Speaker 1: Children to education. Welcome back.
Speaker 2: It is time for our education feature right chair on
Speaker 2: seven oh two. And I'm excited to have this conversation
Speaker 2: because it's an important one around raising awareness. I really
Speaker 2: hope that many of those listening, young people and old
Speaker 2: really that are looking to pursue these opportunities abroad will
Speaker 2: be empowered by this conversation.
Speaker 1: We're speaking about.
Speaker 2: Steady abroad scams and the importance around verifying before you fly.
Speaker 1: And joining me for that conversation is Domin Gorcy.
Speaker 2: She's the spokesperson for Rosebank colleague who's been looking at this.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Thank you for joining.
Speaker 3: Us, good even and promoted the shout out to obumafango
Speaker 3: in and good evening to your listiness. Thank you for
Speaker 3: having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2: Do mean, maybe we can just start with you know,
Speaker 2: how how big a challenge are these steady abroad scams?
Speaker 2: You know, I was saying a little earlier in the
Speaker 2: show that I've seen some adverts for scholarship sometimes on
Speaker 2: the internet and fellowships that look really really tempting, only
Speaker 2: to find out.
Speaker 1: That they're sake.
Speaker 3: Oh no, absolutely, And that's a great question to keep
Speaker 3: us a what I hope will be a fascinating discussion.
Speaker 3: So if you look at what the scam really is about,
Speaker 3: it become part of a larger global scam and asper
Speaker 3: the Global Anti Scam Alliance. Just last year alone, scammers
Speaker 3: sit front of not a million, not a billion, but
Speaker 3: more than one trillion dollars in money from unsuspecting people.
Speaker 3: So the real reason really why it happens is that
Speaker 3: you have people who dream really big, and you also, unfortunately,
Speaker 3: you have desperate people and on the other side you
Speaker 3: have people that are able to meet a quick buck.
Speaker 3: It is a growing trend if to look critic trade,
Speaker 3: and that is the reason really why you would find
Speaker 3: these large amounts of scams, and specifically scams within the
Speaker 3: education sector, as you have already said, coming in different forms,
Speaker 3: mostly un solicited, but still mostly in many cases, which
Speaker 3: is too good to be true. So the simple reason why, okay,
Speaker 3: really is that it's lucrative and there's people that fall
Speaker 3: victim to these and people that are opportunistic, so we
Speaker 3: have a very fertile ground for this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean by definition, I know it might sound
Speaker 2: like it's it's obvious, but what would be what is
Speaker 2: a study abroad scam or how how would we be
Speaker 2: able to define it.
Speaker 3: So the study of broad scams specifically would involve criminals
Speaker 3: contacting people claiming that they are legit or providers or
Speaker 3: brocus of opportunities for students to have their ability or
Speaker 3: the siedom to go over things to go study there.
Speaker 3: And it happens in a various ways. The first one
Speaker 3: you have already mentioned that it would be versively of
Speaker 3: scholarships that are being offered to you. You get them
Speaker 3: in the form of fake universities, fake programs. You also
Speaker 3: get visa and immigration scams, which are growing in popularity
Speaker 3: as you know, destinations that are sought after affecting to
Speaker 3: to to to stop the inflow of people that are
Speaker 3: visiting as working with the United States and other places.
Speaker 3: You also have specialized scams like housing scams where you
Speaker 3: are offered an opportunity to go stay at a specific
Speaker 3: place while you study abroad. The scholarships and financial aid fraud,
Speaker 3: and also other really really frightening ones like that you
Speaker 3: are kidnapping as well as money neal skins. So that's
Speaker 3: basically what it means, and some of the different forms
Speaker 3: that these types of Sidia broad scams can take.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was about to ask, I mean, what are
Speaker 2: the different types, because I did imagine that it wouldn't
Speaker 2: just be an organization purporting to be wanting to pay
Speaker 2: for your fees. I'd imagine there's a wide range, and
Speaker 2: that's what makes it so difficult to detect to scam.
Speaker 3: Oh no, absolutely, I think where you see pockets of
Speaker 3: opportunity where people might want to tap in and and
Speaker 3: and and benefit themselves, you would find such scams. And
Speaker 3: these three areas would be opportunities for a place in
Speaker 3: a university, and we all know that those are being
Speaker 3: She went far between. The second one would be opportunities
Speaker 3: for you to stay at a place while you're studying there,
Speaker 3: which is also an area of scarcity both locally and abroad.
Speaker 3: And the third part would be opportunities for as you
Speaker 3: had said, for the university to pay for your feet
Speaker 3: that you would't have to. So these are sort of
Speaker 3: the three high level areas where you would find high
Speaker 3: level of activity in scamming and fraud.
Speaker 2: And then what these scams, what is the usual end results?
Speaker 2: Are people being scammed for human trafficking purposes or are
Speaker 2: they being scammed out of money. I mean you'd imagine, okay,
Speaker 2: in the instance of a scholarship, maybe you're told to
Speaker 2: pay a certain amount or what's the end what's the end?
Speaker 1: Planning? The end game from these scammers usually.
Speaker 3: Well, these are scanning activities increase in sophistication every day.
Speaker 3: But what is I've seen on the ground. I say
Speaker 3: most cases, the end game is always financial game, So
Speaker 3: you would see people being scammed out of their money
Speaker 3: in many cases. While we haven't really noticed or seen
Speaker 3: much human trafficate, this is a growing problem. And if
Speaker 3: there is an opportunity to traffic young people or human
Speaker 3: trafficking through education, I wouldn't say that it's something that
Speaker 3: might not happen. But the majority of cases are people
Speaker 3: that are being swindles off their finances and they're hired and.
Speaker 1: Cash And what what the scanning? What what the scamming
Speaker 1: look like to me?
