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Speaker 1: Stephen, that's on the Money Shows six to eight pm.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure you're back at work by now. Your

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Speaker 2: children probably go back to school tomorrow. Here the industry

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Speaker 2: getting into gear. The amount of electricity that we need

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Speaker 2: really does go up this week every year, but actually

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Speaker 2: this year ESKIM has a pretty big cushion around four

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Speaker 2: four hundred mega. What's more than it actually needs at

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Speaker 2: the moment. Chris y Ellend is the energy analyst and

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Speaker 2: joins Chris. Good evening. Good to talk to you again

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six. For so long you and I

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Speaker 2: have had conversations about lack of power. Now we have

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Speaker 2: more than we need. Are we getting closer to the

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Speaker 2: kind of cushion that a utility would normally operate with

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Speaker 2: to make sure that everyone's comfortable in They no problems.

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Speaker 3: So it's important, you know, from the security point of

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Speaker 3: vieww it's curity of supply to here.

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Speaker 2: Chris, I'm just going to ask you to let's to

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Speaker 2: see if we can improve the reception on that line.

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Speaker 2: Sounded a bit bizarre and not what we aim for.

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Speaker 2: That's happened sometimes, but let's just see if we are

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Speaker 2: able to increase that might well depend on where he is.

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Speaker 2: You can imagine the things that can happen with cell

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Speaker 2: phone settings. We have had this a couple of times

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Speaker 2: more recently. Not much that we can always do about it.

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Speaker 2: Don't forget. We'll be talking about tax reforms in just

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Speaker 2: a moment as well with Professor Keith Engel. An important conversation,

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Speaker 2: I think, particularly if you're involved with multinational firms so

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Speaker 2: many of them do use the system, or at less,

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Speaker 2: try Christia and Press. I think we have a better line.

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Speaker 2: I was asking you if we have the kind of

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Speaker 2: cushion that we need now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is important to have a cushion, to have

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Speaker 3: a generation surplus, so that, you know, not every little

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Speaker 3: event triggers a crisis. And yes, we went through a

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Speaker 3: period you know where we had like ten thousand megaworks

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Speaker 3: of capacity sitting in what is known as cold reserve. Effectively,

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Speaker 3: it means they've switched it off because it's not needed,

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Speaker 3: and it's just sitting there idle because it's not And

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Speaker 3: of course this really does dramatically distort things like the

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Speaker 3: energy availability factor, the amount of maintenance that has been done,

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Speaker 3: because obviously, you know, if the stuff is off ten

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Speaker 3: thousand megawats of it. Who's to know if it was on,

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Speaker 3: whether it would be breaking down or not. So it's

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Speaker 3: just considered when it's sitting there, it's cold reserve. It's

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Speaker 3: sitting there as available capacity, but one doesn't really know

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Speaker 3: because one is not actually pressurizing or putting pressure on

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Speaker 3: that plant or loading it. So it creates great distortions

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Speaker 3: in the data whether and also, i mean when it's

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Speaker 3: sitting there it's cold reserve, you know, one not necessarily

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Speaker 3: doing a maintenance on it, so the maintenance figures look

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Speaker 3: low and the availability figures look high. And this just

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Speaker 3: creates a very distorted picture when you have this massive

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Speaker 3: amount of spare capacity sitting idle. In fact, suit sitting oft.

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Speaker 2: Eskim says, it's moving to a different phase now so

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Speaker 2: it can keep the lights on now. It needs to

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Speaker 2: operate more cheaply and more sustainably. Those are big issues,

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Speaker 2: and particularly the finances of ESCUM are still very difficult

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Speaker 2: and there'll be a lot of pressure to try and

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Speaker 2: produce electricity and basically to save money in every single

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Speaker 2: possible way it can, you know, to.

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Speaker 3: Talk about saving money and prices going down for electricity customers.

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Speaker 3: In an environment where you are selling less because demand

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Speaker 3: is declining, because there are alternative energy sources that people

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Speaker 3: are turning to, because smelters are shutting down all over

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Speaker 3: the country. This actually pushes the price up because you're

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Speaker 3: trying to recover a certain cost base off a declining

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Speaker 3: sales volume base. So there are Whilst certainly there's been

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Speaker 3: dramatic improvements in the reduction of load shedding, one has

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Speaker 3: to be concerned about the decline in demand and what

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Speaker 3: is what is really going on with the decline in

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Speaker 3: demand and the alternative energy sources. It does not paint

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Speaker 3: a healthy picture for utility monopoly kind of utility. In fact,

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Speaker 3: it's just the opposite. So I would be very worried

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Speaker 3: about demand. I would be worried that this is the

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Speaker 3: drop in demand is actually putting a good price pressure.

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Speaker 3: And there are many issues that ESKIM faces, many many

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Speaker 3: Besides the operational issue, there's the environmental issues and the

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Speaker 3: cost of environmental compliance, and as well the financial issues,

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Speaker 3: the ability of municipalities to pay the rapidly rising increases

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Speaker 3: in price resulting in increased deft and non payment, and

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Speaker 3: the ability of sapalities to pay escum. These are all

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Speaker 3: the pressures that are on ESKUM now. So there's a

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Speaker 3: long way from saying that we're out of the woods.

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Speaker 3: In fact, deep with ESKUM is deep in the woods stool.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying that they haven't improved operationally. They certainly have,

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Speaker 3: but there have been a number of reasons why we're

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Speaker 3: sitting with a surplus of ten thousand megawats at one stage.

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Speaker 2: You've suggested this week, in fact today that ESKIM has

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Speaker 2: said publicly it's withdrawn its challenge to stop nurses decision

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Speaker 2: to grant licenses to five electricity trading companies, and this

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Speaker 2: really gets to the heart of whether ESKIM is sort

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Speaker 2: of part of reform or against it. But you say

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Speaker 2: in court it's still going ahead with that challenge. What

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Speaker 2: do you believe they're really doing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, looks ESCAM say that they wanted to put a

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Speaker 3: stay on this legal action, but some of the traders

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Speaker 3: placed them in a situation where they basically put them

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Speaker 3: a demand to say you must either stop your legal

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Speaker 3: proceedings or you must proceed with your legal proceedings. And

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Speaker 3: they didn't give ESCOME the option of staying the legal proceedings.

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Speaker 3: But of course that is strongly denied by some of

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Speaker 3: the traders themselves, who say that they were never approached

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Speaker 3: for a stay and that the court proceedings showed that

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Speaker 3: ESCOM never approached the court for a stay and that

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Speaker 3: I mean, there are suggestions, and I'm just putting it

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Speaker 3: out there, not necessarily saying that, you know, I agree

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Speaker 3: or disagree with these things, but there are suggestions that

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Speaker 3: is doing two things, deliberately creating a significant uncertainty which

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Speaker 3: slows down the ability of traders to get money from

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Speaker 3: banks and to enter into contracts with IPP generators and

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Speaker 3: to sell power to off takers. In other words, this

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Speaker 3: action this creates sufficient uncertainty.

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Speaker 1: To really block the emergence of these traders, which I

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Speaker 1: believe is a very important part of the solution to

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Speaker 1: South Africa's problems going forward. The other suggestion is that

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Speaker 1: ESKAM is doing this as a tactic whilst whilst you know,

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Speaker 1: the trading rules are being developed by nurser and nurse

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Speaker 1: process of developing these rules, and in fact the Minister

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Speaker 1: actually encouraged ESCLAM to put a stay on this legal

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Speaker 1: action so that these rules could be expedited, and the

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Speaker 1: ESKIM had identified the lack of these rules as being

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Speaker 1: the problem, and so by continuing this legal action, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of influencing the negotiating theopment of these rules, which

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Speaker 1: is an industry collaborative effort with a regulator. Uh and

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Speaker 1: and Eskam is playing a very domineering role basically saying,

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Speaker 1: if I don't get my way in terms of these rules,

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Speaker 1: we go ahead with a legal action and we delay

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Speaker 1: the whole trading business for years. And it is possible

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Speaker 1: to stall the whole process for years. Legal action, as

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Speaker 1: we've seen with Zooma and his stell and gred techniques

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Speaker 1: can actually delay things for many, many years, and.

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Speaker 3: That would not be in South Africa's interests at all.

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Speaker 2: Chrissy Allen thanks very much, indeed, the energy analyst and

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Speaker 2: journalist to appreciate the time on The Money Show twenty

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Speaker 2: minutes after six.

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Speaker 4: The Money Show on sevens Monday till Friday six to

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Speaker 4: a pm, A important business day.

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Speaker 2: Today, SARS is confirmed it's now bringing in what's called

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Speaker 2: an advanced pricing Agreement system that will deal with transfer

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Speaker 2: pricing this year. Transfer pricing des I understand it normally

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Speaker 2: occurs when different parts of companies in different countries conduct

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Speaker 2: transactions between themselves, Institutions like SARS need to make sure

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Speaker 2: each country gets its fair share of tax. Professor Keith

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Speaker 2: Engel is the CEO at the South African Institute of Taxation.

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Speaker 2: Keith good evening, how difficult is transfer pricing for institutions

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Speaker 2: like SAUCE to deal with?

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Speaker 4: I think transfer pricing is one of the most complicated

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Speaker 4: areas of the tax law for both tax payers and

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Speaker 4: the revenue service. And for your readers who know about

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Speaker 4: transfer pricing, this is what the price that's set between

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Speaker 4: a domestic and a foreign company, both of which are

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Speaker 4: part of a general group. And one thing tax people

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Speaker 4: have trouble doing is setting what is a realistic price

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Speaker 4: and setting determining price from an academic point of view

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Speaker 4: is extremely difficult. So no, it's a difficult thing to do,

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Speaker 4: and that's why it takes so much effort to make

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Speaker 4: to clean it up on both sides.

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Speaker 2: When sauce it says it's bringing in an advanced pricing

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Speaker 2: agreement system, what does that normally mean and what kind

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Speaker 2: of agreement would SAUCE be looking at with companies?

