1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: You're with Cape Talk Perpatan on lunch. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 2: And Wendy Nola is with us in studio for Consumer 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: Talk today. A reminder that we're starting with a conversation 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: about laybys and then we will move into open lines. 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: So if you're wanting to ask about other consumer related issues, 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: please do start sending your questions through now on seven 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: two five six seven one five six seven and uh yeah, 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: we'll probably get to some of the open line calls 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 2: in the second half. 10 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 3: Are Wendy love you to have you back with us. 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 4: Thanks, good to be heirs. 12 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: All right now, In your sort of preparation for today's show, 13 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: you described laybys as the most consumer friendly way to 14 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: buy things if you can't pay for them in cash. 15 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 3: Let's start there. Why do you regard them as that? 16 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 5: Okay, So it's a really winning sort of world win 17 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 5: win option for many people, especially if you're saving towards 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 5: something that you don't need right away, because one of 19 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 5: the only downside is that, unlike with other forms of 20 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 5: credit and even this what's it by now pay later, 21 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 5: there's those options such as pages now and the rest 22 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 5: that have become very prevalent. You get to take the 23 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 5: item at the time, so then's so yes, So with 24 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 5: with layby, the only downside is that you don't get 25 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 5: instant gratification. But if you use it strategically, like millions 26 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 5: of parents of school going children do every year that 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 5: you lay by the school clothes and in November sa 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 5: and you pay it often, but by January you know 29 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 5: you've got your your kids' school clothes. And yes, they 30 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 5: obviously allow for a little growth in the meantime and 31 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 5: that kind of thing. So so, and I mean it's 32 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 5: forty degrees to get today, Papa. What clothing is in 33 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 5: the in online and in stores. It's all the jackets, 34 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 5: seers and the boots and yeah, and we don't need 35 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 5: them now, so go and layby. I mean, it's gone 36 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 5: very mainstream labor. And when I started doing consumer journalism 37 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 5: in the late nineties, it was very much your small 38 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 5: little independent store in the middle of the CBD, that 39 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 5: kind of thing. And now you know it's in you know, 40 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 5: it's very mainstream. 41 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 4: It's in top stores. 42 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 5: There's labor notices everywhere, and if you use it cleverly 43 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 5: for stuff that you don't you will only need in 44 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 5: a few months time. School stationary, there's lots of things, 45 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 5: or your fridge is acting up a little bit but 46 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 5: could probably limp along in other but or whatever. Yeah, 47 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 5: it's time you changed it. Go and do a labor 48 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 5: so and the best part is if you change your mind. 49 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 5: This is more likely to happen with clothing than an appliance, 50 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 5: or it could happen with an ampliance that you see 51 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 5: it's cheaper somewhere else, and you think, I know when else? 52 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 5: You get to cancel and all the money that you've 53 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 5: paid up until that point must be paid back to you. 54 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 5: Mine is a cancelation penalty. And this is not a 55 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 5: big r because the cancelation penalty prior to the CPA. 56 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 4: Used to be ten percent, but now it's just one percent. 57 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 4: I don't think this is a. 58 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 5: Very good deal for retailers at all, and consumers should 59 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 5: should should capitalize on it. 60 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 4: Right, So if you put if you there's a pair. 61 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 5: Of beads that you just must have, let's say it's 62 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 5: three thousand rand or a jacket or whatever. 63 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 4: And you pay the other thing. 64 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 5: That's happened that labors have been extended in some cases 65 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 5: that people it's more affordable for people, they'll do it 66 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 5: over six months, but other than the norm is around three. 67 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 5: And so you decide, after paying two thousand rand that 68 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 5: you know you don't really like them, or you've seen 69 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 5: them cheaper somewhere else. Well, you can't afford it, and 70 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 5: you actually need that two. 71 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 4: Thousand rand for something else. You cancel. 72 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 5: They've got to give you back your two thousand rand, 73 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 5: deducting only one percent of the purchase price. So what 74 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 5: is one percent of three thousand even I can work 75 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 5: out that's thirty rand. So you get your two thousand 76 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 5: rand back minus thirty rand. 77 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's that's the deal. It's a deal 78 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 3: of note. 79 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 5: They now stuck with a product that they could have 80 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 5: sold two months earlier. You know, it's a very very 81 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 5: That's why I say it's extremely consumer friendly. Okay, at 82 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 5: business have been able to cancel. If you put your 83 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 5: money down on something luxury and need a want rather 84 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 5: than a need, and then you need that money back 85 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 5: for something else more more of a need, then pay 86 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 5: you intriciteople for example, whatever the case. 87 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 4: Maybe then you get almost all your money back. 88 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 5: And so I qualify this by saying it is a 89 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 5: huge win for consumers if you know how to use 90 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 5: it to your advantage if you don't need something right away, 91 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 5: and also very importantly, if the company concerned is playing nice, 92 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 5: playing by. 93 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 2: The rules, which is not always the case, and that's 94 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: what will lead us to today's case study. Shortly, but 95 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: before we get to Lucy's story, just tell us a 96 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: little bit more about the ins and outs of lay 97 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: bys and how they're meant to work, because Whendy, it 98 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 2: strikes me as you say, it's become more mainstream, uptake 99 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: is bigger now, but they're still maybe listeners who've never 100 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: used the process before don't actually know how it works. 101 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 2: Can you just tell us a little bit more about 102 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 2: how it functions and where it sits into consumer protections? 