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Speaker 1: It's on the Money Show six to eight pm.

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Speaker 2: I had one of those moments, I suppose you would

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Speaker 2: call it a wry smile listening to Marky and the

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Speaker 2: e WN bulletin. And you've got the Deputy Minister of

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Speaker 2: Defense Bunta Holomisi's also the leader of the UDM, confirming

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Speaker 2: that the amount of money that's being spent on Defense

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Speaker 2: Force Day by the South African National Defense Force has

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Speaker 2: been slashed and now it's only one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: million rand. I got to say, I mean, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: you have the same thought I did. If you didn't,

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Speaker 2: I'd like to hear it. Why are you having it

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Speaker 2: at all? There's a story in the Sunday Times, not yesterday,

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Speaker 2: but last week that some soldiers are not getting all

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Speaker 2: of the food that they need. They're not getting money

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Speaker 2: for food, and here you are spending this money. And

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Speaker 2: I have to say this, when you consider that air force,

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Speaker 2: that Defense Force Day this year is in the hometown

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Speaker 2: I think it's tohuyandor of the outgoing head of the

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Speaker 2: ESA in df Rodana Mapuanya. You just think to yourself, well,

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Speaker 2: this is a this is a fair well for him,

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Speaker 2: this is personal and the Defense Force shouldn't be personal.

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Speaker 2: And this, by the way, is the same person who's

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Speaker 2: presided over the France Mattipa story, and that story scares

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Speaker 2: me unbelievably. This is the sa NDF special unit that

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Speaker 2: seems to have killed the Hawks investigator France Mattipa. So

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Speaker 2: I don't see why we're spending one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: million round or really any money at all on Defense

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Speaker 2: Force Day. Let's spend it more effectively on the national

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Speaker 2: Defense Force that stood over the longer term. Please oh

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Speaker 2: double one double a three oh seven, O two two

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Speaker 2: one four four six oh five six seven and voice

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Speaker 2: notes on seven two seven oh two one seven oh two.

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Speaker 1: No money show with Stephen Cruitters.

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Speaker 2: Well telcome reporting today it's Ibadara by eight point four

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Speaker 2: percent in the three months to the end of December.

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Speaker 2: The number that stood out for me was the mobile

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Speaker 2: data subscriber number. It's up by over twenty nine percent.

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Speaker 2: The CEO of Telcom consumer is longer see or longer.

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Speaker 2: Good evening and thanks for your time. It's a huge number.

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Speaker 2: Why did you data subscribers go up by such a

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Speaker 2: big number?

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Speaker 3: Good even to you, Steve and your listeners. Really thank

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Speaker 3: you for having me tonight. I mean, this, this this

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Speaker 3: massive growth that you're seeing, it's really at the back

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Speaker 3: of our really data lad strategy, you know, underpin by

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Speaker 3: our data science and CVM play. So I mean, I've

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Speaker 3: gotten to a point where we can really make customer

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Speaker 3: behavior you know, to offer in real time using AI

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Speaker 3: in essence, and that's what's been driving driving really our

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Speaker 3: our mobile subs growth. But I think growing subscribers is

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Speaker 3: one thing. On the other side, you really want to

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Speaker 3: grow your your mobile revenue. So I mean, our mobile

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Speaker 3: data revenue is up eleven percent, service revenue seven point six,

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Speaker 3: and these days seven six percent of our customers actually

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Speaker 3: data customers, which actually underpins why our strategy you know,

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Speaker 3: are successful, you know initially, and most of it really

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Speaker 3: comes at the back of prepaid you know, subscribers that

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Speaker 3: have grown. But we're actually able to convert those subs

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Speaker 3: growth to to to really service revenue growth, which has

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Speaker 3: also grown by eleven point six. And also you know,

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Speaker 3: largely our urt poos as well, actually are actually quite

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Speaker 3: healthy at six two hundreds you know per customer, and

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Speaker 3: we're actually quite pleased with the progress so far.

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Speaker 2: Do you believe you're taking market chair mean, we've seen

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Speaker 2: Verticom's prepaid numbers start to fall. Are you taking market

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Speaker 2: share from other competitors?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I think for us it's beyond market share, right,

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Speaker 3: it's really growing the share of the wallet. You know,

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Speaker 3: South Africa is a really saturated market. People are multi

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Speaker 3: sieved in essence, so you really want to go straight

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Speaker 3: into the share of the wallet. If you could convince

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Speaker 3: customers to spend more with you than the other players,

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Speaker 3: you'd actually be winning. But you also have to figure

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Speaker 3: out what is it that customers are really looking for,

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Speaker 3: and we think data is actually quite key, both five

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Speaker 3: by and also mobile. And when you do that, you

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Speaker 3: know quite correctly and actually are able to create really

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Speaker 3: specific offers that actually talk to their own to their

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Speaker 3: own behavior and are actually also contextualist into their own

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Speaker 3: towns as well. Right, it really works, It really works.

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Speaker 3: And it's about the share of the wallet all the time.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this is deals that attract certain people, you

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Speaker 2: tailor it to each one, use AI to do that.

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Speaker 2: But price still matters, right, So everybody wants value for money,

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Speaker 2: that's one thing. They still want to pay as little

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Speaker 2: as possible. How important does price in that consumer behavior.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think price value, but also context as well. Right,

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Speaker 3: so I want to well recharge you know, my airtime

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Speaker 3: and actually convert into data to do something could be

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Speaker 3: either streaming services or WhatsApp and also and all you

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Speaker 3: know TikTok right on social media. So if you're able

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Speaker 3: to transulate you know, those needs that customers, you know,

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Speaker 3: do you seek for, and you're able to create a value,

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Speaker 3: create value for them, you know that actually meets the

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Speaker 3: right price point with the amount of data that they

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Speaker 3: actually need, you'll be able to win. So at times

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Speaker 3: it does become about price, but I think in the

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Speaker 3: long term it really becomes about value, right, it becomes

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Speaker 3: about value.

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Speaker 2: You also own BCX and they provide sort of it

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Speaker 2: system support or transformation for companies and it's had a

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Speaker 2: bit of a tough time. It's currently undergoing a review.

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Speaker 2: But the issue is because firms are not spending, what

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Speaker 2: do you think is holding them back? Is it uncertainty

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Speaker 2: of a sort of which way a I will go

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Speaker 2: that's stopping them investing in their own it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a it's a couple of things, right,

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Speaker 3: It's it's it's the transformation that each firm is going

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Speaker 3: through you know obviously you know, from one platform to

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Speaker 3: the other, but also just the depressed economy because everyone

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Speaker 3: is finding it difficult to actually grow their top line,

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Speaker 3: so the IT budget comes under pressure, which becomes difficult

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Speaker 3: to actually grow enterprise business in any case across South Africa.

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Speaker 3: But there's also been a what I call it operating

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Speaker 3: model change by by the large OEMs where they're able

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Speaker 3: to also offer services you know, directly to enterprises at

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Speaker 3: the back of you know, the AI, so the cloud migration,

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Speaker 3: because when you move to the cloud, it's it's it's

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Speaker 3: the game changes completely. It's when customer customers or enterprise

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Speaker 3: customers can actually work on top of the infrastructure stead

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Speaker 3: and actually you know, perform certain services and that ecosystem,

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Speaker 3: it becomes much more difficult to actually grow. We are

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Speaker 3: transforming the business. We've been restructuring it to make sure

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Speaker 3: that you know, at a costline, but also at a

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Speaker 3: very level for enterprises, we're actually able to start looking

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Speaker 3: at you know, product profitability to what we're offering as

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Speaker 3: a service to customers. Can we meet their needs you

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Speaker 3: know quite quickly. So we're going through that transformation. It

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Speaker 3: will continue and we were hopeful and optimistic that it

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Speaker 3: will tell.

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Speaker 2: You're competing in the home fiber market as well. There's

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Speaker 2: going to be a lot of competition there. I think

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Speaker 2: it's only going to get more intense because of the

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Speaker 2: Verticom massive merger. They'll bring a lot of money to it.

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Speaker 2: How do you compete in fiber? Is it just price?

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Speaker 2: I mean everyone's kind of got the same level of service.

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Speaker 2: I imagine it's under the ground, so it works. All

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Speaker 2: you've got ready to compete on is price.

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Speaker 3: So I mean we possibly have one of the largest

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Speaker 3: fiber networks in the country, you know, just across the country.

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Speaker 3: And when it comes to what I call last male fibers,

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Speaker 3: well who actually have a significant share, And for us,

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Speaker 3: it was always about you know, can you really monetize

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Speaker 3: what's on the ground, which is the question asking me.

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Speaker 3: So basically you have to build your fiber, you know,

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Speaker 3: based on demand in essence, because you're also competing with mobility,

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Speaker 3: right there's a fixed wireless product, which is you know,

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Speaker 3: what we call elt routers that customers can use in

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Speaker 3: their homes to connect to the Internet. So you've got

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Speaker 3: to be able to see the interplay between that and

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Speaker 3: fiber and actually build where you possibly will have better

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Speaker 3: demand to actually just focus on monetization of your own

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Speaker 3: fiber and also on the quality. That's why we've actually

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Speaker 3: kept a connectivity rate in the fiber space of for

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Speaker 3: around fifty percent, so which means we're able to monetize

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Speaker 3: most of the inventor that we've built on the ground.

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Speaker 3: I think it's very important because it requires a lot

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Speaker 3: of capital investment, and therefore you actually have to make

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Speaker 3: sure that you can retain that capital investment to own shareholders.

