WEBVTT - TOPIC: Can a Narcissist Really Change? 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:01.720 The next conversation is a really important one. 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:06.000 We're talking about where the narcissists can really change. And 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:10.440 we live in such an unforgiving society. We are people that, 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:14.120 you know, we've got standards for everyone but ourselves. Sometimes 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.319 and you think you can change and you can be 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:19.760 a better person and stop whatever you're doing, because we're 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.520 all flawed, we all have issues. But for some. 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.960 Reason, you don't think the next person can change. The 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:27.560 next person. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.360 Oh, they've gone too far. There's not coming back for them. 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.000 You know, he's a narcissist. Okay, he'll never be okay, 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.040 you know, I mean, I don't even know if people 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.919 use narcissism with women, right, it's very seldom. We year 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.680 people here. We hear people saying a woman is a narcissist. 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:44.680 You hear it now and again. But I think it's 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.160 used a lot to describe men. And that's a conversation 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.000 we're gonna be having now with Carrie Redman. And you 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.080 excuse me, you're a feedback specialist and founder of Brain 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.520 Harmonics in South Africa. 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.080 Carrie, good evening and welcome to the show. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.240 Haafy, thank you so much for having me. 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.600 You know, I mean in our intro and in the 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:07.880 conversation that we were having a little earlier, as I was, 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.039 you know, introducing the show or apologies for that, I'm 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:12.600 so sorry. 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:13.920 It's Jessica Swartz. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:16.319 It is. 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.160 Apologies for that. We did get your name wrong right 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.160 on the runner. But yes, Jessica, welcome and thank you 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.120 so much for joining us. I was saying at the 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.960 start of our conversation that the term narcissist is one 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.600 that's used quite a bit and very used loosely and 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:36.119 almost very recklessly. 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.800 Sometimes do is that not? So? 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.160 That is a lot of the time, the second someone 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.400 displays any sense of self importance or self confidence, I 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:49.640 should say a lot of the time, it can be 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:51.160 characterized as narcissism. 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:54.880 And is it always No. 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:59.120 It's nice. Sometimes someone is simply just arrogant. It doesn't 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.080 necessarily mean they are a narcissist. 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.400 Yes, I think it's become people have started using the 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.120 two interchangeably, where sometimes you just mean this this man 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.440 is arrogant, Well, this person is arrogant, But then we 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.680 use the term narcissism. I want us to start with 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:21.800 narcissistic personality disorder, because that's a health condition. 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.559 Isn't it, it is, yes. 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.799 What is it? And how do you know? You may 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.400 have NPD? 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.080 So the really the way that you would know is 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.959 you would have to have a professional diagnosis. But narcissistic 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:43.160 personality to disorder is someone who has an exaggerated sense 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:48.839 of self importance. They are often quite charming. They that's 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.200 how they lure you, is they charm you, They chart 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:55.120 you to get what they want and then they switch. Now, 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:59.200 when it comes to narcissism and narcissists, a lot of 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:03.519 people often wonder like why me, why what? Like those 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.760 are my fault? And the thing is it's not. That's 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.919 what a narcissist does. They look for people who are 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:16.440 very empathetic. They look for people who have low self 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:18.880 love or things like that, and then they charm you 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:20.880 and the manipulate you to get what they want. 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.120 You know, I've seen people saying that there's a difference 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:30.720 between a narcissist and a person with narcissistic personality disorder? 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:32.080 Is that the case? 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:40.320 So I wouldn't say so. For my opinion, personally, I 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:47.280 think that someone with narcissistic personality disorder is more it's like, 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.240 more high profile behavior than what is commonly known as 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:56.840 a narcissist. That is a differentiation that I would make personally. 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.640 Yeah, but you're saying with the disorder would have to 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.880 be diagnosed and you'd have to have seen a professional 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:06.280 to diagnose you. 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:08.720 That is correct. 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:10.800 Yes, how does that work? So? 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.720 So I mean, what what symptoms can one look out for? 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.760 I mean, I think it sounds it sounds odd, and 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:22.040 it sounds like something funny when you think, am I arrogant? 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.080 Do I think too highly of myself? 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:24.800 Do I? 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:26.960 And then maybe I should go get checked out? Is 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:28.040 that how it works? 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:33.360 So not necessarily like Some personality traits that anarcissist may 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.039 have is they think they are more important than everyone else. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:41.360 They are very self censive. They can be overly controlling, 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.800 and I know people there's a difference between puggressive and controlling, 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.640 and when I say overly controlling, I mean and full 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:53.599 control of everything all the time. They often get upset 0:04:53.640 --> 0:05:01.520 when they feel slightly criticized. They will make any conversation 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.960 about them. It's basically someone who's entire world rules around me. 