1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Seven, not two. You're listening to the best of The 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Money Show. 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 2: The Money Show. Welcome to the best bits of the 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 2: Money Show. A digestive some of the most important conversations, interviews, 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: and I suppose really insights from the show this week. 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 2: If you'd like to hear a bit more, please do 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 2: go to our website go to your podcast episode for 8 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 2: The Money Show. Always a good idea to share it 9 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 2: with someone bound to be someone in your circle and 10 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 2: your sort of WhatsApp list of contacts who you think 11 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: might well benefit from it. To start, some of the 12 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 2: news stories that we thought were important from the week 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: that was. President Sawromer Paus's office says the US was 14 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 2: welcome to attend the g twenty Leader summit in South 15 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: Africa and that President Donald Trump's decision do not participate 16 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: means you should have no say in discussions. Does seem 17 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: that this story is getting very, very interesting. The Reserve 18 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,319 Speaker 2: Bank delivering its fourth interest right cut of the year, 19 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: reducing the REPO rate by twenty five basis points to 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: six point seventy five percent. The decision was you now 21 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 2: and came despite finally a formal lower lower inflation target 22 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: and inflation up just slightly to three point six percent 23 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 2: in October from three point four percent in September. Didn't 24 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: stop the Monetary Policy Committee though. Tonight we bring you 25 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: a mixture of stories from the world of money that 26 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: has been this week our business book review. We spoke 27 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: to Charlotte Otter, author, speaker and executive communications advisor. Her 28 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: book is called Provocatively We Need New Leaders, and she 29 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: explored the concept of reputation equity and what leaders need 30 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 2: to do now and why in a way we need 31 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: new leaders. 32 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 3: It's so much more public having a leadership role now. 33 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 3: We can't avoid the role of social media. And you know, 34 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 3: the divide between internal and extra internal has completely fallen away. 35 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: You know, twenty plus years ago, leaders could say one 36 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 3: thing inside the corporation and another thing outside the corporation 37 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: and get away with it. Whereas now, you know, you 38 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 3: turn up at a old play concert and you on 39 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: the kiss cam and you've lost your job the next day. 40 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: So it's it's extremely pointy and extremely yeah, just extremely 41 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 3: The leaders have to be very very aware of this. 42 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: It must also be a lot harder, I suppose. You know, 43 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: obviously there are lots of different types of business and 44 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 2: those businesses are different areas of those industries, but I 45 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 2: can't help but feel that the sheer pace of things 46 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 2: must be must be very different. 47 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 3: The pace is completely different. And you know, back in 48 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 3: the day, I used to run executive comes at a 49 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 3: big tech company and I was constantly being pressed for 50 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 3: this leader needs to respond on social media. This leader 51 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 3: needs to respond to this event. And you almost have 52 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 3: to take a step back as a leader and take 53 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 3: a breather and say, there are only certain things I'm 54 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: going to respond to. Because if you respond to every 55 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 3: single thing that shows up on social media, then you're 56 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 3: turning into into a media organization yourself. So leaders have 57 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 3: to very intentional about how they're showing up both internally 58 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 3: and externally in their organizations. 59 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: Do you need to sort of pick and issue and 60 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 2: stick with that. Do you need to have some flexibility? 61 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: Do you need to And I know some people do this. 62 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 2: They'll deliberately sort of stay away from public comments for 63 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: a while because when they do make a comment, it 64 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: makes their comment much more powerful. 65 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there is definitely power in not talking 66 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 3: too much and then showing up when when's needed. I mean, 67 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 3: I certainly advise leaders you've got to show up and 68 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 3: have an opinion on you know, the topics within your 69 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 3: within your remits in the business. So you know, if 70 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 3: you're a technology leader and you're not with about AI, 71 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 3: then you know, I'd question why. But you don't have 72 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 3: to comment every time some you know, somebody in the 73 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 3: hype cycle has something new to say about AI. You 74 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: can still be measured, you can still be careful, and 75 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: you can still show up as a smart thought leader. 76 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: I like that phrase, the hype cycle. Does this mean 77 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: that we need younger leaders? Now? Now I understand the 78 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: core for younger leaders. I'm a big fan of experience myself. 79 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: I must just say I'm reminded though, of something that 80 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: someone in the slot said a few weeks ago, which 81 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: is that the generation, the younger generation of today are 82 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 2: more unlike their parents. They're more different to their parents 83 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: than any other generation before them, partly because of social 84 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: media and cell phones. And if you're trying to be 85 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: a leader of a CEO where you've got to sort 86 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: of manage younger people and older people, all of them 87 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: are customers, I mean that's really hard. That generational difference 88 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: is absolutely massive. 89 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 3: The generational difference is massive, and we can't argue with 90 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 3: demographics in terms of how you know gen Z. It 91 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 3: is changing how their show up at work, how they 92 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 3: want to show up at work, how they want to 93 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 3: lead and be led. But in my book, I interviewed 94 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 3: forty leaders, both emerging and established, and the commonalities weren't 95 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: necessarily specific to age, but they were specific to experien 96 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: So I interviewed leaders from diverse backgrounds, diverse identities, and 97 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: underrepresented minorities, and what came up was because of their diversity, 98 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 3: they had lived through obstacles in order to get to 99 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 3: their leadership positions, and those obstacles meant that they showed 100 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 3: up as leaders with empathy, and they showed up incredibly 101 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: intentional about how they spoke, about what language they used, 102 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 3: incredibly intentionally about how they led, and just with a 103 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 3: deep self knowledge and an incredible thoughtfulness. Now, I think 104 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 3: that probably a lot of the gen Z leaders are 105 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: automatically like that. But it's almost as if older leaders 106 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 3: have to learn that it's ok to show up as 107 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: yourself a little bit messy, a little bit imperfect, you know, 108 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 3: the sort of obsession with perfection. It's time for that 109 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 3: to go. 110 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 2: Hmm. I don't know. I mean I think, I mean, 111 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 2: I hear you. I think that a lot of people 112 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: are going to find that to get to the top, 113 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 2: you were told you had to be certain things, and 114 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: now to try and not be those things, I think 115 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: it's quite hard. Do you think that we are likely 116 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: to cycle through leaders more quickly? I mean I'm not 117 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: just talking about unfortunate incidents. I mean, anyone who listens 118 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 2: to coldplay that deserves what they get. But I mean, 119 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: is it not just going to be much harder to 120 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: stay at the top. 121 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 3: Yes, it probably is, so as we move out of 122 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 3: this kind of command and control style of leadership that 123 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 3: I grew up with, you know, the people who led 124 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 3: me more towards a transformational, more agile style of leadership. 