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Speaker 3: It is a competitive market. We accept that buttually, been

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Speaker 3: at it for a while, and we really understand you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, customer behavior where we build and what type

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Speaker 3: of customers who pick up this or these services. Well,

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Speaker 3: we've also seen a shift in some you know areas

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Speaker 3: where customers are picking up a lot more of what

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Speaker 3: we call prepaid fiber right you try to you know,

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Speaker 3: rather than your traditional you know, postpaid five by in essence,

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Speaker 3: So we're bringing around with propositions and looking at customer behavior,

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Speaker 3: but ensuring that you can monetize what you put on

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Speaker 3: the ground, because without that then you won't be we're

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Speaker 3: actually wasting shaholders money.

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Speaker 2: Sure, a longer see you, thank you, see you at

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Speaker 2: Telcom Consumer to appreciate it. Twenty minutes after six The

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Speaker 2: Lanely Show.

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Speaker 4: With Stephen Cruts Live on ninety two point seven and

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Speaker 4: one O six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 1: Snap and ds TV channel eight five six Well confirmation.

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Speaker 2: Today, the Competition Commission conducted search and seizure rates on

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Speaker 2: four companies in the scrap metal business on Friday. The

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Speaker 2: company the Commission says it believes Unica Iron and Steel,

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Speaker 2: Showier Steel, Score South Africa and Cape and Cape have

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Speaker 2: been fixing the purchase price of process scrap metal. Macalum

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Speaker 2: Machala is the manager of the Cartel's division at the

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Speaker 2: Competition commissioned marcalach goat evening, what exactly are you investigating?

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Speaker 2: I mean, what evidence do you have of price fixing?

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Speaker 5: Good evening to use defendant to the listeners. So we

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Speaker 5: are investigating allegations of the fixing of the purchase price

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Speaker 5: was scrap metals that these companies are using in the

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Speaker 5: production of long steel. That's what we are investigating. And

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Speaker 5: then throughout the investigation we got that some evidence that

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Speaker 5: suggests that there have been coordinating price decreases that they

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Speaker 5: apply in the market. They made some announcement when they

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Speaker 5: went to reduce the price they pay for the scrap metal,

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Speaker 5: and as a result of that, we we we approached

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Speaker 5: the High Court in Victoria to seek a warrant to

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Speaker 5: search them and see more evidence that will help us

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Speaker 5: to finalize this investigation.

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Speaker 2: So from your information, they all made separate announcements that

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Speaker 2: they were lowering their costs at the same time. Is

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Speaker 2: that what started us?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So what they're lowering is the price they pay

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Speaker 5: for the scrap metrics. So they are the purchasers of

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Speaker 5: scrub medal. They decide that this mind, we're going to

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Speaker 5: lower how much we pay for the scrap metric. So

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Speaker 5: the merchants that supplies crab metal don't really have a

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Speaker 5: bagaining power here. The buyers of the scrap metal have

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Speaker 5: the power to determine the price at which they want

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Speaker 5: to purchase the scrub medal. So what they do is

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Speaker 5: that they coordinate the price they announce, they decreases at

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Speaker 5: more or less the same time with the same exactly

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Speaker 5: the same amount to be implemented at the more or

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Speaker 5: less the same time. That's what they are they according.

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Speaker 2: So all four of them are now paying exactly the

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Speaker 2: same for scrap metal.

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Speaker 5: Is that right? So all of them they're in reducing

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Speaker 5: what they pay for the scrap metals exactly the same

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Speaker 5: amount for the same periods.

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Speaker 2: Okay and Cape Gates said today it's going to court

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Speaker 2: to declear the raids unlawful. You started out by saying

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Speaker 2: you went to the High Court to get make sure

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Speaker 2: that they were lawful. Are you confident that your warrant

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Speaker 2: so lawful and you executed them lawfully?

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Speaker 5: Of course the warrant is lawful. Is there for for

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Speaker 5: everyone to see, even themselves. We gave them the application,

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Speaker 5: we gave them the warrant, so they have everything that

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Speaker 5: we relied on to approach the High Court. I don't

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Speaker 5: know what is unlawful about it, but remember to challenge

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Speaker 5: the riders the warrant. It's a right that each an

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Speaker 5: every one that is the subject of a warrant can

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Speaker 5: choose to exercise. So if someone decides to challenge the warrant,

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Speaker 5: they are right to do so. We will definitely decern

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Speaker 5: and we're confident that our warrant it's lawful. There's nothing

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Speaker 5: that we've done that does not make the standards required

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Speaker 5: to comply with the law.

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Speaker 2: How big are these four companies operating together in the

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Speaker 2: context of the scrap metal industry? In other words, if

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Speaker 2: you cannot sell your scrap metal to these for are

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Speaker 2: there no other customers that then would be competing. What

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to get to is do these four together

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Speaker 2: have the ability to really push prices down and control

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Speaker 2: the market.

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Speaker 5: Well, well, certainly they are very big together. They command

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Speaker 5: would say, more than seventy five percent of the market.

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Speaker 5: They are big players in the production of long still

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Speaker 5: which is why they produced from scrap medal. So that

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Speaker 5: big pictures as of scrab Medal absent them, you would

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Speaker 5: not be able to sell your scraps actually, so the

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Speaker 5: market would not There will lot be a market for

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Speaker 5: purchase as them.

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Speaker 2: And we have seen situations in the past, Macale where

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Speaker 2: you've had raids on other industries. You've told us that

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Speaker 2: you have information, and there isn't always a formal investigation.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm thinking of twenty twenty two. I think

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Speaker 2: it was raids on insurance companies. In the end there

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Speaker 2: was no formal probe. Are you confident that these raids,

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Speaker 2: especially on the information you've given us and the information

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Speaker 2: you got from the raids that this is going to

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Speaker 2: end up with a formal inquiry of some kind.

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Speaker 5: Well, let's correct one to the SATI sort insured and

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Speaker 5: the investigation. It's quite voluminous data that we're going through.

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Speaker 5: We're continuously going through that data to to to extract the.

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Speaker 2: Every day is four years later. I mean that's a

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Speaker 2: long time, of course, but.

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Speaker 5: The data is huge. You would imagine the data for discovery.

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Speaker 5: How big is that data? It's unimaginable. So if the

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Speaker 5: huge data, that's the reason. If the data was not huge,

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Speaker 5: weould have finished. We don't have a reason to delay investigations.

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Speaker 2: Okay, look, I'm sorry to interrupt you. No lobbyist for

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Speaker 2: the insurance industry, but I imagine they're sleeping quite soundly

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Speaker 2: at night because four years later and you haven't lodged

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Speaker 2: a formal thing. Well, okay, clearly there are fine.

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Speaker 5: Fortunately that they know. They're involved in the extraction process,

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Speaker 5: so it's not like they're in the dark.

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Speaker 6: They know.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, So in this case as well, we are

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Speaker 5: hoping that we should be able to rub it up quickly.

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Speaker 5: We have already identified the key areas that we need

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Speaker 5: to focus on which can help us to rub it

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Speaker 5: up quickly, but it's an investigation, must that the mind.

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Speaker 5: We're going to look through the data, resist the hard

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Speaker 5: cookies and the elector it builta and try to find

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Speaker 5: as much as bidens as possible to support a prosecution.

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Speaker 2: Marcaulay, I really appreciate the time, Thank you very much. Indeed,

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Speaker 2: Macale Machala is the manager of the Cartels division at

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Speaker 2: the Competition Commission. Your views on that? On seven two

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Speaker 2: seven two one seven twenty seven minutes after six the

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Speaker 2: Money Show Market Arthur Harris's portfolio manager at Macro's Solutions

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Speaker 2: at Old Mutual, Arthur good evening at Telco. I'm doing

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Speaker 2: very very should I add another one? Very nicely?

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Speaker 5: There really are.

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Speaker 7: And if you think about the conversation that you had

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Speaker 7: with the representative, the one thing that no one spoke

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Speaker 7: about is the old fixed line business and they've posited

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Speaker 7: away from that very nicely. And I think the keyword

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Speaker 7: the data. The competitors in the mobile telephony space, its

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Speaker 7: started with really big businesses on the back of voice

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Speaker 7: and with Talcom coming to the mobile market quite a

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Speaker 7: few years later, their focus has been on data, which

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Speaker 7: which is the thing that consumers and especially young consumers

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Speaker 7: are really fixated on so they're building a very strong

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Speaker 7: business and into the data portions of it that are

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Speaker 7: really growing well.

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Speaker 2: It's been trading in international markets today. Asia's closed, the

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Speaker 2: US is closed for different reasons. But at some moment

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Speaker 2: to just talk about what's been happening with AI, because

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Speaker 2: in a way I didn't see this coming. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: some people did, but software industry and software shares have

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Speaker 2: really had a hard time. The idea is that AI

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Speaker 2: is going to write software for us, and therefore you're

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Speaker 2: not going to need it anymore. And this seems to

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Speaker 2: be really disrupting the market at the moment.

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Speaker 8: It really is.

