1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: You're with Clement Manateela two. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 2: But right now we start our conversation with David Smith, 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 2: who is the Washington bureau chief for the Guardian newspaper, 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: who speaks to us now about that decision that Donald Trump, 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 2: the President of the US made to suspend these strikes 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 2: on Iran power plans. And I started I recorded this 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: conversation with David Smith quite early this morning before we 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: started the show at nine o'clock, and I started by 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 2: asking him what the reaction is. Is this an exit 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 2: strategy from what he's hearing in Washington, DC. Is this 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: an acceptance of defeat or does the US president has 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 2: a plan up his sleeve. 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 3: I think there's a great deal of confusion and disarray 14 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 3: and just not knowing if Donald Trump has any clear 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 3: pathway here or strategy at all. Of course, over the weekend, 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 3: he had threatened to a leash dire destruction on Iran's 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 3: power plants, and Iran had warned in retaliation it would 18 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 3: target energy infrastructure in the Middle East region that could 19 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 3: have been absolutely crippling to the entire global economy. So 20 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 3: suddenly on Monday, Trump did back away from that and 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 3: claim that the actually been talks underway for a couple 22 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 3: of days with Iran, and they were making good progress. 23 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: They were hoping to make. 24 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: A deal, so that seemed positive, but Iran denied any 25 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 3: such talks were taking place, just further deepening the confusion, 26 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: and Iran claimed this is just Trump's way to buy 27 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 3: some time because he's worried about what this will do 28 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 3: to the oil markets and the economic disruption it will cause. 29 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 3: And so we remain with huge question marks, really, and 30 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 3: quite a few competators in the US have pointed out 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 3: it's a very rare situation where you don't know whether 32 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 3: to trust the American president or trust a theocratic, corrupt 33 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 3: regime in Iran. But it has really come to this 34 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 3: given that Trump has been caught making some false statements 35 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 3: in the past. 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course, as you say, there are false 37 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: statements that have been made in the past, so you 38 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: just never know where things are now. Is this true 39 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: or is it not? But just to understand though, what 40 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 2: has been the US's role and actions in recent times. 41 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: So over the last week, for instance, have they continued 42 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: to target and fire missiles at Iran or that was 43 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: more led by Israel? 44 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 4: Oh? 45 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 3: Yes, the US is still very heavily involved in the 46 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: military operation and defense Couty Pete Hex have said on 47 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: Thursday that would be the biggest package yet of military 48 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 3: ordnance and missiles, and I think in the day since 49 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 3: they kept up that pace. Certainly Israel is very heavily 50 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 3: involved as well, and said it launched a wide scale 51 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 3: strikes on Iran on Monday morning, and of course Iran 52 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: is firing back and launched the missiles at the United 53 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 3: Arab Emeirates and Saudi Arabia and. 54 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: Has targeted Israel itself. 55 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 3: And so while Trump waffles about diplomacy and talks and 56 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: supposedly trying for a deal, the other war continues to rage, 57 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 3: and the very few journalists have been able to get 58 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 3: on the ground in Iran do describe scenes of devastation, 59 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: with many innocent civilians killed. There's been estimates of at 60 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 3: least fourteen hundred deaths in Iran, Buildings that have nothing 61 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 3: to do with the war being flattened and a scene 62 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 3: of destruction there. And I think there's a great concern 63 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: how does the US extricate itself from its conflicts, given 64 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 3: that Iran has blockaded the Strait of Horror moves and 65 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 3: that means that oil shipping can't get out and has 66 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 3: big implications for energy markets. 67 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wonder if President Donald Trump feels like 68 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,239 Speaker 2: he's now caught between the rock and a hard place, 69 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 2: because speaking of the strait of Homos, it's almost like 70 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: you try to get the even Native partners or European 71 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 2: partners to assist, many of them have said, we're not 72 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: getting involved in that. And now it's almost like, oh, 73 00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 2: he's now pushed to the negotiating table because there are 74 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: people that he thought we're going to assists that have 75 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: not come through to the party. 