1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: O two. Let's walk little. The Money Show with Stephen 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: Curtis is brought to you by ABS, a corporate and 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 1: investment banking, a Pan African bank that's invested in your 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: story because your story matter is eight minutes after six. 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: Good evening to you. Welcome to the program Friday. Of course, 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm Stephen Curtis. Lots going on in a way, a 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: lot of people, of course, just watching what's happening with 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: oil markets. They seem to be relatively benign. Not a 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: great day for gold, unfortunately, but certainly things beginning to move. 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 1: The story probably around what happened at Steinhoff today and 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: the latest jail term being handed down. And this goes 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: down to a fake invoice three hundred and seventy six 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: million rand. It was four such a strange story because 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: it was handwritten. I can't imagine anyone even dare I say, 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: a government department accepting a handwritten invoice, but Steinhoff did. 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: The person who knew who actually handed it in actually 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: said that they kind of have admitted now that they 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: knew it was fake. And was with Marcus used to 20 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: when he suggested and he handed a term on a 21 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: plane flight. Such an extraordinary story. You may remember a 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: little while ago we spoke to Montangle Mining and they're 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: very angry. They wanted to know more information about chair 24 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: trades on the JC. Well, another company called in Plantler 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: Ventures has now gone to the community the Information Regulator 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: and said to the JSE, we want to know more 27 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: information about the people who were involved in trading our shares. 28 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: The JC first said no, so they lodged a PIRE 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: application Promotion of Access to Information Act application. The JSE 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: still said no, And now the Information Regulator is said 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: to the JSE, you can't just say no. What you 32 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: have to do is actually go to the people who 33 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: traded in the shares and tell them that this is 34 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: what in Cluntle Adventures wants and give them a chance 35 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: to sort of oppose it. A part of it gets 36 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: to a conversation around whether the JC is a public 37 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: body or a private entity. And it is sort of 38 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: privately owned its shares or traded on the JC, so 39 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: it's a public company in that way. But I mean, 40 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: I don't see how you could argue that the JC 41 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: is not a sort of public body. Yes, it's not 42 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: linked to government, nor should it be. But the way 43 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: I see it, I mean, and how important it is 44 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: to our economy, it would make sense to me that 45 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: it'd be seen in that way. Anyway, we'll get a 46 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: deeper understanding of it. Some of the technicalities around it 47 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: are quite tricky. We have raised this with the JCCO before, 48 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: but we'll hear from Caroline James from the Amabungani Center 49 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: for Investigative Journalism. And then I don't know where you 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: go out in the evening if you do. And there 51 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: was a time I wondered if joe Berg's nightlife would 52 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: ever come back. Actually because there was the lockdown, there 53 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: was intense load shedding. I remember friends of mine would 54 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: visit from Cape Tom and say, gosh, does anyone in 55 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: joe Burg still go out? Now you can absolutely see 56 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: that that economy has recovered. You really can you go 57 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: out and Friday evening you'll see that that economy's recovered. 58 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: We will speak to Glenn at Stutchbury. He's the operations 59 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: director at Legacy Hotels and Resorts and he also runs 60 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: the Alto two, three four bars at the top of 61 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: the Leonardo, so South Africa's sort of highest restaurant. If 62 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: you like the view and what that does to the drinking, 63 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: the dining experience. I think that's going to be a 64 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: very interesting conversation looking forward to that. Could hear from 65 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: you tonight. So double one, double A three oh seven 66 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: O two two one four four six O five six seven, 67 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: don't forget a little later the Friday Biz Blitz as well, 68 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: and voice notes of course on seven two, seven oh 69 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: two one seven oh two. The Lonely Show with Stephen 70 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: Krudis live on ninety two point seven and one six FM, 71 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: streaming on the Prime Media Plus NAP and DStv channel 72 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: eight five six. Well, there's a fascinating story that's been 73 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: developing over the last couple of days about Iran. So, 74 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: first Iran was confirmed to send ships to take part 75 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: in the war games taking place of Simonstown. Then we 76 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: were told, well, there were several reports indicating that in 77 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: fact Iran had been asked to withdraw, and that that 78 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: the order for them to essentially be asked to withdraw 79 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: by the SANDF, so the ESA ANDDF had to do 80 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: the asking had come from the President to the Defense 81 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: minster Angie Monchecha. Then we saw Iranian ships taking part 82 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: in the exercise that led, as you can imagine, to 83 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: a response from the US embassy here sort of asking 84 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: questions about that. And now the Minister Angie Monchecha has 85 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: instituted what's called in the SA ANDDF a board of inquiry. 86 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: I think they've actually only got a week or so 87 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: to report back. Now there's several questions here. The one 88 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: thing that hasn't happened is that no official has come 89 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: forward and said no Iran was not playing an active role, 90 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: they were just observing. We haven't seen that, and you 91 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: would think that if that was the case, someone would 92 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: have said that by now. So then that raises another question. 