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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk little.

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Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

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Speaker 3: by Abscess CIB proud sole Leader Ranger and Infrastructure Finance

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Speaker 3: Structuring Agent of the South African National Treasury S eleven

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Speaker 3: point eight billion round Infrastructure and Development Finance Bond. Good

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Speaker 3: evening at State minutes after six times, Stephen Curtis, nice

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Speaker 3: to have you along with us here on The Money

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Speaker 3: Show tonight. A lots going on still, I mean lot,

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Speaker 3: a lot of movement on the JASE, A lot of

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Speaker 3: sort of thought about the JAC at this time of year,

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Speaker 3: I must just say and what this means for next year.

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Speaker 3: But in terms of sort of things going on, plenty

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Speaker 3: of developments. I was astonished just a few moments ago

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Speaker 3: from twenty four has the story I think routers they

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Speaker 3: are broken originally to discover that South Africa is shipping

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Speaker 3: more coal to Israel than anyone else, and that's because Columbia,

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Speaker 3: which was their major supplier, has basically refused because of

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Speaker 3: the genocide and Gaza. I mean, there's some things about

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Speaker 3: our relationship with Israel that I find quite complex and

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Speaker 3: difficult to understand, and I have to say this would

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Speaker 3: be one of them. You would think our government would

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Speaker 3: be putting pressure on coal companies. Some of the coal

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Speaker 3: companies themselves might be sort of having second thoughts for

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Speaker 3: the reputational risk if they don't want to take a

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Speaker 3: strong moral stand on the issue. Always difficult the Middle East,

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Speaker 3: but particularly I was very surprised to see that we

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Speaker 3: such a big coal supply to Israel. I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: at this point how important coal is to them, and

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Speaker 3: let me just make that point, but still be interested

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Speaker 3: in your view on that. More from the situation around

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Speaker 3: our councils and an important report I thought on money,

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Speaker 3: where about the treasury suggesting it may not pass on

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Speaker 3: the equitable share to around seventy councils because they've been

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Speaker 3: mismanaging their money. Miolnikoleni will be on your radio in

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Speaker 3: a moment. He's an expert on this. We'll also speak

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Speaker 3: to the Vice Prisident for operations for Zimbali Lake. So

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Speaker 3: much money going into the northern Koa Zulintel and it

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Speaker 3: really gets to what people are looking for in residential property.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk about that. We'll speak to Chris Sodavitt the

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Speaker 3: country manager at LUNO. Been a sort of year where

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Speaker 3: I think cryptocurrencies have mainstreamed. We look at strategic leadership

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Speaker 3: in South Africa and then also looking at the situation,

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Speaker 3: the latest on the paramount bid with Netflix and what's

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Speaker 3: happened with that and why it seems that Netflix is

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Speaker 3: ahead at the moment. Good to hear from you. You

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Speaker 3: know the number double one, double A three seven two

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Speaker 3: and two one four four six O five sixty seven.

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Speaker 4: The LNY Show with Stephen Krudis live on ninety two

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Speaker 4: point seven and one six FM.

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Speaker 3: Streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

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Speaker 2: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: As rewind down towards the end of the year, I'd

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Speaker 3: like to ask you a question about the place that

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Speaker 3: you work in. That's a very simple question. Did you

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Speaker 3: have a Christmas party where you work and how did

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Speaker 3: it go? And would you recommend to management they do

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Speaker 3: it again next year? That really would be my question.

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Speaker 3: I do think that Christmas parties have value. I think

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Speaker 3: they get people in a different space, conversations happen, people

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Speaker 3: out of steam, people have been working through the year.

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Speaker 3: I think I think it's all important. I think it

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Speaker 3: reduces tensions Sometimes people who haven't spoken to each other

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Speaker 3: for six months because of some city dispute to find

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Speaker 3: themselves at a Christmas party finally being able to talk

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Speaker 3: on them. Barriers come down. Different people from different sections

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Speaker 3: of a company are all together in a space in

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Speaker 3: which ideas can flow. For various reasons. Obviously there are

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Speaker 3: concerns and I can understand why manager managements might be cautious.

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Speaker 3: Did you have a Christmas party? How did it go?

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Speaker 3: Would you recommend to management they do it again? Your

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Speaker 3: thoughts please? On seven two seven two one seven o

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Speaker 3: two The.

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Speaker 5: Money Show on seven two Monday to Friday six to apm.

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Speaker 3: A report today from Money where that seventy five councils

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Speaker 3: and different parts of the country may not get the

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Speaker 3: share of the equitable grant that is due to them

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Speaker 3: to be paid by the National Treasury. The Treasury frustrated

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Speaker 3: they're not paying their money properly. The essay local Government's

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Speaker 3: Association saying some councils have already reported to them that

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Speaker 3: their money has already been withheld. Milani Heleni is an

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Speaker 3: expert on municipal governance joints as now Milani Good Evening.

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Speaker 3: We've known for a long time. Many councils battle to

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Speaker 3: manage their money. It gets spent. In some cases, perhaps

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Speaker 3: it just gets stolen. It looks like the Treasury is

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Speaker 3: beginning to lose its patience.

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Speaker 6: Good evening, steven and good evening to the listeners. Indeed,

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Speaker 6: I think it's a question of the pressure that exists

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Speaker 6: across you know, municipalities. And not only is that pressure

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Speaker 6: sitting or within municipalities, but obviously within the national and

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Speaker 6: provincial So the entire system is facing pressure, but more

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Speaker 6: specifically with regards to Treasury withholding equitable share. It's definitely

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Speaker 6: not a new practice, but we're seeing it much more widespread.

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Speaker 6: It's a caroten stick, you know, approach which National Treasure

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Speaker 6: is always head in, its up, its live because of

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Speaker 6: trying to drive their kind of behavior within municipalities. But

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Speaker 6: seventy five municipalities is unprecedented and it's something that is

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Speaker 6: worth much more of a closer attention.

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Speaker 3: Are they particular conditions that have to be met for

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Speaker 3: Treasury to do this? I presume that consci just wake

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Speaker 3: up in the morning and decide you're not getting money.

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Speaker 3: They'll have to be conditions, They'll have to be a reason.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely and especially with equitable share. Equitable share is what

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Speaker 6: the National Treasury or the VISCUS makes available as a

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Speaker 6: budget to augment the operational activities of municipalities. So equitable

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Speaker 6: share should really not have any conditions except for the

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Speaker 6: fact that you know, when it's due and payable, it

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Speaker 6: should be paid over to municipalities. At some stage equitable

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Speaker 6: share would have been made available at the beginning of

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Speaker 6: the financial year for the entire financial year, but now

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Speaker 6: Treasury has resulted into making it available quarterly to try

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Speaker 6: and manage the at least, you know, the good use

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Speaker 6: of the finances within municipalities. So equitable shay should not

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Speaker 6: carry any conditions, but we have seen that, you know,

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Speaker 6: to correct behavior. It seems National Treasury has reverted to

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Speaker 6: withholding it and trying to get you know, the right

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Speaker 6: kind of at least management financially for them to be

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Speaker 6: committing regular expenditure, to be advertising the tenders that must

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Speaker 6: be awarded and basically to drive good governance within municipalities.

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Speaker 6: But as we have seen it's not it's not making

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Speaker 6: a change, but it's now putting pressure on municipalities where

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Speaker 6: they can't now meet their obligations to their suppliers or

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Speaker 6: to their creditors in some of them salaries you know,

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Speaker 6: maybe behind So it has now turned out to be

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Speaker 6: causing now a different kind of pressure within the municipalities.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the thing is that you're withholding money from

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Speaker 3: councils that, because they can't manage their money, are battling

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Speaker 3: financially anyway. So for those councils, you're making a bad

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Speaker 3: situation worse. And yet if I with the treasury, I'll

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Speaker 3: probably be tempted to do the same thing.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely. And I think the argument which has come from

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Speaker 6: the South African Local Government Association which says, you know,

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Speaker 6: at least make the conditions predictable, at least you know,

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Speaker 6: agree on timing, communicate with the municipalities in terms of

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Speaker 6: what to expect and what not when to expect you know,

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Speaker 6: those payments. And I think you know, for that matter,

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Speaker 6: is that the obligations of municipalities don't go away. Instead

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Speaker 6: they pile up. In some of the cases they will

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Speaker 6: have gone out to either utilize their overdraft facilities, which

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Speaker 6: come at a cost as well. So the cost you know,

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Speaker 6: compounds as they utilize the funds which are borrowed from

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Speaker 6: their financiers. So I think, you know, it's not definitely

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Speaker 6: a solution that the Treasury should be continuing with in

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Speaker 6: the current form.

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Speaker 3: We need to do.

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Speaker 6: They what definitely need to look at, you know, different

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Speaker 6: ways of how to incentivize good governance. But on the

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Speaker 6: other side, to ensure that municipalities are not hamstrung from

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Speaker 6: their operations. So the issues now is that they're dead's

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Speaker 6: piling up. It's the end of the year for most people.

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Speaker 6: They need to be closing their books. They also need

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Speaker 6: to be paying the likes of ESCOM and the water

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Speaker 6: boards and so on. So then it's compounding a different

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Speaker 6: kind of problems by withholding those the equitable share or

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Speaker 6: the budget that is given to municipalities.

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Speaker 3: Milani good to talk, Thank you so much. Milani Coleni

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Speaker 3: is a municipal governance expert. Sixteen after six.

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Speaker 2: Stephen gone x at at Stephen.

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Speaker 3: Well Hot on the heels that November saw a massive

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Speaker 3: increase in the number of tourists coming to South Africa

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Speaker 3: and confirmation of a new seven star hotel in Cape Town,

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Speaker 3: an announcement that another twenty billion rand's going to be

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Speaker 3: invested in the Zimbali node in Quanzillain itsel, most of

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Speaker 3: it in residential property. Neil Cocker is the vice president

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Speaker 3: of operations for Zimbali Lakes. Neil, good Evening, what kind

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Speaker 3: of development are you building there. It's a huge amount

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Speaker 3: of money that's pouring into the North coast.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Hi, Stephen, thanks for having me on the show tonight.

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Speaker 7: So we're looking at two additions to the Zimbali Lakes development.

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Speaker 7: So the Embodi Lakes is already up and running, that's

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Speaker 7: part of the We've got the arni Old signature course

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Speaker 7: golf course already up in trading and a lot of

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Speaker 7: houses being built outside. But we're adding two additional parts

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Speaker 7: to the estate. One being a country estate, so that'll

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Speaker 7: be slightly bigger piece of land, may be allowed, you know,

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Speaker 7: more horses and chickens and a lifestyle of the country

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Speaker 7: sort of effect. And then a marina component, which we

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Speaker 7: are busy investigating at the moment, which has obviously got

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Speaker 7: a lot of people talking at the moment.

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Speaker 3: You talk about the farm style sort of plots you

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Speaker 3: also have. You call us a gentleman's estate. I'm a

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Speaker 3: little nervous when I ask you this, what is that?

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Speaker 7: It's a it's a bigger the bigger plots, you know,

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Speaker 7: one hectare plots where you can you can do a

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Speaker 7: little bit of farming and that sort of thing. So

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Speaker 7: it's it's just it's a reference to different size of

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Speaker 7: pieces of land within the estate. So anything from sort

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Speaker 7: of like three four hundred square meters up to up

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Speaker 7: to maybe you know, hectare in size.

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Speaker 3: So a gentleman farmer rights resume is where it comes from.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, a little farming sort of sort of environment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, I mean there's been huge growth in that area,

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Speaker 3: and I understand why it's cheaper than the Western Cape.

