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Speaker 1: Seven notes, you will listening to The Money Show's Best Bits.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Best Bits of The Money Show, a

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Speaker 2: digestive some of the most important thoughts, insights, and comments

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Speaker 2: from the show this week. If you'd like to hear more,

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Speaker 2: please go to our websites or go to your podcast

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Speaker 2: app and search for The Money Show. As always, there

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Speaker 2: might be a comment or a thought that someone has

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Speaker 2: that someone shares on the show that maybe you think

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Speaker 2: needs to be shared with a friend or a colleague

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Speaker 2: or someone in your family. So always a good idea

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Speaker 2: to just pass it along. To start. Some of the

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Speaker 2: news stories that we thought were important this week, our

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Speaker 2: finance minster Inoana. He was in London this week selling

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Speaker 2: South Africa to investors. He spoke to Bloomberg Television. He

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Speaker 2: said that sustained higher oil prices because of the conflict

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Speaker 2: around Iran may fuel inflation in South Africa, especially if

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Speaker 2: the war goes on for longer than a month, and

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Speaker 2: that's becoming more and more. The major concern that people

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Speaker 2: are actually worried about Multi Choice and of course being

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Speaker 2: owned now by Canoel Plus, they'll shut down their SHOWMAC

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Speaker 2: streaming service. They've been trying to cut loss making units

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Speaker 2: been making a loss for quite a long time. They

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Speaker 2: spent a lot of money three billion rand on all

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Speaker 2: of it. The question, of course, is what happens next,

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Speaker 2: what they will replace it with, how they'll make sure

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Speaker 2: that they're in the streaming app space, and what still

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Speaker 2: needs to happen. And then the other big story of

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Speaker 2: courses about what's been happening in the Middle East, global

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Speaker 2: stock markets reacting, people very concerned about what to do,

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Speaker 2: airlines under pressure, and oil prices really still the major

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Speaker 2: issue that's coming out of that from a market point

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Speaker 2: of view. Tonight, if we bring you a mixture of

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Speaker 2: stories from the world of money from the week. That

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Speaker 2: was your shape shift of this week. A corner Conk

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Speaker 2: the general manager of KFC Africa. She has a fascinating

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Speaker 2: journey and a fascinating understanding of how companies work. I

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Speaker 2: think also a strong sense of curiosity and really interesting

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Speaker 2: to hear how she ended up managing KFC across the continent.

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Speaker 3: Good evening, step and thank you for having me today.

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Speaker 2: I saw I was sort of looking around and you know,

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Speaker 2: having a look at what you had said in the past,

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Speaker 2: and I saw a note that suggested you did accounting

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Speaker 2: at school. But you weren't actually that keen on the numbers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, was that accurate? That does that sort of

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Speaker 2: you know, describe you where you were at sort of

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Speaker 2: seventeen eighteen nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it did. It happened exactly like that.

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Speaker 4: So I ended up registering for a bigum in chattered

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Speaker 4: accounting at UCITY, And it was entirely my dad's decision,

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Speaker 4: to be honest. He looked at my metric marks and

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Speaker 4: he said to me, oh my gosh, you've got an

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Speaker 4: accountant in the making. And he said to me, you know,

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Speaker 4: as a CAA, you will probably be amongst you know,

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Speaker 4: one of the first black sas in this country.

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Speaker 3: Yes, you appreciate this. Back then, this was about twenty.

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Speaker 4: Five years ago, there weren't a lot of black sas,

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Speaker 4: especially female CAAs. And he said, as a result, you'll

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Speaker 4: never have to look for a job in your life, which,

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Speaker 4: strangely enough, I found myself being a female first in

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Speaker 4: many things, I've also found myself never having to look

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Speaker 4: for a job, even though I never did end up

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Speaker 4: being a CAA. So in a weird way, he was

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Speaker 4: being prophetic and what he said, But yeah, I did.

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Speaker 4: I registered for a CA degree, and then I quickly

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Speaker 4: dropped out of that stream because I realized, you know,

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Speaker 4: looking at financial statements all day, every day, doing audits

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Speaker 4: on different companies wasn't exactly my cup of tea.

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Speaker 2: Mm, well, I think you and I would have that

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Speaker 2: in common. You did a bit common. In fact, I

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Speaker 2: think you did a politics, philosophy and economics degree through

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Speaker 2: a b comp Yeah, I mean a PPE. I look around,

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Speaker 2: I think so many young people don't know what to do. Now.

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Speaker 2: Is that something you would still recommend.

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Speaker 4: Highly recommend, And you know what the benefit of that

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Speaker 4: degree is, And the reason why I chose it is

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Speaker 4: I still got to stay within the commercial stream because

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Speaker 4: I knew I wanted to be in business, but also

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Speaker 4: I'm quite passionate about all things politics and philosophy and

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Speaker 4: just understanding how the world works, how you know, macroeconomic

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Speaker 4: policies work in all of those of those elements. And

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Speaker 4: for anyone wanting to be in business, I think it's

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Speaker 4: quite a broad degree. So it gives you a breath

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Speaker 4: of business, but also looks beyond just business. It actually

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Speaker 4: looks at the factors that impact how economies operate, how

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Speaker 4: policies are shaped, how you know, philosophers of old thought

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Speaker 4: about the world, and so it almost brings together a

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Speaker 4: lot of the skills and experiences that you need if

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Speaker 4: you are going to be in business and you're going

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Speaker 4: to be having to make big decisions. And I've found

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Speaker 4: even now actually in my current role, that my exposure

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Speaker 4: early on in life to that sort of thinking has

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Speaker 4: really helped me navigate some really really difficult times of

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Speaker 4: anyone's wondering you know, what, what degree do I want

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Speaker 4: to go into? That still gives me, you know, breath

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Speaker 4: and allows me to still be in business. I would

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Speaker 4: definitely recommend something like that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I have do teenagers in my house and

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Speaker 2: when they're a little younger, the question why do you

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Speaker 2: go to university? And the response, and it's such a

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Speaker 2: funny response is to learn how to think? You can

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Speaker 2: just absolutely response, but I mean that is exactly that. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it teaches you how to think about the world,

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Speaker 4: how to be you know, how to ask the right

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Speaker 4: questions also and how to go about finding solutions. But also,

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Speaker 4: you know, helps you become a bit more comfortable with

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Speaker 4: ambiguity and knowing that you may not have all the

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Speaker 4: answers and sometimes you have to make decisions in the

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Speaker 4: absence of you know, perfect answers and certainty, and that's

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Speaker 4: that's definitely what you learn in university. I don't think

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Speaker 4: it's the you know, figuring out how to do a

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Speaker 4: graph to be to be honest, but it's how to

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Speaker 4: reason with the world.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine a ca being comfortable with ambiguity.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely not, which is why I quickly dropped out of

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Speaker 4: that degree.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that seems to make you tech

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Speaker 2: is understanding how a company works and what it's really doing.

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Speaker 2: And I think one of your first jobs at an

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Speaker 2: oil company was sort of as an analyst. I mean,

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Speaker 2: companies are fascinating and it's the joy of, you know,

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Speaker 2: doing this job is sort of trying to understand what's

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Speaker 2: happening in companies. What do you find so interesting about them?