93 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: Who would dare defy a presidential instruction when the stakes 94 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: are so high? And let me just be very clear 95 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: about this. You and I live in a country we're 96 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,679 Speaker 1: around forty nine percent. According to Afrobarometer, forty nine percent 97 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: of people believe a military government would be better than 98 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: the democracy we have. Now you can understand why if 99 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: you look at what's happening around around so many people. 100 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: So it is vitally critically important that if it turns 101 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: out that someone in the military did in fact defy 102 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: civilian authority, they need to be dealt with. We cannot 103 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: have a situation where actually people in the military are 104 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: able to defy civilian authority. Just imagine the consequences, and 105 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: imagine what that does to our economy too in the 106 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: longer run, because no one knows who's really in charge. 107 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: It's an absolutely vital thing to get on top of. 108 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: So I'll be paying very close attention to that Board 109 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: of inquiry. Thirteen minutes now after six. 110 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: The Money Show with Stephen kruittz on seven O two 111 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 2: seven O two. 112 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: Were one of the key figures in part of the 113 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: Steinhoff fraud, now being sentenced to five years in jail 114 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: for signing an invoice with three hundred and seventy six 115 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: million round that he knew was fake. Iwan Shelbert was 116 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: given the invoice by Marcus Uster while they were on 117 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: a fly. She then passed it on to the company 118 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: as a legitimate invoice. Rob Rose, as the editor at 119 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: the Currency News and author of Steinhoff, also of course 120 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: behind that show Maximni series. Rob Good evening, what role 121 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: did Ewan Shelbert play in Steinhoff? What did he actually 122 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: do here? 123 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 3: I think Stephen Good to chat he So the real 124 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 3: issue is the three hundred and seventy six million round 125 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 3: invoice which was fictitious, which Marcus Heister had created on 126 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 3: a plane back to South Africa and handed to his 127 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 3: finance director, Ben Heidi and said to him, please, can 128 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 3: you process us and put this money into Steinoff. So 129 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 3: Ben then took the invoice and he passed it through 130 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: Steinhoff's for his ranks, and you know, magically, three hundred 131 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 3: and seventy six million round appeared, as if from nowhere, 132 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: in Steinhoff's accounts through a company called Steinoff at Work. 133 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 3: This transformed a loss making division into a fantastically profitable 134 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 3: instean ultimately led to ultimately led to the retail looking 135 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 3: a lot more profitable. And even Schelbert was a guy 136 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: who made it happen. He was one of the people 137 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 3: to whom Ben Lacrounji had passed the invoice and said, 138 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: can you process this through the books? 139 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it would be bizarre for anyone to take 140 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: a handwritten invoice and just process it through the books. 141 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: Did he just believe Marcus y's see, he must have 142 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: known that it was fake. 143 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 3: Well that's the argument that the prosecutors make. I mean, 144 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 3: what they did say, according to the story from News 145 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: twenty four. From Young at News twenty four is that 146 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 3: essentially that he was ultimately loyal to Marcus Eustan, had 147 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: believed what the executives told him. He was more patsy 148 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,119 Speaker 3: in this particular scheme. But you know, as as you appreciate, Steven, 149 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: I mean, once Marcus Eusta committed suicide, there was nobody 150 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: in hold responsible for this. So ultimately the people down 151 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 3: the line who processed these fake numbers are going to 152 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 3: be held accountable. So the issue is if you get 153 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 3: a three hundred and seventy six million RAN handwritten and 154 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 3: you put it through the box without making further inquiries 155 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 3: about where this comes from, you'll ultimately be held responsible. 156 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 3: The issue whether he himself knew it was fake right 157 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 3: from the outset is a question that I think is 158 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 3: more culpable. You know, it's more negligence than essentially intention 159 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 3: at this particular point. 160 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: Are there any bigger fish than him than he who 161 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: are still alive? 162 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, essentially there's Sian Frobbler, who is the 163 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 3: company's secretary for a while, and he's going to court 164 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: soon to answer charges in the next month. He's probably 165 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 3: the biggest fish left the finance director ben le Frunji, 166 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 3: who we mentioned just now. He's already serving a five 167 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 3: year term for this particular ford. But then the real 168 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 3: people who made this happen for Marcus used to sat 169 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 3: in Europe. They are the ones who ultimately created these 170 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 3: fake in whishes. We're very much in on the scheme 171 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 3: and they're themselves are serving prison sentences but in Germany, 172 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 3: so you know, there are people in prison cells, in 173 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 3: jail cells across the world, just not necessarily in Salar. 174 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 3: So there been three convictions so far in South Africa 175 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: which the Frongi's won and in jail, and Shelbert will 176 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: be the second. 177 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: It's interesting that Shelbert in the end pleaded guilty. He 178 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: presumably didn't have much of a choice. And it still 179 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: took quite a long time. And I've i mean, you 180 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: and I before have discussed the complexity of this case, 181 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: but it's nearly ten years later, you. 182 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: Know, Stephen. It talks to prosecution strategy because this particular case, 183 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 3: when you get a hand written invoice that is just 184 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 3: simply fictitious, would seem to be very obviously, very obvious 185 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 3: to prove. And it's the same with the inside a 186 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 3: trading case where Marcus used to have sent semessis to his 187 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 3: friends and said, please sell the shares because Stint's going 188 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 3: to collapse, and we'll be clear to did collapse. And 189 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 3: now those are those are you know, slam dunk cases. 