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Speaker 3: It's a very similar lifestyle. There are plenty of people

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Speaker 3: who've been living in Durban or the urban parts of

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Speaker 3: Quasilinta looking for for a space to go. Are you

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Speaker 3: seeing demand then going to be sustained at this level

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Speaker 3: for quite some time to come?

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Speaker 8: We think so.

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Speaker 7: I mean, especially where we are on the on the

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Speaker 7: north coast now, the Belitito region, it's been growing. I've

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Speaker 7: lived in this area for over twenty five years now

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Speaker 7: and I've seen it grow from a very small little

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Speaker 7: town on the seaside to you know, a bus sort

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Speaker 7: of environment where you've got shopping centers and you know,

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Speaker 7: five private schools and that sort of thing within the area.

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Speaker 7: So yeah, I mean we're expecting for Zimbali's in Body Lakes.

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Speaker 7: It's it's probably a twenty to twenty five year plan

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Speaker 7: of development. So you know, the airport coming onto the

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Speaker 7: north side of Durban has certainly assisted. And then you've

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Speaker 7: got you know, bigger developments like the international investment from

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Speaker 7: Club met onto the north coast as well. So I

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Speaker 7: mean it's a place where you know, we don't know

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Speaker 7: the western cape where that can conflict at times. We've

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Speaker 7: got you know, twelve months of the year generally pretty

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Speaker 7: good weather and ocean you can swim in, and a

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Speaker 7: lifestyle which is great for young families and people looking

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Speaker 7: for a different lifestyle.

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Speaker 3: You can swim in the other ocean. You just have

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Speaker 3: to be tougher neil in. The situation in Durban so

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Speaker 3: deteriorated for quite a while, seems from I've spoken to

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Speaker 3: other people who run hotels and things there recently they

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Speaker 3: say things are looking bitter. Does that have a big

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Speaker 3: impact on you one way or another, people maybe leaving

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Speaker 3: Durban coming to you if it recovers, do some of

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Speaker 3: that demand every way.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, look, I think I think you know, Stephen Durbin

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Speaker 7: is not Balito. Let's just put that out there. We're

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Speaker 7: a different region within casad En where we're governed by

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Speaker 7: Quadakuza Municipality. We have our own sort of like water

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Speaker 7: company sees the waters are private and private company that

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Speaker 7: runs the water supply for for this area and they

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Speaker 7: do a great job. Quadakuza Municipality are very proactive with

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Speaker 7: with developments and things in the area as well. So

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Speaker 7: you know, I think most places in the country have

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Speaker 7: got infrastructure problems and Durban's part of that as well,

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Speaker 7: but I mean they are trying to fix it and

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Speaker 7: it's looking it's looking better all the time. So you know,

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Speaker 7: it is a bit cheaper than the Western Cave for

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Speaker 7: people who want that coastal environment. And yeah, it seems

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Speaker 7: to be heading in the right direction.

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Speaker 3: Neil Cockatt, thank you very much. Indeed, vice president of

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Speaker 3: operatations at some Barley Lakes. Interesting to see just how

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Speaker 3: big the developments in that part of South Africa are

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Speaker 3: at the moment seven o two Stephen.

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Speaker 2: Email him on Stephen at seven oh two dot co

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Speaker 2: dot z.

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Speaker 9: Well.

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Speaker 3: I suppose one of the standout features of the year

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Speaker 3: has been developments around cryptocurrent season. What I suppose you

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Speaker 3: would see is the sort of accelerated mainstreaming of crypto,

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Speaker 3: and I would imagine one of the big reasons for

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Speaker 3: that is the sort of crypto friendly attitude of the

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Speaker 3: Trump administration. CHRYSTODVTT is the country manager for South Africa

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Speaker 3: for Luno Crysto. Good evening, a big year for crypto.

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Speaker 3: What do you think has really been driving the sort

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Speaker 3: of main streaming process. Is it mainly because of what's

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Speaker 3: happening in the.

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Speaker 10: US, Stephen, Thank you for having me. Yes, twenty twenty

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Speaker 10: five has been quite a tremendous year for the crypto.

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Speaker 10: In the story, I think there's a few things that

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Speaker 10: we can see that is actually driving this momentum that

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Speaker 10: the industry is hang. I mean, yes, we saw with

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Speaker 10: the inauguration of Trump in January there was a lot

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Speaker 10: of excitement. Bitcoin actually reached its all time high, and

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Speaker 10: there was a lot of pro crypto regulations falling into

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Speaker 10: place in the US. This was obviously a further by

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Speaker 10: the crypto or the Bitcoin spot ets, but were listed

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Speaker 10: already in twenty twenty four and in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 10: we saw this continuation of influence capital institutional capital into

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Speaker 10: the market. So a lot of maturity happening in this space,

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Speaker 10: and I.

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Speaker 11: Think has really driven a lot of the optism but

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Speaker 11: also the level of understanding and acceptance of crypto as

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Speaker 11: I always want to go as far as to.

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Speaker 10: Say as a mainstream asset class, so to speak.

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Speaker 3: People will have different views on the US government, but

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Speaker 3: some companies JP Morgan or Visa have a certain cachet

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Speaker 3: about them, a certain kind of reputation. The fact that

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Speaker 3: they're getting more involved does that help? I mean it

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Speaker 3: must be make more people think again, the sort of

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Speaker 3: crypto haters, Christ, they must think, well, I mean, if

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Speaker 3: JP Morgan's doing it, why shouldn't I.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, that's right, And I think we see that across

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Speaker 10: the board. I think it starts with, you know, having

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Speaker 10: a government or administration that understands that the crypto industry

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Speaker 10: and crypto assets are here to stay, and then creating

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Speaker 10: a regulatory framework. It makes it possible for these asset class,

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Speaker 10: or this asset class to to be affected. South Africa,

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Speaker 10: you know the do no Discovery bank offership.

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Speaker 3: Christ. I'm just going to ask you to move around

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Speaker 3: a little bit on that line as we try and

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Speaker 3: just improve the reception we do on here what you're

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Speaker 3: actually trying to say. I'm not sure why the phone

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Speaker 3: line is going like that. I think perhaps taking us

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Speaker 3: like the early holiday might be the reason. I think

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Speaker 3: that's a trium now, Chris, so we were talking about

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Speaker 3: you were talking about the Discovery Bank crypto deal.

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Speaker 10: That's right, Yeah, So I think with the Lunar and

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Speaker 10: Discovery Bank partnership, this further signals that, you know, broader

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Speaker 10: institutions are looking to crypto and the crypto apset class

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Speaker 10: and they are seeing that, you know, there's there's a

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Speaker 10: willingness for this to be adopted in the broader space,

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Speaker 10: and that is really driving and fueling the optimism that

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Speaker 10: we're seeing.

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Speaker 3: I know you believe that our authorities are falling slightly behind,

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Speaker 3: I must say in our country, considering the huge inequality

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Speaker 3: that we have the fact that so many people are

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Speaker 3: sort of taking advantage of any way through online scams

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Speaker 3: and things which often claim to be crypto but aren't,

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Speaker 3: I can imagine their conservatism. Is there a cost to

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Speaker 3: being too conservative in this area?

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Speaker 11: There is?

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Speaker 10: And I think you know we one has to look

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Speaker 10: at it from what is the purpose of regulation, why

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Speaker 10: is regulation needed, and what does it serve? So first

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Speaker 10: and foremost, regulation is needed to protect consumers and to

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Speaker 10: create an environment where consumers can safely invest into an

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Speaker 10: asset class. I think where we where heaps and bounds

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Speaker 10: ahead of many other countries is the way that we

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Speaker 10: regulated cryptocurrency. Now, there's a lot of arguments out there

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Speaker 10: at the state that the fact that South Africa was

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Speaker 10: added to the gray list accelerated the regulation of crypto

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Speaker 10: assets in the market, But I think we now are

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Speaker 10: at a point where we risk falling behind and we

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Speaker 10: need to look at further regulation that's needed to drive

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Speaker 10: further adoption. And one key point here is how crypto

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Speaker 10: assets can be included in collective investment schemes. So South Africa,

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Speaker 10: this is currently not possible, but if you look across

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Speaker 10: the pond to the US, what they're doing over there,

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Speaker 10: they're making it.

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Speaker 9: Possible for pension plans to allocate a certain percentage of

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Speaker 9: their capital to crypto assets, and I think they're laying

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Speaker 9: the foundations for one to three percent of that allocation

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Speaker 9: to take place.

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Speaker 10: So this is the kind of the development that we

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Speaker 10: need to continue in South Africa for crypto assets to

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Speaker 10: be more broadly accepted and incorporated into the mainstream financial ecosystem.

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Speaker 3: Christer Devett thanks very much. Indeed, the South Africa country

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Speaker 3: manager at LUNO. The Money Show, the Market Rudy Vunder

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Speaker 3: Mavis Portvaluo manager advice works really good. Evening positive inflation

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Speaker 3: numbers in the US much lower than predicted.

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Speaker 12: Evening, Stephen, Yes, information came in, give you two point

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Speaker 12: seven percent market expected quite significantly higher numbers of three

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Speaker 12: point one percent. I think it has taken a lot

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Speaker 12: of people by surprise. So yes, at the stage of

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Speaker 12: positive reaction in the US markets on the back of that,

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Speaker 12: I think everyone is hopeful that these sort of inflation

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Speaker 12: numbers lost. I'm not entirely converced that that will be

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Speaker 12: the case.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is the problem with US inflation, isn't

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Speaker 3: it is that normal economics, let's call it my economics,

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Speaker 3: would suggest that at some point, if you charge more

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Speaker 3: for things, inflation will go up, and that's what traffs do.

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Speaker 12: Yes, well, there's I think there's a number of things

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Speaker 12: that potentially have an impact. But yes, certainly, I mean

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Speaker 12: when we would have expected that the tariffs would have

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Speaker 12: a bigger impact on inflation. The other part of the

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Speaker 12: concern is that there's a massive solar and debt issue

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Speaker 12: in the US, not only in the US, also in

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Speaker 12: the world as well, but enormous amounts of debt issuance

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Speaker 12: that need to be funded, and there's a sort of

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Speaker 12: overhang of temptation that at some stage that will be

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Speaker 12: funded via the process of sort of money printing, which

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Speaker 12: which also significantly drives inflation. So so both of those

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Speaker 12: are vulnerabilities for inflation going forward, and it is somewhat

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Speaker 12: of a suppose that it's gone in the right direction

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Speaker 12: for the moment.

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Speaker 3: Our domestic environment, so many people very bullish for next year,

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Speaker 3: all sorts of suggestions. Gold at five thousand dollars. South

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Speaker 3: Africa going to power ahead for various reasons. The market

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Speaker 3: will sort of catch up to underpriced the stocks on

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Speaker 3: the JC are you as polished as the rest of them.

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Speaker 3: It's dorctly.

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Speaker 12: Our market is cheap, and there's no doubt that compared

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Speaker 12: to the rest of the world, we were very very

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Speaker 12: cheap at the starge. I think a lot of people

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Speaker 12: have been taken by as far as as to the

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Speaker 12: extent of the positive benefits of the higher precious metal process.