Speaker 2: Would it be an ad and banking details with someone
Speaker 2: hoping that you know they might bite, debate, or would
Speaker 2: it be an active person on the end of the
Speaker 2: line with a fake accent promising you the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a combination of those. But I'll quickly take
Speaker 3: you through five ways that we have seen this happen.
Speaker 3: The fact would be as scammers posing as represented for
Speaker 3: foreign institutions. You would know that, you know, there are
Speaker 3: certain bodies or safe parties that would represent global universities
Speaker 3: as recruits. So this is one way that you would
Speaker 3: find that it happens. Really an impersonation of university if
Speaker 3: not immigration officials that would approach potential victims with offers
Speaker 3: for them to get visas or to study within specific universities,
Speaker 3: usually a top notch, very popular ones both in Europe
Speaker 3: as well as in the United States. Other ways that
Speaker 3: this can happen with the fake scholarships offers again being
Speaker 3: offered an opportunity to have your study funded overseas, others
Speaker 3: called too good to be true, admission processes promises, and
Speaker 3: those would usually be coming from your prestigious universities. And
Speaker 3: how you would typically notice this is that the requirement
Speaker 3: for entry would be very minimal, so again to God
Speaker 3: to be true. And then there other ways that you
Speaker 3: would applic this up refutulant accommodation listenings where scammers would
Speaker 3: pose state rental as for students are housing abroad and
Speaker 3: collecting deposits you know for properties that donate and exist.
Speaker 3: And thus the and increasing way that you're seeing, which
Speaker 3: is again increasingness of sophistication, will be social engineering where
Speaker 3: your details are taken off social media platforms and then
Speaker 3: the process would then use this information to convene to
Speaker 3: into paying for an opportunity that in most cases, I
Speaker 3: guess in all cases does not exist. So these are
Speaker 3: just some of the tactics that these scammers would be
Speaker 3: using to lure and suspecting victimising.
Speaker 2: A study of broad scams this evening on our education feature,
Speaker 2: why is it crucial to verify before you flying? My
Speaker 2: guest on the show this evening is do Mean Gorssy,
Speaker 2: spokesperson for Rosebank College, and we're hearing from her around
Speaker 2: the trends in that space. I want to invite you
Speaker 2: to join the conversation on zero double one double A
Speaker 2: three oh seven o two. Are you a young person
Speaker 2: or an old person looking to pursue education elsewhere in
Speaker 2: the world. It sounds like an interesting and amazing opportunity
Speaker 2: and you are fearing that it may be too good
Speaker 2: to be true.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe it is, so get in touch with us.
Speaker 2: Call us on zero double one double A three oh
Speaker 2: seven O two. We want to hear from you, or
Speaker 2: if you've already been a victim of these scams, please
Speaker 2: get in touch with us. If you have any questions
Speaker 2: what do me around these scams? Please give us a
Speaker 2: call on zero double one double A three oh seven
Speaker 2: O two. You can also send us what's up on
Speaker 2: zero seven two seven two one seven oh two do
Speaker 2: me I want us to go into the intricacies of
Speaker 2: some of these scams. Do we know from where the
Speaker 2: scammers are usually running the scams from? Are these's generally
Speaker 2: locals or is it people abroad that are you know,
Speaker 2: abusing the system and maybe they've got contacts abroad, They've
Speaker 2: got a number abroad, and they've got something that looks
Speaker 2: really real, and that's why they can do people into
Speaker 2: some sort of a you know, proving legitimacy.
Speaker 3: It's very DIFFICULTMOSO, when we are dealing with online activity
Speaker 3: to be one hundred percent sure where these scammers might
Speaker 3: be coming from. Farm might be coming from next door.
Speaker 3: You never really know some are coming from internationally. What
Speaker 3: we do know is that it is an activity that
Speaker 3: is incredibly licreative. Again, the dollars in work of money
Speaker 3: or currency that you know, international organizations are mentioning. But
Speaker 3: unless if you are really really well trained and sophisticated
Speaker 3: investigators and specialize this vibra security, most of us will
Speaker 3: probably never know where these cammas are coming from. And
Speaker 3: that's why it is so difficult then when you fall
Speaker 3: victim to try and get your money back, if you
Speaker 3: don't have certain systems in place that may allow you
Speaker 3: to be able to get your money back. So it
Speaker 3: is typically what we have seen. It is cross border
Speaker 3: activity and incredibly difficult to determine exactly where these gammras
Speaker 3: will come from. So that's the first part. The second
Speaker 3: part is that even if law enforcement is able to close,
Speaker 3: you know, these mushrooming networks as they come up, online
Speaker 3: activity is very easy to then replicate elsewhere and then
Speaker 3: try and get loopholes. So it is incredibly difficult number
Speaker 3: one to completely avoid it, and number two to determine
Speaker 3: where the people are placed. So that's the challenge really
Speaker 3: that you have on the table.
Speaker 2: I want to go into the how do you know?
Speaker 2: How do you know if you're being scammed? How do
Speaker 2: you know if you're being duped? How do you know that?
Speaker 2: That sounds like it's something too good to be true.
Speaker 3: Well come also, I'll use my own example, because much
Speaker 3: of my thought that I'm quite smart, I nearly fell
Speaker 3: into one of these scammed. In my case, I already
Speaker 3: have you know, the qualifications that I mostly fought after.
Speaker 3: But I wanted to do an exegative development program that
Speaker 3: was offered internationally, and it had all the names of
Speaker 3: really higher level and popular business leaders of our time.