190 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 3: So the Prosecution Service visit and dalied over like for 191 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 3: a number of years before deciding how to approach it. 192 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 3: Are we going to include every single charge to throw 193 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 3: at these guys or just these particular ones, and and 194 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 3: it took them you know, this happened in twenty seventeen, 195 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: you know, twenty sixteen, it's essentially eight nine years before 196 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 3: this actually came to court and or they could actually 197 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 3: ultimately get on one or two people was the very 198 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 3: obvious stuff they probably could have got in the first year. 199 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 3: So it speaks to a lack of coherence I think 200 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 3: in the Prosecution Service about dealing with these big crimes, 201 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 3: because you're absolutely right, it's could have been done in 202 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: the first year. 203 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: In a strange way, we're now getting towards the end 204 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: of this entire story, very complex, very interesting, staggering in 205 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: the consequences both for Marcus Ejuster and in terms of 206 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 1: the financial losses, but Finally, after a very long time, 207 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: the story seems to be coming to an end. Yeah. 208 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean the company itself has sort of fallen 209 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 3: apart right now. The actual operating entities are still there, Pepcre. 210 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 3: The current pep Core owns part of the assets that 211 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 3: used to be understanding Off. So the actual company itself 212 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 3: is virtually non existence. And the people who are involved 213 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 3: in the forward, well, you know, they're in jail or dead, 214 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 3: and it does feel something of a correctly the fact 215 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 3: that there are people going to jail. When Marcus Yust 216 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 3: himself never sat in a jail cell, you would have 217 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: wanted the guy who constructed this fraud to be in 218 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 3: the dock to say, you know, to answer why, why 219 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 3: did you do this? What caused you to do this? 220 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 3: So it is a bit of an empty victory, but 221 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 3: you know, at least for a country that needed to 222 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 3: prove that it can nail the white collar criminals, at 223 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 3: least people are in jail. 224 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: Rob Rose, thank you so much, such an important point. 225 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: Editor at Currency News, author of Steinheist, The Money Show 226 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: Explainer nineteen. After sexual confirmation, now that the Information Regulator 227 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: is told the JZ it was wrong to refuse to 228 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: give details about some share trades to the firm in 229 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: Plant l Aventures. In Plant Adventures said it believed some 230 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: of the trades might be suspicious. Now the JS is 231 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: to tell all of the people involved in the trades 232 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: that in Plant Aventures wants information about them so they 233 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: can make representations on whether the records can be released. 234 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 1: Caroline James as the advocacy coordinated at the Amabongani Center 235 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: for Investigative Journalism, Caroline Good, evening, What exactly does inflantal 236 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: Adventures actually want here? 237 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 2: Evening, Stephen, thank you very much for having me on. 238 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: I think the key aspect that Inflanta wants to find 239 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 2: out is who made trades during a set period of 240 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 2: time in which a specific company's share price dropped dramatically, 241 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: And they want to understand why that happened, and so 242 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: they want to know who traded that share in that 243 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 2: specific period of time. It was a period of a 244 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: few days in May twenty twenty. 245 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: If I were them in that position, I probably want 246 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: the same want the same information. They're not the only 247 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: one who's been in that position. The JAC refused to 248 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: hand it over. Did they explain why so? 249 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 2: What had happened was Inflanta filed an application under the 250 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: Promotion of Access to Information Act to the JAS for 251 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: this information, and the JAC said that they were bound 252 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 2: by the legislation that governs the JAC, the Financial Markets Act, 253 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 2: which prevents them providing any confidential information to a third party. 254 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: They said that that law meant that they couldn't provide 255 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 2: the information and refuse the application, and that was when 256 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: in Plantla then went to the Information Regulator, which is 257 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 2: this new body where you can file a complaint if 258 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 2: you believe that a request under the Promotion of Access 259 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 2: to Information Act has been incorrectly decided. 260 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: The jc's attitude seems to be not just in this 261 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: case but in others, that this information is confidential. But 262 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: in the end, you have a shared register, you have 263 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: to kind of know who owns a company, and it 264 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: would seem rational that a company should also know who 265 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: owns them. On balance, and I realized that you and 266 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: I are both journalists, so we want as much information 267 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: as possible, and there are other ways to see the world. 268 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: But I can't help but feel that in the end, 269 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: a company should have the right to know what's going 270 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: on with their shares. 