1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: As well in Corlo Well. 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: Is joining us, a very prominent South African climate justice 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 2: activist and researcher. 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: This is our next conversation. 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 2: And bridges the gap between grassroots environmentalism and intersectional feminism. 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: It's going to make for a very interesting argument. Issues 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: are often framed in Europe and embraced completely over here. 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: I think there's more to it. 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: Argument isn't just that fossil fuels are bad for the planet, 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: but that the current energy system is a is a 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: primary engine of gender based inequality and economic exclusion. And 12 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: I'm suggesting all the trouble in the world is the 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:45,959 Speaker 2: last kick of a dying horse. 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: Patriarchy. That that's what. 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: I'm arguing, and I think this is what Colo is arguing. Well, 16 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 2: we'll chat about the feminist emergency, the disproportionate burden when 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: we come back. 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 3: You keep talk views and news with Clarence Forward and 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 3: of course an invitation for you to join in on 20 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 3: the conversation anytime via WhatsApp and seven two five six 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 3: seven one five six seven you can call on to 22 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 3: one four. 23 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 2: Four six five six seven directly engage in call o 24 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: as well. The article written in The Daily Maverick I 25 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: urge you to go there and read all of it. 26 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: Welcome and call or thank you for joining us this morning. 27 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me, Clarence. 28 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 5: Okay, Yeah, I'm proposing that we are looking at one 29 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:43,279 Speaker 5: really big change in uh in how we perceive life 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 5: and the world. 31 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: I think we're living through it at this very moment 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: in time. And I think you kind of you point 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: to that as well with a feminist emergency that you 34 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:53,639 Speaker 2: are putting on the table. 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 36 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 4: I think the key point I'm trying to make, Clarence, 37 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 4: is that So Africa's energy system is deeply exposed to 38 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 4: global fossil fuel markets, which means that any international crisis 39 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 4: like what we're seeing in the Middle East in the 40 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 4: Middle East right now, directly affects local prices, but the 41 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 4: impact is not evenly felt. It's very disproportionate to let 42 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 4: women and girls, particularly from low income household and also 43 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 4: bearing in mind that women head over forty percent of 44 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 4: households in South Africa are the ones absorbing these shocks 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 4: on a daily basis. So if we are serious about 46 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 4: energy security, we have to think beyond just supply and 47 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 4: infrastructure and start addressing their affordability. Our vulnerability and also inequality. 48 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: I get that you've argued in fact that a jazz 49 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: transition must be feminist, and we're not talking about hiring. 50 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: More women solar plants. 51 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: Are we help us to understand what structurally or rather 52 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: a structurally feminist energy grid looks like. 53 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 4: So there's there's different examples that are currently emerging that 54 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 4: we're seeing. One of the ones that I will point 55 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 4: out to is the stock fells that we are seeing 56 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 4: come up. So there's a whole idea around around solar 57 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 4: stock fells where women use the same. 58 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 6: Mechanisms they've always used. 59 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 4: So stock fells have quietly financed survivals for many families 60 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 4: and then put food on the table. They've sent children 61 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 4: to schools, and they've helped families, particularly the women laid one, 62 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 4: to build assets in an economy that excludes them. And 63 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 4: so we're seeing the rise of structures such as the 64 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 4: community owned stock fells for solar where women are coming together, 65 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 4: pulling money together in order to build us stock for 66 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 4: micro grids. 67 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can we find. 68 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: We find that the current debates is maybe dominated by 69 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: the financial interests of the global North. How do we 70 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: get grassroots and cilly African feminist perspectives to influence global 71 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,679 Speaker 2: policy at the cop kind of level. 72 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: How do we do that? 73 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 4: I think one of the things that I put out 74 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 4: in in in the opinion. 75 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 6: Right was the idea of renewable. 76 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 4: Energy as a strategy for us to be to become sovereign, 77 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 4: especially as global South states. And this makes the case 78 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 4: for renewable energy in South Africa to be to stop 79 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 4: being framed in environmental terms only, but to be framed 80 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,679 Speaker 4: as that in the current crisis that we are in, 81 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 4: when we become energy independent and basically unbundle ourselves from 82 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 4: the global tocals that exist in the energy space, then 83 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 4: we can build sovereignty for ourselves. And this would mean 84 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 4: that we use wind, solar, battery storage energy that is 85 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 4: available for us to use, sources of energy that are 86 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 4: available for us to use, and we use them to 87 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 4: build ourselves independence from being affected global crisises and in 88 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 4: that space, that's one of that's one of the ways 89 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 4: we're looking at using renewables to build a better system 90 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 4: generally for for for South Africans, but also like for 91 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 4: women in general. 