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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: O two. Let's walk at all.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis has brought to you

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Speaker 2: by ABS, a corporate and investment banking Refined performance is

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Speaker 2: a measure of discipline. That's how we're invested in your

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Speaker 2: story as a registered FSP. Good evening, nine minutes after six.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the program. I'm Stephen Curtis. One of those

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Speaker 2: days in which I sort of feel the world has

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Speaker 2: changed slightly since I last spoke to you, and I'm talking,

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Speaker 2: of course about the US attacks, the Israeli attacks on Iran,

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Speaker 2: Iran's response targeting several places in the Middle East, including Israel,

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Speaker 2: but also places like Katar, like Uae, like Dubai, all

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Speaker 2: of that, and the impact that this is going to

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Speaker 2: have on us eventually. There's no doubt in my mind

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Speaker 2: that this is going to have an impact on us.

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Speaker 2: We will talk about oil, we will talk about international markets.

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Speaker 2: US markets, by the way, seem to be coming back

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Speaker 2: quite strongly already. We will be talking about shipping in

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Speaker 2: a few moments. I would like to ask you, though,

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Speaker 2: in your business, whatever it is, I mean, you might

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Speaker 2: be part of a restaurant chain that has a Middle

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Speaker 2: East operation, like Tasha's. There are others. I think famous

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Speaker 2: brands has exposure there too. If I remember correctly, Nando's

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Speaker 2: must do so other places too. If you're part of

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Speaker 2: a business, if you have people, if you have workers,

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Speaker 2: if you have relatives in the Middle East at the moment,

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Speaker 2: what's your major concern? And I'm not asking you what

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Speaker 2: are you worried about what's going to happen. I'm asking

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Speaker 2: you what's your major concern from a sort of business

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Speaker 2: point of view. Feel free to let me know what

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Speaker 2: you think is going to happen in the end. I'm

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Speaker 2: afraid to say, and we've seen this before, particularly with

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Speaker 2: the US action in the Middle East. You don't go

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Speaker 2: to democracy in one move. Life doesn't really work like that.

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Speaker 2: In the only country in the world that I can

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Speaker 2: see that's gone from oppression to democracy in one move

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Speaker 2: is actually South Africa and has stayed democratic. So many

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Speaker 2: others have not done that, And so I just have

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Speaker 2: a horrible feeling that what we're likely to see is

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Speaker 2: a long period of instability in Iran and that will

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Speaker 2: affect the countries around it. So the business that you're in,

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Speaker 2: what concerns you the most might just be higher inflation,

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Speaker 2: higher oil prices, all of those things that are going

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Speaker 2: to have an impact on us. And I'm afraid they

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Speaker 2: might even take an interest rate cut off the table

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Speaker 2: later in the next couple of months. So all of

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Speaker 2: those things definitely going to have an impact. Looking for

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Speaker 2: to your views. On seven to two, seven oh two,

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Speaker 2: one seven oh two, we'll speak to the outgoing CEO

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Speaker 2: at the JASE, doctor Leila for Re in just a moment,

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Speaker 2: really stellar results and we'll sort of explain why in

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Speaker 2: just a moment. Tim Timothy Walker is at the ISS,

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Speaker 2: is an expert on maritime security. We'll talk to him

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Speaker 2: about chipping in the Strait of Hormuz. We'll get in

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Speaker 2: a sort of deeper understanding of what's happening and what

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Speaker 2: is going to happen on international markets over the next

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Speaker 2: few days. John Stopford's the head of Multi asseid Income

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Speaker 2: at ninety one, And I don't know if you have

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Speaker 2: a view on this, if maybe you know something about

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Speaker 2: the sugar industry, but our cl foods they're battling because

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Speaker 2: of sugar imports. What I still don't understand, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to ask the SEO, poor crooks, just before seven

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Speaker 2: o'clock is why is it more expensive to produce sugar

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Speaker 2: here than it is in other places? Is it about

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Speaker 2: the rain? Is it about the cost of something else?

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Speaker 2: The cost I don't know of, labor, of machinery, whatever

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Speaker 2: it is. Why is it more expensive to produce electricity

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Speaker 2: here and sell it here than to produce it somewhere

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Speaker 2: else and ship it here? Looking forward to that conversation,

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Speaker 2: O double one double A three seven oh two is

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Speaker 2: the number two one four, four six, five six seven

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Speaker 2: And your views please on the situation the middle least

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Speaker 2: how it's going to affect you? On seven two seven

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Speaker 2: oh two one seven oh two.

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Speaker 3: The Lonely Show with Stephen Kruger's Live on ninety two

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Speaker 3: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 3: Media Plus.

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Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: The j IS three reporting higher trading volumes over the

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Speaker 2: year to the end of December, helping them to record profits.

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Speaker 2: Their net profit after tax up nearly seventeen percent, return

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Speaker 2: on equity up by twenty two percent. They've declared a

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Speaker 2: special dividend as a result. Doctor Leila free is the

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Speaker 2: do I say outgoing CEO Leila, Good evening, welcome to

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Speaker 2: the program, and thank you for your time. An incredible

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Speaker 2: year for the JC, for the index, and that's reflected

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Speaker 2: in your results. You've had a very strong boost from

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Speaker 2: what's happened over the last year, the last eighteen months.

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Speaker 5: Perhaps yeah, indeed, high Stephen, and we have certainly the

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Speaker 5: JC share prices indicated the bull market that we've been in,

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Speaker 5: and we've also seen a tremendous surgeon average daily value traded,

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Speaker 5: so huge activity. If we go back in history, you

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Speaker 5: see that the index market cap and the value traded

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Speaker 5: tend to correlate, and we last saw a run of

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Speaker 5: a similar nature between sort of two double oh three

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Speaker 5: and two double O six and we've now seen a

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Speaker 5: sort of consistent uplift over the last two years. And

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Speaker 5: it is really within a supportive macro economic environment within

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Speaker 5: South Africa. So the jc's really pleased. Our shareholders, I

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Speaker 5: think are very pleased. They've indicated that by through the

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Speaker 5: share price today, we ended as the top performing or

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Speaker 5: share stock for the day and I think that the

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Speaker 5: I think the special dividend and the overall ordinary dividend

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Speaker 5: was very well received. It was up twenty eight percent

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Speaker 5: on prior year.

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Speaker 2: You're trading volumes during this period, as you say, so

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Speaker 2: much higher? Is it possible to know? And I suppose

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Speaker 2: there's so many different ways to calculate it. Is there

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Speaker 2: a kind of average by which they've been higher? I mean,

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Speaker 2: would they have been twenty percent higher per day than

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Speaker 2: the prior period for example?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, we calculate that daily. Our average daily value traded

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Speaker 5: is up by thirty two percent for last year and

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Speaker 5: year today it's up by thirty four percent. In fact,

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Speaker 5: tomorrow it'll be up by much more because today was

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Speaker 5: a very big day, as you can imagine. So we

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Speaker 5: watch those stats daily, and this is indicative of a

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Speaker 5: lot more volatility with these enormous rotations that you've seen

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Speaker 5: in and out of resources through the hyperfolatile period that

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Speaker 5: we've had last year, and also a very strong indication

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Speaker 5: of what's happening with internationals now starting to re enter

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Speaker 5: the country. So on you on, even year to date,

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Speaker 5: it's continued. We are the net foreign inflows in the

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Speaker 5: bond market on nearly double what we've seen year to

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Speaker 5: date previously last year we were twenty four billion twenty

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Speaker 5: four point eight billion up net inflows, and this year,

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Speaker 5: we're fifty two billion. Even in the market. In the

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Speaker 5: equity market, we've seen something similar where holdings by internationals

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Speaker 5: have gone up quite substantially. I think one of the

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Speaker 5: things that's driving this is also South Africa is after

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Speaker 5: performing relative to most other emerging markets, and what we've

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Speaker 5: seen over the last year is that are waiting in

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Speaker 5: the Footsy Emerging Market Index has gone up to buy

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Speaker 5: from three point one six percent to four point two

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Speaker 5: nine percent. Now the moment you get closer to a

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Speaker 5: five percent waiting in the index, you really start to matter.

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Speaker 5: So I'm I'm feeling pretty positive and I think investors

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Speaker 5: globally are very much more risk on on South Africa.

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Speaker 5: All of the macro factors that we all know. The

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Speaker 5: factis grade list and upgrading to the you know, upgrading

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Speaker 5: the sovereign rating and and the you know mtbps three

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Speaker 5: percent focused for inflation was or pigging. It has was

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Speaker 5: really well received, so it's ours to mess up in

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Speaker 5: the future. I think, you know, the work that's happening

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Speaker 5: with the soees, the fact that is com is now

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Speaker 5: turning a profit, the physcal credibility that the National Treasury

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Speaker 5: are starting to show, are all great science and signs

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Speaker 5: that this full run may have legs.

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Speaker 2: Sure, it's quite something to watch. One of one of

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Speaker 2: the issues when you started at the j C as

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Speaker 2: the CEO was the concern some companies were delisting. And

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Speaker 2: there's been an important project that you've been a part

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Speaker 2: of that you've led to make listing on the JS

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Speaker 2: sort of simpler and easier. And I mean, from where

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Speaker 2: I said, it seems to have been quite successful. You've

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Speaker 2: had some big listenings in the last year and the

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Speaker 2: more to come this year.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, And I you know, we look at market success

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Speaker 5: through a couple of lenses, so we are very much

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Speaker 5: both a mirror and a mechanism of what's going on

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Speaker 5: in the market. So the mirror is market conditions that

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Speaker 5: we can't control. The mechanism is what can we change,

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Speaker 5: and we've done. We've introduced sweeping listings transformation, the most

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Speaker 5: recent of which went live a couple of a month ago,

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Speaker 5: the simplification project, cutting red tape, etc. And all of

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Speaker 5: these things are enabling, but ultimately you need business confidence

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Speaker 5: to drive listings. Now we've seen a sweeping change on

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Speaker 5: one level. The market cap of the JC when I

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Speaker 5: took over was twelve point eight trillion. It's now twenty

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Speaker 5: four trillion, so almost a doubling of market cap. And

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Speaker 5: we have seen some very successful listings. Last year, Boxer

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Speaker 5: Octasia was a very important signaling listing with a fintech

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Speaker 5: in Africa, the largest fintech in EMA choosing to list

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Speaker 5: on the JSE. They were looking at LC and NASDAK

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Speaker 5: and they chose the JC. And then this year the

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Speaker 5: promise of Canel Plus and also Coca Cola Hellenic are

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Speaker 5: very very important signals, so we think green shoots. We're

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Speaker 5: starting to see some of the regulatory transformation that we've

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Speaker 5: introduced taking effect, but it's early days and we cautiously

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Speaker 5: optimistic on that front.

