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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: o two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk at all. The Money Show with Stephen Curtis

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Speaker 2: is brought to you by abs of corporate, an investment banking,

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Speaker 2: a Pan African bank that's invested in your story because

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Speaker 2: your story matters. Good evening, I'm Stephen Curtis. Ten minutes

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Speaker 2: after six and US markets getting there first chance to

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Speaker 2: react to Trump sort of grab for Greenland, the new

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Speaker 2: tariffs and all of that, and astonishingly well, not surprising

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Speaker 2: me at all. In fact, they're sharply down tonight. The

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Speaker 2: gold price been moving up steadily through the day. And

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Speaker 2: I've made this point before, but at the end of

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Speaker 2: last year we thought maybe by the end of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty six gold will hit five thousand dollars. Now, wow,

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Speaker 2: it could be by the end of the month, by

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Speaker 2: the end of January. It really is quite extraordinary. At

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Speaker 2: the NHI, we spoke last week to the boat to

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Speaker 2: one of the people involved after enokot Guana, the finance

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Speaker 2: minster said he wanted a truce over the NHI for

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Speaker 2: people to drop their court applications against at Katlem Tody

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Speaker 2: is the managing director of the Board of healthcare funders.

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Speaker 2: They say, nope, they're not going to sit down and

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Speaker 2: talk drm vsium Zuk was the chair of the South

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Speaker 2: African Medical Association. They say they will. You'll hear both

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Speaker 2: sides of this in just a moment. Lots of optimism

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Speaker 2: around about our economy and in fact the IMF saying

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Speaker 2: that it's upgrading our growth outlook for South Africa. Kevin

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Speaker 2: Lyn's from Standard will give you his view on that

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Speaker 2: in a couple of moments.

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Speaker 3: Also, I was.

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Speaker 2: Amazed to see and yet I should have seen it coming.

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Speaker 2: The shared disruption caused by the introduction of Chinese cars,

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Speaker 2: the unbelievable growth in the number of cars they've exported,

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Speaker 2: and what that's doing to some of our companies in motors.

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Speaker 2: They're in the automotive space. They've had to, it seems

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Speaker 2: now cut down on some of the salaries that they're

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Speaker 2: paying their work as their workers, as you can imagine,

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Speaker 2: frustrated with that. We'll hear from the Motor Industry Staff

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Speaker 2: Association and from MOTUS about that in a few moments.

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Speaker 2: I think that's going to be a very very important conversation.

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Speaker 2: So much happening around cars at the moment. Good to

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Speaker 2: hear from you tonight O double one, double A three

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Speaker 2: oh seven oh two two one four four six five

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Speaker 2: six seven.

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Speaker 1: The Lonly Show with Stephen Crutis live on ninety two

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Speaker 1: point seven and one six FM, streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 1: Media Plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 2: Well, I saw Today News twenty four having an interesting

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Speaker 2: report that two more senior executives have left Standard Bank

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Speaker 2: and they're going to abser and I mean, it seems

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Speaker 2: obvious they're following the new CEO at ABS, Kidy Fickley.

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Speaker 2: He came from Standard Bank, and there's been a little

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Speaker 2: bit of procession of some of Standard Bank's top talent.

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Speaker 2: And suddenly you start to see people following and going

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Speaker 2: from Standard Bank to ABS. And I thought I would

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Speaker 2: ask you, have you ever followed a bus somewhere? I

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Speaker 2: remember very clearly, having worked for someone for a very

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Speaker 2: long time, having left, getting a core from her saying

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Speaker 2: I need to see you about something. Talking of you

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Speaker 2: having a very the world's quickest coffee. She sort of

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Speaker 2: hinted at what her big next project was, and I said, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 2: there was another meeting, and I was very glad that

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Speaker 2: I did follow her for a very long time, in fact,

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Speaker 2: to a new place, something I hadn't really thought of

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Speaker 2: doing before. Have you ever followed a boss? How was

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Speaker 2: it for you? Sometimes you can follow a boss and

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Speaker 2: actually it doesn't work. They're not who you thought they were,

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Speaker 2: or the culture doesn't work, or maybe people don't like

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Speaker 2: the two of you together, or whatever it is. But

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Speaker 2: have you ever followed a boss? What was that like?

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people like to be remembered,

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Speaker 2: But what was that experience for you? How did it end? O?

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Speaker 2: Seven two seven two one seven o two The.

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Speaker 1: Money Show with Stephen Kruitterz on seven O two seven

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Speaker 1: o two.

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Speaker 2: Well next responses coming now to the idea of a

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Speaker 2: truce over the NHI. The Finance mister in Iguana last

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Speaker 2: week saying that the people who've brought court cases there

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Speaker 2: are nine court cases aimed at blocking it, should drop

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Speaker 2: them and instead they should sit around the table and talk. Prof.

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Speaker 2: Metz Craig Comray said yesterday said last week in fact,

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Speaker 2: he's willing to talk to government. The SA Medical Is

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Speaker 2: Association says it's happy to sit down and chat, but

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Speaker 2: the managing direct that the Board of Healthcare Funders says

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Speaker 2: they're not Cadlejomoturi is the managing director of the Board

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Speaker 2: of Healthcare Funders. Good evening. You know, Guana seems to

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Speaker 2: be opening the door to some kind of chat. Why

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Speaker 2: are you refusing to go through and sit down and

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Speaker 2: have a conversation.

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Speaker 4: Believing Steven and your listeners, the fact is we are

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Speaker 4: not refusing. We have been talking to government. I think

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Speaker 4: what needs to be clarified is what negotiation looks like

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Speaker 4: in the government's eyes. We've been talking since time immorial

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Speaker 4: when Nhi was bended. Apart from the Green Paper, we

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Speaker 4: have been talking and asking questions, asking about various challenges

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Speaker 4: that we saw with the with the COD case, and

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Speaker 4: even the COD case is a way of us seeking

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Speaker 4: clarification on how this is going to be done about.

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Speaker 4: It's not really sort to block the efforts of current

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Speaker 4: but rather to improve healthcare provision in the country.

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Speaker 2: So for the moment, you're not going to drop your

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Speaker 2: court case.

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Speaker 5: No, that that is not on the cards because we

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Speaker 5: do not have anything concrete in terms of the way forward.

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Speaker 5: I think what remains now is for us to see

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Speaker 5: whether there's any convergence on any of the matters that

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Speaker 5: we have been bringing up.

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Speaker 2: What are the main issues, I mean, what are the

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Speaker 2: major things that you disagree with government or the major

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Speaker 2: issues you need clarity on. I mean, is there anything

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Speaker 2: that government could do or say or give a binding

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Speaker 2: undertaking that would convince you to drop the case?

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Speaker 5: Maybe to answer you correctly, I'll just maybe give us

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Speaker 5: a little detail of what our court is entailed. We've

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Speaker 5: got currently two cases that are sitting in the Constitutional Court.

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Speaker 5: One of them is about the consultation processes that we

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Speaker 5: believe we're inadequate, and we believe that there are thousands

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Speaker 5: of submissions, which a lot of them not just ask

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Speaker 5: questions but actually broad concrete suggestions on how healthcare can

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Speaker 5: be improved in the in the country. There are certainly

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Speaker 5: topical issues that we talk about. I think top of

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Speaker 5: mind for most people areas around governance. How is this

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Speaker 5: going to be run? Who's going to be in control?

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Speaker 5: We've we've seen questions around from the governor's perspective, how

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Speaker 5: much power the minister is given over the fund. I

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Speaker 5: think everybody is worried about the direction that our country

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Speaker 5: had in terms of poor governance processes. We've spoken a

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Speaker 5: lot about corruption, et cetera. Think we only need to

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Speaker 5: spend too much time. That's one area. The second area

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Speaker 5: is we need clarity on where the money is going

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Speaker 5: to come from. It is interesting that we haven't had

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Speaker 5: much from Treasury in terms of their thinking, because they're

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Speaker 5: the ones who are supposed.

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Speaker 3: To bring up the money bill.

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Speaker 5: What we have are very loose suggestions from the department

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Speaker 5: regarding where money will be found, and we are not

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Speaker 5: convinced that this has really been thought out now without

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Speaker 5: those congrete suggestions, and you having the notion that one

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Speaker 5: area of health care, while not perfect, but seems to

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Speaker 5: be waking. The private sector provision is being shot down

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Speaker 5: to not exist alongside the NHI, which raises a lot

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Speaker 5: of questions about how access will be improved because everything

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Speaker 5: seems to point to access being denied to people who quiate.

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Speaker 2: Cadler, thank you, Managing director of the Board of Healthcare

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Speaker 2: Funder doctor in the sim Zukua is the chair of

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Speaker 2: the Essay Medical Association. They say they're happy to talk,

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Speaker 2: but you see, good evening, it's been a long time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for your time. Why are you happy to

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Speaker 2: sit down and negotiate?

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Speaker 6: Good evening, Steve, and to your listeners, and thanks for

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Speaker 6: inviting me Steve. You will recall that we've always been

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Speaker 6: talking to government. We've done a lot of things in

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Speaker 6: terms of the legislative processes, those green paper, white paper,

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Speaker 6: the police itself. At some point we made a presentation

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Speaker 6: in the Portfolio Committee in Parliament. The other thing that

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Speaker 6: we've done. We've also petitioned the NCP wanting their attention.

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Speaker 6: We wrote a letter to the President and you know,

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Speaker 6: during all that period there was no feedback, not even

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Speaker 6: acknowledgement of our engagement with government.

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Speaker 2: So it's really in.

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Speaker 6: Uh not sitting well with us for Minister of Finance

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Speaker 6: to stay in Parliament and act is if we have

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Speaker 6: never attempted to speak to government. And I think that

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Speaker 6: those attences should have come from the Minister of Health,

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Speaker 6: not the Minsile Finance because Minsial Finance should know that

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Speaker 6: we've been engaging with government and government has not been

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Speaker 6: engaging with us. So we've always said that, but we

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Speaker 6: are saying if government wants to talk, they must approach us.

