WEBVTT - The Profile: Celine Tshika 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:05.559 All right, My next guest wears many many hats. Comedian, singer, songwriter, sketchwriter, 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.760 filmmaker award winner, and she's passionate about sharing stories that 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:15.680 reflect the African experience beyond the stereotypes. Born in the DRC, 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.639 raised in South Africa, has spent time in Los Angeles 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.440 and now it's back here. Her work is really a 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:28.840 candid and very very funny look at identity belonging the 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:35.400 African diaspora experience, and her solo musical stand up show 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.400 Bad African recently won the Standard Bank Ofation Award at 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.720 the National Arts Festival in Makanda. I am thrilled to 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.279 welcome Selene Chica two Weekend Breakfast. 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:46.360 Hello, Hello, thank you so much. 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:48.600 I've wanted to have you on the show for so long, 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.080 and in fact, I think my friend Nina said. 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:52.720 You've got to get her on. You've got to get 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:54.840 her on so long. So there we are. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:55.279 She's here. 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:55.960 Nina. 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:02.000 You've got such a fascinating background, interested by how we 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.680 end up all over the world as Africans and what 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.120 that means, and how we moved through parts of the 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:12.640 world as African people, particularly as African women born in 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.119 the day, I see, yeah, right, okay, And at what 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:16.319 point did you leave? 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:19.600 I left. I was the youngest, so I was a 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:21.880 baby when we left. I only went back for about 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.800 a year when I was between thirteen and fourteen, and 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:26.560 then I would go back because I made friends and 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.440 I'd go back on holidays. But I am South African. 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:33.080 I grew up here. I grew up in Johannesburg, right, okay, yeah, 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.199 so that is my story. I'm the last born of four, 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.000 so yeah. My siblings have more of an experience of 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.520 you know, being children and being young in Congo. Yeah, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.000 I only have the I guess the teenage experience. 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:47.640 Right yeah. 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:47.480 Yeah. 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.320 And then in terms of you as a as a 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:54.040 young person growing up in joe Burg, what was your 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:55.720 what what was your thing? 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.160 What was it? Were you always writing? Performing? 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.720 Yes? But I was. I grew up quite a shy kid. 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.600 So yeah, so I didn't like acting. Was not in 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:07.600 the realm of possibility for me. I wasn't. I was 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.720 like the drama kids are outgoing kids, not me. But 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.919 I really loved dancing. That was the first creative thing 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.679 I really enjoyed. And then I started singing and then writing, 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.680 So yeah, it came to me quite late, and it 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:21.440 was only in high school, like in my trick, that 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.079 I thought I really have enjoyed this drama thing. I 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.960 think I wanted, I want to act. But yeah, but 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.120 then you know, the parents worked very hard sent me 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:35.200 to that school. Yeah, you're gonna have to get a 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:39.200 real degree first, please, So yeah, So then I got 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.520 the engineering degree. It was very hard not to drive 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:43.919 out eventually. 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.280 Hey, like when you're when you're doing that, when you're 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.360 doing the engineering degree, you're just not. 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.360 In the first two years, Yes, I think I was 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:52.919 in my like. 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.040 Apart from the fear of your black parents. 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.720 Mostly the fear of the black parents, I must say, 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.720 and my older siblings being like humbling me, like I 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:04.080 don't know who you think you are, but we all 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.920 have to do this, so you know that's I respect that. 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.520 But I think I did. I do really enjoy I 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.200 did enjoy science in school, so you know, there was 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.120 a part of me that did find the joy in engineering. 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.200 And then by the time after second year, I'd threatened to, 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:21.240 you know, drop out so many times that I was like, 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.000 I'm halfway, I might as well see it through. And 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:25.959 the exchange was that then I could then they would 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.560 support me and going to film school. So yeah, it 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:30.560 was kind of like we need this so that we 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.079 feel better about like what the job that we did 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.040 for our kids, and then you can do what you want. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.640 So I'm fascinated by the comedy. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.800 I think comedy is such an interesting, such an interesting 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.600 thing for me because the end product, the end product 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:48.360 of the comedy is the laughter. Yeah, but there's so 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:54.240 much psychology. Yeah, it's for that point, Like an awful 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.880 lot of the commit I've interviewed many comedians in my time. 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.800 An awful lot of them are miserable. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:09.120 But oh but by their own admission, like manic depress it, 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:13.000 you know, like dealing with some serious mental health staff. Yeah, 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.960 don't really like people a lot and criticism because I 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.279 relate quite hard to a lot of that. But just this, 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.200 it's such a it's such a juxtaposition of the end 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.120 result being that you are bringing joy and laughter to 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.040 another human being, but the process to. 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:34.000 Get Yeah, And I think that's because of it's the observation, 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:37.680 you know, Like I think anyone who you know is 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.880 a comedian is observing society and is noticing things so 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.440 that we can make fun of them. And you know, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.240 there's a downside to noticing things is that you you're 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.760 affected by them, like oh that's you know, that's really 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.960 horrible that's happening, or that that happens. How can I 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.120 feel better about it, you know, is to find the 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.160 irony in it and all that. But yeah, it is 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.479 very interesting about comedians and I uh, you know, I'm 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:07.839 not beating the stereotypes. There definitely also struggle with mental health, 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.400 and yeah, it's mostly from that. And I think particularly 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.159 with like satire, when you're you know, you're poking fun 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.920 at you know, people in power and all that, that 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:21.880 is just about paying attention and that's not fun. I'm 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:23.760 almost like, know what's going on right. 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.600 Right in terms of that, like who who were you? 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.919 Who were you looking at when you were kind of 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.560 coming up as inform. 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.520 Or you know. Yeah, I think in terms of my 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.520 comedy journey is quite long. But I think the first 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.280 thing I ever watched was Chewing Gum by Mikaela Cole 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.840 where I really felt represented for the first time. Yeah, 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.360 it was a Netflix show and I think seeing someone 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.640 who was of African descent as well starring in a 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.560 comedy and it was so silly and her mom looked 0:05:54.560 --> 0:06:00.360 like it is Yeah, and that was it was Oh 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.880 my gosh, I'd never thought of screenwriting. I'd never thought 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:07.080 of writing comedy at all. And then from there there 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.440 was Tina Fey as well with Unbreakable Commishiment, and that 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.000 was there was a whole episode that was just a mockumentary, 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.680 and I think that was when it really clicked for me, like, oh, 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.160 this is the kind of comedy I want to do. Yeah, 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.720 And so yeah, I did a lot of little satirical 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.120 like sketches. Yeah, and it's all from before. It was 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.400 just like poking fun of gender norms, you know, Like 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.599 I did a sketch called Stank Like a Man that 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.719 was just like a masculinity affirming body wash that was 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.640 just kind of making fun about why do we need 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.840 to have like cool sport rush, you know, like as 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:46.440 a as a flavor profile for men's body wash. Yeah, 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.360 So it was just like fun to kind of poke 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.159 fun at things like that. And yeah, and then stand 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.200 up was kind of the last thing for me to think, Oh, Okay, 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.040 I think that's something I want to try as well. 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.240 So it's a different form of comedic storytelling, right, So. 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.120 Yeah, talk to me about the stand up because again 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.840 that that is a that is an area of performance 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:07.599 that makes me sweat. 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:10.360 I do understand. 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:16.560 It's so remarkable to me. I think there's anything I'd 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.760 rather do. And I consider myself to be quite a 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:25.640 funny person. But she said modestly, But that's not it. 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.040 It's not about are you a funny persons? Again, the 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.720 psychology behind it, and the psychology of standing on stage 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.480 and doing one of the hardest things on earth to 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.840 make another connect with somebody in a way that what 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.280 you're saying connects with something relatable, the observation thing, which 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.200 then forces them to force them. 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.080 To a lot like that. There's so much pressure in that. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.160 Yeah, there is, for sure, it is. It is scary, 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.840 and in the end of time, I think that's not 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.160 that scary. Five minutes before I'm on stage, I think, 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:00.600 oh my gosh, my gosh, am I doing this? Why 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.520 I'm doing this? One of this could go so terribly 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:04.800 every single time that I don't know that's ever going 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.880 to go away because it could go terribly, you know it. Really, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:11.560 it's always definitely, Yeah, it's part of like we call 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.920 it dying on stage. Yeah, part of it is is 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.720 just part of the job. Sometimes you will be haunted 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.360 by it four days to come and you won't want 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.320 to leave the house. And then eventually you'll think, Okay, well, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.920 you know I'm still funny. Technically, hopefully someone will. 