103 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 5: So it's section sixty five of the Consumer Protection Act 104 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 5: that regulates labors for those who want to look it 105 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 5: up for themselves, and how it works is just a 106 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 5: summary of some of the things I've just said. You 107 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 5: set aside what you want, the jacket, the fridge, whatever 108 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 5: the case may be. You sign an agreement agreeing to 109 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 5: pay it off over three to six months, whatever the 110 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 5: store will allow and what works for you. The shop 111 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 5: is obliged to keep it in a secure area and 112 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 5: ensure that it's not sold to somebody else. I'll get 113 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 5: to what happens if they don't do that. The Act 114 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 5: says each amount paid by the consumer to the supplier 115 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 5: remains the property of the consumer until the goods have 116 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 5: been delivered to the consumer, and they remain at the 117 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 5: risk of the shop until the goods have been delivered 118 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 5: to the consumer. So first of all, that's why you're 119 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 5: entitled to a refund. Mine is that small penalty because 120 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 5: it's your money, just as the product remains their their products. 121 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, but the money is yours. And if. 122 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 5: There's some reason that they weren't able to make the 123 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 5: product available to you when you finished paying. So there's 124 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 5: a number of things. The one is the no fault 125 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 5: on the part of the shop and the other is 126 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 5: for error. So for example, to remember this played out 127 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 5: in case it enjuring the riots in twenty twenty two, 128 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 5: I think it was a lot of those stores were 129 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 5: looted or burnt down, and a lot of people had 130 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 5: labors in those stores, and so that the responsibility the 131 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 5: risk lay with the shops, with the retailers. 132 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 3: That they had to fund, yes, and in that case if. 133 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 5: They weren't able to, if they weren't able to give 134 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 5: you give the items to you for that reason, then 135 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 5: you got to you get to make a choice whether 136 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 5: you want to accept similar goods that are either that's 137 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 5: the same or better in terms of design and quality 138 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 5: and description, in other words, not worse, or you can 139 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 5: get a refund with interests if the fact, you know, 140 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 5: if if the goods aren't available. 141 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: So if that's in the case of it not being 142 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: no fault of the store's fault, okay, it's their fault, 143 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: and I think it it's they've either lost the our 144 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: tem I've had a few of these, or they've sold 145 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: it to somebody else. 146 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 5: Then you are due double the amount that you paid 147 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 5: as compensation. 148 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 4: I know. 149 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 3: That's a very sexy I know. 150 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 4: I mean, I get people coming to me. 151 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 5: All they want is their money back, littleone compensation, and 152 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 5: the stores like, sorry, we told. 153 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 4: It, like it's unbelievable. 154 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 5: But obviously that's to deter the merchants from just deciding 155 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 5: I don't know if this person's actually going to pay 156 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 5: this lay about if I'm just rather going to sell 157 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 5: it to this customer because they really wanted and they've 158 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 5: got cash in hand, or they've got credit card or whatever. 159 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 5: So that's to discourage them, but of course it relies 160 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 5: on consumers knowing what their rights are. 161 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to say that again. So if okay, 162 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: so this is if you get to the end of 163 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: paying off your item and the store says, sorry, we 164 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: actually don't have it anymore, if the reason they don't 165 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 2: have it is not their fault. So if the store 166 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: burnt down, or if the item was looted during a riot, 167 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: they have got to either refund you your money, or 168 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: offer you interest with interest, or offer you a similar 169 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: or better product if it was their fault. If they 170 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 2: simply sold it to somebody else, they not only have 171 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: to refund you every cent you've paid, they've got to 172 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: pay you double the amount that you have paid at 173 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: that point as compensation. 174 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: So that is very very important to know the difference there. 175 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 2: Wendy, What about when the consumer changed them, changes their 176 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 2: mind so they into the lay by and as you said. 177 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, I want the money for something else. 178 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 5: I don't like those boots so much anymore. I found 179 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 5: it cheaper somewhere else. Then you get they must give you, 180 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 5: because remember the money is still yours until you've paid 181 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 5: off in full, you get to get everything you've paid 182 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 5: up until that point back as a refund. Mine is 183 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 5: just one percent of the retail price of the product 184 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 5: as a penalty, which is a very very small. 185 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 3: And even there there is a caveat, yes, very important. 186 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 5: The same caveat applies if you make an advance booking 187 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 5: for a flat or holiday or whatever. If the cancelation 188 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 5: is due to your being hospitalized or you dying, then 189 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 5: your state would come into play. They may not charge 190 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 5: any cancelation penalty at all. That's not as much of 191 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 5: a winner as it is in an advanced booking situation 192 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 5: because the penalties a skull anyway. 193 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so lots of benefits are compared to the 194 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: kinds of penalties and cancelation the fees that apply to 195 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 2: some of the other payment methods. 196 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 4: Now. 197 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 3: Wendy FM has. 198 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: Written in saying I love the layby model, but in 199 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: my experience it's not that common anymore. I wanted to 200 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 2: get a nice TV on layby, and every store with 201 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 2: good TVs only offered me buy now, pay later. 202 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's interesting. 203 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 5: I went down that rabbit hole trying to research whether 204 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 5: banner pay later had dented labors, but apparently not they 205 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 5: sort of run in parallel. The big difference being, of 206 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 5: course that in the first case you you get the 207 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 5: product straight well, in the case of banner pay later, 208 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 5: you get the product straight away. So it's more like 209 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 5: a credit card situation. And as long as you make 210 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 5: your payments on time as you're supposed to, you don't 211 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 5: pay any interest. But you don't just get to cancel 212 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 5: and get all your money back. You don't have that 213 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 5: advantage as you have you are committed to to that 214 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 5: to finish and to finish paying, which is I mean 215 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 5: with labor, as I say, you're it's so much flexibility. 