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Speaker 6: We're willing to talk, but we're not going to just

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Speaker 6: withdraw our cases a case that we have with government

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Speaker 6: simply because they want to talk with us. We are

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Speaker 6: going to be engaging and listening to what government is

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Speaker 6: in felt. On top of that, we're part of the the, the, the, the,

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Speaker 6: the coalition we call the Universal Health Coalition Access. You know,

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Speaker 6: we've written a proposal there to government and they have

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Speaker 6: not responded to that proposal as an alternative to the NHI.

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Speaker 6: In fact, it was an invitation by the President to say,

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Speaker 6: if there are any person in South Africa alternatives, let

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Speaker 6: them present those to him. But he has never had

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Speaker 6: a nerve to come back to us to say we

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Speaker 6: have received your, your, your, your, your, your, your proposals.

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Speaker 6: So that pronouncement in Parliament I think it's dis engineers

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Speaker 6: from the side of government.

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Speaker 2: Is the Minister of Health, doctor Aaron Monsolety the problem.

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Speaker 6: No, I wouldn't say doctor monsuality is a problem. We

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Speaker 6: keep having, you know, engagements with him, including the issue

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Speaker 6: of the NHI. We would want to you know, if

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Speaker 6: they want to discuss with Summer, they must approach the

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Speaker 6: association because at the moment, because they didn't want to

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Speaker 6: talk to us, we had taken them to court. I

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Speaker 6: must clarify this, Stevens. Taking government to court was the

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Speaker 6: very very last option in our approaches. We have done

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Speaker 6: all what we could to avoid going to court. But

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Speaker 6: because there are issues that were not clarified to us,

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Speaker 6: government not wanting to clarify, so we decided to take

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Speaker 6: them to court because in the court of law they

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Speaker 6: will be expected to respond to each every consent that

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Speaker 6: you were raising in that affidelity.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting that you and the Board of

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Speaker 2: Healthcare Funders keep coming back to the same point. You

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Speaker 2: say that government is not given enough information about this. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So do you get a sense that it hasn't been

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Speaker 2: thought through properly? I mean, there'll be all sorts of

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Speaker 2: consequences simply because it hasn't been thought through. And I'm

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Speaker 2: fairly certain if we had a representative from government they

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Speaker 2: would say it had been.

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Speaker 6: There must be a proof of concept for any policy.

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Speaker 2: And Steven, those.

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Speaker 6: Those attempts, you know they failed. You know, we are

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Speaker 6: told now that you know all of them. When they tried,

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Speaker 6: you know, to you know, take approach certain districts and

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Speaker 6: you know, have nhi or an attempt to do that,

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Speaker 6: they've all all failed. That's a proof of concept, it's

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Speaker 6: not there. So on what it's not evidence based policy. Then, secondly,

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Speaker 6: coming to this issue of government consulting, government have been

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Speaker 6: going around meeting the group of you know, rented crowd,

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Speaker 6: you know where you find that it's political aligned people

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Speaker 6: in a in a particular hall. But if you look

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Speaker 6: at our our petition, we had about seventy five thousand

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Speaker 6: people you know who had said they agree with the

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Speaker 6: South African Medical Associations that there is something seriously wrong

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Speaker 6: with the with the NHI. You know, because if I

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Speaker 6: can quickly draw you to some of these issues Stevens.

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Speaker 6: The issue of demanding citizens to be registered you know,

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Speaker 6: with the fund before the ASCESSID is a serious problem

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Speaker 6: with us because even as we speak now, there are

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Speaker 6: people who don't have ideas, There are people who there

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Speaker 6: are children who don't have bead certificates. So do you

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Speaker 6: mean that when that child come to hospital and must

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Speaker 6: be tended back because they are not registered with the fund.

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Speaker 6: So it's a fundamental flaw and it's it's a it's

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Speaker 6: a it's a violation of human rights as we stand.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Vuisim's look up. Thanks so much. Share of the essay.

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Speaker 2: Medical Association your view on the NHIOH seven two seven

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Speaker 2: oh two one seven o two.

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Speaker 7: Stephen gone acts at at Stephens.

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Speaker 2: The International Monetary Fund saying it now believes our economy

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Speaker 2: actually grew by one point three percent last year and

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Speaker 2: early forecasts suggesting will grow by one point four percent

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Speaker 2: this year, slightly higher than earlier forecast. Kevin Lyns is

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Speaker 2: the standard chief economist, Kevin good evening, I mean one

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Speaker 2: percent here, a point one percent there, point one percent. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: at some point it made up, might add up to

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Speaker 2: real growth. Are you feeling a little bit more optimistic

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Speaker 2: along with the IMF.

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Speaker 8: Hi, Stephen, Look, I think yes, we are a bit

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Speaker 8: more optimistic. That optimism started to build a little bit

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Speaker 8: more fully in the second half of last year. We

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Speaker 8: certainly had a better se and half than the first half.

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Speaker 8: The first quarter last year was terrible. So economic activity

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Speaker 8: has picked up. And then importantly, I think we've had

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Speaker 8: a number of policy initiatives that have started to generate

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Speaker 8: a better direction, things like including starting to think about

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Speaker 8: including the private sectoring rail in the rail industry, further

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Speaker 8: development of renewable energy, getting the Philippines Company to be

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Speaker 8: involved in Peer two Harbor Durbin. So there are a

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Speaker 8: couple of those initiatives which are not yet substantive in nature,

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Speaker 8: but they are I think moving in the right direction.

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Speaker 8: You've got cuts in interest rates, you've got low inflation.

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Speaker 8: We had a credit rating upgrade, we were removed from

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Speaker 8: the grade list. There are a range of things in

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Speaker 8: six months that feel better. But as you say, it's

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Speaker 8: a marginal upgrade. One point four percent growth for this year.

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Speaker 8: Back in October, the IMF had US at one point

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Speaker 8: two percent for this year, so a small improvement, and

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Speaker 8: I guess it depends on your perspective, right, So if

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Speaker 8: you go back to twenty four, we were growing this

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Speaker 8: economy at half a percent. So if you groin at

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Speaker 8: half a percent and now you're growing at one point

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Speaker 8: four then it feels a lot better. But if you

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Speaker 8: think about what growth we need to make a difference

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Speaker 8: to the country GI, it's got to be well in

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Speaker 8: excess of two, it's actually got to be above three percent.

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Speaker 8: And emerging markets. I see the imash's forecasting emerging markets

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Speaker 8: growing at four point two percent, and that's the type

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Speaker 8: of growth rate we really have to be achieving. So

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Speaker 8: it looks and it feels slightly better, but it's still

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Speaker 8: not nearly enough, not even close to being enough in

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Speaker 8: terms of growth.

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Speaker 2: Sure, electricity was a major problem for the economy and

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Speaker 2: that problem has and I've put this in inverted commas,

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Speaker 2: just gone away. It's been replaced by another problem, which

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Speaker 2: is the price of the electricity. But the Reserve Bank

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Speaker 2: used to say load shedding was costing us two percentage

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Speaker 2: points in terms of GDP. Could we still be seeing

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Speaker 2: the fact that there is no load shedding so properly,

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Speaker 2: was the supply still coming through?

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Speaker 8: It hasn't worked like that, Stephen. We initially thought exactly

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Speaker 8: that that when we were able to dampen down load shedding,

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Speaker 8: we thought there would be an automatic revival in manufacturing,

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Speaker 8: mining activity. Industries that had been particularly hurt by load shedding.

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Speaker 8: Just hasn't happened. And I think part of that is

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Speaker 8: that with a lot of these things, there are other problems.

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Speaker 8: And the other problems the rail capacity, port capacity, water supply.

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Speaker 8: So you end up realizing that some multitude of factors

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Speaker 8: hurting industries, not just electricity. Yes, obviously, at some point

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Speaker 8: you would have argued the electricity was the most most

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Speaker 8: critical factor in terms of pegging back the economy. But

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Speaker 8: when you remove that, there are other constraints. So no,

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Speaker 8: we haven't had a massive revival in any parts of

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Speaker 8: the economy. Because electricity feels a bit better. If I

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Speaker 8: look at s A, they not doing all that well

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Speaker 8: in terms of total output. What's helped us a lot

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Speaker 8: is the ongoing development of renewable energy. That's been a

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Speaker 8: big help to keep the lights on.

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Speaker 2: In effect, Trump, I don't even know where to begin. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: the positive is that it's very It makes the gold

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Speaker 2: price very strong. That brings in more money. Platinum too,

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Speaker 2: to any extent. But the sort of shock after shock

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Speaker 2: after shock around trade, is that a big risk for

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Speaker 2: us this year?

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Speaker 8: It is we have been hurt, and not as much

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Speaker 8: as what was initially in visage. So if you look,

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Speaker 8: we've got the November numbers up to November last year,

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Speaker 8: and exports to the US in the first eleven months

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Speaker 8: of last year down about six and a half percent

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Speaker 8: in value terms. So it depends on your view. I

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Speaker 8: think it's it's manageable a decline of six and a

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Speaker 8: half percent, given that you've got a thirty percent import

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Speaker 8: tariff imposed on South Africa. It's not necessarily a shocking outcome.

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Speaker 8: We can cope with it, but obviously you would have

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Speaker 8: liked the number to be stronger. What's happening though, is

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Speaker 8: all of this disruption just causes all these tariffs just

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Speaker 8: cause a massive spike in uncertainty. I was looking at

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Speaker 8: an index called the Global Global Policy Uncertainty Index. It

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Speaker 8: has skyrocketed with all of the more recent developments. And

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Speaker 8: so once you've got that level of uncertainty, then people

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Speaker 8: start to hold back, hold back on investment, trade, all

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Speaker 8: of those types of things. And given that South Africa's

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Speaker 8: if you break down So Africa's economy, more than fifty

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Speaker 8: percent of our economies either imported or exported. We are

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Speaker 8: very reliant on the rest of the world, and so

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Speaker 8: things that disrupt global supply definitely hurt South Africa. So

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Speaker 8: it remains a headwind. I think we can achieve the

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Speaker 8: one point four percent growth by what I would call

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Speaker 8: self help, in other words, just turning inward and looking

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Speaker 8: at what we can develop domestically. Maybe another one or

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Speaker 8: two cuts in interest rates, inflation still low, some steady

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Speaker 8: pick up being infrastructure. So there are things we can

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Speaker 8: do that can help ourselves. But definitely the global backdrop

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Speaker 8: and all the noise created by President Trump is very

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Speaker 8: unhelpful for our progress.

