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Speaker 1: Where your eastern weekend sounds better On seven oh to

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Speaker 1: seven two.

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Speaker 2: It's twelve minutes after a nine o'clock Welcome back to

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Speaker 2: this good Friday seven oh two weekend breakfast with me,

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Speaker 2: googs and filmum. Time for us to talk psychological wellness.

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Speaker 2: And this morning we're talking about the power of being

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Speaker 2: able to laugh at yourself, especially in a situation that

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Speaker 2: perhaps would ordinarily be awkward or embarrassing. There is some

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Speaker 2: power in being able to make light of yourself. And

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Speaker 2: I want to hear those stories. What are the things

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Speaker 2: that maybe you're not so good at, or maybe it

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Speaker 2: was an awkward moment but you handled it with a

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Speaker 2: little bit of humor. Tell us about it on a

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Speaker 2: double one eight three or seven oh two. Send us

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Speaker 2: your SMS is on three one seven oh two, and

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Speaker 2: a WhatsApp message or a voice note on seven two,

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Speaker 2: seven oh two one seven oh two. We're joined us

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Speaker 2: always by our residence, clinical psychologist, doctor Cosi Giane, Doctor Janet.

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Speaker 2: A very good morning, too.

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Speaker 1: Good Friday, greetings to you, good.

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Speaker 2: Happy, happy good Friday to you too. So this morning

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Speaker 2: we're talking about how laughter can sometimes quite literally be

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Speaker 2: the best medicine. Often we hear that. You know, laughter

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Speaker 2: can be great, especially in difficult times. I think a

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Speaker 2: couple of months ago we had a conversation about how

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Speaker 2: sometimes laughing, even in really difficult times, can actually just

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Speaker 2: help carry you through. Now we're talking about how laughter

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Speaker 2: can help us navigate the awkward and the embarrassing, which

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Speaker 2: I mean, all of it happens to us. You will

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Speaker 2: find yourself in an awkward moment or an embarrassing moment,

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Speaker 2: but generally the impulse isn't to laugh. Something else happens

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Speaker 2: to us. So when we are you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: caught unawares or do something awkward or embarrassing, we don't

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Speaker 2: really laugh. What happens to our brain when we find

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Speaker 2: ourselves in those situations.

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Speaker 1: It's such an interesting thing, you know, I mean, a

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Speaker 1: quirk's just a human peculiarity. Because you know, I've had

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Speaker 1: to kind of like take a step back, as I

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Speaker 1: often you do, you know, to allow myself to not

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Speaker 1: take for granted, because we easily can take for granted,

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Speaker 1: you know, our sense of humor, the ability to laugh,

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Speaker 1: as an an integral part of being human, right, And

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Speaker 1: if we step back for a moment and think, what

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Speaker 1: is it actually to be able to laugh at something

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Speaker 1: and you kind of dissect it in slow motion. What

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Speaker 1: does it actually entail? It's about, you know, and laughter

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Speaker 1: is it's like a crossroads of things when things happen

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Speaker 1: in a way that is unexpected contrary to you know,

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Speaker 1: whether it's conceptual or something physical that happens. And I

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Speaker 1: laughed at myself the other week. What started off as

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Speaker 1: supposed to be breakfast in baid as I'm coming up

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Speaker 1: the stairs, doctor happened and I started kind of coming

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Speaker 1: back down the staircase and trying to hold that plate. Thankfully,

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Speaker 1: I didn't lose the plate, but I lost the food

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Speaker 1: and I stood there. I just looked at it and

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Speaker 1: I just laughed at it, you know, I just and

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about that moment, it could

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Speaker 1: have been frustrating, painful. I could have Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: a friend of mine because I even posted it on

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Speaker 1: my status and I said, you know what actually is

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Speaker 1: supposed to be breakfast in bad Lands on the floor

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Speaker 1: And my friend said, I would have cried. You see

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Speaker 1: how in that crossroads there could have been a number

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Speaker 1: of possibilities. So there's something about recognizing and that an

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Speaker 1: expectation has been violated because this is not how things

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Speaker 1: were supposed to go, and processing it, interpreting and making

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Speaker 1: meaning out of it. In this case, I could have cried,

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Speaker 1: but instead, for whatever reason, I found reason to do

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Speaker 1: the opposite and laugh at it. I could have said,

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Speaker 1: there on the stairs and cried.