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Speaker 7: So we've got very large companies, and example would be

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Speaker 7: the companies that design these ERP or enterprise resource programs

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Speaker 7: really taking a pounding on the back of AI that

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Speaker 7: the idea that you're going to come along you design

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Speaker 7: your own software much cheaper without the need for these

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Speaker 7: very big companies. And that's a question that still hasn't

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Speaker 7: hasn't been fully answered because it's not that simple to

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Speaker 7: replace something like a SAP program that runs a huge

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Speaker 7: companies invoicing systems and inventory systems. But I think there's

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Speaker 7: stuff on the other side as well, because what we're

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Speaker 7: seeing is that the demand for memory chips as an example,

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Speaker 7: is something where demand is really outstripping supply. So every

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Speaker 7: in video chip as an example, has a multiple of

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Speaker 7: the amount of memory that a high performance personal computer has.

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Speaker 7: So there are these memory chips on your card there,

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Speaker 7: and your phone and your PC and your Sony player station.

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Speaker 7: So all of these things are going to be under

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Speaker 7: pressure in terms of both availability of chips and the

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Speaker 7: prices of these chips. So this is an industry, the

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Speaker 7: memory chip business that's pretty much been a commodity business

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Speaker 7: for a very long time, and that's now seeing a

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Speaker 7: very very strong demand in the back of AI. So

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Speaker 7: as usual when you've got something new and strong coming along,

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Speaker 7: there's winners and losers, I mean, and.

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Speaker 2: I suppose the whole metals issue at the moment, anything

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Speaker 2: that goes into those tips is going to do quite nicely.

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Speaker 2: We get these very strange, uncorrelated effects of AI.

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Speaker 7: Well, what we expose to you in South Africa's are

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Speaker 7: mining industries and creating metals for these products. We've got

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Speaker 7: a lot of big listed mining companies in South Africa

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Speaker 7: and they're benefiting from the fact that global growth is

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Speaker 7: still still strong, so the normal sethical demand for these

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Speaker 7: metals are still there. We're seeing an ongoing trend of

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Speaker 7: dollar debasement where the actions that we're see in America

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Speaker 7: are making people worry about the dollars, So the dollar's

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Speaker 7: weakening and that tends to benefit metal prices because they're

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Speaker 7: pricing dollars, so they have to go up just to

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Speaker 7: keep everything in balance. And then adding to that, we've

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Speaker 7: got tariffs on metals coming into America.

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Speaker 5: We've got that.

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Speaker 7: Creating a whole trend of resource nationalists nationalism. So company

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Speaker 7: countries are saying, hang on, we've got these metals, rare metals,

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Speaker 7: or these metals that don't demand, we simply going to

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Speaker 7: allow them to be sold. Another example on top of

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Speaker 7: that is you've got the Trump administration creating a critical

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Speaker 7: Mineral's List and they're planning to build up stockpiles of

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Speaker 7: these things called Project Vault. So if you add to

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Speaker 7: that the fact that all of these data centers that

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Speaker 7: AI is going to build, and all of that's going

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Speaker 7: to require a lot of copper, a lot of metal

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Speaker 7: to get them into the ground, all of those things

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Speaker 7: are pretty good for the mining company. So that's something

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Speaker 7: that's kind of like sitting out there and that gives

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Speaker 7: investors in the local stock market a hedge against what's

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Speaker 7: happening in AI.

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Speaker 2: Arthur, thank you so much. Arthur Carras is a portfolio

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Speaker 2: manager at Macro Solutions at the old Neutral Investment Group.

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Speaker 1: The Money Show on seven OS.

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Speaker 2: Monday till Friday, six to a pm, So I start

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Speaker 2: again sixteen minutes to seven the time now and reports today.

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Speaker 2: I suppose because of a whole lot of paperwork under

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Speaker 2: new regulations, Uber and Bolts might find themselves to be

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Speaker 2: illegal by the end of them month. They're supposed to

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Speaker 2: be registered at the National Public Transport Regulator. It seems

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Speaker 2: that process is moving very very slowly. Doctor Mateta Makanyama

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Speaker 2: leads the Transport Systems and Operations Impact Area at the

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Speaker 2: CSI R Mateta, good evening, Good to chat again. These

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Speaker 2: are new regulations that have been in force for a

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Speaker 2: little while. I would have thought government would make sure

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Speaker 2: this process would go smoothly, and yet it all seems

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Speaker 2: to have got a little complicated.

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Speaker 5: Yes, a good, good evening, Steven. The risk of non

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Speaker 5: compliance is very high because of the specifications. You know,

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Speaker 5: of these regulations. There are a number of things in

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Speaker 5: the regulations that you know, would require quite a bit

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Speaker 5: of effort from the you know, the ehaling platforms, but

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Speaker 5: then also from government itself. It needs to be ready

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Speaker 5: to be able to implement, you know, and enforce this regulation.

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Speaker 5: So on both sides, there's a lot of effort resources

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Speaker 5: required to be able to fully comply with these regulations.

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Speaker 2: Some of the regulations make a lot of sense, but

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine for a moment a situation in which

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Speaker 2: Uber and Bolts are stopped from operating. I mean just

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Speaker 2: a livelihoods that would be lost for a few days

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Speaker 2: for a start, would be horrific.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Look, both of healing as a platform transports on

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Speaker 5: a daily basis around half a million trips public transport overall,

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Speaker 5: we're talking about forty or so million trips. There's still

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Speaker 5: a very small market, but not insignificant. Half a million

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Speaker 5: trips is a significant number. But exiting the market is

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Speaker 5: a strong possibility because in Tanzania very recently, Uber exited

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Speaker 5: the market because of the partly because of the rebilitary

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Speaker 5: environment and other factors.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that has government been a little behind

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Speaker 2: the times and these regulations. So we've had Ehaling for

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Speaker 2: let's say fifteen years or so, has it taken a

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Speaker 2: little bit too long to kind of rarely get up

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Speaker 2: to speed? And I know it's complicated because you've got

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Speaker 2: national and provincial competency competencies here.

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Speaker 5: Yes, overall public transport, the management regulation of public transport

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Speaker 5: is many steps stackwards. The regulations that are being imposed

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Speaker 5: on the Ahaling platforms, those should ordinarily have been for

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Speaker 5: about as regulations for broader public transports, for example, the

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Speaker 5: identity of drivers, identity of operators, and many other things

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Speaker 5: you would want to know. For example, for Lenna Trys

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Speaker 5: suppose qual transport. We've had incidence recently where learners were

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Speaker 5: exposed to horrific incidents, you know, some of them fatal.

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Speaker 5: So you want to know what is happening in that

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Speaker 5: space and be able to monitor. So you think that

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Speaker 5: that would be one of the priorities, but it hasn't been.

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Speaker 5: And of course I brought up public transport services. You

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Speaker 5: want to make sure that you digitalize the environment, know

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Speaker 5: what is happening, and you're able to improve use the

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Speaker 5: data being generated from these operations to improve the services.

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Speaker 5: You know, in the interest of customers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some of the new requirements are interesting. The

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Speaker 2: idea of a panic paton for customers, I mean that

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Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense to me. I know, the

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Speaker 2: drivers say they should have a panic button. Two. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we saw what happened over the weekend with that young

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Speaker 2: driver being murdered horrifically and being filmed. I'm not so

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Speaker 2: sure about some of the other ideas. So one of

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Speaker 2: the requirements is you have to be branded an Uber

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Speaker 2: car or boat car has to say it's an Uber

437
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: car or boat car. Firstly, in the luxury segment, I

438
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 2: don't know if anyone wants to arrive and spend the

439
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: money on Uber black with Uber written all over it,

440
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 2: But that's another story. But it also makes them vulnerable

441
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: to being, frankly, the victims of violence and attacks from

442
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 2: say the mini bus taxi industry. Is that such a

443
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 2: good idea to force them to be branded?

444
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 5: Well the arguments for and against.

445
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 8: Branding.

446
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 5: Branding can do good even for the operators themselves. Generally,

447
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 5: public transport that is branded, you know, increases you confidence in.

448
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 8: End users overall.

449
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 5: But of course there are some consents in our context

450
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 5: that you know, being branded, you know, with a specific

451
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 5: company may expose you to certain risks.

452
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: In certain areas.

453
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 5: So there are arguments you know, to for an and

454
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 5: against these. But then the interesting thing is that the

455
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 5: regulations don't really specify the standards. The standards for for

456
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 5: for for for for the for the branding. You can

457
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 5: place anything really and say that is my branding. They

458
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 5: must be visible, but what does it mean.

459
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 3: To be visible?

460
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 5: So there's a lot of I'm you know, uh, specifications

461
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 5: that are unclear and they can create you know, confusion,

462
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 5: you know.

463
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: Later on, as a general comment, would you suggest a

464
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: light touch approach to ehaling or should it be regulated

465
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 2: quite tightly?

466
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 5: Why why do you want to regulate? You want to

467
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 5: regulate in the interests of society to make sure that.

468
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 8: You know, you minimize.

469
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 5: Safety, security risks, as well as things that's congestion the

470
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 5: are areas parts of the world where the services are

471
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 5: congesting certain area. So you want to regulate in the

472
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 5: interest of society. But don't overregulate, because if if you're

473
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 5: you're trying to you know, coming in place of competition,

474
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 5: service quality, competition, then you are over regulating. So basic

475
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 5: things like knowing the identity of the drivers of the operators.

476
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 5: Those things should be mandatory. But other things like service

477
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 5: quality and how you design your app and all that

478
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 5: that should be left to the market, you know, to design.

479
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: So just to make sure I didn't misunderstand you, you're

480
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 2: saying they shouldn't regulate for competition. In other words, you know,

481
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: let them fight it out.