Speaker 3: So I went onto this online scamming. Immediately, I thought, no, man,
Speaker 3: I've studied at some top universities, but these people don't
Speaker 3: look like they're the type of people that would agree
Speaker 3: to be in the same place at the same time
Speaker 3: and only took for me in my case. And I'll
Speaker 3: go to other ways that you can tell. It's just
Speaker 3: to do a Google search and take the name of
Speaker 3: the program and the name of the institution that was
Speaker 3: sailing to run that program in that could commerce and
Speaker 3: do a simple Google search in quotation marks, and my goodness,
Speaker 3: that is where I saw comments upon comments of people
Speaker 3: complaining about how they would do them. These are executives
Speaker 3: that would typically be wanting to do such a program,
Speaker 3: not even young people. But other ways that you can tell.
Speaker 3: Besides it's being too good to be true. I would
Speaker 3: say trust your instincts. Verifigh, I mean go through the
Speaker 3: official channel. So so the first I would say, do
Speaker 3: a Google fetch and look for reviews because now increasingly
Speaker 3: way out we've got many people that do reviews on
Speaker 3: products and check to see if such an organization exists.
Speaker 3: Number two, do your research. I mean it's a Africa,
Speaker 3: We've got the Department of Higher Education and Training where
Speaker 3: you can go to check if local organizations are indeed registered,
Speaker 3: but you can also get information as to how to
Speaker 3: check other departments in your country of where you think
Speaker 3: the place is and try to see if this institution
Speaker 3: is legitimate. And then number three, go and do don't
Speaker 3: click on links where you get an email that's got
Speaker 3: a link and it's inviting you, do not click on
Speaker 3: any links. Rather look at key information, the name of
Speaker 3: the institution, even the name of the person that has
Speaker 3: sent you this email, and go and do a Google
Speaker 3: search and do research before you click on anything. Another
Speaker 3: way that we found to be incredibly supportive and of
Speaker 3: high confidence is just to go to your higher education
Speaker 3: institution if you're looking at post graduate studies or if
Speaker 3: you are at high school. If you can approach your
Speaker 3: career guidance and ask them if they might be able
Speaker 3: to help you with doing a sage. But if you're
Speaker 3: in higher education, I would suggest that you would approach
Speaker 3: your international or internationalization office, which are at most universitus
Speaker 3: you would have such an office, and they too would
Speaker 3: be able to help determine an opportunity might be a
Speaker 3: scam or not. But most portunately, if there is urgency
Speaker 3: where the person is asking you to pay is at
Speaker 3: front or they are using agent pactics to say something
Speaker 3: along the lines of do this within the next twenty
Speaker 3: four hours out the while you would lose your place,
Speaker 3: be very careful of those. Usually universities do not operate
Speaker 3: like that. And then secondly, if they these requests are
Speaker 3: also linked to threats. So maybe if you are an
Speaker 3: international student in South Africa and you are being threatened
Speaker 3: with your immigrating, with your with your status you revoked,
Speaker 3: then those things also are things that you should look
Speaker 3: out for. So if it's too good to be true,
Speaker 3: if they are threads and they're scared, and if there
Speaker 3: are promises that are or threats, that you might lose
Speaker 3: your position if you don't as quickly, I would say,
Speaker 3: rather stop, check and verify before you proceed.
Speaker 1: That's so important. I mean, yeah, I suppose many, many many.
Speaker 2: It's easy to fall for this and and I think
Speaker 2: it's funny that you say a simple Google search should
Speaker 2: should give you the answer. And you'd imagine that people
Speaker 2: that are pursuing postgraduate studies would know how to do
Speaker 2: a Google search.
Speaker 3: You would think so that sometimes these inpersonatils can be
Speaker 3: incredibly convincing. I mean, they can send you an email
Speaker 3: and they would have the right extensions. The other thing
Speaker 3: that you should be looking out for is that if
Speaker 3: the email has got domain for extensions like dot EGU
Speaker 3: for education or dot act UK, you should look out
Speaker 3: for that. But even that doesn't say guide you. So
Speaker 3: again it's incredibly sophisticated. Rather be say some sort you
Speaker 3: don't click on links, verify, check, double check, and if
Speaker 3: it's too good to be through your scared, your under pressure,
Speaker 3: rather stock and check yourself before your check. I carn't
Speaker 3: get checked by illegal people. So that's basically you know
Speaker 3: some of the ways that you can save guards.
Speaker 2: I hear you're you're insisting on the don't click on links.
Speaker 1: Why is this for the potential of hiking.
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely. I mean, for example, these days, if you
Speaker 3: go into your email, you can copy a link from
Speaker 3: an illegitimate source and then change the caption of that link,
Speaker 3: so you would have a link that is coming from,
Speaker 3: you know, a Gmail address, and you can make it
Speaker 3: look like if just a link that's coming from a
Speaker 3: dot C or AC dot UK or dot AC dott
Speaker 3: a extension. So if you have or if you don't
Speaker 3: without clicking, So if you take your mouth and you
Speaker 3: just half I don't click on it, it will reveal
Speaker 3: what the actual link is. But say you don't know
Speaker 3: that horror one can to do this. When you click
Speaker 3: on it, you think you're clicking on a specific email
Speaker 3: address or you're going to a specific website, whereas in
Speaker 3: the background it's taking you to a completely different website.
Speaker 3: And let's be honest, after you're clicking on a link,
Speaker 3: how many of us actually go to the top of
Speaker 3: the blog? But to speak, no one, what we clicked
Speaker 3: on is actually where we've gone, So do not click
Speaker 3: on links. It also opens you up to activity and
Speaker 3: things that might download on your machine and keep writing
Speaker 3: in the background, So it's very dangerous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh we're speaking a steady abroad scams right here
Speaker 2: on the Obrimasanga show. My name is Commenso with DS.
Speaker 2: I'm in for brah Obs this evening and this is
Speaker 2: seven o two. I want to hear from our callers
Speaker 2: and from anyone who's listening who may have almost fallen
Speaker 2: a victim to these scams. And do you ever put
Speaker 2: in as much thought into this as as as you should?