125 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 3: I mean it may be that the oldest person in 126 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 3: the room, the most experienced person in the room, knows 127 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 3: less than their graduate higher and so has to seed 128 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 3: leadership on certain topics. And I'm thinking of AI here 129 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 3: to that younger person who's more offa with the topics 130 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,119 Speaker 3: of the moment. 131 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: I mean it also means, though, that you are looking 132 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: for newer leaders more often, and that's no way to 133 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: run a business. I mean, you want continuity, particularly when 134 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 2: it comes to leadership roles, which involves strategy, which is 135 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: I don't know last time I checked all of them. 136 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's not something we're saying you're 137 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 3: changing your leadership layer on a yearly or a six 138 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 3: monthly basis. But maybe what you're doing is you're recognizing 139 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 3: leadership in different pockets of your organization and you're saying, 140 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 3: you know, for the next six months, this particular team 141 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 3: or this particular young leader is going to step up 142 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 3: and run this particular project. So maybe it's just more 143 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 3: of a flexibility and an agility around topics that are 144 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 3: important to the business in the moment. 145 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: That was our business book review. Charlotte Otter there her 146 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: book We Need New Leaders, challenging some of the traditional 147 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: leadership models and looking at different ways of building trust 148 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: and influence. 149 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: The best of The Money Show and. 150 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: Two Personal Finance. This week we're on Ingram Financial advisor, 151 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: co founder of Galileo Capital, talking about sports betting. He 152 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: says it's not a viable investment. He spoke about some 153 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: of the issues around luck around betting, around success, and 154 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: also about the opportunity cost of sports betting. 155 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 4: It's it's one of those things when we talk about 156 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 4: sports betting, that I think is quite polarizing, you know, 157 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 4: and and I guess it's always our job to be balanced. 158 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 4: I don't think it's a case of saying to people, 159 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 4: don't do this, it's terrible for you. 160 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's always bad. 161 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 4: It's a case of saying, like, like any entertainment where 162 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 4: it costs money, and that that's what it is. 163 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: To me. 164 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 4: It's entertainment. You know, it should be treated carefully and 165 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 4: it should be understood. And if you're going to use 166 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 4: your money, use it with knowledge and understanding. And if 167 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 4: you understand that it's entertainment, then my hopefully my stepment 168 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 4: makes a little bit more sense. It's it's it's not investing. 169 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 4: This isn't a way that you're going to get yourself 170 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 4: out of financial trouble. You should treat this in exactly 171 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 4: the same way as you would treat you going to 172 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 4: have a coffee or anything else. It might give you 173 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 4: some enjoyment for a period of time, but after that 174 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 4: the money's gone and you carry on with your day. 175 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 4: If you're using this as a way of kind of 176 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 4: deploying money in the anticipation that you're going to get 177 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 4: yourself out of trouble, which is I think what does 178 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 4: happen from time to time. Then it is a tax 179 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 4: on hope. You know, you cannot hope that you get 180 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 4: yourself out of financial trouble with a bet. It's that's 181 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 4: not how the entire industry works. And it would be 182 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 4: the same with gambling. You're not there to make money 183 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 4: every single time, otherwise there wouldn't be a sports betting industry. 184 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: Okay. Part of this is about the idea that I 185 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 2: know what is going to happen, so I know the 186 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 2: Spring Box are playing on Saturday, and I know there'll 187 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 2: be another red card. Okay, that kind of feeling. Just 188 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: use that example as a slightly easily example. There's a 189 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: kind of a feeling of control. I mean, is that 190 00:09:59,400 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: part of this? 191 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: It is? 192 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 4: And and. 193 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: I'm one of those. 194 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 4: It seems like very rare people that doesn't appreciate the 195 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 4: sport of soccer. But my office is full of Man 196 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 4: United fans, can you believe it? And some of them 197 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 4: have been fans since they were five or six years 198 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 4: old and they are now forty and they would argue 199 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 4: that they are Man United experts and they know Man 200 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 4: United better than anybody else in the world. I might 201 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 4: be exaggerating a little bit, but if I ask them 202 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 4: before the weekends games, who's going to win, it's almost 203 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 4: inevitable that it's Man United, and they'll give me some 204 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 4: fantastic reasons why. And if that was true, that they 205 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 4: were that their team was going to win every single 206 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 4: time they played, then Man United would be an unbeaten 207 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 4: team for the last you know, thirty years, and history 208 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 4: tells you that's simply not true. So what we realize 209 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 4: is that fans, people who you know are committed to 210 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 4: a sport or a team, they believe they have a 211 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 4: special edge because they have been watching their team, you know, 212 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 4: glued as fans for years and years and years, and 213 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 4: so they know better than anybody else what their team's 214 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 4: going to do and and somehow, surprisingly it lands on 215 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 4: the side of positive in most instances. And so they 216 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 4: translate that faith and they are, say hope, into sports betting. 217 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 4: They willing to bet money on their team because they 218 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 4: have insight. They feel they know better than everybody else 219 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 4: what's going to happen. So that that isn't to me 220 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 4: an absolute illusion of control. Somehow I've got I've got 221 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 4: more knowledge than you. And I've got more knowledge than 222 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 4: the other people who are betting, you know, and often 223 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 4: they're supporting another team and I'm going to make money 224 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 4: out of this because I'm an expert. 225 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: So the people who are doing the betting, you're mentioned 226 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 2: a United fan or arguably or Cause of Chiefs fan, 227 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 2: and have the same problem. They are betting with their heart. 228 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 2: What are a book makers doing? 