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Speaker 4: You know what I find interesting is most companies have

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Speaker 4: very similar missions and visions. If you go to any

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Speaker 4: one of their websites and you read about what they

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Speaker 4: value the most, they'll tell you people are our greatest asset.

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Speaker 4: We value integrity, honestly and all of these wonderful things.

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Speaker 4: But the experience that you get can be very different

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Speaker 4: from what's written on their websites and you know, company statements,

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Speaker 4: and I find that fascinating. And I've always asked myself

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Speaker 4: what differentiates company A from company B. Especially when you

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Speaker 4: look at companies within similar sectors, They're doing similar pieces

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Speaker 4: of work, why would one be more successful over the

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Speaker 4: other one? And what I've come to realize in my

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Speaker 4: in my twenty years working experience is culture is actually

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Speaker 4: the biggest differentiator. You may write all the things you

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Speaker 4: want to write around what the company you know, wishes

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Speaker 4: they they show up for their people and their customers,

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Speaker 4: but ultimately it boils down to what the company allows

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Speaker 4: to happen and what the company does not tolerate to happen.

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Speaker 4: And that essentially sums up what culture is and then

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Speaker 4: how culture actually informs the performance of the organization. So

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Speaker 4: the environment that you create and the things that you

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Speaker 4: allow and the things that you tolerate, and how those

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Speaker 4: then start to drive performance within the teams. And normally

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Speaker 4: when people say I'm leaving an organization because the culture

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Speaker 4: was not conducive, what they're really talking about is the

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Speaker 4: leadership of that organization was not creating an environment where

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Speaker 4: I felt I could perform at my optimum and so

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Speaker 4: that for me, I've always found in triggering and I

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Speaker 4: do think, you know, the biggest responsibility for us as

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Speaker 4: leaders is to make sure that the cultures that were

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Speaker 4: who were building are not just based on nice words

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Speaker 4: and nice things to say, but they're really deeply entrenched

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Speaker 4: in creating environments that allow our people to be their

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Speaker 4: best self, to fully thrive and to how companies are performed,

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Speaker 4: because that's really you know, it's become quite competitive now

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Speaker 4: across different sector so we have to have to make

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Speaker 4: sure that our environments are conducing for our people to

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Speaker 4: be their best.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is a strange question, how do you

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Speaker 2: make a company culture? And I say that because I

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Speaker 2: think that the I mean, obviously, as you say, the

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Speaker 2: example of the top leaders matters. I think the example

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Speaker 2: of each leader, you know, through all of the different

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Speaker 2: divisions and management levels might matter more. Is it actually

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Speaker 2: possible for a big company, I mean something the size

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Speaker 2: of KFC to kind of manage or control or develop

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Speaker 2: its own culture and keep that productive for a long time.

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Speaker 2: I think some companies battle with that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and honestly we have, you know, you don't get

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Speaker 4: to the size that we are.

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Speaker 3: With the fastest growing, largest years are a.

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Speaker 4: Fast food or just are in the continent in Sub

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Speaker 4: South Africa at least, And you don't get to those

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Speaker 4: sort of numbers just by sheer luck. It is by designs,

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Speaker 4: because we're very deliberate in the type of culture that

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Speaker 4: we create to call it a heart led high performance

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Speaker 4: culture and be very clear in terms of what it

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Speaker 4: actually means. What does high performance mean? And we hold

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Speaker 4: every single person to the same standard. Anyone who falls

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Speaker 4: outside of that it's a you know, it's it's honest

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Speaker 4: conversations and quite quickly people are able to align. And

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Speaker 4: it's not because we force people into culture or we

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Speaker 4: control them, but we create an environment that actually wants

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Speaker 4: it makes people want to show up in a particular way.

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Speaker 4: We celebrate success, so obviously you want to be successful

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Speaker 4: because you know you'll get celebrated.

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Speaker 3: We rewarded highly. We create a.

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Speaker 4: Space where people can be innovative, they can bring about

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Speaker 4: new ideas. We also create autonomy for teams. Right is

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Speaker 4: people don't always have to report upwards in terms of

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Speaker 4: what they do. There's a lot of independence, there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of ownership. People want that they want to feel

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Speaker 4: that the work that I'm doing. I fully own I

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Speaker 4: own the you know, the results of my work, and so.

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Speaker 3: We create that.

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Speaker 4: And what we're actually doing is we're building a culture

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Speaker 4: that just drives high performance. But it's not in the

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Speaker 4: way that people would imagine it that we're forcing it

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Speaker 4: down people's throats. It's just by creating an enabling environment.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's the work that the leaders need

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Speaker 4: to do.

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Speaker 2: How important is it to maintain that from one division

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Speaker 2: to another. I mean I've spoken to people who tell

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Speaker 2: me they've stayed in big companies for years and years

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Speaker 2: and years because you know, they moved around the world,

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Speaker 2: but the culture was the same and that really mattered

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Speaker 2: to them, you know. And I mean they're moving their

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Speaker 2: families halfway across the world because they like the culture.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's a big thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's finally you asked me this question today

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Speaker 4: because we just came out of a leadership emersion with

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Speaker 4: my leadership team, and this is exactly the conversation we're

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Speaker 4: having around how do we create a consistent experience for

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Speaker 4: all our teams, regardless of which our functions they belong to.

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Speaker 4: Because what we also recognize this in as much as

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Speaker 4: we've got this broad organizational culture within each function, it

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Speaker 4: may show up differently based on the leader, and so

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Speaker 4: we're wanting to detach the leader from the culture in

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Speaker 4: the teams and rather have people experienced organization in a

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Speaker 4: very consistent manner, regardless of what their leader is that

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Speaker 4: they report to. So it is definitely something that's top

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Speaker 4: of mind. We always having conversations around it to hold

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Speaker 4: ourselves accountable actually to ensuring that whether you're in marketing

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Speaker 4: or in supply chain or operations, that you experience the

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Speaker 4: CAFC culture exactly as it is consistently in across all functions.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that happened when you were young,

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Speaker 2: I think, is that you've got a chance to sit

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Speaker 2: an executive committee meetings at quite a young age. And

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons I find that interesting is I

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Speaker 2: think when young people move into a company or a business,

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Speaker 2: or even if someone's just relatively new at a business,

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Speaker 2: they sort of see the people who lead it very

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Speaker 2: much at a distance, and that makes them, you know,

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Speaker 2: almost not human. You know, they're they're sort of you know,

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Speaker 2: in an ivory tower. I don't matter to them. Were

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Speaker 2: you was it a big advantage to you that actually

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Speaker 2: quite young, you were able to, if not take part

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Speaker 2: in the conversations or make the decisions at you see

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Speaker 2: the people who didn't see how decisions were made.

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Speaker 3: It did.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I was exposed to exco conversations in my

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Speaker 4: first job as an analyst fresh out of varsity, and

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Speaker 4: the general manager at the time, you know, started roping

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Speaker 4: me into those conversations, primarily as an observer, but also

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Speaker 4: to kind of be a minute taker, to be to

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Speaker 4: be quite honest. But what it did, is it because

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Speaker 4: it created such close proximity between myself and the leadership team,

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Speaker 4: is I never felt they were not human and they

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Speaker 4: were not approachable, and in fact, quite quickly made me

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Speaker 4: relate very well with power. From a very young age,

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Speaker 4: I was able to relate with leaders that were higher

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Speaker 4: up from where I was. I was able to look

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Speaker 4: at the different leaders and say, actually, I'd like to

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Speaker 4: be this type of leader. There's other you know, attributes

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Speaker 4: I'm taking from this one as I'm building my own

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Speaker 4: leadership journey. This is how I'd like to show up.