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Speaker 2: Leila, I don't know if we'll speak to you each

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Speaker 2: other again while you're still CEO of the JC. I

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Speaker 2: think you've got another sort of thirty days left or so,

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Speaker 2: so if I may, just thanks for always being available

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Speaker 2: for us on The Money Show. I know we don't

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Speaker 2: always make it easy, but thank you for your time

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Speaker 2: over the years on The Money Show.

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Speaker 5: We really appreciate it pleasure, and thank you for the

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Speaker 5: responsible and interesting journalism. I've really I really enjoyed engaging

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Speaker 5: with seven o two and it's an important platform.

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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Leila Farid, the outgoing CEO at the JAC, twenty

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Speaker 2: minutes after six.

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Speaker 1: Is on The Money Show six to eight pm.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm at all of the uncertainty, the concern about

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Speaker 2: the US and Israelia strikes in Irani Iran's response, I

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Speaker 2: suppose one of the most important questions for you and

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Speaker 2: I is what will happen to international oil shipments. About

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Speaker 2: twenty percent of the oil ships around the world goes

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Speaker 2: through the Straits of Hormuz. That oil comes from Iran itself, Iraq,

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Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAE, and Katar and that straight

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Speaker 2: is particularly easy for Iran or one of his proxies

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Speaker 2: to block off. Timothy Walker is a senior researcher on

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Speaker 2: maritime security at the Institute for Security Study. Simmothy, Good evening.

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Speaker 2: I would imagine very few ships would feel safe going

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Speaker 2: through the Straits of Hormuz right now.

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Speaker 7: Noo, good evening, Stephen, Thank you for asking me on

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Speaker 7: the show. Hello to everyone listening. Yes, the jittery nature

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Speaker 7: of shipping at the moment is really there for everyone

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Speaker 7: to see. The radio messages which have been broadcast in

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Speaker 7: particular from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps have really caused

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Speaker 7: a tremendous amount of consternation Insurance markets, particular the war

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Speaker 7: insurance which a lot of ships would rely on as

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Speaker 7: a guarantee for them that if they were to be

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Speaker 7: affected in some way by a mine or a MISSILEM

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Speaker 7: would would cover their losses has been canceled for many

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Speaker 7: and the costs of now potentially taking on new insurance.

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Speaker 6: Is too much.

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Speaker 7: Ships so much would much rather stay put and wait

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Speaker 7: to see what the outcome of the next round of

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Speaker 7: strikes and potentially the Ranian reaction is going to be.

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Speaker 2: So for the moment they don't start moving around Cape Ton.

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Speaker 2: They wait to see what happens in another couple of days.

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Speaker 7: Well, some of the shipping companies have already started to

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Speaker 7: indicate that they won't go through the Red Sea because

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Speaker 7: of this incident. I think MASK and CGM to the

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Speaker 7: biggest shipping companies in the world, have already indicated that

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Speaker 7: they're going to cancel some of their transs routes the proximity,

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Speaker 7: for instance, of the Huti to the Red Sea transit passage.

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Speaker 7: In the fact that they are aligned with Iran means

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Speaker 7: that the risk is seen as too high, so we're

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Speaker 7: not looking yet at an increase in shipping around the Cape.

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Speaker 7: That the Cape is always the maritime safety evolve and

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Speaker 7: the fallback option. And I think what's going to really happen,

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Speaker 7: will really matter is over the next twenty five days

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Speaker 7: whether we're going to see a prolonged closure or not,

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Speaker 7: because twenty five days is the amount of time really

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Speaker 7: that the oil producing countries who are stuck behind the

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Speaker 7: straight deformities have before they had to shut down their

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Speaker 7: oil producing capacity, filling up ships, filling up spare capacity

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Speaker 7: to take on that oil. If that fills up, they

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Speaker 7: have to shut down the storage and then you're really

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Speaker 7: going to see an even bigger spike.

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Speaker 2: And can just see all sorts of things would happen. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So various ways for Iran to really sort of close

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Speaker 2: the strait of the moves. I suppose they could sink

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Speaker 2: a ship or several ships in one part of it.

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Speaker 2: There're various groups that you spoke about, the Hooties based

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Speaker 2: in Yemen Iran could sponsor to just launch rocket attacks

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Speaker 2: or sort of pirate attacks. Is it possible for the

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Speaker 2: US and its allies to bring enough military equipment to

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Speaker 2: properly protect each and every ship that goes through there.

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Speaker 2: If this lasts from a long time, is that even

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Speaker 2: a possibility at all, it would seem unlikely.

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Speaker 8: I suppose it would be an enormous challenge.

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Speaker 7: To number of ships which would transit through the area,

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Speaker 7: even on a peaceful time is huge, and the amount

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Speaker 7: of bottled up ships now waiting for some kind of

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Speaker 7: safe passage would be huge as well. The likely option

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Speaker 7: if the Uranians do try and do try and close

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Speaker 7: the strait, that could be through minds laying mines, but

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Speaker 7: that would be very indiscriminate, that could target their own vessels.

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Speaker 7: They really rely on oil own oil being sold through

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Speaker 7: that strait as well, so it would be a real

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Speaker 7: shot in the foot. The likelihood would be the Americans

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Speaker 7: would not they would not tolerate any closure. They would

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Speaker 7: use their military to target coastal missile sites, coastal artillery sites,

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Speaker 7: and their submarines would already be I'm sure, very closely

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Speaker 7: patrolling where the ships which would try and do the

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Speaker 7: blockade would would come out of. Just as an aside

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Speaker 7: as well. One of the Uranian ships which visited South

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Speaker 7: Africa last month for the Will for Peace exercise has

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Speaker 7: been sunk by the United States in the last few days.

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Speaker 7: They really are targeting their navy.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that you made the point that maybe,

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Speaker 2: I mean, we don't know yet if ships will come

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Speaker 2: around the Cape. We didn't make much of that opportunity

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Speaker 2: last time around. The durban porters, in the process of

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Speaker 2: trying to improve Cape times, had a difficult time. Could

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Speaker 2: we make more of that opportunity this time around? I

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Speaker 2: don't know if enough has changed yet.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's not clear whether enough has changed yet. I

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Speaker 7: think a lot of the underlying factors which caused that,

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Speaker 7: the problems of effectively capitalizing on the new kind of

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Speaker 7: new normal of ships coming around the Cape is still there. Unfortunately.

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Speaker 7: One thing which does increase I think the strategic relevance

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Speaker 7: of Southern Africa though, is for Mozambique. That is one

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Speaker 7: place where if liquid natural gas, which has also been blocked,

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Speaker 7: not just oil, but liquified natural gas from Qatar, which

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Speaker 7: India imports a huge amount, that has also been blocked

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Speaker 7: a bottled up and the price of that is sky

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Speaker 7: rocketed as well. So the strategic relevance of not just

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Speaker 7: the Cape route but the mozambiquon waters where there's those

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Speaker 7: huge offshore oil exees. Me gas discoveries also increases because

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Speaker 7: that would be one place you cannot blockade and the

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Speaker 7: whole world would be able to effectively visit that site

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Speaker 7: and fill up on LNG. Now, whether South Africa could

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Speaker 7: potentially benefit from that is one thing we should explore

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Speaker 7: as well, because that's always been a consideration. If Mozambique

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Speaker 7: takes off, South Africa would benefit from lots of people

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Speaker 7: being involved in the industry and manufacturing as well. That's

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Speaker 7: something I'd like to see work Keeping track.

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Speaker 2: Of Timothy Walker, thank you so much, really important insight,

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Speaker 2: senior researcher and maritime security at the Institute for Security Studies.

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Speaker 2: Twenty six minutes after six The Money Show, Meryl Picks,

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Speaker 2: portfolio manager of the Old Mutual Investment Group, Meryl good Evening.

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Speaker 2: Are there so many different scenarios to try and sort

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Speaker 2: of pick our way through with what's happening in the

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Speaker 2: release right now?

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Speaker 9: Good Evening still in Yes, and the scenarios have varying

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Speaker 9: investment implications. I think already in the short term we've seen.

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Speaker 1: A few things.

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Speaker 9: We've seen gold continue to strengthen, today, off the back

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Speaker 9: of safe haven investment, we've seen PGMs divert from that

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Speaker 9: trend and weakened slightly. Of course, PGMs have been part

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Speaker 9: of the precious metals right year of late, but a

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Speaker 9: huge demand driver remains car production and demand for cars.

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Speaker 9: So if there is growing uncertainty about global growth, you know,

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Speaker 9: you that reaction from the pgium complex is then not surprising.

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Speaker 9: But interestingly, the RAM hasn't weakened dramatically and the South

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Speaker 9: African market, the JC has actually held up surprisingly well

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Speaker 9: compared to previous risk of scenarios, and I think that

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Speaker 9: has a lot to do with how big gold has

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Speaker 9: become in the JAC at this time. So the various

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Speaker 9: scenarios all the way from you know, does this get

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Speaker 9: resolved within the next ten to twelve days to does

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Speaker 9: it take weeks, months, or even years, will have a

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Speaker 9: big impact on the energy complex, oil, natural gas, as

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Speaker 9: your guest has mentioned, does that substitute demand spill over

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Speaker 9: into the coal market, and then what does that mean

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Speaker 9: for global growth, for inflation, even for let's say the

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Speaker 9: tech industry and their artificial intelligence ambitions. Because everything that's

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Speaker 9: happening in the world right now is going to be

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Speaker 9: very energy hungry. The innovations that are happening.

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Speaker 2: One of the short term consequences for US higher oil prices,

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Speaker 2: higher fuel prices and therefore higher inflation.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely, so there would be some direct beneficiaries. We saw

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Speaker 9: sasol hits a high of above one fifty today. But

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Speaker 9: on the opposite end of this, if this does become protracted,

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Speaker 9: you know, whatever reprieve that South African consumers have had

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Speaker 9: from lower fuel prices would reverse and go the other

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Speaker 9: the way. For now, the rand has held its own,

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Speaker 9: as I've said, but the oil price is the other

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Speaker 9: part of that equation. Is What is positive I think

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Speaker 9: is that our expectations were for the Reserve Bank to

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Speaker 9: cut rates across the course of this year. So what

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Speaker 9: that does mean at the very least, there's not an

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Speaker 9: immediate need to hike rates.