229 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so I think that's you know, that's maybe 230 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 4: where where we need to have perspective when you're when 231 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 4: you're putting money somewhere and you know this is the 232 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 4: money show, so and understand what you do with your money, 233 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 4: and you know, if you're investing, you know, the job 234 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 4: is to explain to you what you're doing with your money, 235 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 4: whether you're buying a share or in a trust. In 236 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 4: this instance, when you're committing money to a bet, you're 237 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 4: given odds. So someone's saying to you, if you put down, 238 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 4: just for argument's sake, one hundred and fifty rand on 239 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 4: a team winning, then I will pay you out your 240 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty rand plus one hundred Ruand just 241 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 4: as an example, now they're not giving you those odds 242 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 4: in the hope that they're going to lose money. They're 243 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 4: giving you those odds and the hope that they're going 244 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 4: to make money, and the way that they calculate those 245 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 4: odds is rather sophisticated. They're not just fans that are 246 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 4: these are companies that employ, you know, very sophisticated algorithms 247 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 4: built by data science mathematicians. They research their market incredibly deeply. 248 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 4: That they will research things that you and I can't 249 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 4: even conceive that would relate to a sport. You know, 250 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 4: forget about just the weather, but all the other conditions 251 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 4: in the world that possibly could impact the outcome of 252 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 4: a game. They will be studying and feeding that into 253 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 4: their algorithms to give them the chances of a team 254 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 4: coming up with a result, whether it's a win, a draw, whatever, 255 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 4: whatever the deal is. On the other hand, what we've 256 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 4: got is our belief that in our skill set and 257 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 4: maybe our friendship circle or whatever we've read on social media, 258 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,239 Speaker 4: and then we place our bet. Now, in most instances, 259 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 4: the odds are going to favor the person giving you 260 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 4: the odds, in other words, the data scientists and the mathematicians, 261 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 4: and so you are relying on luck to win and 262 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 4: to make money out of that if if that's if 263 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 4: that's true, then then you need to be very careful 264 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 4: about how you're going to place those bets and do 265 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 4: you understand that these odds correctly? And I think that's 266 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 4: where where a lot of this can go wrong for people. 267 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 4: If you you know, if if you're betting against the 268 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 4: you know, a very sophisticated business, they're not They're not 269 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 4: cheating you. They've given you the odds that everything you 270 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 4: need to know about the deal is known before the time. 271 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 4: What you should be very honest and humble enough to 272 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 4: say is that the likelihood is that they're going to 273 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 4: win if I put this money down. They are not 274 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 4: giving me these odds because they think I'm going to win. 275 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 4: And I think a lot of people make that mistake 276 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 4: and they still hope they're going to win. 277 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: Okay, but at times I can hear the argument at 278 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 2: times I do win, and doesn't that mean that I 279 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 2: know what I'm doing it? 280 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 4: It does, But we now we need to get back 281 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 4: to behavioral science, to a little bit of psychology. So 282 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 4: so what happens, and it happens with investing as well, 283 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 4: when when people choose individual shares or they choose cryptos, 284 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 4: or they choose currency markets or derivatives or anything where 285 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 4: prices can move very quickly when when they make an 286 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 4: investment decision or bet, and in this instance we're talking 287 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 4: about betting, and their bet lands correctly as they thought 288 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 4: it would, then they will give you a very good 289 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 4: reason as to why they're won. 290 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 5: You know. 291 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 4: And if it's me and I say I think the 292 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 4: spring Box are going to thrash Ireland on Saturday, and 293 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 4: here all the reasons, and if I'm lucky enough that 294 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 4: that's exactly what happens, I will be the Sunday Morning 295 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 4: Hero and I'll give you all the reasons as to 296 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 4: why that that worked out that way. However, if I 297 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 4: make the same prediction and our bet money and things 298 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 4: go wrong, we get two red cards and the weather 299 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 4: is terrible and something happens and someone gets injured, then 300 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 4: I would put that down to bad luck. It won't 301 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 4: be because I made a mistake. And that's that psychology. 302 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 4: It's not that you know, suddenly I'm crazy. That's simple psychology. 303 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 4: We remember our bets with fondness, and we tend to 304 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 4: forget our bets where we were wrong, and we start 305 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 4: to bland that on other factors, it couldn't possibly be us. 306 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 4: And over time, you know, if we bet consistently, you know, 307 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 4: week after week, over six or seven match series and 308 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 4: we're right twice, we'll remember those winds and we'll forget 309 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 4: the losses. You know, a year from now, we'll only 310 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 4: remember the winds. And if we're betting consistently, that's pretty 311 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 4: dangerous because now we start to believe in our skill 312 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 4: and not the element of luck. 313 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 2: Okay, So I mean, and this isn't this The problem 314 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 2: is that you remember the winds. And that's really strong psychological. 315 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: I mean, it's like strong psychologically. It's like when people 316 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: remember being young and they hear music from when they 317 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 2: were young and they think the world was better. In 318 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: South Africa, the world was not better, and yet people 319 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 2: rarely believe it because of where they were at the 320 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: time they were young. And it's the same kind of thing. 321 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: You remember that rush of victory and you you don't 322 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 2: really remember anything. 323 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 4: Else exactly, and and so we we you know, My 324 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 4: favorite phrase to people who are who were lucky enough 325 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 4: to choose a share that did incredibly well is don't 326 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 4: confuse luck and skill. And so when you're when you're betting. 327 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 4: You are absolutely riding on the element of luck. And 328 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 4: and so when you are lucky enough to win, you 329 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 4: need to make sure that you win with humility and 330 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 4: understand that you were lucky and and that you don't 331 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 4: have you know, some special insight that that that now 332 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 4: makes you way better than tens of thousands of other 333 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 4: you know, people and data scientists and and you know, 334 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 4: very sophisticated computers and algorithms, et cetera. You were lucky, 335 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 4: and and that's okay, I'm not not a critique. It's 336 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 4: just that you need to remind yourself that you are 337 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 4: doing something for entertainment and and that's not that you 338 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 4: have a special skill. There might be the very few 339 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 4: people who are you know, mathema radical geniuses and can 340 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 4: work out odds to the thousandth percent of a fraction 341 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 4: of a percent and figure out that sometimes the odds 342 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 4: are wrong, and that might happen in very rare instances. 