Speaker 2: You know, on my experience, I follow a couple of
Speaker 2: these pages on Facebook and I follow them also on LinkedIn,
Speaker 2: and you know, just so that I can get an
Speaker 2: alert from time to time if there's an interesting program
Speaker 2: or something to do. And I've only realized recently that
Speaker 2: a number of the ones that are on Facebook that
Speaker 2: I have been following that seem to be on a
Speaker 2: poster or seem a little dodgy. Something in me said
Speaker 2: open the comments. And when I opened the comments, people
Speaker 2: in there were saying, this is dodgy, this is not true,
Speaker 2: this is fake. And I'm realizing that I would not
Speaker 2: have known if I didn't open the comments. To me,
Speaker 2: the role of social media, I mean, is that where.
Speaker 1: It all goes down.
Speaker 2: Because to me, the sense I'm getting is young people
Speaker 2: on social media.
Speaker 1: Young people are spending a lot of time on their phones.
Speaker 1: It's the perfect place to get to them.
Speaker 3: Welcome. Mostly interesting that you're raised in social media because
Speaker 3: the case that I've mentioned were almost fell victims have
Speaker 3: found that company on social media, and the moment I
Speaker 3: kicked on social media, I kept being fed to this ad.
Speaker 3: So for a long time I was seeing this ed
Speaker 3: and I've heard it was legitimate. Meanwhile it was SKM University.
Speaker 3: So social media is also a very spetile ground for
Speaker 3: these scams to mushroom and to take different forms. And
Speaker 3: because you are usually relaxed when you go on social media.
Speaker 3: You don't go on TikTok because you are you are
Speaker 3: you know, you've got your guid up. I mean, that's
Speaker 3: where you go to connect with people both locally and abroad,
Speaker 3: and of course gammers noted, so they want you when
Speaker 3: you are at your most vulnerable. So for me, unfortunately,
Speaker 3: that is where I was almost scammed into. It was
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty five thousand brand program that that's
Speaker 3: the amount of money that was almost fistent from me.
Speaker 3: So incredibly, incredibly a good place for these scammers to
Speaker 3: be operating. So much as we like social media. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: if you're going to be transacting, you need to be
Speaker 3: a bit more careful and put your guid up instead
Speaker 3: of being relaxed as you usually are when we are
Speaker 3: on social media.
Speaker 2: To me, I'm learning that these scams are so brazen
Speaker 2: that they go to the extent even of creating fake universities.
Speaker 2: I mean, I thought that you'd have a scam that
Speaker 2: says University of X, but it's a legitimate university, but
Speaker 2: the details are fake, or but I'm learning that they
Speaker 2: even go to the point of creating fake universities that
Speaker 2: don't exist.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, how long does it take these
Speaker 3: days to create a website. I think ten years ago,
Speaker 3: without showing my age, you could create a website within
Speaker 3: a couple of days. Then it was one or two days.
Speaker 3: But now with AI, you can actually recreate the same
Speaker 3: university page using AI. Obviously, if you don't see the
Speaker 3: university page every day and you see the logo is there,
Speaker 3: then you would think that this is the university and
Speaker 3: the college that they're using. So these days with AI
Speaker 3: is very quick. You can have a website up and
Speaker 3: running in a matter of humanity. It's not ours because
Speaker 3: it is that easy, so they go as far as that,
Speaker 3: and that was the case with my case that I
Speaker 3: mentioned that it was a faith university that was created
Speaker 3: that minute. The real university and everything there look like
Speaker 3: the original website. But when you look at small things like,
Speaker 3: for example, if you've got Oxford University, then this one
Speaker 3: is that Oxford, you do ac that air or Oxford
Speaker 3: your ac dot org. So small things like that that
Speaker 3: you typically wouldn't be looking at, but it's very easy.
Speaker 3: They it's an end to end to process. They create
Speaker 3: the product that creates the university, and then obviously they
Speaker 3: create the payment mechanisms. We also are very good with
Speaker 3: digital marketing. So again, if you click on it one
Speaker 3: time in a social media pose, it will keep feeding
Speaker 3: you this ad. So then you get you get duped
Speaker 3: into thinking that if I've been seeing this air for
Speaker 3: a year, it would mean that it is a legitulate
Speaker 3: university because it's been around for so long. Meanwhile, that
Speaker 3: get the violet. It's just a face university.
Speaker 2: And I mean, uh, are government officials and university officials
Speaker 2: some of the people involved in these scams. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'd imagine that it would be someone who knows the
Speaker 2: systems at the university knows some of the programs that
Speaker 2: are that are offered. Do we have evidence that it's
Speaker 2: sometimes officials who are in on it.
Speaker 3: Look where we have seen official activity, it's quite minimal.
Speaker 3: Hasn't worked within the academic space. I think that you
Speaker 3: will be hard trust to find people that are more
Speaker 3: proud of their hard work and heavy change than people
Speaker 3: that are academics, than people that have been working in
Speaker 3: academia for a long time. Where we've seen cases in
Speaker 3: you know, the last couple of years, is not even
Speaker 3: a scam, but it would be people selling university spaces,
Speaker 3: although locally it's not really an area where we've seen
Speaker 3: a lot of activity, So not really a scam because
Speaker 3: you understand that you're buying a university space. But again
Speaker 3: they haven't really grown locally as we had thought that
Speaker 3: they might grow. But what we have seen is said
Speaker 3: it's criminal, it's a criminal network. It is scammers that
Speaker 3: are professional people that have been scamming people in various ways.
Speaker 3: And usually you would find that, you know, a single
Speaker 3: scammer would be running five or ten different types of scams.
Speaker 3: Say it might be a university scam there, it might
Speaker 3: be a credital scam or whatever scam. So it's criminals.