216 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 5: But so in mass market stores such as PEP and 217 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 5: we've spoken about their body system with labors a lot 218 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 5: at the beginning, mostly at the beginning of the year. 219 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 4: It gives jet. 220 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 5: In the stores, labor is huge, Online pay. 221 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 4: Later is huge. 222 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 5: So it's two different kind of consumers, one more traditional 223 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 5: than the other. Interesting, okay, but I like labor for 224 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 5: their cancelation benefit. I mean, you don't get that kind 225 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 5: of ability to cancel for such for such a tiny 226 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 5: enity in any other model. 227 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 2: It is I mean, it's it's also sort of as 228 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 2: a as a discipline of saving towards an item rather 229 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: than putting yourself into debt to bde on credit you 230 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: can't right now, it's a very good discipline to cultivate. 231 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 5: South Africans appear to favor. And we're talking about mass 232 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 5: market now, not just the South Africans that that you 233 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 5: rub shoulders within them, all right, We're talking about across 234 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 5: the board. Tend to appear to favor, laybor for budgeting discipline, 235 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 5: interest free installments, and avoiding debt, especially big ticket or 236 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 5: seasonal items such as school uniforms, appliances, and festive purchases. 237 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 5: So it sort of runs with stockfell. But you then 238 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 5: get on top of that, you know, lay by something 239 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 5: you know, clothes or whatever that you for Christmas only 240 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 5: going to want at Christmas. So you start in September, say, 241 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 5: and then you yeah. 242 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: So Keith asking is there any set maximum percentage you 243 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: have to pay up front? And also is it set 244 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 2: how many the longest period you can lay by? 245 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 5: It doesn't say so in the act. Interestingly, I read 246 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 5: that Game, which is part of the Massmart group, reported 247 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 5: a significant increase in labor sales in late twenty twenty 248 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 5: two after easing their terms. So their terms are no 249 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 5: deposit required, and they extended it to six months from 250 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 5: three and people really like that because it made their 251 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 5: monthly installment lower. So that's up to the store to 252 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 5: come up with whether you need to pay a deposit 253 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 5: or not, and how many months it's going to be over. 254 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 5: So that's something to check and could influence your decision 255 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 5: of where you want to labor something. 256 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 4: Okay, So yeah. 257 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 2: So let's get to today's case study, which is the 258 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 2: reason we're talking about this, and there is a demonstration 259 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: of how, even in this very consumer friendly environment, things 260 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 2: can go wrong if the store either doesn't know what 261 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: it's meant to do or choose to turn a blind 262 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 2: eye to what the law requires of it. So, as 263 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 2: Wendy said, this works really if the shop is playing 264 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 2: by the rules, coloring inside the lines. But today we 265 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: want to flag a case where that didn't happen, and 266 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 2: we recently took up the case of a domestic worker 267 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: named Lucy who could not get her money back when 268 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 2: her layby with a major retailer had lapsed. And just 269 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: to briefly tell you what happened before we chat to Lucy, 270 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: Lucy initiated this layby at the Hi Fi Corporation in 271 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 2: Bayside More table View. In November twenty twenty four, she 272 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 2: had wanted to purchase a nine thousand round gas stove. 273 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 2: She put down a deposit of two thousand rand towards 274 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 2: it and agreed to pay on layby, but then unfortunately 275 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: hit some unforeseen financial challenges and realized she wouldn't be 276 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 2: able to continue making those payments on the stove. She 277 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 2: needed that money elsewhere, so that agreement lapsed after six months. 278 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: And as Wendy has told us already, what should have 279 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: happened is that Lucy should have got her two thousand 280 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: rand deposit back minus that one percent penalty. 281 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: But that is not what happened, Wendy. 282 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 4: No, not at all. So so. 283 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 5: Her penalty should have been one percent of nine thousand, 284 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 5: which is yes, So yeah, she was just given a 285 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 5: hard note and she went into the store again and 286 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 5: again that just and and somebody actually said to you, 287 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 5: you're not going to get your money back, which is 288 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 5: all quite surprising for me, with such a major stores 289 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 5: with a national footprint, and I deal with a lot, 290 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 5: and that's certainly something that I wouldn't have expected. But 291 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 5: you got to understand sometimes what happens at store level 292 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 5: doesn't filter back. 293 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 4: To head office. 294 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 2: So we've got Lucy on the line as well as 295 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 2: her employer, D, who was the person who reached out 296 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: to us to try and help here. And D and Lucy, 297 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: welcome to both of you. Thanks for joining us this afternoon. 298 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 6: Hello Andy, helloso he thanks for. 299 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 3: Having It's a huge pleasure. 300 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 7: Lucy. 301 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: I believe when you went into the store to say 302 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 2: I need to end this agreement. Can I please have 303 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: my money back? It was an incredibly frustrating it experience. 304 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about what you 305 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 2: were told and how many times you had to go 306 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: back into the store asking for your money. Oh? 307 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 6: I went to the store so many times. I started 308 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 6: when day, like it was in June last year, and 309 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 6: I got there and they told me that the YO 310 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 6: refund is not being paid from the head quarters. I 311 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 6: don't know, maybe they have my cop head courts, so 312 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 6: we're gonna they're gonna they will call the head courtest 313 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 6: and get back to me. But they did. They never 314 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 6: did get back to me. Then I was going there like, 315 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 6: I don't know, so many times I can even count. 316 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yoh, And what was the worst thing you 317 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 5: were told, Lucy, what was the most annoying or frustrating 318 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 5: thing that you were told by one of the staff members. 