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Speaker 2: Kevin Linz, thank you so much, Chief Economist at Standard,

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Speaker 2: the money Show, QUAM locals with equity research, sales and

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Speaker 2: investment banking. It AB's a quite a good evening. Just

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Speaker 2: picking up on the Trump conversation, the US markets down sharply.

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Speaker 2: Gold Is that a very strong day?

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Speaker 9: Exactly, Stupen. I mean, yesterday the guys were out in

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Speaker 9: the US because they had a public holiday. But I

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Speaker 9: think what we're seeing now is investors coming back and

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Speaker 9: sort of digesting the news on Greenland and potentially some

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Speaker 9: new tariffs on the European nations.

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Speaker 10: Right.

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Speaker 9: All of last year, we spent the year trying to

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Speaker 9: decipher what trade looks like with the US and China,

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Speaker 9: and this year it looks like we're going to have

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Speaker 9: to make the same consideration for Europe. And why that's

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Speaker 9: important specifically for the SMP. There's a lot of the companies,

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Speaker 9: a lot of the sort big liquid industrial companies and

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Speaker 9: consumer companies also get a significant part of their revenues

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Speaker 9: from Europe. So what you're seeing is both people looking at,

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Speaker 9: you know, the risk premium pricing in a potentially risky environment,

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Speaker 9: but also a rotation from maybe out of the big

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Speaker 9: tech stocks that you own into and some of these

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Speaker 9: big consumer and industrial companies into the sort of mid

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Speaker 9: and small cap space that are somewhat insulated from trade

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Speaker 9: as well. So unsurprising to see that the markets down,

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Speaker 9: especially the SMP, and equally that investors are piling back

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Speaker 9: into safe hazen's rights gold above forty seven hundred, but

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Speaker 9: maybe you know, it's running a little bit ahead of

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Speaker 9: what we thought. We thought you'd potentially see five thousand

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Speaker 9: dollars in uns maybe in the second half of this

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Speaker 9: year and fifty five hundred into twenty twenty seven. But

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Speaker 9: it just speaks to the fact that whenever there's a

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Speaker 9: lot of uncertainty or spikes and uncertainty, you will see

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Speaker 9: people looking to go into the safe havens like gold,

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Speaker 9: and to an extent and silver as well. Great for

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Speaker 9: our stock market, right, So what we're seeing today is

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Speaker 9: you know, between one percent and in the case of

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Speaker 9: Anglo Gold, that's almost seven percent today.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you kind of wonder where gold could end

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Speaker 2: at this rate. I mean, yeah, as you said, at

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Speaker 2: the end of last year, we thought five thousand by

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Speaker 2: midway through the year, maybe the end of the year.

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Speaker 2: Now it's probably by the end of January exactly.

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Speaker 9: And I think the more uncertainty that gets placed in

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Speaker 9: the market and also some question marks on you know,

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Speaker 9: not just geo politics, but also interest rate policy that

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Speaker 9: could push gold up more than what most endlists have

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Speaker 9: in their numbers currently.

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Speaker 2: Krene Maloca, thanks so much Equity research, sales and investment

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Speaker 2: banking at the at abscess CIB just after six thirty on.

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Speaker 3: Up Stephen on seventy two seven oh two one.

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Speaker 2: Seven nine minutes to seven the time I was asking

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Speaker 2: you if you've ever followed a boss somewhere. You know,

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Speaker 2: you get that phone call and you kind of know

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Speaker 2: what it means and the way you felt about it.

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Speaker 2: Look forward to hearing your experiences on seven two, seven

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Speaker 2: oh two one seven oh two. Are several reports today

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Speaker 2: that Joeberg City Power again is looking at buying the

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Speaker 2: Kelvin power Station. The thing about the Kelvin Power Station is,

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Speaker 2: as far as I know, it's the only coal fired

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Speaker 2: power station that is privately owned in the country, and

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Speaker 2: City Power say that would allow them to produce power

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Speaker 2: at a cheaper rate for their customers in joe Burg. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that may be fine, but look at what's happening to

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Speaker 2: esk them. Their revenues are down, the volume of electricity

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Speaker 2: that they're selling is down. And it's down not because

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Speaker 2: they can't produce enough electricity. They absolutely can. In fact,

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Speaker 2: they kind of don't know what to do with all

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Speaker 2: the stuff they're producing at the moment. It's because so

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Speaker 2: many people, as Kevin Lyn's reminded us, they're producing their

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Speaker 2: own electricity. It is one of those fundamental shifts who

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Speaker 2: are seeing right in front of our eyes, and the

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Speaker 2: economic case for it is so strong that it seems

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Speaker 2: to me to be unstoppable. The sheer amounts of solar

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Speaker 2: panels that are coming out of China on literally an

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Speaker 2: hourly basis is staggering. So city Power wants to go

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Speaker 2: and buy a coal fired power station in a city

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Speaker 2: in which the amount of electricity, the volume that they're

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Speaker 2: going to be able to sell, is likely to decline

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Speaker 2: quite sharply over the next day five years. I'll have

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Speaker 2: some questions over the wisdom of that. Eighteen minutes now

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Speaker 2: to seven.

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Speaker 1: With email him on Stephen at seven O two dot

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Speaker 1: co Dotzi.

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Speaker 2: Fourteen minutes two seven. Well more evidence of the disruption

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Speaker 2: calls to our car industry by the introduction of cheaper

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Speaker 2: Chinese models. Today reports that the road motor that the

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Speaker 2: Motor Industry Staff Association declaring a dispute with a motor company, Motors.

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Speaker 2: They said they were going to cut jobs with cut salaries,

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Speaker 2: according to the Staff Association, in some cases by around

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Speaker 2: thirty percent. Motors facing strong competition because of cheaper Chinese

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Speaker 2: brands admitted a business Life reminded us that it should

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Speaker 2: have introduced those brands earlier. We'll hear from Motors in

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Speaker 2: just a moment. First, Sonya Carton is the spokesperson for

437
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 2: the Motor Industry Staff Association representing workers at MOTUS. Sonya,

438
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: good evening. What is motus as an employer? Told your members, good.

439
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 11: Evening, Stephen, and thank you for hosting us. Motors informed

440
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 11: our members five hundred and thirty two of them that

441
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 11: they will be implementing job a salary cut so as

442
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 11: for off the end of January up into thirty percent.

443
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 11: So there's full three groups, some ore twenty percent, some

444
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 11: twenty percent and some thirty percent. Then they will also

445
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 11: be taking away company vehicles. All company vehicles needs to

446
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 11: be written by the service of January. They will no

447
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 11: longer have been entitled to fuel, core travel or cel

448
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 11: phone allowances and they are going to take away the

449
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 11: incentives and or commissioned.

450
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: Was there any consultation or warning that this was coming.

451
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 11: Yeah, the consultation process started in July last year when

452
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 11: Motors first informed our members that they wanted to take

453
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 11: away some of the conditions of employments, which are these benefits.

454
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 11: We then objected. On the sixth of Dober, Motors issued

455
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 11: us a formal section one at nine process retingement process. Subsequently,

456
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 11: it was almost nine hundred people that were affected initially,

457
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 11: but of which two hundred and fifty four would have

458
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 11: been retrainched. We managed to get that figured around to

459
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 11: eighty six. But then the remaining affected employees this five

460
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 11: hundred and fifty two are now facing this benefit. That

461
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 11: so that we consulted throughout the fest of seven season.

462
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 11: We reached the day talk and we waited for motors

463
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 11: to make a decision whether or not they will be

464
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 11: implementing and also I informed our members in writing. After

465
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 11: the decision, we then approach them with later off demand.

466
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: Do you believe there are other ways motors could be

467
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 2: saving money rather than cutting the salaries of their members

468
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: and cutting benefits and the way they are.

469
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 11: Yes, certainly this was not This is not even an

470
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 11: option to consider. The decision on the table was either

471
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 11: you take it or we unilaterally. You're going to implement that,

472
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 11: and that's why MISA will be approaching the High Court

473
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 11: for an introd if motors continue and don't refrain. Now

474
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 11: that we've declared that the spuke spirit, so the spirit

475
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 11: we've already I have a data. The spirit will be

476
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 11: heard in February at the Motor Industry Boggling Council, the

477
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 11: Speed Tread Delusion Committee. But we believe that motives could

478
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 11: have tried alternatives, for instance, like not implementing benefits going

479
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 11: forward in other words, for new appointments and then but

480
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 11: you can't take away what I've already got in my

481
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 11: in my conditions of appointment.

482
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: So sonya, I hear you, and I've let you speak

483
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: for some time. But if I were the people running motors,

484
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 2: I would think to myself, my real aim here is

485
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: to save as many jobs as I can, and to

486
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 2: do that, everyone's going to feel a bit of pain.

487
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: But if I do that, I'll be able to cut

488
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: down the number of people facing retrenchment from was a

489
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: three hundred to just eighty six or so. Aren't they

490
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 2: doing actually, what is the right thing. They're cutting your

491
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: salaries very painful, far better than cutting more jobs.

492
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 11: Steve, and I understand where you're coming from, but we're

493
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 11: talking about Motors Retail and this is a was in

494
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 11: the bigger motors group. This is not a bankrupt company. Firstly, Secondly,

495
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 11: we had record stylees of tober November December throughout the

496
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 11: retail motor industry, so we not convinced that this drastic measure,

497
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 11: that that there is such a rapid impact on the

498
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 11: lass of individuals is really necessary.