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Speaker 10: It could mean that.

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Speaker 9: Those cuts need to go on pause until we see

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Speaker 9: how this pans out. But the fact that we were

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Speaker 9: on the cusp of actually cutting, you know, it means

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Speaker 9: that there's some breathing. What we will be watching now

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Speaker 9: is the continued severity of Iran's response if they continue,

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Speaker 9: if they start to be supplied with or resupplied with

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Speaker 9: arms from any of their allies like China or Russia.

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Speaker 9: Because the duration of the conflict is going to be

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Speaker 9: the biggest variable now on on on global growth. Sustained

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Speaker 9: uncertainty around the passage of oil to its destinations is

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Speaker 9: the key thing to watch.

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Speaker 2: And at the same time, US markets that did open

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Speaker 2: a full percentage point down, but I mean the nastics

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Speaker 2: already up.

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Speaker 6: Oh.

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Speaker 9: I think the pattern has been that investors by the dip,

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Speaker 9: and I think time will tell whether that is, you know,

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Speaker 9: the prudent thing to do. The other thing that happens

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Speaker 9: the longer that this conflict continues. It's being funded by

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Speaker 9: you know, US treasuries ultimately, so if it starts to

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Speaker 9: drag into a scenario of weeks and all months, there

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Speaker 9: will increasingly be questions asked about America's deficits.

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Speaker 1: This is going to make that worse.

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Speaker 9: We know that Trump increased the defense budget by fifty percent,

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Speaker 9: and clearly he's already on a path to use it.

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Speaker 9: So in the shorter term there might be very real impact.

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Speaker 9: In the longer term, the cost of capital in the

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Speaker 9: US could go up.

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Speaker 2: Meryl Peck, thank you so much, portfolio manager of Old

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Speaker 2: Mutual Investment.

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Speaker 6: Group just after six thirty, what Stephen.

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Speaker 1: On seven two seven oh two one seven oh two.

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Speaker 2: Well, some responses coming through about the situation in the

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Speaker 2: Middle East, Chad. Chad says, maybe the world should attack

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Speaker 2: America and Israel to see how they're like getting attacked.

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Speaker 6: They wonder fight, they should get it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that's going to help us, Ben

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Speaker 2: says Stephen, like Bob Dylan said, it's not dark yet,

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Speaker 2: but it's getting there.

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Speaker 6: In Fred, Oh, thanks very much. That's very cheerful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Lots to be concerned about, lots to watch very closely,

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Speaker 2: Lots to just sort of pay attention to as well.

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Speaker 2: Your foots please and seven two seven o two one

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Speaker 2: seven o two The.

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Speaker 3: Money Show with Steve and Kruder's Zion on ninety two

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Speaker 3: point seven and one six FM streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 3: Media Plus.

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Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five.

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Speaker 2: Six fourteen minutes now to seven the time. Well, oil prices,

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Speaker 2: gold prices up significantly since the start of the US

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Speaker 2: N Israeli bombing campaign on Iran and Iran's response markets

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Speaker 2: in a way reacting as you would expect, although US

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Speaker 2: markets dos him to be already at least one turning positive.

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Speaker 2: John Stopford is the head of Multi acid Income at

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Speaker 2: ninety one. John good evening, I do appreciate the time.

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Speaker 2: I suppose for a lot of investors, the two big

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Speaker 2: issues are probably oil and then uncertainty about what will happen.

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Speaker 2: They're obviously completely interrelated to each other.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, I think that's right. So oil is the sort

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Speaker 11: of main transmission mechanism and energy prices more generally. So

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Speaker 11: it also impacts natural gas where Katar is a big

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Speaker 11: exporter of LNG. But yes, of course that one of

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Speaker 11: the big unknowns is you know, how whether this escalates further,

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Speaker 11: how long it lasts and so on. So there is

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Speaker 11: an element of risk premium being built in as well.

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Speaker 11: So traditionally some of the more volatile parts of markets

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Speaker 11: have been hit a bit harder than others.

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Speaker 2: I mean, US markets opened a full sort of percentage

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Speaker 2: point down. They've recovered, even the JC not as bad

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Speaker 2: as it was when it started. I mean, I mean

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Speaker 2: we've seen a lot of buying the recently. Is it

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Speaker 2: possible that happens here and that, bizarrely, despite I mean

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Speaker 2: a very real threat to kind of energy as we

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Speaker 2: know it really or energy prices as we know them.

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Speaker 2: Markets could almost recover, perhaps almost too quickly.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, perhaps, I mean, I think, I mean, they're going

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Speaker 11: to be volatile for a while. I mean, there is

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Speaker 11: typically a pattern to these things, so people get obsessed,

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Speaker 11: I guess with geopolitics because it is ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 11: pretty significant, particularly for people affected directly. But financial markets,

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Speaker 11: I think have got quite used to an event happening,

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Speaker 11: it being priced in for a while and having a

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Speaker 11: market reaction broadly as one might expect. But then you know,

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Speaker 11: as the crisis blows over, as some resolution happens, markets

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Speaker 11: essentially rebound. So I think some people are trying to

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Speaker 11: get in there early. They're sort of taking a view

437
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 11: perhaps that Donald Trump has a sort of mo which

438
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 11: involves you know, going in big but actually not really

439
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 11: wanting to take too much political pain and happy to

440
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 11: declare victory quite quickly. So there's probably a bit of that.

441
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 11: I think there also looks as though there's an element

442
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 11: of sort of shortcovering going on, so things that were

443
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 11: doing less well have actually bounced a bit. So things

444
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 11: like bitcoin, for example, which has had a really torrid

445
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 11: time really probably since November. You know, that's one of

446
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 11: the strongest rallies today, a lot of tech stocks in America.

447
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 11: Palanteer was the leading stock when I last looked, you know,

448
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 11: Navidia doing quite well, et cetera. So there's a bit

449
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 11: of rotation as people are cutting maybe their lungs and shorts,

450
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 11: and so you're getting some moves that may may not

451
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 11: be appear that rational. They're just position squaring. And we

452
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 11: have seen some quite big moves in the bond market,

453
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 11: but then that was raning pretty hard last week, so

454
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 11: it's quite difficult to read a pattern other than you know,

455
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 11: as expected, oil is up, dollars up a bit, and

456
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 11: you know, equities are maybe mixed.

457
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 2: What's your sense of South African markets and all of

458
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: this oil obviously an issue for us, that's our real problem.

459
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 2: We produce gold, big part of our index. Now, are

460
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: we sort of relatively well placed?

461
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 11: Actually arguably yes, I mean, I guess you know that again,

462
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 11: there's been a fair amount of optimism for good reasons

463
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 11: about South Africa in recent time, So you know, I

464
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 11: think a bit of profit taking the rand is not

465
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 11: that surprising. It remains a more volatile than average currency,

466
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 11: and then I guess from that there's a bit of

467
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 11: a feedthrough to inflation with a somewhat weak rand, higher

468
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 11: oil prices, you know, so it's not surprising that bond

469
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 11: the bond market domestically here or in South Africa has

470
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 11: you know, done relatively poorly today. But yeah, you're right,

471
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 11: some sort of resource shares potentially do quite well. It

472
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 11: is off the beaten track, I guess, although you know,

473
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 11: it may not be the first place people look to

474
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 11: add risk, but I think if it people will at

475
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 11: some point we'll be looking for bargains. And we haven't

476
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 11: really seen enough moves I think to suggest that that's

477
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 11: going to happen quickly. And we don't, as I say,

478
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 11: know quite how long this is going to last. My

479
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 11: guess is you might have waves it. I think Trump

480
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 11: said four weeks, It might be less than that. My

481
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 11: guess is it probably isn't going to be a lot

482
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 11: longer than that. And yeah, there will be people looking

483
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 11: to buy the dip.

484
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 2: So the length of time is such a big part

485
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: because I would imagine if this goes on for a month,

486
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: you know, there's a scenario in which the straight up

487
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 2: of moss blocked oil prices are high for a sustained

488
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: period of time, we heard earlier that that could mean,

489
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 2: for example, Saudi Arabia and other producers of oil there

490
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 2: run out of storage space, they have to shut down

491
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: their refineries. That's one scenario, and I would imagine markets

492
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: from sort of almost week to week will kind of

493
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: I mean you use the word volatility, that's probably the

494
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: correct word. On the other hand, there could be a

495
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: sense of optimism that this is all going to change

496
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: very quickly.

497
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 11: Yes, yeah, I mean I think on the oil price,

498
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 11: You're right. The longer this goes on, you know, the more.

499
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: We seem to have lost John Stopford there unfortunately the

500
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: head of multi acid income at ninety one, John, Sorry

501
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 2: about that. Does happen sometimes, but yeah, Stuck, I'm afraid

502
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: in the ether there. But I think I think we

503
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: got a lot from that interview, John STOPPERD.

504
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 6: Thank you. Eight minutes an out to seven.

505
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 12: The Money Show with Stephen Freutez is brought to you

506
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 12: by APPS Corporate and Investment Backing. Refined performance is a

507
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 12: measure of discipline. That's how we're invested.

508
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 13: In your story.

509
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 6: Apps as are rated at their BESPA.

510
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: Six minutes now to seven the time, Well, let's sort

511
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: of catch up on some Corporate News Today and RCL

512
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: food saying the crisis in our sugar industry having a

513
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: big impact on them. Their headline earnings down for share

514
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: by over twenty two percent and six months to the

515
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: end of December. Paul Crookshank is the CEO at RCL Foods.

516
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: Paul good evening, you produce sugar. We've seen a huge

517
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: search and sug get imports into the country. What's that

518
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: doing to your operations?

519
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 14: Eving Stehen and Eving to the listeners, Yeah, I had

520
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 14: a major impact on our sugar operation. We've seen close

521
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 14: one hundred and seventy thousand tons of deep sea imports

522
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 14: coming to South Africa and it's had a significant impact

523
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 14: on the industry. And essentially what happens is that displaces

524
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 14: local market sells which then get exported at a much

525
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 14: lower international pruce.