319 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 6: And during one of my visits there, one day, I 320 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 6: took man signed with me and she he was six 321 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 6: and he was playing on the ottoman and his courageous 322 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 6: step ottoman and least the max. Then they called the 323 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 6: manager and the manager came and he was like, I'm 324 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 6: gonna get I'm not gonna get the real fine, but 325 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 6: I'm not going you were gonna give me the attoomeat 326 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 6: oh goodness because of thors Mark. And the other day 327 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 6: again when I visit day, the other lady said, you're 328 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 6: not gonna get the money. It's like she was commented 329 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 6: to me, And I was so worried. 330 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, now do I believe you also got involved 331 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: and tried to lobby on Lucy's behalf to tell them 332 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: that they needed to pay her back the money that. 333 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: Was to her. What were you told when you got 334 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 3: when you tried. 335 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 8: Well, you know, it was quite a frustrating thing for 336 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 8: me because I I fortus, I didn't know Lucy struggles. 337 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 8: She only brought it to my attention when the store 338 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 8: manager called. It was it was actually on the twenty 339 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 8: eighth of jan and Peter Basman called and he informed 340 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 8: her that her refund had apparently been processed in May 341 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 8: twenty twenty five, and Lucy was so frustrated and absolutely 342 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 8: desperate because she hadn't received this refund and they were saying, 343 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 8: but the refund had been processed. And that's when I 344 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 8: just realized that I had to step in and try 345 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 8: and help her. You know, Lucy's been with us for 346 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 8: the past seven years. She's a blessing to our family, 347 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 8: and I just wanted to rectify this for her. And 348 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 8: I gathered all the relevant facts and supporting documents from 349 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 8: her and contacted Wendy Nola, who worked her magic as always. 350 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 8: But it was a frustrating process because when I called 351 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 8: Peter to get an answer from him, he was very 352 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 8: hesitant to even give me an email address, you know, 353 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 8: and I just thought, an email address is just the 354 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 8: white where to go. You've got a paper trail. There's 355 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 8: no he said, she said in any long in translation. 356 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 8: But heston she said, well, I'm still going to call you, 357 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 8: and I said that's fine. I just want to email 358 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 8: address so we can just put it all down on paper. 359 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 8: Never responded to any of my correspondents, and that's when 360 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 8: I then decided it's time that I asked Wendy stop. 361 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 3: Okay, d and Lucy please stay with us. 362 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 2: We do need to pause there to go to the 363 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 2: news headlines, but we're going to come back to you 364 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 2: after the news to let everybody know what the outcome 365 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 2: was and to hear from Wendy about her engagements with 366 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 2: the stalk. 367 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: Streaming countrywide on Prime Media. 368 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: Class on DStv channel eighty eighty five and across the 369 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 2: city on five six AM. No, Wendy's not leaving, she's 370 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 2: just having a holiday, and we'll sell you in shortly, 371 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 2: I promise. For now, though, I do want to come 372 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 2: straight back to Dan Lucy, who've been waiting so patiently 373 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 2: on the line. 374 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 3: If you are just tuning in. 375 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 2: Before the break, we were talking about lay bys, and 376 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: we shared with you the story of Lucy who had 377 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: placed a gas stove on lay by at Hi Fi 378 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: Corporation in Bayside Mall in November twenty twenty four. She'd 379 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 2: paid her deposit and then some months into the agreement, 380 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 2: realized that she was not going to be able to 381 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: continue with the lay by, so asked for what was 382 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: her legal due, a refund of the money she had 383 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: paid to date, and all she should have expected to 384 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 2: be told was yes, you can have your money back, 385 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 2: minus the one percent penalty of the nine stars ninety rand. 386 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 3: But that's not what happened. 387 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 2: And just before the break, Lucy was telling us about 388 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 2: how many times she had come and gone and gone 389 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 2: back into the store asking for her money, being told 390 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 2: it hasn't been paid yet, we can't give it to you. 391 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: Her a d who brought this case to us, got 392 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 2: involved and tried to help. Lucy was also describing to 393 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 2: us the run around she had, not getting any response 394 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: to emails, et cetera. And the bottom line is Lucy 395 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 2: is legally entitled to this money. We all know that 396 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 2: it's not just about the money that's due to her. 397 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 2: It's also then the cost of transport going back to 398 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 2: the store to chase it and the opportunity lost cost 399 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 2: associated with that. 400 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 3: So, Wendy, you took up the case with half Oi corporation. 401 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 2: So just to skip my mind for a second there, 402 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 2: tell us what happened. 403 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 5: Okay, So, as an I always do, I didn't go 404 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 5: to store level unless it's an independent store standalone store. 405 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 4: I went to head office. 406 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 5: I have a relationship with the corporate customer relations manager 407 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 5: for PEP Store Pepcorra the Lifestyle which it now owns 408 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 5: the half a Corp brand, who names uncare funder Plame 409 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 5: and her response was after a couple of days, we've 410 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 5: tracked this transaction's history and can confirm the refund is 411 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 5: being processed in full. We will not be charging any 412 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 5: cancelation penalty as for the delay, she said in an 413 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 5: internal review had identified a few complications while the labor 414 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 5: was canceled in May of twenty twenty five, and a 415 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 5: two thousand rand refunder was marked as processed, so apparently 416 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 5: that was what was afflecting on the system. At some 417 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 5: point an error occurred, resulting in the customer not receiving it. 418 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 5: It's a policy within our business that all labor cancelations 419 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 5: are diligently refunded in line with customer rights and legislation. 420 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 5: Lucy will be contacted to collect the refund from the store. 