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Speaker 4: Well, generally, what happens in cases of transfer pricing is

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Speaker 4: you're fighting about in a simple case, important export what

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Speaker 4: the pricing is. And pricing makes the big difference on

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Speaker 4: your tax. If you overprice an underprice, you can adjust

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Speaker 4: your tax quite a bit. So generally the way it's

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Speaker 4: done is that SARS you will put down what you

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Speaker 4: think is proper, and SARS can come in later and

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Speaker 4: say they disagree, and in the normal case the dispute follows.

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Speaker 4: What SARS is trying to do here is they're actually

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Speaker 4: lending out a helping hand to the taxpayer and saying, look,

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Speaker 4: rather than create a lot of uncertainty, you can come

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Speaker 4: forward in advanced way and you can give us the

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Speaker 4: number that you think is correct, and we will check

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Speaker 4: it and agree or disagree or adjust. That way we

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Speaker 4: can you can set and be trustworthy on the price

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Speaker 4: for us. We can see what you're doing. And similarly,

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Speaker 4: the taxpayer knows that if he puts down a price,

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Speaker 4: it will be affirmed. So it's a way of setting

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Speaker 4: a price so that people don't have a dispute later.

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Speaker 2: Is that what other tax authorities do? I mean, is

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Speaker 2: there a sort of model for this?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: There is.

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Speaker 4: I think when you have to deal with trans for pricing,

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Speaker 4: a lot of the better revenue authorities are able to

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Speaker 4: deal with this. It takes a lot of time and

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Speaker 4: you know a long way to go, but it's something

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Speaker 4: that you do to help taxpayers out and to get information.

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Speaker 4: It's really a quid pro quo, and you'll find this

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Speaker 4: is quite popular in Western Europe, the United States. Some

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Speaker 4: are key Commonwealth countries, but countries that lack capacity may

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Speaker 4: say they have it. They'll set up the rules and

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Speaker 4: they don't capacitate. SOARS has worked for a few years

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Speaker 4: to set up the rules, and now they're making this

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Speaker 4: determined effort to actually put people in there and get

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Speaker 4: the job done.

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Speaker 2: I would imagine it also helps you with your estimates.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you can find yourself embroiled in a series

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Speaker 2: of disputes with some big tax pays and multinationals I imagine

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Speaker 2: what tend to be big tex pays. You don't always

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Speaker 2: know what the outcome of those disputes is going to be,

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Speaker 2: and thus you don't really know how much money you're

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Speaker 2: going to get every year. This would smooth all of

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Speaker 2: that out.

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Speaker 4: Well, this smooths it out in a particular area, so

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Speaker 4: you'll find that, you know, in less complicated areas, but

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Speaker 4: they're not so that oftentimes you can get an advanced ruling.

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Speaker 4: Like if you're taking a position on something and you're

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Speaker 4: not sure whether stars will accept it, you can go

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Speaker 4: in advance and say, look, this is our position. Is

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Speaker 4: this acceptable? And that way it can you can you

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Speaker 4: can assure that your estimates on tax will be correct.

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Speaker 4: Similarly here, if you have a pricing issue and you're

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Speaker 4: not certain you then if you get certainty, you can

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Speaker 4: give a proper estimate.

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Speaker 6: But it isn't across the board.

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Speaker 4: It's only for selective things.

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Speaker 2: I would imagine you say it's a technical area. The

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Speaker 2: companies themselves are going to spend millions on tax experts

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Speaker 2: because it'll save them billions in the longer run. How

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Speaker 2: expensive are the tax experts that SARS needs to bring.

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Speaker 2: To put it another way, you don't want to bring

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Speaker 2: a knife to a gunfight. You need to spend quite

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Speaker 2: a lot of money on the right gun.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. I mean, I think it's this is

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Speaker 4: always the issue. To be quite honest with you, many

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Speaker 4: taxpayers feel they're only bringing the knife fight and SARS

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Speaker 4: is bring the gun, and then SARS fields they have

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Speaker 4: the knives and the other guys have the gun. So

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Speaker 4: in your very very big company, SARS will be faked.

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Speaker 4: We can easily be outmatched. We do have in South

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Speaker 4: Africa a transfer pricing team of a certain amount. They

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Speaker 4: have been rebuilding since the losses of the Manyani era,

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Speaker 4: but it is a small core group, but it is

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Speaker 4: very expensive and getting nine new people it's going to

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Speaker 4: take a little bit. I mean, in transfer pricing, there's

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Speaker 4: no more than one hundred, one hundred and fifty experts

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Speaker 4: in the country. But there are people you can get

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Speaker 4: fur that are somewhat reasonably priced, and I guess SARS

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Speaker 4: has the revenue that they've got to put toward it.

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Speaker 4: But it's not just a matter of these advanced pricing agreements.

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Speaker 4: It's also about litigating. So it's cheaper to work together

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Speaker 4: with all your cards open than have an endless dispute.

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Speaker 4: So the goal is to spend the money here and

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Speaker 4: get for the better fit for a company as they

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Speaker 4: have certainty, and if they're less aggressive, they'll get a

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Speaker 4: certainty rather than being aggressive and then you have a

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Speaker 4: big fight. But yes, this is a difficult area all

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Speaker 4: over the world.

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Speaker 2: In order to fund profess a key thing. Oh thanks

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Speaker 2: so much, Chief executive officer at the South African Institute

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Speaker 2: of a Taxation twenty six minutes now after six The

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Speaker 2: Money Show the Market. Anthony Mottosani is a senior equity

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Speaker 2: sales trader at ABSs CIB Good to see you, Anthony.

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Speaker 2: Happy twenty twenty six. I think it's going to be

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Speaker 2: as wild as twenty twenty five. An update. One of

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Speaker 2: the first corporate updates from there is a platinum. They're

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Speaker 2: predicting that platinum prices will be where they are or

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Speaker 2: higher for much of twenty twenty six. I think most

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Speaker 2: of us think they'll be higher.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Stephen, thanks, good to be an appy year to

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Speaker 5: you and your team. Yeah, definitely. We're just in an

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Speaker 5: environment that supports of your precious mettals and particularly gold

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Speaker 5: being the one that's leading the charge at the moment

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Speaker 5: for of his reasons that have always been discussed on

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Speaker 5: the show. So yes, I do think they're actually going

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Speaker 5: to be higher for times it being, I don't think

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Speaker 5: there's much in the way of them going high at

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Speaker 5: this point in time.

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Speaker 2: Oil prices going up. They jumped about a dollar at

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Speaker 2: one point today went to sixty five dollars fifty last

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Speaker 2: time I checked I'm presuming that's because of the situation

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Speaker 2: in Iran.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, son, And I'm sure a lot of people

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Speaker 5: have seen the post that Donald Trump just made around

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Speaker 5: saying sort of you know, Americans need to evacuate and

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Speaker 5: telling the protesters to carry on. And I think maybe

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Speaker 5: what's also just sparked a bit of concern that maybe

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Speaker 5: the US might get involved, is that help is on

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Speaker 5: the way, as you said, signed Donald J.

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Speaker 2: Trump. The problem is, no one in Iran can read

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Speaker 2: that there's an it's in it blackout. Doesn't matter whether

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Speaker 2: you're a MA American or Iranian, no one will know.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I mean it's it's interesting times that really

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Speaker 5: looking through sometimes I have to pitch myself to make

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Speaker 5: sure we are alive. So yeah, I mean it is

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Speaker 5: a very interesting situation. And I think that's also you know,

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Speaker 5: if we just feed it back to markets, look at

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Speaker 5: the gold price, it's four thousand, six hundred dollars an ounce,

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Speaker 5: and you're having some of the big global banks and

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Speaker 5: by the end of the spurts that gold's going to

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Speaker 5: be back five thousand. Gold's going to go to a

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Speaker 5: bigger part in five thousand dollars per So you know,

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Speaker 5: if we pull it back to markets and look at

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Speaker 5: what's what that's meant for our equity markets. Top forty

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Speaker 5: index has looked luck fared pretty well, but that's a

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Speaker 5: larger Gold and Platinum Group minners story where your domestics

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Speaker 5: really haven't come to the party yet.

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Speaker 2: It's astonishing how quickly gold has moved. And I say

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Speaker 2: that because at the end of last year some people

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Speaker 2: were saying gold will hit five thousand dollars per year

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Speaker 2: end the end of twenty twenty six. Now we're talking

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Speaker 2: two months time.

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Speaker 5: That's how quickly Donald can change a narrative.

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Speaker 2: We don't yet know how our retail chains did over

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Speaker 2: the Christmas period. We'll start to get the verse hints

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Speaker 2: of that next week. Is it possible to get have

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Speaker 2: any kind of sense of expectations to what we'll get.

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Speaker 5: So, I mean, we've had sort of some merchant data

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Speaker 5: that you know, you've been able to sort of analyze.

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Speaker 5: It looks like Blackfrid there wasn't anything to get overly

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Speaker 5: excited about. From that sort of data that's been published.

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Speaker 5: It looks, you know, if anything's even shoppers are shopping down.

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Speaker 5: There were more free contransactions rather than you know, like

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Speaker 5: splurgeon as per se, I must admit to the malls

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Speaker 5: that seem busier, but maybe it was more window shopping

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Speaker 5: than anything else. So I think there's a high hurdle

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Speaker 5: rate because I think your investors, your institution investors, are

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Speaker 5: stuck in this conundrum. If you don't want to let

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Speaker 5: go of your gold exposure and PGUM exposure, you know,

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Speaker 5: your retailers have really got to come in and do

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Speaker 5: something quite spectacular. I don't quite know if that's going

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Speaker 5: to be the case when you get these updates.

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Speaker 2: I mean we've seen last week retail share suddenly had

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Speaker 2: a very good day. There was a note from one

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Speaker 2: of the banks that you should be sort of overweight

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Speaker 2: on South African retail on paper, I mean you should

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Speaker 2: have some shop right, and you should have some of

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Speaker 2: that in your portfolio. The question is, of course which

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Speaker 2: ones and how much?

