WEBVTT - AI in education

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<v Speaker 1>Speaking of school and holidays, let's waste no further time

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<v Speaker 1>in getting onto our first topic of conversation for today,

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<v Speaker 1>which is AI in education. And we received an article

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<v Speaker 1>this week by doctor Nix McLain called behind the Hype,

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<v Speaker 1>Why Africa must lead its own AI revolution. Artificial intelligence

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<v Speaker 1>is rapidly entering African higher education, often through tools developed

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<v Speaker 1>in the West, and doctor Nix McLain argues that while

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<v Speaker 1>AI offers potential benefits, it's unchecked adoption risks reinforcing outdated

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<v Speaker 1>stereotypes and ignoring African contexts because, of course, we know

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<v Speaker 1>that AI is largely evolving in the global North and

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<v Speaker 1>being influenced from culture in that part of the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Joining us now via zoom to explain more about this

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<v Speaker 1>is doctor Nix McClain. Thanks so much for joining us

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<v Speaker 1>on this very early Saturday morning. Next and good morning

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<v Speaker 1>to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning, Amy, Thanks so much for the invite. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it is very very early, but I'm very happy to

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<v Speaker 2>be awaken in conversation with you today.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you. I think this is such an important

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<v Speaker 1>conversation as a parent of a high school child and

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<v Speaker 1>potentially looking at going into tertiary education because it is

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<v Speaker 1>no doubt in my mind that AI must be having

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<v Speaker 1>a great impact on the education system.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. I mean it was an absolute disruptor. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean that twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four moment where

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<v Speaker 2>chat ept open AI flooded the market and the uptake.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that was an incredible disruptor. We saw that

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<v Speaker 2>in our assessments and I'm sure it wasn't only just

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<v Speaker 2>in tertiary secondary, probably primary as well. And it has

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<v Speaker 2>certainly changed the way we do educational and think about it.

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<v Speaker 1>And next, before we go into looking at Africa specifically,

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<v Speaker 1>do you not think that the education system as a

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<v Speaker 1>whole is perhaps outdated now with this disruption coming from AI.

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<v Speaker 2>I think many industries are nut dated, not with this disruption.

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<v Speaker 2>I think what we're needing to do is what the

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<v Speaker 2>disruption has done is it's forced us to think about

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<v Speaker 2>whether we're relevant, are we agile enough? And that applies

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<v Speaker 2>to the education sector, many industries, and I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>something positive in that disruption for all of us.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, you work for an organization called Edge of Fast,

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<v Speaker 1>do you want to tell our listeners a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>about the work that you do?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely so, each of us is one of the fastest

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<v Speaker 2>growing private high education institutions in South Africa. We have

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<v Speaker 2>twelve campuses twenty thousand students across the country, so we're

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<v Speaker 2>an a credible growth spirit at the moment. And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>head of research and postgraduate Studies for Edge of US.

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<v Speaker 2>So one of my key areas is to do an

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<v Speaker 2>environmental scan of what's happening out there in the world,

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<v Speaker 2>stay on top of it, and to feed that information

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<v Speaker 2>back into the organization. And one of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>I care about most in the world and my own

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<v Speaker 2>personal research is in ethics of care as relates to technology.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, you must have a very big job in that case,

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<v Speaker 1>because you know you're scanning the developments, etc. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>all just happening so quickly and evolving at such a

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<v Speaker 1>rapid rate.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I've got an incredible team that I work

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<v Speaker 2>with my colleagues. We're in essence a fantastic community of practice,

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<v Speaker 2>so we're all open to new changes. We feed that

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<v Speaker 2>information back to each other. We have often sessions called

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<v Speaker 2>best practice Fridays where we are constantly learning from each other.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I mean, and that I think just speaks

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<v Speaker 2>to the kind of mindset we need at this moment

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<v Speaker 2>of disruption is really a growth mindset, being open to

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<v Speaker 2>learning and looking for approaching life for the lifelong learning mindset.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in conversation with doctor Nix McLain, head of research

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<v Speaker 1>and postgraduate studies at EDGE for US, and we're just

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<v Speaker 1>talking about AI in education, particularly with a focus on

