Speaker 1: Join the conversation on Facebook. Like the capsal page to
Speaker 1: stay up to date up today. Clinton Vandenberg is a
Speaker 1: fellow media professional. He was the pr and media manager
Speaker 1: for Supersport for many many years. He is a journalist.
Speaker 1: He's gone on to do his own thing more recently,
Speaker 1: and he also runs a platform called got Game where
Speaker 1: he does sports interviews with people and really tells incredible
Speaker 1: He's a wonderful storyteller and his writing is outstanding, and
Speaker 1: he posted one of his recent interviews on LinkedIn this
Speaker 1: week because of course, on June twenty fourth, it was
Speaker 1: the anniversary of that remarkable World Cup game that South
Speaker 1: Africa won in nineteen ninety five at Ellis Park, the
Speaker 1: one where we saw Nelson Mandela on the field in
Speaker 1: Francois Pina's jersey. And it really was one of the
Speaker 1: most incredible moments in South African history. It still gives
Speaker 1: me goosebumps to think about it. And the article that
Speaker 1: Clinton wrote was about a man called Robbie Schlemmer who
Speaker 1: was the Springbox boot and change room manager. He played
Speaker 1: a quiet but pivotal role, says Clinton, in one of
Speaker 1: South Africa's most historic sporting moments. The Rugby World Cup
Speaker 1: Final at Ellis Park. Driving from Boksburg and his tours
Speaker 1: a Corolla, Schlemmer began a day of meticulous preparation, from
Speaker 1: ensuring the change room was spotless and well stocked to
Speaker 1: carefully laying out the iconic green and gold jerseys. His
Speaker 1: job may have been behind the scenes, but his commitment
Speaker 1: to detail helped set the stage for the Springbox's unforgettable victory.
Speaker 1: That day, he witnessed the powerful arrival of Nelson mandelena
Speaker 1: Springbok jersey, a moment that confirmed for him that the
Speaker 1: team would win not for themselves but for the country.
Speaker 1: Such powerful writing, I'm delighted to say good morning and
Speaker 1: welcome to weekend breakfast to Robbi Schlemmer, Romie, Robbie, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: Thanks to you Amy, Good morning to you in a
Speaker 2: cold Cape town as I and good morning to your listeners.
Speaker 1: I thought it's so that we're having this conversation today
Speaker 1: because of course the spring Bucks are facing the Barbarians
Speaker 1: at the DHL Stadium this afternoon. It will be a
Speaker 1: cold and wet game, but it is a good time
Speaker 1: to reflect on you on the many, many years that
Speaker 1: you spent with the Springbok team mate.
Speaker 2: No mistake, and I'm sure you all your cape Tonians
Speaker 2: will be at the stadium late this afternoon. Come more
Speaker 2: rain or more wind or more bad weather as you've
Speaker 2: been blessed with the last few days. But yes, there
Speaker 2: is something about that spring Buck emblem, and something about
Speaker 2: the Springbuck emblem surviving all these years and still being
Speaker 2: such a big part of our country. Without a doubt,
Speaker 2: rugby still plays a huge role. And as you said earlier,
Speaker 2: and as Clinton also said, going back to the Medieva
Speaker 2: magic and what Nelson Mandela did on that day, and
Speaker 2: how you brought the country together, and how sport has
Speaker 2: unified this country, even though we do have lots of problems,
Speaker 2: which you also mentioned earlier. Without a doubt year rugby
Speaker 2: I think will always play a pivotal role in South
Speaker 2: African history, not just sports wise, but politically and more
Speaker 2: important to everyone out there that loves their sport.
Speaker 1: Robbie, let's go right back in time and tell us
Speaker 1: about how you first came to work with the Springboks
Speaker 1: at Ellis Park.
Speaker 2: I was lucky enough many years ago to be asked
Speaker 2: by a friend to help out one saturday just in
Speaker 2: the change rooms at Ellis Park as the guy that
Speaker 2: used to do the job had taken off and was
Speaker 2: about to retire. And yeah, what started off with a
Speaker 2: little Saturday job at Ellis Park running the change rooms
Speaker 2: for the Lions. Those days will going back to the
Speaker 2: eighties more trans ball, which then became the Shouting Lions
Speaker 2: and the Golden Lions, and then eventually the Lions had
Speaker 2: all started off on that set and I really enjoyed
Speaker 2: and having been a sports for Nettickus Clinton has probably
Speaker 2: told you my whole life. When that opportunity came, I
Speaker 2: grabbed it and I was involved there for many years
Speaker 2: doing that job. And then you're moving on from just
Speaker 2: looking after the Lions that famous day in ninety five,
Speaker 2: and then while I've got you after that as well,
Speaker 2: been lucky enough to even have been involved with Jake
Speaker 2: White when he was coaching under twenty one when we
Speaker 2: were lucky enough to win another World Cup if I
Speaker 2: remember two thousand and three under Clyde Rathbunk. So yes,
Speaker 2: there is a bit of history there.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to that day in nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 1: that memorable day when you drove to work that day
Speaker 1: to make sure that all your preparation was done with
Speaker 1: such care and pride as you always did. Did you
Speaker 1: have any idea who would be walking into the change room?