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Speaker 5: No exactly, So I mean you know it's going to

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Speaker 5: be defensive. It's going to be the ones that you

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Speaker 5: know appealed to the mark where the market's sort of

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Speaker 5: migrating and how they're shopping. So that's your PEP core.

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Speaker 5: Those sort of stocks I think will perform pretty well

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Speaker 5: and are sort of safer places to sort of play

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Speaker 5: at this point in time. But you know it's I

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Speaker 5: think people are going to for the data. There's no

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Speaker 5: point trying to get ahead of the sitness point.

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Speaker 2: Anthony mo Desani, thanks so much, senior equity sales trader

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Speaker 2: at ABSs CIB really do appreciate it. Lots to look

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Speaker 2: for too. With those retail figures, there will tell us

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Speaker 2: quite a bit qual at, quite a bit about our economy.

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Speaker 2: You have the Money Show just one six thirty seven two.

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Speaker 2: Stephen's on the Money Show six to eight pm, seventeen

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Speaker 2: minutes to seven the time. I don't mean to be

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Speaker 2: you rude to you man United fans. Just John Meathan

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Speaker 2: Cape Talk obviously, the Communication Risk Information Center, which represents

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Speaker 2: cell phone networks, saying this week that cyber crime is

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Speaker 2: costing our operators more than five billion rand last year

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Speaker 2: and this is particularly around hacking attempts and I presume

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Speaker 2: issues around infrastructure as well. Now I don't know how

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Speaker 2: you feel about your cell phone operator, but five point

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Speaker 2: three billion rand is a ton of money. Dokazzani and

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Speaker 2: Velase is the CEO of the Communication Risk Information Center. Dokazzani,

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Speaker 2: good evening and thanks for your time. What kind of

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Speaker 2: crime are you talking about here? Is it mostly the

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Speaker 2: kind of hacking attacks that other industries suffer from as well?

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Speaker 7: You're quite correct and evening to you and also your listeners.

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Speaker 7: Cyber crime comes in many forms, and some of the

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Speaker 7: forms including the cyber attacks. It's one of those where

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Speaker 7: I always say, there's a lot of attempts that have

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Speaker 7: happened on our various network corporators, but the cost of

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Speaker 7: also the security to make sure that we prevent any

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Speaker 7: catastrophic effect, we had to put not just resources and

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Speaker 7: investment and make sure that there's a secured network, but

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Speaker 7: also what we encounter as well is some of the

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Speaker 7: cyber attacks that are more fraud related types of cyber

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Speaker 7: attacks that just probably from a revenue and service disruptions

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Speaker 7: can affect their network corporators, but also indirectly affects the

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Speaker 7: customers as well because we the particularly from the mobile operators.

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Speaker 7: Mobile devices are used to communicate various types of frauds

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Speaker 7: which come in from of cyber attacks. So as the industry,

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Speaker 7: we do experience some of these, but we also coordinate

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Speaker 7: efforts to make sure that we prevent the catastrophic effect

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Speaker 7: of these cyber attacks.

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Speaker 2: Has there been a real change in the intensity of

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Speaker 2: these attacks. I mean, it seems to have happened quite quickly,

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Speaker 2: and I know it's happened quite quickly in other industries.

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Speaker 7: So what we've seen is that the attempts that usually

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Speaker 7: happens because the nature of cybercrime changes it from every

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Speaker 7: day every second, So you think you have the controls right,

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Speaker 7: but what we've seen in the cyber criminals, they try

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Speaker 7: something else again, and we always have to be on

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Speaker 7: our toes and also do a lot of benchmark so

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Speaker 7: that we can see what also happens in other global

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Speaker 7: industries as well, and also might not just be in

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Speaker 7: the telecoms industry, but it might be other associated industries.

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Speaker 7: One thing that is critical is that everyone knows if

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Speaker 7: I take a telecommunication network, the access of information that

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Speaker 7: could be access and what it can be used for

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Speaker 7: could be catastrophic. So we always get attends and they're

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Speaker 7: not always successful. I think that's why when you always

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Speaker 7: see tribly. Last day, they've been probably two of our

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Speaker 7: members that had reported some incidences, but also those incidences

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Speaker 7: were sort of not catastrophic. But what we've seen is

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Speaker 7: that we daily do encounter different attacks in different forms

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Speaker 7: that come globally because also it's not jurisdictional yshow cybercrime

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Speaker 7: it can be coming from anywhere in the world.

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Speaker 2: So I was gonna ask, I mean, you represent an

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Speaker 2: organization that is really the self AE network operators and

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Speaker 2: a couple of other people in similar industries who are

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Speaker 2: working together on issues like this, and we get to

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Speaker 2: why that's important in just the moment because there's but

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Speaker 2: are you working with other people in other countries as well?

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Speaker 2: I kind of feel if there's one group of people

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Speaker 2: who might be able to do something about us about this,

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Speaker 2: it is the kind of global communications industry because it

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Speaker 2: will require a massive global effort and at some point

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Speaker 2: probably in nation states.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we do.

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Speaker 7: Actually we do have also relations and we've interacted with

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Speaker 7: Interpol last year because when we look at the Interpol

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Speaker 7: presence and the types of cyber crimes that they see

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Speaker 7: in the network corporator, So we do interact with them

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Speaker 7: because also what they were able to do, we were

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Speaker 7: able to identify if there's any new forms of cyber

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Speaker 7: crimes that are coming. We also work with the international

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Speaker 7: industry associations like GSMA, where we also are able to

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Speaker 7: see what happens in the global so we do interact

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Speaker 7: very close with the global community because it's like I said,

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Speaker 7: it's a non jurisdictional type of form of a crime

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Speaker 7: and you can't try and do it alone. And also

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Speaker 7: when I said not doing it alone, even our sea locally,

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Speaker 7: it's important for network corporators to coordinate the efforts. And

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Speaker 7: that's why one of the other thing now we're doing,

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Speaker 7: we want to work with government and make sure that

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Speaker 7: as a country, we also need to be able to

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Speaker 7: say where is our cyber crime strategy, how is it

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Speaker 7: being deployed, Because we don't see this only in our industry,

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Speaker 7: we see it across various industries. But as a country

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Speaker 7: we need to have a stance. But we need to

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Speaker 7: have a coordinated effort across various industries. And also this

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Speaker 7: might require the exchange of some of the data that

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Speaker 7: can prevent us to have catastrophic effects. So these are

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Speaker 7: the important roles of making sure that we have collaboration,

437
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 7: identify the right thaughtness locally and globally that can help

438
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 7: you stem this increasing crime. Because it's not going to

439
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 7: change soon that I can assure you. We will see

440
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 7: different attempts this year because it's a global phenomenon that

441
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 7: is creating a problem. So we are watching every day

442
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 7: and making sure that as much as possible we are

443
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 7: able to prevent sort that you and I can still

444
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 7: have uninterrupted service.

445
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: Is there a risk of a sort of cascade here? So, yes,

446
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 2: the cell phone networks compete against each other, but they're

447
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: all interconnected. Otherwise the whole thing doesn't work. So if

448
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: one of them gets breached, can you certainly find we

449
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: actually have a national catastrophe because they all go down

450
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 2: for some reason or they're all at risk for some reason.

451
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think they are all at risk, and that's

452
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 7: why through combric the reason why combrig was formed, so

453
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 7: that there's that collaboration effort so that what they can

454
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 7: do in one network corporator, we can prevent it from

455
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 7: being cascaded.

456
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 6: And that's one of the.

457
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 7: Efforts that the network operator tales due to come together,

458
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 7: so we do that risk is always there, but the

459
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 7: efforts that we put in to make sure that the

460
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 7: coordination efforts also plays the roles have sort of helped

461
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 7: us so far. But we're not out of the woods.

462
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 7: It's one of the things that I always say, because

463
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 7: we are that industry that has information that is sought

464
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 7: after and we have to make sure that we protect.

465
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 7: It's also each of national security if the telecommunication industry is.

466
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 2: Downe No, absolutely because Aani and Velasi, thanks so much,

467
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 2: the CEO of the Communication Risk Information Center. I mean,

468
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 2: I just still couldn't believe the number five point three

469
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 2: billion rand in one year. And it shows you how

470
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 2: well resourced the hacking groups are and how difficult they

471
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: are to deal with. And we know, of course because

472
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: they're global, that makes it so much tougher. And that's

473
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 2: the point I was really making is that at some

474
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 2: point it's going to require some kind of real international

475
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 2: sort of coordinated operation that would involve you know, and

476
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: the US and Russia all working together. Yeah, I know

477
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: that was my thought. Two nine minutes to seven.

478
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 8: The Money Show with Stephen Quetis is brought to you

479
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 8: by ABS as cib a Pan African bank invested in

480
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 8: your story and the potential it can unlock because your

481
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 8: story matters after as the rastered FSP.

482
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: Seven ministers seven on the Money Shows seven two seven

483
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: oh two one seven oh two. Well news today that

484
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 2: the port of Maputo in Mozambique grew their volumes by

485
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 2: over three point four percent in twenty twenty five. Their

486
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 2: rail volumes in fact were up by seventeen percent. And

487
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: I kind of have a sense that this might be

488
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 2: South Africa's year of ports. I mean, not quite as

489
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 2: exciting as South Africa's year of ending load shetting, but

490
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 2: it still matters. I mean, Peer two at Durban Harbor

491
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: is being run by the International Private Operator ICTCSI. Unati

492
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 2: Sornti is executive Chair of the Maritime Business Chamber UNATI.

493
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 2: Good evening, good to talk again, Maputo seems to be growing.

494
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: Is a lot of that coming from business. Our ports

495
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 2: would normally be handling if we hadn't had so many

496
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: problems over the last couple of years.

497
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 9: Indeed, indeed, good evenings liven, Yes it did. You would

498
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 9: note that Maputre has benefited from quite a number of

499
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 9: issues when it comes to the certificant parts, in particular

500
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 9: from the debret pot and also what has also helped

501
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 9: them is you know, their private public partnership that resulted

502
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 9: to MPTS.