271 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: I completely agree and I think the important thing is 272 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: that the JC plays an important regulatory function. It's got 273 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: a public function in South Africa. We all know that 274 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: these are of publicly traded shares, and as you say, 275 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: there is some information that is made publicly accessible, and 276 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: there's a good reason for that. As you say, companies 277 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: do need to know and people need to know who's 278 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 2: got shares in different companies, And this really is just 279 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 2: the sort of extension of that principle to understand what 280 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: is happening behind the scenes, they be you know, breaching 281 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 2: the sort of corporate veil about what's going on amongst 282 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 2: all these sort of share trading that companies and brokers 283 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 2: and individuals do. 284 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: The people who actually traded the shares, as I understand, 285 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: now have to be contacted by the JAC, and that 286 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: could actually be quite a quite a process. They have 287 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: to give representations. I presume they could now say to 288 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: the JAC, no, don't hand over this information. Yeah. 289 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: I think that's a very important aspect of this finding 290 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: from the Information Regulator. So although they found that they 291 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: would order that the information should be disclosed by the JAC, 292 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: they said that the JC hadn't adhered to its legal 293 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: obligations that when their receiver request, you have to notify 294 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: any third party who may be implicated by the request. 295 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: But the important aspect of that is that the party 296 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 2: who's received the request and has to notify these third 297 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: parties doesn't have to get consent from those third parties. 298 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: So all you have to do is here the representations. 299 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: So you're completely correct, and it's probably likely that any 300 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 2: third party will say they don't consent to that information 301 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: being disclosed, but that's not the be all and end all. 302 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: That's just the representations that they would make to the 303 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: JAS or. In this situation, the Information Regulator has a 304 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 2: role to play in it. But the question is that 305 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: these sorts of bodies receiving these information have to consider 306 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: both sides. So they have to consider the request made 307 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: for access to information and then to consider what the 308 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 2: third parties involved may say, whether or not they would 309 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: consent or not. That's not the sort of crux of 310 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: the decision that has to be made. 311 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of what a legitimate reason might 312 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: be for Stephen to say, I'm buying Trey, I'm buying 313 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: shares and Carol Lines Company. But I don't want Caroline 314 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: to know that I mean, I'm sure someone somewhere will 315 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: have a legitimate reason that I haven't thought of, but 316 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: I can't think of one. 317 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean I think, as you said, we 318 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 2: are sort of believe in transparency and the importance behind 319 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: transparency and push for that. So for us, that does 320 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: make perfect sense for us to be able to have 321 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 2: all this information and for you know, for someone who 322 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: might be also invested in my company to understand whether 323 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: you have bought shares or not and when you have. 324 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: You know, I think we definitely are on the same 325 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: page around that, and certainly I'm a Bongani. We're pushing 326 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 2: for much greater corporate transparency across the board. 327 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: The Montango Mining case, which I know your colleagues have 328 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: reported on in the past, it's a very complex case. 329 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: The accusations that Montango Mining make haven't all been properly 330 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: sort of supported. But I presume what happens here could 331 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: set a president for that and then for other cases too. 332 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: This won't be the last, No, you. 333 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 2: Won't be and I think that's why the JC has 334 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: indicated that they are likely to take this decision from 335 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: the Information Regulator on review to the High Court. I 336 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 2: think they believe that this is an issue that needs 337 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 2: to be ventilated in judicial proceedings. They see it as 338 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 2: an important transparency and corporate corporate transparency case. We obviously 339 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 2: believe and agree with the Information regulators findings that these 340 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 2: trade information should be transparent and made public when it's 341 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 2: been requested for. But I think you're certainly right this 342 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: is a case that can definitely set precedent, and we 343 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 2: may very well see the JC approaching court to try 344 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 2: and get a firm judicial precedent on this issue. 345 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, if the top of my head how 346 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: much information a company listed in London or New York 347 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: would get about share trading in their short shares. I 348 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: don't know if you've done any research on that. 349 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: This certainly is not my specific area of expertise, But 350 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 2: I think the important thing is that we have to 351 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 2: maintain that we are governed by the constitutional regime of 352 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 2: the South African Constitution, and many courts have highlighted that 353 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 2: the reason we have such a strong protection of transparency 354 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 2: and access to information in our constitution is because of 355 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: the very opaque system of governance, both politically and in 356 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: business that was sort of really in place during the 357 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 2: apartheies regime, and we have to recognize that there's a 358 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: specific history and a specific constitutional regime that governs our 359 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 2: laws around transparency. 360 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: Caroline James, thank you so much. The advocacy coordinated the 361 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: Amabongani Center for Investigative Journalism. Can you think of a 362 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: reason why a company should not be told who owns 363 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: their shares or who've traded in their shares at a 364 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: particular time. There might be a technical reason that I'm 365 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: not aware of, some kind of trading advantage seven two 366 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: seven two one seven oh two Police twenty six minutes 367 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: after six The Money Show. Ver Lakamguni is the chief 368 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: investment officer be Guerlo Global Fund Managers. Lucky Good Evening 369 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: avenged down five point eight eight percent on the day 370 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: their CEO's resigned, and he's only been there for two years, 371 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: and it's a company that does seem to be in 372 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: a tight spot. 373 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe you this, Steve. I think one thing 374 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 4: is that we may be underestimated the challenge of operating 375 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 4: that construction company. I think you was tired, and I 376 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 4: think they said he's retiring, But it's been quite a 377 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 4: challenge in that sector. Across the board. I mean you'd 378 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 4: remember that the Desert Reed and Marion Robert they've filed 379 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 4: for business rescue. So it's been a difficult sector to 380 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 4: operate in. Low governments expend each their construction mafias have 381 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 4: also played a role, so it is putting avenge. Maybe 382 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 4: it's an opportunity to do reset, but it's it's a 383 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 4: challenging environment overall. 