421 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 5: I have to say I've never had another complaint about 422 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 5: any of the stores in the group doing this. I 423 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 5: would still love to know what that complication was for 424 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 5: what happened but the upshot was a very unjust situation 425 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 5: for Lucy. 426 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: And I'm going to make the comments if I made 427 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 2: that contact Lucy to collect the refund from the store, 428 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 2: after all the times Lucy had been into the store, 429 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: they should have been delivering that refund post full with 430 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 2: suits and ribbons on top of it. In my opinion, 431 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 2: Lucy is still with us, as is Dean. 432 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 3: Lucy. 433 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 2: Firstly, have you yet received that refund? I mean, it's 434 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: good news that the store management or rather the head 435 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 2: officers said it absolutely is due to you and will 436 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 2: be paid to you, and they're not even going to 437 00:21:58,800 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 2: charge the cancelation fee. 438 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 3: But have you actually received your money yet? 439 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 9: Yes? 440 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 3: I did, Oh hallelujah. 441 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 5: Tell us about that, going back into the same store 442 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 5: that had repeatedly told you know, there's no money for you. 443 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 6: Sorry, Well, don't you. 444 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 5: Tell us about how that played out on the day 445 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 5: that you went, and I think it was a couple 446 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 5: of weeks ago. Now you had to go and deal 447 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 5: with the same people that had said no, no, no, 448 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 5: Now they had to give you some money two thousand rand. 449 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 6: They called me and if they say they called me, 450 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 6: they said, hey, Lucy, I'm from heikoff, you can come 451 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 6: and get your money. But when I win there, they 452 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 6: said they don't have you know, the best day. Then 453 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 6: the second day she said she's going to arrange the 454 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 6: cash for me. Then she did call me. Then I 455 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 6: went there. When I was there, she was like, oh, 456 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 6: they Headcotas came back to us like in the same 457 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 6: time when you were in Zimbabwe, And I thought this 458 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 6: thing was really so is this lady that the same 459 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 6: lady that told me that you're not going to get 460 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,239 Speaker 6: the money. She's the same lady that is saying, uh, 461 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 6: the money was was paid already and I'm going to 462 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 6: give you a case. She didn't say anything more that 463 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 6: she was life. 464 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 5: That day and a nice money. 465 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. 466 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 2: So, Lucy, I mean, I'm so relieved to hear that 467 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 2: you have the money in hand and that this. 468 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 3: Is all brought to a conclusion. 469 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 2: But I mean it should never have got to this 470 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 2: because do you want to just I mean, I'm thinking 471 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: here of how much you must have had to spend 472 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 2: on transport going back to the store, all the times 473 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 2: you went back, and the time that it took to 474 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 2: do that, and the inconvenience to you of of of 475 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 2: going to ask for what was legally owed to you. 476 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 2: How do you feel and now that it's all resolved, 477 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 2: about how much time and effort and money you had 478 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: to spend chasing that refund? 479 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 6: Oh, now I really feel. I am very grateful to 480 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 6: the n W Andy for help me get that refine 481 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 6: and I have money to send it to my kids 482 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 6: back home for their cool fees. 483 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 3: I'm so glad. Lucy, thank you, thank you for telling 484 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 3: us that. 485 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 2: And I'm just so relieved that we were able to 486 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: help get it resolved. And d to you, thank you 487 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 2: very much for bringing this case on Lucy's behalf to 488 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: Wendy so that we could get it resolved. But it's 489 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: been quite an eye opener for you as well as Lucy, 490 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: Hasn't it? 491 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 8: T It has, And I just wanted to say thank 492 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 8: you so much for you guys having this platform on 493 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 8: your talk show that we are able to use Wendy 494 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 8: when we really need her. You know, it was just 495 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 8: it was something that I felt, you know, like she 496 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 8: just couldn't get away with it when she was coming 497 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 8: home and saying to me, you know, I went into 498 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 8: the store and they said to me, you're not going 499 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 8: to get your money. I just thought sure. You know 500 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 8: that's quite something to tell someone that's entitled to that refund. 501 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 8: You know, I'm still not convinced Wendy and Papa that 502 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 8: perhaps the money did leave the toll and go into 503 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 8: the wrong hands and they were then asked to pay 504 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 8: that money to Lucy. I'm sorry for speculating that, but 505 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 8: it's just the way she was treated in the store 506 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 8: and told that the money's not available, and then sorry, 507 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 8: there's come in get your money, and then sorry, there's 508 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 8: no cash today. It just was all a little bit Dodge. 509 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: D you thanks for persevering and fighting on on Lucy's behalf, 510 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: and to both of you, thank you for joining us 511 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 2: this afternoon to share the story. All's well that ends well, 512 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 2: as they say, the money is back in Lucy's hands 513 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 2: and has gone to where it was urgently needed to 514 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 2: pay for school fees, and we wish you and your 515 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 2: kids well. Lucy and d thank you very much for 516 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: joining us as well. Yeah, Vick emailing in to say 517 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 2: it's still I won't use the phrase that he has used, 518 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 2: but a poor response from the store, he says, and 519 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 2: no ex gracier payment, etc. Yeah, I mean I think 520 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: it's a poor showing in terms of how Lucy was 521 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 2: treated Wendy, as you said, you and I would both 522 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 2: like to know what the reason was for how the 523 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 2: payment was captured as paid but not translated into handing 524 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 2: over to the customer. 525 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 5: This is how my work sort of plays out again 526 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 5: and again in these types of cases, sometimes small amounts 527 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 5: of money, sometimes big amounts of money and everything in between. 528 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 5: You know, it's a fairly quick fix for me, and 529 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 5: do very much compiled an email and said, hey, this is. 530 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 4: This is what's happening. Is what's happened. How are you 531 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 4: going to fix it out? But they shouldn't need. 532 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 5: Me because even so we had we had Lucy, and 533 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 5: then we had an employer who wasn't able to help, 534 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 5: And so it shouldn't have needed a third party such 535 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 5: as myself to get involved, to get involved in order 536 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 5: for the right thing to happen. 