482
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 5: Yes, service quality should be regulated by a market. But

483
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 5: things like safety, you know, security and of course you

484
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 5: know things like you know, congestion. Those you want to

485
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 5: make sure that you regulate so that they the clean

486
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 5: shows our level.

487
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 2: Doctor Matteto Makanyama, thank you very much. Indeed, sir, doctor

488
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 2: Makanyama leads the Transport Systems and Operations Impact Area at

489
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: the CSI R. It's eight minutes now to seven.

490
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 9: The Money Show with Stephen Kuets is brought to you

491
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 9: by ABS as cib a Pan African bank invested in

492
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 9: your story and the potential it can unlock because your

493
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 9: story matters that as the raster f sp well.

494
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: A suggestion in f twenty four today that the will

495
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: partner with the law firm Bowman's is suggesting that the

496
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: Competition Commission might be looking into a potential inquiry into

497
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 2: the lending practices of our banks and financial institutions toward

498
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: black owned businesses. And whenever you talk about small business

499
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: in South Africa, you'll hear the comment that capital is

500
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 2: so hard to access. Colony and really is a partner

501
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 2: at Bowman's joins us now colony, good evening, What evidence

502
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: is there, I mean, is there a strong case for

503
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 2: the Competition Commission to investigate here when they just that

504
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: banks are not lending to black owned businesses and I

505
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: presume the same way they lend to white owned businesses.

506
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 8: Good even, Stephen, And to your listeners, I suppose.

507
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know of there being any evidence

508
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 4: of any particular bank that would be undertaking any sort

509
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 4: of discriminatory practices and in any event, ones which would

510
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 4: have an anti competitive outcome in the broad sort of market.

511
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 8: Right. Uh, But but that's not the suggestion here.

512
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 4: Rather, the suggestion is perhaps that there are features of

513
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 4: a market that may unwittingly give rise to anti competitive

514
00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 4: outcomes from a lending perspective. And and so it's not

515
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 4: really an argument I think that says a particular bank

516
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 4: is its conduct is anti competitive or in breach of

517
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 4: the Competition Act, if that makes any sense.

518
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: No, sure it does. I mean this would would get

519
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: under the skin of the banks and how they make decisions.

520
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: I mean, I imagine they would want to avoid an

521
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 2: inquiry if they could. I mean, they would have to

522
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: come and give probably public testimony, eventually.

523
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 8: Agreed Sivin.

524
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 4: But at the same time, it may contentuitively be in

525
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 4: the interest of the banks to have a conversation with

526
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 4: South Africa around whether are the expectations of policy makers

527
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 4: and perhaps to some extent the public realistic and correct

528
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 4: in terms of what banks who probably uh may view

529
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 4: themselves as stewards of capital, probably acting in a fiduciary

530
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 4: position in relation to you know, depositors money, right, because

531
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 4: a lot of the money obviously that that they hold

532
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 4: is depositors money, and it's not their money. And so

533
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 4: in those circumstances, is it is it right that they

534
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 4: be expected to fund what they may perceive, whether we

535
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 4: agree or not, as as being not very prudent in

536
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 4: various circumstances. And so you're quite right that obviously one

537
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 4: no no particular business once it's decision making as a

538
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 4: private institution to be subject to public scrutiny. But but

539
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 4: given the the what is seemingly a focus by different

540
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 4: sectors of our policy making bodies.

541
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 8: On the it may well actually be to the advantage

542
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 8: to have the conversation.

543
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: No, sure, I hear what you say. And I mean

544
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: also to just keep explaining that it's other people's money,

545
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: which I think is sometimes we forget. I mean, people

546
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: many people don't like banks. They find all sorts of

547
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: reasons to blame them.

548
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 5: I mean.

549
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: The other issue would be about transaction fees, and this

550
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: would not just be a not necessarily involved race, but

551
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: the fees banks charge. And wouldn't they just have to

552
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: show that they charge fees, that they compete to have

553
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: low fees, that they charge different fees, and that would

554
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: surely be enough to share to prove that they're not

555
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: anti competitive. I mean, Capitech, with much fanfare, has completely

556
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: simplified their fee structure.

557
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean, fears are always a very interesting topic

558
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 4: in the broader sort of financial services sect.

559
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 8: And if you look at banking in particular, I think

560
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 8: the the bank.

561
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 4: Fees, in other words, your monthly fees, I mean those

562
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 4: have dropped over the years.

563
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 8: I mean you've got accounts where you don't pay any fees.

564
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 4: Really, the the more interesting aspect is on your your

565
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 4: card fees and on payments, whether that be UH, domestic

566
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 4: or cross border. And that's where we seeing a lot

567
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 4: of regulatory activity, including by the Reserve Bank where they're

568
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 4: talking about potentially introducing a domestic card schemes. I think

569
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 4: that's where you're you're really seeing a lot more exciting

570
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 4: and developments, innovation and and quite friendly. That's also where

571
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 4: the FinTechs really are are starting to to to to

572
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 4: compete quite vigorously.

573
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 8: Because on your core banking service you.

574
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 4: Can understand, I mean, banking is quite an expensive endeavor

575
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 4: from a regulatory perspective in terms of the technology that

576
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 4: you have to put in place.

577
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 7: Uh.

578
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 4: And then of course living in the country where we

579
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 4: are all blessed to to live and there is the

580
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 4: unfortunate specter of crime UH and that all.

581
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 8: Has to be factored in.

582
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 4: But leaving that aside for a second is the question

583
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 4: I think that now is keeping starting to really come

584
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 4: to the fore is the cost of transacting. And I think, uh,

585
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 4: you know, the the entry of these entities like Sheen

586
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 4: and Temu and others have really brought that to the

587
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 4: fore because I think for a very long time consumers

588
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 4: actually went aware of, you know, what percentage they pay

589
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 4: on fees. But in recent times what's happened is that

590
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 4: you the the cross border fee as it were, gets

591
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 4: reported separately. You know, if you get your Netflix account,

592
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 4: for example, it will have the Netflix amount plus whatever

593
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 4: the cost is then of honoring that transaction it being

594
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 4: a cross border transaction. So that's it's a smaller subset

595
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 4: of transactions, but quite an important subset of transaction because

596
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 4: more and more trade is global. Right, We're consuming a

597
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 4: lot of entertainment apparel and the like that is not

598
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 4: necessarily domestic.

599
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 2: Sure, it's actually very interesting colony and really thank you

600
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: a partner at Bowman's just on seven o'clock.

601
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: The Money Show on seven oas.

602
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 8: Monday till Friday six to a pm.

603
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 2: Well, important developments in the last few days on the

604
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: foot and mouth outbreak today, the Western Cape confirming its

605
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 2: first ever case of the disease in dairy cows, the

606
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: announcement late last week that the outbreaks now being classes

607
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: and national disaster. Tabila and Kunja is an agricultural economist

608
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: joining us now to be a good evening. I mean,

609
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,479
Speaker 2: obviously farmers are very worried about this, and they've told

610
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 2: us that is there something different with this outbreak compared

611
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 2: to other outbreaks, isn't much bigger than what we've seen

612
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 2: in the past.

613
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 5: According to Steven, Yeah, the the current food and What

614
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 5: disease in software is probing to be very much unforchable

615
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 5: and also because of the fact that you know, it

616
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 5: has spreads to an area that it has previously not

617
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 5: been into it so and as a result it is

618
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 5: causing a lot of panic, which is why you have

619
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 5: seen a lot of you know, discussions from different stakehold

620
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 5: as you know, organized groups and of course at science

621
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 5: clashing in terms of the ideas of views. But the

622
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 5: point is the current food and what disease is really

623
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 5: a problem in the country, and this is something that

624
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 5: we should have foreseen, you know, sometime ago, but unfortunately

625
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 5: that has not happened for a number of reasons. But

626
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 5: at the stage we are here and as a result,

627
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 5: t nique is somehow the risks or its own because

628
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 5: you know a lot of people are seen to be

629
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 5: going to be taking some drastic decisions. You know, at

630
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 5: times there have been purpose of some people, you know,

631
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 5: moving animals in a manner that she's not really you know,

632
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 5: a safe especially from certain areas that appear to be

633
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 5: you know, you know, to be that that already ends

634
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 5: up affectioned by the disease, which is a poditionally leading

635
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 5: to the spread of it. So that is of course

636
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 5: on its own, emanating from the fear that the disease

637
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 5: is rarely having an economic impact not only on the

638
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 5: format but everyone that has a cause. The value as

639
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 5: we have seen from the experts or that are limited

640
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 5: for the twententy five years.

641
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 2: I mean, when an outbreak like the spreads to places

642
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: we've never seen it in before, either people have been

643
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: moving animals and infected animals to those places, which means

644
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: all of the quarantine efforts have failed. All the disease itself,

645
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: the actual virus has changed. It should be very disturbed

646
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: being if that's the case.

647
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is a very scary thing

648
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 5: depends off which is why it's Stephen, you know, there's

649
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 5: been these you know, talks in terms of centralizing the

650
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 5: you know, the the dissemination of the of the drugs

651
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 5: or the products that you know, are to deal with

652
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 5: the disease itselves. So because it is such a problematic disease,

653
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 5: and then of course it is with us now for

654
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 5: some time. It remains critically that you know, we we

655
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 5: take steps you know, and and fuller the regulations pads

656
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 5: that are also you know, into the standards that is

657
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 5: is the International standards of which so Africa in its

658
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 5: own is also a member and the signatary of those

659
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 5: countras that are within the World Organization for Animal Health.