Speaker 3: It's very rare. In my case, I have never found
Speaker 3: such activity within a legitimate university. You it's just brazen
Speaker 3: criminals that have found a way to take an opportunity
Speaker 3: from people that are dreaming big and that are desperate
Speaker 3: for opportunity. It's a criminal organization. There's no other way
Speaker 3: to put it.
Speaker 2: And do these scammers get caught, I mean in our country.
Speaker 2: I don't know if any cases or any case law
Speaker 2: around you know an instance where scammer was brought to court.
Speaker 2: It's a difficult crime to prosecute. But it's also I
Speaker 2: think a difficult difficult terrain to make arrests in because
Speaker 2: the perpetrators are usually faceless.
Speaker 3: Oh no, absolutely, So, like you have said, it's incredibly
Speaker 3: difficult to track because as I had mentioned Alia, it's
Speaker 3: costs border it's very difficult to figure out where these
Speaker 3: scammers are. And if you find that they are not
Speaker 3: in your country, then you're dealing with foreign laws in
Speaker 3: a different country. And one place that I had read,
Speaker 3: we found that they don't even operate by themselves, and
Speaker 3: in some cases the person that you're steaking to on
Speaker 3: the phone or the person that you're emailing is working
Speaker 3: under the jewress of somebody else. We have had cases
Speaker 3: of scammer farms, I think that's what they are called,
Speaker 3: where you have people that have been brought into a
Speaker 3: very large and unhygienic facility and they're working under duress,
Speaker 3: being forced to scan people and make money like that. So,
Speaker 3: because in most cases these are organized crimes in many
Speaker 3: different areas across the other clothes, it is incredibly difficult
Speaker 3: to track them. Number one, if you do track them,
Speaker 3: it's most likely that they're going to be outside of
Speaker 3: your body. And if that is the case, that you're
Speaker 3: going to have to be dealing with international law, which
Speaker 3: is again very difficult to navigate as you might be away.
Speaker 3: So these three elements are the ones that really are
Speaker 3: interplaying with each other to ensure that it remains a
Speaker 3: difficult crime to crack down on, and that's why it
Speaker 3: is growing so much and it is lucrative and even
Speaker 3: if you crack on it for you to obtain successful prosecution.
Speaker 2: So as a result, I don't know of any in
Speaker 2: South Africa where that we've seen any prosecution, but I'm
Speaker 2: sure it is a space that is being worked on
Speaker 2: all right, but speaking study abroad scams with doming Gussy
Speaker 2: from Rosebank College and she's informing us of what's happening
Speaker 2: in that space. It's a multi million rand industry where
Speaker 2: scammers go out of their way to convince young and
Speaker 2: old people seeking to advance their educational prospects with Yeah,
Speaker 2: they scam them and basically pay for whatever you need
Speaker 2: to pay for those or you'll lose the post. And
Speaker 2: there is a desperation I think from many people who
Speaker 2: are looking to study or further they studies, especially with
Speaker 2: South Africa. Some people finding that they're not finding positions
Speaker 2: or placements for the programs that they want to pursue.
Speaker 2: And here's a university, it looks appealing, it looks prestigious,
Speaker 2: it's abroad.
Speaker 1: You know, and you know it can date's a scam.
Speaker 2: So it's an important conversation to have that we're having
Speaker 2: right now on our education feature. I want to encourage
Speaker 2: you to make your contributions on this zero double one
Speaker 2: double A three oh seven O two. I want to
Speaker 2: hear your thoughts on this particular scam. Do me really
Speaker 2: being insightful there on how they work?
Speaker 1: Zero double one double.
Speaker 2: A three oh seven two do me other particular programs
Speaker 2: that are often seen as you know, dodgy. For example,
Speaker 2: on the one that I was following, it was fellowships,
Speaker 2: which is something I'm very interested in. And you know,
Speaker 2: there's a dedicate almost a dedicated Facebook platform where what
Speaker 2: seems to be scammers either tailor or put together bogus
Speaker 2: fellowships and.
Speaker 1: They post every day. So other particular programs.
Speaker 2: That that people should be on the lookout for that
Speaker 2: are prone to being used or manipulated by scammers.
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, And these are usually the programs that are
Speaker 3: in high demand at any different times. Between examples that
Speaker 3: I have seen cases and really high ranging cases would
Speaker 3: be for programs in computer science and all the relative
Speaker 3: silts under they were talking artificially intelligent cyber security. Really
Speaker 3: these lives to degrees that when you are done with them,
Speaker 3: then you are almost guaranteed a job, whether you are
Speaker 3: working locally or abroad. So programs around computter to engineering,
Speaker 3: programs around general engineering, because we all know that a
Speaker 3: lot of people want to do engineering. But even if
Speaker 3: you make the cart, you meet the Libiman requirements to
Speaker 3: see it in South Africa, you are not guaranteed a
Speaker 3: position because the spaces are so few, and that is
Speaker 3: also the case when you go abroad. It's really competitive
Speaker 3: in those programs. The other one is your MBA, the
Speaker 3: same as an informacy right, because typically we all know
Speaker 3: that an NBA is not a cheap degree, so there
Speaker 3: you would be attracting people that are likely to have
Speaker 3: the funds that you're looking for. You might make it
Speaker 3: a little bit cheaper, but an NBA remains incredibly popular,
Speaker 3: but also one that I would attract people that are
Speaker 3: likely to have the funds to look at to look
Speaker 3: at it. And also your fellowships to executive leadership programs.
Speaker 3: There are these fellowships that would involve you traveling to
Speaker 3: another country other executives, very very attractive. So those fellowships
Speaker 3: and executs programs are also some that we have seen
Speaker 3: to be incredibly attractive for scammers to use to newer people.