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Speaker 12: You know, it's obvious that the mining companies involved or

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Speaker 12: will be big beneficiaries, but I don't know that everybody

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Speaker 12: expected the benefits to our terms of trade. You know,

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Speaker 12: so effectively that the value of our exports increased very

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Speaker 12: significantly relative to the value of our imports. And that's

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Speaker 12: led along with a week dollar, but as has led

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Speaker 12: to the rand strengthening quite meaningfully. It's also led to

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Speaker 12: increased tax tax influence, which means we're less pressure to

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Speaker 12: issue additional data, so our DAT to GDP numbers can

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Speaker 12: can look a lot more healthy under these circumstances. So

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Speaker 12: those have been massive beneficiaries. And so Africa has come

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Speaker 12: off a very very low base from an economic growth perspective,

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Speaker 12: and largely over the lost decade or two we've mainly

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Speaker 12: seen sort of stagnation. But the fact that we've got

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Speaker 12: so much less loaturing just at the moment our ports

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Speaker 12: and railways probably are operating slightly better. Those are all

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Speaker 12: incremental benefits and if we can keep down that road

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Speaker 12: we will find that our market is cheap. I think

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Speaker 12: we've got really good management in South Africa who've been

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Speaker 12: very conservative over a long time, they've managed the balance

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Speaker 12: sheets of domestic companies very conservatively. So just a tiny

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Speaker 12: pick up in economic growth I think can lead to

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Speaker 12: a further rewriting of domestic shap process.

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Speaker 3: And as it, do you worry. I mean, we are

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Speaker 3: becoming slightly less coupled to the US economy and slightly

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Speaker 3: more coupled to the Chinese economy. But if there are

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Speaker 3: big developments in the US next year, I presume that

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Speaker 3: will have an impact on US. It quite good all

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Speaker 3: around them.

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Speaker 12: And if the US does have a reasonable growth next

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Speaker 12: year and impleasant stays at a low levels, that would

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Speaker 12: be a positive impact and everybody. It would make the

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Speaker 12: cost of capital for other countries cheaper as well. And

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Speaker 12: greater demand generally in the world is a good thing.

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Speaker 12: If we're going to see volatility there, I don't think

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Speaker 12: that we would avoided the fallout. Asset prices are vulnerable

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Speaker 12: to volatility. As I mentioned, our asset prices are significantly

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Speaker 12: cheaper relative to our long term Our long term averages

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Speaker 12: are suppris and thinks racials are probably thirty percent cheaper

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Speaker 12: than they normally are, whereas the US is probably thirty

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Speaker 12: percent more expensive and I think that the cheapness does

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Speaker 12: of for some sort of cushion of protection.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much, indeed, really to appreciate that. Rudy

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Speaker 3: for amva's portfolio manager at Advice Work just gone six thirty.

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Speaker 5: The Laney Show on seven Monday to Friday, six to

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Speaker 5: aps twenty two minutes to seven or don't forget your

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Speaker 5: WhatsApp voice notes on whether you had a Christmas party

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Speaker 5: at work, whether you enjoyed it, and whether it suggested

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Speaker 5: management that they should do it again.

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Speaker 3: Oh seven two, seven oh two one seven oh two.

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Speaker 3: Saw a report a couple of hours ago. It was

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Speaker 3: on Business Live website Business Day by Natasha Marion, someone

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Speaker 3: I reported with for many, many years, and she is

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Speaker 3: reporting that NUMSA, the National Union of Metal Workers of

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Speaker 3: South Africa, is suggesting that very carefully it should consider

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Speaker 3: rejoining KASATU, the Congress of South African Trade Unions. And

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Speaker 3: I remember, I'm sure you do, but I remember reporting

438
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 3: on it at the time. I think it was twenty

439
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 3: fourteen or so when NUMSA was eventually expelled from KASATU,

440
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: and their reason at the time was that they Kasatu's

441
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: reason at the time was that they refused to actually

442
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 3: support the A and C. So much has changed since then,

443
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 3: Kasatu seems to really be much weaker than it was.

444
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 3: Certainly lost a lot of members when NUMSA left, but

445
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 3: has lost members since then. I would just say that

446
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 3: from a worker point of view, in terms of negotiation, wages,

447
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 3: political power, a unified federation with NUMSA in it would

448
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 3: make a lot more sense to me than being as

449
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 3: divided as they are now. And I know as williamsy

450
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 3: Mvavi runs staff too, which is sort of Numpas's federation,

451
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 3: it doesn't have quite the same have but to join

452
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 3: all of these back again would to me make a

453
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 3: lot of sense. And also just by the way around

454
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 3: the world, unions often push for political change constitutionally and

455
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 3: often stand up for constitutionalism because they know what happens

456
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 3: when bosses are able to break the rules, and that

457
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 3: it's workers who suffer. That's the argument they will make.

458
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: I left to their members as well, you have to

459
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 3: follow the rules otherwise the bosses win in the end.

460
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 3: So I'm going to watch this process very closely, but

461
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: sure it's going to be a long process to get

462
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 3: NUMSA back into Kasatu. If that's our thing's end, what.

463
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: To Stephen on seven to two seven two one seven

464
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 2: oh two.

465
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 3: Well, of course we've been talking about cryptocurrencies and Ross, saying, look, Stephen,

466
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 3: if you read the original bitcoin white paper I have

467
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 3: to confess I haven't, you will see that bitcoin is

468
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 3: not designed to be an asset. It's a transactional token.

469
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 3: It's just that it works on the consent of those

470
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 3: who invest time into taking part they know, governmental, corporate entities.

471
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 3: It was never intended as an investment in ROSS. I

472
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 3: know that's true, and that's one of the great criticisms

473
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 3: When people say should I put money into bitcoin or gold?

474
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 3: The criticism comes back there's no yield, there's no dividend,

475
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 3: in other words, and there's sort of what are you

476
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: putting your money actually into. All you're putting it into

477
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 3: is a promise that it will be worth more in

478
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 3: the future. That's enough for many people, as we've seen

479
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 3: with the price of but Gwenan of course the price

480
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 3: of gold. But the issue around yield still, I suppose,

481
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 3: remains the thing that still I think underlies some of

482
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 3: my skepticism. And I am the sort of what I

483
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 3: would call a cryptoskeptic light that makes any sense whatsoever

484
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 3: is that it still It's been explained to me about

485
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: seventeen different times by about nineteen different people, and there

486
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 3: are still things that I find difficult to kind of understand. Now,

487
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 3: other people who are investing in it, they just be

488
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 3: cleverer than me. That's fine, But I think for many

489
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 3: people that's that skepticism around it simply comes from that

490
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: one simple fact. Fourteen minutes to seven The Lanely Show.

491
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 4: With Stephen Krudis live on ninety two point seven and

492
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 4: one O six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

493
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

494
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 3: Well confirmation net yesterday from the board of Warner Brothers

495
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: Discovery their borders rejecting the option of being bought by

496
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 3: Paramount Skull Dance on the board actually saying Paramount has

497
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: the phrase they used was consistently misled shareholders of Warner Brothers. Instead,

498
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 3: they want to go ahead with a merger deal with Netflix.

499
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: Netflix would be able to add a huge amount of

500
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 3: content to their library, which I don't know if you

501
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 3: know this is already massive. Duncan McLeod's founder and editor

502
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: at tech Central, Duncan Good evening the statement by Warner

503
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 3: Brothers that Paramount has consistently misled their shareholders. I mean,

504
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 3: they're making it pretty clear they really don't want to

505
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 3: be taken over.

506
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 13: Well, I certainly don't want to be taken over by Paramount.

507
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 13: It seems to rest on the financial support that the

508
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,239
Speaker 13: Paramount's guide on the deal has and the fact that

509
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 13: Larry Ellison, who's the perman of Oracle and the father

510
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 13: of David Ellison, who's the guy from Paramount who runs Paramount,

511
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 13: who's pursuing this deal, not providing a full one hundred

512
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 13: percent surety against against the offer price of one hundred

513
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 13: and eight billion dollars, huge amount of money, and it

514
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 13: seems to be turning on that. And it seems that

515
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 13: the Netflix offer, and I'm maybe explaining this a little badly,

516
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 13: but the Netflix offer, according to the Warner Brothers board,

517
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 13: seems to be more stable, if that's the right word.

518
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 13: And they worried that the Paramount deal, if they were

519
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 13: to pursue that might actually not happen if there was

520
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 13: a problem with one of the funders, if I understand

521
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 13: it correctly. But so, the Warner Brothers board is very

522
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 13: very very much more in on the Netflix transaction.

523
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 3: I mean, certainly I can understand. Someone can say, look,

524
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 3: if you do X, Y and Z, you will get

525
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: this amount of money, but you will get more if

526
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: you do many more things for me, and you you

527
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: still think, well, maybe that's not all going to happen.

528
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: And Netflix is clearly a more certain thing. But Netflix

529
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 3: is also more of a mergon. I presume that Warner

530
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: Brothers would be able to retain a little bit more

531
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 3: of economy, whereas Paramounts would be a biot and at

532
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 3: this stage a hostile takeover.

533
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 13: Effectively, I guess.

534
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 14: So.

535
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, there's the channels as well, which which brings an

536
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 13: interesting political and regulatory angle into all of this. Of course,

537
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 13: Warner Brothers owns a CNN, and we've heard remarks from

538
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 13: US President Donald Trump that indicates that he is very

539
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 13: interested in the fate of CNN and whose hands it

540
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 13: ends up there now, we know that that Larry Ellison

541
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 13: and Allison's are supporters of the Republican Party uh and

542
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 13: possibly of Trump himself, so he may want to see

543
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 13: CNN in the hands of allies, hoping perhaps that CNN's

544
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 13: plant becomes less liberal and has more conservative So that's

545
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 13: the other interesting aspect of this, and Fumper may be

546
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 13: more supportive of a paramount transaction than a than A

547
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 13: than a Netflix transaction. I don't how that's going to

548
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 13: play out from a regulatory perspective or whether it will

549
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 13: influence the decisions of how the steel may go in

550
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 13: the end, but it is an interesting one to keep

551
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 13: an eye on. And certainly, when Trump was asked about

552
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 13: this the other day, he made it very clear that

553
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 13: his interest lies in CNN in his future.

554
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: Well, if you consider what's happened with CBS News and

555
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: that very wise, who rarely is Trump supporters now the

556
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: editor in chief, and she she had a history of

557
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 3: being very sort of conservative before, that would make sense.

558
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 3: The thing is, though, if you're the Ellisons, you're spending

559
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: an absolute fortune and probably the destroying quite a lot

560
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 3: of the value that CNN has built up over the

561
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: years by doing that, just to show your fealty to

562
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: someone who's only got three years left.

563
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, it's an interesting point. I mean, why do these

564
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 13: billionaires buy media companies?

565
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 8: What is it?

566
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,479
Speaker 13: What does it get them? I presume they look at

567
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 13: it to buy influence And to you know, why did

568
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 13: Dodge based off by the Washington Post? It does it

569
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 13: buy the influence I don't know. There may be ego

570
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 13: at play here, but you know why white billionaires one

571
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 13: of ourn media companies. That's that's a question. I don't

572
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 13: think I fully understand.

573
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 3: No sure if Netflix, so Netflix already is a huge company,

574
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: is a huge library, has what you would call narratives

575
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: sort of streaming, not quite dominance, but as the strongest player.

576
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 3: Warner Brothers would give them a huge amount more content

577
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 3: and possibly make their positions so much stronger.

578
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 13: It would, it would, and you know, the plastic gift

579
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,479
Speaker 13: posts must regulated, and I think it's going to be

580
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 13: investigated quite closely, including in the European Union. It would

581
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 13: make Netflix, which is already the largest streaming player on Earth,

582
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 13: that much bigger, that much more dominant, And of course

583
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 13: they get access to to HBO content, which is some

584
00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 13: of the most prized premium entertainment content around. So no

585
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 13: doubt about it, they will become a very powerful player

586
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 13: in the in the media game, which is interesting for

587
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 13: a company that started started out life as a DVD

588
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 13: mail that they really have transformed themselves into a significant

589
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 13: major player in the in the global media industry, and this,

590
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 13: no doubt, would cement their position as one of the

591
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 13: world's biggest media players.

592
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 3: Well, I mean Warner Brothers themselves, go are there over

593
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 3: one hundred years old. It's amazing they're still a player now.