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Speaker 3: I laughed at it.

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Speaker 1: And then I picked up my food, I put it

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Speaker 1: back on the plate, and I ate it all except

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Speaker 1: for one that just landed on a piece of wood,

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Speaker 1: and I just like, okay, that's why I'm I leave.

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Speaker 1: But I ate everything. And I mean people were saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you did well, you know, I mean five second rule.

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Speaker 1: I said, I don't even have a five second rule.

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Speaker 3: I grew up.

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Speaker 1: There's so many things I've picked up in my life

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Speaker 1: in growing up, and I'm still alive, so it really

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Speaker 1: couldn't have hurt and I just ate it and life continued.

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Speaker 1: So there's just that quick a peculiarity in human beings

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Speaker 1: to experience and incongruity as joyful and lights in a

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Speaker 1: light hearted way that then evokes the emotion of laughter

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Speaker 1: as opposed to threatening, frustrating, being you know, painful, and

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Speaker 1: all those kinds of things, as you said, awkward and embarrassing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so apparently there is a study in your

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Speaker 2: research that's been published, that's been done by a professor

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Speaker 2: at Cornell University that apparently, finding humor in the moment

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Speaker 2: will make you more likable. People will see you as warmer,

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Speaker 2: more competent, and more authentic than if you're still cringing

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Speaker 2: five minutes later. The studies co author said, for harmless

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Speaker 2: social mistakes, laughing at yourself often makes you look better

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Speaker 2: than blushing or showing embarrassment, which is interesting because you

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Speaker 2: would think that, you know, being stoic, kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: straight face, serious face. Yeah, that is the thing that

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Speaker 2: will make people respect you, Whereas I guess laughter when

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Speaker 2: you drop your breakfast in what's meant to be breakfast

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Speaker 2: in bed and ends up being breakfast on the floor

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Speaker 2: kind of humanizes you a little bit. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this person has this side to them, and yeah, I

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Speaker 2: like it because I guess too. I mean, we just

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Speaker 2: got a message from Kingsley who says adulting has definitely

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Speaker 2: robbed me of laughter, even though every now and then

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Speaker 2: something unexpected reminds me of what it means to laugh

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Speaker 2: from the baby like a child. I want to rediscover

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Speaker 2: what it's like to laugh, like Shenzi the Hyena and

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Speaker 2: the Lion King. That's from Kingsley. So for many of

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Speaker 2: us we don't laugh enough. Something happens when we turn

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Speaker 2: twenty one, we just laugh significantly less. Nothing is funny Ooo.

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Speaker 1: The seriousness of life, you know, as he says, adulting like,

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Speaker 1: you have to take life seriously. And there's now these expectations,

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Speaker 1: and there's now these burden of this burden of responsibilities

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Speaker 1: that we don't have in our earlier years. When we

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Speaker 1: are when our hands are stretched out and we are

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Speaker 1: asking can I have this? Can I have this? Can

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Speaker 1: I have this? When that the tables turn and the

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Speaker 1: expectation is what are you putting on the table? And

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Speaker 1: we have to show up in certain ways? And you know,

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Speaker 1: you get the life is not just a laughter, you know,

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Speaker 1: and the seriousness to it, which is also of course

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Speaker 1: true because it's not a laughing matter. Adult think it's

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Speaker 1: not a laughing matter even though we need to laugh,

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Speaker 1: because it says there's responsibilities, there's getting up, there's having

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Speaker 1: to show up in certain ways. You know, there's expectations

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Speaker 1: from your career, at your job, your life, your partner,

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Speaker 1: societal expectations that say, by this time, this is where

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Speaker 1: you should be, this is what you should have achieved.