503
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that seems to be a big difference

504
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: in a way. I presume it's an interesting blueprint for

505
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: what's happening at per two.

506
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 9: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, but we are hoping that

507
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 9: it could reach you know, to that level with what

508
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 9: they have done decisions because remember what what is good

509
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 9: and because of they've got one of you know, the

510
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 9: world's biggest pot opera Eta, which is a tpls that

511
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 9: are running as part of that partnership, they decisions are

512
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 9: taken very quicker. We are hoping that that could then

513
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 9: be the issue when it comes to the peer two

514
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 9: at the pot of Devin.

515
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: As I understand it, and please check my logic here

516
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: because you'll know it better than I do. But Icetosign

517
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 2: now has operational control of Pierre tur must point out

518
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: Transcend still owns it okay on the land, but they

519
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: have operational control. They've got it for twenty five years.

520
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: So I'm presuming then the more quickly they invest, the

521
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: more quickly they upgrade the cranes, the more quickly there'll

522
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 2: be more volumes going through and the more money they

523
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: will make. Am I right then in saying that they

524
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: have every incentive to get moving very quickly.

525
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 9: Indeed that would be the intention, But like I said,

526
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 9: majority of the things would still rely in terms of

527
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 9: you know, around the port itself with development there, so

528
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 9: the infrastructure and all these things, if then there's a

529
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 9: quick and around in bringing them around and also you know,

530
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 9: commissioning the new equipment today, that would now yield to

531
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 9: better results in terms of patrict would also depend because

532
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 9: remember there would still be an element where there is

533
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 9: still a use you know of from local you know,

534
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 9: port handlers in that. If then the attitude is still

535
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 9: the same in terms of the time and how they

536
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 9: you know, they deal with all these issues, then we

537
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 9: may still be faced with the same thing even though

538
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 9: we've got now a private operator.

539
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: So I mean, I would like to think by the

540
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: end of the year, maybe a little sooner, things will

541
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: be moving a lot more quickly. I mean, obviously there

542
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 2: are the issues that need to sort out the rail

543
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: connections and things like that, but all of that to

544
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: be moving very fast.

545
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 9: Indeed, you would you would know, it's part of the

546
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 9: things that you know, the part of Maputo was you know,

547
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 9: has made them to be worthy are outside of gaining

548
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 9: from all the you know inefficiencies that we have seen

549
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 9: that delays the congestions you know from the South African ports. Indeed,

550
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 9: it has always been the infrastructure, the upgrade of the

551
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 9: rail networks making sure that there's connection. So with the

552
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 9: trim program as well in South Africa, that may see

553
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 9: you know, some change in terms of heaving also private

554
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 9: operators you know coming in into the rail space.

555
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: When we look at the situation in Cape Town and

556
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: it's quite different, but there are improvements on the way

557
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: there too. But they have such a big wind issue.

558
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I was amazed to hear and we spoke

559
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: about it on The Money Show last week they lost

560
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: thirty export days because of strong winds. Now, when you've

561
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: got winds blowing at one hundred kilometers an hour at

562
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: the port, you can't load anything. No equipment in the

563
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: world is safe to do that in I mean, is

564
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: that going to force customers to go elsewhere if the

565
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: winds stay like that?

566
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 9: Indeed, not just you know, the customers that are buying,

567
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 9: it will also force some of you know, the fruit

568
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 9: industry as well to see how then they then now

569
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 9: start to look at where they are able to move,

570
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 9: you know, they are calco and of which we've seen

571
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 9: I think it was twenty twenty four where we've seen

572
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 9: there was a great move you know from the South

573
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 9: African side where majority of that CaCO was being moved,

574
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 9: you know, via Namibia. And that's what will happen if

575
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 9: then our pots were unable to come up with technologies

576
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 9: and ways of how do we deal you know with

577
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 9: the wind issues which are calling sarast relays.

578
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 2: Do you have a sensornati of where we might be

579
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: in five years time? I mean, I see a real

580
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: political will to fix things. Big decisions have been made,

581
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: decisions that would never have been made ten years ago.

582
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 2: You'd never have had the privatization appear two ten years ago,

583
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: but it's moved really very quickly. Five years from now

584
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: things looking a lot better. Is Maputa going to be

585
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: having a conversation about how do we get the business

586
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: back from South Africa?

587
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 9: With the rate of how we are going? You know,

588
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 9: as a South African, I'm very much you know, optimistic,

589
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 9: optimistic about that. But with the rate that we are going,

590
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 9: you know, most of the countries that have really rallied

591
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 9: behind and taken you know, the Ocean's economists areas. There's

592
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 9: certain things that have been put in place in terms

593
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 9: of decision making and all these things where either you know,

594
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 9: if you look in terms of the continent itself, there's

595
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 9: now your Blue economy. You know, ministries that are specifically

596
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 9: looking at these things. There's also you know that the

597
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 9: converting of a maritime safety authority to become a maritime

598
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 9: authority so that we are able to travel these things

599
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 9: where there is a collaboration between the port authority and

600
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 9: the maritime authority waken together. So if we if we

601
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 9: can change those things like like right now, I can

602
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 9: tell you last year South Africa, in November, we got

603
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 9: a seat in the im OH that only was something

604
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 9: that was being praised by the Department of Transport that

605
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 9: understands March time itself. And a seat in the IMO

606
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 9: is like a seat in the in the in the

607
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 9: U N Security Council. And if then you know, government

608
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 9: was out about that. For me, I am still worried

609
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 9: in terms of what will happen in terms of Marcame

610
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 9: or the oceans Econombi. And so we no longer have

611
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 9: the same you know, vibe and the energy that we

612
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 9: had when Will were speaking about operation parties up in

613
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 9: twenty fourteen.

614
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: Very interesting, right, or Nati, thank you. When I watch

615
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: this closely through the year on natis Saornty is the

616
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: executive chair of the Maritime Business Chamber. In a moment,

617
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: we'll talk about Africanization and our business schools. You at

618
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: the Money Show seven o'clock. Stephens has gone x at

619
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: at Stephen Krutiz News today of a fascinating report suggesting

620
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: our business schools need to break away from what the

621
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: authors suggests are colonial structures of education and basically testing

622
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: sort of Western methods in Africa to something else than

623
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: the reports is there should be true transformation that would

624
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: include more collaboration with industry and that without change, our

625
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: business schools will simply reproduce managerial elites. It's been written

626
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: by the bio professor Marie Cadbe and Professor Imortepe unfortunately

627
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: not available to talk to us tonight. We are going

628
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: to keep trying them a particularly make contact with professor Kdebe,

629
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 2: but he is unable to speak to us this evening.

630
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: John Foster Pedley is the Denon director of the Hindley

631
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 2: Business School Africa. John, good evening, and thanks for agreeing

632
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 2: to speak to us about this. Do you agree that

633
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 2: our business schools need to change? They need to be

634
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 2: I suppose more reflective of where they are in the world.

635
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 10: Yeah.

636
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: I really do.

637
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 10: Actually, I mean I think that we have to be

638
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 10: careful that we don't shift a dialogue about you know,

639
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 10: all our business schools the westernis and models from the

640
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 10: West until we've got to Africanize everything. The reality is

641
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 10: that what we need is to build business schools that

642
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 10: work in our contexts, and our contexts is both South

643
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 10: African Intra African.

644
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: A lot of a contry with.

645
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 10: The act for an Agoa and all that building up,

646
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 10: but also that can engage with the world. We want

647
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 10: to build Africa all the world to engage with the world,

648
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 10: not to have our own EGA chambers as well. So

649
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 10: there's a lot of change to be done, and we

650
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 10: need to start developing our own models that reflect these

651
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 10: sort of strategies and process have been successful in the

652
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 10: global South rather than just thinking about the North. But

653
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 10: it's rather over simplistic to say all business schools use

654
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 10: Western models. They don't because business schools are so varied

655
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 10: around the world. Asian ones and the Indian ones are

656
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 10: really dynamic, fascinating and have a different approach. But we

657
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 10: certainly need to be more ambitious and see business schools

658
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 10: as an engine, a powerful engine of growth for organizations

659
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 10: and to lift the home.

660
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a suggestion in the reporters I understand

661
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 2: that business schools should be more activist and entrepreneurial, and

662
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: that kind of would make sense to me because I

663
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: think that is kind of what African societies often are

664
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: because they need to be, because people need to change things,

665
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: to improve things and need to sort of start it

666
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: on their own rather than to do what anyone coming

667
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 2: out of business schools in North America does, which is

668
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: just look for a managerial job.

669
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, we haven't got those jobs, have we, And so

670
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 10: we need to generate a bunch of people who build

671
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 10: companies and organizations that will create the jobs. And to

672
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 10: do that, they've got to have the go getting the ability.

673
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 10: They've also got to have a sense of confidence and capability.

674
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 10: Because interestingly enough, you can learn a lot about entrepreneurial theory,

675
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 10: it doesn't make you an entrepreneur anymore than studying art

676
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 10: theory makes you're an artists. So you have to be practical.

677
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 10: So our methods have to be practical, they have to

678
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 10: be embedded, they've got to be experiential. But they've also

679
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 10: got to be confidence building, and we've got to give

680
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 10: people challenges they can succeed, and people need to really

681
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 10: get a sense of themselves. We're not somewhere stuck down

682
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 10: here in Africa living up to the world. Quite the opposite.