499
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: Sonya Carton, thanks very much. Indeed, spokesperson for the Motor

500
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: Industry Staff Association. That's their side. Let's hear now from Motors.

501
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: The CEO of SA Retail, which is a division of

502
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 2: Motors is Gridian Jansen van Rensburg Aridian. Good evening. If

503
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: you had record sales in the last few months of

504
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: last year, why are you taking this drastic action and

505
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: getting rid of some work. Isn't cutting the salaries of others?

506
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 12: So good evening, Stephen, and good evening all the listeners,

507
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 12: and thank you for the opportunity to maybe just give

508
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 12: some context to the russianale of why are we in it?

509
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 12: So before I go getting to the real detail of it.

510
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 12: I would just like to provide some context behind the

511
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 12: decisions that we're taking and planning to implement. So, the

512
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 12: African automotive retail environment has experienced a significant structural disruption

513
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 12: in the recent years. Now as a business operating at scale,

514
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 12: so African Retail, which is a division of the Broader

515
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 12: Motors Group, as you're well known, had to respond responsibly

516
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 12: to ensure the long term sustainability and competitiveness of our operations.

517
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 12: So the shift towards multi franchise and combined dealerships brought

518
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 12: efficiencies in not only market reach, but it also resulted

519
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 12: in duplication of back office and support functions that was

520
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 12: no longer sustainable in an margin pressurized environment. At the

521
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 12: same time, the market has become more competitive. These new entrants,

522
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 12: particularly the Chinese brands that's providing a broad range of

523
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 12: attractive vehicles, which has intensified the pricing pressure pressures and

524
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 12: has reshaped our consumer behavior. So also seeking customers, seeing

525
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 12: that cust stimers has got to straight down into lower

526
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 12: priced entry level vehicles. So while the volumes have increased,

527
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 12: the average value of the vehicles are sold as the

528
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 12: climbed the selling price has not really increased substantially below inflation,

529
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 12: and it's placing continued pressure on the margins that dealerships

530
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 12: can make. So in response, we were required to rationalize

531
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 12: our business by implementing back office synergies to realign our structures.

532
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 12: And I think what is important to notice that we

533
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 12: are aligning the incentives and the company core benefits of

534
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 12: our admin and support staff in our retail division.

535
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 2: So we didn't take this sorry to interrupt you, Citty,

536
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you were going to say that you

537
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: didn't take this lightly, and I appreciate that. But you

538
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: say you're going to rationalize back office functions, okay, but

539
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: you're cutting people's salaries by thirty percent. That sounds like

540
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: something bigger than a rationalization to me.

541
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 12: So, Stephen, I think it's important to note that we've

542
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 12: identified two hundred and fifty nine and I think the

543
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 12: narrative it is unfortunately we couldn't place or we could

544
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 12: place seventy four percent of the individuals within the Morti

545
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 12: bro Broader Motors group and make alternative arrangements for those employees,

546
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 12: which unfortunately led us to retrain sixty seven people, of

547
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 12: which we are really still trying working very hard to

548
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 12: see if we can't find opportunities for them within the

549
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 12: bigger Motors group. And like Sonya mentioned in priorly, so

550
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 12: there was a three months process that was facilitated by

551
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 12: the CCMA where the unions and the staff representatives were involved,

552
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 12: and the CCMA guidelines gave us or led us to

553
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 12: believe that a reduction of more than thirty percent would

554
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 12: be considered as unfair and unreasonable. So our senior staff

555
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 12: members took a salary cut of up to thirty percent

556
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 12: in our retail division. And now we are really seeking

557
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 12: to realign the incentive structures and the company core benefits

558
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 12: of our admin and support staff to industry benchmarks that

559
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 12: we've identified. And guess it's purely an attempt to avoid

560
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 12: further job losses and retrenchments.

561
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so a couple of things. Firstly, you say there

562
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: was duplication of work and that would have been a

563
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: consequence of management decisions, and Business Life pointed this out

564
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: to your annual report last year, Motors admitted they should

565
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 2: have introduced Chinese models to your product mix earlier. What

566
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: it looks like, Heidian, is that your work is paying

567
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: the price for mistakes made by management.

568
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 12: Steven, it's very sad that we have to adjust staff members' salaries,

569
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 12: and we're very conscious of the fact we do represent

570
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 12: quite a wide variety of Chinese products on our floor,

571
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 12: but we continually reevaluate our business operations to make sure

572
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 12: that they're agile and to make sure that our business

573
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 12: online of industry standards and that our remuneration has got

574
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 12: to be in line with industry standards.

575
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: Okay, but you haven't answered the question. This is because

576
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 2: management made mistakes that this is happening, Steven.

577
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 12: I think it's adjusting to an ever changing landscape within

578
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 12: the South African motoring environment, and like every environment, you've

579
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 12: got to be agile and you've got to adjust. And

580
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 12: that is the decision that we have taken as management

581
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 12: is to implement these measures. And we've got to say

582
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 12: as a real last resort that we've done this. We've

583
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 12: negotiated our suppliers in certain aspects. We've also consolidated functions

584
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 12: from a group perspective that we can do as much

585
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 12: as we can, and this is really a last resort

586
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 12: that we are looking at our results. Like I've said,

587
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 12: our senior management within the division has also been impacted

588
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 12: in support of this process.

589
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 2: Okay, the CEO of Motors is your boss or your

590
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: boss's bosses boss. Okay, at Janswered van Rensburg, he took

591
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: home thirty five million Rand last year. I mean, you're

592
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: cutting salaries on the one side, and the CEO is

593
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: getting thirty five million round idiot, Stephen.

594
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 12: Also, we got a place it in context. He's the

595
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 12: CEO of the Motors Group, which is a listed company,

596
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 12: and our results are on the public information. This is

597
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 12: purely in our motor retail division. And the impact that

598
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 12: we're talking about here is five hundred and seventy staff

599
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 12: or five hundred admin and support staff that's going to

600
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 12: be implemented by less than twenty percent. So two hundred

601
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 12: and seventy eight of those people are going to be

602
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 12: impacted less than ten percent. And while it is regrettable

603
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 12: that we have to get this, unfortunately we have to

604
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 12: adjust our commission structures and our lines to order that

605
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 12: we've got a sustainable business going forward.

606
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 2: Okay, but here's let me put the case as sharply

607
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: as I can against you to give you a chance

608
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: to respond. Your CEO gets thirty five million rand. Mistakes

609
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 2: have been made by management, not by your workers because

610
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: you didn't introduce Chinese models more quickly. But it's not

611
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 2: I don't know about you. I don't want to personalize it,

612
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 2: but it's not your CEO. It's not the top management

613
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: that seem to be paying the price. It's the workers

614
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: that are paying the price.

615
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 12: Steve, and I think it's it's everybody in our organization

616
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 12: of paying the price. And we're all aligned with taking

617
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 12: some pain in this process, and we've got to get

618
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 12: this division to perform for all our stakeholders involved. That

619
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 12: means the OEMs that we that the brands that we sell,

620
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 12: and also to protect the jobs of the other three

621
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 12: and a half thousand people that we employ in this division.

622
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 12: And I think that is that is the stance of

623
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 12: we're doing this to protect further job losses and to

624
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 12: not affect more people in this process.

625
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: Grady and Jansen and Ramsberg, thank you very much. Indeed,

626
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 2: CEO of SA Retail, the division of Motors, you heard

627
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 2: earlier from Sonnia Carton, the spokesperson of the most Industry

628
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: Staff Association. Your view, yeah, tricky one. I accept that

629
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 2: there are changes coming in the automotive industry. I accept

630
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 2: that motus is being affected like others. They've already admitted

631
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: to making mistakes. On the other hand, the salary of

632
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: the CEO seven two, seven two one, seven oh two.

633
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen's credit on seven

634
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: oh two. Let's walk little.

635
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

636
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 2: by ABS of Corporate and Investment Banking, a Pan African

637
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: bank that's invested in your story because your story matters.

638
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: Nine minutes after seven the time we will talk a

639
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: little bit about SARS looking at chasing influences, social media influencers,

640
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: I mean who basically are advertising things they know to

641
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 2: be fake. That line between what is fake an obvious

642
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 2: copy of something in a legal copy and what is

643
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: just sort of similar to inspired by, I think is

644
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: what the movie industry would call it. Where does that

645
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 2: line lie? I mean, I'm trying to even work it

646
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 2: out in my head. We'll speak to Rontendo and Duingui,

647
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: the founding director of Tribe Africa Advisory. He'll update us

648
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: on some of the big comment very big developments we're

649
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: seeing in Africa. And then personal finance. How to calculate

650
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: your financial freedom number. And we've looked at this before

651
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: but Warren Ingram has some updates in different ways to

652
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: think about it, fresh insights for our whole new year

653
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 2: to look at. So I'm looking forward to that actually

654
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 2: because it does show you how personal finance, which you

655
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: think of as a long term thing, does change, and

656
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 2: you do need to kind of update your thinking about

657
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 2: the questions you thought maybe had been settled some time ago.

658
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: Could to hear from you on double one doaa three

659
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 2: oh seven two two one four four, six, five six seven,

660
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: and of course voice notes on seven two seven oh

661
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 2: two one seven oh two, what up Stephen on.

662
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 3: Seven two seven oh two one.

663
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: Seven o two. We heard that conversation a few moments

664
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 2: ago with the representative of workers at Motors and then

665
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: from SA Retailer division of Motors as well some responses.

666
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: That's nice, hi Steven.

667
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 13: What I hear about this motor industry sector is the

668
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 13: fact that for a long time we've been paying hefty

669
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 13: salaries for German and European car producers. Because he doesn't

670
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 13: explain how European cars are so expensive compared to the

671
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 13: Chinese cars. I mean, there's also Indian cars currently some

672
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 13: of the cheapest Diota cars, and Suzuki has actually made

673
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 13: in India.