526
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 8: So it's have a huge impact.

527
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 14: And just to convert the one hundred and seventy thousand

528
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 14: tons into rand it's one and a half billion ruand

529
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 14: of lost revenue across the whole industry. So yeah, it

530
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 14: had a significant impact. Other than that impact on our

531
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 14: sugar business, our sugar business continues to actually perform well

532
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 14: operationally but you can't hide away from those significant numbers.

533
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: I mean obviously, but I mean I presume this wouldn't

534
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 2: happen if those exporters didn't produce sugar for a lower

535
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: price than we do. Why what's happening in our markets

536
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: or in our economy that's making our sugar more expensive

537
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: than the sugar that's important.

538
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 8: Stevens. I wish it was that simple.

539
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 14: But essentially, international sugar is traded at export parity. There's

540
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 14: a surface of sugar worldwide, and it's largely to do

541
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 14: with economies of scale, and you need to put a

542
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 14: certain footprint down from our agricultural and operational perspective at

543
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 14: these mills.

544
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 8: And then what.

545
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 14: Countries do is their surface that they have the export

546
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 14: or fail a dump onto the open market. And that

547
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 14: is the main reason that almost all countries protect their

548
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 14: sugar industries from this, to make sure that the industries

549
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 14: have some protection.

550
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 6: Would we be.

551
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,719
Speaker 8: As efficient as someone like Brazil?

552
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 12: Low?

553
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 14: But can we compete with other international players in our industry?

554
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 8: Definitely?

555
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: Is you want to change the way the sugar import

556
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: duty is managed so that there is one I realized

557
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: it seems to not have been changed for a while.

558
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: And the situation is sort of changed around you and

559
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: the industry. What kind of system do you think would

560
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: be fair to you as a sugar producer, and I

561
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: suppose to customers who want cheaper sugar and not everyone

562
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: in the food industry does want to protect our industry,

563
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: they want cheaper sugar in some cases.

564
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 14: Yeah, So if we just go back to the master

565
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 14: planet was found a few years ago, there were agreements

566
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 14: in place between both our customers and the supplies and

567
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 14: those agreements were that they wouldn't be imported sugar into

568
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 14: South Africa and there wouldn't be only inflation related pricing

569
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 14: increases to the market, and that was a way of

570
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 14: call it appeasing or finding a middle ground for everybody.

571
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 8: We certainly haven't had inflation.

572
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 14: We have had inflation related price increases until the last

573
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 14: eighteen months and we haven't had one since then, mainly

574
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 14: because the imported cost was below out our selling prices.

575
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 8: So we thought we.

576
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 14: Had a middle ground and obviously that hasn't transpired. We

577
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 14: do understand what the other companies want or our customers

578
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 14: actually want, mainly in the industrial sector, but there needs

579
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 14: to be a balance here. So going back to what

580
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 14: would make sense at a dollar base reference price. That

581
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 14: price has not moved since the inception in twenty nineteen,

582
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 14: so it hasn't moved with inflation. What we have had

583
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 14: to some extent is the strength of another rand impact

584
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 14: in it. But that's a small, smaller part of the issue.

585
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 14: So we need a mechanism where we're not uncomfortable with

586
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 14: a dollar based reference price, but we need that price

587
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 14: to move with some sort of inflation to keep a relativity.

588
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 14: And I do agree with keeping the industry honest, I

589
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 14: don't have a problem with that at all.

590
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 2: You and just just to sort of move away from sugar.

591
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: You do other things too, obviously at RCL Foods, but

592
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: you have to stop production at your drive at food

593
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: unit in March last year. You say it'll come back

594
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: online fairly soon.

595
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 6: What went wrong?

596
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 14: So, yeah, unfortunately, Stephen, we had a sol madl at

597
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 14: our plant, so we need to stop that plant to

598
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 14: take it down for deep cleaning. The plant has come

599
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 14: back up in the last few days, and yeah, it

600
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 14: was an unfortunate thing. Salmon at a is a common

601
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 14: thing in food production, but what is required is that

602
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 14: no so mae at a product in each shape or

603
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 14: form gets into the trade into the market. We are

604
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 14: confident that our controls have managed to contain it within

605
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 14: our plant and no batches left into the trade, and

606
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 14: we're hoping to get that plant back up and running

607
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 14: to full capacity soon and refall the pipeline that's required

608
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 14: for our pet free brand.

609
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: I mean, it must have hurt your bottom line somewhere

610
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: along the line.

611
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 14: Yeah, well in the second six months. It was right

612
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 14: at the end of the first six months. So we'll

613
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 14: feed it now in this period, and we've got a

614
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 14: number of mitigation plans in place to support our brands,

615
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 14: get them back on shelf and get them front of

616
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:51,919
Speaker 14: mind of our consumers.

617
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: Poor thanks so much, really appreciate the time the CEO

618
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: at r CL Foods. Just a reminder of the sort

619
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: of difficulties of managing sugar at the moment. Heard from

620
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: the Sugar Association from some of the producers there in

621
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 2: the past about this and again has always with trade,

622
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 2: so many different things to balance. Yes, you want to

623
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: protect our sugar industry. I think we need to have

624
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: a sugar industry and employ as many people at the

625
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: same time. How expensive do you want sugar to be?

626
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: I mean you kind of want the cheaper price. And

627
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: I suppose the issue then becomes whether there is dumping

628
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: people just sort of dropping it on our market at

629
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: less than the cost of production or not. And that's

630
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: where things start to get a little stickier. Don't forget.

631
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: At seven point thirty this evening, we will be speaking

632
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to the conversation speaking about how to

633
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 2: make a living out of all things vinyl, by which

634
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 2: I'm talking about LP's records. Do you remember them. We'll

635
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: be talking about that from seven thirty. Good evening, just

636
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: gone seven o'clock on The Money Show.

637
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

638
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: o two. Let's walk little.

639
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Crutius has brought to you

640
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 2: by ABS A Corporate and Investment banking. Refined performance is

641
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: a measure of zipline. That's how we're invested in your story.

642
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: Absence a registered FSB. Eight minutes after seven the time

643
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: plenty to come. In the next little while, we'll speak

644
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: to him. Put in at Lisa, the CEO of Advest.

645
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: They've had a huge increase in their testing, inspectional compliance services.

646
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what that tells us about how our

647
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: society is changing what companies are doing. Maybe it's just

648
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: a feature of sort of economic growth. Looking forward to

649
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: finding out with her in just a couple of moments here,

650
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: and man our book reviewer. He's been looking at a

651
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: book it is so utterly apt for the situation in

652
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 2: which we find ourselves today, Principles for dealing with the

653
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 2: changing world order. It's by the investor Ray Dalio, and

654
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: someone who's really uniquely placed to offer some insights on that.

655
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: And I was thinking about this a little bit today.

656
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I am sure no matter of what generation

657
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: you are streaming is now sort of streaming your music

658
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 2: is sort of so easy and almost abiqritis and rarely

659
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: quite cheap frankly for what you get. That is kind

660
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: of impossible not to listen to music in that way.

661
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 2: It's not the best way, not the only way to

662
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 2: listen to music, as I understand it. And this takes

663
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 2: you to a very complicated thing called a sample rate,

664
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 2: which my technical producer Peter understands far better than I.

665
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: A CD would be the best way to listen to

666
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 2: music technically, then you would probably go to an even

667
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 2: in some cases a very high quality LP, and then

668
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: maybe streaming at some point along the line, I would

669
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 2: probably have to find an old tape deck just to

670
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 2: check what it would fit in all of those things,

671
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: just because. But we'll talk about how you make a

672
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 2: career a living out of dealing in vinyl. We'll speak

673
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: to Brett Dugmore, the CEO of SAMP Records and owner

674
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: of Mister Vinyl after seven point thirty this evening The

675
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: Lonely Show.

676
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 3: With Stephen Krugers Live on ninety two point seven and

677
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 3: one six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

678
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

679
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: One of those sort of statements put out over the

680
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 2: week ken and then overtaken by other events. The Chief

681
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: Investment Officer at the Public Investment Corporation, Cabello Rocoso resigning,

682
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: well not resigning, parting ways amicably was the way it

683
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 2: was put in the statement. With the PIIC, he had

684
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 2: been suspended. He had been in the position since twenty

685
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 2: twenty two year suspended. I think it was late last year,

686
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 2: it seemed, And there's very little information about this, but

687
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: there were some questions about an out of court agreement

688
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: that he reached on behalf of the PIC with AO Technologies.

689
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: This is doctor Ikbell Survey's company, and you'll remember the

690
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 2: PIIC invested four point three billion Rand in that company.

691
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 2: In the end, the out of court settlement was just

692
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: six hundred and nineteen million Rand, and there are all sort

693
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: of questions about that. And the moment I say that

694
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: I know somewhere Ickball Survey, sorry, doctor Survey, is telling

695
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: his lawyers to write me one of those letters to

696
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: which we reply and then we get no reply in returns,

697
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: so I sort of look forward to receiving it. At

698
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: the point I do have to make, though, and this

699
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: is about the PRC, not so much aotechnologies, is that

700
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: the PIC has not explained what happened. Now, if I

701
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: were a government worker, if I were a union representing

702
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 2: a government worker, and my pension was tied up in

703
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: the public Investment Corporation, and the Public Investment Corporation is

704
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 2: frankly big enough to affect us, all, I would want

705
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 2: to know more. We keep coming back to issues at

706
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: the PC, particularly in the unlisted investment space. Their chief

707
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: investment officer now leaves through some sort of agreement amicably,

708
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 2: we're told, and we don't know why. I think we

709
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 2: deserve to know more Frankly twelve after seven.

710
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephens on seven O two seven.

711
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 2: O two Advest reporting today it was able to increase

712
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 2: its trading profit by seven percent on an increase in

713
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: revenue of four percent. Strong demand for hygiene and hospitality services,

714
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: strong numbers of inbound tourists too. And for me, Medizer

715
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 2: is the CEO at Advist and for me, good evening.

716
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: I appreciate you taking the time. I know it's after

717
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 2: seven o'clock and I'm sure you've been on the go,

718
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: are doing investor causes things all day, so I do

719
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: appreciate it. These are very strong numbers. How much demand

720
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,959
Speaker 2: are you seeing for your hygiene services at the moment?

721
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: What's driving that so strongly?