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:33.439 I'm still I wonder to what degree you like, what's 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:34.359 the what's. 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.480 The turnaround time from a bad show? 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.920 Yeah, the hope. Actually the cure for that is to 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.920 just do another show, to just go go deserving us. 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.880 Yeah, I feel sick talking about that's that's how much 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.600 I promise you. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:53.920 It's like I'm about that. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.839 It's like you said to me, well in five minutes time, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:57.600 you're going to go on before I need to talk 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.280 myself off the ledge because it's fine. 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:00.160 I don't have to do this. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.160 This is where I am. It's all right. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.760 Yeah, yeah, And I think that, you know, people laugh 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.600 for so many different reasons. It's not always like haha, 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.240 that's funny. You know. Sometimes you just fully understand that 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.720 experience and so that's why you laugh. And sometimes you 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:16.760 like the person that's why you laugh. You know. There's 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.199 there's so many reasons that someone would laugh. Sometimes they 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.160 might find something funny, but they're here with someone and 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.360 they worried about what they're going to think, and you know, 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.640 there's there's so many aspects to it. So I think 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.319 it's just you don't know what you're going to get. Yeah, 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:32.800 and there's a little bit of fun in the risk. 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.719 I think, I just you know, let's try it out. 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.440 Might work out, might not. But I think just telling 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.079 a story, you know, if you find the joy in 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:45.360 telling a story and sharing a thought perspective. I think 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:49.120 when I started treating open mics as like a feedback session, 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.080 you know, I'm going to try a new joke, I 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.400 have no idea if it's gonna work. Okay, they laughed 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:54.920 at that part and not at that part. Okay, let 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:56.720 me go home and cut out the other one and 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:57.320 change this. 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:05.400 And to what extent does your audience determine? To what 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:09.640 extent does your does your audience determine where you. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:13.560 Explore your work further? 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:19.160 I think that is I guess what I want to say. 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.120 What the audience will tell me with laughing or not laughing, 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.280 is like they relate to this or they don't. 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.800 Relate to this African context. 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:31.760 That's gonna change, depending yes, depending on where. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.600 Yeah, definitely for sure. So I think that's why it's 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.640 a numbers game. It's just you go do all these 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.440 open mics, you go to you know, perform all these 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.280 shows so you get a good perspective of Okay, seven 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.520 different audiences laughed at that part. None of them laughed 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.920 at this part. Okay, let's maybe reconsider. So I think, 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.559 you know, like I would say that artists and comedians 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.200 and stuff, we reflect society. You know, we reflect where 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.200 we're at. So if I'm experiencing something in the last 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:00.959 year or two and I want to talk about the 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.640 chances that someone else has experienced it as well, and 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:05.760 it's just about finding the best way to tell the 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.000 story and making sure that the joker is on the 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.800 right person, you know, the jokers. Yeah, but there's also 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:15.560 just an art to the performance of emphasizing a particular 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.040 word or syllable or you know, saying things in a 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.520 particular way. There's so many nuancewers to it. So I 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.319 think there's always this like endless way of improving your 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.080 set that Yeah, it can be a really fun experience. 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:29.440 I want to go back to what you just said 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.400 there to make sure the joke is on the right person. 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.560 That's another This is Another conversation I love having with 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:34.960 comedians is around. 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:37.280 What's okay, what's not okay? 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.240 How How I look at stuff that I laughed at 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.680 and found funny fifteen years ago, and. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:50.440 I'm like, yeah, that's not okay. Yes, yeah, it makes 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:51.359 me uncomfortable. 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.000 Like there's some early kind of Ricky Gervat's stuff that 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:59.880 I'm like, actually agree with that and find that funny. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.400 I find that ridiculous or whatever, and I think that's okay. 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.160 I think it's okay to be self reflective in what 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.840 is you know, and you grow and you change and 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.480 things become but where do you how how has your 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:12.880 what's your barometer? 