674
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 14: So basically we've been paying hefty salaries with a claim

675
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 14: that it's superior. But now we realize you can have

676
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 14: superior without the cost. Yeah, Jimmy midran T Center.

677
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 15: Hi, Stephen evening Man, thanks for interview with the guy

678
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 15: from Moder's Group.

679
00:39:59,160 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 3: Yeah.

680
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 15: Hi, I like the way you were asking the questions.

681
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 15: Then even some questions were not answered answered.

682
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 2: Properly by him.

683
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 15: Question of stuff is only impacted and then he says

684
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 15: over and he's impacted. But then you get a ceo

685
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 15: was getting so much money while the company is not

686
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 15: paying making what you call he's not performing very well.

687
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 15: And then you have Stephen, you know this interview that

688
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 15: you have with reminding me of my employer. The company

689
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 15: didn't do so well last year where I work. There

690
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 15: were no bonuses or incentives or whatever you call it

691
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 15: in December or they were reduced I think by more

692
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 15: than seventy percent if I'm not mistaken, over sixty percent

693
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 15: compared to last year. And then they say the company

694
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 15: didn't make money, right Steven, But then the CEO is

695
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 15: getting twenty four million payout? Wild stuff?

696
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 14: Is you go Christmas?

697
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 15: You're getting even lesbian depending on your cause you're getting

698
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 15: you can't even do anything for your kids.

699
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's always the issue, is

700
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 2: that you look at the boss and you think, what

701
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 2: are they doing, how are they living? And sometimes the

702
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 2: boss is working very hard and it's absolutely worth the money.

703
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: Sometimes they aren't. I isn't that the issue? Seelessed on

704
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: the WhatsApp line saying Stephen, the top people are greedy?

705
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 2: Thirty five millionaire is laughable. Why do the wealthiest work

706
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 2: people never pay workers enough?

707
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 9: Yeah?

708
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: Interesting question. Thirteen minutes after seven.

709
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: The Money Show with Stephen on seven O two seven

710
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: O twos.

711
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,280
Speaker 2: I'm reporting today that SARS may start looking at social

712
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 2: media influences who promote fashion items that are fakes, so

713
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: they can be known as luxury duplicates or luxury dupes

714
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: in the trade, people who are promoting stuff they know

715
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: is not legit. Let me put it like this. Jared

716
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 2: West is a partner at Spur and Fisher. Jared Good evening.

717
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 2: I mean, social media is the wild West of marketing.

718
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 2: How much authority does SARS have people who are advertising

719
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: fake goods on social media?

720
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 16: Hank Steven, Yeah, thanks for having me. SARS has wide

721
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 16: ranging powers and I think, you know, as SARS is

722
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 16: a revenue generating authority, and when influencers, as any other person,

723
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 16: professional or otherwise, to generate the income, SARS has a

724
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 16: right to a portion of that income as a form

725
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 16: of income tax. So yeah, they've got wide ranging powers,

726
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 16: and they are certainly going to start looking at influences

727
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 16: in general, but also specifically those that are advertising either

728
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 16: counterfeit or dupes. And I think it's important that we

729
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 16: differentiate that they dupe. All dupes are not counterfeits, but

730
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 16: all counterfeits are mean the same tubes. And yeah, SARS

731
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 16: is going to knock down on the guys advertising.

732
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I would think that what SARS would be

733
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: doing is a couple of things. I mean, one is

734
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 2: they you know, as we as we can see in

735
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: other industries, they do police things and they do that

736
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: through revenue. They make sure that if you are getting

737
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 2: money from something, they take it from you. And the

738
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 2: thing about being a social media or influencer is you

739
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: have to do if it's in public. So it's pretty obvious.

740
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 16: Hundred percent, and SARA is going to look at certain

741
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 16: red flags. You know, whether you are a high earning

742
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 16: CEO of a company, they will do lifestyle audits. There

743
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 16: might be discrepancies in the way that your lifestyle is portrayed,

744
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 16: especially when it's online and so visible to everybody, compared

745
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 16: to the income that you are declaring to them. And

746
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 16: I think a lot of influencers may be of the

747
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 16: opinion that the income they generate as a result of

748
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 16: these kind of paid for advertisements or sponsored advertisement doesn't

749
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 16: have to be declared and it's not a normal form

750
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 16: of income, and therefore they're not liable to pay an attack,

751
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 16: which is wrong. They are and in certain instances you

752
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 16: might even have to register for that, and you have

753
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 16: to become a registered bad vendor, which also has its

754
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 16: own implication. So silaly is definitely going to start looking

755
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 16: at specific red flags, especially where influences don't necessarily get

756
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 16: paid by cash, but rather through trips or hospitality, events

757
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 16: or products. Those must also be declared as a form

758
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 16: of income.

759
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: So if we just use a handbag as an example,

760
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: what's the difference between a sort of counterfeit and a

761
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 2: group that's not a counterfeit? I mean some I mean,

762
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 2: let me be clear, I wouldn't be able to tell

763
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: you a handbag from I don't know, a car, I suppose,

764
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: but some handbags I know look luxurious and I can

765
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: see that's that's something special. But how do you know,

766
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: you know, what's the difference between something that's I suppose

767
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 2: inspired by and an obvious copy.

768
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 16: Yeah, so, I mean it's really the difference between whether

769
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 16: a trademark and copyrighted work, artistic work has been duplicated exactly,

770
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 16: and whether there's an infringement of that trademark. So maybe

771
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 16: a good example is something like a Boucci handbag or

772
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 16: Leubiton handbag. If it says leve it on, but it

773
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 16: was not manufactured by Leubaton, that is a counterfeit bag.

774
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 16: Then you have a bag that looks you know, it

775
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 16: looks like areas. It might have a shape or form

776
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 16: or some sort of design that hasn't been registered as

777
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 16: a trademark, but it kind of dupes you into believing

778
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 16: it may be or it could be something similar. So

779
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 16: it's a very fine line, possibly better explained by example

780
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 16: of perfumes, where perfume doesn't have the brand name, but

781
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 16: it says it's inspired by you know, X or Y.

782
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 16: So in as much as there's no trademark infringement, if

783
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 16: there's no trademark ettingement, it can never be a counter set. Again,

784
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 16: very fine line, and some brands crossed line too much

785
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 16: to put it into the sphere of being a proper

786
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 16: counterseet as both to just being a dupe. So the

787
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 16: term dupe and what constitutes a dupe is still very

788
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 16: much under consideration by our authorities and by our courts.

789
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 16: And although pure counter setting is a criminal defense and

790
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 16: because of the good Jack deals with that specifically. So yeah,

791
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 16: very fine line, but different legislation to deal with each

792
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 16: of those.

793
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I already imagine that plenty of people are

794
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 2: able to you know, drive trucks through that sort of

795
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: particular sort of definition. And also, I mean, to try

796
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 2: and police social media must actually be really quite difficult

797
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: because there is just so much stuff going on.

798
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 16: Yeah, social media has been one of the great challenges,

799
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 16: I mean not only from the advertisements by paid sponsors

800
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 16: of the counter sets, but also just an anymity of

801
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 16: social media. You know, you can have a social media account,

802
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 16: it might not have your correct name. You can create

803
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 16: a safe Gmail account, and you can start trading in

804
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 16: counterfeit goods on social media platforms, whether it be Facebook, Marketplace,

805
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 16: or Instagram, and it's very difficult to actually check the

806
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 16: people behind the accounts and get to the.

807
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 12: Stores.

808
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 16: It's the retail outlets or the residential premises from where

809
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 16: they trade. So for you know, social media and role,

810
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 16: it really has made it very difficult to do enforcement

811
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 16: in that online here. But if it's something that is

812
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 16: being cracked down on, especially about the platforms, no platform

813
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 16: wants to be associated with what ultimately a criminal activity.

814
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 16: So there's strong woves and attil intelligence has assisted to

815
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 16: kind of crack down on some of the bad actors

816
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 16: in the space, but it is challenging.

817
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Indeed, Jared West as a partner

818
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 2: at Spur and Fisher, so interesting to see how that

819
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: is sort of moving. So much to look at there.

820
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: Nineteen minutes after seven.

821
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 9: Money Show Africa Business Focus and.

822
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 2: Of course doctor Rotendo and Dingui is the founding director

823
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: at Tribe Africa at Ryansury and author of the book

824
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 2: Rumble in the Jungle Reloaded. How's it, Rotendo, Let's start

825
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: in Namibia because you know it's nice and close to us,

826
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,720
Speaker 2: but they're going to supply this big Saudi industrial venture

827
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 2: and it's I don't even know what you call it,

828
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 2: but it's basically graphite and it's going to go into

829
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 2: a new battery and node material plant.

830
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 7: Very true, Steven, and a good evening to you and

831
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 7: a good evening to your listeners. So GRAI fight you

832
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 7: must show as a as a material is used for

833
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 7: industrial high temperature and energy implications. So it all boils

834
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 7: down to energy, which is obviously in brain demand as

835
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 7: the world goes AI. So the Canadian company Northern Graphite

836
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 7: has identified and it was it was actually a derelic

837
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 7: mind that was under maintenance in I think it's called

838
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 7: the Oka Jiandi in Namibia. So it's Canada on the

839
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 7: extreme side of the world identifying a strategic mind that

840
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 7: was defunct in in in Namibia, and they're supplying the

841
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 7: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. We've got a I think it's

842
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 7: a two hundred million US dollar joint venture investment. So

843
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 7: it's a waymen for everybody, and I think at the

844
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 7: end of the day, Steven, they're probably targeting to produce

845
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 7: about twenty five thousand towns tons per year of granite

846
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 7: and the off take is probably about fifty thousand tpi

847
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 7: is based on the units that they used to manage it.

848
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 3: So it's an interesting story.