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.080 How can I make this about me? How can I 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.840 use you to get what I want? So those are 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:16.839 definitely key traits of a narcissist. 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.560 We're speaking narcissistic personality disorder. 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.960 Can a narcissist really change? Right? 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:27.360 On seven oh two Jessica Swartz a neuro feedback practitioner, 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:32.599 and she's with Brain Harmonics talking us through narcissism. And 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.600 I keep saying it's it's a buzzword right now, everyone 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.280 says that one's a narcissist, he's a narcissist. 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.520 Oh, I left because he's a narcissist. Oh I can't 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:41.720 because he's narcissistic. 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:43.799 But I also do think there should be a concerted 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.160 effort to understand what exactly it is. We're taking your 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.240 calls on zero double one double A three oh seven 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.240 oh two O to one double four six oh five 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:55.520 six seven. If you'd rather send us an S mess 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:59.039 it's three one seven O two that's the S mess number, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.160 and on whatsip zero seven two zero seven two seven 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.599 oh two one seven oh two. So get in touch 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.159 with us. Have you been in contact with an narcissistic person? 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.360 Are you of the opinion that they can come back 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.719 from that? Get in touch with us. We'd love to 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.520 hear from you, Jessica. That brings me to my next question. 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.080 Since it is something that can be diagnosed, is it 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.679 also something that can be medicated? 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:33.200 So, Jessica, can you hear me? I'm sorry, I think 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:34.000 I cut out. 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.080 A little bit. Yes, yes, like we can hear you now. 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:41.320 Okay, So it's not necessarily a trade that can be 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:48.000 medicated because it's not I'm not quite sure how the 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:52.960 word I'm looking for. It's more of a thing that 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:58.880 your brain created as a protective layer almost, So it's 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:04.200 not like VPD or schizophrenia where there are medications to 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.239 help it. Like I said, a lot of people confuse 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:13.000 being arrogant or overconfident with narcissism. So the main thing 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:18.320 that would help a narcissist or cure a narcissism would 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:24.080 be them taking accountability and you know, go into therapy 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:28.160 and talking about you know, first of what you know 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.960 they upbringing was what caused their brain to go into 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:37.080 this and make the transition into protecting themselves so much 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.240 so that where they can't be vulnerable. 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:41.560 H Okay. 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:43.920 So it's something that would have to be dealt with 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:51.560 in therapy. Yes, oh okay, And I mean then I 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:55.680 suppose this is an inverted commerce. Can a narcissist or 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.600 a narcissism be quote unquote cured. 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.800 Yes, but it is extremely rare and difficult because, like 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.000 I said, you know, the person has to take accountability, 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.960 they have to want to change and seek helpful themselves. 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.400 You know, if I was a narcissist, then you're trying 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.160 to say, you know, Jessica, you need to get help 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.800 or you know, we need to address these things, and 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.760 I don't necessarily want to. I'm going to stay in 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.360 that same mindset of I'm not the problem. I'm the 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:29.960 victim here. You know, I'm not going to take accountability 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:33.880 for those things, and I may resist going to therapy 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:38.960 so it can be cured. But the person themselves, the 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.680 narcissists themselves, would have to be the one to make 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:43.559 that change. 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:46.559 Ah, So to have to come from them. 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:48.320 Good would yes? 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.000 And how I mean generally people with this disorder are 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.600 they good with introspection? I imagine they aren't because it's 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.400 everyone else that's wrong and they're amazing and everything should 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.920 be sent to them and they're the you know, the 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.439 main character of life. I don't think it would be 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.319 easy for them to introspect. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.600 No, you are one hundred percent correct, because remember, like 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.640 we were saying they are the victim and their brain. 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.080 It's your fault. You did this to me, you know, 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.280 it's your fault that we have in this argument. They 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.960 really do not think that they are a problem or 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:31.800 to blame at all. So yeah, no, it would be 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.160 very difficult for someone else to help them. 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:42.760 And I mean, are they causes to this disorder you know, 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:44.320 are bringing? 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.520 Maybe? You know, are they causes? Or is that far 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:49.520 too simplistic? 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:57.040 So no, they are, you know, childhood upbringing, excessive praise 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.120 or being overvalued. When a child is constantly told or 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.160 they're special or they're better than others, they may learn 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:10.640 to accept admiration without effort at all. Or it could 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:15.120 be the exact opposite, excessive criticism and emotional neglect to 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.600 where they feel like they never got enough. So then 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:22.400 they develop this false sense and this inflated image to 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:28.160 protect themselves from deep insecurity. Or it could be conditional 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:33.600 love or conditional approval. You know, they may praise that 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:39.320 admiration to feel worthy because they were only given God 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.000 admiration if they performed as stressing way as a child. 