Speaker 3: So in my experience, these are the three, but obviously
Speaker 3: these are not the only ones, because if you're consistent
Speaker 3: searching for a specific program, scam I can pick up
Speaker 3: that activity if you click on their ad and they
Speaker 3: can continue feely me what you want to see. So
Speaker 3: these three are obviously the most popular, but not necessarily
Speaker 3: the only ones, so there are many more out there.
Speaker 2: We're going to go into the red flags, and that's
Speaker 2: because I got a WhatsApp of someone asking or sending
Speaker 2: us what seems to be an AD for a program,
Speaker 2: and she wants to know if it is legitimate or not.
Speaker 2: So I want us to slowly go through the red
Speaker 2: flags to me so that our listeners can hear and
Speaker 2: you know, almost compile a list of what they should
Speaker 2: know and what they should look out for. I'm sure
Speaker 2: there's those little things that pop out on an AD
Speaker 2: on social media, on an AD on Google that the
Speaker 2: lights should start going off when they see that.
Speaker 1: So can we can we do that?
Speaker 2: Let's put together a list of red flags and number one,
Speaker 2: maybe let me start contributing to the list of first
Speaker 2: spelling errors, do me? I'd imagine those are some of
Speaker 2: the best ways to see if something is a bogus ad.
Speaker 3: Absolutely so number one. Spelling errors would be the first one,
Speaker 3: and also closely linked to that would be the inconsistent
Speaker 3: use of ponts. But obviously you and I would be
Speaker 3: interested in those things. Not everybody's going to check to
Speaker 3: see if you know, the first paragraph is written in
Speaker 3: comic funds, where as the second paragraph is written in
Speaker 3: aerial fonts. But fun, it's fun. There would be an
Speaker 3: inconsistency because usually these email packages that you're using are illegitulate,
Speaker 3: so they are they are not primed to look professional.
Speaker 3: So the first would be the selling errors, and then
Speaker 3: the second would be the inconsistent use of phones and
Speaker 3: the style of the lettering. So those would be they
Speaker 3: you know, your first step. But let's say that that
Speaker 3: you're dealing with incredibly smart stammering. Most of them are,
Speaker 3: and they have checked those boxes. The second red flag
Speaker 3: would be if it's just too good to be true.
Speaker 3: In some ways that you can figure this out. Number
Speaker 3: one is that if you are approached it's an unsolicited email,
Speaker 3: that would be the first the first red fleg and
Speaker 3: then too good to be true insofar as you know
Speaker 3: if you're looking, like for me, if I was looking
Speaker 3: at this executive development program of working executive education for
Speaker 3: a long time, and you do know that there are
Speaker 3: specific types of speakers that are likely unlikely to be
Speaker 3: available at the same time. You know, for example, what
Speaker 3: are they chance that the treatment paper would be available
Speaker 3: on the same life, there be a bay became to
Speaker 3: me as part of this program. Now I know I
Speaker 3: am an intelligent person and I'm very very charming, but
Speaker 3: it's not gonna happen. Right when I was looking at
Speaker 3: this to be scammer for me, I just thought, it's
Speaker 3: not possible. There's used two people as already, so they
Speaker 3: would just take the time to be with me on
Speaker 3: a single evening. So again those would be your your
Speaker 3: your second words, like you know they are too good
Speaker 3: to be true. The third one would be if you
Speaker 3: are you've already interacted with this person, they think that
Speaker 3: you're interested, and they start asking for money to process
Speaker 3: your application or things like that. But usually this request
Speaker 3: wouldn't be you know, please pay this application for me,
Speaker 3: because it is you think there are no I'm not interested.
Speaker 3: They will say pay this application fee, but within the
Speaker 3: next three days or else you will we will no
Speaker 3: longer go to the application. So again a request for
Speaker 3: money that is accompanied by urgency, if not not threats,
Speaker 3: And the thought would be you're not really being able
Speaker 3: to verify this particular university. You know, you're searching online,
Speaker 3: you don't find them, and you cannot find anything that
Speaker 3: is being said about this particular university that would be
Speaker 3: your your your your your your fourth I'm not sure
Speaker 3: I am now your fourth flat. And then lastly again
Speaker 3: threads and uh you know, being threatened that if you
Speaker 3: don't pay this, who are going to to shut down
Speaker 3: your laptop or you know clone you know, or have
Speaker 3: your immigration stats revoked, things like that, So you would
Speaker 3: give them information and then they would use that information
Speaker 3: against you. Uh so so so those types of red flegs,
Speaker 3: but again eficancy, they're ranging from really start or like
Speaker 3: incorrect usage of forms to really really I did, and
Speaker 3: and psychologically disturbing, like being threatened with stats that you
Speaker 3: may have, you know, being in the country for social
Speaker 3: period of time. So the red flags very in their
Speaker 3: intensity and in their you know ability for you to
Speaker 3: be able to pick them up easily.
Speaker 2: Do these scammers have platforms of choice that they that
Speaker 2: they do this on. For example, one may go on
Speaker 2: to LinkedIn and be and have their guard down a
Speaker 2: lot more because you know, it's LinkedIn. Everyone is there
Speaker 2: for professional purposes. It's supposed to be a valid and
Speaker 2: a reputable site where everyone there is a good person
Speaker 2: wanting you to win a life. But do you Still
Speaker 2: the scammers have a preferred platform where they know they're
Speaker 2: going to get more people.