92 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 2: Okay, let's let's let's understand and there's an argument here 93 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: that women are disproportionately impacted. 94 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: Let us understand that completely. 95 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 4: Okay, so in relation to how women are just proportionately affected. Right, 96 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 4: as I said earlier on, women had nearly half of 97 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 4: the households in the country, and when price shocks occur, 98 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 4: the women are the ones who have to make the 99 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,799 Speaker 4: daily trade offs. They have to decide whether their families 100 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 4: are going to have nutritious food on that day or 101 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 4: if they're going to have to move to dangerous fuels 102 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 4: like paraffine and such. And also whether they trade off 103 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 4: their safety, because the difference between paying for electricity or 104 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 4: using candles is also a safety issue, and so they're 105 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 4: burden from a health perspective, They're burden from a safety perspective. 106 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 6: They're also burden from. 107 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 4: A development perspective in that you now have a limited 108 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 4: number of hours the girl child can focus on their 109 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 4: schoolwork because some of them are now having come back 110 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 4: from school. 111 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 6: First thing they do is to go. 112 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 4: Collect woods to try and mitigate the energy crisis in 113 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 4: the home. 114 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 6: Go and collect wood. 115 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 4: Decide how they're going to be doing the cooking, take 116 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 4: longer to do the cooking that they usually do quicker 117 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 4: if they had, you know, electricity, So those are some 118 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 4: of the trade offs that women and girls are affected by, 119 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 4: and when this happens, they lose a lot of time 120 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 4: that they could be using for their own personal development, 121 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 4: that they could be using towards educating themselves. 122 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: My guest Cola Foqua, fossil advan advocacy campaigner on the 123 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: line with us, Term has sent us a WhatsApp. 124 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: This conversation makes no sense, says says Term. 125 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: Essentially, my guest argues that the fossil fuel industry relies 126 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: on the invisible labor of women. Uh and when the 127 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: climate chiefs and energy becomes unaffordable, women bear the heaviest load. 128 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: I think you kind of to quick kind of trigger there. 129 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: We are connecting the DOTSA and maybe you can be 130 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: specific about the question or the responses of in colo 131 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: and we can help you to understand or maybe you 132 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: Why is it that Tim can't understand what you are saying? 133 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: Why is it that some men are deaf to the 134 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: message that you seek to put on the table. 135 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 4: I think where it starts is one connecting our energy 136 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 4: system and the energy property that we struggle with in Africa, 137 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 4: with geopolitics in general. 138 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 6: Right, that's usually the struggle. People are. 139 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 4: Very quick to localize the issue and not see the 140 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 4: system as like a global system that is perpetuating the 141 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 4: energy crisis. Also, men tend to not want to look 142 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 4: at the glitters that women carrying society in general, whether 143 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 4: it's from a perspective of unpaid care work, because this 144 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 4: is what it ties to the amount of unpaid carework 145 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 4: that women and girls have to perform in the home 146 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 4: in order to make sure that it's functioning right. Often disregarded. 147 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 4: No one looks at what is the difference between the 148 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 4: girl child who will go and collect wood in order 149 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 4: to come back and cook in a home that's suffering 150 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 4: from energy poverty and a boy child who has more time. 151 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 6: To sit and look at their books. No one looks 152 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 6: at that difference. 153 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 4: No one looks at how women are having to make 154 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 4: these trade offs between am I going to walk to 155 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 4: work because the petrol increases now affected how much my 156 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 4: taxi is and use whatever extra money I would have 157 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 4: had to contri you to my transport to get food 158 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 4: on the table. What then, this means is that the 159 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 4: real impact of the energy crisis felt on the kitchen table, 160 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 4: where women have to decide whether we spend on food, transport, electricity, 161 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 4: and that's where the energy policy basically becomes real. It's 162 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 4: not in the board rooms, it's there in the household. 163 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 4: So the success of any energy system should be measured 164 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 4: at the kitchen table, should be measured at the decision 165 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 4: level where women are making those decisions. 