849
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 7: But I think it just shows from a globalization perspective,

850
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 7: and it's one of the key things that always wear

851
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 7: on and stealing that there's a lot of opportunity out

852
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 7: there for African countries to leverage off the commodities that

853
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 7: they have but tap into global value and it becomes

854
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 7: a win. We're not just for the country but also

855
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 7: for other entities. So an interesting story will sell it

856
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 7: plays out. I think in twenty end of twenty twenty

857
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 7: six is when the mine will go will go live.

858
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is very interesting to see how it all

859
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 2: plays out. In West Africa, online payments were suspended because

860
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 2: there's an argument around Visa and MasterCard and can you imagine.

861
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, So, you know it's the more we go digital

862
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 7: from a whether it's a country or from a global perspective,

863
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 7: you realize that the poress areas and the risk that

864
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 7: comes with it.

865
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 3: So the ym or the West African Monetary.

866
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 7: Union some years ago headed agreement with all the transaction

867
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 7: orders like Visa and MasterCard, and the focus was really

868
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 7: that you know, when transactions go through in West Africa,

869
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 7: it has to be settled at the end of the

870
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 7: day in the in the local currency, which was the

871
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 7: cafe frunk from from A from A from a transaction

872
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 7: perspective in twenty fifteen when this when the regulators implemented

873
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 7: this theory, the main transactions are really retail and banking,

874
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 7: and that was quite straightforward. Nobody had forecasted the depth

875
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 7: and growth excabated by by by COVID in terms of

876
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 7: the retail of of the e commerce sector. And that's

877
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 7: why the really this has come out is that as

878
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 7: e commerces has blown blown significantly in West Africa, they're

879
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 7: realizing the new pholes f ATF, which is the the

880
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 7: the the Financial Action Task Force. They're the ones who

881
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 7: make you gray listed or not who went through this

882
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 7: is South Africa, if ighlated.

883
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 3: This is a great risk. So WYAM has not really

884
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:57,479
Speaker 3: been sticky for no reason.

885
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 7: They're saying, guys, there's a big risk in terms of

886
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 7: the poracity that has come about because of e commerce.

887
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 7: We're not seeing total visibility. There's risk of this of

888
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 7: money laundering and and and so really the concern is genuine.

889
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 7: But at the same time Master current Visa saying, look,

890
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 7: this is also hitting us quite significantly. So there's a

891
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 7: big discussion between the banks, the central banks, the regulators,

892
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 7: and corporate players in the e commace space. So hopefully

893
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 7: they'll find a resolution. But at the end of the day,

894
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 7: nobody wants to be great listed because of the consequences

895
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 7: of so also say how this plays out, but it

896
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 7: just talks about it. As the world becomes more digital,

897
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 7: there's also bigger risks that I play as well.

898
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: And then an entrepreneurs name is Mama Du tare using

899
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 2: block train to disrupt gold investments and yeah, what a

900
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 2: time for gold.

901
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

902
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 7: And also another story that I might quite I'm quite

903
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 7: excited about Stephen because Mama du forty percent of the

904
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 7: world's gold is is in Africa, and for the past

905
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 7: few months we've seen the growth of the gold value.

906
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 7: What he's done is that he's built using blockchain and

907
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 7: other crypto and crypto currencies. Uh. In line with that,

908
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 7: Stephen is developed a model whereby tokens can be directly

909
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 7: linked to a fractional value of gold. I think it's

910
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 7: a milligram of gold. The actual gold investment that has

911
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 7: been put aside in terms of actual gold comes to

912
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 7: but a billionous dollars. I think it's value of city

913
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 7: in Switzerland. But in Layman's terms, he's made it accessible

914
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 7: and affordable for the ordinary men in the ground to

915
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 7: own value through the blockchain model. From a gold perspective,

916
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 7: and for countries that struggle with foreign currency and inflation,

917
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 7: high inflation like in West Africa, Nigeria, You've got countries

918
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 7: like Dana. We know a number of these countries where

919
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 7: the foreign currencies is a big issue. This is a

920
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 7: good way to invest in a stable environment. Obviously for

921
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 7: Mamadus and in the company that he started was called Ubuntu,

922
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 7: which which which obviously aligns with with with the vision

923
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 7: of their of the business, but they have a light

924
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 7: to key partners like the Global Settlement Network, which is

925
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 7: a try to tested model.

926
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 3: It's transparent. They've been around for a period of time.

927
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 7: As of today, Stephen, they've done one hundred million years

928
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 7: dollar transactions. They were thirty thousand customers and ten thousand

929
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 7: downloads and growing.

930
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 3: So I think for inclusivity when it comes to gold.

931
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 7: And accessibility and investment, it's a great story and I'm

932
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 7: quite excited to see how those pans are going to

933
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 7: the future as well.

934
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: And then Sunday night, I think we can agree with rotenda.

935
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 2: Not a great advert for football. Probably less of a

936
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 2: mess than what I'm afraid the World Cup in the

937
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 2: US is going to be. But that's another story. And yeah,

938
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 2: from a business point of view, it actually did very well.

939
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 7: It did very well, Stephen, And yeah, let's take the

940
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 7: letist take the politics of the football aside. And look,

941
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 7: I was supporting for one team. I won't mention the name,

942
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 7: but it did win. But getting back to the business

943
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 7: of afcun their revenue groups two hundred million US dollars.

944
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,959
Speaker 7: It's the most successful outcome from a commercial perspective since

945
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 7: they started. There was a ninety percent growth in terms

946
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 7: of revenue. One of the key reasons for their growth

947
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 7: is that from twenty twenty one, Steven, the sponsors moved

948
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 7: from nine sponsors to twenty three sponsors and for the

949
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 7: first time ever they've got sponsors from the USA, China, Germany, Morocco,

950
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 7: UK and Turkey. And another key driver was also leveraged

951
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 7: you a social media and global audiences. I think the

952
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 7: group to about a million visitors who are actually focused

953
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 7: all over the world were logged in for the final game.

954
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 7: But I think the key thing, yes, Stephen, it just

955
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 7: shows again that if you've got a right business model,

956
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 7: and that's what Patrice has been able to achieve. Obviously,

957
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 7: it's key to maintain the credibility and how he deals

958
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 7: with this whole issue that happened within Senegal and Morocco

959
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 7: is absolutely critical. I think the upside for Morocco is

960
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 7: that they've had an increase in terms of tourism, the

961
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 7: diversity infrastructure they are going to be used for the

962
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 7: World TAP as well, so it's a plus on all sides.

963
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 7: But from a commercial perspective, these guys hit the ball

964
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 7: out of the park.

965
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: Stephen, indeed, Rottendo, thanks so much, doctor Rottendo and Dingui

966
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 2: of course, the the founding director of Tribe Africa Advisory,

967
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 2: will speak again next week. Personal Finance with Warren Ingram

968
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 2: Well twenty two minutes now top the time, A good

969
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 2: moment in the sort of second or third week of January,

970
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: depending on how you define your start of the working year,

971
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 2: to have a look at your financial freedom number. In

972
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 2: other words, what for you is the number that you

973
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 2: need to retire on if your income stops. Warren Ingram

974
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 2: is a certified financial planner at Galileo Capital. Warren good evening,

975
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: I mean so often. In fact, the whole point of

976
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 2: talking to you once a week is to have financial freedom,

977
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 2: but to actually work out the number. There's something quite

978
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 2: sort of beautifully simple about it. I always think.

979
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 17: You're right even and for me it's my I mean,

980
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 17: I know, it's my favorite topics. I think I could

981
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 17: talk about this all day, every day, but I think

982
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 17: the start of the year is a very good time

983
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 17: to have a conversation like this because it's not just

984
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 17: about housekeeping. It's also I would hope for a lot

985
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 17: of us maybe a little motivating to figure out where

986
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 17: we are, you know, compared to where we were a

987
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:22,439
Speaker 17: year ago.

988
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 2: Have we made some progress, And.

989
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 17: Especially after a year like twenty five, twenty twenty five

990
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 17: where the markets were good to us, you know, one

991
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,479
Speaker 17: hopes that actually you've got a bit of market growth

992
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 17: and it wasn't all just down to your savings. So

993
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 17: to me, it's a little bit like true North for

994
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 17: our planning. You know, where are we and where are

995
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 17: we going? And a lot of the time when I

996
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,760
Speaker 17: speak to people about about their money, if they feel

997
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 17: you know, out of control and they feel but aimless

998
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 17: about their money, it's it's almost literally because they have

999
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 17: no aim, they have no goal, they don't know what

1000
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 17: their number is. So I think it's a good one

1001
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 17: to understand, and you're right, it is very simple to me.

1002
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 17: Even I can work it out on my calculator on

1003
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 17: my phone. So I think it's something we can all

1004
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 17: do for ourselves once a year, without you know, launching

1005
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 17: big AI apps or big Excel spreadsheets.

1006
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 2: Okay, so then how do you begin to calculate this?

1007
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: And I suppose what we're asking about is the factors

1008
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 2: that we use, which is about how much we earn,

1009
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: but it's about how much we're going to spend, right.

1010
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 17: Yeah, I think a lot of the time, you know,

1011
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 17: we start in the wrong direction because we focus on

1012
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 17: what we earn. And the reason that's not very relevant

1013
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 17: is you know, your list style is not determined by

1014
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 17: your income, and I know sometimes people think that, but

1015
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 17: actually your last styles determined by what you spend, and

1016
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 17: so it's a crucial number and it's one that you

1017
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 17: have some control over. So when you're doing your financial

1018
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 17: freedom number, to me, the thing you start with is,

1019
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 17: you know, if you don't know what you spend in

1020
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 17: an average month, and maybe therefore in an average year.