Speaker 3: You find them everywhere and usually what they've seen pled
Speaker 3: scammers are like, you know, they're business people, so they're
Speaker 3: going to go on platforms where you're going to have
Speaker 3: large numbers of people because the more people that are
Speaker 3: engaging with the platform, then they're more chances to do
Speaker 3: have to catch somebody that might be able to hand
Speaker 3: over their money. So look out for platforms that are
Speaker 3: incredibly popular. Social media platforms in particular, I won't mentioned names,
Speaker 3: but you know one big ber Motor's got other platforms
Speaker 3: underneath it that that have you know, some of the
Speaker 3: biggest audiences on social media platforms. So social media is
Speaker 3: your first area. The second w be email because we also,
Speaker 3: unfortunately live in an era of information liks. Your personal
Speaker 3: emails usually that you use to register for subscriptions, you know,
Speaker 3: for streaming and all of that. If they get linked,
Speaker 3: then that email addresses like to go into lend in
Speaker 3: the hands of a scammer. So beyond the dogadasaurs saying
Speaker 3: do not check on links in emails, So that's where
Speaker 3: they would usually you know, approach you on emails. And
Speaker 3: then the third place really that you would get scammers
Speaker 3: is by you know, text, by by also by telephone.
Speaker 3: Usually these telephones would be at peculiar times. Their favorite
Speaker 3: time is going a Friday evenly because usually your currently
Speaker 3: stively the glass of wine, your guide is fund so
Speaker 3: they're able then to siffent to do dub you into
Speaker 3: thinking that you're dealing with the legitimate person. But to
Speaker 3: answer your question, any place where there is a large
Speaker 3: number of people is usually a place where you're likely
Speaker 3: to find these scammers because the more people they have,
Speaker 3: they're more likely they are to make pigbacks because there's
Speaker 3: a larger audience.
Speaker 2: I mean generally, do the scammers get in direct contact
Speaker 2: with with with applicants via the phone? You know, As
Speaker 2: someone who looks for these opportunities and it's interested, I
Speaker 2: always wonder, I mean, can I get a call from
Speaker 2: a certain mister whoever wherever giving me instructions or do
Speaker 2: they keep it very limited contact and not only e contact, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, in order to suppose to maintain some sort
Speaker 2: of anonymity. But it's possible for you to get a
Speaker 2: call from a SCAMMA, it.
Speaker 3: Is absolutely because in many cases you would have a
Speaker 3: deed on social media, so you'll click on a link
Speaker 3: and then it will give you a website form or
Speaker 3: a social media form, and then you will type in
Speaker 3: your name, your telephone number, all of that, and then
Speaker 3: it's easier for them to call you because then they
Speaker 3: would call you. You think that you are being called
Speaker 3: by an international university. Meanwhile it's these scammers. So that's
Speaker 3: one way that they could have direct contact with you.
Speaker 3: The incredibly brainson, but be are right. In most cases
Speaker 3: it will be without much contact. It will be e
Speaker 3: you know, just a discent communication via email. After that,
Speaker 3: I think the most popular would be text, you know,
Speaker 3: with the likes of WhatsApp or I'm assage to that type.
Speaker 3: If they were able to get your numbers, be it
Speaker 3: through a social media form, a website form, or through
Speaker 3: an information bik. And then the third part would be
Speaker 3: when they call you. Usually, if they call you, it's
Speaker 3: not really unsolicit that you would have given up your
Speaker 3: number somewhere and they would be contacting you, linking you
Speaker 3: to that transaction that you would have done on the
Speaker 3: website by submitting your details to be contacted. And then
Speaker 3: you would again think that it's Algyimate call.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm comoto, I am keen on this program,
Speaker 2: and it looks legitimate. It's got the right colors, it's
Speaker 2: got the right fund, it's it's great, and I'm excited.
Speaker 2: And so I click on the link because I don't
Speaker 2: know any better, and I hadn't heard this interview from me,
Speaker 2: and I go in there and I put in my details,
Speaker 2: and then at some point I realized, Oops, you know
Speaker 2: this may be a scam and the scammers may be
Speaker 2: operating this as as you know, as I'm busy on
Speaker 2: my device.
Speaker 1: What can you do?
Speaker 2: Can you go anywhere? Can you report this to someone?
Speaker 2: What can you do?
Speaker 3: Before I continue? You? And have you paid a fee
Speaker 3: over to the scam while you were busy?
Speaker 2: Let's okay, let's first in the first instance, let's say
Speaker 2: you haven't paid, but you are there on the side,
Speaker 2: so you're realizing that something is wrong here.
Speaker 3: Okay, So if you realize something is wrong, I think
Speaker 3: the best place to start would be the South African
Speaker 3: Fraud Prevention Service. It's an organization in South Africa that
Speaker 3: specializes in the investigation and presention of fraud. They also
Speaker 3: then would typically list all types of emerging types of
Speaker 3: scamming and fraud activity on their website, but that is
Speaker 3: the first place where you would need to go, not
Speaker 3: only for them to try and investigate, but also to
Speaker 3: serve as a platform where they can warm one other
Speaker 3: about emerging scams. You can also go to the South
Speaker 3: African Collite service to open a case. Again, if your
Speaker 3: identity gets so then unaware or unbeknown to you, and
Speaker 3: you opened a case, then it is easier for you
Speaker 3: to make claims to insurance if any of your information
Speaker 3: is used to open, you know, illegitimate credit accounts and
Speaker 3: so forth. But they also would give you clips as
Speaker 3: to where else can you go, like your credit duron
Speaker 3: to make sure that you put in AVA lets so
Speaker 3: that if anybody tries to open accounts in your name
Speaker 3: then they would be able to stop such an activity.