343 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 4: But for the very vast majority of us, even those 344 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 4: that studied maths at at school and university, we're always 345 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 4: going to be lucky when we win, and we need 346 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 4: to know that, especially when when we then start to 347 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 4: accumulate those losses. 348 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: Okay, there are also I suppose in every in everything, 349 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 2: but particularly and there's some real costs and it's not 350 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 2: just about the money that you lose. 351 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean I've noticed, you know, in the 352 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 4: kind of broader media world now, you know, kind of 353 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 4: commentary around around sports betting and what's being done with 354 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 4: money and and so I mean the job here is 355 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 4: for people to understand what is it costing you If 356 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 4: you're listening to this and you are one of those 357 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 4: people that says, out of mind, I'm happy to put 358 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 4: in five hundred rand a month, you know, and it's 359 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 4: just a little flatter and it's a bit of fun. 360 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 4: You know. If you're in a strong financial position and 361 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 4: five hundre random month is not making your credit card 362 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 4: debt worse and help you know, getting the big personal 363 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 4: loans and overdrafts, et cetera, then good for you. Carry on. 364 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 4: And the context of that is it's money that you're 365 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 4: prepared to spend on a coffee, and you're not doing 366 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 4: it on a coffee. You're now doing it on sports betting. 367 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 4: But if you are in financial trouble and you've got 368 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 4: debt compounding against you work out that five hundred random 369 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 4: month is actually getting you to six thousand round a year. 370 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 4: And that six thousand round a year, what could you 371 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 4: have done with it? Could that have got you out 372 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 4: of the debt hole that you're in at the moment. 373 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 4: And you know, I think a lot of the time 374 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 4: I call it the small bet trap. So you know, 375 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 4: I'm just going to take a quick flatter. And I 376 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 4: noticed the other day on my phone, Steven that now 377 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 4: in my banking app, I can take a flatter on 378 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 4: sports betting sites with small amounts of money. Now, you know, 379 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 4: do fifty round here and there. And you know, if 380 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 4: you do that every week, suddenly fifty bucks, which doesn't 381 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 4: feel like a lot on its own, is two thy 382 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 4: six hundred rand a year. But five hundred rand a 383 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 4: week gets you to twenty six thousand round a year. 384 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 4: That becomes really meaningful money. And we break it up 385 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 4: into those small amounts to make it seem palatable, to 386 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 4: make it seem you know, that it's not such a 387 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 4: big deal. And for people in this space, that's the point. 388 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 4: Are you in a trap of betting here where you're 389 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 4: fooling yourself? You know, an element of self delusion thinking 390 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 4: that it's not such an expensive thing for me to do, 391 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 4: because that's the number you need to work out, is 392 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 4: what is this over a year? 393 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: Warren Ingram's co founder at Galileo Capital. Eight minutes to seven. 394 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: Luke's question, Warren, my daughter's starting varsity next year. We 395 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 2: don't have an education policy. Should we take out a 396 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: student loaner? Should I borrow against my house because the 397 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 2: interest rate is lower and student loans normally have quite 398 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 2: a low interest rate. But we all know, Warre, unusually 399 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: your cheapest finances in your bond. 400 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 4: I like the idea of using a student loan if 401 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 4: you're as a parent, are saying I want my child 402 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 4: to in this instance Luke's daughter. If Luke wants his 403 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 4: daughter to have some responsibility, shared responsibility for her university 404 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 4: education and uh and and you know, feel that responsibility, 405 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 4: then a student loan becomes quite a good way to 406 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 4: help them learn the world of finance, but with with 407 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 4: some training wheels. Because when we've got a student loan, 408 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 4: you know that the student will sign the loan, but 409 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 4: that that loan doesn't get given without the parents signing surety, 410 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 4: and and that means that the parent is going to 411 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 4: be on the hook for that money if if if, 412 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 4: if the student doesn't repay that money when it's due. 413 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 4: Uh And and sometimes these student loans do offer a 414 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 4: bit of a lower interest rate and and often they're 415 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 4: a little bit more generous around when you when you 416 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 4: start repaying the loan, you know, it might be that 417 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 4: you only need you to pay the loan after your 418 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 4: your your varsities are are finished, your studies are finished, 419 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 4: and you've started working. And so if if you as 420 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 4: a parent want or maybe financially you need your your 421 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 4: your child to take some responsibility for for their their 422 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 4: education costs, then then a student loan might be the way. 423 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 4: But very often, you know, parents do want their kids 424 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 4: to get through university without the burden of a student loan, 425 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 4: and if they can afford to help them, then then 426 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 4: you know, using money in your home loan is not 427 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 4: a bad idea. But as Luke says, the interest rate 428 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 4: is probably a pretty good relative to credit cards and 429 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 4: all those things. And and yes, you control you know, 430 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 4: you control what what what gets paid, but obviously you're 431 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 4: always on the hook for that money as as the homeowner. 432 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 4: And and you know then just knowing that you've prolonged 433 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 4: the home loan repayment period on your on your home loan. 434 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 4: So so yes, you know, if you've got accessible money 435 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 4: in your bond and you and you want to take 436 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 4: responsibility entirely for your child's education, then then yes, I 437 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 4: don't mind the home loans as a good option. It's 438 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 4: certainly way better than putting down money from a credit 439 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 4: card or something like that. 440 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 2: Warren Ingram there financial advisor, co founder of Galileo Capital, 441 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 2: talking about sports betting and why he says it's not 442 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 2: an investment. 