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<v Speaker 1>Africa because that's where we live. Next, tell us why

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<v Speaker 1>you've written in this article that Africa must lead its

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<v Speaker 1>AI revolution.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, one of the first things I thought of, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in that twenty twenty three twenty twenty four moment, and

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<v Speaker 2>then we well entered into conversation with colleagues around was

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<v Speaker 2>you know, this technology is fantastic, it's it's really interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm curious about it. But where where's the data set

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<v Speaker 2>coming from? And why are the outputs looking in the

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<v Speaker 2>way that they do. So the content is often from

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<v Speaker 2>a US perspective, US examples pulling from US media, but

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<v Speaker 2>we weren't seeing outputs from local contexts, let alone regional contexts.

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<v Speaker 2>And that immediately sparked something. As I mentioned earlier, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>in ethics of k or the unintended consequence of technology,

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<v Speaker 2>and I wondered what if I was feeling this way,

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<v Speaker 2>how our students may be feeling if they weren't seeing

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<v Speaker 2>themselves represented in the outputs.

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<v Speaker 1>So I mean it's difficult because how does one then

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<v Speaker 1>begin to Africanize so to speak AI.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the place to start is to ask those

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<v Speaker 2>critical questions. So we developed a technocritical framework. So often

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<v Speaker 2>when new technology and smarket, it doesn't matter if it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's AI. For instance, we saw that with TV. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean I say that as if I was around with

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<v Speaker 2>the advent of TV. But there's a technological pessimism that occurs,

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<v Speaker 2>where it's an outright rejection of the technology or optimism

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<v Speaker 2>which is just this unquestioning adoption of technology. And what

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<v Speaker 2>we said was we need to take that middle line,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a techno realist actually, but we added critical theory,

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<v Speaker 2>which asks the questions around power, whose data are we using? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>whose voice is present here? Whose voice is missing here?

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<v Speaker 2>And what do we need to do to shift that?

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<v Speaker 2>So it's a long journey, but I do think when

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<v Speaker 2>we start asking those questions and we we enter into

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<v Speaker 2>reflexive dialogue around it. So you know, why are we

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<v Speaker 2>using this technology? Who else should be here with us?

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<v Speaker 2>Who should be involved? In the development, we start to

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<v Speaker 2>shifting in.

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<v Speaker 1>What sort of practical ways is AI being used in

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<v Speaker 1>our education sector at the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>So other than in terms of assessments, which is the

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<v Speaker 2>primary space we see it, and with the students who

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<v Speaker 2>may use AI to generate their essays, for instance, it

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<v Speaker 2>may be used in content generations, so for less in

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<v Speaker 2>outlines or lesson content, and so we've got to think

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<v Speaker 2>very very carefully there then, like why are you using

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<v Speaker 2>this particular tool? And so we encourage the use of AI,

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<v Speaker 2>but we're also saying, if you're going to use AI,

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<v Speaker 2>please ensure that your prompts are advanced and complex enough

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<v Speaker 2>to try and generate content that is a reflexive ortive

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<v Speaker 2>sorry of our contexts, and then to also critically analyze

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<v Speaker 2>that content to ensure that it does speak back to

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<v Speaker 2>our lived experiences, our lived reality.

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<v Speaker 1>Next, you mentioned when I asked you about your role

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<v Speaker 1>that you've got a particular interest in the ethics of care.

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<v Speaker 1>How does that even play into AI.

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<v Speaker 2>So ethics of cares slightly more so, you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>have research ethics, which is about do no harm insure justice.

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<v Speaker 2>With the outcome of research, ethics of care takes us

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<v Speaker 2>one step further, it asks about positionality, So that's about

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<v Speaker 2>who am I in the world, or what is this

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<v Speaker 2>technology in the world, Who's made it, what the power

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<v Speaker 2>structures under it, underneath it, informing it, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>as a result, what occurs due to the use of

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<v Speaker 2>the technology. It also talks about standpoint, which is how

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<v Speaker 2>I really came into the space, which is I maybe

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<v Speaker 2>situation in this context. So I'm in Africa, I'm in

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<v Speaker 2>South Africa, I'm in high education, and I'm not seeing

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<v Speaker 2>my reality reflected back to me. So what does that

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<v Speaker 2>mean for a student? So in ethics, care really is

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<v Speaker 2>about asking those questions around power and asking for reflexivity,

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<v Speaker 2>so thinking about why do we use things in the

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<v Speaker 2>way that we do.