537 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 4: And that's the worrying part. 538 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 2: So the bottom line to take away with you, if 539 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 2: you've been listening to this and if you ask somebody 540 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 2: who uses labor and s, firstly, be aware of your 541 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 2: rights if you do need to cancel that agreement. Once again, 542 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 2: you're entitled to every cent that you've paid back minus 543 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 2: the one percent of the purchase price as a penalty. 544 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 2: And if you are not getting it, and you are 545 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 2: getting the kind of run around that Lucy got, you 546 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 2: need to be quoting Wendy what section of the connection 547 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 2: protection at. 548 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 5: Section sixty five of the CPA. You can take up 549 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 5: the matter with the Consumer Goods and Services on boot. 550 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 4: This is very much within their ambit. You can email me. 551 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 5: There's lots of well a fair bit of free help 552 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 5: that you can get. We also have a consumer court 553 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 5: here in the Western Cape. So don't let it right. 554 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 5: That's your the actors, that's. 555 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 4: Your money until they hand over. 556 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 3: The item that you put aside. 557 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 2: Well, lots of responses on the WhatsApp line, and many 558 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 2: of them saying the same thing which I think all 559 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: of us are thinking. Richard saying, how many High Fire 560 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 2: Corporation and other stores don't get caught out for exploiting 561 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 2: the uninformed or exploiting those who might be informed, but 562 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 2: they just don't have the capacity to fight back. 563 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 4: They consider them too powerless. 564 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see what else here, noisy boys saying shame 565 00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 2: on high Fi call they should have paid her double 566 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: as an apology for what she'd been through Eric saying, 567 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 2: what is sad is how many Lucys are out there 568 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 2: that don't have a D to point them in the 569 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 2: right direction and a Wendy insight to help. I suspect many, 570 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: says Eric, Josie, thinking they should at least have tended 571 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 2: her transport costs. 572 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 3: What a shocking attitude from the retail store is her comment. 573 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, if anybody else listening, maybe somebody listening has had 574 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 2: the opposite that you've had, the experience where it worked 575 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 2: by the book, where you had to abandon a lay 576 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 2: by deal and there were no questions asked, you were refunded. 577 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 3: What was due to you, and it all worked smoothing. 578 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 3: I'm very happy to hear that kind of response as well. 579 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 5: Otherwise I'd get many, so I only get to hear 580 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 5: when they don't go right. Yeah, and I'm always delighted 581 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 5: to step in because, as I say, I'm really fond 582 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 5: of this as a really consumer friendly way to buy 583 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 5: things if you're clever about it. And I get really 584 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 5: annoyed when companies messed it up, because then the word goes, 585 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 5: oh no, don't do layby. It's going to lose your 586 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,239 Speaker 5: money if you canceled and that kind of thing, and 587 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 5: that's just not okay. 588 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to take a short break. 589 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 2: We're back with open line questions after this, and I'll 590 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 2: explain where where he's going to be and when she'll 591 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: be back. 592 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 3: More importantly, after this, you with Cath talk. 593 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: Lois Paparton on lunch. 594 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 9: And sadly they probably looked at the lady truth be 595 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 9: told and told her and thought to themselves, she probably 596 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 9: has to come by transport again. She won't make it. 597 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 9: And thanks Tony. If Wendy wasn't there, this lady would 598 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 9: have been minus the money and she would not have 599 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,239 Speaker 9: been able to buy the school fees for children. So 600 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 9: this is totally unacceptable, and once again, thank you for 601 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 9: sorting it out. But they certainly need to still a imperson, 602 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 9: especially for the transport and the effort that she made. 603 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: Now John also echoing what he was saying, I really 604 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 2: feel like the manager needs to investigate here and check 605 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: that a staff member didn't pocket that money and tell 606 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 2: Lucy she couldn't get her refund. Thank you, I mean 607 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: thank you everybody for the response. And yeah, it is 608 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 2: it's appalling that has happened. It's it's it's and it's 609 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 2: appalling how it was dealt with, but thank Heaven's the 610 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 2: outcome that we were looking for is the outcome we 611 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 2: got to in the end. I do tend to side 612 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 2: with those who are saying I think they could have 613 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 2: done more in terms of apology for what she had 614 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 2: been put through Wendy and then stand than they're waiving 615 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: the ninety rounder cancelation fee. 616 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 3: I do feel that some. 617 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: Just sense of the reality of what it can mean 618 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 2: for a customer. It's you know, if a store tells 619 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 2: me bring it back to the store tomorrow, I grumble 620 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 2: about the time it takes a perpetrol I spent getting there, 621 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 2: in the parking fee that I have to pay again, 622 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: et cetera. 623 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 3: But but it's not an insurmountable hill. But for many 624 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 3: customers it would be an insurmountable hill. 625 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 5: And I think, yeah, I think for for for many 626 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 5: just the money involved, the taxi fare and just the 627 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 5: time and the grind of a slip of going back, 628 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 5: I think many would have just given up sooner. 629 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 2: That D didn't do. Yeah, that D also helped Lucy 630 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 2: keep keep fighting it. Okay, so let me tell you 631 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,479 Speaker 2: quickly about Wendy and then we'll go on to our 632 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: first open line question. So Wendy is not leaving the show. 633 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,959 Speaker 2: She is just taking a very well deserved holiday for 634 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 2: two weeks, and she is going to be completely out 635 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 2: of contact and shutting down her email box and not 636 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 2: opening her laptop. And I'm looking at you saying that 637 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 2: as a direct order, Wendy Murder, because I know you. 638 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,479 Speaker 5: Yeah, I get poem that I'm a workaholics. No major 639 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 5: consumer stories are allowed to. 640 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 7: Break for the next two weeks two but Wendy will 641 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 7: be away next week and the week after we have 642 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 7: lined up other consumer related guests who are going to 643 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 7: be chatting to us about various issues. 