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Speaker 1: And so we are on the treadmill and judging ourselves

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Speaker 1: and finding ourselves wanting, and I guess that chips away

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Speaker 1: at the ability to just have laughter as an integral

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Speaker 1: part of our lives, and we get less and less

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Speaker 1: of that and more and more of the seriousness and

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Speaker 1: things needing to be in a certain way. And laughter

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Speaker 1: is about a crack in that, in that expectation, in

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Speaker 1: that process of life, a crack in there that enables

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Speaker 1: us to find lightness and being able to appreciate the

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Speaker 1: imperfections that we are right even as we strive to

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Speaker 1: be better people through the course of our lives. And

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Speaker 1: it's an ongoing thing, you know, being able to juggle

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Speaker 1: the incongruity with the congruity of life as things unfold

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Speaker 1: as they should. We achieve this, it's great, we celebrate that,

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Speaker 1: but there's also the incongruity, and it's about how do

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Speaker 1: we react to it in a manner that enables us

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Speaker 1: to lighten what perhaps, as you were saying, alluding to

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Speaker 1: even when somebody has died, you know, as we say,

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Speaker 1: you know gets when I'm sure you being able to

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Speaker 1: find a moment of lightness in the heaviness of things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And also so this co author of the study also says,

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Speaker 2: it seems that when we love at ourselves, it signals

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Speaker 2: self acceptance, and we love people who accept themselves. So

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Speaker 2: you you know, you fall, you drop something, you bump yourself,

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Speaker 2: you walk into a plus door, which has happened to

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Speaker 2: all of us. And when you laugh to the I

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Speaker 2: guess the audience of the people who are looking, that

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Speaker 2: could signal that, yeah, I mean I did this, It's

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Speaker 2: not a big deal. Happens to all of us.

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Speaker 1: It's really okay, the silliness and you release it because

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Speaker 1: if you think about what did the opposite of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the awkwardness, the embarrassment, how that in a

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Speaker 1: way adds to an already you know, awkward situation. So

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Speaker 1: it compounds the situation rather than diffusing it. And that's

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Speaker 1: what laughter really, at the end of the day enables

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Speaker 1: us to do, is to diffuse what could potentially be

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Speaker 1: a tense situation. And in that way, if we look

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Speaker 1: at the you know, the family of emotions, the feel

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Speaker 1: good that dopamine, the feel good hormones that it triggers,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we feel yeah, lighter, happier, far more

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Speaker 1: fun and and and a moment of lightness in life

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Speaker 1: than the added burden of seeing it in a different

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Speaker 1: way and therefore kind of triggering the stress hormones which

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Speaker 1: then make things even heavier than they need to be.

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Speaker 1: And I guess and it also invites others to participate

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Speaker 1: in that joy because then they can also laugh at

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Speaker 1: what they have observed, which was a vicarious experience for

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Speaker 1: them seeing it through your experience and being able to

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Speaker 1: add a moment of joy for themselves through your experience.

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Speaker 2: I guess even for people who are parents, being able

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Speaker 2: to laugh at yourself was also a great way to

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Speaker 2: teach kids how to handle awkward things, especially because the

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Speaker 2: younger you are, you're kind of you don't have your coordination.

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Speaker 2: You're going to be doing things for the first time.

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Speaker 2: There are going to be a lot of awkward moments,

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Speaker 2: lots of falls, lots of things being dropped, and often

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Speaker 2: kids can feel shame and a lot of it has

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Speaker 2: to do with what the people around them do. And

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Speaker 2: so I guess this is also a thing parents can mimic,

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Speaker 2: can model for their kids that you know, you didn't

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Speaker 2: realize that that was a puddle, you put your foot

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Speaker 2: in it, laugh about it or you dropped something. Laugh

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Speaker 2: about it as opposed to feeling terrible about it or

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Speaker 2: embarrassed or ashamed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I mean if we think about it,

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Speaker 1: you know, laughter and humor is that there's an innate

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Speaker 1: aspect of it. There's a biological neurologically, you know, to

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Speaker 1: be able to process information and recognize the patch of

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Speaker 1: things or processes this is how things should go, and

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Speaker 1: when they go in the opposite direction, to be able

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Speaker 1: to reconcile that irony, that and and that surprise element

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Speaker 1: of things not following the sequence that they should. And

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Speaker 1: I mean I was actually looking at my neighbor's baby,

