 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:33.840 suspended the supplier of that exploding laptop charger until such 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.280 time as they have been able to establish contact with 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.400 them and resolve this matter. But in the meantime, I mean, 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.600 Kyle's got no way of lodging a warranty claim in 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:44.559 respect of the defective product. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.400 Indeed, but after I'd started making a bit of noise 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.679 about this and the OMBUD had champed in with his 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:55.320 feelings on the matter. Take a Lot didn't tell me this, 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.960 but they let Kyle know that they were giving him 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.840 a replacement laptop and he got said laptop, so he 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.560 was sorted out that way. But yes, it does speak 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.959 to the responsibility factor when you go to a certain 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:14.680 retail online retail site and you have a certain level 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.840 of you feel a certain level of comfort and protection. 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.080 Yeah, yeah, that what is it in reality? 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:21.559 Yeah? 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.880 Okay, Now to Journey's point about here, where does the 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.280 responsibility lie here? Who is your contract with and what 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.360 are the obligations in that contractual relationship? When you asked 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.319 the OMBUT for comment on this case, and they were 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.840 absolutely clear that in terms of the Consumer Protection Act, 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:40.160 and intermediary in any transaction has got to keep proper 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.680 records of all relationships and transactions, and that for the 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:47.040 purposes of e commerce, they would regard the hosting platform 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.280 as an intermediary. So, in other words, whether it's take 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:53.800 a Lot or Macro or any other major sales platform 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:58.439 that is hosting a third party vendor, the major platform 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.560 is regarded officially as an intermediary and they are obliged 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.480 to comply with the Consumer Protection Act in that regard. 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.680 So they were absolutely unequivocal in that. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:15.240 So the major plate there intermedia. Yeah, there's exactly, and 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.840 they must comply with what the Act says about that 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:19.480 and their responsibilities accordingly. 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:21.760 Okay, as a matter of interest, did he give you 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.120 any indication of just how many of these kinds of 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.800 complaints they are receiving about third party vendors? 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:31.320 No, they in the annual report released last thursday. As 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:32.800 I said, there were a lot of stats in there 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.320 and break certain breakdowns, but it doesn't dive that deep 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.960 in terms of, you know what categories of online complaints. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:43.559 Obviously this was one of them to be singled out. 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.360 But all all they shared was that of the twelve 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:50.920 two hundred odd complaints received between the beginning of March 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.600 last year and the end of February this year, online 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.400 complaints with the largest category at nineteen percent. And that 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.120 was a trend that began in twenty twenty when a 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.079 lot of people who had been sitting on the sad lands, 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.840 maybe only you know, booking an airline ticket online but 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.640 not shopping, you know, jumped in with both feet and 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.080 as the numbers go up, as the online starts from 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:19.600 life eight, so you know the number of complaints about 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.839 things going wrong then you know continue to arise every 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.480 year proportionately with with the Onbird's office. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:27.920 I've just done a quick calculation in the background here, 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.760 and if they've received twelve two hundred and seven complaints 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.720 in a single year, that means approximately thirty three people 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.880 are lodging complaints every single day of the year, Wendy. Okay, 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.240 And I'm surprised you've said that, So six or seven 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.040 online complaints that with twenty percent is the accurate figure. 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.840 That's six or seven complaints a day. As you said, 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:51.560 considering the huge escalation in online shopping usage, I'm also 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.360 a bit surprised the figure isn't higher than that. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:54.040 Now. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:58.120 You also had an interesting engagement with another local supplier, Wendy, 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.559 about another aspect to the third party story, which is 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.480 third party vendors selling knockoffs of legitimate brands products. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:05.800 Yeah. 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.720 So the Waco Group, which owns the Yellow brand, shared 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.120 with me is concerns about Yellow knockoffs being put up 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:20.000 for sale by vendors on various online marketplace places. I 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.440 was told by their head of marketing, Carl Lucas that 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.680 it happens, you know, across the board, take a lot, Amazon, 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.920 Macro and others. He says, Fortunately, we have established channels 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:35.239 within those e retailers to report and remove fake listings, 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.240 and now that the removal of those listings happens usually 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.640 within twenty four hours in the space of a month. Recently, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.760 he said, I think it's June to July, the Wicco 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.720 team successfully requested online retailers to remove more than one 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:55.000 hundred fake listings and in one month, they said. He said, 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.480 the company puts that down, you know, being able to 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:02.080 do it, you know, efficiently and quickly in you know, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:06.280 with their relationship with those marketplaces. It's due to their 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.640 size and resources. But he said, smaller brands and customers 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.040 probably don't stand a chance. And we're sure these fraudsters 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.640 are targeting other shopping categories too, and we know that 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:17.120 they are. 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:18.959 So what the. 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:20.800 Fakers are doing, I'm calling them the fake is they 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:25.320 use various combination of Cello's brand name, product titles, images, 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:30.120 written descriptions, even the product codes on those marketplace, says, 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.920 you know, piggybacking on the on the big names, creating 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.240 the impression that customers are purchasing authentic Sealo items and 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.920 he says, I've lost my place. 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:43.320 When they. 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.400 When they complain, when they when they when they report this, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:54.240 obviously they are removed quickly. But the people fulfilling those 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.040 orders though, the ones that you know where customers buy 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:03.520 before the listings are removed, they're using substant materials and constructions, 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.000 and they they reckon. 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:06.480 It's small backyard. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.800 Artfits just seeing the pictures and trying to do a 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.680 cobble together and not something that looks but usually not 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.920 normally quite badly, and the moment there arrived, the purchaser 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.360 knows something that is definitely wrong. But you can imagine 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.840 the damage to the brand if someone does, think well, 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.160 because the complaints would go to them, right, what if 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.360 you what kind of quality is this? 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.440 Yew Okay, thanks for flagging that. 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.200 After the news break, we're going to come back to 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.760 another aspect of the third party vendor issue that also 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.400 applies to other brands and established platforms as well. So 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.840 stay with us, and if you've had experience with this 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.920 issue of buying from a major platform thinking you were 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.160 buying directly from that platform, only to discover that you'd 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:51.560 been receiving an item from a third party vendor and 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.600 then had difficulty engaging with them for any reason. 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:01.600 WhatsApp seven to five, six seven one, six to seven. 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.400 Well, here's the what's up from Moyra with an example 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.920 of what we've just been discussing, and then Melane will 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.440 get to your particular issue in just a moment because 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:11.600 it's directly relevant to the next thing we want to 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.480 talk about first. Though, Moyra has had the experience Wendy. 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.000 She says in May, I bought a Mylex vacuum from 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.440 Lout and when it broke five weeks ago, was told 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:22.960 I need to get in touch directly with the supplier 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.480 to sort it out. I had a long wait, firstly 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.760 for that first feedback from lut and then secondly for 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:32.120 feedback from Mylex themselves, and I still don't have a 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.520 vacuum cleaner, is her comment. She said happily. The previous 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.600 time she had an issue with something bought on Take 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.600 a Lot, she again was asked to deal no, sorry, 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:43.000 take a Lot. I bought a scale from Take a Lot, 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.320 she says, it didn't work. They sent me a replacement 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.920 that also didn't work. I sent it back and was 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.840 given credit, but I did then contact the supplier who 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.080 curied me a new scale at no cost, So in 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.560 that case it ended well for Moira. In fact, she 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.240 got a double whammy. She got a new scale and 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:58.720 she got a credit from Take a Lot. 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.440 So two weeks should rectify that? 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.600 Yeah, yeah, but you should rectify one thing about the credit. 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.160 The retailers tend to default to that, but you don't 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.600 have to accept that. If you want to refund, you're 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.440 entitled to it, and they normally do say that if 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.359 you if you prefer, But what they should ideally do 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.320 is before they do anything, say which would you like 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.280 if you're a regular shopper. On that side, it makes 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.399 sense to have a credit because it's immediate, and if 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:29.000 it's a refund it takes much longer. So I'm just 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:30.960 just saying, if you want your money back, you don't 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:31.960 have to accept a credit. 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.480 If the dict is defective, do you have. 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:36.399 To accept being told you must sort it out with 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.320 the supplier or should it not be the platform you 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:39.920 bought it from? 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:41.360 Problem to rectify? 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:42.920 I think no. 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.200 If it's in the first six months, certainly under the 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.440 CPA they must take responsibility, and certainly in a case 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.640 like this, where the customer is coming to you as 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:59.280 this reputable, dependable, major player in the industry. This is 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.920 not somebody that would nor merely choose to buy from 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:03.440 Sunshine one to three. 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:04.200 You know what I mean. 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:09.280 It's they are trusting you to have properly vetted and 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.240 stand by this third party that you are now allowing 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.280 allowing on the site. So they should do their due 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:19.919 diligence and if something goes wrong, and it's a question 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.800 to ask, and I would certainly do that so you 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.879 know what you can expect if something does go wrong. 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:29.840 So I think in some cases they do, in in 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:31.600 other cases they don't. 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:33.280 But I would. 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.600 Certainly if it happened to me, I would certainly insist 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.720 that they deal with their supplier and not make it 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:43.159 your problem, not make it properly because they should have 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:43.960 vetted them properly. 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:45.480 Right, absolutely, absolutely. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.800 You are putting your trust in the brig, the big brand, 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.120 and shopping on the big brand for a reason because 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:51.840 it is a trusted brand. So they need to do there, 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.320 but to ensure the integrity of what that brand represents 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.000 in terms of how they're vetting who goes on that platform. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:58.439 So I mean the bottom line for listeners. 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.240 Here, Wendy is obviously again playing cost attention to the 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.600 small prints. When you are buying a product, if there 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:06.960 is a line there saying that this is a third 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.320 party vendor seller Xyz for example, an even I heard 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:10.959 of that person. 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:13.520 I mean, I've done it. 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:18.080 Many times, but be mindful that both take a lot 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:22.480 and Macro for example, they will use the words. 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:23.960 Sold by and it'll be a company. Don't know. 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.119 I should just say I did ask Macro for comment 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.920 and they said they opened their website to third party 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.359 sellers in twenty eighteen. Items sold by third party sellers 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.720 are indicated on the product display page as I've seen 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:37.480 through a message saying sold by. 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:38.360 And the business name. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:43.040 All suppliers, including marketplace sellers, are contracted to comply with 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:47.600 relevant legal obligations, including those prescribed in intellectual property law 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.760 and the Consumer Protection Act. I was told by Macro 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.560 if the authenticity of products, and this was my quer 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:57.400 was specifically around the knockoffs. If the authenticity of products 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:01.200 is in question, including through proact of weekly scanning of 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:07.120 the marketplace product catalog, then those products are removed from sale. 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.400 I also had a case just quickly say talking about 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.639 just thinking about it when they said they require the 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.679