722
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 10: And good evening, Stephen, And thank you very much for

723
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 10: the opportunity. It's been along day, but it's good. So yeah,

724
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 10: you're absolutely right. We've seen strong growth coming out of

725
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 10: our hygiene businesses and this is globally. And I must

726
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 10: say Stephen that our hygiene businesses, all of them have

727
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 10: performed wow. Whether in South Africa or in the UK

728
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 10: or in Australia, all of them have really performed well.

729
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 10: And in fact in the results I did provide numbers

730
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 10: to say we saw a twenty percent increase collectively at

731
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 10: a profit level from our hygiene businesses, and it's driven

732
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 10: by a couple of things. So we've got structural growth

733
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 10: in the hygiene market. Awareness around hygiene, awareness around wildness

734
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 10: is something that is growing. It's gotten even worse post COVID,

735
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 10: and so every single year we do see higher demand

736
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 10: in that space. And then the other driver is that

737
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 10: last year we made an acquisition of a company called

738
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 10: Citron that had a footprint in the UK, Canada and

739
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 10: the US. The UK footprint was integrated into our existing

740
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 10: business called PHS and the UK, and then we had

741
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 10: a contribution, which is obviously new earnings coming out of

742
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 10: that North America piece. So in that whole day we

743
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 10: really did see a very very strong performance, and our

744
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 10: hygiene businesses now collectively make up more than fifty five

745
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 10: percent of earnings and services international.

746
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean you're testing inspection compliance services have doubled,

747
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: so the industry is getting bigger, But I mean for me,

748
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 2: it also sounds like maybe you're taking market share.

749
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think you're correct. As we build scale, we

750
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 10: then have a bigger platform from which to grow and

751
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 10: once you have scale, you have got synergies that you're

752
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 10: able to extract. You've got economies of scale that enable

753
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 10: you from a pricing perspective, and so you're absolutely correct

754
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 10: there have been market share gains in that space and

755
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 10: the testing, inspection and compliance space. We're really excited about.

756
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,439
Speaker 10: It's new for us. We entered it about two years ago.

757
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 10: We made an acquisition of a company called Wadcheck that

758
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 10: does lubricant testing and reliability testing, and now we've added Aquatical,

759
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 10: which is water testing business. So very excited to also

760
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 10: be in the space in South Africa, which is growing

761
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 10: and has created a massive opportunity set for us for

762
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 10: future growth.

763
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: In your SINS release, you said you might benefit from

764
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 2: contracts relating to the privatization of services at our ports.

765
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 2: What kind of involvement are you looking forward to there?

766
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 2: They're big changes there obviously.

767
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, and so maybe just as a start to say that,

768
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 10: really excited about the progress that is being made from

769
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 10: May rail reform perspective. Obviously, we've got eleven rail operators

770
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 10: that have been appointed last year. We know some of

771
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 10: those operators, we know their capability, we know they've got

772
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 10: capital to bring on what is required in terms of locomotives, etc.

773
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 10: And so the private sector participation is going to be

774
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 10: great from a logistics perspective. In terms of our own

775
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 10: terminal operations, we're in the process of renewing our leases

776
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 10: mainly on the bulk grain and the bulk liquid side,

777
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 10: and we're nearing kind of negotiation into term and once

778
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 10: we're done with those, we really are going to be

779
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 10: looking at the polling additional capital for growth so that

780
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 10: we can expand our capacity to handle the various products

781
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 10: that we'll be able to handle. That is our confidence

782
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 10: right in how we expect the logistics sector, rail and

783
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 10: our supply chain of the country to improve over the

784
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 10: next two to three years.

785
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: I mean, you're exposed to why a sort of diverse

786
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 2: range of activity in our economy overall, you actually seem

787
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: pretty optimistic.

788
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 5: We do.

789
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 10: And I mean I said earlier on a number of

790
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 10: calls that I think that relative to the rest of

791
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 10: the world, South Africa has a number of green shoots

792
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 10: and I think that structurally the South African economy is

793
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 10: going to support business better are going forward. I mean,

794
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 10: inflation is down, interest.

795
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 6: Rates are down.

796
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 10: That's great for a consumer from a disposable income perspective

797
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 10: in terms of capital flows into the country. Our GDP

798
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 10: growth forecasts for twenty twenty six has been revised up.

799
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 10: Our sovereign rating has been revised up. We're off the

800
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 10: fact of gray list. That's all green in terms of

801
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 10: capital inflow. And I've touched on the structural reform progress

802
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 10: from a rail perspective, and power is equally there. ESCAM

803
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 10: was profitable last year, they've got cash and we can

804
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 10: see preventative maintenance coming through that ESCOM piece. So that's

805
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 10: great and I really think that there's a lot for

806
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 10: us to ride on as South African companies the in

807
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 10: the coming months and years.

808
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 2: And for me, Klolani has whatsapped us on seven two seven,

809
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: two one seven or two kindly reminding me to ask

810
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: you about the Bidvest Bank sale. You want a two

811
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 2: point eight billion rand for it from Nigeria's Access bank

812
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 2: that fell through.

813
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 6: What do you go? What are you planning on doing? Now?

814
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 10: We've restarted the process already, so we've moved quite quickly.

815
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 10: It's interesting that when we release the SINS announcement around

816
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 10: a couple of weeks ago, the response that we got

817
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 10: was quite significant. So they're asked in a lot of

818
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 10: players that are interested in the bank. We are engaging

819
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 10: all these players. We started the process, and earlier this

820
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 10: morning I did indicate that we really aim to finalize

821
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 10: the sale, have cash in the bank latest by the

822
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 10: end of this calendar year. So we're really bullish in

823
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 10: terms of what we're going to do. We're going to

824
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 10: take time, lessons learned from the cell, from the first process,

825
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 10: and really try and accept that process.

826
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 2: I mean, you want to two point eight billion that's

827
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 2: fallen through, You're unlikely to get that with another buyer.

828
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 10: Now, well, we'll have to wait and see. I'm sure

829
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 10: I've got buyers on the line listening, so I've put

830
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 10: my proper face on. We'll have to wait and see.

831
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 10: We're going to run a competitive process. This value in

832
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 10: the bank. We've got a strong balance sheet, we've got

833
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 10: a strong deposit book, we've got a strong base of clients.

834
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 10: And yeah, we're going to We're going to go out

835
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 10: there and get the best clents ef we can for.

836
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: Me, Medisa, thank you so much. Ready to appreciate the time.

837
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 2: The CEO at Bodvis nineteen after seven.

838
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 1: The Money Show Business books.

839
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 2: Well, the book that we're looking at tonight is by

840
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 2: Ray Dallyio. It's called Principles with dealing with the Changing

841
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: World Order. I couldn't think of a more timely day

842
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: on which to speak about that. Ian Man is your

843
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 2: regular book review and MDA Gateways Business Consultants, and he

844
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: joins a now yan good evening. I mean, yeah, an

845
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: astonishing sort of moment to do this. I need to

846
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,439
Speaker 2: start by saying, this book written in twenty twenty one, Yes,

847
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 2: a lot changed since then. Do the principles hold? That's

848
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 2: the point He's not. They're not principles for now. What

849
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 2: he's managed to do, and he's done extraordinarily well. And

850
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: why he did this exercise in the first place, he's

851
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 2: been running a hedge fund, probably the biggest hedge fund

852
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: on the planet. Because of that, it's always been terribly

853
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 2: important that he understands global movements. What he's done of

854
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: late has been trying to understand better and better. And

855
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 2: he came to the conclusion that they are that from

856
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 2: his work, that they are cycles. What he got what

857
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 2: he started doing was he looked at all he is

858
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 2: a massive team. So he's got his team to do

859
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 2: a whole lot of research. He then passed all his

860
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 2: research onto experts. Then he would come back to the team, revise,

861
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 2: send it back to experts. But he's really using the best,

862
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 2: the best.

863
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 13: On the planet. I mean that he's available to him

864
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 13: when you're a billionaire and when you've got one hundred

865
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 13: and thirty six billion under management. Anyway, So what he

866
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 13: came up with he came to the conclusion that there

867
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 13: are cycles. And by looking at the rise and fall

868
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 13: of of empires over one hundred hundreds of years, the

869
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 13: ones he's focused on obviously only about five hundred years old,

870
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 13: but goes back with Chinese as well. He con said

871
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 13: that there are cycles that repeat themselves, and why they

872
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 13: repeat themselves is not because the world, because the world's

873
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 13: made up of human beings, and human beings have the

874
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 13: same attitudes. And so what happens is that he identified

875
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 13: big cycles and I think the world I can share

876
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 13: with you know, it's the big cycles. And then in

877
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 13: his book, which is very detailed, he takes once he's

878
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 13: gone through the big cycles, he goes and says, let's

879
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 13: have a look at what supports these cycles. And he

880
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 13: gets into really granular information which which proves that the

881
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 13: which supports the notion that he has but goes something

882
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 13: like this. He studied the the ones that are most

883
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 13: important for us are the British, the Dutch, the British,

884
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 13: and the Americans. All of those are the world's reserve

885
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 13: were the world's reserve currencies. And by the way, the

886
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 13: America will remain the world's reserve currency for a good

887
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 13: twenty years after they stopped being the world's greatest and

888
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 13: wealthiest country, only because in the same way as language,

889
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 13: if we used to speak to each other in English,

890
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 13: unlikely to change to another language correctly.

891
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 6: So that's going to be around for a while.

892
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 13: The big cycles are driven by the success and failures

893
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 13: of major countries throughout the ages and needs. He proves

894
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 13: that one of the things that why this is going

895
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 13: to work, these big cycles work is because the countries

896
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 13: rise and then they get to a stage where, because

897
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 13: they're human, they start imploding internally and because structures make

898
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 13: them implode internally. For example, if you look at the

899
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 13: rise of a power, they grow strong when they develop

900
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 13: productive enemies. They have strong education, they have good systems,

901
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 13: they have they have innovation, and they have military power.

902
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 13: Military power is always important because change has happened a

903
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 13: lot around wars and military power, but not exclusively. Once

904
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 13: they get to once they've been doing this for a

905
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 13: while there and they get to their peak, the peak

906
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 13: goes down only because the the you dominate world trade

907
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 13: and finance and and and and and geographies and geopolitics.