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Speaker 1: who is almost six months now, and I was looking

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Speaker 1: at the fact that this is laughing. So he is

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Speaker 1: already processing information and experiencing whether you know, you make

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Speaker 1: faces and he finds that funny. And and so you

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Speaker 1: can see there's a biological element because he doesn't talk,

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Speaker 1: but he clearly is making sense of things and is

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Speaker 1: able to find it to distinguish between normal and this

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Speaker 1: is different from what is normal because you can make

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Speaker 1: a straight face and it's okay. But then when you

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Speaker 1: do it different face, he's able to see that this

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Speaker 1: one and find it humorous, silly and humorous. So there's

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Speaker 1: a biological element, but equally an important one is a

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Speaker 1: social and cultural element, because what some societies, and beginning

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Speaker 1: with the family as our you know, closest social unit,

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Speaker 1: is where we learn about humor. We see it in others,

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Speaker 1: they teach us in addition to the biological infrastructure that

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Speaker 1: we need. You know, if you if you look at

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Speaker 1: you know, PEPs children on the autism spectrum, for example,

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Speaker 1: that are not able to read social cues and find

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Speaker 1: humor and lightness in things that other people would normally

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Speaker 1: find humor us. But also society tells us that these

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Speaker 1: are this is a lot, this is no laughing matter.

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Speaker 1: And so in a way we we kind of have

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Speaker 1: to take that into and yet be able to find

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Speaker 1: the incongruity something that we can also make sense of

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Speaker 1: and incorporate into a quirk of being human that things

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Speaker 1: are not always going to go the way they should,

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Speaker 1: and we can find lightness even in that.

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Speaker 2: We've got Stephen on the line to us from Pretoria,

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Speaker 2: West Steven, thank you for holding good morning.

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Speaker 4: Good morning. I just wanted to share the how laughter

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Speaker 4: has said to eliminate me and my traffic coffie are last.

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Speaker 4: And then at the end he ended up not giving

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Speaker 4: me what they're supposed to be giving you the techid right,

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Speaker 4: he stops me, and then I asked me, I gave

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Speaker 4: him my lasting and then you look at me and said,

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Speaker 4: oh Stephen, good And then no, you know that now

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Speaker 4: I'm Steven. Now I'm speaking an after gun. Now that

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Speaker 4: you know that, I'm seeing. What is your name? And

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Speaker 4: he said your go wos fenders And I asked you

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Speaker 4: which center? And then he dropped the pen down and

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Speaker 4: said how many centers are there? I said, no, there

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Speaker 4: are two centers. You've got centers made the central colors.

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Speaker 4: I want to know which one I use. And then

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Speaker 4: in the meantime he was writing, but the carbon paper

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Speaker 4: was not the year's day. And then I said to me,

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Speaker 4: you're queer but Piresinga and Guere but Piers corbon paper.

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Speaker 4: But I say that a gun and he stop writing,

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Speaker 4: ask me what what what is a gurpa peace? And

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Speaker 4: then I said, that's the one that you call the

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Speaker 4: laugh of beer in Africa. So you told the problems

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Speaker 4: that I have known. We both laugh now when I

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Speaker 4: really studied realizing that he didn't know that, and then

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Speaker 4: you put the pend on and he started laughing, and

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Speaker 4: then I also laugh and said, not I'm hearing this thing.

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Speaker 4: I'm just candling this thing. But the friend that made

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Speaker 4: me feel that because when he apposed me, he will

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Speaker 4: oppose me politely. He asked me, where are you from them?

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Speaker 4: From harm? And then while Kara where there is still

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Speaker 4: in bread and and pretorious, and he said that you

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Speaker 4: must go and tell them that, yeah, in quest, we

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Speaker 4: don't encry for us. And I said, yeah, no, a fine,

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Speaker 4: that's a very good thing that I'm going to EXTRADI

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Speaker 4: share with him. But we end up in joy laughing

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Speaker 4: after he said that, Now, how did I know that

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Speaker 4: this people is called queer pape?

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Speaker 2: So it got you out of trouble, Yeah, it.