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<v Speaker 1>You recently spoke at the SARIA conference. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if I've pronounced that correctly, but basically it's the Southern

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<v Speaker 1>African Regional Universities Association. And what was that conference about?

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<v Speaker 1>And who were some of the people that were gathered there.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was a regional conference bringing together universities across

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<v Speaker 2>the region to be in conversation around transformation and high education.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was speaking there to our technocritical framework and

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<v Speaker 2>talking about how we can think about AI in the

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<v Speaker 2>future for access. So you know, some of the work

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<v Speaker 2>we do as a prior education institution is we look

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<v Speaker 2>at research for real world impact, and so we're really

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<v Speaker 2>concerned with the sustainable development goals, particular standable development role

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<v Speaker 2>for which is put quality education, and so AI can

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<v Speaker 2>be used to enable access to quality education. But what

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<v Speaker 2>we were challenging is that we've got to think about

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of content. So, you know, I want to

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<v Speaker 2>often talk about personalized learning analytics, which is one of

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<v Speaker 2>the most exciting spaces for AI, but we can't yet

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<v Speaker 2>go there until we get technology right because a student's

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<v Speaker 2>learning maybe, you know, we may accept that a student

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<v Speaker 2>may be struggling, but the analytics, the tools that we

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<v Speaker 2>use need to be contextualized in order to really do

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<v Speaker 2>justice to the student.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason I asked you that question is just because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering whether there is enough education about AI in education.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that sounds a bit silly, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>our is the information trickling down far enough. Our teachers,

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<v Speaker 1>for instance, on the ground at a primary school in

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<v Speaker 1>a low income area in Cape Town, being fed the

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<v Speaker 1>right information about AI and how to use it. Safely

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<v Speaker 1>and properly and correctly.

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<v Speaker 2>That's an excellent question. I think that where we've still

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<v Speaker 2>got a long way to go. You know, in the

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<v Speaker 2>last year, year and a half, what I've seen is

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<v Speaker 2>a fear based response to AI. People are very quick

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<v Speaker 2>to head towards policy, which to me always indicates over

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<v Speaker 2>governance and not necessarily a curiosity. So we for instance,

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<v Speaker 2>I know this is a primary school primary education question,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, if we think about kind of how

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<v Speaker 2>Age of US has responded. We went for guidelines so

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<v Speaker 2>that it's this living, breathing document where we're constantly adapting

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<v Speaker 2>with the technology and indicating let's be careful, let's be curious.

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<v Speaker 2>And I worry that at primary and secondary level, that

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<v Speaker 2>especially in space where there is the digital divide. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>we have matters around digital literacy and digital fluency, which

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<v Speaker 2>is something we're not talking about as well, that educators

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<v Speaker 2>aren't receiving the information that they need and I instead

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<v Speaker 2>receiving a fear based response which will not serve students

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<v Speaker 2>in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>Next Unfortunately, we're out of time, but if people would

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<v Speaker 1>like to get in touch with Edge of Us or

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<v Speaker 1>find out more about the work that you do, can

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<v Speaker 1>you let them know what the best way to do

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<v Speaker 1>so it would be.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely so they can send me an email directly, So

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<v Speaker 2>NYX dot McLaren m c l e A n at

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<v Speaker 2>edge of us dot com or have look at our

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<v Speaker 2>website edgebus dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for your time on the Saturday morning.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope you're able to go and jump back into

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<v Speaker 1>bed or spend the rest of the morning doing something

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<v Speaker 1>super fun.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a day for adventure, So thank you very much, Amie.

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<v Speaker 2>Have an excellent morning and thanks for the conversation you two.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. Next Doctor next Claim recently presented

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<v Speaker 1>AI Enabled Access to Quality Education, a case study of

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<v Speaker 1>digital transformation at a South African private HI at the

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<v Speaker 1>regional conference. We spoke about the SARUA conference