683
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 10: Our talent is extraordinary and we have the data to

684
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 10: prove that of people succeeding internationally on our peer reviews exams,

685
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 10: as well as people in Europe or anywhere else. So

686
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 10: we have all the capability of need. So the schools

687
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 10: need to reflect that. And not only that. We talk

688
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 10: about decolonizing the syllabus, which I think we must, but

689
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 10: what's really colonial is the structure of our universities and

690
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 10: the structure of our thinking about how to learn. You know,

691
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 10: we need to create learning environments that are far more dynamic,

692
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 10: that reach people easier, that help people who haven't got

693
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 10: twenty to fifteen years of really sordid schooling but have

694
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 10: come to a very factored schooling environment. Only five out

695
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 10: of one hundred school starters in South Africa get a

696
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 10: degree within five years of leading school. That's appalling. So

697
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 10: we've got to give a possibility to success for people

698
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 10: who haven't got that strong formation. But that means we've

699
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 10: got to innovate in our methods and we've got to

700
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 10: be really engaged in employability and what a new economy

701
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 10: will look like. And that means we've got to undo

702
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 10: sort of the structures we have in a way we

703
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 10: have a thinking about structures. It makes no more agile,

704
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 10: more pragmatic, more practical, and way more empowered and giving

705
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 10: access to people than we have at the moment.

706
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: There's a kind of deeper philosophical question which maybe doesn't

707
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 2: work well on radio. But let me put it to you,

708
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: which is business the same for all human beings everywhere?

709
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 2: Or is it different? And now, I mean we spoke

710
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 2: about a book. We we did a book review earlier

711
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: in the week about the book Africanomics, which you know,

712
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 2: what the West has got wrong about Africa. Now it's

713
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: one thing to say the West has got it wrong,

714
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: but the business, I think many people might think, well,

715
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: you know, so many businesses operate in China and the

716
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: US and India and Russia and parts of Africa, and

717
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: they do that quite successfully. So business is universal. This

718
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 2: report and plenty of other people disagree quite strongly on that.

719
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's a classic debate that are going on for

720
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 10: a long time. Let's africanize, let's South americanize, let's I

721
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 10: don't know, Polish eye, let's indianize whatever we're doing. And

722
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 10: there is that very legitimate dialogue going on, but it's

723
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 10: not complex enough. It doesn't reflect reality. Business has a

724
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 10: few basic points about it. You try and find out

725
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 10: what people already need to try and make it. You

726
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 10: make it in a way that add value to their lives,

727
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 10: and you do it in a way that gives you

728
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 10: enough money coming back that allows you to, you know,

729
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 10: support your business and continue to innovate and pay talent

730
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 10: to come and come.

731
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 2: And work for you.

732
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 10: So those elements are the same, but of course there

733
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 10: are many different contexts. I mean, here's an analogy. I

734
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 10: was in India recently, and if traffic's mad, you know,

735
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 10: you've got buses, cars, taxis, you know, tanks, almost children, bicyclists, motorcycles,

736
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 10: goats and cars all on the same road with no rules.

737
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 10: Ethical works, And you can't apply the same rules as

738
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 10: you would in Germany to that traffic. It just wouldn't work.

739
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 10: But they have different ways of working. So the strategy

740
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 10: models we use in complex variable organizations need to be

741
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 10: thought through. So we need to build models that work

742
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 10: in the global cells spread them across the global cells

743
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 10: and understand how people work in less rule bound industries

744
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 10: or environments and yet are successful. I'm not thinking you

745
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 10: can just impose, what you know, a model that's been

746
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 10: working in Northern Canada or UK or somewhere else do that.

747
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 10: So we have to do that work, and we're not

748
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 10: doing it yet.

749
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: Academic institutions, as many people will point out at this moment,

750
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 2: are often resistant to change. Academics are resistant to change.

751
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: It's one thing to put out a report, start a conversation,

752
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 2: all very good. Is there a real appetite for change?

753
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 2: And I wonder if, in fact you might find the

754
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 2: appetite among some of the students of prospective students more

755
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: than the academics at these institutions.

756
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 10: Well, I think that's very true, isn't it. Academic institutions,

757
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 10: like any institutions, they build up a sort of you know,

758
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 10: all the infrastructure that's very hard to change, you know,

759
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 10: both intellectual infrastructure jobs. People have been made successful because

760
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 10: they've been very good academics, but you know, where is

761
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 10: the drive for change and evolution in those And academic

762
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 10: institutions can be particularly sticky in terms of unwilling to change,

763
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 10: and the trouble is that they become irrelevant quite quickly

764
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 10: if they don't do that, and then they start defending

765
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 10: their turf instead have been really assertive about developing, and

766
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 10: then competition and privates and all other online optans will

767
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 10: come in and people think our institutions are being destroyed.

768
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 10: I think they've been destroyed from within. And I think

769
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 10: what we need to do is encourage people who can

770
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 10: evolve our institutions to be really relevant and produce the

771
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 10: skills we need to produce. Employal graduates to focus not

772
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 10: on the input but the output. We need to have

773
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 10: people coming out who can manage, who can use money well,

774
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 10: who understand that corruption is absolutely destructive to any possible

775
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 10: future for the country and the people who really suffer

776
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 10: other massive people. We need to get people to live

777
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 10: and imbue that in themselves and start saying encourage entrepreneurship,

778
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 10: encouraging new methods. So we really do need to be

779
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 10: encouraging and assertive to change our institutions. I think in

780
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 10: many ways that's where the stickiness starts. But on the

781
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 10: other hand, there are really good things within the universities.

782
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 10: Superb research can come out, you know, real quality individuals

783
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 10: who are extremely ethical, but how do we connect them

784
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 10: to the relevance of society. That's a gap we've got

785
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 10: to break down in order to create vibrancy and job

786
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 10: creation at South Africa.

787
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: I can imagine some young people listening to this. Perhaps

788
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 2: most might say, look, I'd be very, very excited to

789
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 2: go to a business school like that changed things, entrepreneurial, activist, etc.

790
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 2: Some might say, well, actually, what I really want, because

791
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: the economy is so difficult, is the reason my family

792
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: wants me to go to a business school is so

793
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 2: that I can get that corporate job, because that will

794
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 2: will make sure that the family is okay. I suppose

795
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: what I'm saying is the business schools I want to

796
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: be too anti establishment. I'm sort of asking myself what

797
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: I mean by establishment? Is I ask you that question, John, Well,

798
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 2: that's what I.

799
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 10: Was thinking when you're asking it, because you know, every

800
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 10: establishment has a movement, doesn't it. You know, that's how

801
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 10: progress happens. Under Shumpeter's creative destruction approach, you have an establishment,

802
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 10: a but that needs to be creatively destroyed in a

803
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 10: way for something much better to arrive. And if you

804
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 10: don't allow that change to happen. You're stuck with monolithic

805
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 10: institutions to stop delivering value and subtract value. So you

806
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 10: actually do need a continuable flow of Yes, we need structure,

807
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 10: we need predictable employment, we need the professions you know.

808
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 10: So obviously law, accountancy and engineering are critical and really

809
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 10: important career paths to give people that. There's a lot

810
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 10: of backgrounds, there's a lot of skills you need. However,

811
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 10: they're not necessarily the rain makers. The rain makers may

812
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 10: be coming out of very different areas, or there may

813
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 10: be actories who've decided to build wonderful new institutions like

814
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 10: Discovery built by actories, but creative actories. How did you

815
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 10: get that to happen? One of the world leading institutions

816
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 10: field really created by people. You might think we're just

817
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 10: you know, gosh, we're just actually the number crests, they're

818
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 10: not the creative people. That sense of creativity and possibility

819
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 10: is what we've got to build into what we're doing,

820
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 10: and I think it's really hard. I think I feel

821
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 10: very sorry for the university people sometimes at the sector

822
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 10: in there because they're quite stuck in it, and they

823
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 10: are good people within it. But what you need is

824
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 10: a drive, a national drive that makes education an absolute

825
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 10: comperative because how could you possibly grow South Africa with

826
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 10: our real quality education as did Singapore, Career, Vietnam and

827
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 10: the other places that turn things around. We need a

828
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 10: real national focus in education. So it's it's not a

829
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 10: matter of blaming universities. How do we help them evolve

830
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 10: so that we can get what we need to build

831
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 10: South Africa And that is going to be tough. But

832
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 10: as long as you have the vision that we're doing

833
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 10: this for a positive and constructive purpose to create employment

834
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 10: and possibility and better welfare for everybody, then we can

835
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 10: actually go through some of the pain of unbundling and

836
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 10: rebundling forms of education until we get what we really

837
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 10: need and the opportunity for youth is there.

838
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 2: John, thank you so much, really appreciate it, some very

839
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 2: interesting thoughts. John Foster Pedley is the dean and director

840
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: at the Henley Business School, Africa.

841
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 5: Good Money Show, African Business Focus.

842
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 2: And of course doctor Rotendo and Dingrey the founding director

843
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 2: of triub Africa Advisory. Back with us, Rotendo, how's that square?

844
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: A happy new year?

845
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 6: Not too shabby?

846
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 11: Stephen and Beck to being contact with you and back

847
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 11: to being with your with with your show and and

848
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 11: your listeners looking really excited for twenty twenty six.

849
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 5: Men.

850
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I said, I think it's going to be

851
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: a bit exciting in Ghana. They Ghana and the UEE

852
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 2: have signed this big deal to build Africa's largest innovation

853
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: in AI have.

854
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 11: So the excitedest part of the story, Stephen, is that

855
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 11: Ghana as we know, is a very strong base for

856
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 11: commodities with the focus on on on on board. From

857
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 11: an expert perspective, I mean obviously Ashanti gold go good

858
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 11: trip record here. So it continues in terms of trying

859
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 11: to diversify its economy and with the continued focused investment

860
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 11: with regards to technology. This investment specifically, Stephen is it's

861
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 11: partnered up with the UAE to invest one billion US

862
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 11: dollars into an innovation the one we've become the Innovation

863
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 11: Integrated Center. They're supporting this innovation ALPS Stephen, who support

864
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 11: AI digital infrastructure and startups uh and they've partnered with

865
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 11: the Supports Customs and Free Zone the pCFC of the

866
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 11: UAE and obviously in line with this, they're also going

867
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 11: to bring in Microsoft Metail Oracle IBM in alphabet. But

868
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 11: I think the key point here, Stephen is at Dana

869
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 11: is making intentional efforts to position itself. It's taken a

870
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 11: bit of a knock as and economy over the last

871
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 11: few years. But this strategic investment that continues to make

872
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 11: in the technology space is to diversify from dependency on commodities.