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Speaker 4: I'd observed them having big debates in the boardroom, and

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Speaker 4: I'd say, oh, one day when I'm in a boardroom

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Speaker 4: and I'm having meaningful conversations. I think this is a

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Speaker 4: healthy way of debating. I think that's unhealthy. So already,

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Speaker 4: from that, you know, from that time, I almost started

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Speaker 4: building this ideal leadership profile for myself to go, this

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Speaker 4: is how I would like to lead, and this is

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Speaker 4: who I would like to be when I get the

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Speaker 4: opportunity to sit around the table.

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Speaker 2: It must have been really interesting. I mean because you,

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Speaker 2: I mean you had the ability to think because you'd

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Speaker 2: done the app and then you see that, and those

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Speaker 2: two instances happening quite soon after each other. I mean

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Speaker 2: that must have I mean, when you were young, you

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Speaker 2: must have felt at a young age, I'm hoping you

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Speaker 2: felt quite empowered. Don't know, there would still have been

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Speaker 2: things against you. It was a very different time. But

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Speaker 2: in a way, I'm kind of wondering what I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of wondering what you would have been liked

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Speaker 2: to employ by the age you were thirty, because clearly

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Speaker 2: you were going places already.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I never funny enough. I never felt

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Speaker 3: young in my career at all.

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Speaker 4: I always fel well, yes, things happened quickly, but I

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Speaker 4: and because they happened so quickly, people never treated me

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Speaker 4: like I was my age. You know, I don't remember

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Speaker 4: being twenty two when being told I'm young and I'm

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Speaker 4: allowed to make mistakes because I'm young. I remember being

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Speaker 4: treated like I was an experience, you know, professional already.

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Speaker 4: And it actually taught me, as I grained my career

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Speaker 4: that age should not.

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Speaker 3: Be defining for me.

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Speaker 4: I can't make mistakes and blame it on age, And

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Speaker 4: it forced me to learn as quickly as I could,

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Speaker 4: and I moved around different functions. I've done many, many

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Speaker 4: different things in my career, and what it helped me

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Speaker 4: to do is every time I got into a new role,

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Speaker 4: I would make sure that I outperform, that I bring

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Speaker 4: my best, that I learn everything that I can about

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Speaker 4: the space, because I never wanted, you know, for people

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Speaker 4: to look at me and say, oh, well, she's young,

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Speaker 4: that's why she's behaving the way that she's and people

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Speaker 4: never treated me that way anyway. So I was forced

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Speaker 4: to grow up very very quickly.

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Speaker 2: Were speaking to Quet, the general manager of KFC Africa. Connor.

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Speaker 2: When I think of KFC, your role in KFC at

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Speaker 2: KFC Africa, well, I think that there are two big

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Speaker 2: things that I imagine you have to kind of keep

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Speaker 2: in your head at the same time. The one is

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Speaker 2: obviously just keeping you know, the business going, supply chains,

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Speaker 2: customers happy, advertising, kitchens, all of that stuff, and the other,

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Speaker 2: which is maybe a bit more interesting, is what will

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Speaker 2: look like in the future. Do you have any idea

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Speaker 2: if KFC will be that different in the future. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I would presume it's going to focus heavily on fried

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Speaker 2: chicken because that's worked so well for a very long time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's probably what we thought about KFC in

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Speaker 4: the US twenty five years ago. We thought, well, we're

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Speaker 4: big on you know, fried chicken, chicken on the bone,

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Speaker 4: that's what we sell. So that's what pop will continue

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Speaker 4: to sell. If I look at how the business has

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Speaker 4: changed over the years into more boneless category, just driven

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Speaker 4: by consumer preferences, I can almost extrapulate and say in

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Speaker 4: South Africa, in Africa in general, we will probably start

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Speaker 4: to see a very similar trend. So part of my

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Speaker 4: role is to make sure that not only are we

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Speaker 4: getting ready for the trends as they evolve, but that

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Speaker 4: we're actually part and puzzle of informing how the trends evolve.

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Speaker 4: So I spend less time on the operational side of

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Speaker 4: the business and the day to day runnings, and I'd

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Speaker 4: rather spend more time on how are we redefining not

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Speaker 4: just KFC the brand, but how are we redefining the category.

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Speaker 4: I think our size allows us to do that. Our

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Speaker 4: scale allows us to do that. So we currently going

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Speaker 4: through a whole menu refresh across some of our stores.

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Speaker 4: We're starting to bring in new items, and all of

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Speaker 4: this are driven by consumer demand, right.

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Speaker 3: I think as a brand that.

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Speaker 4: Is steeped in culture, steeped in consumer insights, we have

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Speaker 4: to go the direction that our consumers are wanting us

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Speaker 4: to go.

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Speaker 6: Think.

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Speaker 4: Secondly, Africa is the largest, is the youngest continent, with

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Speaker 4: the average age of nineteen. We have to follow what

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Speaker 4: the youthful consumers are looking for, and so that's what

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Speaker 4: I obsess over. It's to what extent are we're able

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Speaker 4: to meet the needs of our customers. We've been on

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Speaker 4: the continent for fifty five years now, I need to

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Speaker 4: make sure that we're still here, you know, another fifty

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Speaker 4: years and another one hundred years, et cetera. And the

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Speaker 4: only way to do that is to remain relevant. Fried

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Speaker 4: Chicken has been relevant for us for fifty five years.

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Speaker 4: I can't say to your hand on heart that it

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Speaker 4: will still continue to be relevant in the.

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Speaker 3: Next fifty years.

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Speaker 4: But our role is to make sure that whatever the

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Speaker 4: meat block of the time is, that we are leading

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Speaker 4: in that space.

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Speaker 2: Do you I mean, KFC, I presume at some point

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Speaker 2: it's going to have to respond to the kind of

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Speaker 2: weight loss drug phenomenon. What I think over the next

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Speaker 2: fifty years will be quite a big change in how

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Speaker 2: humans exist and to an extent, how they eat and live.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we have too, and when I talk about relevance,

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Speaker 4: that's one of those elements that we do have to address.

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Speaker 4: We are Kentucky Fried Chicken, but I do think we

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Speaker 4: still have an opportunity to cater to obviously a more

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Speaker 4: health conscious consumer. We do have an opportunity to also

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Speaker 4: just pivot our menu to make sure that we're not

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Speaker 4: leaving anyone behind. We have a responsibility to make sure

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Speaker 4: that our ingredients are obviously talking have high quality credentials

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Speaker 4: as well. And that's the work that we continue to do,

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Speaker 4: and that's the work that we will continue to do

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Speaker 4: for us to remain relevant in the market.

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Speaker 2: A corner Quincy offering a thoughtful look back on her

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Speaker 2: experiences and decisions, education and leadership lessons that really helped

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Speaker 2: her on her rise to the top of KFC Africa seven.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the best of The Money Show.