443 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: You'll listening to the money shows the best bids. 444 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 2: Earlier this week, the Consumer Ninja Wendy Nola looked at 445 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 2: the uncertainty around electric vehicle sales and the real issue 446 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 2: is what happens if something goes wrong. So electric cars 447 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: generally speaking have fewer moving parts as a result, fewer 448 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 2: things can go wrong, but it seems that when they do, 449 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 2: and particularly if there's something that goes wrong involves the 450 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: main battery, it's very hard to replace, which means you 451 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: could be out without a car for some time. Wendy 452 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: Nola had quite a story about it. 453 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 6: Still, the EV market is a tiny percentage of overall market, 454 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 6: but it has been growing It's difficult to know the 455 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,959 Speaker 6: figures though, because the Chinese manufacturer Buid doesn't report its 456 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 6: sales to industry. Body answer, but without them in twenty 457 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 6: twenty four, there were three two hundred and fifty one 458 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 6: units sold in the last five years. I should clarify, 459 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 6: of which one two hundred and fifty seven were sold 460 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 6: last year twenty twenty four. But the question that came 461 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 6: to mind with this case lay that adult and it's 462 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 6: a legacy EV. It's a BMW electric vehicle in the 463 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,719 Speaker 6: case study, But is it a reasonable expectation that manufacturers 464 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 6: in South Africa key battery components, particular in stock to 465 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 6: spare customers a long wait for replacement battery parts should 466 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 6: their cars have an issue? And in this case study, 467 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 6: Jonathan Libenberg of Pretoria he firmly believes so, and after 468 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 6: his experience, he is questioning BMW's support of its EV 469 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 6: car park in South Africa, which he says is around 470 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 6: two thousand. So his BMW I four M fifty had 471 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 6: a battery failure on the seventeen of September, which is 472 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 6: where the story starts. 473 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so when did he buy it? I mean, 474 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 2: how old is the car? 475 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 6: It's new ish. She bought it new last January. The 476 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 6: replacement battery cell will only be fitted and the car 477 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 6: returned to him on the eighteenth of December. So in 478 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 6: his case, that's a three month process. Yeah, exactly. And 479 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 6: he's saying they should have a couple of hundred of 480 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 6: these battery cells in their warehouse, but no, they have none. 481 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 6: He told me. He does concede on upset that the 482 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 6: service that he's received from the BMW leadership in Mainland 483 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 6: has been really good. But yeah, three month wait is. 484 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 5: A long time. 485 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 2: I mean, was there I mean, I mean many of 486 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: us and many families just come to Holt when that happens. 487 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 2: Was he offered a curtes He car. 488 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 6: Yes, according to BMW So Africa, he was. So they 489 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 6: did at least tick that box. But again it comes 490 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 6: down to a three month wait. 491 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: And what does he want to happen? I mean, this 492 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: is such an interesting question because I think so many 493 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 2: people might and particularly with electric cars, fewer parts that 494 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 2: have something happens to them much harder to fix. 495 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, So in my website form I have always ask 496 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 6: people what would you consider to be a reasonable resolution 497 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 6: of this situation? And he gave three options. He says, 498 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 6: I don't want a car that takes three months to 499 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 6: repair while under motor plan, so I want a full refund. 500 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 6: He thinks that's fair. Or he said they can replace 501 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 6: my car with a working one it takes that makes 502 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 6: it one and a half months DIRECTI far rather than three, 503 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 6: he says, or make a public statement declaring their plan 504 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 6: to improve customer service by having five battery packs, one 505 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 6: hundred battery modules, and a thousand battery cells of their 506 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 6: spares warehouse. He did say there was some method to 507 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 6: that calculation, but yeah, quite a big ask, all three 508 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 6: of them. Yeah. 509 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 2: Interesting though, I mean he's kind of putting BMW one 510 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 2: terms and I'm guessing here, Wendy, but I suspect that 511 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 2: the answer was no. 512 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 6: Not out of three. Yeah, here's what BMW did say. 513 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 6: I said that part of the reason, well doesn't answer 514 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 6: the question of have them in stock, but for safety reasons, 515 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 6: all EVS manufacturers have to send battery cells and modules 516 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 6: for safety reasons by sea freight, so there's none others 517 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 6: just put it on a plane and get it over with, 518 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 6: depending on where the battery sales are manufactured, said BMW. 519 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 6: Soth Africa, ie Europe versus China. There's a twelve to 520 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 6: sixteen week lead time from any of our BMW Group 521 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 6: competence centers to manage the global supply of battery cells 522 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 6: and modules. Replacements are managed centrally by BMWAG and sourcing 523 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 6: replacements for just in time delivery ensures that we are 524 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 6: better able to control and guarantee the battery post the 525 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 6: quality of the battery post repair. And they then just 526 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 6: laid out Liedenburgh's car's whole process, the parts arriving at 527 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 6: the port on the twenty third of November. It's just 528 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 6: a few days from now. Then it'll go to the 529 00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 6: parts warehouse first week of December, but estimated completion eighteenth 530 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 6: of December. As you said, and this was the crux 531 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 6: I think of their response, Stephen, given the small number 532 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 6: of battery module and cell replacements that we've performed in 533 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 6: this market since twenty fifteen, and the component's relative shelf life, 534 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 6: it would not be viable to keep stock in hand. 535 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 6: So people aren't wanting old batteries, and there's not a 536 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 6: lot of demand from them because mostly these cars operate 537 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 6: the batteries that don't have issues, So you know, this 538 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 6: Jullian was particularly unluckily. But yeah, I see his side 539 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 6: three months. I wouldn't have been happy with that either. 540 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 2: No, and also it's not what you expect, especially from 541 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: brand you. No, you don't expect that other EV brands, 542 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 2: I mean Volvo plays in the space then plenty of 543 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 2: other people. V Byd I think is going to come 544 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: in a big way. Yes, do we know anything about 545 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 2: their replacement battery components? 546 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 6: I did attempt to find out for reasons of comparison. 547 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 6: So Volvos, as you say, ex thirty was among the 548 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 6: best selling EV's last year. We've got to say among 549 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 6: because on paper it is, but the we don't have 550 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 6: bid figures, which they are a big player with their 551 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 6: Atto three and the more affordable Dolphin becoming very popular 552 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 6: from last year. So but I asked Volvo. They said, unfortunately, 553 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 6: they're going to need more time to come up with 554 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 6: an answer, so it's to be continued. 555 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 2: That means we don't know. 556 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 6: I don't know. I mean I wouldn't have thought that 557 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 6: was something you need deep research on. The question I 558 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 6: asked was do you have stock and how long is 559 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 6: your typical repair? Basically, so by D said that while 560 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 6: it did have a local parts warehouse in Choburg. Because 561 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 6: our voltage battery components are highly specialized, not every module 562 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 6: is stocked locally at all times, which is why lead 563 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 6: times can vary. Blade batteries, so that's the main battery 564 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 6: powering the car and not the acceiliary one that does 565 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 6: you know, the wood school wipers and radios and things. 