594
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 13: It is indeed, big, big, big player, huge content library

595
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 13: can be interesting to see. I mean, it just shows

596
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 13: how the world has changed and how it's shifted shift.

597
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 13: The world has shifted away from your traditional sort of

598
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 13: linear television to to on demand streaming over the internet.

599
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 13: You know, a transaction like this would have been unthinkable

600
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 13: ten years ago. And and here's the Internet upstart buying

601
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 13: one of the legendary companies in the media space. It

602
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 13: just shows you how much the world has had shifted

603
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 13: and and I think it also probably just shows how much,

604
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 13: you know, multi choice is going to have to change

605
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 13: in the coming years, as as as consumers move increasingly

606
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 13: from linear television and watching content when the broadcasters they

607
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 13: are against broadcasters to consumer if consumers having the power

608
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 13: to watch content when they choose.

609
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 3: Thankan McLeod, Thank you, founder and editor at tech Central.

610
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 3: Really appreciate the time.

611
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 15: The Money Show with Stewen Croutez is brought to you

612
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 15: by absur CIB proud sole leader Ranger and Infrastructure Finance

613
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 15: structuring agent of the South African National Treasuries eleven point

614
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 15: eight billion rare Infrastructure and Development Finance Bond.

615
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 3: Well over the last couple of months have been one

616
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: or two questions around the strategy and the leadership of

617
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: some of the people who make decisions in corporate essays.

618
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: So for a long time, certainly almost as long as

619
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 3: I can remember, there's been this discussion about why firms

620
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: are not investing in South Africa, especially as their cash

621
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: piles of over a trillion rant or one and a

622
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 3: half trillion round, which suggests companies are not investing in growth.

623
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 3: Last week, but Surprised said it was spending nearly ten

624
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: billion round on buying the supermarket chain indie Z and

625
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 3: Central Europe. And the question then becomes, why would that

626
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: be a better option than growing your business here. Luke

627
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: Andrews is a strategy advisor also at the Hindi Business School.

628
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 3: Luke ad evening, you've been thinking about this. You suggest

629
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 3: there may be you call it a strategic leadership problem.

630
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 3: Why do you believe that?

631
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 16: Thanks Evan, thanks for having me so, I'm not sure

632
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 16: so much of a problem, but I'm definitely seeing amongst

633
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 16: my clients, but Also in some of the classes I

634
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 16: teach a real challenge with thinking definitely about the world.

635
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 16: I call it the what if questions of strategy rather

636
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 16: than what is the questions of planning. You know, we're

637
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 16: very comfortable to look at quarterly and investments and things

638
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 16: like that, but we really struggle to make decisions amidst

639
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 16: uncertainty and thinking about what the world could be if

640
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 16: we did something different. And that's really the challenge that

641
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 16: I see a lot of boardrooms up and down the country,

642
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 16: and even earlier this week, I was talking to a

643
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 16: client and working on their strategy for two years, Stephen,

644
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 16: because they need the fact before they make pay decisions.

645
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 16: But the world has moved on in those two years.

646
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 16: So it's just a really interesting dynamic with seeing playing out.

647
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 16: Is it a problem maybe, and now these are questions

648
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 16: we need to think about.

649
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 3: I mean, it could also just be so it's not

650
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 3: a leadership issue. It might just be an environment issue

651
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 3: that is actually very difficult to grow many businesses in

652
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 3: South Africa because the economy itself isn't growing.

653
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 16: I take that, Stephen, and and it's something I hear often,

654
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 16: but I think that South Africa is a country with

655
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 16: an enormous opportunity and tap need for a lot of consumers.

656
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 16: So look at some of our best kind of success factors.

657
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 16: So it's a capitech kind of targeting a part of

658
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 16: the market which which really previously was underserved or at

659
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 16: least served in a way which was far too expensive

660
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 16: to serve. Think about how COVID, which was a massive

661
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 16: crisis right of all us globally, kind of accelerated Checkers

662
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 16: sixty sixty as a as a viable alternative way of

663
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 16: doing things. And this is the type of imagination that

664
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 16: I'm talking about. Time Bank is you know, another great

665
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 16: example of servicing a need that's been unmet.

666
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 11: So is it.

667
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 16: Difficult to grow? Or our investment decisions inherently conservative focused

668
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 16: on the parts of the market which feel comfortable, which

669
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 16: feels safe, And is that then what leads companies into

670
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 16: massive investment decisions like into Australia with Woolworths or as

671
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 16: we've seen with mister Price, which to be honest, I'm

672
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 16: horrified about and I'm preparing my NBA case study as

673
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 16: we speak for for use in two years time, okay,

674
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 16: And a conservative issue that we are we are facing

675
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 16: rather than a cultural imagination which we need to get

676
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 16: scripts with.

677
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 3: This might sound very aggressive to them, but another way

678
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 3: of looking at it could just be that the people

679
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 3: who manage these companies are more comfortable in a middle

680
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 3: class environment because that's where they come from and that's

681
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 3: what they know, and therefore they don't go into the

682
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: rest of the country, which is where the opportunities really are.

683
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 3: I mean, that would be quite a crude way of

684
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: looking at it, but that might be one way to

685
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 3: understand this.

686
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 16: Absolutely one way to think about it. But I think

687
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 16: there's also not an aspect to think about it. But

688
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 16: and then this actually came quite apparent with a class

689
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 16: I taught a couple of weeks ago. Actually, when we

690
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 16: were thinking about well, what would I asked my students

691
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 16: what would have to be true for you to take

692
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 16: a certain decision over over another decision. It's a really

693
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 16: powerful question, and I find a lot of people are thinking,

694
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 16: what is true. We can't pssibly go into this new

695
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 16: country because the infrastructure is not there, or the supply

696
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 16: chain we need is not there. As I said, well,

697
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 16: what would have to be true?

698
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 11: Well?

699
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 3: Could you build it?

700
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 16: Could you be the first mover to create such an

701
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 16: infrastructure upon which you thrive and your ecosystem thrives. That's

702
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 16: the imagination question that we really need to get to

703
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 16: grips of what would have to be true, not what

704
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 16: is true, you know, relying on on hypothesis rather than

705
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 16: forecasts a real change in the way we think and

706
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 16: how leadership kind of thinks about these kind of strategic problems.

707
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 3: Is there an issue with maybe a lack of investment

708
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 3: in sort of research and development and that limits people's

709
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 3: options in that people aren't necessarily investing in more options

710
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 3: for the future.

711
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think I think so, and I think so.

712
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 16: I don't and you and I don't see kind of

713
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 16: extensive investment into into R and D, and you see

714
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 16: a lot of CAPEX going more into kind of risk

715
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 16: management and sustaining the business of today or these really

716
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 16: big acquisitions which often sit on quite shaky kind of

717
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 16: strategic wressionale. In my personal opinion, the same R and

718
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 16: D as R and D for me, goes hand in

719
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 16: hand with kind of innovation as well. So innovation teams

720
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 16: really investing into kind of next generation products and propositions

721
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 16: that you know, you need to get through about fifty

722
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 16: before you find one which is a real gem and

723
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 16: I think that there's a real there's a there's a

724
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 16: way in which some companies I've seen have done this

725
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 16: really well, and there are some where it's just been

726
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 16: a formula for for failure. Actually the corporate antibodies attack

727
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 16: new ideas as soon as they emerge, or or CFOs

728
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 16: need some kind of guaranteed return in five years, and

729
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 16: that and that is that is a real challenge for

730
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 16: for building the kind.

731
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 3: Of future of art.

732
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 16: Are very strong companies, but companies that are likely to

733
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 16: run out of steem if they don't start to think differently.

734
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 3: Luke Andrews, thank you. Luke's a strategy advisor and a

735
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 3: program director at the Henless Busney at the Henley Business School,

736
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 3: Africa's New Executive Development Program. To appreciate the timing with

737
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: The Money Show at seven o'clock.

738
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

739
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 1: oh two, Let's walk little.

740
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Crotez is brought to you

741
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 3: by Abscess cib Proud Sole Lead Arrangement Infrastructure Finance Structuring

742
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 3: Agent of the South African National Treasuries eleven point eight

743
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: billion Round Infrastructure and Development Finance bond seven minutes after seven,

744
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 3: the time plenty to come. In the next little while,

745
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 3: we'll talk about why it is you've bought what you

746
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 3: bought online and how AI is to blame. It's all

747
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 3: about nudges and winks and things like that, and trust me,

748
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: it really does work. So you pu Mallella Zoondie has

749
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 3: been looking at this, and you do see how people

750
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: learn your behavior. They know what you're going to do,

751
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: they know what you think makes you happy, and then

752
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 3: they take advantage of that. That's really what's happening. Blani Balabala,

753
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 3: the founder of the Township Entrepreneurs Agency, will be looking

754
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 3: at during just the head of the holiday season, how

755
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 3: you beat burnout, in other words, how to avoid burnout.

756
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 3: I think an important conversation if you're running a small business,

757
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 3: and you often are the small business, well, that is

758
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: something you need to really be very aware of. So

759
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 3: we'll be talking about that, and then an investment school

760
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 3: just looking at the big trends of the year and

761
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 3: what that means for next year. So you can expect

762
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 3: conversations around gold, platinum, AI, that sort of thing. Some

763
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 3: of the big things that happened this year. I think

764
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 3: there is really quite a lot to look at, and

765
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 3: it's been, i think for investors, for many of them,

766
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 3: a very very successful year, and I think that's what's

767
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 3: made this really so interesting. Good to hear from you

768
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 3: as well. Double one, double A three oh seven two

769
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: two one four four six o five six seven, and

770
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 3: of course voice notes tonight on seven two seven oh

771
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: two one seven oh two.

772
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 4: The Honey Show with Stephen Kruders Live on ninety two

773
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 4: point seven and one six streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

774
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 2: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

775
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 3: Just reflecting a little bit on the conversation we had

776
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 3: at the start of the program, and the other side

777
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 3: of this program really around how there's so much more

778
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 3: money pouring into the Zimbali area in the north coast

779
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,439
Speaker 3: near Durban, and it's just a reflection of so many

780
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 3: other things that we're seeing. You do get a sense

781
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 3: for the first time in a long time that people

782
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 3: are beginning to invest for the future. And I'm just

783
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 3: old enough to remember the kind of what people often

784
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 3: call the imbecy sort of boom. Years he was president.

785
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 3: Things were changing in the country. The economy was moving

786
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 3: along very nicely. Money was pouring in because of how

787
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 3: much demand there was for platinum. There was a big

788
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: sort of commodities boom at the time, and it all

789
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 3: kind of came to an end with the global financial

790
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: crisis from the end of two thousand and seven or

791
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight onwards. And you do wonder, is

792
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 3: South Africa in a position like that? And obviously the

793
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 3: global outlook is very very different, so maybe not. And

794
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 3: also things need to go right. But in the end,

795
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 3: what this keeps coming back to is politics, and that's

796
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,439
Speaker 3: the sort of great risk. Whenever you speak to the

797
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 3: South African bulls, they will say that's the one risk

798
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 3: is politics, and so how do you make sure the

799
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 3: politics is less of a risk? And I suppose there

800
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 3: are a couple of ways to do that, but I

801
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 3: would just say this. It seems to me that as

802
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 3: long as political parties believe that government is slowly going

803
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 3: to deliver, they are going to stay in the coalition.

804
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 3: They will and so you've got to give them an incentive.

805
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 3: And for the moment they have that incentive, there's gonna

806
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 3: be lots of noise that could still be surprises. But

807
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 3: as long as that incentive remains, it doesn't matter what

808
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 3: happens to this leader or that leader, they'll stay in

809
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 3: the coalition and that probably keeps MK in the eff

810
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 3: out for now and almost on their own version. You

811
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 3: can sort of hear that, you know, if you listen

812
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 3: to what they say, if you listen very carefully. So

813
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 3: I do have to wonder if, in fact the big

814
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 3: political risk is receding, and may be receding quite quickly.