873
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 11: We also know coco is a key product that they

874
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 11: also focus on, and diversity into the technology space in

875
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 11: the right direction. So quite look it quite excited in

876
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,240
Speaker 11: terms of where all this upenaw going into the future

877
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 11: for Ghana.

878
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: And then Africa's economy due to expand this year. There

879
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 2: are some risks though, yeah.

880
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,720
Speaker 6: So Stephen, I always look at these stories.

881
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 11: But at the beginning of twenty twenty six, people come

882
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 11: to me and say, you know, what are the aspects

883
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 11: of Africa's economy and the and the highlights are all?

884
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 11: You know, eleven out of the fifteen top growing economies

885
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 11: in Africa in the world are going to be from Africa.

886
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 11: And it's happened again six percent growth when the global

887
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 11: average is three percent. So obviously Africa is going to lead.

888
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 11: The problem, Stephen, is that the quantum is always small,

889
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 11: and sometimes you get carried away with the percentile growth

890
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 11: forgetting the actual quantum and the key countries that are

891
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 11: highlighted for significant growth in the six or plus nine

892
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 11: seven percent area steven are South so down in Guinea, Uganda, Rwanda.

893
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 11: But the problem with this Stephen, they're not the big

894
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 11: and when I took about the Big five, I'm talking

895
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 11: about fifteen percent of Africa's economy is in five key countries,

896
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 11: so Africa, Egypt, Algeria, Ethiopia and Nigeria. The only one

897
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 11: that is going to see a plus a minus seven

898
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 11: percent growth is Ethopia, which is one because we're fifty

899
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 11: four countries and if the other big four don't also

900
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 11: pull their weight in terms of making economical impact, we

901
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 11: won't really see that growth holistically from African perspective. So

902
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 11: I think the upside is when you look at the

903
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 11: sectors that are going to contribute the positive growth, it's agriculture,

904
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 11: the manufacturing area in terms of extractives, but also co processing.

905
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 11: So a lot of the countries like there are see

906
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 11: Zambia that focus on manufacturing are also adding value and

907
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 11: exporting goods that are processes exposed to exporting just raw materials.

908
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 5: But again you have to go.

909
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 11: You know, in the eye of the detail, you know,

910
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 11: the devil is always in the detail stevent and you

911
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 11: can lose out in terms of context, but just by

912
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 11: looking at the global average and you're really need to

913
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 11: focus in terms of the smaller parts.

914
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 6: And that's the key thing when you look at the

915
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 6: forecast for the continent.

916
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 2: And then Karafho they are going to enter Ethiopia and

917
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 2: they're working with an Ethiopian Saudi billionaire.

918
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 11: Merci Berkou, indeed Stephen so Kara for a big French retailer.

919
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 11: They probably got about three thousand outlets globally. In Africa,

920
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 11: they've got about two hundred and fifty. Again, another exciting

921
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 11: story for me. Why Ethiopia has been in the forefront

922
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,720
Speaker 11: in terms of trying to diversify and liberalize its economy.

923
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 11: We saw last year then opening up their stock exchange

924
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,479
Speaker 11: for the first time since nineteen fifty. In this specific story,

925
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 11: Stephen Karafo, he's gone up and teamed up with Sheikh Muhammad,

926
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 11: who's saying al Amodik, who was the Queen's supermarket range

927
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 11: in Ethiopia. He's an Ethiopian born Saudi billionaire. So he's

928
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 11: trying to break something back into Africa. I Thopia has

929
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 11: a population thirty million, so for any retail or FMCG

930
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 11: player there's always opportunity for growth there. They aim to

931
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 11: by twenty fifty. I think Steven tab about thirty outlets

932
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 11: by twenty thirty to thirty outlets in Ethopia. So again,

933
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 11: why is this exciting is that I think the danger is,

934
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 11: you know, with these international players it's so easy for

935
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 11: them to import the stock for their shops, but there's

936
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 11: an opportunity here for the value chain around these thirty

937
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,760
Speaker 11: stores that will be open that from farm to shelf.

938
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 11: In terms of the value chair, a large portion of

939
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 11: it comes out of Ethopia. And one of the great

940
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 11: Thingsthopia has as a roam commodity is coffee. So hopefully

941
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 11: KARAF will also enable them and increase that value chain

942
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 11: in terms of the coffee growers in the Essames. But

943
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 11: otherwise a good story of investment, diversification and grain the

944
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 11: Ethopian economy.

945
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 2: And then in Congo Park there's been the birth. This

946
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 2: is incredibly rare. It's Mountain gorilla.

947
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 11: Mountain Gorilla twins. It's a nice story, Stephen, because you know,

948
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 11: when we look at d R C Usually it's two highlights.

949
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 11: One is either the ongoing civil war and the rebels

950
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 11: and the said stories around that, or just talking about commodities.

951
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 11: In this case, the Congo or the park called Verunda

952
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 11: Park Stephen, which also borders into Uganda. Rwanda is the

953
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 11: home of about six hundred raised species of gorillas, and

954
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 11: one of the female gorillas is given best. The name

955
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 11: of the gorilla Stephen is called Mafuko and she's from

956
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 11: the originally from the Kabezi family general gorillas at families

957
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 11: and then they but she's not part of the Borghini family.

958
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,240
Speaker 11: But she's given birth to a set of queens Stephen,

959
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 11: which is quite a unique thing. She herself and also siblings.

960
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 6: That were twins.

961
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 11: But it's a key thing for the not only for

962
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 11: the industry of parks in the DRC, but for the

963
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 11: gorilla subspecies as well, especially the specific gorilla species in

964
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 11: terms of they're in this three thousand square kilometer or

965
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 11: square mile park. A lot of poaching happens, there's a

966
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 11: lot of instability because of the war. The positive thing

967
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 11: is that this you know, birth has been given to

968
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 11: these race species and just a nice story to hear,

969
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 11: especially at Temple like DRC that's taken a knock on

970
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 11: so many different angles just to have a nice story

971
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 11: of something that contributes to nature. And that's a that's

972
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 11: not a sow point for one when it comes to

973
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 11: the beautiful country of the DRC.

974
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 2: Doctor and Rottenders are good to talk to you. Thanks

975
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 2: very much, indeed, Doctor Rotendo and Dingui, the founding director

976
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 2: of Tribe Africa Advisory and author of the book Rumble

977
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 2: in the Jungle reloaded twenty eight minutes after seven Good

978
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 2: money show coming up from eighty' clark and for obrimasang

979
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 2: or Sanga Mahana or sanga. How's it going?

980
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 12: Ah, pretty good, pretty good. We've been on here for

981
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 12: a while. It's getting new people trickling in. But looking

982
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 12: forward to the new week. How how have things have

983
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 12: been for you?

984
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, a business world is getting moving. School is of

985
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 2: you know, back tomorrow, and I think that suddenly makes

986
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: everyone set up, pay attention and you know, keep quiet,

987
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 2: especially you in the front there.

988
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 9: Yeah.

989
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 12: So talking about legal matters in things to be mindful

990
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 12: of when starting a new job or a position. So

991
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 12: we'll be talking to Taba Mutlowin was a label law

992
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 12: expert and then at ten past nine, we'll be talking

993
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 12: to Love Connection the pros and cons of AI and

994
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 12: seeking counseling and coaching.

995
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 2: Do you believe in relationship advice? Even I do, but

996
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 2: not from computers.

997
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 12: Well, Lee Joy will be taking us through the pros

998
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 12: and cons of using AI and mental health support, relationship

999
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 12: advice and hearing from expert about the benefits and limitations.

1000
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 12: And then lastly, I think it is a conversation that

1001
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 12: has had maybe in murmurs. But at ten past ten

1002
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 12: we'll be talking to vimala Arian who's the CEO of

1003
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 12: Stark School Schools, about you know, education feature, but what

1004
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 12: to do if your child has failed theometric.

1005
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, very difficult situation and there's so many people. There's

1006
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 2: actually something we hardly ever talk about is what to

1007
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 2: do when that happens. Thanks very much, indeed was sanga.

1008
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 2: We're sunka Mahana on your radio from at ten o'clock

1009
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 2: this evening. All right, lots to come, don't forget Personal Finance.

1010
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 2: We're on Ingram in just a moment. What we learned

1011
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 2: from the volatility of the last year. It's just gone

1012
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:20,439
Speaker 2: seven thirty The Money Show Personal Finance with Warren Ingram

1013
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: and of course Warren's a certified financial planner at Galileo Capital.

1014
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: Twenty three minutes now to eight the time, and Warren,

1015
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 2: you picked a fascinating topic. Actually, some lessons from twenty

1016
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 2: twenty five. And I've been saying all night, I think

1017
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 2: this is important because I think the volatile ride of

1018
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five obviously continues, and I suspect in some ways,

1019
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 2: if you look at how we started twenty twenty six,

1020
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,399
Speaker 2: it could be worse. Good evening. How are you doing?

1021
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 13: I hope it's not worse even but unfortunately I think

1022
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 13: you're right. I'm doing very well.

1023
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 6: Thank you.

1024
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 2: Okay, So where do we start? And I mean there's

1025
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 2: a fundamental point that you make, which actually is something

1026
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 2: that I find fascinating, which is that if markets are

1027
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 2: all about sentiment, bad news doesn't actually mean the market

1028
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 2: will the markets will drop. And last year is the perfect,

1029
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: I mean the perfect example of that.

1030
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 13: Yeah. I think it's one of those things where we

1031
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 13: we so focused on and I'm not saying as a critique,

1032
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 13: but you know, as as human beings, we focus on

1033
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 13: the human stories and the human cost of things like

1034
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 13: the conflicts in the Middle East and in the Ukraine.