566 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 6: They are quite long lead times, as BMW said, because 567 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 6: they have to be c freighted. But yes, we have 568 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 6: batteries in stock for our bid models and our Joebic warehouse, 569 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 6: and we plan according to sales records, car park requirements 570 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 6: and planned for see for a delivery of the blade batteries. 571 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 6: So if they haven't stocked, the replacement process takes five 572 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 6: to seven days. If not, they're not saying how long 573 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 6: that will take, but I'm guessing it's also going to 574 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 6: be a long time. So that's just something to bear 575 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 6: in mind with these cars that in the I think 576 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 6: it is a well, justly bw's case, unlikely event of 577 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 6: something going wrong, you are going to have a lengthy 578 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 6: weight and I think as long as they give you 579 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 6: alternative transport, it might not be exactly what you had, 580 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 6: but at least that's something goes towards keeping you mobile right, not. 581 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 2: Just absolutely, and often for a lot of people, your 582 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 2: your business, your entire income rests exactly Wendy Nola. They're 583 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 2: talking about transparency and preparedness and electric cars, and unless 584 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 2: there's some kind of clarity, this may hold the market 585 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 2: back a little bit. 586 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: Seven notes the best of the Money Show from this week. 587 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 2: Our shape shift to this week very fin sales at 588 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 2: the Global NBA Program lead at Inley Business School Africa. 589 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 2: He looked at the rhythms of his life. He started 590 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 2: out as a drummer, he ended up playing with Johnny 591 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: Kleig for a long time, played with some of the 592 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 2: biggest names in music, and then went into business academia 593 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 2: and had lots to say about leadership and management. 594 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 5: Well, because I work with a business school, I wish 595 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 5: I could say it was strategic, but it actually wasn't. 596 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 5: It wasn't at all. And from the outside, I've thought 597 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 5: about this a bit, and I guess from the outside 598 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 5: it looks like a big jump from music to business education. 599 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 5: But for me, it's kind of felt like a natural 600 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 5: progression and I followed. I followed what felt right and 601 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 5: pretty much in the same way as when I started 602 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 5: playing drums when I was five or six years old. 603 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 5: And the court trigger, interestingly in that has always been 604 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 5: the same, and I've whitkled that down to to visibly 605 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 5: changing lives. That's been that's been the trigger, whether I've 606 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 5: played drums or been teaching on the NBA excuse me, 607 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 5: on the NBA program. And so the only different really 608 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 5: is I've I've kind of I've swapped the drums for 609 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 5: the classroom, you know, And but apart from that, it's 610 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 5: still performance. And I have to say, groups of classes 611 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 5: of NBAS are a tough audience. And so it's been 612 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 5: this interesting shift, yeah, from I like to think of 613 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 5: it as shifting from the business of rhythm to the 614 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 5: rhythm of business. 615 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 2: It's a very interesting way to look at it. This 616 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 2: is going to be a very strange question. And forgive me, 617 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 2: I know nothing about music. I was kicked out of 618 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 2: recorder class and Senate three, you know, would it have 619 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 2: been different if you weren't the drummer. And let me 620 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 2: just sort of say, and let me just play into 621 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 2: stereotype for a moment. We all know that lead guitarists 622 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 2: of rock bands or prima donnas. You know, they're the 623 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 2: fly halfs. If you like the center forwards of a band, 624 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 2: a drummer is very much for the team in a way. 625 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 2: I realized that you may disagree with that, and I'll 626 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 2: be quite habby to hear you disagree. But but is 627 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 2: there something about drumming that made this easier or made 628 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: it just more likely? This is the path you would choose? 629 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 5: Uh, yeah, it's a. It's a. It's an excellent question. 630 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 5: When I started, I followed my intuition to play. The 631 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 5: drum set was so strong that it was kind of 632 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 5: like a moster flame. I didn't have a choice in 633 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 5: the in the equation when I was really little, so 634 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 5: I was making When I was four or five, I 635 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 5: was constructing drum sets from my mother's cake tins and stuff, 636 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 5: and driving the driving the neighbors crazy, so so the 637 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 5: so that the drum set was a no brainer. Much later, 638 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 5: when I studied formally, then then I started dabbling with 639 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 5: other instruments. So I did. I played. I did some 640 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 5: years playing double bass. I had to go at violin, 641 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 5: but drums always won out. And when I was at 642 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 5: proper music school in California, I had to do a 643 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 5: harmonic instrument as my second instrument, so then I had 644 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 5: to do piano harmony and stuff. But though that was 645 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 5: all a means to a to an end in terms 646 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 5: of composition, but my primary, my heart was in rhythm 647 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 5: and playing drums. And so when I was a kid 648 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 5: and I saw older people playing, you know, playing playing shiny, 649 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 5: flashy drum sets, that was it. It was. I didn't 650 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 5: have a choice after that, so it was that was 651 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 5: definitely my path. And interestingly, what I'm doing now at 652 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 5: the business school and with lots of the corporate development 653 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 5: work I do or leadership development, a lot of it's 654 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 5: ba on rhythm and cycles and pulse and this this 655 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 5: notion of groove, the sort of musical term for a 656 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 5: state of flow. So this is my this is the 657 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 5: part that's fascinating me now, and I can see that 658 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 5: there's a clear transference of that to to teams and 659 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 5: leaders in businesses. So so rhythm and pulse and cycle 660 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 5: have stayed with me very strongly all the way. 661 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 2: It's interesting you talk about a sort of groove of business, 662 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 2: so you're talking about how a business gets going, you know, 663 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 2: beat the thing about it and the thing about a 664 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 2: groove is that it is that it repeats itself and 665 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 2: can build on itself, I suppose, And that is that 666 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 2: what you're talking about within the business. 667 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:52,399 Speaker 5: Yeah, I am, you know, a drummers. It's about translating 668 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,760 Speaker 5: a drummer's groove into something that a CEO can actually understand. 669 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 5: And so I'm trying to I'm trying to ground this 670 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 5: in science and also an experience and grooves what happens 671 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 5: between members of a band, not just a drummer, by 672 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 5: the way, So it's a relational thing. And so I'm 673 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 5: now fascinated by the deep roots that I'm seeing emerging 674 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 5: in physics, in neuroscience and embodied human behavior. And what 675 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,240 Speaker 5: I've what I've figured out is that leaders in business 676 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 5: understand that they understand flow states and peak performance and 677 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 5: team align alignments, but they're all kind of they're all 678 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 5: not quite groove. Groove encaptivates all of this. So I've 679 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 5: kind of taken what I've lived in elite music performance 680 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 5: and combined with leaderships with leadership theory and kind of 681 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 5: found a common language sort of between the concert stage, 682 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,240 Speaker 5: I guess, and a and a I don't know, a boardroom. 