384 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 1: And I mean the fact that they went to Australia, 385 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: you would have thought, I mean, so many companies have 386 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: done that and it's been so difficult. 387 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 4: It has been difficult, and I think one of the 388 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 4: things that they had in Australia was all these litigations 389 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 4: around the expansion of the mandate when they were given 390 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 4: contact and not delivering one time. So those things have 391 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 4: equally eating into their liquidity in that market. But that 392 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 4: is why we also saw Wilson Bailey actually cutting out 393 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 4: the liquidity supplied to their business in Oslia prob Built. 394 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 4: I think it's three years ago. So there is an 395 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 4: element of discipline that's required to operate in that market, 396 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 4: and also the complexity of the projects that you take 397 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 4: can play a role, and I think out of desperation, 398 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 4: combers like this, they avenge they've basically pivoted way too 399 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 4: much into more complicated projects and that has caused them 400 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 4: to some extent. 401 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: The rand seems to be set to have another week 402 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: of gains. It seems to be sort of consistently stronger. Probably. 403 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: You know, if you'd asked me at the end of 404 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: last year where would it be now, I wouldn't have 405 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: guessed it would be as strong as it is now. 406 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: And it seems to seems to be very stable. 407 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 4: No, it is. Indeed, I think if I look back 408 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 4: about a year ago, we were sitting eighteen fifty two 409 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 4: and we were sitting at sixteen forty three. So that 410 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 4: are the massive gains I mean for the rent by 411 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 4: historic standards. So I think the monetary policy inflation targeting 412 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 4: has helped to some extent, but the political stability has 413 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 4: also helped, and I think the credit rating improvement has helped. 414 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 4: The fat F gray listing has also helped. So the 415 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 4: commodity prices are playing a good role because we are 416 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 4: exporting a lot of gold and platinum, and we sell 417 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 4: the dollars that we end and buy the rents again 418 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 4: to convert to local so that has also been quite beneficial. 419 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 4: And I think the dollar itself has had been has 420 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 4: been generally weaker in the last twelve months. 421 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: And I mean, if you think about it, we have 422 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of growth this year, say we get 423 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: to two percent next year, and we end up in 424 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: a situation where the dollar continues what it's doing, there 425 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: might be some scope for even more growth for the rant, 426 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: even more strengthening. 427 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 4: No, certainly, I think we should hold up between sixteen 428 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 4: and seventeen at at least, and if our growth comes 429 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 4: through strongly, I think it would help us to get 430 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 4: even below sixteen. But we've got a base case of 431 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 4: around sixteen to seventeen. And I think the main thing 432 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 4: is that the fiscal management has been very good, the 433 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 4: monetary policy has been good, and the political stability seems 434 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 4: to be driving some reforms that have let in the 435 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 4: transport sector. And we are seeing a bit of stability 436 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 4: and that is positive at a time when the US 437 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 4: is facing some headwinds around the geopolitics. So it is 438 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 4: beneficial to us and we could even see an even 439 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 4: better end. 440 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: Luck. Thanks so much. Luck. I'm Gunne is the chief 441 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: investment office Benguela Global Fund Managers. Bringing the time to sexperty. 442 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: What's up Stephen seven O two one two twenty two 443 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: minutes to seventh time. In a moment, we'll speak to 444 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: Glenn Stutchbury, the operations director at Legacy Hotels and Resorts, 445 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 1: about also two three four at the Leer Nardo. It's 446 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: a rooftop bar. But more than that, really, I suppose 447 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: I should say, news late last night that high prop 448 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: Property company had said that a proposed sale of the 449 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: Hyde Park Corner shopping center that sin Cherberg was not 450 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: going to go through. The potential seller had not met 451 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: any had not met all of the conditions. Interesting to 452 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: just sort of think about what's happening with some of 453 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: the sort of high profile, kind of upper market sort 454 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: of shopping centers. Does seem that one or two of 455 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: them are battling a little bit, but there are also 456 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: signs of recovery. So Hyde Park, they say, is doing 457 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: quite well. Their vacancies are down, they've improved the tenant mix. 458 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what that means for the people who've left, 459 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: but it certainly means something. I was also and I 460 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: remember speaking to Sean Summers about this, about the fact 461 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,479 Speaker 1: that that they can pay was giving up its long 462 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: term lease at Hyde Park. They've been replaced by Checkers. 463 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: Some things in life are inevitable, and I think that 464 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: was one of them. I've also, of course heard recently 465 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: that four Ways Mall has been recovering. That's had a 466 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: rough time, but it does seem slowly to be improving. 467 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: How are you feeling about your shopping malls at the moment? 