Speaker 2: No, only later in the morning when I was told,
Speaker 2: you know that we had to make a plan whether
Speaker 2: all the players get two jerseys, and I was asked
Speaker 2: to make sure what the hierarchy would come fetch one
Speaker 2: jersey because Medieva had decided and it was a state
Speaker 2: secret at the time that you know, he is coming
Speaker 2: to the stadium, but he's not coming with his normal
Speaker 2: Medieva shirts which were so famous for He was going
Speaker 2: to wear the number six jersey, Francis jersey as the
Speaker 2: leader of South Africa and probably well in his own way,
Speaker 2: the leader of the spring Bucks on that day is
Speaker 2: you know, whenever he ended a game with his Medieva magic,
Speaker 2: we never lost. He did have something. And when they
Speaker 2: collected the jersey, well then I only knew or when
Speaker 2: he arrives later, there will be big action coming. And
Speaker 2: as I can tell you, when he did arrive, the
Speaker 2: aura around him and walking into that change room with
Speaker 2: the cap and there the jersey on was incredible because
Speaker 2: even Francois, they didn't know Huntley saw him that Medieva
Speaker 2: was going to wear his jersey.
Speaker 1: Wow. And Robbie in his article, Clinton said that when
Speaker 1: you saw Medeeba there in the jersey, you that's when
Speaker 1: you said you could bet your life that the spring
Speaker 1: Bucks were going to win.
Speaker 2: No, I had a feeling, I must say, my dear.
Speaker 2: But the thing Amy that really made it come through
Speaker 2: for me. I was lucky enough being involved, and even
Speaker 2: though it was crowded, and you know, he had bodyguards
Speaker 2: around him and many people had a wait outside the
Speaker 2: change room when he came in to speak to the guys,
Speaker 2: I was lucky enough to be inside and just checking
Speaker 2: up on everything behind the scenes. I was actually behind
Speaker 2: the wall where the showers off, so like had an
Speaker 2: inside view, probably more by luck. It just worked out
Speaker 2: that way. So I couldn't come out there now because
Speaker 2: it was you know, it was big time. I rocky
Speaker 2: around him and everyone took their seat or you know,
Speaker 2: listened in as he spoke, and the speech he gave
Speaker 2: was just incredible. And you know, it's fitty years later
Speaker 2: and I won't remember work for work, but I do
Speaker 2: remember how he stated that this was a time for
Speaker 2: our new South Africa to come together and you know,
Speaker 2: as he always stated that sport united the country and
Speaker 2: if anything would ever bring South Africa together, it would
Speaker 2: be the likes of sport. But he also made it
Speaker 2: very clear that he didn't want the box to play
Speaker 2: for him or to play for themselves. Today it was
Speaker 2: all about South Africa. And he knew too that if
Speaker 2: they rose to the occasion, they would put us back
Speaker 2: on the map. Because if you remember, and I know
Speaker 2: a lot of youngsters might be listening on people that
Speaker 2: aren't that old, that won't remember that we weren't really
Speaker 2: given a chance. You know, Jonah Lomo was at the
Speaker 2: top of his game, the All Blacks were playing brilliant,
Speaker 2: brilliant rugby. At that stage, we were huge outsiders to
Speaker 2: win the cup. But it just showed you, as people
Speaker 2: will always say, it's on the day and on the
Speaker 2: day after that speech, and then I was also lucky
Speaker 2: enough to hear france Or speech just before the boys
Speaker 2: ran onto the field. And after those two I could
Speaker 2: tell you, Amy, put your house, your car, your trailer,
Speaker 2: your jet ski with a rain down in Cape Town
Speaker 2: even your husband back put everything on because today there
Speaker 2: is no way New Zealand will be South Africa and
Speaker 2: that was exactly as it worked out on the day.
Speaker 1: Wow, I've actually got goosebumps while you're talking, Robbie. When
Speaker 1: Mandela delivered that speech in the change room, which you
Speaker 1: watched from sort of behind the scenes, what was the
Speaker 1: reaction of the players?
Speaker 2: They were all in awe. There was major silence, big respect,
Speaker 2: you know the late Kitch Christie who was also the
Speaker 2: coach at the time. He also was very very much
Speaker 2: a discipline and respect all around. There wasn't a word said.
