1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,840
Speaker 1: Now it's a story that's had a lot of people

2
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Speaker 1: talking the idea that your brother or sister could be

3
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:11,280
Speaker 1: legally required to support you financially. Now, before everyone's sorts

4
00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,000
Speaker 1: sort of side eyeing, side dying their siblings, this isn't

5
00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 1: actually a brand new law, but the issue gained traction

6
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,239
Speaker 1: following a recent MPa webinar that happened in the Northern Cape,

7
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:32,519
Speaker 1: and in it, Senior State Advocate Makitzi Muclaudi clarified that

8
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,920
Speaker 1: siblings can, in certain situations have a legal duty to

9
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 1: provide maintenance. Now, if you know anything about the maintenance system,

10
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 1: you'll know that there are also situations where it's possible,

11
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 1: although I gather that it doesn't happen terribly often, but

12
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,640
Speaker 1: it is possible to apply for maintenance from a grandparent. Well,

13
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:56,800
Speaker 1: the ability to apply outside of the immediate other parent

14
00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 1: also extends to can extend to sibling on the availability.

15
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,200
Speaker 1: The availability is there in law, But when does that

16
00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 1: actually apply and how far does that responsibility go? And

17
00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,319
Speaker 1: should we be worried about now being taken to court

18
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,760
Speaker 1: by our family members. Let's bring in a family law

19
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,440
Speaker 1: expert really to clarify this for us, because I know

20
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,200
Speaker 1: it's something that people are maybe a little bit a

21
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 1: little bit confused about. Delighted to welcome to the show, Nicholine,

22
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,120
Speaker 1: William Stain. Very good to have you with us at Nicholine.

23
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 1: Appreciate your time this Sunday morning.

24
00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,360
Speaker 2: How are you good morning, Sarah Joana. I'm good things

25
00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 2: are you good? Yeah?

26
00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 1: I am. So let's clear this up because there's immediate

27
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 1: people jump on things like this, don't they, and before

28
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,680
Speaker 1: you know it, Facebook groups and WhatsApp groups are full

29
00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,600
Speaker 1: of misinformation. So can a sibling really be forced to

30
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,720
Speaker 1: pay maintenance or is this being blown way out of proportion?

31
00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,760
Speaker 2: You see, it's not really, It's never been uncommon, Sarah join.

32
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,520
Speaker 2: So it's always been the medianism has always been there,

33
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 2: and the Maintenance Act, specifically, you know, in section sixteen,

34
00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,280
Speaker 2: makes provision for a maintenance ordered that can be made

35
00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,880
Speaker 2: against any person that proved to be legally liable to

36
00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,440
Speaker 2: maintain any other person. So it's really not uncommon. It's

37
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,040
Speaker 2: just not a process that the maintenance courts usually follow

38
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,799
Speaker 2: because there's usually some other parents or a grandparent available

39
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,000
Speaker 2: or that's first in line to you know, take the

40
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 2: responsibility to pay the maintenance. But the you know, the

41
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 2: the common law duty has always remained upon siblings as well, So.

42
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 1: In what situations would it would a sibling actually be

43
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,840
Speaker 1: expected to step in financially. We we have had on

44
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,800
Speaker 1: this show very recently conversations with In fact, I spoke

45
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:56,840
Speaker 1: to the somebody from from the Justice Department very recently

46
00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,240
Speaker 1: to talk through maintenance. And we've had we hear from

47
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,880
Speaker 1: often moms, single moms on the show who talk about

48
00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,959
Speaker 1: how difficult the process is of maintenance just to get

49
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:12,079
Speaker 1: maintenance payments from farther from biological fathers, and how long

50
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,880
Speaker 1: and drawn out and inefficient that system is. And I

51
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,960
Speaker 1: really sort of held this person, you know, to task

52
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,799
Speaker 1: about that because it's a conversation that we have on

53
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,280
Speaker 1: the show very very often. So my immediate thought is given,

54
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 1: how difficult it can be to get a payment from

55
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 1: the biological parent you know, often father, but parent realistically

56
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 1: in what situations are and has the core ever found

57
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: that a sibling must pay? I mean, what is the

58
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 1: process to get to that?

59
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, if a claimant approaches a maintenance court

60
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,839
Speaker 2: in the area in which they reside, the court will

61
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 2: being usually obviously first look at the closer parents and

62
00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,840
Speaker 2: grand parents. And then if a claim and can prove

63
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,600
Speaker 2: that there's actually relatives that's close close to them, your

64
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:12,360
Speaker 2: brother's sister, whatever relevant siblings they are, then it's something

65
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,640
Speaker 2: that obviously the course doesn't take. Lastly, so they must

66
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,480
Speaker 2: be like heart proof that there is a sibling available

67
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:24,200
Speaker 2: and there's no other parents available to make this claim against.

