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Speaker 1: Report on Bloomberg Today, Lsutu's Natural Resources Minister Machromi molek

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Speaker 1: Or saying they'll be looking for more compensation for the

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Speaker 1: money they sent to us through the Lesuto Highlands Water Project.

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Speaker 1: The terms of the deal between US and the SUTU

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Speaker 1: are due to be discussed through the month of April.

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Speaker 1: Professor Mike Muller is a visiting professor in the School

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Speaker 1: of Governance at Its University, among many other roles that

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Speaker 1: he's played over the over the years. Mike Good evening,

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Speaker 1: this first deal was signed back nineteen eighty six. I

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Speaker 1: think it was How is LUSUTU compensated? Now, how does

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Speaker 1: this deal really work at the moment?

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Speaker 2: Well, I evening to you, Stephen and to your listeners.

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Speaker 2: You know the deal has evolved over time, but the

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Speaker 2: basic principle is that South Africa saved a lot of

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Speaker 2: money by taking money taking water from Lasutu and instead

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Speaker 2: of pumping it up from the Orange River at Alible North,

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Speaker 2: allowing it to run down from the mountain towards Koteng.

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Speaker 2: We save a lot of money. We could have had

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Speaker 2: that other option, but it was agreed that if we

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Speaker 2: were going to use the Lasuitu territory. To bring the

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Speaker 2: water to Kating, we needed to pay lasuit To some compensation,

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Speaker 2: and that compensation was calculated on the basis that they

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Speaker 2: were helping us to save money. They deserve the share

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Speaker 2: of that saving and they get more than half of

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Speaker 2: the value of the saving over time.

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Speaker 1: Now we seem to have lost Mike Maler there. I'm

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Speaker 1: hoping that we'll.

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Speaker 2: Be basically that's got to be adjusted. There's inflation, say

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Speaker 2: the money. Sorry, are you hearing me?

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Speaker 1: Yes, we are now, Mike. We did lose you for

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Speaker 1: a little bit of for a moment. You were saying

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Speaker 1: when we last heard you that Lasuita needed to get

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Speaker 1: over half of the money that we were saving.

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Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, and you know, there've been some adjustments. They've

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Speaker 2: got to be operational costs that are covered. But the

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Speaker 2: basic principle has remained the same and it's done well

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Speaker 2: for both countries. South Africa has saved money and got

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Speaker 2: water reliably and Lasuta has got a reliable share of revenue,

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Speaker 2: which doesn't change by the way, you know, because they

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Speaker 2: have a guaranteed supply from the dams and we give

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Speaker 2: them a guaranteed payment for the water. So it's been

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Speaker 2: working quite well. There is a problem though. It is

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Speaker 2: one of the major sources of revenue of Lasutu, and

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Speaker 2: quite frankly, every time there's a new government in Lasutu,

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Speaker 2: one of the things they look at and say, could

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Speaker 2: we squeeze some more money out of South Africa. It's

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Speaker 2: an unfortunate but obvious approach to take. It doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Oh dear, that seems to have disappeared.

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Speaker 2: Now they build strong relationships and it can be Now

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Speaker 2: I'm back again. Sorry, I'm in a cra and I

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Speaker 2: thought the university's internet was good, but it's not as

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Speaker 2: good as I thought. Can you hear me? Now, I'll

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Speaker 2: try and get the hands.

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Speaker 1: Yes we can, Mike, thank you. So okay, I understand

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Speaker 1: what he is. I mean, politics being politics. Is it

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Speaker 1: a simple thing to change or is it a pretty

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Speaker 1: kind of ironclad contract. I mean, if I were the

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Speaker 1: South African government, I'll be saying to Lasu, now, hold on,

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Speaker 1: you can't do this every time you have an election

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Speaker 1: or whatever. So we're now going to put something in stone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that there is a provision to review

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Speaker 2: to the treaty and that's the one side of it.

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Speaker 2: And there's got to be some good reason to do that,

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Speaker 2: and it's not obvious what that would be. Much more important, though,

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Speaker 2: there are other things that could be done in Lawsuitu

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Speaker 2: that will make a difference both to South Africa and

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Speaker 2: to La Suitu and could increase income for La Suitu,

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Speaker 2: and I think it would be much more sensible to

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Speaker 2: talk about the options rather than a.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we are probably going to have to

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Speaker 1: abandon this, even though it is one of the most

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Speaker 1: interesting conversations I can imagine moving about.

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Speaker 2: You know, let's have an argument on both to yield

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Speaker 2: more for Lasutu than it does at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Just while we've got you, would electricity be an option?

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Speaker 1: Often when you have a damn you can generate electricity.

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Speaker 1: Is that a conversation people could or should be having.

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Speaker 2: It's a conversation that's very much on the agenda. And

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Speaker 2: one of the problems.

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Speaker 3: Is that LASUTA has a project for electricity related to

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Speaker 3: the second phase of the La Suita project program, and

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Speaker 3: they don't seem to want to take it further.

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Speaker 1: All Right, we'll have to leave that there. I think

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Speaker 1: we'll give up on that conversation for the moment. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: Professor Mike Manna, Thank you. I do appreciate you trying

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Speaker 1: to do that. Visiting professor in the School of Governance

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Speaker 1: at Vits University. An interesting conversation, an important conversation too,

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Speaker 1: because and I mean, I'm no rocket scientist, I'm no hydrologist,

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Speaker 1: but I think you and I both know that if

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Speaker 1: we don't have some kind of agreement with Lusutu, well

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Speaker 1: Harteng is in all sorts of trouble. And that's a

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Speaker 1: huge part of our economy. I can't really imagine any

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Speaker 1: other way to do it. And we know that with

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Speaker 1: the water we get from the Sutu currently, in the

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Speaker 1: amount that gets wasted, in the amount that we sort

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Speaker 1: of overuse, how important a source of water is. So

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Speaker 1: if that gets removed, we really are in very serious

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Speaker 1: trouble