683 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 5: So that's that's been the process. 684 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 2: I mean music, I mean this is this is such 685 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 2: a city thing to say because it's said so often, 686 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 2: but music sort of moves your soul, It changes your mood, 687 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 2: it makes you feel in a particular way. And business 688 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 2: leaders do absolutely the same thing. If you stand up 689 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,839 Speaker 2: and speak to people, you're not singing to them, but 690 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 2: you are moving them. You're having the same impact. 691 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, you hit the hit the nail on the 692 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 5: head there. So it's a it's an embodied experience and 693 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 5: the thinking comes later. It's kind of more intelligent than 694 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 5: than than thinking. It's a it's a it's a it's 695 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 5: a it's a deeper intelligence and that's that's that's uh. 696 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 5: That for me is what the interesting part about groove is. 697 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 5: And I think that's what brought me to the drum 698 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 5: set as a kid, and I saw the effect on people. 699 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 5: And I've just I've just followed that. 700 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 2: You mentioned that your your second sort of instrument you 701 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,479 Speaker 2: have to do a harmonic instrument was a piano. Yeah, 702 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,399 Speaker 2: and I'm I I am just to sort of change 703 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 2: the subject slightly interesting and whether that was because I 704 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,720 Speaker 2: think your dad played piano and you played the drums 705 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 2: with him, and that must have been a very powerful memory. 706 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,720 Speaker 2: And and you must have had a few few neighbors, 707 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 2: but you must have had very forgiving parents to give 708 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 2: you a drum set, or to let you play with one, 709 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 2: or to give up the cake tins, and that must 710 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 2: have played a big role. And where I'm sort of 711 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 2: going with this is leadership and good drummers and good 712 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 2: NBA heads need not just the raw talent, which clearly 713 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 2: you had in the desire, but an enabling environment too, 714 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 2: and your parents must have provided that. 715 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely they both did you know? My dad 716 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 5: played piano by ear, so he wasn't a school musician, 717 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 5: so the same as me actually, And and my mom 718 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 5: just encouraged it. She loved the creativity. She was a 719 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 5: very creative spirit. And my dad, in his wisdom at 720 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 5: the time, which was quite a bit of an outlier 721 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 5: sort of mindset because we were in a little you know, 722 00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 5: he was he was in the motor industry in the 723 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 5: Eastern Cape and didn't come from a musical background. But 724 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 5: when he saw that he couldn't keep me away from 725 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 5: a party in music, he said that if I'm going 726 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 5: to pursue this seriously, I should study business. First and 727 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 5: then go and study music in America, which was really 728 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 5: kind of future facing for that time, and so that's 729 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 5: exactly what I did. I actually went into a marketing 730 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 5: diploma at BITS and then went to California and studied 731 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 5: music formerly. So there was complete support from them, but 732 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 5: they didn't understand what I was trying to do, and 733 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 5: they didn't understand where I was going, but they could 734 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 5: see the passion and they supported that, you know, and 735 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 5: I'm grateful for that forever. 736 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 2: You you had a career touring sort of Johnny Claig 737 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 2: in particular, for a long time, and you've performed with 738 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 2: a lot of other people. And I see when I 739 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 2: see musicians do that on the stage, is I'm seeing 740 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 2: the glamorous side, right, I'm not seeing the hours of rehearsal. 741 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 2: I'm not seeing the banging of the head because the 742 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 2: song just won't work or whatever it is. But what 743 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 2: I did want to ask specifically about tourism. About touring, 744 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 2: is it that much fun or is it a bit 745 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 2: of a slog? 746 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 5: It's steering, It's such fun everybody should ever go to 747 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 5: at the chance. No, it's probably the thing I missed 748 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 5: the most. I do love traveling, and when I transferred 749 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,840 Speaker 5: in about two fifteen fifteen, I guess sixteen I started 750 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 5: getting more interested in business education than playing music. I 751 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 5: was skinning a bit one dimensional in the performance of music. 752 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 5: But I still love the traveling interestingly. And so to 753 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 5: answer your question, it's an incredible amount of fun. It 754 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 5: does depend on the on the scale of the tour. 755 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 5: And with with twenty odd years with Johnny the touring, 756 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 5: the quality of touring was very good, and so it 757 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 5: was well organized. And it is dear and it is 758 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 5: ferocious because normally the production will try and fit in 759 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 5: as many performances per week, and normally every performance is 760 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 5: a different city. So in North America, for instance, you 761 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 5: can only really start to make a dent in the 762 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 5: market by touring for three months and play and playing 763 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 5: five cities a week. So it is a it's it's 764 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 5: it is daunting and brutal from that point of view. 765 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 5: But the idea of just popping up into a different 766 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 5: city every day, with this routine of not having to 767 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 5: think about anything, but you know, the tour manager would 768 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 5: give you your your your room key, you'd deeper bit going 769 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,319 Speaker 5: to a sound check played this glorious show for a 770 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 5: room full of people meet, have some fascinating conversations afterwards, 771 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,919 Speaker 5: and the next day I just repeat the whole thing 772 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 5: and uh, and then you know, there is there is 773 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 5: the romance of the tour bus, the band tour bus 774 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 5: around North America, which is a wonderful experience. So as 775 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 5: you can hear by my voice, I'm I'm, I'm still 776 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 5: I'm still kind of in that and I and I 777 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 5: and I and I missed that. Actually that was so so. 778 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 5: Touring is a is a is a really fun occupation 779 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 5: and I'm hugely grateful for having had the opportunity to 780 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 5: do that, you know, for two decades. 781 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,439 Speaker 2: I'm suddenly slightly jealous about it, say that, and having 782 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 2: it organized for you. Barry, Oh, that's the most exciting. 