468 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: Those seven two seven O two one seven, twenty minutes 469 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: to seven, The Money Show, the Friday File, the Friday 470 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: File seventeen minutes to seven, And as I turned my 471 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: head to the left in the Santin area of joe Burg, 472 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: I can just see shining through kind of another building, 473 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: the last embers of the sun still going to be 474 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: up for a little while. There are some sunsets in 475 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: joe Burg, especially when you've sort of had a little 476 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: bit of rain, where the sun actually where the sky 477 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: turns almost pink, well very much pink. And if you 478 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: look out over joe Burg, you'll see thousands of trees. 479 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: And there are some businesses that of course want to 480 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: take advantage of that. One of them is called the 481 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: Alto two three four bar. It's on top of the 482 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: Leonardo Hotel in Santa It describes itself as Africa's highest bar. 483 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: I'm not going to argue with them on that. And 484 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: the person who runs it is sitting in front of 485 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: me now. His name is Glynn Stutchbury is the operations 486 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: manager at Legacy Hotels and Results. Glynn, thanks so much 487 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: for coming in your pleasures, Steven, thanks very much for 488 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: having me. There must be something about height, about the 489 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: view in front of you that makes the experience of 490 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: going to that bar very different from going to many 491 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: other places. 492 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 5: I think it's the whole feeling of being on top 493 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 5: of the world at the end of the day. The 494 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 5: great thing about being on auto is you watching aeroplanes 495 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 5: almost fly underneath you as they come into oh Artie. 496 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 5: That kind of experience, and the reality is the whole 497 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 5: of Joeburg is all around. 498 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: You and you can actually walk around. There's a three 499 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty view, so all three sixty. If you 500 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: don't like the view in one place or it reminds 501 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: you of where you used to live or something, you 502 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: can go and look at something else. Yeah. Yeah. 503 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 5: A lot of people, as soon as they get up, 504 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 5: their first reaction is Okay, where's my heart? Yeah, And 505 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 5: there's that that touring around the building. But yeah, there's 506 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 5: there's obviously the favorites, and the sunset deck is remarkable. 507 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 5: So this time of day that'll be pretty crowded with 508 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 5: people wanting to experience that the ultimate sunset. 509 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: Was it difficult to get it up there? I mean, 510 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: you know, you've got to obviously there are lots of 511 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: buildings in jobiks of them will be taller than yours. 512 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: I suppose not many, but the idea of actually running 513 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: it like that, you've got to have lifts and things 514 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: that work. And I remember as a kid going to 515 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: the Colton Center and being quite scared. 516 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 5: Actually, yeah, it's it's it's a remarkable building in that 517 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 5: respect because there's there's fourteen elevators in the building and 518 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 5: only one of them will get you to alto and 519 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 5: that one gets you to the top. It was great fun. 520 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 5: In fact, last month we had the over six thousand 521 00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 5: steps to get to the top of the building and 522 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 5: we had the firefighters race to the top of the building. 523 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 5: And I mean that these guys running up that building 524 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 5: with twenty five killers of kit She was remarkable. 525 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: The type of business that you do, you obviously want 526 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: to attract a certain cleantel. You want to attract people 527 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: who have other options. You want to attract people who 528 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: are interested in drinking certain things your product range. You 529 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: can't just give them normal plunk. You can't give them, 530 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, a fizzy wine. You've got to give them 531 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: something quite special in terms of attracting them there. 532 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 5: Sure you don't go all the way to that kind 533 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 5: of environment and like you say, have normal plunk. 534 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: We have a great partnership. 535 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 5: Our drink of choice at the top is Mote and 536 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 5: we happen to have the only vending machine for distributing 537 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 5: minis on the roof and that was a whole part 538 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 5: of our experience of making sure that you had little 539 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 5: different things to do at the top. 540 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: I mean when people get to the top, they look around, 541 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: do they eventually stop looking at the view and sort 542 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: of get down to, you know, focusing more on the bar. 543 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: I mean the bar has to be as it has 544 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: to look as nice as the view. 545 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 5: Yes, I think you know the fact what we made 546 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 5: important up there is that everyone would have a seat, 547 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 5: everyone could have an experience and it wasn't just a 548 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 5: sit at a bar and have a drink. There's a 549 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 5: great topest menu up there. Obviously it features the right 550 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 5: product like oysters and salmon and tuna, a wag you 551 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 5: slider rather than a standard slider, et cetera. So those 552 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 5: products make make for great, great value. Add to the 553 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 5: experience of just being on the roof and seeing joe Burg. 554 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 5: We forget how awesome joe Burg is. And I think 555 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 5: one of the amazing things we see is how many 556 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 5: Joeberg people now use Leonardo as their go to. I'm 557 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 5: going to Alter because I need to show people who 558 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 5: visiting me our city, because where else do you go 559 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 5: to show off Joebog. 