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Speaker 2: The Money Show business book review this week. Ian Man

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Speaker 2: the managing director of Gateways Business Consultants. The book he

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Speaker 2: reviewed was Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order

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Speaker 2: by Ray Dalio, and he looked at shifting global dynamics.

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Speaker 2: The book still holds, by the way, looking at rising

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Speaker 2: debt levels, deepening political divisions and how they signal a

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Speaker 2: sort of transformative period that does have echoes in previous history.

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Speaker 2: I need to start by saying, this book written in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. Yes, a lots changed since then. Do

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Speaker 2: the principles hold?

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Speaker 6: That's the point He's not. They're not principles for now.

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Speaker 6: What he's managed to do, and he's done extraordinarily well.

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Speaker 6: And why he did this exercise in the first place,

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Speaker 6: He's been running a hedge fund, probably the biggest hedge

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Speaker 6: fund on the planet. Because of that, it's always been

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Speaker 6: terribly important that he understands global movements. What he's done

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Speaker 6: of late has been trying to understand better and better,

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Speaker 6: and he came to conclusion that there are that from

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Speaker 6: his work that there are cycles. What he got what

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Speaker 6: he started doing was he looked at all he is

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Speaker 6: a massive team, so he've got his team to do

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Speaker 6: a whole lot of research. He then passed all his

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Speaker 6: research onto experts. Then he would come back to the team, revise,

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Speaker 6: send back to experts. But he's really using the best,

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Speaker 6: the best on the planet. I mean that he's available

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Speaker 6: to him when you're a billionaire and when you've got

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Speaker 6: one hundred and thirty six billion under management. Anyway, So

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Speaker 6: what he came up with he came to the conclusion

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Speaker 6: that there are cycles. And by looking at the rise

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Speaker 6: and fall of empires over one hundred hundreds of years,

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Speaker 6: the ones he's focused on obviously only about five hundred

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Speaker 6: years old, but it goes back to the Chinese as well.

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Speaker 6: He said that there are cycles that repeat themselves, and

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Speaker 6: why they repeat themselves is not because the world, because

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Speaker 6: the world's made up of human beings, and human beings

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Speaker 6: have the same attitudes. And so what happens is that

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Speaker 6: he identified big cycles and I think that word I

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Speaker 6: can share with you know, it's the big cycles. And

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Speaker 6: then in his book, which is very detailed, he takes.

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Speaker 6: Once he's gone through the big cycles, he goes and says,

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Speaker 6: let's have a look at what supports the cycles. He

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Speaker 6: gets into really granular information which proves that the support

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Speaker 6: the notion that he has. But go something like this,

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Speaker 6: He studied the ones that are most important for us

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Speaker 6: are the British, the Dutch, the British, and the Americans.

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Speaker 1: All of those of the.

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Speaker 6: World's reserve current were the world's reserve currencies. And by

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Speaker 6: the way, the America will remain the world's reserve currency

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Speaker 6: for a good twenty years after they stopped being the

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Speaker 6: world's greatest and wealthiest country, only because in the same

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Speaker 6: way as language, if we used to speak to each

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Speaker 6: other in English, unlikely to change to another language quickly.

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Speaker 6: So that's going to be around for a while. The

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Speaker 6: big cycles are driven by the success and failures of

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Speaker 6: major countries throughout the ages. And he proves that one

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Speaker 6: of the things that why this is going to work,

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Speaker 6: these big cycles work is because the country is rise

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Speaker 6: and then they get to a stage where because they're human,

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Speaker 6: they start imploding internally, and because structures make them implode internally. Example,

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Speaker 6: if you look at the rise of a power, they

438
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 6: grow strong when they develop productive economies. They have strong education,

439
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,199
Speaker 6: they have good systems, they have they have innovation, and

440
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 6: they have military power. Military power is always important because

441
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 6: changes happened a lot around wars and military power, but

442
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 6: not exclusively. Once they get to once they've been doing

443
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 6: this for a while there and they get to their peak,

444
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 6: the peak goes down only because the the you dominate

445
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 6: world trade and finance and and and and geographies and geopolitics.

446
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 6: But you and your currency becomes the world currency. But

447
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 6: what happens internally is that you extend yourself far too far,

448
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 6: and then what happens is success reads complacency. The complacency

449
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 6: allows you to have debts, debt that rises, your productivity

450
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 6: slows because you don't have to work that hard. We're

451
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 6: all wealthy now and inequality, but internally and it'sournal is

452
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 6: one of the major forces change with its internal revolutions

453
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 6: or wars, those things change. But when you have countries

454
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 6: that become rich and flabby, they tend not to work

455
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 6: as hard, and then you have the countries taking over

456
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 6: them later prepared to work much hard.

457
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: So just to sort of look at at at at

458
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 2: at I mean, you could go back to the Romans,

459
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 2: plenty of examples from Chinese history, and then you would

460
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: also sort of look at at how things have changed

461
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 2: even in our time. I mean America seems to be

462
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: in the middle of that. You know, listen, rich and flabby.

463
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 6: If indeed, and what tends happened when you if you

464
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 6: just look at at the Dutch. Dutch were incredibly innovative.

465
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 6: They're good systems, everything's working really really well. But then

466
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 6: they invented they invented someone which was game changing, and

467
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,360
Speaker 6: that was the ship. Because that they dominated world trade.

468
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 6: What happened afterwards, the country that took over from them

469
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 6: took over ship building and he did it cheaper. They

470
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 6: got British people to build the ships, which that should

471
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 6: develop the technology for And now once you've done all

472
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 6: that stuff, we can reproduce. And that's what's happening all

473
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 6: over the world. So that cycle repeats itself. And I

474
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 6: think that the idea of cycles repeating themselves is because humans.

475
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 6: Human beings remain the same forever. And one example, if

476
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 6: you've got great wealth, you will always ensure that the

477
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 6: politics of your country favors your great great wealth to continue.

478
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 6: That isn't something new It's happened throughout human history. So

479
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 6: you have these cycles repeating themselves again and again. What

480
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 6: he does do very nicely is he identifies what are

481
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 6: the criteria for determining wealth and power? And I think

482
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 6: that if we look firstly internally, you can see what

483
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 6: are the issues that we have to worry about and

484
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 6: why we are The science doesn't have to do it,

485
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 6: doesn't have to make you a non important Holland was

486
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 6: that that that were very small and they mentioned to

487
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 6: do it. But the keys to be able to do

488
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 6: it is this. You have to have well educated people.

489
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 6: You have to have people operate civilly towards each other.

490
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 7: That is no.

491
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 6: You need to see that they come up with innovations

492
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 6: and then once they've got innovations, they can find the

493
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 6: capital in the system which they can borrow against they

494
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 6: should put the innovations to intermarket and that they're allowed

495
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 6: to control what happens to money once they stopped making it.

496
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: So that's very similar to the y nations fail and

497
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 2: the narrow corridor hypothesis of development, where sure it is

498
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 2: where those things come through. Yeah, I have to ask

499
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: and I don't want to put a spanner in the works,

500
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: but all of this was written so twenty twenty one,

501
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 2: I think it came out and I said, it's very timely.

502
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: Now does AI change anything? And I mean, as I

503
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: hear you talk, I'm thinking, well, arguably, you know, the

504
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: first sort of AI most of us heard of was

505
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 2: Chat Gibt, which was American, but Deep Sea was Chinese

506
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: for kind of you know, a price success.