660
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 5: So yes, it remains an important thing. But unfortunately, Stephen,

661
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 5: at this stage, we we are quiet in a deepending

662
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 5: mode and as a result, you know, everyone seems to

663
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 5: be taking some decisions that are not even helping at

664
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 5: this stage. And that's that's the same part of what.

665
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: I mean, what stops an outbreak that this quarantine, Yes,

666
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: difficult to do, but in the end of vaccines, isn't it.

667
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 2: And we're still really waiting for the mass vaccination.

668
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know with the vossoms themselves, you'll recall, you know,

669
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 5: we only started producing vaccines of ourselves and South to

670
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 5: r See only percent times and and the week we

671
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 5: only produce around two thousands, you know, and if you

672
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 5: do that the whole yayre going to have around maybe

673
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 5: just a little lesser than a million. And given the

674
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 5: heads they are about forty million of counts that we

675
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 5: need to you know, and then given the twelve months

676
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 5: that we've given, that is from now until next year

677
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 5: we have to vaccinate. Then it means that a lot

678
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 5: is still a stake, you know, which is why there's

679
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 5: been these talks of even going afire as bringing in

680
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 5: the heavy involvement of other private laboratory and also the

681
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 5: terms of imports. But unfortunately, when it comes to that,

682
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 5: even we can't just do that because remember, the government

683
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 5: needs to be the one that is going to bring

684
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 5: the rest there necessary u you know, my medication to

685
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 5: a specific you know, disease that we have over remember

686
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 5: full and what disease is not one strain, It has

687
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 5: a couple of strains. So therefore, if we just let

688
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 5: anyone else to bring a different type space on whoever,

689
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 5: you know, it's going to cause more problems than to

690
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 5: solve them, which is why we're going to even lose

691
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 5: you know, the status that you've already actually lost. But

692
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 5: we still want to somehow in the next few months

693
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 5: of coming years being able for again that and continue

694
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 5: exporting you know, a bief which allowed the diefenders to grow,

695
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 5: because you'll recall not so long ago we were not

696
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 5: important that is worth depending on impulse to sustain our

697
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 5: local supply and consumption. But because we have grown, and

698
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 5: of course that exports have been part of that, we

699
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 5: have become such a bigger in a produce of beef

700
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 5: and the past or the southern part of the continent.

701
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 5: But at the stage we are really at risk of

702
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 5: losing all that. I mean, as I was telling the

703
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 5: elia On that we have seen some twenty five percent

704
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 5: degrees above ten thousand times of people that this declined

705
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 5: as of last year in terms of the quantities that

706
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 5: we've been selling to the world.

707
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's likely, and I think people are

708
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: blaming government for this, and I should warn you to

709
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: beilate that the pepin and name Sarah, who's the Deputy

710
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 2: dot DT for agricultural Production, listens to the show and

711
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 2: has phoned in before. So careful how you answer the

712
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: next question. But should governments have moved more quickly? I mean,

713
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: who is that a problem?

714
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 6: You know?

715
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 5: I think a seven one. We need to be really

716
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 5: careful in terms of blaming people for certain of these things, because,

717
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 5: for one, I mean, we we have known that not

718
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 5: only for the accola setup. But across the departments they

719
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 5: have been cuts in certain budgets for everything. I mean

720
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 5: for almost all the provinces. You will go together and

721
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 5: you'll go to a N K, S and kpill see

722
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 5: that there are some positions that are key positions that

723
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 5: have not been filled. And then when you're bringing the

724
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 5: issue of production, that is the verbs themselves. There's been

725
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 5: in a number of you know, repoints that we have

726
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 5: we don't have enough you know that that we need

727
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 5: in the country, farm and moving us far and whatnot

728
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 5: and not the key issues that it is very expensive

729
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 5: to train one right, so given that in the department itself,

730
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 5: it has positioned the costs that have not been failed

731
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 5: that national and the professional level. It is because of

732
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 5: the money. So if we are to say specifically it's

733
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 5: because of one person or I think that is a

734
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 5: round approached to it. Of course, the state you know,

735
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 5: could have been in some areas, could have been able

736
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 5: to done or do better for a number of presents.

737
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 5: But you know, unfortunately because of the capacity issues somewhere

738
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 5: else West Crostence now wasting keep is really pushing it

739
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 5: and again on its own cap I know the government

740
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 5: shall you know, leaders, they they have not real they've

741
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 5: been saying that there are some boats that they are

742
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 5: present because of compassible issues, so if the government pay.

743
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 5: But unfortunately this time around, it is really exposing some

744
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 5: of those you know issues that you have been there

745
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 5: existing and piling up over the years. As a result,

746
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 5: now we're dealing with too consummernationement issues.

747
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: And I mean that really does need to get sorted out.

748
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: I mean, farmers must be looking at what's happening and

749
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: thinking they're going to lose their entire livelihod, They're going

750
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: to lose their herds.

751
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 5: It is scary. It is scary. It is stimn especially

752
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 5: for the guys that are on the derect because there

753
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 5: it sends to be an issue the their innut is

754
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 5: very sensitive to as much as it was for instance,

755
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 5: for the case of the layers when you have the

756
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 5: issues around the Abian influence and so the diseases accept

757
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 5: the industry differently with presently now that the derect guys

758
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 5: are really really feeling it. That's why you're seeing the

759
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 5: pressure across the province of Catherine, because it's one of

760
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,439
Speaker 5: the leading for yourselves in their production. Then some part

761
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 5: of the Western Cape, Eastern cap. So we are really

762
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 5: seeing that farmers they depending mode understandable. So given the

763
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 5: implications the economy to lost that poment result of this,

764
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 5: because I mean, for for one, just lose millions just

765
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 5: because you know of the typicalty if one is to

766
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 5: look at that, it's really something that one should be

767
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 5: afraid of. And we cannot really blame them when that

768
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 5: tynique a kickskin because the other one that are injuncing

769
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 5: a lot of money into this ro loans, you know,

770
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 5: all other kind of financially injection to be a business tabilla.

771
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: And Kunjab really appreciate that, thank you very much. Indeed,

772
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 2: the agricultural economists, I mean, I know that the minister

773
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: John Stenasen has been dealing with us other officials too,

774
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: and you sort of look at at a disease that

775
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 2: moves as quickly as foot and mouth and you realize

776
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 2: how hard it is to stop. So that is of

777
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 2: course a huge issue. And in some cases they're just

778
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 2: they just are impossible to stop and it just has

779
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 2: to run its courses.

780
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 3: We know.

781
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: The thing of course is vaccines, and that seems to

782
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 2: really we took our eye off the ball. There, So

783
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 2: that's really what's going to have to happen, but surely

784
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 2: we can speed up the production of that twenty minutes

785
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: after seven.

786
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: The Money Show Business books.

787
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,919
Speaker 2: The book that we're looking at this week is called

788
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: Compounding Advance, which how small steps build big businesses. Spy

789
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: Graham Mitchell. He's a business coach and he joins us now, Graham,

790
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: good evening, Thanks for your time. Your sort of secret.

791
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: What you suggest is focused execution, sort of quarter on quarter.

792
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 2: Why is focused execution so important in the context of

793
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 2: starting a business and going from sort of small to beg.

794
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 7: Good evening, Stephen, and good evening to your listeners. What

795
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 7: we've seen, Stephen, is having worked with small and medium

796
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 7: sized businesses for the last fifteen years, it's given us

797
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 7: a great perspective of what drives exceptional results in these businesses.

798
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 5: And what we've seen is.

799
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 7: Those clients that are able to choose a few of

800
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 7: the right priorities each quarter, execute brilliantly well on them,

801
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 7: then reap the benefits from that, and then heat this

802
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 7: in the next quarter, and do this consistently over a

803
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 7: period of time. They effectively create a compounding effect in

804
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 7: their business where each step forward builds on the previous step,

805
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 7: and this then works that the founder and the leadership

806
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 7: team are able to then build real momentum and get

807
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 7: real results in their business.

808
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 2: Is it about knowing what to concentrate on so three

809
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 2: things rather than fifteen things?

810
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 7: Absolutely, Stephen. It's very critical that you choose the right priorities.

811
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 7: Just as in investing, you need to choose the right

812
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 7: investments to invest in if you want to benefit from

813
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 7: compounding returns, the same applies in choosing the right few

814
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 7: priorities and making sure you.

815
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 3: Get that right.

816
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 2: How do you tell which is which? And I mean,

817
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 2: you know this is it's interesting. We've had a conversation

818
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,320
Speaker 2: with a small business expert about this. Is one of

819
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 2: the reasons I'm interested in your view because for a

820
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: lot of people, the entrepreneur, the person who starts the business,

821
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: kind of does everything and that's what often makes running

822
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 2: a small business so difficult.

823
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 7: Yeah, so choosing the priorities can be tough. But what

824
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 7: I've typically found is that the trepreneers can choose the

825
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 7: right priority. The hardest part is saying no to all

826
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 7: the other things they want to do. So I usually

827
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 7: find choosing the right priority is easier than saying no

828
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 7: to doing all the other things.

829
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 2: Some of the other things might feel a bit burning

830
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: that they need to be dealt with. You have to

831
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 2: be able to say no.