68
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,160
Speaker 2: So it's really a matter of the onus is on

69
00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:33,880
Speaker 2: this climate to really prove that you know, the indigenousness

70
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,880
Speaker 2: of it, that there is no parents available or grandparents available,

71
00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,160
Speaker 2: So it's really just not an easy task on the climate.

72
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,039
Speaker 2: And then furthermore, they basically have to prove that there

73
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,840
Speaker 2: is a need for the basic support in terms of

74
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:55,960
Speaker 2: you know, clothing, food, medical, and accommodation. So it's really

75
00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,480
Speaker 2: for the basic support. It's not luxuries or you know,

76
00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 2: this claiming is now coming to court and claiming from

77
00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,440
Speaker 2: other siblings as a luxury items. So it's basic support.

78
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,720
Speaker 2: It it's a claimant going to court saying, you know,

79
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 2: I'm not in the financial means to really take care

80
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 2: of my basic needs, like I cannot support myself on

81
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,960
Speaker 2: a daily basis financially, and you are the only person

82
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:28,440
Speaker 2: now available and we must also understand that this claim

83
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,840
Speaker 2: extends to even deceive their states. So where a claimant

84
00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 2: can put in a claim against a deceased state of

85
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,719
Speaker 2: a person that is a sibling, it's not a parent

86
00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:40,920
Speaker 2: or a grandparent.

87
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,599
Speaker 1: Let me, I just want to unpack so much of

88
00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 1: what you've said there, Nicholine, And we're already getting questions

89
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,719
Speaker 1: in on the WhatsApp line, which I suspected that we might. Okay,

90
00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:57,359
Speaker 1: So if I, as a mother, have a co parent

91
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:03,160
Speaker 1: who is not paying regular maintenance or is not paying

92
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 1: an amount of maintenance that I think is reasonable for

93
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,160
Speaker 1: the upkeep of their child, I make an application and

94
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,560
Speaker 1: go to maintenance court. And whether I'm working or however

95
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,760
Speaker 1: much I may be earning, the fact of the matter

96
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,960
Speaker 1: is that that other parent has a financial responsibility and

97
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 1: we know it's not half. We know the court doesn't say,

98
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,960
Speaker 1: well it's just half. We know that, but that I

99
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: have every right to go and apply and say that.

100
00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,320
Speaker 1: You know that man is the father of this child

101
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,479
Speaker 1: and he he should pay. So when you say not available,

102
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 1: that there's not a parent available and not a grandparent available,

103
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,880
Speaker 1: do you mean financially available or available as in alive,

104
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,720
Speaker 1: Because there's a big difference because again stories that I've

105
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,600
Speaker 1: spoken to parents on the show who say we've gone

106
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,840
Speaker 1: back and forth. He hides money, he says he doesn't

107
00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,599
Speaker 1: have a job. We've been back through the court system.

108
00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 1: He was only told to pay five hundred rand, but

109
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,840
Speaker 1: I know that he earns fifty thousand rounds. All of

110
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,520
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that you could say it's somebody

111
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,680
Speaker 1: making themselves unavailable, but they're actually not. They're very much

112
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 1: They're very much alive and capable and employed. So what

113
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 1: do we mean when we say that there's not a

114
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 1: parent or grandparent available? And similarly with the grandparents as well,

115
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: they might be around, but they might not have financial means.

116
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, that's the that's the first hurdle to get

117
00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,800
Speaker 2: over is for the claimant to actually prove that, you know,

118
00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 2: there's no parents or grandparents available financial means as well

119
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 2: to step in for their claim for maintenance. At the

120
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,440
Speaker 2: end of the day, If the grandparent or the parent

121
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 2: is available, they stand first in line. The maintenance officer then,

122
00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:02,480
Speaker 2: obviously having established their financial means, then has the discretion

123
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,600
Speaker 2: to go to other siblings. But it's not an easy task.

124
00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,600
Speaker 2: They must first prove that the parents and the grandparents

125
00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,520
Speaker 2: doesn't have the financial means even though they are available.

126
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:20,000
Speaker 2: It's all about financial means and affordability. So at the

127
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 2: end of the day, you might have a sibling that's available, yes,

128
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,520
Speaker 2: but they also doesn't have the financial means. So it's

129
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:32,520
Speaker 2: a matter of you know, being the responsible person. Like

130
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,520
Speaker 2: we said in the Maintenance Act, it talks about a

131
00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,120
Speaker 2: person that's legally liable to maintain any other person. So

132
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,800
Speaker 2: you have to be first legally liable, and then we

133
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 2: go to the second portion of it that says exactly

134
00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,280
Speaker 2: that you know, it has to be within your financial

135
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,400
Speaker 2: needs means to do so, and that person must also

136
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,840
Speaker 2: be able to firstly take care of themselves financially before

137
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,960
Speaker 2: it extends to the other sibling.