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:18.080 Hmmm? I think that okay. Well, humor changes over time, right, 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.760 and that's okay, That's that's normal. And you know, things 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.760 jokes I'm making today are just not going to be 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.400 that funny in fifteen years, right. So I think it's 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.880 just about adapting and yeah, understanding that we have different 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:34.320 conversations as society, so you know, we're just more aware 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.720 of certain issues. So there was even a joke I 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.400 had written about Congo, you know, just about like electricity 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.560 in Congo versus South Africa, you know, and when you know, 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.320 more people started finding out about, you know, the situation 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.160 in Congo, I thought I had to reconsider how I 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.480 was telling this joke so I could make sure that 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.079 the nuance was there, you know that It's like, oh, 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.120 now I'm no longer talking about a country that like 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.800 no one knows anything about. Yeah, more, it's not just 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.320 thing that me and my family and my community know. 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.920 A lot more people are understanding, so the tendency will 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.720 be a bit more compassionate. It won't be like, ah, 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.320 this random country in Africa as oh, no, I know 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.720 what's happening. I read a news story, you know, so yeah, 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:15.840 I need to be just a lot more careful about 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.280 how I tell that story so that I I allow 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.439 them to feel safe enough to laugh, you know, as 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.800 opposed to yeah, but how I frame the story so 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.079 that they understand that I'm not I know what I'm 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:33.079 making fun of, and it's not Congolese people or you know. Yeah, 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:37.360 so it's it's Yeah, making sure the joke is on 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.280 the right person is always just about And that's how 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.880 that's the basis of satire is is that it's the 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.120 powerful people that you need to be making fun of. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.640 You know, if you're if you're comparing to population groups, 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:50.640 the more powerful one is the one that the joke 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.720 needs to land on, right, because not the vulnerable community, 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:56.760 because then that's just bullying, right, you see? 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.240 And this is I was there was some debate around 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.400 an issue, an issue to do with I can't even 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.760 know who it was, had told a joke. I don't 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:07.719 want to say a trans joke. It wasn't a trans joke. 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.280 It was it was a joke in which trans people 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:15.280 were spoken about, and and and the comedian and I 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.200 can't remember who it was. Well, just because you're offender 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.240 doesn't mean that it's not still funny. It's like, but 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:21.760 what you're doing there is you are? 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:22.880 You are? 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.600 The first of all was it wasn't funny, But the 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.960 second of all, like you are, you are making a 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:32.640 marginalized group and you're you're making the joke about their 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:34.240 their life experience. 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:35.800 I can't find that funny. 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:37.800 I can't. I don't think that's okay. I don't think 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.640 that's a I'm not saying that there can't be joke 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.280 jokes about being chance. That can't be funny. That isn't 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.000 one of them. Yes, right, and and like you say, 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.520 it's all about nuanced, right, And I'm fining trance because 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.720 this was the thing, but I mean it could be anything, race, gender, yes, 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:55.800 whatever the story may be. 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.080 Yeah, it is. And especially if you are not in 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.080 that pretty that community, it's you have to be really 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:11.320 very careful. Yeah, exactly. They are at least one straight 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.720 comedian who made a really good trance joke because it 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.360 wasn't about the person being trans. It was like the 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:20.560 joke landed at the right place. And a lot of 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.440 times I find people laugh out of relief because when 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.800 he starts talking about it, they tense up. They're like, oh, no, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.360 what is the straight man gonna say about a trans person? 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.720 And then he makes the joke lands at the right place, 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:38.280 and everyone's just like kind of exhaled. Right, So yeah, 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.160 it's just about nuance. It's just if people can see that, 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.520 you see the humanity in this in this group, you 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.480 understand the struggle, and you know, you know that's you're 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.240 you're not speaking against them, You're not you're not encouraging 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.160 people to, you know, perpetuate stereotypes about them. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:16:03.000 Exactly. Tell me about your time in Los Angeles. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.600 Right, I had a great time. Let's say I did. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:08.400 It was like weird, but just about two years. Yeah. 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.920 So I did a very truncated one year acting for 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.080 film course and then where did you say, I stayed 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.960 in Burbank? Yeah, yeah, so and then I stayed for 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.720 a year and it was it was really good. I 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.080 think that. I it was obviously my first time studying 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.480 something I intended on using, so that was something new. 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.200 And then I was like, oh, this is a new feeling. 