1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: You know, we get those stories that seem to just 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: not move at all. And I certainly recall conversation after conversation, 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: and it went on for a while where we were 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: talking about the really parlous state of the how to 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: be as word Dam covered in Hyacinths affecting the fish 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: and marine that or not marine because it's not the 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: sea the water life beneath it, and yeah, and obviously 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: interfering in many ways with water supply in that part 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: of the Northwest. However, it seems to me from what 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: we've heard, that there is actually something of a solution. 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: A story published recently i'll just give you the exact date, 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: twenty sixth of March on the Times Live site says 13 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: that Hyacinth's coverage on how to be as Word Dam 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: is now at less than ten percent. Many many things, 15 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure had to be done to make sure that 16 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: this problem was resolved. So let's hear about this and 17 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: welcome to seven zero two Drive. Annette Muir, whose chief 18 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: director for Water Use Compliance, Monitoring and Enforcement ms BELL. 19 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: Welcome and thanks very much for your time. It's really 20 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: great to take a long running problem and actually be 21 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: able to report that the problems being solved well with it. 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: Was there a turning point or were there many turning points? 23 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: I think we just need to be appreciative that there's 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 2: a tame to same coverage, but also acknowledging that the 25 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: plants have been on the dam for a quite number 26 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: of years. So unfortunately, though the majors we are doing 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: is keeping the coverage low, we're still sitting with a 28 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: seed bank in the dam that will germinate next year 29 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: and the year thereafter, and every time we just need 30 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: to make sure that it doesn't keep flowering. And that's 31 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: what are you dealing with. The biological controls, the insects 32 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 2: that has been imported specifically for these plants to prevent 33 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 2: them from flowering, so that will address the hyacinths. And 34 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: then obviously we are working on the upstream catchment to 35 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: improve the water quality that's coming into the dam. So 36 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: it's a big attachment area that we have to sort out. So, yes, 37 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: the problems are on the dam specifically, but the water 38 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: quality and everything that contributes to it also needs to 39 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 2: be addressed. 40 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, I don't want to say 41 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: problems solved, and you're making it very very clear that 42 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: it isn't, and that's good to have that perspective. But 43 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: what if you and colleagues learned from the efforts to 44 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: deal with this, because many things have been tried. I 45 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: think there was a time when people felt quite bleak 46 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: about the dam being restored to the state that everybody 47 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,839 Speaker 1: wanted an end. But are their lessons learned that might 48 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: help you in dealing with the upstream problem that you've 49 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: just decided. 50 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: I think their first lesson is that these plants are 51 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 2: from another country. We don't have them naturally occurring here. 52 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 2: Any plant that occurs naturally here has got a predator. 53 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: It's just how the ecosystem works. So through Rose University, 54 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: they have done extensive research to find the specific insects 55 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 2: that takes these plants out or minimizes them. And I 56 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: must say the community around them has been exceptional. That 57 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: they've put up rearing stations to help grow these insects, 58 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: and then with the intervention from Rose University, they time 59 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: the release of these insects perfectly to be able to 60 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: be able to say that we have ten percent. We 61 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: also obviously harvesting some of these plants, probably not nearly 62 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: as much as we should or could but that is 63 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: where the labor costs and everything makes it very expensive, 64 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: is to remove these plants because you can't transport them. 65 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: There's very minimal use for them, especially there's biological control 66 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: on them. So I think that's the lessons is that 67 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: make King at the community involvement because we can't do 68 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 2: it by ourselves and they're specialists that that can help 69 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: assist in the water quality. We've also installed a nanobubbler 70 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: on the dam itself to help trap the phosphates coming 71 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: into the catchment from the whitewater treatment works. Yeah. 72 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: So we've got one of our listeners, Glendo, who says 73 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: expresses the concern that the hyacinth is being sprayed and 74 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: that this could be killing the fish because the spray 75 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: is detrimental to fish life. I mean, what is your 76 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: response to that. I know, whenever there are chemicals involved 77 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: in any kind of solution, people get nervous. 