1035
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 13: We and and often we we we develop a baseline

1036
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 13: of of negativity where we say, well, those kinds of conflicts,

1037
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 13: I mean, they're they're horrific and and therefore there must

1038
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 13: be bad for investment markets. And and you know, if

1039
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 13: if that was true, the headlines would dictate the market

1040
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 13: moves a lot more than they do. And and I think,

1041
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 13: you know, just to understand markets are affected by by conflicts,

1042
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 13: but they would they would immediate start calculating. So, you know,

1043
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 13: we just look at the start of this year. You know,

1044
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 13: Trump installs themselves, you know, as president of Venezuela. The

1045
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 13: market doesn't just get stuck on that, on that sort

1046
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 13: of dramatic headline. What the market does is say, well,

1047
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 13: how big is Venezuela in the oil market, and it's

1048
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 13: less than one percent. You know, what's their ability to

1049
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 13: deliver a lot more oil to the rest of the world.

1050
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 13: It's very limited. So actually the price of oil is

1051
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 13: not going to drop dramatically because there's a change of

1052
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 13: leadership and someone who just wants to drill, baby drill.

1053
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 13: And so the markets tend to do a lot more

1054
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 13: cold calculations and almost not that investors ignore the human

1055
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 13: cost of bad news. They just calculated and in a

1056
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 13: very sometimes very cold calculating way.

1057
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 2: Just a reminder, the personal finance feature is brought to

1058
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 2: you by Sunam Corporate. They take employee benefits personally because

1059
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 2: when you care, everyone benefits Sunlum Corporate. One of the

1060
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: things about this, Warren, I suppose, is that we mustn't

1061
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:08,479
Speaker 2: forget that markets also move in cycles. In the middle

1062
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 2: of a sort of AI cycle at the moment, and

1063
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 2: that's boosted the US, And we're in the middle of

1064
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 2: a gold cycle at the moment, and that's boosted us.

1065
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 2: So all of the bad news is not quite that

1066
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 2: the events are not as important as the cycle. Is

1067
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 2: that one of the lessons from this, I.

1068
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 13: Think so, and I think also understanding where where the

1069
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 13: future goes. So we look at let's look at something

1070
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 13: like the AI cycle. It's you know, it caused a

1071
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 13: massive run up you know actually in the year before

1072
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 13: last year, and so investors, you know, carried on pushing

1073
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 13: certain companies a lot through twenty twenty five as well.

1074
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 13: But at some point investors started to look around and say,

1075
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 13: where else can I find opportunities and what other markets

1076
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 13: will will present us with future growth? And so you know,

1077
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 13: yesterday's winner might not be tomorrow's winner. And I think

1078
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 13: that that's what that's one thing that started to happen.

1079
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 13: And secondly, very big economic cycles like rising or falling

1080
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 13: interest rates tend to, you know, especially in a very

1081
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 13: big economy, those tend to overwhelm the new cycle a

1082
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 13: little bit. So if there is a prospect that interest

1083
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 13: rates will continue to decline, then that will be a

1084
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 13: very big factor for investors, because you know, the cost

1085
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 13: of borrowing goes down, the ability to invest in shares

1086
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 13: with the prospect that you'll do a lot better than cash.

1087
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 6: Generally rears its head.

1088
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 13: And so investors start to to do, you know, better

1089
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 13: calculations in flavor in favor of shares and and you know,

1090
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 13: fewer calculations in favor of cash. And the same would

1091
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 13: apply to the bond market. And I think last year

1092
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 13: was the year where we saw the resurgence of emerging

1093
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 13: markets for quite some time, you know, certainly I remember

1094
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 13: myself saying this. Over the last few years, we've looked

1095
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 13: at emerging markets saying that they're cheap, know that they're

1096
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 13: they're offering good value, and and they didn't attract a

1097
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 13: flow of money. But when the dollars started to weaken,

1098
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 13: interest rates in America were going down, it started to

1099
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 13: move money away from the US into emerging markets. And

1100
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 13: and that's you know, another very big trend. And I

1101
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 13: don't think that flips, you know, from one day to

1102
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 13: the x to the next. You know that that's something

1103
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 13: that could become a bigger cycle over a few years

1104
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 13: or you know, certainly not days or weeks.

1105
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 2: I suppose. The other question is to ask what matters

1106
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 2: and what doesn't. So we saw almost the near collapse

1107
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 2: of the National Coalition over the budget last year, but

1108
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 2: that was completely offset by what was happening in gold.

1109
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 2: I mean, look at how our markets did.

1110
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 13: I suspect that, you know, if if that gn U

1111
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 13: had failed, uh and and you know we'd seen a

1112
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 13: different coalition running the country, you know shortly thereafter that

1113
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 13: that we would have we would have taken quite a

1114
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 13: lot of pain, you know, at least in the currency market.

1115
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 13: And as you say that, that would have caused the

1116
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 13: rand to take a little bit of pain, and then

1117
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 13: that would have been offset by very strong commodities. Again,

1118
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 13: so I think it's it's it's you know, when things

1119
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 13: are going for you, it's good to take advantage. But

1120
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 13: we could have shot ourselves in the foot last year,

1121
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 13: and you know, very fortunately we didn't. And we actually

1122
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 13: saw that in a few areas because we also saw

1123
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 13: the South African bond market doing very well, and so

1124
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 13: it wasn't just shares, you know, it was also the

1125
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 13: bond market, and interestingly, towards the second half of the year,

1126
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 13: you know, even financials did well. You know, it wasn't

1127
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 13: just resources shares and and you know, South African industrial

1128
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 13: businesses which have really lagged the market for a very

1129
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 13: long time started I think they ended up I can't

1130
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 13: remember one hundred percent, but I think it is round

1131
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 13: about that ten to fifteen percent for the year. So

1132
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 13: so we actually had quite a broad, you know, uplift

1133
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 13: in the in the JC, and certainly I don't think

1134
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 13: many people would have would have sat on the first

1135
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 13: of January twenty twenty five predicting anything like that.

1136
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 2: I suppose the other issue, and I mean, I find

1137
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 2: it interesting what I've been told in the past and

1138
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,439
Speaker 2: what I know now and in the past, so many

1139
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 2: people older than me told me two things. The one

1140
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 2: was buy a home in joe Burg because it'll only

1141
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 2: increase in value, and the other was that you should

1142
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 2: get as much money as you can off sure, and

1143
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 2: I've come to learn both of those things were not

1144
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 2: good at good were bad choices. I didn't make the second,

1145
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 2: but the first I did.

1146
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 13: Yeah, And I think, you know, let's give it a

1147
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 13: little bit of context. The rand against the dollar, you know,

1148
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 13: hit hit the current levels that we're seeing. The last

1149
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,120
Speaker 13: time we were there was somewhere around twenty fifteen, so

1150
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 13: just just around about a decade ago. And I can

1151
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 13: remember a lot of people, some very prominent commentators in fact,

1152
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 13: you know, urging some Africans to cash in their their

1153
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 13: their retirement funds, their retirement annuities or provident funds if

1154
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,919
Speaker 13: they could pay the tax, so give away forty five

1155
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 13: percent to SARS and send your money overseas. And for

1156
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 13: a while that that seemed like a decent decision. But now,

1157
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 13: with the benefit of the cycle changing, what we're seeing

1158
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 13: is the ruand you know, recovering enormously, but equally the

1159
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 13: JC and you know, and the bond markets delivering very

1160
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 13: good returns. And I think it should paint a really

1161
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 13: sort of powerful picture and create a very strong lesson

1162
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 13: that I think we must learn is you know binary

1163
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 13: investment decisions where you say all or nothing, all offshore

1164
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 13: or all in South Africa, that those are both really

1165
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 13: bad decisions. And I think, you know, we we should

1166
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 13: hold people to count when they push an agenda rather

1167
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 13: than you know, kind of deliver sensible information.

1168
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 6: One is, you don't know what's going to happen. You

1169
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 6: and I are sitting here.

1170
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 13: We can speculate and you know, prognosticate about the future,

1171
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,439
Speaker 13: but the truth is we start, we should start every

1172
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 13: conversation with we have absolutely no idea what's going to

1173
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 13: happen in the next decade. And when you don't know

1174
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 13: what you're going to do, then making very big decisions

1175
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 13: like all off sure is really a poor idea. And

1176
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 13: I just did a quick stat and saw that you know,

1177
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 13: the average global unit trust that invests in global shares

1178
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 13: wherehen you measured in rands over the last year did

1179
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 13: only I keep updating it as I get more data,

1180
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 13: but I think it's delivered about six percent for twenty

1181
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 13: twenty five. When you compare that to the average unit

1182
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 13: trust that invests in the JC last.

1183
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 6: Year twenty eight percent.

1184
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 13: And the correct criticism will be that I'm you know,

1185
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 13: I'm choosing one year that in one year is no

1186
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 13: investment thesis. But when you look at the average balanced

1187
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 13: unitrust in South Africa over twenty years has delivered just

1188
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 13: about ten percent, and you measure the same the global

1189
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 13: balanced unit trusts measured in rands again, so you get

1190
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 13: all the currency depreciation, all of that locked in, and

1191
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 13: the return is ten point one. In other words, the

1192
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 13: differences is pretty much immateial. So investors making these very

1193
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 13: big decisions and believing that you know, South Africa or

1194
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 13: the rand or emerging markets are in a one way

1195
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 13: bet are really suffering right now. And I think that

1196
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 13: that's the lesson here is if you're an AI investor

1197
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 13: and you think in Vidio is the only way to

1198
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 13: go for the next decade, you need to learn this

1199
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 13: lesson right now is it cannot do that. It cannot

1200
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 13: repeat this performance for the future. It already is Yesterday's

1201
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 13: when you need to be worrying about other investments and

1202
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 13: finding new ways to grow your capital.

1203
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 2: I mean, part of this is also the historic changes

1204
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 2: we're living through. I mean some of this is about

1205
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 2: how the DOT has devalued against the rand. Essentially, yes,

1206
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 2: the rand's a bit stronger against other currencies too, But

1207
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 2: that that also just shows you that you really can't

1208
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: predict what's going to happen, because that goes counter to

1209
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 2: what everyone told us for so long.