908
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 13: But you and your currency becomes the world currency. But

909
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 13: what happens internally is that you extend yourself far too far,

910
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 13: and then what happens is success reads complacency. The complacency

911
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 13: allows you to have debts depth that rises, your productivity

912
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,399
Speaker 13: slows because you don't have to work that hard. We're

913
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 13: all wealthy now, and inequality, but internally, and it's internal

914
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 13: is one of the major forces change, whether its internal

915
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 13: revolutions or wars, the things change. But when you have

916
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 13: countries that become rich and flabby, they tend not to

917
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 13: work as hard, and then you have the countries taking

918
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 13: over them later prepared to work much hard.

919
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 2: So just to sort of look at at at at

920
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 2: at I mean, you could go back to the Romans,

921
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 2: plenty of examples from Chinese history, and then you would

922
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: also sort of look at at how things have changed

923
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: even in our time. I mean America seems to be

924
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 2: in the middle of that. You know, listen, rich and flabby.

925
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 13: If indeed, and what tends happened when you if you

926
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 13: just look at the Dutch. Dutch were incredibly innovative, they're

927
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 13: good systems, everything was working really, really well. But then

928
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 13: they invented they invented something which is game changing, and

929
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 13: that was the ship. Because that they dominated world trade.

930
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 13: What happened afterwards, the country that took over from them

931
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 13: took over ship building and they did it cheaper. They

932
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 13: got British people to build the ships, which the Dutch

933
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 13: should developed the technology for. And now once you've done

934
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 13: all that stuff, we can reproduce. And that's what's happening

935
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 13: all over the world. So that cycle repeats itself. And

936
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 13: I think that the idea of cycles repeating themselves is

937
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:18,399
Speaker 13: because humans human beings remain the same forever. And one

938
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 13: example is if you've got great wealth, you will always

939
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 13: ensure that the politics of your country favors your great

940
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 13: great wealth to continue. That isn't something new, It's happened

941
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 13: throughout human history. So you have these cycles repeating themselves

942
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 13: again and again. What he does do very nicely is

943
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 13: he identifies what are the criteria for determining wealth and power.

944
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 13: And I think that if we look firstly internally, you

945
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 13: can see what are the issues that we have to

946
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 13: worry about and why we are we The science doesn't

947
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 13: have to do it doesn't have to make you a

948
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 13: non important lead. Holland was that the Dutch were very

949
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 13: small and they managed to do it. The key is

950
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 13: to be able to do it is this.

951
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 6: You have to have well educated people.

952
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 13: You have to have people operate civilly towards each other

953
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 13: so that there's no You need to see that they

954
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 13: come up with innovations, and then once they've got innovations,

955
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 13: they can find the capital in the system which you

956
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 13: couldn't they can borrow against it actually put the innovations

957
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 13: to an intermarket, and that they're allowed to control what

958
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 13: happens to money once they stopped making it.

959
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 2: So that's very similar to the y nations fail and

960
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,399
Speaker 2: the narrow corridor hypothesis of development, where it is where

961
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 2: those things come through. Yeah, I have to ask and

962
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 2: I don't want to put a spinner in the works.

963
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: But all of this was written so twenty twenty one,

964
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 2: I think it came out and I said, it's very timely.

965
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: Now does AI change anything? And I mean as as

966
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: I hear you talk, I'm thinking, well, arguably, you know,

967
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 2: the first sort of AI most of us heard of

968
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 2: was chat Gibt, which was American, but deep Seak was

969
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 2: Chinese for kind of you know, attend for the price success.

970
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:58,399
Speaker 13: Yeah, I think that. I think that AI is going

971
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 13: to be as a contributor. Yeah, AI is just and

972
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 13: he talks about AI is something which is going to

973
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 13: help us a great deal. We're going to be thinking

974
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 13: in ways we've never ever thought before, with capacities we've

975
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 13: never thought before. But even if, as you say, if

976
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,280
Speaker 13: if we've come up with something and sorry, if America

977
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 13: has come up with something really incredible, the Chinese are

978
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 13: going to pick up on it and they the Chinese

979
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 13: have a very strong chance of becoming the next dominant power.

980
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 13: And there's a lot of indications that the great powers

981
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 13: do rise and then they decline, and simply the nature

982
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 13: of the world and there's a lot of things how

983
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 13: long you can extend the the the your rise for

984
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 13: and your your dominance for is based on the quality

985
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 13: of education, which we're seeing better in better in the

986
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 13: United States. Sorry in chinavent is in the United States,

987
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 13: Harvard has dropped, i think to number four, with the

988
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 13: one and two being Chinese. So we're seeing those sort

989
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 13: of changes, and it is a good reason to believe

990
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 13: that the we must take China very seriously as a

991
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 13: as a contender to being the next dominant the dominant power.

992
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 6: It's fascinating to think about. Thank you so much.

993
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 2: Ian Man is our regular book reviewer, the MD at

994
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: Gateways Business Consultants. The book is called Principles for Dealing

995
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 2: with the Changing World Orders by Ray Dalio. If you

996
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: don't know, Ray Dalio is as in reminds us a

997
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 2: legendary invest but certainly something worth looking at if you

998
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 2: want to understand some of the big transitions, some of

999
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 2: the big changes, and why there's always something changing no

1000
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 2: matter what. Twenty eight minutes now after.

1001
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 1: Seven counting up the song show.

1002
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 6: Aubrey, good evening.

1003
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 2: I know you have one of my guests sitting next

1004
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 2: to you, but I'd appreciate it if you don't try

1005
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 2: and steal them in front of me tonight.

1006
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 15: I mean outside, maybe maybe we have a conversation outside

1007
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 15: the studio.

1008
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 2: That would be great because that'll be like what four

1009
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: guests in a row I quite like Rutunda back at

1010
00:55:59,120 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 2: some point.

1011
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 6: If that absolutely, you know that these are these are

1012
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 6: great guests, you.

1013
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 15: Should take money show, you should take that as a compliment.

1014
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 6: I'm looking at my producers. It's all abut absolutely. Let

1015
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 6: me tell you what's on the show tonight.

1016
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 15: Doctor Chris Hendrix, chief medical officer at Decentra Health and

1017
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 15: chief Community Impact Officer at A Rare Cause, talks of

1018
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 15: rare diseases. This evening, we can be talking about just

1019
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 15: generally what are rare diseases and what are we doing

1020
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 15: about it? In the second intelligence can sometimes feel like

1021
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 15: a rare disease. Alfa Ramusha and I Witness your News

1022
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 15: reporter joins me in the first half of the second

1023
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 15: hour of the show, and we're talking about.

1024
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 6: Yet another building that has collapsed in what's going on right?

1025
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 15: And then straight after that we're going to be speaking

1026
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,879
Speaker 15: to Baffana palan political analyst. He's going to be talking

1027
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 15: about the DA's federal chair race, right, and we're going

1028
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 15: to be talking about that, and I believe there's a

1029
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 15: number of people that have put up their high hands

1030
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,879
Speaker 15: for that. Brook Spector joins us in the third hour

1031
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 15: of the show. Us veteran, the diplomat, political analyst and

1032
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 15: associate editor at Daily Maverick talk to us about the

1033
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 15: US Israeli versus Iran war that has begun. Skinny story

1034
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,359
Speaker 15: that for me, and then of course the final hour

1035
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 15: of the show is an open line.

1036
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 2: All right, Aubrey, thank you very much, indeed, and feel

1037
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 2: free to shake hands in front of me. You can

1038
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 2: leave together if you must. But honestly, the stealing of

1039
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:30,919
Speaker 2: guests on the show, Aubrey, shocking, shocking, shocking. We'll talk

1040
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 2: how Vinyl survived and CDs didn't in just a moment,

1041
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 2: How I make my money beyond the algorithm, how mister

1042
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 2: Vinyl is keeping physical music culture alive. Looking forward to

1043
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 2: that just gone seven thirty time for the later Stywitness News.

1044
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: Our Money show How I Make My Money.

1045
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 2: Twenty one minutes now too. There's so many different ways

1046
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 2: to make money that I often find the most interesting

1047
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 2: journeys are the people who've been able to take a

1048
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 2: love for something from a quite a young age and

1049
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,120
Speaker 2: then are able to turn that into a living. And

1050
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 2: I think it can also take real genius to take

1051
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 2: something that's sort of all that many people kind of ignore,

1052
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 2: don't see as something serious and yet are able to

1053
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 2: take advantage of what is a big market for it.

1054
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 2: And I'm talking about selling vinyl records, LPs those things

1055
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 2: for a living. The person I'm talking about is Brett

1056
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 2: Doug Moore. He is the owner of Mister Vinyl and

1057
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 2: Samp Records. Brett, good evening, It's great to talk to you.

1058
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for speaking to us tonight.

1059
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 4: Good evening to you, Stephen. Then good evenings to listeners.

1060
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 4: It's lovely to be here.

1061
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 6: I presume.

1062
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just a presumption on my part that

1063
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 2: you are quite interested in music from a very young age.

1064
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely, Stephen. I think it's always been my passion.

1065
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 4: It was my lifeline when I was a kid. Like

1066
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 4: so many others around South Africa, I grew up with

1067
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 4: my parents listening to vinyl records and I would later

1068
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 4: as a teenager play in bands and get involved in

1069
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 4: writing about music. And it was always an escape for

1070
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 4: me and always something that I really wanted to work

1071
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 4: hard in. I was very lucky that I've managed to

1072
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 4: pursue music throughout my life. I did go to university

1073
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 4: to go and study a BA in politics, philosophy and economics,

1074
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 4: but I was lucky at the same time that I

1075
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 4: could sort of step away from that after having finished

1076
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 4: it and pursue music. The vinyl record thing is a

1077
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 4: very very interesting one and it started off in South

1078
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 4: Africa around twenty twelve. The rest of the world, the

1079
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 4: vinyl revival started around two thousand and nine towards twenty ten,

1080
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 4: but pretty much around twenty twelve people started getting interested

1081
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 4: in vinyl records again, which was a real surprise to

1082
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 4: a lot of us. So there are a couple of

1083
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,479
Speaker 4: reasons as to why it sort of started to take off.

1084
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 4: One was that a whole generation, that being the younger

1085
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 4: generation now, was really surprised to hear just how good

1086
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 4: vinyl records sound. You know, we've all heard our parents

1087
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 4: talk about how great it is to listen to an

1088
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 4: old record and how the quality just seems and feels different.