644 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: Were having a sort of a consumer boot camp next 645 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 2: week on some of your key rights as a consumer 646 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: that often are overlooked or not widely known, and then 647 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 2: the week thereafter we'll be doing a story about marketing 648 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 2: of baby formula and unhealthy products to children, et cetera. 649 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 2: So that'll keep us busy for the two weeks that 650 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 2: Wendy is away, the eighteenth and the twenty fifth of March, 651 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 2: and then she will be back with us in early April. 652 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 2: The first time firstday of April to pick up the story, 653 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: so have no fear it is merely a two week break, 654 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 2: and then she will be back to hopefully answer questions 655 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 2: like the one that has come in from Dave. On 656 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 2: the email I wanted to talk about bottle deposits, Wendy. 657 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 3: Dave wrote in to tell me he. 658 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 2: Regularly purchases beverages in bottles of the kind for which 659 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 2: deposits are offered. So, in other words, it's meant to 660 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: be that if you go back to the store with 661 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: your empty, undamaged bottle and say, here it is, they 662 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 2: should be refunding you the amount that was built into 663 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 2: the sales. 664 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 3: Price as a deposit. 665 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 4: The key point, Yeah, okay, so. 666 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 2: That price was built in that deposit into the sale price. 667 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: But his comment is that he is struggling to get 668 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 2: that money refunded in full. He often has the experience 669 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: of going into his local outlet and being told we 670 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 2: will only pay you a deposits return if you are 671 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 2: buying more stock. So if he takes back six bottles 672 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 2: but he only wants to buy say two new beer 673 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 2: or bottles of cold ring or whatever it is, they 674 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 2: will only refund him for two bottles that he brought 675 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 2: back because he's only taking two new ones, and he 676 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 2: wanted to know is that legal, because he says they 677 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 2: will not refund the deposit in cash, they will only 678 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 2: credit it towards your next purchase in the amount that 679 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 2: you're making. 680 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 5: No, so that's not what the agreement with the suppliers. 681 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 5: So it's mainly your. 682 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 4: Sab and the Coca Cola landscape for a better word. 683 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 5: So I after, I don't get a lot of these complaints, 684 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 5: but I do from time to time, a couple of 685 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 5: times a year, I will get one of these where 686 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 5: there someone is a stickler, and so they should be because, 687 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 5: as you say, the depositors built into the selling price 688 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 5: of a beverage or beer whatever that is sold in gloss, 689 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 5: and the whole idea is obviously to if you touch 690 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 5: value to it, then there won't be land up his litter, 691 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 5: and you get that whole circular economy. 692 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 2: And it gets obviously rinstance sterilized us. They can be 693 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: reused over twenty times in some case, yes, but actually 694 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 2: and that is what makes them then a planet friendly alternative. 695 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 3: If they're only used once and thrown away, then buying 696 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 3: in glasses not transport. 697 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 2: It costs lots of petrol and all that huge electricity 698 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: to produce it in the first place. So it only 699 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 2: becomes the attractive environmental option if it is reused multiple times. 700 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 3: So it's really important that we do in system. 701 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 5: Yes, you and I both feel very strong about recycling initiatives, 702 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 5: et cetera. So when I've taken it's been a while 703 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 5: since i've taken a complaint with the manufacturers of these products, 704 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 5: and when I do, they say, no, absolutely, we they're 705 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 5: entitled as there should be no conditions attached. No, we'll 706 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 5: give you credit. No while you're bringing back to our bottles, 707 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 5: but you're only buying two, so we're only going to 708 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 5: rEFInd you. 709 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 4: That's p litically. 710 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 5: Nonsense, that the value of that positors is in the 711 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 5: bottle itself. 712 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 3: It's already been paid for. 713 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 4: It's already been paid for. So interestingly, some of these. 714 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 5: Manufacturers have over the years come up with signs that 715 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 5: explicitly for the retailers right the bottle stores or whatever, 716 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 5: to put up and explain to consumers their rights to 717 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 5: these refunds unconditionally. And I would imagine that those retailers 718 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 5: that don't see it to give consumers the deposit refunds 719 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,760 Speaker 5: that they are owed are not going to put. 720 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 4: Up those signs. So I've decided I'm. 721 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 5: Going to well, when I'm back from New Zealand, i 722 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 5: will be look contacting the manufacturers again. I'll make a 723 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 5: note and find out where they are because I think 724 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 5: they should be doing more and if they making, if 725 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 5: they're making the signs, they should be making sure that 726 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 5: the signs are up, you know, that should be in 727 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 5: their whole supply chain. That this is something because we 728 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 5: think about it, it's. 729 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 2: Theft you are, yeah, I mean you are charging the 730 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 2: customer the the deposit is built into the cost of 731 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 2: the bottle. 732 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 3: So when you buy that beer or whatever it is, 733 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 3: cool drink, you've paid for it. 734 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:07,479 Speaker 4: It's a premium prime. 735 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 2: You have paid that deposit and you have the right 736 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 2: to claim it back when you return the bottle. 737 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 3: It's as simple as that. 738 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 4: And also, I mean. 739 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 5: If collectors and that are not going to get deposits 740 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 5: for taking bottles back that they found literate about, it's 741 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 5: also no incentive. So I think it's I think obviously 742 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 5: I don't either not enough people care about it, judging 743 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 5: from my complaints, or it's happening only in some places 744 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 5: and not that widespread. I don't think it's across the 745 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 5: board that every retailer is not paying the deposits back. Otherwise, 746 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 5: I mean, it stands to you would hear about that. 747 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,240 Speaker 4: I would hear about it more often. 748 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 5: So I think in the cases of those that are 749 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 5: choosing not to, we should name and shame and tell 750 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 5: me about it, and and I'll make the call and 751 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 5: I'll you know, I'm going to do it anywhere, but 752 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 5: I don't know which stores contact, But I mean I'll 753 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 5: get hold of the manufacturers and say, what are you 754 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 5: what is your policy? 