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Speaker 4: Got me out of time because we end up both

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Speaker 4: of us last years virtualist and the angel to each other. Yeah, y,

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Speaker 4: that's that's that's how lost sometimes connect situation, negative situation

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Speaker 4: to a positive situation. And he become a friend. I

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Speaker 4: went to visit him and then I got.

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Speaker 3: Yes, thank you Steven, beautiful moment right, It is that transmutation,

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Speaker 3: the reframing of an experience.

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Speaker 1: So there's a transgression. He exceeded the speed limit. From

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Speaker 1: what I could hear, I didn't hear everything. He exceeded

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Speaker 1: the speed limit. There's some transgression. There should be a consequence,

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Speaker 1: of punitive consequence. But as human beings encounter each other,

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Speaker 1: in that moment of encountering each other, they are able

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Speaker 1: to find a way in which they can meet in

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Speaker 1: a common space of lightness that then begins to supersede

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Speaker 1: the seriousness of the transgression, right, and they could make

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Speaker 1: sense of something else. They have a meaningful exchange that

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Speaker 1: becomes worth more, you know, than the transgression. And it's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful moment because generally, you know, encounters with traffic

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Speaker 1: police is never a light moment. And I know we

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Speaker 1: often try to sweeten things out so that they don't

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Speaker 1: write us tickets or write you lets and things like that.

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Speaker 1: And and I guess it's a beautiful moment of knowing that, ah,

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Speaker 1: you know, sure there's been a transgression, that there's more

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Speaker 1: to life than just you know, yielding or wielding the

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Speaker 1: stick on a transgression. And we could find each other

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Speaker 1: in a way that could create a connection that even

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Speaker 1: you know, is worth more than just what you could

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Speaker 1: have done as a as a sanction for a behavior.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fact that it's now developed into a

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Speaker 2: friendship just from that you know, random exchange. And that's

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Speaker 2: the other thing I guess kind of not being so

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Speaker 2: worried about being you know, I'm embarrassed. I feel ashamed,

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Speaker 2: is you could start a conversation with someone, they could

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Speaker 2: become a friend or you know. It kind of it

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Speaker 2: feels as if love is kind of expansive. It gives

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Speaker 2: you a few more options right now. You could you

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Speaker 2: could make a friend.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed exactly, And it's that crossroads of things can

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Speaker 1: go this way or that way or that way, right,

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Speaker 1: and it's about choosing that twist in the road that

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Speaker 1: makes it a lighter encounter in this case, you know,

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Speaker 1: than what it could have turned out to be. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a beautiful way in which we create possibilities

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Speaker 1: of meaning an encounter with life, you know, whatever it

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Speaker 1: could be, because it could always go south, as we

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Speaker 1: would say, Yeah, but it's about lightning it and yeah,

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Speaker 1: making a joyful meaning of it.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Giannett has always a great pleasure having you on

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Speaker 2: the show. Thank you so much for your time.

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Speaker 1: My big thank you to you too, and a good

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Speaker 1: Friday to our listeners that.

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Speaker 2: Friday to you too. That's our residence. Clinical psychologist doctor

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Speaker 2: corc GM coming up. We speak to a different kind

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Speaker 2: of doctor. He is a musicologist. He's academic register at

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Speaker 2: the Academy of Sound Engineering, Doctor Sheldon Leal. He's a

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Speaker 2: good friend of the show. He will join us in

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Speaker 2: the music horner and we're going to talk about some

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Speaker 2: of the biggest songs in gospel. We'll talk local the

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Speaker 2: gospel industry, and then we'll also talk internationally. So I

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Speaker 2: expect some Coke Franklin, expect some Riverka Malpe and earlier

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Speaker 2: on I asked, what were the gospel songs that played

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Speaker 2: in your home when you were growing up, if you

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Speaker 2: were raised in a home that played gospel, or what

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Speaker 2: are the songs you play now that are regulars your playlist?

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Speaker 2: Let us know, I know seven two, seven oh two one,

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Speaker 2: seven oh two. Before that, though it's twenty eight minutes

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Speaker 2: before ten o'clock. Let's check in with you later as

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Speaker 2: I witness New Sports with Mawan de Martza