507
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that. I think that AI is going

508
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 6: to be is a contributor. AI is just and he

509
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 6: talks about AI is something which is going to help

510
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 6: us a great deal. We're going to be thinking in

511
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 6: ways we've never ever thought before, with capacities we've never

512
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 6: thought before. But even if, as you say, if if

513
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 6: we've come up with something, sorry, if America has come

514
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 6: up with something really incredible, the Chinese are going to

515
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 6: pick up on it and they the Chinese have a

516
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 6: very strong chance of becoming the next dominant power. And

517
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 6: there's a lot of indications that the great powers do

518
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 6: rise and then then they decline, and simply the nature

519
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 6: of the world and there's a lot of things. How

520
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 6: long you can extend the the the your rise for

521
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 6: and your your dominance for is based on the quality

522
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 6: of education, which we're seeing better in It's better in

523
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 6: the United States, sorry, and in China and is in

524
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 6: the United States Harvard has dropped, i think to number four,

525
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 6: with the one and two being Chinese. So we're seeing

526
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 6: those sort of changes and it is good reason to

527
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,239
Speaker 6: believe that that we must take China very seriously as

528
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 6: a as a contender to being the next dominant the dominant.

529
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: Power Ian Man. They're unpacking the themes in the book

530
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: Principles for Dealing with the Changing World Order by Ray Dalio,

531
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: and just looking at some of the historical patterns that

532
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: we've seen that are having such a big impact.

533
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: The Best of the Money show on.

534
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: Tech Thursday this week Your Ticket Expertsy for Malela Zondi

535
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 2: unpacking how the collapse of some major local streaming platforms

536
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: and the consolidation of global services and then the massive

537
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: massive growth and YouTube, how they're reshaping where audiences are

538
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: turning for entertainment and you look at how these shifts

539
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 2: have started to redefine what we're watching, where we're watching,

540
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 2: and what they mean for the future of content creation

541
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: in South Africa. So we've been hearing about show Max

542
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 2: and we understand the competition they were under But similar

543
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: things are happening in other places. So in the years

544
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 2: you got Paramount Plus and HBO Max the emerging into

545
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 2: one platform, is it the same thing?

546
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 7: Well, hello, Stephen, and yes, totally it would be similar

547
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 7: things because what you're realizing in the United States of

548
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 7: America is that uh A, Paramount has gone and done

549
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 7: a takeover of Warner Brothers, which used to make movies

550
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 7: for a very long time, so they dominated in that

551
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 7: in that sector. So because of that takeover, you would

552
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 7: think that in the way that it's happening here in

553
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 7: South Africa with Canal Plus having done a takeover of

554
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 7: Multi Choice, that there would be restructuring. And part of

555
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 7: that restructure is that you can't have two streaming services

556
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 7: done by what is now one company. So a merger

557
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 7: then would be expected in that particular area as well.

558
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 7: And it's quite interesting that it's it's pretty it's all

559
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 7: across the world in what used to be and still

560
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 7: probably is the biggest the film sector in the world.

561
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 7: But yet their issues are pretty much similar to ours.

562
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: I mean, other services have closed recently. I mean there

563
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: was ques, so, there was Telcom one, remember that, there

564
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: was Vodacom, had one, Where are the audiences going?

565
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 7: What audiences seemed to be the clip that you played.

566
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 7: It's the fragmentation because there are a lot of these

567
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 7: streaming services. But we also need to realize that it's

568
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 7: not the traditional film or the traditional TV players that

569
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 7: are now enabling people to consume content. There are other

570
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 7: platforms and they're available all over online spaces that have

571
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 7: not been in this traditional TV space that are now

572
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 7: available on making contents available. Think social media, for example,

573
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 7: which is where a lot of people spend their time.

574
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 7: We're even here that South Africans spent probably the most

575
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 7: amount of time on social media when you compare to

576
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 7: many as a nations. And so they've also enabled a

577
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 7: video as well and shorts videos as well, which have

578
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 7: also even changed how movies are produced because movies are

579
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 7: now or movie producers have realized this concentration is taken away.

580
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 7: People don't have time to try and figure out complex

581
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 7: storylines anymore because the time is taken away by the

582
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 7: small screens and shorts videos, and they have to cater

583
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 7: to that in how they produce movies as well.

584
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: So, I mean, what I've been fascinated by is the

585
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 2: more and more evidence that more people are watching YouTube

586
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 2: on their couch, they're sitting at home and watching it

587
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: on their big screen TV. What is YouTube doing so well?

588
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: And I realized the shorts is a big thing, but

589
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: is it just.

590
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 7: It's a multiple things right, because multiple research that's been done.

591
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 7: Is that gen Z, for example, that's consumed documentaries. You

592
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 7: would have thought to that younger generations and interested in documentaries,

593
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 7: but they consume these documentaries on YouTube. And you mentioned

594
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 7: short just now, so that's also they got that from

595
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 7: TikTok because TikTok came with short videos and they also

596
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 7: then started producing short videos who and you would think

597
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 7: of podcasts as well, because they have also said that

598
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 7: podcasts are their best performers, so podcasts are also so

599
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 7: I suppose. Because it's a one stop shop for multiple things,

600
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 7: it also enables people who haven't traditionally produced contents because

601
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 7: these traditional platforms that are some of which are shutting

602
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 7: down now come from a big TV players who probably

603
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 7: still use methods that are in a way archaic now

604
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 7: because of how TV used to function when it had

605
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,239
Speaker 7: no competition, when they would have expectations of what a

606
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 7: production company is, what content must look like, whereas if

607
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 7: you find a platform like YouTube, yes you'd find TV

608
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 7: producers go going into that space. You'd find news producers

609
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 7: uploading their content on those platforms too, But you'd also

610
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 7: find an ordinary Stephen Whots who was out at the

611
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 7: beach and spot at something and decided to upload it

612
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 7: on YouTube. You'd find a surfer, for example, who comes

613
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 7: in from a different territory, comes to South Africa and

614
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 7: documents his experience when he was exploring South Africa. So

615
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 7: it's because you can get multiple types of content of

616
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 7: the professional kind as well as the type that's done

617
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 7: by the ordinary person on a single platform.

618
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So that makes a lot of sense. And

619
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people also just go through

620
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: sort of old movie clips because it's fun. So now

621
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: you have people they produce content, right, and they produce

622
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: it for TV and that to move away from TV.

623
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: Now streaming platforms are merging or shutting down. I mean

624
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 2: the producers and at one point we had quite a

625
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: big TV production industry in South Africa, I mean the.

626
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 7: HMM. And it does seem like it's going to be

627
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 7: a continuous battle because there's also the next point in

628
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 7: all in all these battles that are so there now

629
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 7: fewer spaces where their content can be. And also there's

630
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 7: AI also now that's also taking some eyes away and

631
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 7: social media which has also taken either away. Changes. It

632
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 7: will change the nature of the film industry and the

633
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 7: TV industry in South Africa because it doesn't seem like

634
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 7: we know the one place so that audiences are because

635
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 7: when we thought we did know where audiences were, we're

636
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 7: transitioning to it seems like audiences either are no longer

637
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 7: there or we're overestimated that.