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:47.120 Of course, then the last example would be they grew 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:53.000 up with narcissistic parents or emotional abuse that reinforced the 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.240 manipulative and self censored behavior. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:58.640 I'm taking your calls on Is there a double one 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.000 three seven to talk to us? Have you been in 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.600 a relationship with a narcissist? Are you married to one? 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:10.439 And how is it being, you know, in contact with 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:14.640 a person like that, someone who is so self absorbed 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.120 they're the main character of life. You know, someone who 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.240 sees no wrong in themselves, but you know only it's 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.080 it's other people. It's always other people who are wrong, 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.839 Always other people who are the problem. Someone who thinks 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:32.560 they are more important and matter more than everyone else. 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:34.520 I want to hear from you. Give us a call 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.079 so we can talk about it. I guess this evening 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:42.439 talking us through narcissistic personality disorder is Jessica Swartz, and 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:46.160 she is helping us make sense of the disorder. I'm 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.679 learning a lot about it, and I hope you are too, Jessica. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.160 I mean, maybe let's also go into how can one 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:57.360 cope with a narcissist? How do you especially one who 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.520 is quote unquote unrepentant or doesn't want. 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:00.920 To seek help. 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:11.520 So there are quite a few ways to deal or 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.240 cope with a narcissist. The first one I would definitely 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.920 say is remember that it isn't your fault. Not everything 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:24.080 is your fault. Well, so make sure that you kind 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.920 of educate yourself about narcissism so that you can also 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:36.880 kind of understand their point of view. I guess you 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.640 could say, you know, at the end of the day, 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.840 as difficult and horrible as it is to deal with 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.240 a narcissist, I feel like it's always good to understand 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.920 where they're coming from, you know, maybe understand the root 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:56.960 of where their narcissism is coming from. Maintaining boundaries, Also 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:03.440 establishing healthy boundary is you know, avoid arguments, As difficult 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.600 as it may be, avoiding arguments is also a really 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.280 good thing. Or considering therapy for yourself so that you know, 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.880 you can also learn how to set healthier boundaries, like 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:21.520 I've aforementioned, being confident in being seen. You know, those 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.400 are just a few ways to deal with a narcissist. 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:32.040 Yeah, Anonymous, you're in So you had experience with a narcissist. 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.040 Good evening, Welcome to the show Evening. 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:40.920 Yes, I did for ten years, so it was a 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:48.160 selling new relationship. So I just came from totial institution. Well, 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.439 I came from my first year. I wasn't a relationship. 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:56.200 This was my first boyfriend, and I didn't understand why 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.960 whenever you would express yourself it would be like a courtroom. 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.920 So you're the one less of problem. You're this, you're that. 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:09.439 Youre so imagine as a young person experiencing that and 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:15.880 not experiencing the full affection of a relationship. It took 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.640 a long time for me to actually say, Okay, in 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:24.880 actual fact, I'm not the problem here, right, And I'm 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.320 still healing even ten plus years later, I'm still healing 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:34.040 from it. It's a traumatic it's really traumatic. So for 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.520 for somebody to actually say, you must understand the narcissist. 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.120 You can never understand the nas I write my experience 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.520 and never understood this person because he chose a path 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:50.760 of you're wrong, and you're wrong constant constantly. 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:52.640 He's never wrong. 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.840 And and at what point did you realize that you're 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:58.480 in a relationship with a narcissist. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:06.520 It took my mother to actually open my eyes, you know, so, 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.600 so you know, like where you because it's your first relationship, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.760 you've never had, You've never dealt with any relationship with 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:18.440 any other person. Right, So it took somebody else to 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.040 actually open my eyes and and and and and show 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.200 me an experience of what love is supposed to be. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:30.119 This is not love, this is actually you're in a courtroom, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.640 a constant courtroom that is never ending, you know. And 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.520 he would do whatever he wanted. He would go cheating, 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.400 and it will be a play for him to do that. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.840 And if you address it, then you're the problem. 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:48.880 It's all your fault. 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.800 It's because of this because somebody died in your family. 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:54.200 You can't be emotional about it. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:57.480 And you said, ten years later. 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:02.200 Yeah, yeah, it's a long time. It took a long 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:07.400 time to actually recognize that I am actually not the problem. Yeah, 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.960 that person is the problem, you know. So yeah, so narcissists, 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:16.520 I think it's just in the DNA. We can say 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:21.000 that they might there must be some adade thing that 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.280 that occurs in their upbringing, but it's like it's in 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:27.520 it's in them in their DNA. You can never cheat 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:28.200 the narcissist. 