755 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 4: What are you doing on this? 756 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 5: What are you doing to protect consumers against from from 757 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 5: the policies or some of these retailers that are. 758 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 3: Not honoring what they should be. 759 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 2: I can give you that A Dave has shared with 760 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,839 Speaker 2: me two stores that he regularly frequents where he has 761 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 2: been told this. So I'll pass those on to you, 762 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 2: and maybe you can put the question today as to 763 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 2: why why they're applying town such they are their local 764 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,280 Speaker 2: So I'll pass that on to you and we'll circle 765 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 2: back to it today. Thank you for raising the issue. 766 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 2: I'd be interested to hear. We've got about four minutes 767 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 2: in hand. If if anybody listening is a regular worker 768 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,280 Speaker 2: of the system of bottle deposits and returns? 769 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,720 Speaker 3: Does it work for you generally? 770 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 2: Have you had the same pushback Davis had that the 771 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 2: store will only refund you if you are buying additional 772 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 2: items from the store, for example, or have you found 773 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 2: that you have been given back the deposit no questions 774 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 2: asked when you did return an intact bottle. So, Papa, 775 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 2: what's up to? Seven two five six seven one five 776 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 2: six seven. 777 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 5: I just got something unrelated that I thought I would 778 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 5: give a shout out too. So I'm not great at 779 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 5: working loyalty programs whatever. So I was at dis Kemys 780 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 5: today getting a few things for my trip, as one does, 781 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 5: and I actually asked I under shed and I said, 782 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 5: what is the whatever I got? 783 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 9: How much? 784 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 4: You know, my card money? 785 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 5: And she said whatever the amount was, and I wasn't 786 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 5: very big, and I said, all right, I think I'll 787 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 5: just let it build a bit. And she said, oh, 788 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 5: I should tell you that it's going to expire next 789 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 5: month or whatever the case may be, so maybe you 790 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 5: should use it now. And I just thought that was 791 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 5: such a nice touch, because I probably would have forfeited it, 792 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 5: not wasn't a fortune, but that she just took the 793 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 5: trouble to say I don't know, rather, you know, use 794 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,839 Speaker 5: it now rather than let it expire. And I thought 795 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 5: that was really made me feel good so well as me. 796 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 3: Going I didn't know that those those runds did expire. 797 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 5: So some some of the schemes have expire. I think 798 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 5: pick and paste and there's a standard correction. They used 799 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 5: to because they didn't have an expiry date on their 800 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 5: smart shopper, and then they introduced what you. 801 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 4: Remember, that huge outcra Yeah. 802 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 5: Okay, so those that don't have expired dates usually crow 803 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 5: about it and say we our points don't expires. 804 00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 4: Do check, yes to check. 805 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 2: But I'm with you good on the tenor at discomfour 806 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 2: being upfront about it and warning you of that, and 807 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 2: that's how these things should work. Okay, So Dave to 808 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 2: be continued, Thank you and thank you. I have received 809 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 2: the names of the two stores in question that you 810 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 2: have frequented where you've experienced this, and we'll pass that 811 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 2: on to Wendy for some feedback once she's back in 812 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 2: early April. I think we can squeeze in a quick 813 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 2: one from Reno on the WhatsApp. 814 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 3: This is an unusual one. 815 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 2: Can a store say we only accept returns before eleven am? 816 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 3: No, that's outracious. 817 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 4: Please include that one. 818 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 2: Send it on to you, Reno if you'd like to 819 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 2: tell where you were told that and in what circumstances. 820 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 4: The show coming on for sure, So. 821 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 2: I mean, look, the right of return is one of 822 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,359 Speaker 2: the most frequently raised issues for us, Wendy, and it's 823 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 2: one in which we still have to I think, keep 824 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 2: on circling back to and. 825 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 4: Doing what happens in other markets firsthand down Under. 826 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 3: It'll be interesting. 827 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, wherebe we can do a little you know, compare 828 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 4: some other countries. 829 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 2: It might be, it would be interesting and it actually would 830 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 2: be very interesting to see how our rights as consumers 831 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 2: in South Africa staff stick stuck up against those offered 832 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 2: in other countries. So shop with purpose while you are traveling, 833 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 2: please Wendy, take photos and keep receiving. Okay, no story 834 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 2: writing and no emails. It does mean please for the 835 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 2: next week or two you are not going to get 836 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 2: a response to Wendy's website and email et cetera. 837 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 3: If you are seized. 838 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 2: By an urgent need to relay a consumer issue or 839 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 2: welcome to mail me in the interim and I will 840 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 2: keep them on file. If it is something I can 841 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 2: help you with directly, I will do my best to 842 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:31,879 Speaker 2: do so. 843 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 3: But otherwise, just mail me and it's P I, P 844 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 3: P A H pe per H with. 845 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 2: Three p's in total, peper H at Cape Talk, dot co, 846 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 2: dotza and just put consumer in the subject line so 847 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 2: I know to you know, keep it aside for Wendy 848 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 2: when she's back. But Wendy herself will be completely offline 849 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 2: for the next two weeks, only back with us in 850 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 2: early April. Please do continue to tune in on Wednesday 851 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,439 Speaker 2: afternoons though, because we have lined up some very good 852 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 2: guests for the next two weeks to help all the 853 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 2: chair while Wendy is away. Wendy, with that, the only 854 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 2: thing to say is have a wonderful trip, have a break. 855 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 2: Please don't take your laptop with you, and just enjoy 856 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 2: the time away. 857 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 5: I think I think my family will wrench it out 858 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 5: of my hands. 859 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 4: Of this section possible, No, Okay, So. 860 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 2: That's where we say goodbye for now to Wendy Nola. 861 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 2: But she will be back with us in early April.