1021
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 17: Then look back at your banking app or your you know,

1022
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 17: if you do have if you don't use cash, then

1023
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 17: certainly on your banking app and your credit cards, look

1024
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 17: at what you've spent over the last three months, because

1025
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 17: it's probably a good average, and you need to include

1026
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 17: everything in that expenditure. In other words, what you've spent

1027
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 17: on holidays, what you've spent on you know, if you

1028
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 17: own a property, on your rates, and if you don't,

1029
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 17: what you spend on rent and gifts and all that stuff,

1030
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 17: car maintenance, everything. Put it all together and get to

1031
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 17: a monthly number, and then multiply that by twelve. The

1032
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 17: reason we're doing that is we want to get to

1033
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 17: what it costs you to run your lifestyle over a

1034
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 17: typical year. And just to do the simple math, if

1035
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 17: you're spending forty thousand a month as an average, then

1036
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 17: that means you're you're spending four hundred and eighty thousand

1037
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 17: a year, and that's the key number. That's your your

1038
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 17: lifestyle costs in a year. And from there, the simple

1039
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 17: part is you multiply that by twenty five and you

1040
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 17: are now at your financial freedom number. It's the number

1041
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 17: of the amount you need in investment assets to fund

1042
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 17: the lifestyle that you're currently living.

1043
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 2: Okay, so I mean your financial freedom number there would

1044
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 2: be about twelve million Rand, and that's the four percent rul.

1045
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 2: What is the four percentral? Because that's crucial to this.

1046
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 17: Yeah, So once you've got your number, the twelve million,

1047
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 17: if you took twelve million and you worked out what

1048
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 17: four hundred and eighty thousand is as a percentage of

1049
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 17: twelve million, it's going to work out to four percent.

1050
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 17: And four percent is kind of a magic number because

1051
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 17: if you look at for example, you know, typical balanced

1052
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 17: trusts over a long period of time, they will generate

1053
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 17: a return of about ten percent of the last thirty years,

1054
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 17: so ten percent a year of the last thirty years.

1055
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 2: So if you're drawing four percent a.

1056
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 17: Year, that means that you're leaving behind six percent a

1057
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 17: year to be reinvested. And if you look at our

1058
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 17: inflation rate, I know it's relatively low now and let's

1059
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 17: hope it stays that way, but if you look at

1060
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 17: inflation over a longer period of time, it's been around

1061
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 17: that six percent level. So six pers four gets us

1062
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 17: back to ten. So if you can draw four percent

1063
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 17: from your investments, and you leave the balance behind to

1064
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 17: be reinvested. It means that the buying power of your

1065
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 17: money is either staying the same or it's growing, because

1066
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 17: the balance that you've left behind is the part that

1067
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 17: gives you the capital growth to match the cost of

1068
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 17: living increases. And so for me, that's why four percent

1069
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 17: is a very important number when you're looking at this

1070
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 17: to say, I don't want to start and you know,

1071
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 17: let's say hit financial freedom and spend my four hundred

1072
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 17: and eighty thousand round a year and I've forgotten about

1073
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 17: the creep of lifestyle costs. And in ten years, I'm

1074
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 17: still spending four hundred and eighty thousand round a year,

1075
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 17: but it can't buy me anything like it it was

1076
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 17: buying me ten years before.

1077
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 2: Okay. And then obviously you've got to see what your

1078
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 2: investments are doing, because at four percent, if you're taking

1079
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 2: out four percent, they might still be growing significantly and

1080
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 2: you might actually be okay for quite a while.

1081
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 17: You can, and I think you know, it's also why

1082
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 17: we can exert some control over our financial position because

1083
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 17: in a very good year, for example, last year, you know,

1084
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 17: if balanced funds were generating twenty percent, and you decide

1085
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 17: to maintain your withdrawal of four percent, it means you've

1086
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 17: left a lot of growth on the table to stay invested,

1087
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 17: to give you some protection against the bad years. And

1088
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 17: there have been years, you know, if we think about

1089
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 17: twenty twenty and before that two thousand and eight when

1090
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:56,440
Speaker 17: the markets lost money, and it's the protection against those

1091
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 17: kinds of years. Where is why you don't want to

1092
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 17: draw all of the growth both out of your investments.

1093
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 17: You want the good years to kind of build up

1094
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 17: that leeway and the cushion and the safety net in

1095
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 17: your financial planning. And I think if you stay disciplined

1096
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 17: and you continue to draw the four percent, if you

1097
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 17: do that every year, sometimes your portfolio will be down,

1098
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 17: and drawing four percent means that you might be spending

1099
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 17: a little bit less than you did the year before.

1100
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 3: But generally, over a long period of.

1101
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 17: Time, you'll actually find that your lifestyle will continue to

1102
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 17: grow and improve. It won't just be stagnant as it

1103
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 17: was when you hit your financial freedom number. So for me,

1104
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 17: a lot of the time when we have these conversations,

1105
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 17: people always go yes, but you know, yes, I had

1106
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 17: an emergency, or you know, food inflation has gone up

1107
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 17: much faster. And that's true over you know, one or

1108
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 17: two or three year period. You don't know exactly what

1109
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 17: inflation is going to do. And this kind of a

1110
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 17: rule doesn't work, you know, perfectly every single year. It

1111
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 17: works very well over a typical decade. And that's why

1112
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 17: you've got to be careful about controlling your expenses. But

1113
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,040
Speaker 17: it is possible for us all to get.

1114
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 2: Okay, and we need to sort of really get on

1115
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 2: top of the idea that it's not how much we're earning,

1116
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 2: it's how much we spend is actually the big variable here.

1117
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 17: Yeah, and you know, I did three examples just to

1118
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 17: show you how powerful your your spending is in this equation.

1119
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 17: So for someone who spends an average of fifteen thousand

1120
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 17: round a month, their financial freedom number is four and

1121
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 17: a half million. So you spend fifteen you need four

1122
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 17: and a half million of investments. If you spend fifty

1123
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 17: thousand a month and you leave the balance to or

1124
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 17: you need the a balance of fifteen million of investments.

1125
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 17: So suddenly you see, you know, it's a huge jump.

1126
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 17: And then a lot of high income owners are probably

1127
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 17: spending around one hundred and twenty thousand a month and

1128
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 17: they'll tell you that they can't get by with anything less.

1129
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 17: And for someone in that position, if you're spending one

1130
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 17: hundred and twenty thousand a month, you need thirty six

1131
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 17: million rands worth of investments. And we haven't spoken about

1132
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 17: your income here. So someone who's earning very well, you know,

1133
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 17: potentially earning one hundred thousand nine a month and is

1134
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 17: only spending fifty thousand a month, they're going to get

1135
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 17: to financial freedom very quickly because they are saving a

1136
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 17: huge amount of money and getting themselves to that position

1137
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 17: where their assets are going to cover their expenses. The

1138
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,439
Speaker 17: fact that they earn much more than that doesn't matter

1139
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 17: to them because they're getting to that financial freedom so

1140
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 17: much more quickly, and then they can make different decisions

1141
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 17: about how they work, whether they work, whether they want

1142
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 17: to spend a bit more on luxuries because they've reached

1143
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 17: their financial freedom goal. But it's going to take someone

1144
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 17: a very long time to get to an investment value

1145
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 17: of thirty six million to fund lifestyle costs of one

1146
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 17: hundred and twenty thousand a month. And that's the thing

1147
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 17: you can control. You're not obliged to spend one hundred

1148
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 17: and twenty thousand a month.

1149
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 2: So okay, this in a way, it's quite a personal

1150
01:04:56,160 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 2: decision because I know some people and you know, you

1151
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: know them as kids, and they're the ones who still

1152
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 2: have last Easter's easter eggs, you know, the chocolate when

1153
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 2: the next easter runs around, and they're able to actually

1154
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 2: limit their spending and they get that economic freedom quite quickly,

1155
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 2: and plenty of others will say, you know, yes, dad,

1156
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 2: and by lunchtime it's all gone, and in fact they're

1157
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 2: kind of happy, I suppose until they get a bit older. Yeah,

1158
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:24,919
Speaker 2: it's it's true.

1159
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 17: And I think you know, financial freedoms are I mean,

1160
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 17: the reason why we talk about financial freedom versus retirement

1161
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 17: is at some point retirement gets imposed on us. If

1162
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 17: you work for the large banks in South Africa, they

1163
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 17: usually kick you art at round about age sixty two

1164
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 17: or sixty three, I'm not sure of the number, but

1165
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 17: you know, many other organizations would say age sixty five,

1166
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 17: and so you might hit retirement. But but you're not

1167
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 17: financially free. And for me, that's quite a scary position

1168
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 17: to be in because you know, a rule, you know,

1169
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 17: a contract has decided your financial future. It's not that

1170
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 17: you've taken control. Someone is exert control on you and

1171
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 17: and and what over you. And that's why, you know,

1172
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 17: for me, I particularly don't want to be told what

1173
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 17: to do. You know, I have that that flaw in

1174
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 17: my personality that I don't want anyone to tell me

1175
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 17: what to do. So I'm going to work incredibly hard

1176
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 17: to get to financial freedom so that I can be

1177
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 17: the master of my own destiny or my own disaster

1178
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 17: either way. And so I think you know, when we're

1179
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 17: talking about financial freedom, it is important for you to

1180
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 17: say this is important to me. It's something that I

1181
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 17: want to achieve. I'm prepared to make some trade offs

1182
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 17: to get there as quickly as possible, or you know,

1183
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 17: if if you're happy, let's sad. A sort of classic case,

1184
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 17: someone who works in an academic institution and they know

1185
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 17: that they're going to do this job for the rest

1186
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 17: of their working lives, that they might say, I'm going

1187
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 17: to save a reasonable amount, but I'm going to spend

1188
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 17: significantly more because i know I've got, you know, a

1189
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 17: good position. I know I've got an irreplaceable career. I'm

1190
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 17: not sure if such a thing exists anymore, but maybe

1191
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 17: you believe that. And I'm happy in the job. That

1192
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 17: I'm that I'm doing and I'm happy to do it

1193
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 17: and until sixty five or seventy or something like that.

1194
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 17: And so for someone in that position, freedom is not

1195
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 17: as important as you know, living day to day. And

1196
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 17: so for them, they need to save, but they don't

1197
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 17: need to necessarily be as aggressive in their saving.