815
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 3: So long as the improvements that we see in government continue.

816
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 3: The moment that they stop, well, then something else happens.

817
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 3: But for the moment that would sort of be my

818
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 3: main kind of outlook for the next year. For twenty

819
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 3: twenty six, twenty twenty seven a very different picture. I

820
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,720
Speaker 3: think everything's going to be about the ANC leadership debate,

821
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 3: but certainly for twenty twenty six, I think those processes continue.

822
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 3: BE very interested in your view on Oh seven two

823
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 3: seven two one seven o two some.

824
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 2: Money shall take Thursday.

825
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know if you've bought anything silly online

826
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 3: this year. If you have, you probably have AI to

827
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,879
Speaker 3: thank for it or to blame for it. So South

828
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 3: Africa has received quite a few online shops this year,

829
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 3: and many people are beginning to use AI more and

830
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 3: more to get you to buy something. I've take a

831
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 3: Expertsy FORU Mallella, Zoondie joins us now see put Mallela

832
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 3: Good evening. I mean, I'm used to you going online

833
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 3: and having adverts sort of follow me around for bicycles

834
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 3: or something. How are online shops using AI to keep

835
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 3: some customers and to get you to buy more?

836
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 17: Hello Stephen, Well, this definitely is right, because so do

837
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 17: you sometimes find is that a lot of these platforms

838
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 17: might speak to each other or might actually even go

839
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 17: through your phone because you've clicked okay without reading any

840
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 17: terms and conditions, and you find that you were looking

841
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 17: for something on a social media platform, or you're looking

842
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 17: for something on a search engine, or perhaps you went

843
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 17: on an online on an AI platform to read up

844
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 17: on stuff and then suddenly it starts popping up from

845
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 17: online stores. And also because a lot of these especially

846
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 17: with search engines, they share data and information with their advertisers,

847
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 17: and some of these advertisers would be your e commerce stores.

848
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 17: In fact, a lot of them these days, e commerce

849
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 17: stores where you find that you were searching for bicycles

850
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 17: on a search engine and then the first thing that

851
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 17: pops up is an online store that already knows that

852
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 17: you're trying to read up on a new bicycle. And

853
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 17: then when you even go on a platform, it's like, one,

854
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 17: we have new bicycles too, Do you want to buy it?

855
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 17: Because it already knows you are looking for it on

856
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 17: a search engine.

857
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 3: I mean, if I go into a shop, it's a

858
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 3: stay with bicycles. Shall we a bicycle shop? I'm interested

859
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 3: in buying a bicycle, so there'll be a certain conversion rate.

860
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 3: How many people go from going into the shop to

861
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 3: actually buying it. I presume that what AI is trying

862
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 3: to do is keep that conversion rate very high. Make

863
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 3: it as high as possible when I go online, when

864
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 3: I go to a website.

865
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 17: Oh totally. And also it really needs to be quick

866
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 17: because what research finds is that the longer people take

867
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 17: mudling over things online, like you fill out your trolley,

868
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 17: or you fill up your trolley rather and then you

869
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 17: set a week to see two weeks, you might not

870
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 17: buy a lot of the stuff. That's so that's setting

871
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 17: in a trolley. So that conversion rate needs to happen

872
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 17: very quickly. So they know that if you already are

873
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 17: searching for bicycles and are already looking for information. In

874
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 17: un likeliness, you are considering buying a new one. So

875
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 17: in this to give you as many options as possible,

876
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,399
Speaker 17: it needs to give you what it may think are

877
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 17: the best options for you as as quickly as possible,

878
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 17: so you can then buy as quickly as possible before

879
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 17: you change your mind. So, yes, it's different from a

880
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 17: shop where some people go windows shopping, and especially if

881
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 17: in this case, every time you go online it keeps

882
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 17: on saying hello, look at me. Whereas in the shopping mall,

883
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 17: you live the shopping mall, and you no longer they

884
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 17: in a shop on the side of the road. You've

885
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 17: left that particular vicinity. You'll sing an office when you

886
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 17: go there again in through each time, whereas here, every

887
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 17: time you click on your phone, it's like, we're still here,

888
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 17: by the way, so you might as go want to

889
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 17: purchase the thing you are looking for.

890
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 3: I'm presuming that choppers are using AI too to make

891
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 3: the right decision. This is not just sort of, this

892
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 3: is not just one way. They'll be using it too.

893
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 17: Oh totally. The interesting part is that a lot more

894
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 17: people are now moving forward from your search engines when

895
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 17: they're looking for stuff and they will go to AI

896
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 17: platforms to look for some important detail on whatever it is.

897
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 17: That because of the way AI works, because it collates

898
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 17: information online as opposed to you going on a particular

899
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 17: website to ask the users of that website or what

900
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 17: they think of a particular product, Whereas what an AI

901
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 17: tool would do is to scroll through the Internet, find

902
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 17: some of the views that have been found on the internet,

903
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 17: collate them for you, and then give you information from

904
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 17: what has been collated. And also that's different from a

905
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 17: search engine where you have to go to each indivirtual

906
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 17: website to read up about different things that have been

907
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 17: said about that particular products or to compare, whereas AI

908
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 17: would just put it together. It's in one place and

909
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 17: then it gives you the information. So a lot more

910
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 17: people are starting to use AI in that manner.

911
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 3: I mean obviously, from the moment online setting started, you

912
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 3: would think, well, the malls are going to suffer. How

913
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 3: is that process going? I mean, you go to a mall.

914
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,399
Speaker 3: I was in a mall yesterday. Yes, it's the Christmas season,

915
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 3: it's the busy season. Was a weekday and man and

916
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 3: man it was busy. Oh they're fact.

917
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 17: So this difference from region to region. You know, South

918
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,959
Speaker 17: African shopping malls are still doing well. People are still

919
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 17: going up to going out to buy stuff from and

920
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 17: also I think it's I suppose it's the feel of

921
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 17: what you are buying. And it also depends on what

922
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 17: it is that you are buying from from the mall,

923
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 17: because there are people that might feel like buying certain

924
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 17: products because they think they're going to get a better experience.

925
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 17: They might want to try on clothes when they go

926
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,240
Speaker 17: to a more living though a close up bought's quite

927
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 17: a lot on online platforms as well, so they're still

928
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 17: doing well. Because then you think of online retail in

929
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 17: South Africa. Yes, it's jumped from the one percent it

930
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 17: was five years ago. Through a lot of research that's

931
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 17: been done by multiple organizations places it as about ten

932
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 17: percent at the end of twenty twenty five. So ten

933
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 17: percent is a massive come back to the one percent

934
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 17: it was five years ago, but it's still not big enough.

935
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 17: So the shopping wall is still the preference that South

936
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 17: Africans have there.

937
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 3: I think one of the things about going to a

938
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 3: shop for someone who's you know, old like me, is

939
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 3: I get to look the person in the eye. I

940
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 3: know what I'm buying, I can see it, I know

941
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 3: where I need to go. If there's a problem with it, Well,

942
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 3: the comments, you just don't have that. And there are

943
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 3: so many I mean, there are so many scams, and

944
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 3: I think some people are quite keen on online shopping.

945
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 3: They want to do it. They might be elderly, they're

946
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 3: not very mobile, but they're really very scared of it.

947
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 17: Totally. You see, each platform gives me a different experience when,

948
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 17: for example, if you say you have a problem and

949
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 17: you can take it back and you know who you're

950
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 17: taking you can take it back to, and that could

951
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 17: be one question mark because this platform is on work

952
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 17: the same for some, especially the big ones, they don't

953
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 17: really have issues yet. If you want to return products,

954
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 17: So once you've clicked on check out, you've clicked on

955
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 17: check out, it's going to come to you. You can't

956
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 17: change your mind in that process. But once it gets

957
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 17: to you, you can send it back if it's not

958
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 17: to your liking, if you've changed your mind. I'm on

959
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 17: some of the big ones, but there are probably more

960
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 17: unknown ones, and those are the ones that we probably

961
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 17: should be careful of because, especially if you're buying stuff

962
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 17: through social media platforms, because it's been said that there's

963
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 17: been very many scams that pop up on especially when

964
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 17: it comes to people who are sending stuff through social

965
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 17: media platforms specifically and their online stores. But so each

966
00:51:54,719 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 17: platform works differently, and again it's a case of knowing

967
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 17: and trusting that your money is going to the right place.

968
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 17: You're not going to lose your money. Your money is

969
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 17: going to come back to your account, and that sometimes

970
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 17: is the difference. But sometimes online you can find stuff

971
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 17: you can't get in your territory as well. There are

972
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 17: also online only deals that you can find that you

973
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 17: can't find in the store. Sometimes those are the incentives

974
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 17: and the differences and how they're trying to lure you

975
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 17: not to go to the physical store and to go

976
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 17: online to find it.

977
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 3: I mean, the other thing I find fascinating is how

978
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 3: quick deliveries can be because the career aid the career

979
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 3: companies that sort of are around and part of this ecosystem.

980
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 3: I mean literally, you're at a situation where you order

981
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 3: it on Christmas Eve, if you'll have it for Christmas morning.

982
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 3: You'll pay for that, but you'll get it.

983
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 17: They've become faster than the US, especially in an urban sentence.

984
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 17: We also going need to acknowledge less. In South Africa,

985
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 17: we still have what's been called the digital divide, where

986
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,720
Speaker 17: the urban sentence or the suburbs or areas near to

987
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 17: to cities do a lot better with this than the

988
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 17: areas that are in the outskirts. So it depends on

989
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 17: where the location is. But yes, if you do live

990
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 17: in urban South Africa.

991
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 11: Delivery is quite quick.

992
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 17: But there are people will still live on the outskirts

993
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 17: and still suffer from delivery that might take long, or

994
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 17: they might need to go to a pick up point

995
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 17: in order to get their products because they might not

996
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 17: really have a good enough physical address.

997
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 3: Thank you see Pomolella Zondie, I'll take expert. Really do

998
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 3: appreciate the time tonight on The Money Show. So much

999
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 3: to consider just as the festive season really gets into

1000
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 3: a high year. Twenty minutes after seven The.

1001
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 2: Money Shows Small Business focus.

1002
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 3: And Bilolani Balabala is the founder of the Township Entrepreneurs

1003
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 3: Agency House at Bololani. Good to see you again. You're

1004
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 3: talking about just as we go into the holiday season,

1005
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 3: how you avoid burnout? So important to do if you're

1006
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 3: a small business owner, because I think for many people,

1007
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 3: they'll sort of think, well, if i'm burning out, i'm

1008
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 3: weak man.

1009
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 14: Now an actual fact, I mean, if you're burning out,

1010
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 14: you're not weak. I think you know. The best way.

1011
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 14: I think, at the end of the day, the best

1012
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 14: way to really understand if a person has got true strength,

1013
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 14: especially as a demonstration of their leadership, is being able

1014
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 14: to ask for help. And I think being able to

1015
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 14: harness that power is such an important thing. But I

1016
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 14: guess at the end of the day, I also understand

1017
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 14: the fears on the other side because I think to

1018
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 14: the people around you sort of idolize you, who look

1019
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 14: up to you, even sometimes even close people that you

1020
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 14: call friends. I mean, they take your sign of help

1021
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 14: as a sign of weakness. And I think, which is

1022
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 14: why it becomes very important to then identify the right

1023
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 14: type of people to have around you, so that you

1024
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 14: build a tribe of people that you can be vulnerable with.