1210
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 13: Exactly. I mean, I can you know, I can remember

1211
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 13: working on the average. The average was the rand appreciated

1212
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 13: against the dollar by about six percent a year. And

1213
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 13: that wasn't a forecast. That's just simply what happened. And

1214
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 13: so you know, often when you tell people that, they

1215
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 13: would be quite surprised, you know, because they felt it

1216
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 13: was a lot worse, and they you know, it was

1217
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 13: very motive. You know that that seems wrong or doesn't

1218
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 13: feel right. My gut says something else. But you can't

1219
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 13: rely on your gut. You've got to look at the numbers.

1220
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 13: And so when the rand strengthens by nearly fourteen percent

1221
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 13: in one year against the dollar, you know, that's two

1222
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 13: years of recovery just in that one very short space

1223
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 13: of time. And as you said, didn't do much against

1224
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 13: the rand, didn't do much against the Euro and the

1225
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 13: and the os dollar and the pound, and so it

1226
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 13: is very much a dollar story. And you know that's

1227
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 13: certainly Trump's economic strategy A player that's that's what he

1228
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 13: wanted was a week a week dollar and if that continues,

1229
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 13: it's it's going to be very positive for emerging markets.

1230
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 13: But again, we don't know that that strategy works, you know,

1231
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 13: as Trump wants it to. In the next you know,

1232
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 13: twenty four months, maybe things go in a different direction

1233
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 13: and the dollar actually strengthens. So I feel it's one

1234
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 13: of those times where you know, looking at global markets

1235
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 13: is not a bad idea. The fact that the JAC,

1236
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 13: I think, the JAC, when you measure it in dollar terms,

1237
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 13: delivered more than way more than fifty percent last year.

1238
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 13: And that's that's phenomenal, And there's certainly a good chance

1239
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 13: at the JAC because it's not expensive. You know, it

1240
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 13: can continue delivering in rands. I don't know what it'll

1241
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 13: do in dollar terms, but you know, don't don't now

1242
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 13: throw out all the overseas investments because they had a

1243
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 13: bad year or two. You've got to be very careful

1244
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 13: that the tide can swing again.

1245
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 2: We're speaking to Warren Ingram, the co founder at Galileo

1246
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 2: Capital and a certified financial planner, looking at the lessons

1247
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 2: we learned in twenty twenty five. We have a question

1248
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 2: from Chris Warren saying I'm twenty four. I just started

1249
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 2: my first corporate job, earning twenty five thousand round a month.

1250
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 2: Where should I even begin with saving and investing? Getting

1251
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 2: in the ground floorish, Chris. We'll have an answer for

1252
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 2: you in just a moment ten minutes.

1253
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 8: State the Money Show was Stephen Quetez is brought to

1254
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 8: you by abs A cib A Pan African bank invested

1255
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,160
Speaker 8: in your story and the potential it can unlock because

1256
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 8: your story matters, as does the restered.

1257
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:43,439
Speaker 2: Fsp Personal Finance with Warren Ingram on the Money Show

1258
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 2: this evening and of course it and of course the

1259
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 2: personal Finance feature is brought to you by SNDAM Corporate.

1260
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 2: They take employee benefits personally because when UK everyone benefits,

1261
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 2: some of them corporate and Warren. We had a question

1262
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 2: from Chris saying, I'm twenty four, I just started my

1263
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 2: first job. I'm earning twenty five thousand around a month.

1264
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 2: Where should I even begin with saving and investing? A

1265
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 2: person after your own heart, I think.

1266
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 9: I love it.

1267
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 6: It just makes me so happy to get a question

1268
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 6: like this.

1269
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 13: And I want to say to Chris, you know, before

1270
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 13: you get that first salary and you get used to spending.

1271
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 13: All that money that will arrive in your bank account,

1272
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 13: you should aim to spend, or let's go the other

1273
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 13: way around. You should aim to save around a third

1274
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 13: of that salary every month. So if you're earning twenty

1275
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 13: five and we round up that third, it's roughly about

1276
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 13: eighty four hundred rand a month. So the first thing

1277
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 13: I would do if I were you, is take that

1278
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 13: eight four and start putting it into you know, some

1279
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:47,680
Speaker 13: kind of a money market account or something linked to

1280
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 13: your banking profile where you can start building up your

1281
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 13: emergency fund. So you want to try and get that

1282
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 13: to around three months worth of your expenses. So I

1283
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 13: hope your expenses are going to be very low. And

1284
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 13: once you're at three months worth of expenses, then start

1285
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 13: looking at your tax resavings account. I think that's such

1286
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 13: a fantastic investment for young people to maximize. So try

1287
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 13: and under your thirty six thousand around a year that

1288
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 13: you're allowed, and then you know, with the balance, try

1289
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 13: and start building up your retirement savings as you can.

1290
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:21,599
Speaker 13: So for me, I would I would try and blend

1291
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 13: you know, tax resavings, a retirement saving and maybe a

1292
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 13: unit trust as well. Just for some accessible money when

1293
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,600
Speaker 13: you need to buy a house one day, against the

1294
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 13: advice of some people, and maybe replace the cab and

1295
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 13: then so I think that's a good deal. But number one,

1296
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 13: try and save a third of everything you earn from

1297
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 13: the very beginning so you don't have to take the

1298
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 13: sacrifices later.

1299
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 2: It's very interesting advice. And of course I should have

1300
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 2: known would start with the emergency fund. That makes complete

1301
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 2: sense back to some of the lessons of twenty twenty five.

1302
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 2: And I mean you're when you look at cash, I mean,

1303
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 2: cash would really not be the place to put money

1304
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 2: last year, despite everything that was happening.

1305
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 13: Yeah, And the reason why I want to talk about

1306
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 13: cash is because it gives us that very stable, predictable return.

1307
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 13: So whether you you know, money market funds last year

1308
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,719
Speaker 13: generated about seven percent as an average. Now it feels

1309
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:18,679
Speaker 13: like a good return when maybe not in comparison to shares,

1310
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 13: especially not last year. But we're starting twenty six and

1311
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 13: we really worried about all the volatility, and you know,

1312
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 13: people are saying that the tech shares are too expensive,

1313
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 13: and you know, the geopolitics is really wild, and when

1314
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 13: there's so much volatility, one of the things that we

1315
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,760
Speaker 13: do as human nature is we try and find sort

1316
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 13: of a stable harbor somewhere, you know, like a port

1317
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 13: in the storm. And so often that the temptation is

1318
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 13: to go and store your money in some way stable

1319
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 13: and predictable. And so looking at seven percent, if you're

1320
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 13: worried that you know you might lose thirty percent, it

1321
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 13: looks like a good deal. But unfortunately you pay away

1322
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 13: chunk of your interest that you earn every year to

1323
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 13: the tax man, and you have to look at and

1324
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,719
Speaker 13: so I think when you take off whether it's forty

1325
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 13: five or thirty percent in tax and you take off inflation,

1326
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 13: you're probably earning around one or two percent a year

1327
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:12,879
Speaker 13: after all of that's gone. And you know, you contrast

1328
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 13: that with a stock market, and especially a year like

1329
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 13: last year, you're doing way more than fifteen percent after

1330
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 13: taxes and inflation. And so you have to get ready

1331
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 13: now to embrace this kind of craziness and volatility that

1332
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 13: we're going to live with for quite some time. And

1333
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 13: I think we're going to live with volatility, you know,

1334
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 13: both in South Africa and globally, and we should now

1335
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 13: get to the point of saying that's normal and not

1336
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 13: overweight the idea of stability in our investments and hoping

1337
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 13: that that will be protection. I think stable investments actually

1338
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 13: give almost guarantee that you won't beat inflation over long

1339
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 13: periods of time. So unfortunately, you know, riding the volatility

1340
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:55,720
Speaker 13: of markets and and you know, making sure that you

1341
01:11:55,880 --> 01:12:01,640
Speaker 13: properly spread across local global cash, bonds, property shares, you know,

1342
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 13: is probably your best antidote to all the craziness that's

1343
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 13: that's sure to happen in the next you know, twelve

1344
01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:08,759
Speaker 13: twenty four to thirty six months.

1345
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 2: Does that mean we need to pay a bit more

1346
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 2: attention to our investments or does it mean that we

1347
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 2: need to have the right strategy and stick to the

1348
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 2: right strategy.

1349
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would.

1350
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 13: I would say, actually, you know, once you've got your

1351
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 13: asset mix correct and you've got the balance between local

1352
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 13: and global investments, I would actually stop focusing on them

1353
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,919
Speaker 13: so much. You know, we tend to watch our investments

1354
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 13: a lot more when we worried about the world, and

1355
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 13: that causes us to become overly emotional. And you know,

1356
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:41,879
Speaker 13: high levels of emotion are very destructive to sensible investment

1357
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:44,640
Speaker 13: decision making. So you actually want to look at your

1358
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 13: investments much less frequently than you would have in the past.

1359
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 13: And when when the news is bad and you know

1360
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 13: you've got a good spread and a good allocation and

1361
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 13: the correct strategy, then you know, the idea is focus

1362
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 13: on other things that you know that impact your life

1363
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 13: and have meaning and purpose and all of those things.

1364
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 13: But watching your investments is not going to add value

1365
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,799
Speaker 13: at all, and in fact probably raises your blood pressure

1366
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 13: levels and anxiety levels, and that might force you to

1367
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:13,560
Speaker 13: make it a bad decision. So you know, sometimes a

1368
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 13: little bit of almost temporary ignorance is going to be

1369
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 13: bliss and could actually be a superpower in the next

1370
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 13: you know, one or two years.

1371
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 2: Sure, so long as you've planned for it, I suppose,

1372
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 2: and what's the phrase, diversify, I suppose would be other

1373
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 2: things it needs to do. Ingram correct Warren Ingram, thanks

1374
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 2: so much, really do appreciate it, and of course, the

1375
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 2: certified financial planner and co founder at Galileo Capital