832
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 7: Well, that is the challenge Stevens. So that tends to

833
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 7: be the tougher challenge. I mean, usually entrepreneurs have a

834
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 7: good sense of their businesses and what is the critical

835
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 7: thing to move forward that you're having a business coach

836
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 7: help you in your business can also ensure that they

837
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 7: bringing a level of perspective to you in helping you

838
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 7: choose the right priority and also having a good team

839
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 7: around you will also improve the chances that you choose

840
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 7: the right priority.

841
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: You suggest that people who need businesses also need to

842
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 2: have a lot of self awareness. Why is that so important.

843
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 7: It's very important because as the business grows, so your

844
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 7: leadership needs to evolve. And so the challenge for a

845
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 7: lot of entrepreneurs is you know, for a successful entrepreneur,

846
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 7: they often have a particular view of the world that's different.

847
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 7: That's why they started the business. I've seen an opportunity.

848
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 7: They have a different view of how something could be done.

849
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 7: They also need to have a fairly high level of

850
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 7: confidence to start the business. And so what happens is

851
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 7: when the business reaches a level of success, they get

852
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 7: increasing confidence that their view.

853
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 5: Of the world is right.

854
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 7: It's been reinforced. However, as the business grows, certain aspects

855
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 7: of their leadership will need to grow as well. And

856
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 7: so it's really important to be able to reflect on

857
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 7: your leadership and how that's impacting the business today and

858
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 7: whether there's a need to shift your leadership style in

859
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 7: order to allow the business to continue to grow in

860
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 7: the future.

861
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: And I mean you need to sort of understand the

862
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: people who are working with you as well. You need

863
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 2: to know them quite well. If you don't, that's not

864
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: going to work.

865
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 7: Yes, absolutely, And so your ability to judge your impact

866
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 7: on others because different people on the team, you may

867
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 7: need to adjust how you lead and work with those

868
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 7: people and be able to identify those differences.

869
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 2: The clients you've been working with, I think there are

870
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 2: about one hundred and eighty of them, which is quite

871
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 2: a long list. Graham. I mean, I presume you have

872
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: examples where this idea of just focusing on the execution,

873
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 2: focusing on the priorities, you will have examples of where

874
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 2: that's really work for businesses and how it's paid off

875
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: over the longer run.

876
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,760
Speaker 7: Yes, absolutely, Stephen. We've got many clients that have started

877
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 7: out with us maybe doing thirty or forty million a

878
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 7: year in revenue, and today are doing, you know, several

879
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 7: hundred million a year in revenue. And yeah, that's how

880
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 7: we've been able to see what are the things that

881
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 7: allowed them to unlock that in their business.

882
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: I think some people when they pick up a book

883
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 2: about small business, and I'm sorry to say this, gram

884
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you know this, there are many of

885
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: them that they will be looking for a silver bullets,

886
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 2: a sort of magic thing. If I just do this,

887
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 2: or if I just do this differently, you know, it's

888
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 2: like losing weight Suddenly it'll all work and it'll be

889
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 2: fine and I'll be guilt free. It's kind of not

890
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 2: like that. So when people read your book, what do

891
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: you think they're going to get They aren't going to

892
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 2: get from other from other books in this space. And

893
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 2: I must say for a lot of people, it is

894
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 2: really about simplifying life, which is to an extent what

895
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 2: I think you try to say.

896
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 7: Yes, that's correct. They're not going to get a quick

897
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 7: win so the bullet, but what they are going to

898
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 7: get is a clear roadmap that if they follow it

899
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 7: and stay consistent to follow it, they can get exceptional

900
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 7: results in their business.

901
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 2: And how long does it take to go from small

902
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: to let's say medium size. There is no quick fix.

903
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 2: You need to know that it's going to be ten years.

904
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: It's a long haul to make this work.

905
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 7: It is a long haul, and so ten years could

906
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 7: well be the number. It obviously differs from business to

907
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 7: business because there will be certain factors that might aid

908
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 7: you and speed up the process if you're in a

909
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 7: market that's growing quickly. But yes, the journey is probably

910
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 7: longer than you would like it to be. But if

911
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 7: you follow the process and stick to the principles, you

912
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 7: can have a very successful outcome.

913
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: Graham Mitchell, thank you very much. Indeed the author of

914
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: the book Compounding Advantage, How Small Steps Build Big Business.

915
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: How Money Show How I make my money?

916
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: Twenty three minutes now to eight the time. I mean,

917
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 2: when you go into a shopping center, have you ever

918
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 2: given any thought as to why you're at that shopping

919
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 2: center and why you went there and not to somewhere else.

920
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 2: There's some shopping centers I'm very happy to give examples

921
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 2: of prest when I've gone in and I thought this

922
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: place is a mess, or that feeling of dread, or

923
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 2: I have.

924
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 8: To go and park there.

925
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 2: I'm going to take the small car and it's still

926
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 2: not going to work and they don't have a parking app?

927
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 2: What's wrong with them? And then you get others, but

928
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: I think, well, actually, no, no, no, love, it's fine,

929
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: I'll go. It's okay, don't worry and almost look forward

930
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: to the trip. And if you want to know why

931
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: you might feel like this when you approach a shopping center, well,

932
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 2: our guest tonight has some of the answers. Poor Gerard

933
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 2: is the managing director of Flanagan and Gerard Property. They

934
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 2: retail property developers and investors, and I'm guessing he's probably

935
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 2: a pretty irritating person to go shopping with because you'll

936
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 2: be looking around all the time. Paul, good evening, Thanks

937
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 2: so much for coming in.

938
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 8: Good evening, Steven, thank you for having me at the beginning.

939
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 2: Just as a general thing, why does some shopping centers

940
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: work and while some just disasters?

941
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 6: Well, I think that some shopping center developers choose to

942
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 6: develop shopping centers based on the income stream they think

943
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 6: they're going to achieve and don't really focus on the

944
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 6: ultimate end user, the customer, because it's all about customer experience.

945
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 6: There's so much variety and so many shopping centers out there.

946
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 6: Unless you're focusing on the end user, the consumer, and

947
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 6: making it the easiest possible journey for the consumer, you're

948
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 6: missing out. And like the first point of call if

949
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 6: you're developing a convenience center would be left in, left

950
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 6: out on the way home from their work. Yes, because

951
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,439
Speaker 6: nobody wants to cross the median on the way home.

952
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 6: But there's I mean, obviously there's so many extra things

953
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 6: that you can do to make the shopping center better.

954
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 6: You want to be able to push a trolley from

955
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 6: the supermarket to your car. Sur Africans are lazy. They

956
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 6: don't want to change. They don't have to walk upstairs

957
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 6: or walk or use the escalator or a lift. In

958
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 6: some shopping centers where there's structured parking. Making sure lighting

959
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 6: is adequate because people feel insecure when the lighting is low,

960
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 6: so you've got to get the lighting levels to make

961
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 6: them feel safe. Even if your security is excellent, if

962
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 6: the lighting levels are low, they'll feel unsafe. So that's

963
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 6: an important aspect.

964
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: I made a joke earlier when I told everyone we

965
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 2: were talking to you, and I said, you know, there

966
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 2: are three things you need to do to get a

967
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: shopping mall right, which is parking, parking and parking. Yes,

968
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 2: I mean places I go to that I know are

969
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,720
Speaker 2: slightly more expensive. I'm sorry to say this, but because

970
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 2: the parking works, parking is important. You know, we took

971
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 2: on Four Ways more. It was going through a bit

972
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,759
Speaker 2: of distress a few years ago. It was actually two

973
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 2: years ago to the day pretty much. And one of

974
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 2: the things that they didn't do is the access as

975
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 2: you entered there was there was conflict, there.

976
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 6: Were cars parked in the way, and you always had

977
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 6: to have to make a turn. And so what we

978
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 6: did is we just made it more simple. So you

979
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 6: flow in and you and you can find your parking.

980
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 6: Directional signage within parking areas is important and so yeah,

981
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 6: so the ease of getting in is more important than

982
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 6: actually ease of getting out. People are less stressed getting

983
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 6: out than they are getting in. I mean, I have

984
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,919
Speaker 6: an example from Four Ways, you know, and I'll throw

985
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 6: around the brand just because we're here, but you know,

986
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 6: I remember taking a kid's party to Bounce, and I'm

987
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 6: going to mention Bounce letter as a specific question about

988
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 6: shopping centers. And my wife and I had to take

989
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 6: it literally in turns to get the kids across from

990
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 6: where we had parked into the mall because the parking

991
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 6: was so bad you had to basically walk across what

992
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 6: looked like a runway. You know, it was really quite scary. Well,

993
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 6: that is still the case. You know, that's a structural

994
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 6: problem that we can't fix. There are multiple levels and

995
00:54:55,040 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 6: we can get people in. We did subsequently create an

996
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 6: Uber drop off and go near closer to Bounce. We

997
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 6: closed the nightclub there because you know, you don't really

998
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 6: want people drinking and people bringing their kids to the

999
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 6: same place. It's not there's a conflict there. So you

1000
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 6: want to bring like a complementary type of retail to

1001
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 6: the same place. And we prefer shopping centers that are

1002
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 6: family oriented rather than drinking oriented. There are other places

1003
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 6: for Tigers Milk and Laparada, but that's for other people.

1004
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 6: We like Spur and Bounce and Stirkinicorn and the like.

1005
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 2: I mentioned Bounce because I wanted to ask and I

1006
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: get to all my anchor tenants and all of that

1007
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: stuff in a minute, but does have having something that's

1008
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: quite rare or almost unique help as an attraction. And

1009
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 2: there are other bouncers and there is a competitor too, yes,

1010
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 2: at other shopping centers, but you would have to look

1011
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 2: quite far from them.