638
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting to see how there's all changes

639
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: and you still need more content. I mean I realized AI,

640
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,959
Speaker 2: but also AI slop. I mean audiences could be more

641
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: discerning or just more distracted. I know Matt Damon was

642
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: talking about how films have to change with people on

643
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: following as you say, a storyline and then kind of

644
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: what's the point.

645
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 7: Really, Well, that's the thing. So it also tests creativity,

646
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 7: right and what a feature film actually is because if

647
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 7: you're going to sit for an hour and a half.

648
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 7: Thing about for example, when you're sitting with the kids

649
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 7: and watching a film for an hour and a half

650
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 7: and whether they can concentrate as much as we would

651
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 7: back in the day when you're watching the films we

652
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 7: loved when you're growing up. So and also the repetition

653
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 7: in the storylines because they know that there are multiple

654
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 7: screens that they are contending with. They're not just focusing

655
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 7: on the one big screen or as they're focusing on

656
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 7: the one big screen, but the mind might also be

657
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 7: thinking about the small screen that they might also go

658
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 7: and pick up and fetch and it's taking their eyes away.

659
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 7: So it needs to I suppose some new type of

660
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 7: creativity that's constantly going to get the ice back on

661
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 7: the primary screen or maybe so the primary screen is

662
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 7: no longer the big screen, and that's what we also

663
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,320
Speaker 7: need to understand, that the primary screen has become the

664
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 7: small screen and maybe content including film maybe also needs

665
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 7: to be produced for the primary screen now, which is

666
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 7: the small screen.

667
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 2: Sure Super malele Zondie breaking down shifts in the streaming

668
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 2: landscape and how they're reshaping audience behavior in the future

669
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: of content creation.

670
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: Sees the best of the Money Show from this week.

671
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: And How I Make My Money. This week, we had

672
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: an interesting look at South Africa's vinyl and physical music market.

673
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: Brett Dagmore is the CEO of SAMP Records and the

674
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 2: owner and founder of mister Vinyl. I mean, audio streaming

675
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: sort of dominates the market, but mister Vinyl still carving

676
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 2: out a devoted niche for collectors, audio files, music lovers

677
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: who love the idea, the thought of a record, of

678
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 2: a needle, of the sort of histicultural nosceldia of it,

679
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: the difference of sound that Vinyl gives you. He spoke

680
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: about why there's still some issues, what the challenges are,

681
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: but also why people still in this day and age

682
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: like to listen to a record.

683
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 5: And I think it's always been my passion. It was

684
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 5: my lifeline when I was a kid. Like so many

685
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 5: others around South Africa, I grew up with my parents

686
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 5: listening to Vinyl records and I would later as a teenager,

687
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 5: play in bands and get involved in writing about music.

688
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 5: And it was always an escape for me and always

689
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 5: something that I really wanted to work hard in. I

690
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 5: was very lucky that I've managed to pursue music throughout

691
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 5: my life. I did go to university to go and

692
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 5: study at BA in politics, philosophy and economics, but I

693
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 5: was lucky at the same time that I could sort

694
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 5: of step away from that after having finished it and

695
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 5: pursue music. The vinyl record thing is a very very

696
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 5: interesting one and it started off in South Africa around

697
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 5: twenty twelve. The rest of the world, the vinyl revival

698
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 5: started around two thousand and nine towards twenty ten, but

699
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 5: pretty much around twenty twelve people started getting interested in

700
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 5: vinyl records again, which was a real surprise to a

701
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 5: lot of us. So there are a couple of reason

702
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 5: as to why it sort of started to take off.

703
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 5: One was that a whole generation, that being the younger

704
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 5: generation now, was really surprised to hear just how good

705
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 5: vinyl records sound. You know, we've all heard our parents

706
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 5: talk about how great it is to listen to an

707
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 5: old record and how the quality just seems and feels different.

708
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 5: But there is some truth in that, and there's some

709
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 5: truth in the whole concept of listening to an analog recording.

710
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,439
Speaker 5: So we saw that start to sort of take off.

711
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 5: And the other thing is people love collecting things. If

712
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 5: you like something and you want to give it a

713
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 5: space in your world, So you know, you want to

714
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 5: have a vinyl record that you can put on your

715
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 5: shelf and you can see it and you can think

716
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 5: of the artist and you can really feel a lot

717
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 5: closer to the artist by having a big toll Inch

718
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 5: by tollve Inch effectively art cover which you can look

719
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 5: at and give a space in your world too. So

720
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 5: those were the big driving forces. But I'm seeing a

721
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 5: really exciting one at the moment, Stephen, which I wanted

722
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 5: to tell you about.

723
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to come to that in the moment.

724
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 2: I just want to talk a little bit about. They're

725
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: playing off a record. So when I go home tonight,

726
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: I'll listen to Aubrey and if I feel I need to,

727
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 2: I will, you know, look at a something on my

728
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 2: streaming service on my phone. Is very easy and it's simple.

729
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: But I remember when I first got an LP and

730
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: in fact, I was listening to music right at the

731
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: end of the LP era, so I was just sort

732
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: of getting interested in music then. And it was a

733
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: pink record was called That's Now, That's what I call music.

734
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 2: Six started off with derand Aura I think had Grace

735
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 2: Jogs on it, and there was something about getting home

736
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 2: with this thing, telling my brothers not to jump on

737
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,479
Speaker 2: the wooden floor of the lounge, which obviously they did,

738
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 2: putting the record onto the record player, and then I

739
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: was absolutely petrified of this part, putting the needle on

740
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: in a way quite clumsy then and now, and not

741
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 2: wanting to damage the record, damage my parents needle. And

742
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: then when you got the volume out, when you got

743
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: the music out, there was a kind of magic there

744
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 2: that I just don't feel comes from anything to do

745
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: with my phone.

746
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,959
Speaker 5: You're exactly spot on. I mean, the big thing is, Look,

747
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 5: you cannot beat the convenience of earning and having access

748
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 5: to a streaming service, but nobody ever remembers what the

749
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,959
Speaker 5: first song they ever streamed was, or what the first

750
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 5: song they ever downloaded was. You can't connect with the

751
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 5: album cover on your phone. It's too small, and it's

752
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 5: a digital file, and you tend to drown in us

753
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 5: as well. There's just too much going on. It's just

754
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 5: this insanity of it all. Whereas everybody can remember the

755
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 5: first vinyl record they listened to, and as you've just described,

756
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 5: there were some really really great ones made at that

757
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 5: now compilation, especially being pressed on Pink Final. What you're

758
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 5: also talking about there is the ritual of it all,

759
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 5: or what the big buzzword would be for today would

760
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 5: be mindfulness, right, this has always been a mindful pastime

761
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 5: and way to listen to music. You really have to

762
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 5: think about what you're going to play. You can't skip

763
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 5: the between songs easily. You have to lift up the

764
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 5: stylus and be careful about it. You have to take

765
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 5: good care of your records and make sure that they're clean.

766
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 5: All of these kinds of processes create a little bit

767
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 5: of a barrier where it's not so simple. It just

768
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 5: doesn't it doesn't disappear to the background of your mind,

769
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 5: and as a result, does this mindful experience starts to

770
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 5: become really really rewarding. And as a result that is

771
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 5: that has been a big driver for this.

772
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 2: So so the equipment that your customers are listening to

773
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 2: this on. And I can see two ways of doing this.