1025
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 14: And a tribal people doesn't mean you bring in everyone

1026
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 14: in your circle. It means that you identify that one

1027
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 14: or two individuals that you can actually really truly outpour

1028
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 14: yourself out too. Because you see, the thing about entrepreneurship

1029
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 14: is that it's been overly glamorized, but at the end

1030
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 14: of the day, it's the toughest thing.

1031
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 3: Do you ever go through.

1032
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 14: I mean, I think I was talking to a bunch

1033
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 14: of entrepreneurs, random ones, not in a group setting over

1034
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 14: the past couple of weeks, and this is the most

1035
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 14: daunting season for them because the individuals who need to

1036
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 14: sign off their payments are not in the office. They

1037
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 14: had a Christmas party and after that, it's all tickets,

1038
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,720
Speaker 14: you know, after the sixteenth, So they're chasing their tails

1039
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 14: and it's the toughest season to find individuals that you

1040
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 14: can actually engage with and open up to. Your know

1041
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 14: is essential to stabilize your mindset.

1042
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I suppose the other thing we must

1043
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 3: remember is that that if there's burnout, if you burn out,

1044
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 3: it doesn't just cost you, it costs a company to

1045
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 3: it affects many different things.

1046
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 14: No, it definitely does. I mean it's a myriad of

1047
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 14: different things that get affected. I mean from point decision

1048
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 14: making to just having a temper and anger and every

1049
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 14: single thing around you. So it really just really affects you.

1050
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 14: Because at the end of the day, what ends up

1051
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 14: at what ends up happening, is that you end up

1052
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 14: lashing out, and you end up acting out purely because

1053
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 14: one doesn't have a good control and a grapple over

1054
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 14: what's actually happening to them in that particular moment. So

1055
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 14: what we now think that we can contain everyone around

1056
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,879
Speaker 14: us feels and experiences it, but in the negative light

1057
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 14: and in the negative sense and the impact of it.

1058
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 14: Then they comes speak because it ends up even affecting

1059
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 14: the existing relationship that you have with your customers.

1060
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 3: You've got to, you know, if you want to protect

1061
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 3: your business. I mean at some point you also have

1062
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 3: to protect your your mental health and you've got to

1063
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 3: You've got to manage that. If that goes, that business

1064
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 3: goes too. Yeah, No, definitely.

1065
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 14: I mean, at the end of the day, what is

1066
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 14: the business without sober founder? And I think sober and

1067
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,879
Speaker 14: sober in mind right, because at the end of the day,

1068
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 14: the founders, the visionaries, the person who carries the business

1069
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 14: over the line, even though you've got team members at

1070
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 14: the end of the day, Which is why I think

1071
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 14: when you read a book by think by the gentleman

1072
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 14: called Mark Rober breaks it down into three parts. The

1073
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 14: entrepreneurs bookn dump into the managerial, the technical, as well

1074
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 14: as the the entrepreneur and the visionary and the founder,

1075
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 14: which is why then it becomes very critical and key

1076
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 14: for the founder to have a sober and stable management

1077
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 14: of their stress levels and the environment that they have

1078
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 14: so that your output becomes the most sober output, so

1079
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 14: that you're able to bring your team along for the journey.

1080
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 3: And physical energy and you know, when you're running a business,

1081
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 3: you're doing things, I mean, your your capass get things done,

1082
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 3: like you're getting things done.

1083
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 6: Man.

1084
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 3: It's and and that physical energy. How do you protect that?

1085
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 3: You know what you know?

1086
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 14: Quite interestingly enough, I mean there was those a much

1087
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 14: younger me who would have said, ah, you're sleeping, now,

1088
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 14: you're lazy. Nah, I mean it's it's four I M

1089
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 14: you still so so and then you come to learn

1090
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 14: over the years, and I think there used to be

1091
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,959
Speaker 14: slogans like if you rest your ust No, in actual fact,

1092
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 14: if you if you don't rest, you're gonna rest. And

1093
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 14: I think it's being able to harness the power around

1094
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 14: the understanding a couple of things. If you're resting, what

1095
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 14: you're actually doing is that that's very that's very key

1096
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 14: to you being able to generate and come up with

1097
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 14: new and fresh ideas. Sleep in actual factor is not

1098
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 14: laying as sleep as power.

1099
00:57:58,600 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 7: You know.

1100
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 14: One of the key ways in which you and I

1101
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 14: think when you sort of look at it throughout the year,

1102
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 14: because the year is hectic, is that we sort of

1103
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 14: get to December and we rest for a month. But

1104
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 14: then you get into the year, you do nothing about it,

1105
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 14: you don't manage it well, and then Bernard hits you

1106
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 14: way before that December hits you. So which is why

1107
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 14: then what you then do is mitigating factors going into

1108
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 14: the new years. Then go into your calendar and your schedule,

1109
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 14: start to set aside an hour a week or or

1110
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 14: thirteen minutes a day, and that is time for you

1111
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 14: to be productively doing nothing. So this time of the

1112
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 14: year for me, I think is getting things done, in

1113
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 14: doing everything that is not active and everything that is

1114
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 14: productive to one's wholeness and one's spiritual being.

1115
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 3: Is it a good idea to have, you know, to

1116
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 3: use this time maybe to think a little bit about

1117
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 3: setting working hours. I think many entrepreneurs like at the

1118
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 3: moment they're awake, they're kind of on, you know, their

1119
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 3: business y and in fact you do need to have

1120
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 3: other things. I mean, when we do our shapeshifted segment

1121
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 3: always find it what do you do for fun? It

1122
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: often tells you so much more about a person. It

1123
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 3: is a good idea even as an entrop even if

1124
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 3: the company relies on you to have a set working hours.

1125
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 14: No, no, definitely, I mean doing nothing is in actual

1126
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 14: factor doing something. And I think you know it's getting

1127
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 14: over the guilt of thinking that the natual fact you

1128
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 14: are unproductive if you decide to pull out the time

1129
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 14: from ten am to eleven am, which is largely considered

1130
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 14: highly productive hours, which are work hours for you to

1131
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 14: just sit and go to an ice cream shop. But

1132
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 14: the beautiful ripple, the ripple effect, or the takeaway from

1133
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,479
Speaker 14: that is that you become a more cautious and more

1134
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 14: plugged in, a more aware founder and a business owner.

1135
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 14: So the set working hours work, but the reality of

1136
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 14: it in most cases that depending on the top of

1137
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 14: business and the industry that you're in, that might not.

1138
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 3: Necessarily be mannimal.

1139
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 14: So we're not saying that set you're hours every single day,

1140
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 14: but we're saying that we deliberate and cautious on where

1141
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 14: in the week you're going to set those hours so

1142
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 14: that you're able to recharge.

1143
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 3: And I mean, you know, doing that recharge, making it intentional,

1144
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 3: and I suppose for a lot of people just finding

1145
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 3: a pause button. I mean, isn't that the thing that

1146
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 3: you need? So no, it definitely is.

1147
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 14: Because I think we've been you know, I think we've

1148
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 14: fallen into the illusion that says productivity is within a

1149
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 14: certain certain hours in the day. I think you need

1150
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 14: to find your sweet spot some individuals. I think what

1151
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 14: you sort of find in the mapping artists through their

1152
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 14: archetypes is that the individual's in national factor is productive

1153
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 14: between four to ten pa am each and every day.

1154
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 14: So you need to find your productive sweet spots in

1155
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 14: line with when your customers are most active, so that

1156
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 14: you're able to then deliver the most outward. It's not

1157
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 14: about following the status quo of what productivity is, but

1158
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 14: the question is are we busy or are we actually

1159
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 14: being productive?

1160
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 3: Bladlani, thanks so much and thanks for everything this year.

1161
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 3: Blaerlani Balabala is the founder of the Township Entrepreneurs Agency.

1162
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 3: Twenty eight minutes after seven.

1163
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: The Money Show Investment School.

1164
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 3: What time to have a look at what happened in

1165
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. The things that I suppose surprised us.

1166
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 3: For many of it's the scale of the change that

1167
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 3: surprised us, and to have a look forward to next

1168
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 3: year to see what the trends of this year really

1169
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 3: hold for next year. Gary Boyson's portfolio manager, director at

1170
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 3: rand Swiss. Scary, good evening. Thanks for coming into and

1171
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 3: I'd really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me on

1172
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 3: the show. What a year it's been, do you know?

1173
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,479
Speaker 3: It has? And I would just start off by saying

1174
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 3: that for me, this is the first full year of

1175
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 3: watching financial markets as closely as I have been, and

1176
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 3: what a great year to be doing it, because it's

1177
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,919
Speaker 3: been i think for most people in South Africa very

1178
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 3: very positive, which has not been the case before.

1179
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:33,439
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1180
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 8: Absolutely, I mean South Africa I think is the biggest surprise.

1181
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 8: So I was thinking back to what was it like

1182
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 8: in January, Yeah, you know, twenty twenty five, and I mean,

1183
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 8: you know, if we look at the US, we just

1184
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 8: had you know, the Trump election. We had a huge

1185
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 8: optimism around you know, the American exceptionalism and the dollar

1186
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 8: index at like one hundred and ten, and you know,

1187
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 8: you got the sense that like everything was unstoppable, and

1188
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 8: then suddenly we had liberal Day. I mean South Africa

1189
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 8: was obviously, Yeah, the G twenty at that stage, we

1190
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 8: continued to poke the US and I a little bit,

1191
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 8: and suddenly we had Liberation Day tariffs and you know,

1192
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 8: Trump with his border saying like this is how I'm

1193
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 8: allocating it formulas that didn't really make sense. Market correction

1194
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 8: of twenty percent down, an amazing buying opportunity in high

1195
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 8: tight and then and then a strong rally through the

1196
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 8: rest of the year, and none rallying stronger than the

1197
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 8: South African the South African market. So I had a

1198
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 8: look at the total return figures and I mean it's

1199
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 8: it's absolutely spectacular. So the S and P five hundred.

1200
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 8: If you look at total return in US dollars, fifteen

1201
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 8: point seven percent, South African market rebased the US dollars,

1202
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 8: So we're comparing apples with apples. Yeah, total return sixty

1203
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 8: five percent, sixty.

1204
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 3: Sixty five Wow, Like that's amazing. I mean, that's got

1205
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 3: to be one of the best years on record. I mean,

1206
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 3: you'd have to go back to an eight hundred dollars

1207
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 3: gold price for that.

1208
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 8: I can't. I mean, I've been in financial markets, what

1209
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 8: almost twenty years. It's I've never seen a year like

1210
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 8: this since Africa. It has been, but it is also

1211
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 8: it's interesting, it's been very very narrow as well. So

1212
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 8: if you if you look at the all share index,

1213
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 8: so you kind of stop out the kind of major

1214
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 8: liquid companies and I look at the nine out of

1215
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 8: ten top performing companies, So Banya stal Water the winner

1216
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 8: by a long way, two hundred and eighty six percent

1217
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 8: up for the year. Then we've got Anglo Gold, Northern,

1218
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 8: the already gold, Pan, aff Goldfields, Implats, Volterra, Harmony, all

1219
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 8: platinum and gold. Those are the top nine, all of

1220
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 8: them above one hundred percent. Of the worst is Harmony,

1221
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 8: which has been buying copper mining companies as well, up

1222
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 8: one hundred and thirty one percent. The first Spark that

1223
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 8: is not a precious metal miner MTN only up eighty four.

1224
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 3: So it's pretty good.

1225
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 8: But you can see that a lot of that heavy

1226
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 8: lifting was done by the commodity complex. It was done

1227
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 8: by the re rating that we've seen in gold and

1228
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 8: the rerate rating that we've seen in platinum.