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.800 I want to do my own work. And then it 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.760 was do you have me like a very interesting experience 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.720 with you know, American stereotypes of African people. So I 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.360 think that so that's why I started my web series 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.960 about those encounters that I had. There were it was 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:51.200 pretty sad sometimes, I think hearing you know, like I 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.480 was in it. I was getting my hairs done and 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.880 the hair dresser's daughter was there just like helping to 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.000 undo my hair, and she was asking me these questions 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.960 were so ignorant about South Africa, like like the basic 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:06.800 things that you know ten years like coming to America 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.240 kind of humor, and you know, that was just very 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.280 I thought, oh, is this the education system here? Like 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.359 you don't know that we also have music. It was 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.679 it was Wow, it really was And I was like, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.720 am I in a sketch right now? You're like, is 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.600 this happening to me? So I think it was definitely 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:32.119 a source of inspiration for, you know, a series to write. 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.600 But what did you like about LA? What did you 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.040 what did you enjoy? 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.320 I like that. I guess my identity wasn't so much 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.639 in question, like in terms of like everyone is from somewhere, 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.040 and I think that that was I enjoyed that is 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.399 that everyone has like a different story and everyone just 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.240 comes here to just you know, figure out what they want. 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.920 And I really really enjoyed that. So yeah, it was 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.280 nice to just be It was definitely a big filmmaking community, 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.640 a big independent filmmaking community, so people are just keen 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.320 to hop onto projects and help out and that was 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:10.879 that was very very cool. So I think when I 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:12.840 put out my web series, just a lot of people 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.960 somehow found me on the Internet and then just were like, Hey, 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:17.520 do you want I can take photos for you on 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.199 your on your next shoot. I can do this, I 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.080 can do that. And it was a really great experience 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.879 of just finding the right people and them sending me 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.760 opportunities and sending me stuff. So it just felt very supportive. 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:30.280 Yeah. 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:34.919 Yeah, I must talk about the Standard Bank Ovation Award 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:40.120 for Bad African, which was the National Arts Festival. 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.160 Did you did you think you were going to win? Honestly? 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.160 Yeah, my director thought I was gonna win. Okay, I'll 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.120 say that. Sophie Jones, she's one. 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.280 Yes, I love Sophie. 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.720 It was so wonderful, wonderful working with her, and she 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:02.119 has faith in me, and I really appreciate it because 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.680 I think that really kept me going through this whole process. 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.160 There were definitely times of writing the show that I thought, 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.800 I mean, I know what I was trying to say, 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.000 I don't know how I'm going to say it, and yeah, 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:15.920 but I think it was. It did mean a lot 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:21.480 to be acknowledged, and yeah, it did was. It was 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:22.159 quite something. 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.960 So what is how does it help you? I don't 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.359 mean that in a cynical way, but how does it 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:29.960 help you? 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:35.640 Right? It's it's validation, you know, it's just okay, cool, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:36.760 I'm on the right track. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:37.240 You know. 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.280 Even though the show in my eyes isn't perfect, it 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:42.800 isn't exactly where I wanted to be. They see what 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.159 I was saying and they like hopped on board and 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.679 they said yes, and that that's just a great feeling, 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.200 you know that it's Yeah, it was quite a journey 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.560 to get it to this place. So it was just 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.200 affirming that what it is that I want to say 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.679 through the show, it's it's hitting and yeah, and that 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:04.520 was that was really wonderful, especially because my story has 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.639 a very pan African message. Yeah, and and yeah, and 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:10.800 I think that it could be validating to anyone really 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.080 in the global South and anyone in the diaspora. So 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:17.840 it just felt it's great to be recognized. I think assib. 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.040 By Selin chickens in the studio with us as our 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.639 profile guests this morning. What are you enjoying entertainment wise, 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.520 whether it be musically, whether it be television, whether it 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:31.080 be film. What is tickling your fancy at the moment? 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:37.439 Hmmm, film, film, film, I really okay, it's not at 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:41.000 the moment, but I really did enjoy Centers. I watched 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:45.160 The Studio as well on Apple TV. That was absolutely insane. 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:45.760 The studio. 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.960