138
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,160
Speaker 1: Nikolin, help me understand, then, help me understand. You said

139
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,920
Speaker 1: that when if you were if you are then seeking

140
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,880
Speaker 1: a payment from or seeking support from a sibling, you said,

141
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,280
Speaker 1: this is this is for basics, So help me understand

142
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:22,559
Speaker 1: why or what the level of obligation and where in

143
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,880
Speaker 1: law does that level of obligation change from the other

144
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:32,840
Speaker 1: biological parent to the sibling. Because let's say for example,

145
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 1: that again, take me, there's me, I've got a child.

146
00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 1: I let's say, for example, I earn fifty thousand round

147
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,719
Speaker 1: a month, the father earns fifty thousand round a month,

148
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,839
Speaker 1: and there's a child in the middle. Now, regardless of

149
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:51,000
Speaker 1: how well off I am, the father has a responsibility

150
00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 1: to the maintenance is not just based on basics. When

151
00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,480
Speaker 1: it comes to the child, it's the cost of the child.

152
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,120
Speaker 1: So if my child's doing far of extramural activities, has

153
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,680
Speaker 1: a nanny, we have a gardener, we've got the fastest

154
00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 1: level of internet DStv. Those are all the things which

155
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,040
Speaker 1: which includes things that some people might consider beyond the basics.

156
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,200
Speaker 1: Those are all things that the court is going to

157
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,480
Speaker 1: take into account as expenses for the child. That they

158
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 1: take into account in calculating the amount that dad pays.

159
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,480
Speaker 1: Why is that then different if you were applying for

160
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 1: a sibling. What is the line that gets strawn where

161
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,280
Speaker 1: you say, yeah, but the sibling can't be expected to

162
00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,680
Speaker 1: pay for hockey and swimming and you know mccrame.

163
00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now it goes back to the basic expenses At

164
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 2: the end of the day, the court how old an

165
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,840
Speaker 2: inquiry in terms of the Maintenance Act. It firstly, when

166
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,040
Speaker 2: an application is launched and you go through the process

167
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,560
Speaker 2: of being establishing whether you're legally now liable to maintain

168
00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:03,600
Speaker 2: this claimant. Then we go a step further, going to

169
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 2: a financial inquiry looking into the needs of the child

170
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,200
Speaker 2: and then on the other side the affordability. And when

171
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,240
Speaker 2: that financial inquiry is held in court, the magistrate then

172
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:23,440
Speaker 2: has the discretion to take into account all the expenses,

173
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,280
Speaker 2: look then at the whole situation in terms of what

174
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,800
Speaker 2: is the need and what is the affordability, and then

175
00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:37,920
Speaker 2: firstly looking at the basics accommodation, clothing and food and

176
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:43,880
Speaker 2: medical treatment, and then going past that if necessary, so

177
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,520
Speaker 2: it remains the same process even though you might be

178
00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,200
Speaker 2: a sibling. The court first takes into consideration, okay, what

179
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,080
Speaker 2: is your claim You're claiming for basics plus extras or

180
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,320
Speaker 2: what we call luxury and the then the respondent that

181
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 2: the person against whether the application is launched, then gets

182
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,439
Speaker 2: an opportunity to then also prove to court their income,

183
00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,000
Speaker 2: their expenses and their affordability, so they can oppose this

184
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 2: application and say, you know, this person is now claiming

185
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,440
Speaker 2: certain items and I am willing to pay a portion

186
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,080
Speaker 2: thereof which is the basics, or I'm not paying anything

187
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,599
Speaker 2: towards this claim and then the court has a discretion.

188
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,600
Speaker 2: So it really is an application process, going through the

189
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:42,280
Speaker 2: basic needs first, then extended items if necessary, and then

190
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 2: both parties one must prove that they have that need

191
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,679
Speaker 2: and the other must then prove or then it must

192
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,360
Speaker 2: be proved that there's the financial means to meet that

193
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:58,319
Speaker 2: basic need, but it can extend to do luxury items

194
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,560
Speaker 2: depending on the need of the climate and also the affordability.

195
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 1: On the other side, I'm so conflicted on this. On

196
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,280
Speaker 1: the one hand, you know the idea of you know,

197
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 1: the primary the children, the best interests of the child

198
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 1: being the primary focus, and I think that is absolutely right,

199
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,719
Speaker 1: But somebody's just sent in a WhatsApp message and I'm

200
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 1: inclined to agree the same morning, SJ. Please ask Nikoline

201
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 1: what happens where the sibling seeking to be supported is

202
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,880
Speaker 1: someone you don't even know existed. Family secrets are real,

203
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,200
Speaker 1: and it doesn't seem fair to have this placed on

204
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 1: you because of the actions of a parent. And I

205
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 1: agree with that. There are so many There would be

206
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,200
Speaker 1: so many nuances to this. Of course, there could be

207
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:49,080
Speaker 1: situations where you've never even met the child or children

208
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 1: that you are now being asked to support. You may

209
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,720
Speaker 1: not have a great relationship with your sibling whose child

210
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 1: is now seeking support and thinking old and this is

211
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to do with me. Does the court care,

212
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 1: does the does the court care about the nature of

213
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,280
Speaker 1: the relationship that you have, whether you even know this child.