1089
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 4: But there is some truth in that, and there is

1090
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 4: some truth in the whole concept of listening to an

1091
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 4: analogue recording. So we saw that start to sort of

1092
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 4: take off. And the other thing is people love collecting things.

1093
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 4: If you like something and you want to give it

1094
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 4: a space in your world, so you know, you want

1095
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 4: to have a vinyl record that you can put on

1096
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 4: your shelf and you can see it, and you can

1097
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 4: think of the artist, and you can really feel a

1098
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 4: lot closer to the artist by having a big twelve

1099
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 4: inch by twelve inch effectively art cover which you can

1100
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 4: look at and give a space in your world too.

1101
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 4: So those were the big driving forces. But I'm seeing

1102
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 4: a really exciting one at the moment, Steven, which I

1103
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 4: wanted to tell you about.

1104
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:33,439
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to come to that in a moment.

1105
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 2: I just want to talk a little bit about the

1106
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 2: playing off a record. So when I go home tonight,

1107
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 2: I'll listen to Aubrey and if I feel I need to,

1108
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: I will, you know, look at something on my streaming

1109
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 2: service on my phone. Is really easy and it's simple.

1110
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 2: But I remember when I first got an LP and

1111
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 2: in fact, I was listening to music right at the

1112
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 2: end of the LP era, so I was just sort

1113
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 2: of getting interested in music then. And it was a

1114
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 2: pink record called That's Now, That's what I call music.

1115
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 2: Six started off with the deurand Aurin I think had

1116
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: Grace Jogs on it, and there was something about getting

1117
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,959
Speaker 2: home with this thing, telling my brothers not to jump

1118
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 2: on the wooden floor of the lounge, which obviously they

1119
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 2: did putting the record onto the record player, and then

1120
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 2: I was absolutely petrified of this part, putting the needle

1121
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 2: on in a way quite clumsy then and now and

1122
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 2: not wanting to damage the record, damage my parents needle.

1123
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 2: And then when you got the volume out, when you

1124
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: got the music out, there was a kind of magic

1125
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 2: there that I just don't feel comes from anything to

1126
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 2: do with my phone.

1127
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 4: You're you're exactly spot on. I mean, the big thing is, Look,

1128
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 4: you cannot beat the convenience of owning and having access

1129
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 4: to a streaming service, But nobody ever remembers what the

1130
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 4: first song they ever streamed was, or what the first

1131
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 4: song they ever downloaded was. You can't connect with the

1132
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 4: album cover on your phone. It's too small and it's

1133
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 4: a digital file, and you tend to drown in us

1134
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 4: as well. There's just too much going on. It's just

1135
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 4: this insanity of it all. Whereas everybody can remember the

1136
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 4: first vinyl record they listen to, and as you've just described,

1137
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 4: there are some really really great ones made that now

1138
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 4: that now compilation, especially being pressed on Pink Final. What

1139
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 4: you're also talking about there is the ritual of it all,

1140
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,919
Speaker 4: or what the big buzzword would be for today would

1141
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 4: be mindfulness. Right, this has always been a mindful pastime

1142
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 4: and way to listen to music. You really have to

1143
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 4: think about what you're going to play. You can't skip

1144
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 4: between songs easily. You have to lift up the stylus

1145
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 4: and be careful about it. You have to take good

1146
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 4: care of your records and make sure that they're clean.

1147
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 4: All of these kinds of processes create a little bit

1148
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 4: of a barrier where it's not so simple. It just

1149
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 4: doesn't it doesn't disappear to the background of your mind,

1150
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 4: and as a result, this mindful experience starts to become

1151
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 4: really really rewarding. And as a result that is that

1152
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 4: has been a big driver for this.

1153
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 2: So so the equipment that your customers are listening to

1154
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 2: this on. And I can see two ways of doing this.

1155
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 2: So one is and I can be sort of slightly

1156
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 2: boring on this and would be the latest, the newest,

1157
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 2: the most interesting, the most up to date way to

1158
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 2: play a record, And the other would be to go

1159
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 2: and find a nice old deck, you know, from the eighties,

1160
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 2: maybe a Techniques. I don't even know if the Techniqu's

1161
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 2: brand exists anymore and go and buy something like that,

1162
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 2: or you know, go and sort of put that together.

1163
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 2: And are plenty of people have friends who do that.

1164
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 2: How are people listening to records? Is it a good

1165
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 2: old system, is it something maybe then inherited from someone

1166
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 2: in the family, or have they actually spent money on

1167
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 2: something new.

1168
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 4: So about five or ten years ago, I would have said, absolutely,

1169
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 4: find a good old system and ask around, you know,

1170
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 4: speak to your family or your uncle, your aunt, who

1171
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 4: knows somebody still has their turntable sitting around and it

1172
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 4: would be a great idea to get it and to

1173
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 4: service it and to get it up and running. What

1174
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 4: has happened we have noticed since since about the COVID

1175
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:07,919
Speaker 4: time is it's become quite difficult to get spare parts unfortunately.

1176
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 4: So certain certain brands you can find, like Pioneer or Technics,

1177
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 4: and you can still get spare parts for those, but

1178
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 4: many others have sort of fallen away. What's happened in

1179
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 4: the instagram is that there are some fantastic brands that

1180
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 4: are meant manufacturing turntables and they are very very good.

1181
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 4: They're well serviced in South Africa and and they've become

1182
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 4: more cost effective let me put it that way. So

1183
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 4: we tend to see people picking up new turntables nowadays.

1184
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 4: But if you do have access to a turntable in

1185
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 4: your family and it's a big brand like a Pioneer

1186
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 4: or a Technique, it's highly recommended that you try and

1187
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 4: get that up and running again.

1188
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 2: And you have to play it through something now again

1189
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 2: a boring alert, but you need a pre amp. Right,

1190
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 2: it doesn't do because the record player puts out a

1191
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:59,479
Speaker 2: volume that's one tenth of you know what a CD

1192
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 2: player your streamer does. So you do do you need

1193
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 2: a little bit more than just the record there?

1194
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 4: You're exactly right, And these are all barriers to entry,

1195
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 4: which kind of sucks a bit, but look, it's it

1196
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 4: just adds to the experience when you are up and running.

1197
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 4: What's very interesting about a vinyl record is you're listening

1198
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 4: to an analogue audio format. So what it is is

1199
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 4: it's literally just the sound of the vibration of a

1200
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 4: diamond tipped stylist or what people would call a needle,

1201
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 4: which is just vibrating in the groove as this record

1202
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 4: turns round and round. You can actually even put your

1203
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 4: ear close to where that stylus is touching the record

1204
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 4: and you can hear the music coming out of it.

1205
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 4: So that simple technology, which has been sort of perfected

1206
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 4: over decades, that technology then has to be amplified in

1207
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 4: such a way, which is why then we require these

1208
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 4: phono preamps to be able to get that very very

1209
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 4: quiet sound and amplify it even further than modern technology

1210
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 4: would have needed recently.

1211
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 2: Who is buying your record too? Coming into the store

1212
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 2: of a sort of Saturday morning, Saturday afternoons, spending some

1213
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 2: time hanging out looking through Is it people my age

1214
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 2: a bit more mature than you know, bred or is

1215
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 2: it people who are a little younger?

1216
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 4: You know, I love this question because it really is

1217
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 4: across the spectrum. I mean, our youngest customers are nine

1218
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 4: ten years old and they will come with their parents

1219
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 4: and buy some pop records. Some of our oldest customers

1220
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 4: who will be in their eighties, We've had people in

1221
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 4: their nineties come to buy records from us. It's really

1222
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 4: whoever is passionate and very very interested and dedicated to music.

1223
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 4: So we find that that's multi generations across all demographics.

1224
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 4: It really does appeal to people from all walks of life.

1225
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 4: So it really is across the board. The one thing

1226
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 4: about final records though, they are a bit expensive, and

1227
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 4: this mostly has to do with the complexities around manufacturing

1228
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 4: overseas and having to ship them all the way to

1229
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 4: South Africa. You know, sadly, if you look at a globe,

1230
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 4: South Africa is probably the furthest away from any pressing

1231
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 4: plants on Earth, and as a result, that can make

1232
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 4: it quite expensive. But you know, if it's something that

1233
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 4: you're really passionate about and it's something that's for you,

1234
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 4: it can be well worth the investment. And speaking of investment,

1235
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 4: it's really really important that all of us go through

1236
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:24,080
Speaker 4: our family family collections and find out if our family

1237
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 4: has any vinyl records left over. There are a lot

1238
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 4: of very rare, valuable and sought after vinyl records that

1239
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 4: were manufactured in South Africa that are very collectible around

1240
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 4: the world's and we have seen some.

1241
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to I'm going to come back

1242
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 2: to that in a second, because I understand some South

1243
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 2: African artists they want to be on vinyl. They find it,

1244
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 2: I know, you try and help you, they find it

1245
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 2: quite difficult to actually to actually get that done because

1246
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 2: it's so expensive.

1247
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 4: It is, and it's a it's an incredibly expensive thing.

1248
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 4: We've tried to sort of step in and help and

1249
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 4: create a very form thinking record label which licenses music,

1250
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 4: pays the artists one hundred percent royalties upfront, and tries

1251
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 4: to sort of set up an ethical structure like that

1252
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 4: which then goes and manufactures these records overseas and brings

1253
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 4: them down. There is a huge cost involved. You tend

1254
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 4: to be looking at a minimum order of about five

1255
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:19,920
Speaker 4: hundred units at a time, and it is quite difficult

1256
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 4: to sell five hundred units of a particular title. In

1257
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 4: South Africa. The market itself is still quite small, but

1258
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 4: the great difficulty actually comes in the knowledge of how

1259
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 4: you actually go about this. Whenever we manufacture a vinyl record,

1260
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 4: it actually involves people in three different countries. Will do

1261
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 4: the best we can locally with some excellent sound engineers

1262
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 4: who will remaster the music for us, but we have

1263
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 4: to use a cutting engineer who's based in the UK

1264
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 4: and a pressing plant that's based in the Czech Republic.

1265
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:52,520
Speaker 4: So it becomes quite a difficult thing to sort of organize,

1266
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:55,640
Speaker 4: and we're doing what we can to help out. You know,

1267
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 4: we've been working a lot with Gallo Music recently, which

1268
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 4: has turned one hundred years old this year, which is

1269
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 4: really fascinating. But there is a lot that could still

1270
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 4: be done for this and eventually, at some point I'm

1271
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 4: hoping that there will be a pressing plant set up

1272
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 4: in South Africa.