1012
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 6: Well, I think for us, we always want the best.

1013
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 6: So fortunately for West Mall's Bounce is their flagship and

1014
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 6: it's it's got it's got a very good range of

1015
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 6: activities for the kids. There's a clip and climb at

1016
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 6: the back, which is in addition to the trampoline park.

1017
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 6: And ultimately, what we're trying to do it four ways

1018
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 6: more specifically is create specific destinations. So we've included we've

1019
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 6: brought in a uh climbing gym called Block eleven that's

1020
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 6: uniqueness to Joe Berger, is one in Cape Town. Now

1021
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 6: we've also got Total Ninja and Shooters, which is the

1022
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 6: first in the country. Shooters is an international adult arcade.

1023
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 6: So you can do clay pigeon shooting and darts and

1024
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 6: pool and put and a whole bunch of different activities.

1025
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 8: Drinking well, no, no, the drinking is part.

1026
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 6: Of it, but you know that's what And then obviously

1027
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 6: we've got a pedal, and we've we've created this thing

1028
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 6: called the Urban Playground, which is a skate park. So

1029
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 6: we've tried to bring in many people for reasons other

1030
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 6: than shopping. Because four Ways More was volumeless and it

1031
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,479
Speaker 6: had a lot of vacancy and we needed to create

1032
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 6: energy and then we'd populate the retail around the energy.

1033
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,800
Speaker 2: So when I was young, which was in a different millennium,

1034
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 2: you would go and I would spend a lot of

1035
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 2: time as a teenager on a Friday or Saturday night

1036
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 2: going to the movies because that's what you did, yes,

1037
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 2: and all of the stuff that happened around it. You

1038
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 2: go and get an ice cream because no one had

1039
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 2: money for a stake or any of those things. Yes,

1040
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 2: I don't know that young people go to them go

1041
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 2: to the mall to watch a movie anymore. So what

1042
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: do you Is there something that replaces movies? Do movies

1043
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 2: still have a pool that I'm not aware of?

1044
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1045
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 6: I mean I have a teenage daughter and she goes

1046
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 6: to the movies, or at least that's what she tells

1047
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 6: me when she goes to meet her friends or some

1048
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 6: boys sometimes. So it's a combination of that. You know,

1049
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 6: a lot of the time the teenagers are going to

1050
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 6: just walk around in window shop. They often don't have

1051
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 6: a huge amount of cash flow, so they they'll buy

1052
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 6: something smaller debonairs maybe and go get an ice cream

1053
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 6: and maybe go to a movie. But yeah, movies have

1054
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 6: definitely dropped off. Content at the movies also plays a

1055
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 6: big role as to whether people are going to go

1056
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 6: or not, and I'm we're constantly in communication with the

1057
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 6: cinema houses to find out what's big. And you can

1058
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 6: see the attendances are very much correlated to the quality

1059
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 6: of the movie. And there's fewer bums and seats for

1060
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 6: sure because people have got access to entertainment at home.

1061
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 6: But there are other reasons for people going to the mall,

1062
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 6: and it's mostly about socialization. You know, kids have got

1063
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 6: all their entertainment at home, so they actually want to

1064
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 6: meet up and do things. So whether it's adventure golf

1065
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 6: or tenpin bowling or climbing. My son who's now twenty two,

1066
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 6: he's almost every day at always more at the climbing gym.

1067
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 6: So yeah, we're trying to create a place for people

1068
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 6: to meet and spend time. And then obviously four ways.

1069
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 6: More specifically, we're create a very unique space on the

1070
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 6: corner of Cedar and Vtcorpen which we'll be opening later

1071
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:07,959
Speaker 6: this year, which is going to include a whole bunch

1072
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 6: of high end quality restaurants and delis, some of which

1073
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 6: you've probably shopped at. I don't want to give too

1074
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 6: much away the thank you so.

1075
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: When you do that, right, Yeah, that's only going to

1076
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 2: work if you can get traffic in and out quickly,

1077
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 2: which means that you have to get the traffic lights

1078
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 2: to work. The uros have to be able to take it,

1079
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 2: because I mean, I'm presuming you know this, but four

1080
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 2: ways traffic pretty much at any time can be a disaster.

1081
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 2: And I'm being very polite when I use that word

1082
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 2: so much on how do you move the traffic now?

1083
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 2: And let's be clear as well, shopping centers middle class

1084
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 2: people who have them are going to use their card.

1085
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 6: So four ways is a very interesting point. When we

1086
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 6: took it over, we said to the powers that be,

1087
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 6: which were the owners and the banks that are all

1088
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 6: representing four Ways, that we don't believe that you're going

1089
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 6: to fix four ways moll by just looking at four ways. More,

1090
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 6: we actually had to look at the whole precinct, so

1091
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 6: we put together a four Ways improvement district. We went

1092
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 6: to Growth Point and Sogo Sun, from Monte Casino, Burstone Fortress,

1093
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 6: all the big land owners all the way down to

1094
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 6: stan City, including Stan City, Dane Fern, four ways gardens

1095
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 6: and we've got a voluntary improvement district and one of

1096
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 6: the first exactly what Santon has. And then we went

1097
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 6: to Cartrans and we got them to do the adopt

1098
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 6: a robot campaign, so we introduced that and what it

1099
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:37,320
Speaker 6: means is that every property owner has the traffic light

1100
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 6: and backup power so if there's an issue, it will

1101
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 6: continue to operate. We've also planted trees, we're getting street

1102
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 6: lights working, and we've been working with the taxis and

1103
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 6: hawkers to clean up the streets. It's not a perfect science,

1104
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 6: it's a work in progress, but it's definitely better than

1105
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 6: it was when we started. But yes, that's important. You know,

1106
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 6: everything around four ways is as important as the MA

1107
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 6: all itself.

1108
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 2: When you approach them, are so four ways or another

1109
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 2: one you've taken over morning side? Now holy you have

1110
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 2: to have and everyone knows that. The anchor tenants so

1111
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 2: in sort of you know, middle class South African terms

1112
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 2: all words, but also also a Checkers or a Pick

1113
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 2: and Pay or whatever. And for something that's quite big,

1114
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have just one, you'd have a couple. How

1115
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 2: do you get that mixture right?

1116
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 6: So the anchor tenants are really there to draw energy,

1117
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 6: draw foot traffic in there, and then obviously you'll you

1118
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 6: make up a lot of the rent that you need

1119
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 6: to make the development work with the line shops that

1120
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 6: feed off the anchor retailers. So you want to bookend.

1121
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 6: What I mean by that, you you want to place

1122
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 6: them on opposite ends of the shopping center so that

1123
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 6: you can have a flow of energy and even flow

1124
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 6: of energy between. Like Morning Side has got a Pick

1125
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 6: and Pay downstairs and a Willie's upstairs, and we've got

1126
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 6: to Clicks as well downstairs. And I guess Tasha's forms

1127
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 6: a bit of an anchor in morning Side. And really

1128
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 6: you want the flow in between because you want the

1129
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 6: guys in between to be able to pick up the

1130
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 6: trade from these big anchor retailers.

1131
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 8: Four ways.

1132
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 6: On the other hand, is about eight anchor retailers from Walmart, Checkers,

1133
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 6: Hyper Pick and Pay, Woolworths, Ibger's and so on.

1134
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 2: You are so certain brands are complementary. So I think

1135
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 2: Checkers or Pick and Pay and a Woolworths. Yes, that

1136
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 2: Checkers and Pick and Pay are not they are competitors, correct,

1137
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 2: So I presume the bigger the shopping center. I mean,

1138
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:34,720
Speaker 2: I remember, I can't I don't know. I couldn't give

1139
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 2: you the name now, but I remember spending a week

1140
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 2: in Richard's Bay and being amazed at the shopping center

1141
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 2: there seem to have all of the supermarkets in one place. Yes,

1142
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 2: how do you manage that relationship? Because at a certain

1143
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 2: size it would actually work to have competitors, but below

1144
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: that certain size is not going to work. They're gonna

1145
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 2: fight it out in the street.

1146
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're right.

1147
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 6: You know. The thing is is that you want the

1148
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 6: energy in your center, and if there's going to be

1149
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 6: an opportunity for that anchor to go across the road,

1150
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 6: you're just going to be splitting their energy. So if

1151
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 6: your shopping center has the capacity to be big enough,

1152
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 6: and you've got the ability to have a Checkers on

1153
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 6: one end and a Pick and Pan the other end,

1154
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 6: and maybe the Willies in the middle, you know, people

1155
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 6: are brand loyal You know some people are click shoppers.

1156
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 6: You know clicks Loyalty club card is extremely popular, especially

1157
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 6: and more in the rural areas, disk them more in

1158
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 6: the metros. But everybody's got their brand, and some people

1159
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 6: are clicks and disc and checkers, and some people are

1160
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,920
Speaker 6: pick and pan and discm shoppers, and some are a

1161
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 6: combination of all of the above. So we want to

1162
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 6: give our customer every possible opportunity to want to shop

1163
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 6: in our shopping center. There are obviously types of retail

1164
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 6: where it's complementary, where a person wants to shop at

1165
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 6: a truerse and a fashini because they want to be

1166
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 6: able to compare that top or those those shoes, or

1167
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 6: you know, maybe mister Price has got a slightly better

1168
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 6: deal on a new pair of denims. So you know,

1169
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,160
Speaker 6: you want to have all of them together. When you

1170
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 6: have all of these shops together, they want certain things

1171
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 6: from you, and they don't just want the life and

1172
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 6: water to work. They also want data about the customers

1173
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 6: coming in. Yes, so do you count the people coming in?