774
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,240
Speaker 2: So one is and I can be sort of slightly

775
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 2: boring on this and would be the latest, the newest,

776
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: the most interesting, the most up to date way to

777
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 2: play a record, And the other would be to go

778
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: and find a nice old deck, you know, from the eighties,

779
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: maybe a Techniques I don't even know if the Technique's

780
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: brand exists anymore, and go and buy something like that,

781
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: or you know, go and sort of put that together,

782
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 2: and plenty of people have friends who do that. How

783
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 2: are people listening to records? Is it a good old system,

784
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 2: is it something maybe then inherited from someone in the family,

785
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: or have they actually spent money on something new.

786
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 5: So about five or ten years ago, I would have said, absolutely,

787
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 5: find a good old system and ask around, you know,

788
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 5: speak to your family or your uncle, your aunt, who

789
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 5: knows somebody still has their turntable sitting around and it

790
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 5: would be a great idea to get it and to

791
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 5: service it and to to get it up and running.

792
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 5: What has happened we have noticed since since about the

793
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 5: COVID time is it's become quite difficult to get spare

794
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 5: parts unfortunately. So certain certain brands you can find, like

795
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 5: Pioneer or Technics, and you can still get spare parts

796
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 5: for those, but many others have sort of fallen away.

797
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 5: What's happened in the instagram is that there are some

798
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 5: fantastic brands that are meant manufacturing turntables and they are

799
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 5: very very good. They're well serviced in South Africa, and

800
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 5: they've become more cost effective, let me put it that way.

801
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 5: So we tend to see people picking up new turntables nowadays.

802
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 5: But if you do have access to a turntable in

803
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 5: your family, and it's a big brand like a Pioneer

804
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 5: or a Technique, it's highly recommended that you try and

805
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 5: get that up and running again, and.

806
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 2: You have to play it through something. Now, again a

807
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 2: boring alert, but you need a pre amp, right, it

808
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 2: doesn't because the record player puts out a volume that's

809
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 2: one tenth of you know, what a CD player or

810
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: your streamer does. So you do do you need a

811
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 2: little bit more than just the record player?

812
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 5: You're exactly right, And these are all barriers to entry,

813
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 5: which kind of sucks a bit, but look, it's it

814
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 5: just adds to the experience when you are up and running.

815
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 5: What's very interesting about a vinyl record is you're listening

816
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 5: to an analogue audio format. So what it is is

817
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 5: it's literally just the sound of the vibration of a

818
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 5: diamond tipped stylus or what people would call a needle,

819
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 5: which is just vibrating in a groove as this record

820
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 5: turns round and round. You can actually even put your

821
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 5: ear close to where that stylus is touching the record

822
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 5: and you can the music coming out of it. So

823
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 5: that simple technology which has been sort of perfected over decades.

824
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 5: That technology then has to be amplified in such a way,

825
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 5: which is why then we require these phono preamps to

826
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 5: be able to get that very very quiet sound and

827
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 5: amplify it even further than modern technology would have needed recently, Who.

828
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 2: Is buying your records? Who's coming into the store of

829
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 2: a sort of Saturday morning, Saturday afternoons spending some time

830
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 2: hanging out looking through Is it people my age a

831
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 2: bit more mature than you know, a Brett, or is

832
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: it people who are a little younger you know?

833
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 5: I love this question because it really is across the spectrum.

834
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,879
Speaker 5: I mean, our youngest customers are nine ten years old

835
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 5: and they will come with their parents and buy some

836
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 5: pop records. Some of our oldest customers will be in

837
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 5: their eighties. We've had people in their nineties come to

838
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 5: buy records from us. It's really whoever is passionate and

839
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 5: very very interested and dedicated to me music. So we

840
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 5: find that that's multi generations across all demographics. It really

841
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 5: does appeal to people from all walks of life, so

842
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,479
Speaker 5: it really is across the board. The one thing about

843
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 5: vinyl records, though they are a bit expensive, and this

844
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 5: mostly has to do with the complexities around manufacturing overseas

845
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 5: and having to ship them all the way to South Africa.

846
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 5: You know, sadly, if you looked at a globe, South

847
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 5: Africa is probably the furthest away from any pressing plant

848
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 5: on earth, and as a result, that can make it

849
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 5: quite expensive. But you know, if it's something that you're

850
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 5: really passionate about and it's something that's for you, it

851
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 5: can be well worth the investment. And speaking of investment,

852
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 5: it's really really important that all of us go through

853
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 5: our family family collections and find out if our family

854
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 5: has any vinyl records left over. There are a lot

855
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 5: of very rare, valuable and sought after vinyl records that

856
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 5: were manufactured in South Africa that are very collectible around

857
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 5: the world, and we have seen some.

858
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to I'm going to come back

859
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: to that in a second, because I understand some South

860
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: African artists they want to be on vinyl. They find it,

861
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: I know, you try to help you, they find it

862
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 2: quite difficult to actually to actually get that done because

863
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: it's so expensive.

864
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 5: It is, and it's an incredibly expensive thing. We've tried

865
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 5: to sort of step in and help and create a

866
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 5: very forward thinking record label which licenses music, pays the

867
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 5: artists one hundred percent royalties upfront, and tries to sort

868
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 5: of set up an ethical structure like that which then

869
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 5: goes and manufactures these records overseas and brings them down.

870
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 5: There is a huge cost involved. You tend to be

871
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 5: looking at a minimum order of about five hundred units

872
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 5: at a time, and it is quite difficult to sell

873
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 5: five hundred units of a particular title in South Africa.

874
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 5: The market itself is still quite small, but the great

875
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 5: difficulty actually comes in the knowledge of how you actually

876
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 5: go about this. Whenever we manufacture a vinyl record, it

877
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 5: actually involves people in three different countries will do the

878
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 5: best we can and locally with some excellent at sound

879
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 5: engineers who will remaster the music for us. But we

880
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 5: have to use a cutting engineer who's based in the

881
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 5: UK and a pressing plant that's based in the Czech Republic.

882
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 5: So it becomes quite a difficult thing to sort of organize,

883
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 5: and we're doing what we can to help out. You know,

884
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 5: we've been working a lot with Gallo Music recently, which

885
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 5: has turned one hundred years old this year. Which is

886
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 5: which is really fascinating. But there is a lot that

887
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 5: could still be done for this, and eventually, at some

888
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 5: point I'm hoping that there will be a pressing plant

889
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 5: set up in South Africa.

890
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: We're speaking to Brett Dagmore, the CEO of SAMP Records

891
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: and the owner and founder of Mister Vinyl. He's our

892
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 2: guest on how I make my money. Tonight, we actually

893
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: have a voice note on seven seven two, Good.

894
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 8: Evening, Steven. This is Selma from Rudpoot. I still have

895
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 8: a turn table that works quite nicely, and I even

896
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 8: have some old records dating back to the nineteen fifties,

897
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 8: the old forty four revolutions, but unfortunately I don't have

898
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 8: a turn table that didn't play those anymore. But they

899
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 8: belong to my dad and that Mariol and all those

900
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 8: great names on it. So I'm keeping it just for well,

901
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 8: you never know, maybe one day it'll become a collector's item.

902
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,280
Speaker 8: Thanks you a lovely show.