560 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, such an interesting point. Do you get very 561 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: different type of business in different seasons. So in winter 562 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: the sun can go down by five thirty, it can 563 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: be quite chilly, especially at altitude. There's a bit of 564 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: wind up there too. In summer, I mean you probably 565 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: go until past seven o'clock, Oh for sure. 566 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 5: We sort of run it on three viewing times, so 567 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 5: you've got the afternoon, the sunset, and the night lights 568 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 5: and even the remarkable The best thing about being at 569 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 5: Alto is to go for sunset and then watch Joeburg 570 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 5: turn from sunset into night and just see the lights 571 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 5: of Joeburg It is just remarkable. So there are these 572 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 5: three sessions, and people enjoy all of them, but you 573 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 5: can choose which one. In winter it is now actually sunset, 574 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 5: and then probably down to Aurum to have a nice 575 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 5: meal because that's a little bit warmer. It does get 576 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 5: chilly up there, but we've got fireplaces up there, we've 577 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 5: got heaters, we've got Mode blankets, and you know champagne 578 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 5: does warm you. 579 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: Well, I was going to say, I mean a Mode 580 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: blanket meant something else to me when I was just thinking, 581 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: you know, you're talking about watching the lights come on 582 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: and thinking, gosh, watching that during load shedding must have 583 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: been a very depressing thing. 584 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 5: We could definitely tell who had load shedding, yes, and 585 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 5: you could have found us, and we could have told you. 586 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: Did load shedding hurt your business? And let me just explain, 587 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure you have all of the twenty four hour 588 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: power kiting, all the rest. That's not what I'm asking. 589 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure the lift works, which is that I got 590 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: a sense that during load shedding, and especially coming out 591 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: of the pandemic, people didn't really want to go out 592 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: so much in joe Burg in particular, and friends from 593 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: Cape Town actually come up and say, gosh, people don't 594 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: go out in Joeburg anymore. But now I really get 595 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: a very different sense. I get a sense that the 596 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: nightlife is back. Last year, I was driving towards the 597 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: G twenty at about two thirty in the morning, and 598 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: I mean there were traffic jams in Rosebank. We all 599 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: know which company we can blame for that at two 600 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: thirty on a Saturday morning. Sure, yes, what's that experience 601 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: been like for you? 602 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 5: There was a remarkable shift for us because the post 603 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 5: COVID period for the hospitality sector was a desperate measure 604 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 5: by us to try and get back into the world. Yeah, 605 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 5: because we'd been so decimated. I guess certain people fell 606 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 5: on the right side of the COVID fence and hospitality didn't. Yeah, 607 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,719 Speaker 5: but it was great because people then came back almost 608 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 5: with a vengeance. You know, we are really tired of 609 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 5: being locked up and it's time for us to get out, 610 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 5: and it's time for us to enjoy ourselves. And that 611 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 5: gave us an opportunity for this. We did open Leonardo 612 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 5: two weeks before COVID, so yes, you know, ALTA didn't 613 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 5: have an opportunity to show its glory. Shall we say so, 614 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,479 Speaker 5: we showed it off post COVID and the markets enjoyed 615 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 5: it and they love it, you know, whether it be 616 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 5: a corporate event where you block the whole thing or 617 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 5: the one thing that's funny is the amount of people 618 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 5: who get. 619 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: Engaged up there. Yeah, it's it's the ultimate. 620 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 5: Okay, listen, I can tick this off. And bankruet I 621 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 5: got engaged at the highest par in Africa and she said, yes. 622 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: She had no choice. But people love an effort. I 623 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: mean years ago, I was living in London and a 624 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: friend of mine actually workers is partner, very early and 625 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: put her on the on the euro Tunnel, you know, 626 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: on the train to Paris, and as the sun came up, 627 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: proposed to her. He said to me a week later 628 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: that all the women he told the story too went 629 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: and all the many told the story to hated him 630 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: because he really raised the bar. And I think maybe 631 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: Elsa is doing the same thing. Yeah. 632 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 5: I think the worst would be if you go to 633 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 5: that kind of effort, because we have a private deck 634 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 5: for it. 635 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: We have the US or something. 636 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 5: Yes, the whole number and the mini Moe is coming 637 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 5: out of the vending machine. And you really want to 638 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 5: be sure because that's not the place to have it. 639 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: No, yeah, well you'd remember that a little clark, she said, No, yeah, 640 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: not everybody drinks champagne. I'm one of them. I'll have 641 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: a glass, but I won't up more than that. Have 642 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: you noticed any trends, I mean, it seems to me 643 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: and Joe Berg there are quite a few places that 644 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: specialize in having certain types of sort of spec what 645 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: I would call a specialty look at I would say 646 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: certain whiskeys that they must have a big collection, maybe bourbons, 647 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: things like that. I presume you do the same thing. 648 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, we'd I think people there's always a part of 649 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 5: the party that is the designated driver. 650 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 651 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 5: So certainly the non alcoholics are taking off, and you know, 652 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 5: you really see that where people are one person's always 653 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 5: on the non alcoholics. Yes, Scotch is a big thing 654 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 5: up there for us, and it is the kind of 655 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 5: place that says, I need a cocktail. 656 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, of course. 657 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 5: So you know, cocktails come in, whether they alcoholic or 658 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 5: non alcoholic. It's a great opportunity for us to experiment 659 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:34,479 Speaker 5: up there. 660 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: Have you noticed any trends or changes in what people drink? 