Speaker 3: The other plans if you have paid, which unpportunity can
Speaker 3: be the case for some people, you can contact your
Speaker 3: locale bank. I'm not sure if all the banks offer this,
Speaker 3: but it's always worth a try. If it's taked with
Speaker 3: a credit card or with your card and you're very
Speaker 3: quick to realize that this was a camp, this was
Speaker 3: a scam there are certain mechanisms that are in place
Speaker 3: that can allow certain banks to be able to revel
Speaker 3: those transactions, but obviously this is not guarantee. Depending on
Speaker 3: the type of mechanism that was used, it might not
Speaker 3: be possible for you to get your money back, but
Speaker 3: it is worth calling your bank so that at least
Speaker 3: they and stop the card and then not have those
Speaker 3: details the valid for the scammers to make use of
Speaker 3: your card in other transactions. And then lastly, if you've
Speaker 3: got any disputes, really you can contact the National Consumer
Speaker 3: Commission who can also asks to you if you have
Speaker 3: blocked the disclude and you feel that you know the
Speaker 3: information that you're getting is not satisfactory. So those are
Speaker 3: the organization South African Forward Prevention Service, the South African
Speaker 3: Police Service, your local bank if you have already made
Speaker 3: the payment. And finally you can also speak the National
Speaker 3: Consumer Commission.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, what's the reporting to the Prevention Service,
Speaker 2: the FOARD Prevention Service.
Speaker 1: And other organizations.
Speaker 2: Have you found that these scammers are deterred because what
Speaker 2: I know in other I don't want to say industries,
Speaker 2: but in other forms of scamming, what scammers often do
Speaker 2: is that they just move on to the next scam,
Speaker 2: and they reinvent themselves when they realize that they've been caught.
Speaker 2: Are you Are you seeing the reporting to services like
Speaker 2: the Fraud Prevention Service resulting in scammers being deterred and
Speaker 2: stopping or do they just continue into something else?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: No, please, They're not going to stop when you're quite
Speaker 3: right when you say that, they will move on. But
Speaker 3: what I like about reporting to such organizations is that
Speaker 3: at least you're stopping the next person from being scammed
Speaker 3: the same way that you are likely to be scammed
Speaker 3: number one. And also it can serve as a warning
Speaker 3: to their creat to our law enforcement that there are
Speaker 3: new and imaging scams that they should be cracking down on.
Speaker 3: So I'm always voting for reporting. It might not stop
Speaker 3: them from doing it to another person, but it might
Speaker 3: stop them from doing it to another person in using
Speaker 3: the same technics that they tried with you. But it's
Speaker 3: an evolving trend. It's never going to stop. Where human
Speaker 3: behavior is and where human behavior evolved, you will find
Speaker 3: an evolution of these scammers. But reporting it and being
Speaker 3: stops another person from being scanned the same way as you,
Speaker 3: And who knows it might be me. They're be stopping
Speaker 3: you just simply by reporting, I might be stopping the
Speaker 3: scammers from also scamming you in the same way. There's
Speaker 3: a tribe with me, So I highly recommend reporting.
Speaker 2: And then finally to me your advice for our listeners,
Speaker 2: any people who are looking to pursue their studies abroad.
Speaker 2: It's still an amazing opportunity, and I hope that this doesn't,
Speaker 2: you know, scare people. What's your advice to a person
Speaker 2: who's listening who's still keen on going to the international study route, if.
Speaker 3: You're going to be growing the international studies route. I'm
Speaker 3: an old style or old tradition person. I would say
Speaker 3: rather re said an embassy. So if you're looking for
Speaker 3: to pursue your studies, identify the university, the names of
Speaker 3: the university is where you want to study, and I
Speaker 3: find out where those universities are located in each country,
Speaker 3: and then go and approach an embassy so that they
Speaker 3: can give you advice as to the best way for
Speaker 3: a person in your country to have access to these
Speaker 3: thing for opportunities, and embassies would have you know things
Speaker 3: like what are the possibilities that you can get in
Speaker 3: when can you apply, who are the right people that
Speaker 3: are recruiters that can help you with your application. So
Speaker 3: usually they will give you a complete set of information
Speaker 3: step by step as how you can access those those opportunities.
Speaker 3: So please suit with your embassies. The second part is
Speaker 3: that again i've mentioned fit with your school so that
Speaker 3: they can help you with research or speak with your
Speaker 3: university's international office if you're interested in post graduate studies. Again,
Speaker 3: even if you have graduated as an alumni, your university
Speaker 3: or your college would have an alumni office that would
Speaker 3: also be able to help and guide you along the
Speaker 3: right opportunities internationally that could be pursued. And then said
Speaker 3: and lastly, just these feature means you know, if you
Speaker 3: you are too lazy to go to an embassy, just
Speaker 3: look for simple things. If it is too good to
Speaker 3: be true, it probably is. So those would be the
Speaker 3: three tricks that I would be due to to listeners.
Speaker 3: Visit and embassy. This is your university if you're a
Speaker 3: post graduate or your school if you're looking at undergrad
Speaker 3: graduate studies, and if it's too good to be true,
Speaker 3: it probably is. And also you can speak with the
Speaker 3: Department of Informational Relations and Cooperation. They too, would have
Speaker 3: access to such information, as well as the Department of
Speaker 3: Basic Education and the Department of Higher Education and Training,
Speaker 3: and lastly the South African Qualifications Authority through the Council
Speaker 3: on Higher Education. So there are many sources that you
Speaker 3: can look at. You just have to make sure that
Speaker 3: you place yourself, don't be forced into doing anything, don't
Speaker 3: fall under the pressure of losing out. Just take your
Speaker 3: time and make sure that you are pursuing the right
Speaker 3: information that you got from legitimate sources like embassy government
Speaker 3: departs as well as your university alumni office or your school.
Speaker 1: And finally, quickly do me away from people find you.
Speaker 3: I am found at I E. Rose Bank College. You
Speaker 3: can You're not Google mean, you can find me if
Speaker 3: you do a Google search. My handle is to Lingosi
Speaker 3: across all social media platforms and on our LinkedIn, which
Speaker 3: is my preferred platform for anybody that wants professional advice
Speaker 3: and direction. It's too Lingosi, but otherwise you can call
Speaker 3: I E. Rosan College and ask pret Lingosie and I'll
Speaker 3: be more than happy to check.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: That's Domingosi from Rosebank College talking us through these international
Speaker 2: study scams.