903
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 2: By Thanks Somy exactly what Brett was talking about, and

904
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: Tim says Stephen, I'm quietly enduring my own little disappointment,

905
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 2: remembering how I burned Golden records in the nineties, thinking

906
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 2: vinyl records would be a thing of the past, since

907
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 2: we didn't even have a vinyl player back there. Now

908
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: I've started collecting vinyl from the scratch Brett. It all

909
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 2: goes to your point, you've got to look after your records.

910
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 5: You do. They have to be stored upright, You've got

911
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 5: to take great care of them. You've got to remove

912
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 5: the dust. If you're based in the Grace of Johannesburg region,

913
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 5: it's also very static. You've got to take the static

914
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 5: out of your records, and yeah, make sure they're in

915
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 5: sleeves and protected. But we're literally there are so many

916
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 5: valuable records floating around South Africa that it's really really

917
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 5: pautant at all of us to a little bit of

918
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 5: research and try and figure out if we might be

919
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 5: sitting with something. I mean, I really love that voice

920
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 5: note it's it's there's something very sentimental about the records

921
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 5: which we come across. But you never know, they could

922
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 5: also dramatically increase in value. And we have seen that

923
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 5: there's certain records which I have found locally which I've

924
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 5: sold for over twenty five thousand round and you know

925
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 5: that there is a demand or international demand for quite

926
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 5: a few of the South African artists, which you know

927
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 5: it can actually be quite a pretty penny, so definitely

928
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 5: have a look around.

929
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: Sure, so interesting. I'm presuming you've seen the movie High Fidelity.

930
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 5: I've seen bit some bit funny enough, we keep delaying it.

931
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 5: There's some really funny moments of Jack back there. We

932
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 5: always say as a store, we all need to sit

933
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 5: down and watch it together at the cinema at forty

934
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 5: four Stanley, So we are planning that at some stage.

935
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 5: But yeah, there's a lot of special culture around vinyl records.

936
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean I have an image and the

937
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 2: High Fidelity is a sort of famous movie about people

938
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 2: in a record store in the nineties, based on a

939
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 2: British book. The movie was good, the book was very good.

940
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 2: You're in a store, so you're still in the business

941
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: of retail. It's a very specific retail. There's a lot

942
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: of business you have to manage. You're sort of in

943
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 2: the right place. How important is it to be with

944
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 2: kind of shops that are similar to you. It must,

945
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 2: i mean forty four Stanley must bring people to you,

946
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: and particularly that place in Joeburg at.

947
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 5: This time, completely mission critical. Retail is a very very

948
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 5: scary space to be in. I mean, we started as

949
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,439
Speaker 5: an I started basically as an online hobby store, which

950
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 5: got bigger and bigger, and eventually it got to the

951
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 5: point where we could go from clicks to bricks they

952
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 5: call it, where we could you start to look at

953
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 5: getting into a retail store. Maybe I was too obsessive

954
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 5: and too nervous, but I did land up looking I'm

955
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 5: not joking at sort of nearly forty different locations to

956
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 5: open the store. The space of forty four Stanley opened up,

957
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 5: and luckily for us, the stars did a line and

958
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 5: it was the right space to get into. But when

959
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 5: it comes to read, tell that the tenant mix is

960
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 5: absolutely critical, the vibe and feel of foody for Stanley,

961
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 5: they're no big chain stores. It's it's very much a community.

962
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 5: It's it's all best around design and being the best

963
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 5: of small business you can be. And that is that

964
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 5: has really accelerated our growth over the years as well.

965
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 5: So you know, I consider myself really blessed to have

966
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 5: have found that space and it is very much our home.

967
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 2: When CDs first came in, Brett and I'm smold enough

968
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 2: to remember that, I thought records would be toast. I

969
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 2: mean tapes that already had a big impact. Yeah, and

970
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 2: and and and records survived CDs, and in the streaming era,

971
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 2: it's actually CDs that have disappeared, yes, completely, And I

972
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 2: don't think anyone would have predicted that in the nineties.

973
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 2: What's so special about vinyl that they've outlived CDs?

974
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 5: So I think with music that there are two different

975
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 5: there are two different avenues here. One is quality and

976
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 5: the other is convenience. So that were well, they presented

977
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 5: a more convenient way of listening to music. They were small,

978
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 5: you could put them in your car, you could play

979
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 5: them anywhere, you could record your own cassettes. Then CDs

980
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 5: came along and they were a better version of this convenience.

981
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 5: But just as CDs came and replaced cassettes, it was

982
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 5: it went straight to downloading and streaming, which would just

983
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 5: replace CDs as being the most convenient way to listen

984
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 5: to music. The whole Vinyl thing is it's it's made

985
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 5: with such care and so many processes are involved to

986
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 5: manufacture these analog discs that the sound itself does It

987
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 5: does sound better depending on whether or not your your

988
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 5: system can handle it or not. But it's also fantastic

989
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 5: to just give it a space to collect, a space

990
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 5: in your world. What I'm finding particularly fascinating at the moment,

991
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 5: and I'm seeing this almost as like a third driver

992
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 5: towards Finyl Records. Right now, we're seeing a lot of

993
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 5: people who are very anti AI and who are looking

994
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 5: for these analog spaces in their worlds. They're tired of

995
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 5: dealing with series and dealing with AI issues at work

996
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 5: in the st which that brings, and they're trying to

997
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 5: find these ways to almost escape from that. And it's

998
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 5: just been amazing to see how more and more people

999
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 5: are talking to us about trying to create almost an

1000
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 5: analogue safe space for themselves. You know, it's like, think

1001
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 5: about it. Back in the day, you would go to

1002
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 5: it's a Friday night, you put your kids in the car,

1003
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 5: and off you go to the DVD store. There was

1004
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 5: no algorithm telling you what DVD to buy, perhaps other

1005
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 5: than the posters at the door and the person behind

1006
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 5: the desk who could recommend what was going on. And

1007
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 5: it's a similar thing with Finyl Records. You know, there

1008
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 5: is no algorithm telling you what to listen to next,

1009
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 5: and it starts to become a very intentional, very rewarding

1010
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 5: escape and pursuit for music, and people are just falling

1011
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 5: in love with it. So we are seeing that that

1012
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 5: sort of anti AI movement really kicking off of the

1013
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,280
Speaker 5: last i'd say six months or so, and it's fantastic

1014
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 5: to see it down here as well. I think we

1015
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 5: all need safe spaces from our technology, and Final Records

1016
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 5: can be one small component of that where you can

1017
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 5: engage and listen to music the way it was originally

1018
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 5: intended for by the artists.

1019
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 1: The best of The Money Show and seven.

1020
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: Two two Brett Dugmore there the SEO of SEMP Records,

1021
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 2: owner and founder of Mister Vinyl, giving us an insight.

1022
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting market. You've been listening to the

1023
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 2: best bits of The Money Show. Just a digest of

1024
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,720
Speaker 2: some of the most interesting thoughts and comments and interviews

1025
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 2: from the show this week. If you'd like to hear more,

1026
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 2: please go to our website or your podcast app and

1027
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 2: search for The Money Show. Thanks for being with us

1028
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: this week, Looking forward to chatting again The Money Show

1029
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: six o'clock on Monday. Have a good weekend.