1229
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 3: We're going to come to platinum and the moment. But

1230
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 3: at the start of the year, so we could see

1231
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 3: gold was strong and I remember last year. You know,

1232
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 3: we're getting quite excited at the gold price, but I

1233
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 3: don't think anyone foresaw, or very few people did, how

1234
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 3: quickly it would get to four thousand and then go

1235
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 3: from there to four thousand, sort of four hundred so

1236
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 3: quickly either.

1237
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 8: And it's it's interesting because I know, probably this is

1238
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 8: probably fifteen twenty years ago, and someone I remember, you know,

1239
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 8: I was listening to an Alice talking and they kind

1240
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 8: of made predictions on the all Shit index at that

1241
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 8: total definitely traded forty five thousand.

1242
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 3: If that's ridiculous, never happened.

1243
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 8: That's so far away, we'll never get to forty five thousand.

1244
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 8: But I suppose it's also you know, the percentage moves,

1245
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 8: you know, the absolute moves versus the percentage moves become

1246
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 8: almost the absolute moves become more impressive because ten percent

1247
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 8: up on a four thousand dollars gold price is four

1248
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 8: hundred dollars of extra on your gold price, So it

1249
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 8: tends to exaggerate.

1250
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's just the nature of the beast.

1251
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 8: But you know, the gold market has also been fascinating

1252
01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 8: because you know, as I said, coming into the year

1253
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 8: with a side that the US was just it was

1254
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 8: the only horse to beat on and it really wasn't

1255
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 8: the horse to death on this year, because South Africa

1256
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 8: might have done that well, but you know, China beat

1257
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 8: to the US, foot sea beat the UF for C

1258
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 8: one hundred, beat the US, eurostocks beat the US, so

1259
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 8: it really wasn't. But everyone was saying this is the

1260
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 8: way to way to go. And then what we saw

1261
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 8: is kind of almost a d dollarization over the whole year.

1262
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 8: We saw the idea this dollar weakness just coming through

1263
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 8: over and over again, and I think central banks starting

1264
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 8: to look at this and say, the dollars a reserve

1265
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 8: currency of the world, but we need to start diversifying.

1266
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 8: And we've obviously seen it specifically among bricks central banks,

1267
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 8: and we've seen the Chinese central bank buying. We've seen

1268
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 8: you know, the rest of the bricks as well, all

1269
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 8: buying gold, trying to diversify their central bank balance sheets.

1270
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 8: And now we've got the unit, the new potential Bricks

1271
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 8: currency unit coming out which is going to be partially

1272
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 8: gold backed as well, and it's absolutely sent this into orbit.

1273
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 8: At the same time, we've also you know, whenever you

1274
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 8: look at the gold trade, there's two other components that,

1275
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 8: and they call it the love trade and the fear trade.

1276
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 8: The love trade really is rising incomes in the East,

1277
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 8: so the likes of Indian wedding season, et cetera. And

1278
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 8: we've seen emerging markets doing significantly better this year. That

1279
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 8: prompted kind of extra accumulation, certainly from Eastern households. And

1280
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 8: then at the same time, you know, if you look

1281
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 8: at things like the put call ratio, volatility index, all

1282
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 8: the things that feed into the fear and greed index,

1283
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 8: you've seen a lot of fear in Western economies as well.

1284
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 8: And when you have fear in Western economies and you

1285
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 8: have a fear specifically of inflation, people also vigal. Yes,

1286
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 8: you've had this almost these three tailwinds to the precious metal,

1287
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 8: and the result has been spectacular.

1288
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 3: So we spoke to John Bickhard from ninety one, I

1289
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 3: think it is last week, and he made this very

1290
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 3: interesting point and he sort of poses a question, which

1291
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 3: is about how you ascribe value. So if you are

1292
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 3: looking at stocks on the J seen many of them

1293
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 3: in his view, and I think perhaps in yours and

1294
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 3: many other people, you would say they're underpriced, you know,

1295
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 3: in terms of actual global terms, shop, right, we see

1296
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 3: it as an expensive stock, underpriced. So you could put

1297
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 3: money there, think Capitech, what any of those. Or you

1298
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 3: could put it into gold. Now gold's already gone up

1299
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 3: what two thousand dollars in two years. It would be foolish,

1300
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 3: you would think irrational to put money into gold when

1301
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 3: it's already gone up by so much. But that's probably

1302
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 3: what people are going to do.

1303
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 8: I mean, certainly, like it's a sentiment, and certainly I

1304
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 8: can I can speak from like experience, you know, dealing

1305
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 8: with with retail investors. Yeah, they follow performance, they you know,

1306
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 8: and and you know obviously as a professional fund manager,

1307
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 8: you want to try and follow the value. You want

1308
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 8: to understand, like what is the actual price of this?

1309
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 8: Is there a catalyst for rerating? I want to buy

1310
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 8: the unloved asset that no one is looking at and

1311
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 8: then get the major price rerating. But but it's it's

1312
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 8: human it's human psychology. You you see this, these incredible returns,

1313
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 8: You buy a little bit, you get even more returns,

1314
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 8: and it's it's almost operant conditioning. I bought this, I

1315
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 8: feel good. I should buy more. I felt better, and

1316
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 8: it continues to go. And I suppose that's where you

1317
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 8: get these big dislocations and markets. But I mean that

1318
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 8: also iPhones exactly. But it's but looking at the I

1319
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 8: mean gold, Gold is an interesting investment case because where

1320
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 8: does its value come from. It's not an industrial metal.

1321
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 8: There's no I mean other than you know, in high

1322
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 8: end circretry. But it's nothing like pattern where half the

1323
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 8: metal is used in auto catalytic converters and has plenty

1324
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 8: of other industrial applications. Gold is literally shiny, durable, valuable,

1325
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 8: and a store of value. And that's kind of it's

1326
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 8: it's it's money more than anything else. And and I mean,

1327
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:42,639
Speaker 8: at risk of sounding like you know, the tinfoil had

1328
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,680
Speaker 8: a guy, I mean, if you if you look at

1329
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 8: if you look at if we've looked at rebasing all

1330
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 8: of these indices and dollars saying that the jaz is

1331
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 8: up sixty five percent in US solar terms. If we

1332
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,720
Speaker 8: have to reprice everything in gold, every market in the

1333
01:08:57,720 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 8: world is down if we were measuring it in gold

1334
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 8: piece because the gold price in US dollar terms is

1335
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 8: up sixty six percent from the year.

1336
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 3: Which is which is which is which is crazy.

1337
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 8: But now, how do you actually value gold like it's

1338
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 8: it doesn't pay a dividend, It doesn't create any economic value.

1339
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 8: There's no coupon attached to it. It's a literally supply

1340
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 8: and demand and it's only generating value through other people

1341
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:22,479
Speaker 8: wanting to own it. And what do they do with

1342
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 8: it when they buy it? They go stick it in

1343
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 8: a vault somewhere and do nothing with it. So it

1344
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 8: is it is a pretty scary prospect. I mean, and

1345
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 8: like I said, like, how do you value? How do

1346
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 8: you value an ounce of gold? Like what is the

1347
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 8: How can you determine that? Because you can, you can

1348
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 8: your present value all the future cash flows of a business,

1349
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 8: and that will give you what the business is worth

1350
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 8: today because it's going to generate more dollars or round

1351
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 8: or whatever for you. Gold doesn't generate anything, It's honest.

1352
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:50,719
Speaker 8: Even or buy it from me for more than four thousand,

1353
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 8: four hundred dollars an ounce, then maybe I'll make a profit.

1354
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 8: But if you're not willing to buy it for that,

1355
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:57,680
Speaker 8: then then it's not worth that. And that that in

1356
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 8: kind of the investment circles a pretty scary prospect at

1357
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 8: any level.

1358
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, absolutely, platinum is interesting. So platinum suddenly,

1359
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 3: out of no way started to move. Then it started

1360
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 3: and in a way, like you described, some people got

1361
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 3: the idea. This was the moment. More people follow them.

1362
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 3: And today when our last checked, it was over one

1363
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 3: nine hundred dollars. And you would expect then, simply because

1364
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 3: the stocks of platinum are so low and it takes

1365
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,160
Speaker 3: so long to get them to get the stuff, that

1366
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 3: this is going to continue, that platinum strength will probably continue.

1367
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 3: And you know, everyone always says to me, well, it's

1368
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:33,759
Speaker 3: tied to gold. Why I can't explain that.

1369
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,639
Speaker 8: It's also precious metal and easy to transport a high

1370
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:41,320
Speaker 8: value commodity. I guess, yes, yeah, I mean it's interested

1371
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:43,719
Speaker 8: as a platinum obviously, like I said, a very different metal,

1372
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 8: but it also does have it has an investment demand

1373
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 8: component to it. So you know, if you go and

1374
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 8: read the Johnson Matthew reports, which are probably some of

1375
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 8: the best reports to really get a sense of where

1376
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 8: the platform market is is at the moment, you'll see,

1377
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 8: you know, platinum specifically, like Japanese ETF buying is is

1378
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 8: actually a big investment component in platinum, and that's been increasing.

1379
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 8: So there's no question that the investment demand for either

1380
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:11,280
Speaker 8: platinum bars or platinum ETFs. Because remember whenever you go

1381
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 8: out and buy an ETF, that's commodity links. So if

1382
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 8: you buy the new gold ETF, or you you buy

1383
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 8: the new it's called like the new gold platinum ETF,

1384
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 8: they have to hedge that metal and needs. So they've

1385
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 8: got a you might be buying an instrument in a

1386
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 8: securities broking account, they've got to go and buy physical

1387
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 8: and and back that. So you become part of that

1388
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 8: investment community. You become part of the demand side of

1389
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 8: the equation. But as I said, platinum has got a

1390
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 8: lot of other uses as well and on the supplier

1391
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 8: So so that's that's the demand side, autoctalytic converters, all

1392
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 8: the industrial applications, investment demand as well. But there's also

1393
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 8: the supply side of the equation as well. And you know,

1394
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 8: South Africa is a very unique position that we supply

1395
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:53,640
Speaker 8: like seventy percent of the world's platinum.

1396
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 3: Russia.

1397
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 8: Russia is up there as well, and obviously Russia has

1398
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 8: its own challenges around sanctions, so you know, essentially, I

1399
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 8: mean there's been many talks about US becoming was the

1400
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 8: outpeck of platform, like if there is that really this demand,

1401
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:08,760
Speaker 8: we could could tail supply in South Africa. Maybe we

1402
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 8: should tterarify it. I don't know, but we could control

1403
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 8: this supply of platinum and drive up prices just by

1404
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 8: creating a scarcity by not mining as much. But of

1405
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 8: course there's political elements to this, because you know, the

1406
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 8: precious maker complex has been an incredible contributor to the

1407
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 8: fiscus this year. Well, I mean we could call the

1408
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:31,839
Speaker 8: cartel to beers exactly for some point.

1409
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 3: Because I mean that's exactly what happened so for for

1410
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:38,639
Speaker 3: a long time. The thing about platinum was the reason

1411
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 3: the price was low was people presumed that it was

1412
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 3: the end of the internal combustion engine. There would be none,

1413
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 3: none of those left. Everyone would be driving electric. China

1414
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:49,840
Speaker 3: is pumping through electric cars at the moment. There can

1415
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 3: be no doubt. And surely that is a case to say,

1416
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 3: well there are limits to our flower platinum can go.