214
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 1: When I think about my family set up, I didn't

215
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,200
Speaker 1: even meet some of my siblings till I was in

216
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,600
Speaker 1: my thirties, I can just imagine, you know, either one

217
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 1: of us has got a knock on the door now

218
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,800
Speaker 1: saying you're required to look at you know, support your

219
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 1: to support your your niece's nephews.

220
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,560
Speaker 2: However it may be yeah, not for sure. We have

221
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,560
Speaker 2: to also remember that there's the legal streshold is very

222
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 2: high for reclaimant to go to court. They must prove firstly,

223
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 2: while the maintenance officer assesses this whole situation, they and

224
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 2: they must prove that this person is legally liable to

225
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,600
Speaker 2: maintain me. Now, there must be a balance between fairness

226
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,600
Speaker 2: and you know, family responsibility at the end of the day,

227
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,120
Speaker 2: so and the court really as a discretion to make

228
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 2: any order that's reasonable and affordable. But it goes back

229
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,040
Speaker 2: to firstly, you going to court and saying, you know,

230
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,280
Speaker 2: I have a claim. This is the reason why I

231
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,200
Speaker 2: have the claim. Sorry, this is the reason why I

232
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,120
Speaker 2: have the claim, and I've got my proof. So it's

233
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 2: it's not just a matter of going to court. And

234
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,280
Speaker 2: we're not only talking about children now, even maintenance at

235
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:24,320
Speaker 2: the maintenance at really goes as far as you know, siblings,

236
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,280
Speaker 2: me claiming from my brother, regardless of whether I'm a

237
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 2: child or not, me even claiming from my brother for

238
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:37,520
Speaker 2: financial support. So any claimant that goes to court saying

239
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,120
Speaker 2: to courte that this person is legally liable to maintain

240
00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,640
Speaker 2: me must first prove that. So it's it's it's not

241
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 2: an easy task. That is why the court doesn't really

242
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 2: view with a lot of these type of poses.

243
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 1: Ask how many in your in your career in that

244
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 1: time that you've been doing this, Nicholan, how many times

245
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 1: times have you seen a successful application either for grandparents

246
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,359
Speaker 1: for maintenance for or for siblings.

247
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,720
Speaker 2: For grand grandparents? Quite a few, you know, I've been

248
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 2: doing this for nearly two decades, and I've also been

249
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 2: on the side where I was the journey supporting the applicant,

250
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 2: going against the not against It sounds grue but you know,

251
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 2: claiming against the grandparents in a lot of situations, these

252
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 2: certain situations where for instance, the parents passed away and

253
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,040
Speaker 2: you sit with the claim where you have to claim

254
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 2: against this gaye. So so against grandparents, there's quite a

255
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 2: few applications, and often those applications features in the maintenance court.

256
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 2: But against siblings it's not as common. But I think

257
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 2: a lot of people and the public in general is

258
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 2: not really in formed that they can in actual fact

259
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,560
Speaker 2: claim against siblings. So I think if the public were

260
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,400
Speaker 2: informed of the fact that they can actually do so,

261
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,960
Speaker 2: they might be arising these type of claims in the

262
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 2: maintenance courts. But usually the maintenance officers they try to

263
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 2: mediate the method amongst the claimants and the respondents, so

264
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:33,800
Speaker 2: it doesn't really always reach the stage where it's necessary

265
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 2: to go after extended family. They try to negotiate with

266
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,600
Speaker 2: a close family because obviously they have to take the

267
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 2: best interest at odd and they've got this claimant now

268
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,199
Speaker 2: coming to court saying I've got this need to be

269
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 2: financially supported, so they firstly will then look at the

270
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,879
Speaker 2: close family then if not, go to extended family. But

271
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,680
Speaker 2: it really doesn't happen that often. I think a lot

272
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,719
Speaker 2: of people it doesn't know that they have this mechanism available,

273
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,879
Speaker 2: but it's really not uncommon.

274
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,159
Speaker 1: Fascinating stuff. Appreciate you clarifying the law for us on this.

275
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 1: Nicoline william Stein is an attorney at William Steine Attorneys,

276
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,879
Speaker 1: so putting giving us the information on this are when

277
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 1: is it that you can claim maintenance from a sibling