1174
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 6: We do so, and it's changed, it's evolved over the years.

1175
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 6: You know, in the past, it was really just a

1176
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 6: foot counter that would pick up a person walking past

1177
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 6: an entrance, but now we use cameras over the entrance,

1178
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 6: which can give you a slightly better idea of who

1179
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 6: it is that's walking in and out. Very important for

1180
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 6: retailers to understand the entrances that people come in and

1181
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 6: out of, as well as the quantum of people that

1182
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 6: enter the shopping center. You're if you've got paid for

1183
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 6: parking that you'll get stats on the number of people

1184
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 6: entering and exiting by car. And then I guess by taxi.

1185
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 6: You know, you four Ways has got a massive taxi

1186
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 6: rank and a big taxi holding facility underneath it, and

1187
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 6: we probably get about twenty five to thirty percent of

1188
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 6: our customers coming by taxi.

1189
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 2: So can you tell how many people come in and

1190
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 2: how many of them spend money and how many of

1191
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:04,919
Speaker 2: them don't?

1192
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 6: Ye kind of We get turnover reports. At least each

1193
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 6: retailer will give us the amount of turnover that they

1194
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 6: generated in a monthly basis, and we use that to

1195
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 6: identify either whether a retailer is struggling or whether an

1196
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 6: area of the mall is underperforming. Obviously, if everybody in

1197
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 6: one area is has the turnovers challenging, we need to

1198
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 6: find an energy, some kind of energy to bring to

1199
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 6: that area in order to assist all the retailers, because

1200
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 6: that's a low energy point of them all. If it's

1201
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 6: just one retailer within the whole area that's not performing,

1202
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 6: then we need to go and have a chat to

1203
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 6: the retailer to see whether we can help them. Some

1204
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 6: retailers are beyond help and sometimes you need to find

1205
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 6: a replacement. And that's kind of the science of it.

1206
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 6: It's not terribly scientific, but that's it.

1207
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 3: That's what we do.

1208
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 2: And so you will probably be able to tell sort

1209
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 2: of roughly what the average spend per month in them

1210
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 2: all is. Yes, per person, Yeah, we do so.

1211
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 6: It's obviously total turnover divided by a number of people.

1212
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 6: So all malls are different. You know, the spend per

1213
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 6: head varies. You know, some shopping center We've got a

1214
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 6: shopping center in Port Elizabeth called Boardwalk Mall. It has

1215
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 6: a huge number of foot traffic for the total turnover

1216
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 6: and that's because a lot of people use it to

1217
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 6: park and then walk to the beach. So they walk

1218
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 6: through the shopping center, pick up an ice cream along

1219
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 6: the way, but they're not spending as if they're going

1220
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 6: to supermarkets and pharmacies. But then and morning side has

1221
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 6: also got a high foot traffic relative to the total turnover.

1222
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 6: But you know, ultimately what we're trying to do with

1223
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 6: every shopping center is identify their basic needs, which is food, pharmaceuticals, liquor.

1224
01:06:57,400 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 6: Are those are your general convenience needs. Then there's a

1225
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 6: bit of bank and depends on where you are in

1226
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 6: the country. The moral aerural areas prefer actual banks and ATMs,

1227
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 6: but places like Morningside and the neighborhood squhere they don't

1228
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 6: need banking because most people haven't seen the inside of

1229
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 6: a bank for years. You know, we all banking online

1230
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 6: or have a private bank that phones us up and

1231
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 6: asks us what we need to do.

1232
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 2: We're speaking to poor Gerard How I make my managing money,

1233
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 2: the managing director of Flanagan and Gerard Property Group, an

1234
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 2: expert on shopping mall seven minute.

1235
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: State our money show How I make my money?

1236
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 2: Five minutes to eight talking to Poor Gerard, the managing

1237
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 2: director of Flanagan and Gerard Property Group. They're experts on

1238
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 2: shopping centers.

1239
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 7: Paul.

1240
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 2: Someone told me that the lighting in a shopping mall

1241
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 2: not just in the parking but in the mall. The

1242
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 2: armbiyance to use a complicated word that must matter, and

1243
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,800
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about lighting, I'm thinking about the sounds that

1244
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 2: you hear. I'm thinking maybe about music. How important are

1245
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 2: those things?

1246
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 6: I mean, they're all they're all very important, and we

1247
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 6: we try and have some background music playing. When it's

1248
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 6: really busy, you don't hear it, but when it's quiet,

1249
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 6: it kind of keeps you company because it's not nice

1250
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:10,439
Speaker 6: walking around an empty shopping center, especially early in the morning,

1251
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 6: you know, when people aren't there and it's quite you know,

1252
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 6: it's a little eerie. So having that little background sound

1253
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 6: is useful. Lighting is something we spend a lot of

1254
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 6: time and a lot of money on because lighting is

1255
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 6: very subjective and also very It plays a big role

1256
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 6: in one's emotional feel feel of the shopping center, you know,

1257
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 6: and you don't want like hospital lighting. You know, you

1258
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 6: don't want it to be too bright. So it's trying

1259
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:44,679
Speaker 6: to find the balance between bright enough and a little

1260
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 6: bit seductive, because really the lighting should come from the retailers,

1261
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 6: you know, the shops should be providing the most of

1262
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 6: the lighting, and that's when you walk around a shopping center,

1263
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 6: you don't want to be bombarded by the more lighting.

1264
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 6: You actually want the more lighting to complement the retail

1265
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 6: is in store lighting, and so we we often if

1266
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 6: we see Eckerman's who I shouldn't be.

1267
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 8: Talking about it?

1268
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 6: At four Ways More are about to do a big

1269
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 6: upgrade of their lighting. And if you go there, you'll

1270
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 6: understand what I mean. It's a and and we've been

1271
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 6: pointing that out to them, and I feel like I

1272
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 6: shouldn't have said that in case they're listening to continue.

1273
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 2: Yes, so, and I mean and then I mean, how

1274
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 2: do you choose the music? I mean, do you get

1275
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:26,759
Speaker 2: your son to use the playlist?

1276
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 5: No?

1277
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 6: I mean we we have contracts with music well in

1278
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 6: some instances with with the music businesses, but in some

1279
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 6: instances like at Taviny Mall and Toyendo, we have a

1280
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 6: radio station called Tchoice f M who have an in

1281
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 6: a kind of studio and they play everything from Choice

1282
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 6: while in them all and because it's local, it's vendor,

1283
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 6: you know, people like it and more of the Northway

1284
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 6: I think we have a Jack Randa studio as well,

1285
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 6: So we we try. We we liked to interact with

1286
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 6: our local community as much as possible. So when you

1287
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 6: start to see a you know, one of the things

1288
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 6: you have to choose is you have to work with

1289
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 6: different people. So for example, the parking, they're parking apps. Yes,

1290
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 6: they have their rivals. There's one that seems to be

1291
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 6: more cape down, one that seems to be more joke.

1292
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 6: But you have to choose one. How do you choose? Sure,

1293
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:27,799
Speaker 6: that's a good question. Well, I mean Admit has been around.

1294
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:30,280
Speaker 6: They weren't the first. There was a company called Kaching,

1295
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 6: and I think that MIT guys copied that and had

1296
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 6: a better runway because the owner of Admit, the father

1297
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 6: was the CEO of Redefined, so I think they had

1298
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 6: a bigger platform.

1299
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 2: I did not know that that's been obscured from all

1300
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:45,760
Speaker 2: of their profiles. Thank you for that.

1301
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 6: But what Admit have done is they've partnered with Redimension Capital,

1302
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 6: which is a company that's been funded by a lot

1303
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:56,639
Speaker 6: of the property groups to enhance proptech and so they're

1304
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 6: able to come up with solutions for landlords where landolds

1305
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 6: don't necessarily need to put the capital in for the infrastructure,

1306
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 6: and so they just feed off the cost per ticket

1307
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:09,519
Speaker 6: that they that they're going to make and so for

1308
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 6: a lot of landloards, that's a more effective way of

1309
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 6: getting the technology, and we don't make any money off

1310
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 6: the parking apps. It's really just a service for the customers,

1311
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 6: So yeah, why do we pay for it?

1312
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 8: Then?

1313
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 6: Exactly?

1314
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 2: We got thirty seconds and it goes fast. Is there

1315
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 2: a big future for shopping malls? And I remember at

1316
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 2: the start of COVID thinking, oh my word, what's going

1317
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 2: to happen here? Now you go there over Christmas and

1318
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 2: oh my word, it's full. It's still a big future.

1319
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 6: Shopping malls are going places and what they are as

1320
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,640
Speaker 6: they're becoming hubs for people to come and interact, you know,

1321
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 6: like at four Ways More we've got Santa Land. Every

1322
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 6: year we hosted the Rage Expot, largest e gaming expo

1323
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 6: in the country, and it's a place for people to

1324
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 6: kind of meet because now everybody's stuck at home behind

1325
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:02,639
Speaker 6: their laptops.

1326
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 2: Poor Gerard, great to talk to you so much. Thank you,

1327
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 2: Managing director of Flanagan and the Gerard Property Group.