78 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we do not spray anything on our water resources 79 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: or the only time we've ever applied was for the 80 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: vulbarage and that was because of that extensive invasion that 81 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: were that we had there. The problem with spraying is 82 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: that those plants then die on mat yes and then 83 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: that decomposition friends on blue green algae, which is also 84 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: hazardous to people. So if I can express my concern 85 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: to the community is that there's a lot of people 86 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: that are pushing for spraying, that the insects is not 87 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 2: working fast enough. But the drama and the consequences of 88 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: spraying is far extensive, some more extensive than what we 89 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: have with the biological control, which is much more natural. 90 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: We don't know what is If there is being sprayed, 91 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: it's not us and we are not then uh familiar 92 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: with what is being sprayed. So there has been some 93 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: rumors about that, but it's definitely not the department that 94 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: is spraying. And as far as we know, every time 95 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 2: we've gone to inspect and we see dyeing plants, we 96 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 2: can also find the meglomelis the khaiki that goes with 97 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: the plant. 98 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: Yes, so I want to go back to where you started, 99 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: miss Muir and ask you this. I mean upstream problems 100 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: that have gone really nothing to do with the work 101 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: that you do, but everything to do with the work 102 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: that you now are required to do because of the 103 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: consequences of upstream pollution. Where are we on that, because 104 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: obviously other departments I would imagine need to get involved. 105 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: Other enforcement bodies need to act if they possibly can. 106 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: Do you have a sense of the upstream situation getting 107 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: better or we're a long way from that, all right? 108 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: So my other hat is enforcement. We have got several 109 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: criminal cases against some of the metropolitan municipalities and at 110 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: upstream catchment. But recognize that it's Mohally City that's discharging 111 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 2: into that catchment, it's schuy of Johannes's, the City of Ekrolinia, 112 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: entity of Yeah, the three metros, yeah, I mean, and 113 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 2: it's all the other land uses around so it's not 114 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,039 Speaker 2: just why sewater. So with all of those, we we 115 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 2: just launched our green Drop reports the status of Infrastructure 116 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: of wastewater in how thing. Unfortunately it is declining, so 117 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: for that we are taking compliance and enforcement measures. Partnering 118 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: with National Treasury. There's the performance grant for the Metro 119 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 2: Trading Services Reform, which we see a move for our 120 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: metropolitan municipalities through ring fencing and focusing their infrastructure or 121 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: their budgets on maintenance and infrastructure. So that should see 122 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: us gradually recovering from the water quality. In terms of 123 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: the industrial uses we've had several interventions with compliance and 124 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: enforcement where we've we've got chrome washing plants jumping up 125 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: all over the place. So we've taken action and joint 126 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: operations with environmental affees on that as well, and we 127 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: see a lot of it aver it was, and the 128 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: discharge industries or the waste industries are actually improving their 129 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 2: systems because of our compliance and enforcement activities. 130 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: In terms of compliance and inforcement. A final question then 131 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: this world. I mean, obviously you'd like to take a 132 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: byte into the leg of the people who are doing 133 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: this thing. How sharp are the teeth available to you? 134 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 2: The teeth are shop but they are slow even when 135 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: bites a slow bite. Yes, even when we do criminal 136 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: prosecution or not. We don't do the prosecution MPa does. 137 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: But when we lay a criminal charge and we investigate 138 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: it with our environmental inspectors, it takes three to five 139 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 2: years before it gets in front of a judge. 140 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: Goodness, and that. 141 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: Doesn't put the infrastructure back. So doing enforcement by its 142 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: off is not going to do the trick. And I 143 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: think that is also part of what we are ordering 144 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: today is to say how do we support, how do 145 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: we regulate, how do we push you know, from all 146 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: angles to address the performance, but VI peer enforcement is 147 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: not going to do it. But we are amending our 148 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: Water Services Amendment bull to introduce personal liability for our 149 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 2: municipal managers and for any company director, but even as 150 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: a private institution or a director in a public municipality. 151 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: Our amendment bill will now include personal liability so that 152 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 2: we don't have people hiding behind the corporate veil of 153 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: a municipal, municipality or farmer company. Thanks so shoppening our tiefs. 154 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: Good good luck with that. Let's hope you can get 155 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: to court a little quicker. Three to five years sounds 156 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: like very much trying to do something long after the 157 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: damage has been done. And Netmere is Chief Director for 158 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: Water Use Compliance, Monitoring and Enforcement, joining us from the 159 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: Department of Water and Sanitation.