1417
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a great point. And there I have sat

1418
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 8: with many inutional platinum analysts to discuss specifically, like that

1419
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 8: repowered electric vehicles and what the adoption rate is, and

1420
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 8: it seems that I'm not saying anyone specifically, but it

1421
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 8: seems that you know, almost the market is assuming a

1422
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:16,759
Speaker 8: linear adoption of electric vehicles, and unfortunately that's not really

1423
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 8: how technology is adopted. So what happens is you get

1424
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 8: this kind of shift, and like you say, I think

1425
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 8: we're almost on the cusp. So the platinum market has

1426
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 8: been in deficit for a long time. It looks to

1427
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 8: be in deficit for a long time as well. But

1428
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 8: a big component of this is those, like I said,

1429
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 8: the autocats. Now, the other problem that you have is

1430
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 8: recycling as well. So the platinum part of an autocatealyt

1431
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 8: vert is one hundred percent recyclable, So once it's mined,

1432
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 8: you've got that platinum and you can actually scrap the car,

1433
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 8: build a new ice engine or ice internal combustion engine vehicle,

1434
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 8: and recycle the platinum. So there's that kind of limit

1435
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 8: on the demand on the one side. But as you say,

1436
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 8: it's not going to be a linear adoption of battery

1437
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 8: poled electric vehicles. It's probably going to be a hockey stick.

1438
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 8: And as you get that mass adoption, as the infrastructure

1439
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:07,719
Speaker 8: for electric vehicles is built out, the switch will happen

1440
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 8: incredibly quickly, and then you're going to see a lot

1441
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,439
Speaker 8: of volatility in the platform price as well, so right now,

1442
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:15,640
Speaker 8: remember all markets forward look, they are all trying to

1443
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 8: price in future expectations. And now what they're saying is given,

1444
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:21,639
Speaker 8: you know, the next couple of years. We don't see

1445
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:23,720
Speaker 8: that hockey stick adoption in a way that it's going

1446
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 8: to materially disrupt the market. But that all depends on

1447
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 8: how fast you think that rollot's going to Because that

1448
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 8: that rollout is very quick and you can't find a

1449
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 8: substitute for such a large component of the demand, you

1450
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:37,439
Speaker 8: will see platin prices collapse.

1451
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,639
Speaker 3: Gary Boyson's portfolio managing director at Rands Swiss, just having

1452
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 3: a look at the market trends of the year. Nine

1453
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 3: minutes now to eight.

1454
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 15: The Money Show Stephen Rutez is brought to you by

1455
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:54,560
Speaker 15: appsir CIB Proud Sole Leader Ranger and Infrastructure Finance structuring

1456
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 15: agent on the South African National Treasuries eleven point eight

1457
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 15: billion Rand infrastructure and LIP and FINA's bond.

1458
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 3: The Money Show Investment Schools was looking at the big

1459
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 3: trends of the year looking ahead to next year as well.

1460
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:12,840
Speaker 3: Gary Boyson's portfolio managment director at Grants was Gary A

1461
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 3: new gold was going to take us a little while

1462
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 3: but we do need to talk about AI. And at

1463
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 3: the start of the year, this was one of the

1464
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 3: reasons for the American exceptionalism, you know, the idea that

1465
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 3: money was just going to keep pouring into AI. And

1466
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 3: that was right until about September. Things started to shift

1467
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 3: and things got a little choppier after that. I mean,

1468
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 3: this isn't easy to put a sort of finger on it,

1469
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 3: but suddenly the phrase bubble. How did routers keep putting it?

1470
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:43,120
Speaker 3: Concerns about AI valuations was their phrase. Where did it

1471
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 3: all start? I don't know.

1472
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 8: I feel like it started with Michael Burry come out

1473
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 8: and saying.

1474
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:51,040
Speaker 3: Short Palante video and everyone going, wait, I watched the

1475
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:55,560
Speaker 3: big short and clearly the one guy. Clearly these must know.

1476
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 8: I think it's also, you know, like the rally that

1477
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 8: we've seen has been absolutely and I mean, I'm sure

1478
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,679
Speaker 8: you've chatted to my colleague of many times as well,

1479
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 8: and we run essentially an AI based portfolio that literally

1480
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 8: came to us we'll probably like a wast three three

1481
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 8: and a half years ago and used to watch the

1482
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 8: poles of you know, there was a there was a

1483
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:18,559
Speaker 8: pole that was always done on how soon would we

1484
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 8: get AGI? So that artificial general intelligence, and it was

1485
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 8: all the leading air scientists are saying thirty years, thirty

1486
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 8: five years, thirty years, and they suddenly it dropped to

1487
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,720
Speaker 8: like five and said, there's something different. We need to

1488
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 8: launch a portfolio. So that's when we launched our air portfolio.

1489
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 8: And I mean the ride has been spectacular. I mean

1490
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 8: it's been a phenomenal success. I think he's up over

1491
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:41,920
Speaker 8: fifty percent for the year, the portfolios andceinceptions well over

1492
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 8: one hundred percent up, and it's got all the kind

1493
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 8: of big ones in. But it has, like you said,

1494
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 8: the last couple of months, has started to get choppier.

1495
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 8: And you know, I don't know because if you look

1496
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 8: at it and you you see the application of AI

1497
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 8: and and and the buildout that we're seeing in data centers,

1498
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:59,640
Speaker 8: that the amount of money flowing into the sector, and

1499
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 8: you you also look at it compared to other other businesses.

1500
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 8: If you had to look at in videos results and

1501
01:17:05,439 --> 01:17:08,560
Speaker 8: you had to take out the idea that this was

1502
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 8: you didn't didn't tell us anything about what the company

1503
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 8: actually did, but you just looked at how it's growing

1504
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:17,200
Speaker 8: and pretend it sells widgets instead. Even now it's not

1505
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:21,599
Speaker 8: particularly expensive given how fast it's growing. You look at

1506
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 8: kind of forward estimates and it's it's not crazily priced.

1507
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 8: And I think the big risk around AI, and I

1508
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 8: think where the fear is starting to come into it

1509
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:32,400
Speaker 8: is is that there's there's an over build or that

1510
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 8: something within AI itself, the machine learning has a limit,

1511
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 8: and that we're not going to get to AGI. That

1512
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 8: chat GBT is wonderful, and we can aggregate data in

1513
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,879
Speaker 8: an amazing way, and we've got these large language modules

1514
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 8: that we can talk to and get code out of,

1515
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 8: and there'll be some application. You know, there's already plenty

1516
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 8: of application. And the future benefits that the actual technology

1517
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,760
Speaker 8: stops here and all we can benefit from is that

1518
01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:01,600
Speaker 8: technology filtering into businesses across the globe. There's further development,

1519
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 8: and at the stage there's no indication that that's true. Like,

1520
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 8: if anything, it seems to be accelerating, and the modules

1521
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 8: are getting better and better. I think, you know, to

1522
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:14,719
Speaker 8: an extent, we've almost reached the limit where we can't

1523
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 8: tell that the modules are getting better. It's getting to

1524
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,200
Speaker 8: a level that you know, when you know the next

1525
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 8: version of Gemini or chat gpt on, you know it

1526
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 8: gets or Claude gets launched, you play with it, and

1527
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:29,599
Speaker 8: you as as as a normal human, can't actually tell

1528
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 8: how much better it is because it's it's that good.

1529
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:35,720
Speaker 8: And and I think that's maybe where people are looking

1530
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:37,679
Speaker 8: at it and saying that isn't the kind of advances

1531
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 8: that we saw in the earlier days, but but by

1532
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:44,679
Speaker 8: all kind of like metrics, those advances are still happening.

1533
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:47,720
Speaker 8: So yeah, it's it's an interesting one, like where to

1534
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:50,519
Speaker 8: try and put a finger on, like why the volatility started.

1535
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 8: I mean it's very difficult to say. You know, sentiment

1536
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 8: shifts on a time and and suddenly people you know,

1537
01:18:57,080 --> 01:18:59,400
Speaker 8: you know, that's that's where hypes and manias come from.

1538
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 8: You know, they suddenly it's it's everything. And I think

1539
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 8: the one that probably gets shared the most is the

1540
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 8: gardener hype cycle. You know, where you kind of there's

1541
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 8: a disruptive technology. Everyone gets almost over exuberant, and then suddenly,

1542
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 8: you know, it reaches this peak. No one can tell

1543
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 8: kind of where the peak is or why it reaches

1544
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 8: the peak, and then there's the collapse. I think you

1545
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 8: reach the trough for the Valley of despair they call it.

1546
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 8: And then and then it kind of normalizes and keeps

1547
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 8: going up. So yeah, where we are in that cycle

1548
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 8: is difficult to tell. Is this a little wobble because

1549
01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 8: like from all kind of the reading and the latest

1550
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 8: papers around AI, it doesn't seem to be slowing down,

1551
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 8: and I mean maybe it could be concerns around regulation

1552
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 8: as well. So the likes of Bernie Sanders was a

1553
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 8: video doing the rounds this morning talking about how we

1554
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 8: have to slow down the progress because society isn't ready

1555
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 8: for the transition, the labor transition that that automation is

1556
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 8: going to create. That you know, white collar jobs are

1557
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 8: going to entry, that a white collar jobs will just

1558
01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:59,799
Speaker 8: disappear and won't be available, That unemployment will spike massively.

1559
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,040
Speaker 8: But the problem on the other side of that coin

1560
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 8: is that productivity will spike massively as well, and there

1561
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 8: will be more, but it's how does that get shared

1562
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 8: in an economy. So I think we're in a very

1563
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 8: disruptive era and it's very disruptive technology, and I think

1564
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:15,519
Speaker 8: it's it's going to be very exciting for the next

1565
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 8: three four five years as we see how this lands.

1566
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:19,680
Speaker 8: But I think I think that kind of almost the

1567
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 8: pushback against technology has gained some ground. And that maybe

1568
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 8: is also just stoking a couple of years.

1569
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 3: We've got literally thirty seconds the case was South Africa

1570
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 3: next year are as bullish as some people are.

1571
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 8: It's just it's you know, December to January. It's just

1572
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 8: a markets don't care about that. And I think the

1573
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:41,920
Speaker 8: trend has been quite clear. You know, we've seen really

1574
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:44,599
Speaker 8: positive things happening in South Africa recently. I mean we've

1575
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 8: been taken off the gray list, which is massive in

1576
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:50,000
Speaker 8: financial markets. Certainly, it makes us far more investible to

1577
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:54,320
Speaker 8: the international community. GDP forecasts are being upgraded all over

1578
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,800
Speaker 8: the place. There's been no load shedding. We've had a

1579
01:20:56,920 --> 01:21:00,879
Speaker 8: ratings upgrade from SMP Global, which is absolutely excellent. Reserve

1580
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 8: bankers adjust the die inflation target, so we've probably got

1581
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:08,000
Speaker 8: a lower terminal trajectory on our interest rates as well.

1582
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 8: We would expect more, not maybe aggressive cuts, but more

1583
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:14,559
Speaker 8: cuts over time. So I think South Africa is in

1584
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:17,760
Speaker 8: a pretty nice position at the moment, and yeah, let's

1585
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 8: hope the momentum continues into twenty twenty six.

1586
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:22,920
Speaker 3: Gary Boyson, thank you very much, indeed really appreciated the

1587
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:25,440
Speaker 3: portfolio manager director at rand Swiss.

1588
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:28,720
Speaker 15: The Money Show with Stephen Krutez is brought to you

1589
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:33,960
Speaker 15: by ABSIR CIB proud sole leader Ranger and Infrastructure Finance

1590
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 15: Structuring agent of the South African National Treasuries.

1591
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 3: Eleven point eight billion.

1592
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 15: Rand Infrastructure and Development Finance bond.

1593
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 3: Well, the US market's positive, the dal Jones up point

1594
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 3: twenty seven and nan stick up nearly one and a

1595
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:49,760
Speaker 3: half y s and P five hundred up zero point

1596
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:52,639
Speaker 3: eight percent. We'll be back with you tomorrow. Good evening,

1597
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 3: it's eight o'clock