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:28.640 I don't know. 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.960 It's it's chronic, chronic thing. 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.040 And and if I may anonymous ten years on, how 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.600 is this affected your other relationships? Are you in a 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:40.960 in a long term relationship. 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:45.280 Now, No, I don't trust. I don't trust anybody now. 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.920 Like I think also, if I experience a certain level 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:55.840 of maybe an argument and and there's no peace within 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.680 that argument or even like a normal conversation, I would 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.120 rather just shut down and away from that and just 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.480 remove myself from that because it's a trigger. It's a 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:12.800 it's a it's terrible. It's terrible. Yeah, the trigger, so 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:17.639 I've seen, it gives me basically like some form of PTSD. 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:22.720 You know, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.840 Yeah, but it took a long time to actually built 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.879 myself up again. I'm in a good place. I'm in 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.760 a good place. I'm obviously not completely feels but I'm 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:33.399 in a good place. 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:35.560 And are you getting help? 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:35.919 Are you? 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:37.560 Are you getting serious? 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:43.040 Definity? Definitely definity? So whatever trigger? So what my my 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:47.560 my therapist stated that I whatever triggers that I experienced, 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.080 I just have to just move myself from it because 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:55.440 obviously I will develop anxiety issues and you know, and 0:17:56.119 --> 0:18:00.840 hyperventilate like it will be that bad, it will be 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.800 that bad. So so so that that helps a lot, 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.280 you know, that helps a lot. But I removed myself 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:12.600 from anything that creates prayers in my life removes them. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:17.640 Sure, yeah, yeah, so that's my part of my Yeah, Altamus, 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.040 I just want to I want to thank you so 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.600 much for being so vulnerable with us this evening. 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.479 And sure yeah and and and I wish you all 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.600 the best, you know, yeah, and I wish you healing. 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:30.560 Thank you, thank you. 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.480 I mean, Jessica, is does a sound familiar the fact 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.199 that the effects of the behaviors of narcissists that's not 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.719 a long lasting, are so long lasting on the lives 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.440 of others, particularly those affected by them. 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.400 It does, you know, and it is an unfortunate thing 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.840 that it takes so long to heal. And you know, 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.520 I wouldn't wish that on anyone. And the unfortunate part 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.400 of it is it is so common and it does 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.159 take a long time to heal because remember especially you know, 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.760 like Anonymous said, it was a long term relationship. So 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.439 when someone is constantly saying, this is your fault, you 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.560 know this is because of you, and you know you 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:14.359 are now conditioned to think, oh, it is my fault. 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.000 You know this is because of me. So you know, 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:18.800 that's just one of the examples, and it's going to 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.080 take a long time for you to be like, actually, 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.440 it's not Actually I didn't do anything wrong. So it's 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.320 things like that where you kind of have to teach 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:35.879 yourself that you weren't the problem. 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.600 And I think an important question to raise awareness but 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:45.920 also to debunk some myths. Narcissism is not a gender 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.960 It's not gender dependence, right, It's not a male thing 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:50.880 or a female thing. 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:56.560 Not, it's not not. Anyone can be a narcissist, male, female, 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.240 in between, doesn't matter. 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:04.200 Do you know why more it's always used in relation 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.800 or to describe men more than it is to describe women. 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:12.280 Is it because women just like to use the word, So. 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:21.239 That could be the reason. Can you please repeat that 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:22.080 last little bit. 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.159 I didn't No, no, no, I'm just saying, you know, 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:27.720 and and quite we might not know. I'm just saying, 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.240 you know, it's interesting, and I wonder why why it's 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:37.080 often used, you know, to describe men, you know, especially 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:38.879 now that we understand that it's a disorder and can 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:45.280 affect everyone, you know, I it it has me wondering 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.600 why why is it used often to describe men? 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.639 Oh okay, I'm so sorry. The first time you asked 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:57.120 that question, I thought you said something else, but no, 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.959 So it is used more to the describe men because 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:08.440 more men are diagnosed with narcissistic personality disupport it. And 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:12.480 that doesn't mean that you know, no woman can have 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:17.480 can be a narcissist. It is just that men display 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:26.280 more characteristics. Based on science and studies, cultural and gender 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:32.040 normal society often does encourage narcissistic traits and men like 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:42.200 you know, toughness, independence, status, emotional detachments as well traits 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:49.080 like ambition and confidence and assertiveness. Those all praised and 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:53.359 men so again, like one of the reason is when 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.560 constant things like that are being praised, it can develop 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.199 into a constant need for the praise for those things. 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:05.280 Jessica Swartz, I want to thank you so much for 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.080 coming on the show and just helping us make sense 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:09.560 of narcissism.