Speaker 2: You know, you had big boys in there who are
Speaker 2: still communicate with and stay in touch. But the likes
Speaker 2: of the Querbus visas, the Barley Swats, you know, Yupie Milder,
Speaker 2: people that could be nervous at times, the late James
Speaker 2: Small who played a huge role in who I'll always
Speaker 2: look up to any lar who There's just too many
Speaker 2: to mention. And mind you, all those I have mentioned
Speaker 2: too played for trans Ball at the time, who had
Speaker 2: also been involved with They were an absolute awe and
Speaker 2: they were so dedicated and disciplined and just ready for
Speaker 2: you know what lay ahead of them. They would have
Speaker 2: given their lives on that day. They were prepared to
Speaker 2: run through a concrete wall, as I say, not just
Speaker 2: for our president at the time, but for the country.
Speaker 2: And when you said it brings goosebumps to you, you know, Amy,
Speaker 2: It's steady years later, but I still remember it like yesterday.
Speaker 2: And yeah, all there's certain things you want to remember.
Speaker 2: And I had major COVID a few years ago, so
Speaker 2: I did lose a bit of memory as well. But
Speaker 2: all in all, the day that sticks with me, and
Speaker 2: as I say, sticks with South Africa and just takes
Speaker 2: us back to where we were and sometimes a little
Speaker 2: bit sad to see where we are now, but we
Speaker 2: all live in hope and hope that going forward we
Speaker 2: can somehow bring back that sparkle that Bronchois and the
Speaker 2: boys did on that day with the help of Medieva.
Speaker 1: If you've just turned in, I'm in conversation with Robbie Schlemmer.
Speaker 1: He was the Briton Polish guy for the Lions rugby
Speaker 1: team and the Springbok rugby team and was there in
Speaker 1: the change room fifty years ago on that memorable day,
Speaker 1: the twenty fourth of June nineteen ninety five, when South
Speaker 1: Africa beat the All Blacks in the World Cup Final
Speaker 1: and Mandela walked onto the field wearing Francois Pinar's rugby jersey.
Speaker 1: If you've got a question for him about what was
Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes, you're welcome to send it
Speaker 1: to us. On seven two five six seven one five
Speaker 1: six seven. Robbie, you must have had some memorable experiences
Speaker 1: in the change room, not only that day but on
Speaker 1: numerous occasions.
Speaker 2: Ah, you're quite right, Amy, obviously that would have been
Speaker 2: the biggest of all days. And then, as I say,
Speaker 2: being involved myself in two thousand and three again with
Speaker 2: a hunder twenty one World Cup, but many a day
Speaker 2: with the Lions as well. You know Francois at the time,
Speaker 2: and I know Francois now. I've been in Cape Town
Speaker 2: and Kerbus visas in Cape Town and Barley Swats in
Speaker 2: Cape Town, and you know players before that time Western
Speaker 2: Province boy that are still stay in touch with Keith
Speaker 2: Andrews looks to me all the top players in Cape Town,
Speaker 2: although all the years Western Province have also had a
Speaker 2: good sight. But yeah, at that stage the Lions didn't
Speaker 2: lose many matches. And I'm not being arrogant, and not
Speaker 2: because I was call me a baggage master yet Today
Speaker 2: the guys have got big names like kit managers and
Speaker 2: it's all become highly professional. But yeah, we did have
Speaker 2: many celebrations. You know, the Lions or as I've said,
Speaker 2: Transvall won the Super ten. They were up there in
Speaker 2: Super twelve. We won MNIT Night serieses those days, we
Speaker 2: won the Curry Cup, which was a very very big tournament.
Speaker 2: Then it's a bit watered down there as the rugby
Speaker 2: world has changed and the u rcs come on board,
Speaker 2: which but at that stage the Carry Cup was a lot.
Speaker 2: And yeah, we had many celebrations in that change room.
Speaker 2: I remember the late Doc late you know, also celebrating
Speaker 2: and I can I can recall many good times that
Speaker 2: I had and I was privileged enough to have with
Speaker 2: my involvement in rugby. I was never a rugby star.
Speaker 2: I played a bit of sport in my life. But yeah,
Speaker 2: when you see the guys at the pinnacle and the
Speaker 2: very top, and then you realize and that day too,
Speaker 2: after Joel's famous drop kick, and when the boys got
Speaker 2: back in the change room, it's not very easy. I
Speaker 2: don't even think in the English language as words that
Speaker 2: can always explain, but an unbelievable day and not just
Speaker 2: that day. I had an unbelievable time the years I
Speaker 2: was involved, and I wouldn't give it up.
Speaker 1: For anything, Robbie. I've been fortunate enough through my career
Speaker 1: to get to know some of the spring Bucks on
Speaker 1: an off and work with them a little bit. And
Speaker 1: what always strikes me is is big and fearsome and
Speaker 1: possibly aggressive they look on the field. Generally, they are
Speaker 1: incredibly graceful and patient and polite and willing to stop
Speaker 1: and give fans an autograph or a photograph. What was
Speaker 1: your connection with them like? Were they respectful and kind
Speaker 1: to you?