661 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: I mean, do you have a year where this particular 662 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: brand of something Away or something else is very popular. 663 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: In the next year, something else sort of takes its place. 664 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 5: Yes, I think it's constantly moving, and strangely enough, if 665 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 5: you look at the Joeberg drinking market in terms of 666 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:02,240 Speaker 5: clubs and lounges, etc. A lot of it was about 667 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 5: around entrepreneurs and the show. Thankfully we've kind of passed 668 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 5: that stage and now people are actually drinking what they 669 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 5: like to drink. There is a there's still a very 670 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 5: definite move towards some of the slightly showy items. You 671 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 5: want to verve, you want to mow it, you want 672 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 5: a dom, especially up on the roof. The other kind 673 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 5: of move is towards Hennessy's and Don Julio's and use 674 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 5: it having a bottle service and a whole round for 675 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 5: you and your friends. 676 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,959 Speaker 1: That also moves nicely. Now I have plans tonight. Oh well, 677 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: Glenn such thanks very much, indeed, thanks for coming, and 678 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: I really do appreciate it. The operations director at Legacy 679 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: Hotels and Results talking tonight about Alto two three four 680 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: at the Leonardo. It's a fascinating idea, and I can't 681 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: help but feel that there might be a little competition 682 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: for it at some point in the future. Six minutes 683 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: now to seven taking your calls on oh one one 684 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: eight three O seven two Time now for the Friday 685 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: BIS Blitz. You know how it works, of course, we 686 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,879 Speaker 1: put out a question. You phone us on O double 687 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: one double A three seven oh two O two one 688 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: four four six oh five six seven. If you get 689 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: the answer right, we move on to the next question. 690 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: If you get it wrong, we move on to the 691 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: next caller. So first question tonight on the Friday Bus Blitz. 692 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: Which company announced it will close its only cigarette manufacturing 693 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: plant in South Africa by the end of twenty twenty six. 694 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: First question tonight on the Friday BIS Blitz, O double 695 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: one double A three oh seven oh two two one 696 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: four four six O five six seven. Which company announced 697 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: it will close its only cigarette manufacturing plant in South 698 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: Africa by the end of twenty twenty six. The Money 699 00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: Show with Stephen Crotis has brought to you by abscle 700 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: and Investment Banking U Pan African Bank that's invested in 701 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: your story because your story matters. First question tonight on 702 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: the Friday Blitz. Which company announced it will close its 703 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: only cigarette manufacturing plant in South Africa by the end 704 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty six. Kotzo in Naledi Rottzo, Hi, do 705 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: you know the answer? 706 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 3: Ah, yes, absolutely, go for it. 707 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: It's British American tobacco. Rotto. Of course you are correct. Okay, 708 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,720 Speaker 1: here we go. Second question, which South African financial leader 709 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: publicly joined global Central bank governors in defending the independence 710 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: of the US Federal Reserve and its Chajerown Power, who 711 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: from South Africa spoke out cotto, yea puss puss ah 712 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: hot So, I can't let you pass. I can let 713 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: you take a guess, but we can't pass. Oh Hotte, 714 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to move on. Sorry, hot So you're 715 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: gonna kick yourself all right? Second question on the Friday business, 716 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,919 Speaker 1: which South African financial leader publicly joined global central bank 717 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: governors in defending the independence of the US Federal Reserve 718 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: and its chair. Jerome Power, who from South Africa was 719 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: speaking out about that and signed a joint statement this 720 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: week with central bank governors. Who was it double one 721 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: doua A threeh seven two and two one four for 722 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: six oh five sixty seven. We have questions also about 723 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: rare earths. We have questions about football and we have 724 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: questions about the Grammy Awards tonight, but first we have 725 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,280 Speaker 1: to get past the son I'm afraid question two tonight, 726 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: which financial leader from South Africa joined Global Central Bank 727 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: governors and defending the independence of the US Federal Reserve 728 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: and its chair Jerome Pile, if you've been listening to 729 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: the Money Show, been paying any attention at all to 730 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: think events in the world, well, I'd like to think 731 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: that you would know maybe just feeling a little bit 732 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: nervous about coming on. It would be very kind, I promise. 733 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: But oh, double one, double a three oh seven O 734 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,240 Speaker 1: two and two one four four six, five six seven. 735 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: Which South African joined Global Central Bank governors in defending 736 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: the independence of the US Federal Reserve is our current 737 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: question on the Friday biz Blitz. And obviously, of course 738 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: it's been a very interesting story Rubby and jannisburg Hi. 739 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 2: Is it cognuc I will find it. 740 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 4: Con conyer the nast upon nat. 741 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: I kind of feel that we can probably give it 742 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: to you because I think I don't ak you, and 743 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: getting a bit of pushback on that, I don't know 744 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 1: if we can, Sorry, Rubbi, okay, and I've been overruled 745 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: on that, so no, overruled quite looking at the person 746 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,879 Speaker 1: who overruled me overrulled quite sauriously on that. Let's see 747 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: if someone else can get the answer right. Who was 748 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: it who joined central bank governors and defending the independence 749 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,000 Speaker 1: of the US federal reserves? Not that hard a question, 750 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: I would have thought. I think you've been paying attention. 751 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 2: Hi, Hi, it is. 752 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: Congratulations you've won the Friday Visit Blitz tonight on the 753 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: Money Show. It's just gone seven o'clock.