783 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 2: We're talking to Barry fun Sale. He's a global NBA 784 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 2: program lead at the Henley Business School in a professional 785 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 2: drummer for many years. As well as you can hear, Barry, 786 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 2: I'd like to talk about the NBA side if I 787 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 2: made for a moment, And there was a time when 788 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 2: an m b A the seventies and eighties in particular 789 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,439 Speaker 2: was really the gold standard. You had one of those 790 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,959 Speaker 2: people kind of stand up when you entered the room. 791 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 2: Does it still have that prestige? I mean, there are 792 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,080 Speaker 2: a lot more people with them for a start, uh, 793 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 2: And an NBA is obviously still very important, but I 794 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 2: mean as it maybe lost a little bit. 795 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 5: Of that luster. I think the the the past vision 796 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 5: or the traditional vision of the NBA has perhaps lost 797 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 5: some luster. And that's as a mechanism to to climb 798 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,320 Speaker 5: the corporate ladder, which I think was the initial glass 799 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,240 Speaker 5: on the NBA. But what we're feeling, what we're finding 800 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 5: now at Hanley, is that we're getting a lot of 801 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 5: unusual candidates for the NBA. We're getting a lot more 802 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 5: unusual candidates, me being a case study in one of those. 803 00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 5: But we're getting entrepreneurs, founders, people pivoting in careers and 804 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,720 Speaker 5: support and not and and maybe wanting to go from 805 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,880 Speaker 5: the corporate sort of from an employee to an employer 806 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 5: kind of stages. And that for me is really interesting 807 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 5: and I think that's the future of the NBA. So 808 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 5: in a very uncertain future. I think the short term 809 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 5: future has never been more uncertain, and especially with the 810 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:26,640 Speaker 5: advent of artificial intelligence, which is kind of top of mind. 811 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,879 Speaker 5: The roots of studying a specialty is probably not as 812 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 5: attractive anymore, and a generalist program like the NBA is 813 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,920 Speaker 5: arguably the best preparation for an uncertain future because you 814 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 5: kind of learn a little about a lot and you're 815 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,440 Speaker 5: not sticking yourself in one sort of deep slice of expertise. 816 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 5: So I think that the NBA is still relevant, but 817 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,000 Speaker 5: for highly relevant, but for different reasons than it was, 818 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:55,879 Speaker 5: say ten or fifteen or twenty years ago. 819 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 2: I mean a lots of consequences that AID could bring us. 820 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 2: One of them maybe that actually there's a premium on 821 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:07,280 Speaker 2: more higher education to to to be involved in business, 822 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 2: you'll actually have to be better educated, not less. 823 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, And you know you were talking you said earlier, 824 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 5: you were talking about my transference to the to the 825 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 5: I take care of the Global MBA program, which is 826 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,720 Speaker 5: Hendy's kind of flagship m b A. But I also 827 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,680 Speaker 5: teach on the on the n b A program, I 828 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,839 Speaker 5: teach a module called Personal Development. And out of this 829 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,400 Speaker 5: module a book got born that I wrote with my 830 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 5: colleague in the UK, doctor Christalton, and I've been doing 831 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 5: I've been doing a fair amount of talks about the 832 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 5: book and really what it's about is it's the stuff 833 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,320 Speaker 5: that A I can't do because AI certainly group groups 834 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,400 Speaker 5: beyond AI and so and so the concept, yeah, is 835 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 5: how do we how do we champion you manage in 836 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,720 Speaker 5: with AI empowered by AI? So humans that understand AI 837 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 5: very well is kind of the future of leadership. And 838 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,360 Speaker 5: so this book is is looking at that, and the 839 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 5: foundation of the book is kind of looking at that 840 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 5: from different lenses. 841 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 2: I do want to ask about higher education as well, 842 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 2: and we're going to run out of time in a moment. 843 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 2: At the moment, many institutions like yours, you offer your 844 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,840 Speaker 2: degree through other institutions, so Penley Gibbs us through the 845 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 2: University of Victoria. It looks like the Higher Education Department's 846 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 2: going to change that and we're going to see private 847 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,719 Speaker 2: institutions conferring degrees. And I look at the business of 848 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 2: higher education in South Africa and I think, man, oh man, 849 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 2: the only way that there is can be there must 850 00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 2: be such demand for it. Do you see it like that? 851 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 5: Yeah? I do, I do. And the appetite for for 852 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:57,320 Speaker 5: learning is definitely elevating. And you know that's and that's 853 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,200 Speaker 5: I think all across subs are in Africa and to 854 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 5: South Africa. So yes, I think the appetite for equality 855 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,759 Speaker 5: qualification and then there is there is of course a 856 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 5: difference between where you do something like an m b 857 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,320 Speaker 5: A and you know, I think a lot of people 858 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,880 Speaker 5: that are that are speculating as to which institution to 859 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:22,319 Speaker 5: go to, are looking for for global integration and and 860 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 5: and looking at which programs are you know, triple quadruple accredited, 861 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 5: Which what NBA can you do in Southern Africa that 862 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,279 Speaker 5: would hold value globally and that kind of thing. And 863 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,160 Speaker 5: so I think there's a big appetite and I think 864 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,799 Speaker 5: rightly so, and I think we you know, as we 865 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 5: get into a truly global market, things like global MBAs 866 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 5: are going to be a very attractive, very attractive option. 867 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,239 Speaker 2: We've got a minute left. What do you What do 868 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 2: you do for fun? And I'm sure that music is 869 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 2: part of some of what you do for fun? 870 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,880 Speaker 5: Interestingly, I don't. I don't play music at all anymore, Steven. 871 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 5: I just I took the decision that I didn't want 872 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:05,920 Speaker 5: to be playing in a pub on a Sunday night 873 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 5: the guy that used to play the. 874 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 2: Bad Yeah, yeah, that that's very wise. I'm not saying not. 875 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, And so I like going to watch music. But 876 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 5: and I'm still involved with with certain with certain friends 877 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,560 Speaker 5: in the industry. I still make a little bit of music. 878 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 5: I'm still connected to my friends in in the rap 879 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 5: band The On for It, and we we trade things 880 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,440 Speaker 5: around every now and again. I love them. They they 881 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:36,920 Speaker 5: probably my my most inspiring creative colleagues, you know. And 882 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,759 Speaker 5: but for for for fun, I go for for fun. 883 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,759 Speaker 5: I run and I read, and I've just stopped. I've 884 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 5: just started my doctorate. So I've got, I've got. I've 885 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 5: got various things on the go. But I like activity. 886 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,240 Speaker 5: I like running, and I like boxing and physical stuff. 887 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,800 Speaker 2: Very fun sale there showing us his journey from the 888 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,160 Speaker 2: global stage with Johnny Clegg, so the halls of the 889 00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 2: Henley Business School was really all about his philosophy of business. 890 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,560 Speaker 1: You were listening to The Money Show's Best Bits. 891 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Best Bits of The Money Show, 892 00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 2: a digest of some of the best conversations, thoughts and 893 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,879 Speaker 2: interviews from the week. If you'd like to hear more, 894 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,319 Speaker 2: please go to a website, to your favorite podcast app 895 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,280 Speaker 2: and search for The Money Show. Thanks for listening, Looking 896 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,040 Speaker 2: forward to talking to you again. The Money Show Back 897 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 2: six o'clock on Monday. Have a good weekend,