Speaker 2: Amy? I must say I think that's probably part of
Speaker 2: the ethos with the spring Bucks. There were one or
Speaker 2: two that were a bit difficult. Going to mention names,
Speaker 2: I don't think that would be right, but I'd say
Speaker 2: ninety ninety eight percent of them lovely people, salt of
Speaker 2: the earth, solid citizens, down to earth, and of course, well,
Speaker 2: I think it goes back to Doc Craven and even
Speaker 2: before that. When you wear that green and gold, you
Speaker 2: when you're off the field, you become very humble and yeah,
Speaker 2: again i'd have to mention guys like Quebus Visa, the
Speaker 2: gentle giant Bari swat. You know, those guys always had
Speaker 2: time for everyone. And then to me, a very special
Speaker 2: one would always be the late James Small. I never
Speaker 2: ever in my whole life saw James turn anybody away.
Speaker 2: There'd be twenty five kids in a queue, if more,
Speaker 2: or waiting for his autograph. He'd sign every single one.
Speaker 2: He was just an example to so many people. I
Speaker 2: knew James off the field as well. You know, he
Speaker 2: would have given his last cent to a hobo on
Speaker 2: the street. He was and I could say most of
Speaker 2: the bop ah very very much. I think when you've
Speaker 2: reached that level, Amy, not just because we've been world
Speaker 2: champions four times, but if you've become a spring Bok,
Speaker 2: then I think you've kind of reached the pinnacle. And
Speaker 2: you know, pretty much like in boxing, a world champion,
Speaker 2: the same sort of thing. And although some people are arrogant,
Speaker 2: and I've hearded you, especially around the footballers where they
Speaker 2: earn even more money than the box, do you know, yes,
Speaker 2: you do get the arrogant ones, but I think all
Speaker 2: around most sportsmen that reach that level, do you know
Speaker 2: where they come from? And you know, not everyone came
Speaker 2: from Branston or from been millionaires. And some of them
Speaker 2: very humble beginnings, and if you look where they are today,
Speaker 2: even some of the newer spring Bucks that have come
Speaker 2: through under Russi Erasmus, it's wonderful to see. But I
Speaker 2: do firmly believe it all goes back to that era.
Speaker 2: I don't think you'd be lucky enough to wear the
Speaker 2: springbuck Jersney. You were arrogant and you thought you were
Speaker 2: bigger than the game. You know, nobody, whether it's football, rugby, cricket, tennis, whatever,
Speaker 2: can be bigger than the game.
Speaker 1: So powerful words there, Robbie, You've been so generous with
Speaker 1: your time and memories this morning. Will you be watching
Speaker 1: the rugby this afternoon?
Speaker 2: Yes, most definitely. You know, obviously I'll still spring Bucks
Speaker 2: is a part of my life and although I'm no
Speaker 2: longer involved, it's also something that always will play a
Speaker 2: role in my life. And you are South Africa. As
Speaker 2: I say, with all our problems, we've got to be
Speaker 2: proud and we've got to believe. You know, if we
Speaker 2: could just get the politics to be like our sport,
Speaker 2: we'd be winners all round, just like cricket, where it
Speaker 2: wasn't until very recently we managed to break that duck
Speaker 2: and get that monkey off the shoulder. We'll always be
Speaker 2: known around the world for our sport. And I think
Speaker 2: you know, rugby is the great example where it all
Speaker 2: starts at school level already you can down in the
Speaker 2: Cape you know already Paul Boys, Paul Jim where you
Speaker 2: get thirty forty people watching a schools game and strong
Speaker 2: school rugby is So I think our rugby will always
Speaker 2: be well looked after. You've got to say, whether you
Speaker 2: like it or not, Russie is doing a good job.
Speaker 2: So we got a huge advantage. And now if we
Speaker 2: can keep cricket on the right track, hopefully eventually the
Speaker 2: politicians will realize to also get their act together.
Speaker 1: Rubbi is Shlemma. Thank you very much for joining us
Speaker 1: this morning, rather Rubb Rubby.
Speaker 2: Yes, I thank you, Amy, and it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 2: And as I say, yeah, let's hold thumbs. I have
Speaker 2: no doubt we will pull it through this afternoon in
Speaker 2: the mud. But let's hope for another great year for
Speaker 2: the spring Bucks, and not just the spring Bucks, the
Speaker 2: pro Tears and all our sporting codes and for the
Speaker 2: country as well.
Speaker 1: Indeed, we have to leave it there, Rubbi Schlemmer. He
Speaker 1: was the bag master for many years for the Lions
Speaker 1: and the Spring Parks. He says that he've now been
Speaker 1: known as a kit manager if he was involved today,
Speaker 1: but he was joining us on the line from Johannesburg.