1273
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 2: We're speaking to Brett Dagmore, the SEO of SAMP Records

1274
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 2: and the owner and founder of Mister Vinyl. He's our

1275
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 2: guest on how I make my money tonight it's ten minutes, not.

1276
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 1: Her money, So how I make my money?

1277
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 2: Eight minutes to eight. We speaking to Brett Dagmore, the

1278
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 2: SEO at SAMP Records, owner and viner of owner and

1279
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 2: founder of Mister Vinyl. We actually have a voice note

1280
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 2: on seven two seven two one seven two.

1281
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:34,719
Speaker 9: Good evening, Steven.

1282
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,759
Speaker 16: This is Selma from Rudport. I still have a turned

1283
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 16: table that works quite nicely, and I even have some

1284
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 16: old records dating back to the nineteen fifties, the old

1285
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 16: forty five revolutions, but unfortunately I don't have a turn

1286
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 16: table that don't play those anymore. But they belong to

1287
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 16: my dad and that Mario anz and all those great

1288
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:00,799
Speaker 16: names on it, so I'm keeping it just for well

1289
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,759
Speaker 16: you never know, maybe one day it'll become a collector's item.

1290
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 16: Thanks you a lovely show boy.

1291
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,719
Speaker 2: Thanks Somy exactly what Brett was talking about, and Tim

1292
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 2: says Stephen, I'm quietly enduring my own little disappointment, remembering

1293
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,799
Speaker 2: how I burned golden records in the nineties, thinking vinyl

1294
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 2: records would be a thing of the past since we

1295
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 2: didn't even have a vinyl player back there. Now I've

1296
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 2: started collecting vinyl from the scratch.

1297
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:23,920
Speaker 6: Brett.

1298
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 2: It all goes to your point, you've got to look

1299
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,599
Speaker 2: after your records, you do.

1300
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 4: They have to be stored upright, You've got to take

1301
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 4: great care of them. You've got to remove the dust.

1302
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 4: If you're based in the Grace of Johannesburg region, it's

1303
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 4: also very static. You've got to take the static out

1304
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:39,839
Speaker 4: of your records, and yeah, make sure they're in sleeves

1305
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 4: and protected. But we're literally there are so many valuable

1306
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 4: records floating around South Africa that it's really really important

1307
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 4: that all of us do a little bit of research

1308
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 4: and try and figure out if we might be sitting

1309
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 4: with something. I mean, I really love that voice note.

1310
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 4: There's something very sentimental about the records, which we come across,

1311
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 4: but you never know, they could also dramatically increase in value.

1312
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 4: And we have seen that. There's certain records which I

1313
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 4: have found locally, which I've sold for over twenty five

1314
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 4: thousand round, and you know there is a band on

1315
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:14,480
Speaker 4: international demand for quite a few of the South African artists, which.

1316
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 6: You know it can actually be quite a pretty penny.

1317
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:18,839
Speaker 6: So definitely have a look around.

1318
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:23,560
Speaker 2: Sure, so interesting. I'm presuming you've seen the movie High Fidelity.

1319
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 2: I've seen bit some bit funny enough. We keep delaying it.

1320
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 2: There's some really funny moments of track back there. We

1321
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 2: always say as a store, we all need to sit

1322
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 2: down and watch it together at the cinema forty four Stanley,

1323
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 2: So we are planning that at some stage. But yeah,

1324
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 2: there's a lot of special culture around vinyl records. Yes, so,

1325
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 2: I mean I have an image and the High Fidelity

1326
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 2: is a sort of famous movie about people in a

1327
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 2: record store in the nineties, based on a British book.

1328
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 2: The movie was good, the book was very good. You're

1329
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 2: in a store, so you're still in the business of retail.

1330
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 2: It's a very specific retail. There's a lot of business

1331
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 2: you have to manage you're sort of in the place.

1332
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:03,679
Speaker 2: How important is it to be with kind of shops

1333
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 2: that are similar to you. It must, I mean forty

1334
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 2: four Stanley must bring people to you, and particularly that

1335
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 2: place in Joeburg at this time.

1336
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 4: Completely mission critical. Retail is a very, very scary space

1337
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 4: to be in. I mean we started as an I

1338
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 4: started basically as an online hobby store, which got bigger

1339
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 4: and bigger, and eventually it got to the point where

1340
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 4: we could go from clicks to bricks they call it,

1341
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 4: where we could, you know, start to look at getting

1342
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 4: into a retail store. Maybe I was too obsessive and

1343
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 4: too nervous, but I did land up looking I'm not joking.

1344
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 4: It's nearly forty different locations to open the store. The

1345
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:42,639
Speaker 4: space of forty four Stanley opened up and luckily for us,

1346
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 4: the stars did a line and it was the right

1347
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 4: space to get into. But when it comes to retail

1348
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 4: that the tenant mix is absolutely critical. The vibe and

1349
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,719
Speaker 4: feel of forty for Stanley, they're no big chain stores.

1350
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 4: It's very much a community. It's all based around design

1351
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:01,640
Speaker 4: and being the best of small business you can be,

1352
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 4: and that is that has really accelerated our growth over

1353
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 4: the years as well. So you know, I consider myself

1354
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 4: really blessed to have have found that space and it

1355
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:10,639
Speaker 4: is very much our home.

1356
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:15,800
Speaker 2: When CDs first came in Brett and I'm small enough

1357
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 2: to remember that, I thought records would be toast. I mean,

1358
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 2: tapes that already had a big impact. Yeah, and and

1359
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 2: and and records survived CDs, And in the streaming era,

1360
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 2: it's actually CDs that have disappeared, yes, completely, And I

1361
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 2: don't think anyone would have predicted that in the nineties.

1362
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:37,760
Speaker 2: What's so special about vinyl that they've outlived CDs?

1363
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 4: So I think with music that they're two different There

1364
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 4: are two different avenues here. One is quality and the

1365
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 4: other is convenience. So cassettes were well, they presented a

1366
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:51,719
Speaker 4: more convenient way of listening to music. They were small,

1367
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 4: you could put them in your car, you could play

1368
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 4: them anywhere, you could record your own cassettes. Then CDs

1369
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,560
Speaker 4: came along and they were a better version of this convenience.

1370
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 4: But just as CDs came and replaced cassettes, it went

1371
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:06,799
Speaker 4: straight to downloading and streaming, which would just replace CDs

1372
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 4: as being the most convenient way to listen to music.

1373
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 4: The whole Vinyl thing is it's made with such care

1374
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 4: and so many processes are involved to manufacture these analog

1375
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 4: discs that the sound itself does. It does sound better

1376
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:22,679
Speaker 4: depending on whether or not your your system can handle

1377
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 4: it or not. But it's also fantastic to just give

1378
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 4: it a space to collect, a space in your world.

1379
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 4: What I'm finding particularly fascinating at the moment, and I'm

1380
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 4: seeing this almost as like a third driver towards Vinyl records.

1381
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 4: Right now, we're seeing a lot of people who are

1382
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:40,879
Speaker 4: very anti AI and who are looking for these analog

1383
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 4: spaces in their worlds. They're tired of dealing with series

1384
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 4: and dealing with AI issues at work, in the stress

1385
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 4: which that brings, and they're trying to find these ways

1386
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 4: to almost escape from that. And it's just been amazing

1387
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 4: to see how more and more people are talking to

1388
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 4: us about trying to create almost an analogue safe space

1389
01:14:58,160 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 4: for themselves.

1390
01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:00,640
Speaker 6: You know, it's think about it.

1391
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 4: Back in the day, you would go to it's a

1392
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:04,600
Speaker 4: Friday night, you put your kids in the car, and

1393
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 4: off you go to the DVD store. There was no

1394
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 4: algorithm telling you what DVD to buy, perhaps other than

1395
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:13,160
Speaker 4: the posters at the door and the person behind a

1396
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 4: desk who could recommend what was going on. And it's

1397
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 4: a similar thing with Final Records. You know that there

1398
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 4: is no algorithm telling you what to listen to next,

1399
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 4: and it starts to become a very intentional, very rewarding

1400
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,080
Speaker 4: escape and pursuit for music, and people are just falling

1401
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 4: in love with it. So we are seeing that that

1402
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 4: sort of anti AI movement really kicking off of the

1403
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:36,280
Speaker 4: last i'd say six months or so, and it's fantastic

1404
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 4: to see it down here as well. I think we

1405
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 4: all need safe spaces from our technology, and Final Records

1406
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 4: can be one small component of that where you can

1407
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:47,919
Speaker 4: engage and listen to music the way it was originally

1408
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:49,599
Speaker 4: intended for by the artists.

1409
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:52,599
Speaker 2: Well, Brett, it's been great to talk to you. Thank

1410
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 2: you so much, the CEO of SAMP Records and the

1411
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 2: owner and founder of Mister Vinyl. And in fact, I'm

1412
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 2: looking at the person who's idea this was thank you

1413
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 2: very much indeed for that because that worked out very nicely.

1414
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:06,720
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating conversation and really interesting to see how

1415
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 2: the world has changed.

1416
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 12: The Money Show with Stephen Afchreuittez is brought to you

1417
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:16,760
Speaker 12: by apps of corporate and investment backing. Refined performance is

1418
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 12: a measure of discipline. That's how we're invested in your story.

1419
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 12: Apps are raised a f FPE. The Money Show with

1420
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 12: Stephen Afreutz is brought to you by apps of corporate

1421
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 12: and investment backing. Refined performance is a measure of discipline.

1422
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 12: That's how we're invested in your story. Apps as are

1423
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:38,839
Speaker 12: raised at f FPE.

1424
01:16:39,880 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 2: Looks like the buying of the dip already starting in

1425
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,600
Speaker 2: the US. The Dow Jones is down point seven, the

1426
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 2: Nastik is up point three to four, the S and

1427
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 2: P five hundred down point just one at the moment.

1428
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:53,640
Speaker 2: Fascinating to see markets over the next few days of volatility.

1429
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:57,960
Speaker 2: I'm sure will continue with what's happening in the US,

1430
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 2: but primarily what's happening in the At least we're back tomorrow,

1431
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 2: good evening.

1432
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:01,600
Speaker 6: It's a