166 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think there was some practical practical examples 167 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: through stock Fells enabling a micro grid getting women around 168 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 2: on that particular front, and I like that. It's not 169 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: just conversation, but Gwadi Nantashi and essentially your objective is 170 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: a fossil free South Africa, Guadi Mantashi arguing now for 171 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 2: us to drill and that Orange River basin off the 172 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 2: west coast of South Africa has got a lot. 173 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: Of oil there. 174 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: If we dismantle the fossil fuel economy in South Africa 175 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: and we are still very dependent on it, we need 176 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 2: to understand how we prevent a vacuum that leaves the 177 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: most vulnerable women even more economically worse off in in 178 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: in the shorter. 179 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 4: So this this issue for me becomes and if you 180 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 4: are in that what were they and and and your 181 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 4: your your fossil fuel companies are such as thing in terms. 182 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 6: Of like litture for oil and cares. 183 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: Is. 184 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 4: Energy is also globally you know traded. It's it's also 185 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 4: globally traded. It's also subject to the price shocks. So 186 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 4: it doesn't necessarily solve the issues that we are now facing. 187 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 4: It will still be exported as a raw material and 188 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 4: have to come back as an import, if you get 189 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 4: what I'm saying. 190 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 6: So going into going. 191 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 4: Deeper into fossil fuel exploration and finding new fossil fuels 192 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 4: to to depend on doesn't reduce the household vulnerability. It 193 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 4: only shifts the source of the risk. Right, So I 194 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 4: think by by pivoting to wind and solar uh, South 195 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 4: Africa can reduce its dependency on important fossil fuels. 196 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 6: And obviously this is. 197 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 4: Not done at one goal so as to leave a vacuum, 198 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 4: but it's it's built over time and this then effectively 199 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 4: insulates households and the industry price shops and supply disruptions 200 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 4: when international markets experience shocks like the ones we're experiencing currently. 201 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 4: The objective is not only to decavernize, but we also 202 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 4: need to break the link between distant conflicts and the 203 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 4: cost of daily life in South African households. 204 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Chris is also why in Chris writes morning 205 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 2: term is most likely a petrol head and doesn't like change. 206 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of that. 207 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: But essentially you are arguing that we need this green 208 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: economy not to become another side of extraction where the 209 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: same corporations simply change their branding or continuing to exploit 210 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: both the environment and labor, and that women should be 211 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 2: at the forefront of this change. That is your argument, 212 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 2: Is it not cool? 213 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, that is a good summary of what our argument 214 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 4: is and what it has been. Looking at the green 215 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 4: washing space because we work on the Fossil at Band campaign, 216 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 4: which speaks to greenwashing and disinformation that is by these 217 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 4: corporations and how they've now changed their language and they 218 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 4: look and feel to make it look like they care 219 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 4: about renewable when they are consistently all over the continent 220 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 4: starting new oil and gas projects which are still farth 221 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 4: off your projects, but claiming to be sustainable. And in 222 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 4: all of that, just if you look at it from 223 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 4: a labor perspective one, it's very difficult to the women 224 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 4: to get into those spaces. We've gone to places like 225 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 4: Uma Langa where women can tell you that if you 226 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 4: are trying to get a job in a mind, then 227 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 4: you need to perform sex for jobs type of favors. 228 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 4: They will tell you that the jobs that come with 229 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 4: these mining companies and corporations are usually for men. And 230 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 4: also they bring in migrant labor. Migrant labor comes into 231 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 4: the community, they form relationships with the women around, people 232 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 4: have children, and then when the mind closes down, they 233 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 4: leave and those women have to carry the burden of 234 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 4: raising those families. So these are the types of situations 235 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 4: that we are seeing in areas that have already been 236 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 4: ravaged five five fossil fuel corporations. Even the kind of 237 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 4: labor that they extract from the communities, it's hardly ever 238 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 4: a situation where they come in and they're like, okay, 239 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 4: where are the unemployed engineers in this province or talent. 240 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 4: They will come in and look for people who are 241 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 4: going to be cleaners, who are going to be security. 242 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 6: All the. 243 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 4: Less dignified jobs go to the people in the area 244 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 4: that the dignified, high paying jobs don't come to us. 245 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 4: So continuously expanding into fossil fuel will not change that. 246 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 6: We're the same corporation. 247 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 2: I think the point is well made, well made, and 248 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: thank you for that. 249 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: Beverley says. 250 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: The conversation makes complete sense to me and vital for 251 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 2: the equitable growth of women. I think that is the 252 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: voice that is absent in so many spheres of our 253 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 2: economy and society.