1198
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 2: Where does your home put into all of this, because

1199
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 2: I think a lot of us think of think of

1200
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 2: our home as kind of part of our investments.

1201
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 17: Yeah, and you know, I think, you know, sort of

1202
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 17: financial planning one or one would say that it's not

1203
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 17: a bad idea at retirement to have a paid off

1204
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 17: house in which you live, because it's a it's a

1205
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 17: cost then that you don't need to carry you if

1206
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 17: you were comparing ownership versus rent. And you know, I

1207
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 17: don't have a problem with that idea, But it doesn't

1208
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 17: form part of your investment assets. So back to the

1209
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 17: example of someone who spends one hundred and twenty than

1210
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 17: a month, they need thirty six million rands worth of

1211
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 17: investments to generate an income for them, and your house

1212
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 17: in this instance is not an income generating asset unless

1213
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 17: you've got a whole lot of extra rooms on the side.

1214
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 17: Or something that generates you, you know, additional rent. But

1215
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 17: if it's a normal home and the only thing you

1216
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 17: do is live there and it doesn't generate you any income,

1217
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 17: then you need to ignore it for the purposes of

1218
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 17: your investment assets. And so it's an additional asset that

1219
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 17: sits on the side. In fact, it should be part

1220
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 17: of your last dile costs, because it's going to cost

1221
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 17: you money to pay the rent or sorry to pay

1222
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 17: the rates, pay the maintenance, pay levees if you stay

1223
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 17: in a body corporate, and so it should be part

1224
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 17: of your expenses, but certainly something you ignore as an

1225
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 17: investment asset.

1226
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 2: Okay, a couple of WhatsApp messages coming through, and let

1227
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 2: me sort of put them to you to give you

1228
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 2: a chance to muld them over if I can. Warren

1229
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,839
Speaker 2: Lolly says, I've ten years of work left. My savings

1230
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,719
Speaker 2: and pensions have been depleted for various personal and work reasons.

1231
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 2: What do I do now until I'm sixty five? Okay,

1232
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 2: so ten years of work left there for Lolly. And

1233
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 2: then as Stefano was saying, if I at seventy seven,

1234
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 2: can the four percent increase to say six percent? And

1235
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 2: I think that's the question about how much life is

1236
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 2: left and how much you can spend. And I'm gonna

1237
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 2: put those to you after the break in a moment

1238
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 2: eight minutes, not eight.

1239
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 10: The Money Show with Stephen Quetis is brought to you

1240
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 10: by abs A cib A Pan African Bank invested in

1241
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 10: your story and the potential it can unlock because your

1242
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 10: story matters as as the Register the FSP Many Personal

1243
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 10: Finance with Warren Ingram.

1244
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 2: Warren Ingram, of course a co founder antivite financial planner

1245
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 2: at Galileo Capital. Warrent, all right, some questions for you tonight, LOLLI,

1246
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 2: what'sappening saying I've got ten years of work left. I

1247
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 2: don't have any savings left for various reasons. What do

1248
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 2: I do now until I'm sixty five? I mean, Lolli's

1249
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 2: in a tough place, Warren, but actually probably reflects where

1250
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 2: so many people are. Yeah, I think that's very true.

1251
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:48,640
Speaker 17: And I mean the one thing to say, Lollie is

1252
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 17: you've got ten years which if you're if you're careful

1253
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 17: now you know you can make a massive difference to

1254
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 17: your financial position. So firstly, I think, I mean it

1255
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 17: sounds obvious, but you do need to take full control

1256
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 17: over your expenses and see how much you can cut

1257
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 17: your expenses down now, because you don't want to be

1258
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 17: doing this at retirement age, when you don't have an

1259
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 17: income and you can't adjust to a new reality. So

1260
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 17: if you haven't cut your expenses already, you know it's

1261
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 17: time to take a hard look at what you're spending

1262
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,560
Speaker 17: and make sure that you're pairing it down to the

1263
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 17: necessities now. Unfortunately, you know, with ten years of work

1264
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 17: to go and no savings, it means you know, luxuries

1265
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 17: are not on your radar at the moment that they

1266
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 17: might come back into the future, but for now, pare

1267
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 17: down your expenses as much as you can. And then

1268
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 17: you've got to save like crazy, and you've got to

1269
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:43,559
Speaker 17: make sure that nothing gets in the way of your

1270
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 17: saving now. And I think you know, try and build

1271
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 17: up your retirement savings as much as you can, and

1272
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 17: you know, use the retirement fund exemptions that SARAS gives

1273
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 17: us for making contributions to our pension, provident and retirement

1274
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:59,560
Speaker 17: and newity funds and see what you can do. And

1275
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 17: then don't forget that you have by the time you

1276
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 17: hit edge sixty five, that's not the end of your

1277
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 17: usefulness to society or your ability to earn an income,

1278
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:11,320
Speaker 17: because you need to make sure that in the next

1279
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 17: ten years you stay you know, you stay current. You've

1280
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:16,600
Speaker 17: got time, and you've got experience, and that can be

1281
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 17: hugely valuable to people who might not need you full time,

1282
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 17: but maybe they can use you part time. So start

1283
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 17: thinking about what you can do to add value to

1284
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 17: other businesses and other people with your time and your experience.

1285
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,719
Speaker 17: So I think, take action, and then don't don't feel

1286
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 17: hopeless that you stop earning everything after edge sixty five.

1287
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 3: That's not the case.

1288
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:40,760
Speaker 2: And if I may say, yeah, don't, don't for prey

1289
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 2: to scammers because you're desperate. Just be very aware of

1290
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 2: that exactly. Warren Soefano's question at seventy seven, instead of

1291
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,639
Speaker 2: spending four percent, can I increase it to six percent?

1292
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:53,599
Speaker 3: YEP.

1293
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 17: I think it's a it's actually a very good point.

1294
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 2: I should have made it.

1295
01:11:56,600 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 17: So, I mean, when we're I mean, not not to

1296
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 17: be morbid, Steffiner, but if you're at age seventy six,

1297
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 17: the actuaries would say that you probably passed away somewhere

1298
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 17: around age eighty five to ninety And certainly if you're not.

1299
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 17: You know, if you don't want to leave behind all

1300
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 17: of your investment assets to the next generation, or you'd

1301
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 17: like to use some of them, then you can start

1302
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 17: to escalate your drawing draw down knowing that you're probably

1303
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 17: going to start eating into your capital a little bit.

1304
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 17: And I think drawing down six percent is very responsible.

1305
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 17: There's nothing wrong with that when you when you're seventy

1306
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:34,679
Speaker 17: six years old. I would be careful of going, for example,

1307
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 17: to ten percent. I think that's a bit steep, but

1308
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 17: six percent is certainly a responsible rate of drawing when

1309
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 17: you at that age.

1310
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 2: I mean, one, we've got a question from David saying

1311
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:48,799
Speaker 2: the four percent rules slash twenty five multipliers. Someone misleading

1312
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 2: as the monthly amount you want to spend is after

1313
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:54,719
Speaker 2: tax income. Therefore to have fifty thousand post tax income,

1314
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 2: you must actually have around seventy thousand round per month

1315
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 2: in retirement income.

1316
01:12:59,320 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 8: Is that right?

1317
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 17: It's it's It's the wonderful thing about financial planning because

1318
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 17: there are a million ways to approach this. I think

1319
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 17: for South Africa, four percent of after tax is fine

1320
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 17: because generally you're probably going to be drawing actually five

1321
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 17: percent and you're going to pay away some of that

1322
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:22,480
Speaker 17: to tax, and so I've already put tax into that calculation.

1323
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 17: Four percent works very well, you know on pre tax

1324
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 17: money when you're overseas, but in South Africa it's five

1325
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 17: five percent pre tax. But for this calculation to get

1326
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 17: to the freedom number, we use four percent to help

1327
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:37,599
Speaker 17: people get to the actual, their actual personal financial freedom number.

1328
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 2: Okay, we've got thirty seconds left. But financial freedom is

1329
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 2: on a spectrum. And say you get to fifty percent

1330
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,400
Speaker 2: of your financial freedom number, what does that get you?

1331
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 2: What do you get with that? Now? Don't just mean

1332
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 2: you feel half free?

1333
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 17: Yeah, it's it's not like an exam that you know

1334
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,560
Speaker 17: you have to get to fifty percent or more to

1335
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 17: pass or fail. It's a it's on a spectrum. So

1336
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 17: the more capital you start to accumulate and the more

1337
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 17: of your expenses you can cover, it means that when

1338
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 17: you're at fifty percent of your financial freedom number, you're

1339
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 17: halfway there. You've got a huge amount of choice to

1340
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 17: be able to make when you want to work the job,

1341
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 17: you want to work for, the boss you want, et cetera.

1342
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 17: So you're a long way to your goal already. You

1343
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 17: probably you are very close and much better than a

1344
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 17: lot of people in the world.

1345
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 2: Warren Ingram, thank you so much, such an interesting comment

1346
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 2: a topic, and that so many calls messages coming through.

1347
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 2: Warren Ingram is the co founder of Galileo Capital and

1348
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:31,599
Speaker 2: of course a certified financial planner.

1349
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,040
Speaker 10: The Money Show with Stephen Quotas is brought to you

1350
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 10: by abs as cib a Pan African bank invested in

1351
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 10: your story and the potential it can unlock because your

1352
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 10: story matters.

1353
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:48,120
Speaker 2: APS is the rest the FSP well, no financial freedom

1354
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 2: numbers from anyone, anyone in the United States. Tonight market's

1355
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 2: taking a sharp and negative reaction ready to the Greenland tariffs,

1356
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 2: so that Dow Jones down one point to it, then

1357
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 2: ASSEC down one half. There's an five hundred down one

1358
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 2: point three percent. Tonight Aubrey is next. We back tomorrow,

1359
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:05,559
Speaker 2: good evening at eight o'clock