76 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 3: Yes, he really did seem to have this assumption that 77 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 3: all the Western allies would come running. And of course 78 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 3: when they said thanks, but no thanks, this is not 79 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: our war and our populations have no interest in this, 80 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 3: Trump lashed out and described them as cowards and said 81 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 3: NATO is a paper tiger and it's really sound relations 82 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 3: with for example, Keir Starmer, the British leader. And yes, 83 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 3: it does leave Trump in this dilemma. Now he can 84 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 3: walk away tomorrow and try to declare victory, but that 85 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 3: will ring rather hollow with the Iranian regime still very 86 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 3: much in place and the straight Orf moves still blockaded 87 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: or he has to intensify, and he has sent thousands of. 88 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: Marines into the region. 89 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: There's certainly a lot of speculation that some sort of 90 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 3: military offensive, maybe around the island of Harg is planned. 91 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 3: We could see American boots on the ground, and the 92 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 3: Treasury Secretary Scott on Sunday described this as escalating in 93 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 3: order to de escalate, as you can imagine, got some 94 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 3: criticism for that. So, yes, between a rock and a 95 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 3: hard place and no obvious way out. And I think 96 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 3: one of the theories here is that Trump enjoyed a 97 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 3: lot of success bombing around last year and capturing the 98 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 3: leader of Venezuela and got carried away thinking. 99 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: He was invincible. 100 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 3: But this particular issue is much more complicated. 101 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. From the beginning, David, the intention was resumed change, 102 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: I mean, is it all was very clear about it. 103 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: Donald Trump when he announced that they had struck Iran, 104 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: he called on the people of Iran to rise up 105 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 2: against the regime. And in fact, when I was listening 106 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: to that interview that the former director of Counter Terrorism 107 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: Center Joe Kent did with Kataka Coulson, he indicated there 108 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: that if you kill, for instance, the religious leader the Ayatola, 109 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: the regime survives, and it looks like this was a 110 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: miscalculation from Israel and US's strategy. They thought, let's strike 111 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 2: and then let's get the people to rise up. But 112 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: we haven't really seen any protests calling for regime change, 113 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: have we? 114 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 4: No? 115 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: I mean almost non. 116 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 3: I believe in Irano though information is hard to come by, 117 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 3: but basically people have been told if they protest, they 118 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 3: will be arrested or killed. It's still extremely difficult to 119 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 3: express political voice in that way. 120 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: And yes, I mean there are slightly. 121 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 3: Divergent dolls here, and I think Benjamin ass Yahu of 122 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 3: Israel is totally committed to regime change. I think Trump 123 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 3: and the US probably saw it as a bonus, and 124 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 3: those opening remarks on the first day of the war, 125 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 3: Trump did suggest this was a historic opportunity for the 126 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: people to rise up, and I think both of them 127 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 3: probably did, yes, make a miscalculation, assuming that would be easier. 128 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: Than this actually is. 129 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 3: And we've heard restoring from Trump talking about, you know, 130 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 3: we've taken out the top leaders and then the tier 131 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 3: below that and the tier below that, and implying that 132 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: that counts as some sort of regime change. But in 133 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 3: reality that regime is still in place despite having lost 134 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 3: numerous personnel, and they determined to fight on to not 135 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 3: give in. For them, victory is purely survival. If the 136 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 3: regime is still in place, then the Iranians will feel 137 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 3: that they've won, and it may be the case that 138 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 3: the US has to give up on that goal no 139 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 3: particular alternative to it. Again, I think they hoped the 140 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 3: Ayatola would be replaced by somebody more compliant, as we 141 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 3: saw in that case with Venezuela after Maduro. And yet 142 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: in fact it was the Iatola's son who was described 143 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 3: as even more of a hardliner, just a bit several 144 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 3: decades younger. So that whole regime change plan has certainly 145 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 3: not worked out so far. 146 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, is there still coordination or let me call it 147 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 2: alignment between Israel and the US and as far as 148 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: strategy is concerned towards this war, because just a week ago, 149 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: the largest natural guests field was a TechEd Israel. That's 150 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: the South Pass guests field, which is shared by Iran 151 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 2: and kat and President Trump said that they knew nothing 152 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 2: about this attack by Israel and made an assurance that 153 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: no more attacks will be made by Israel on this 154 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: important infrastructure. I mean, this for me was quite an 155 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 2: interesting response from Donald Trump and sort of gave you 156 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: a sense of how he seemed to disagree with the 157 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 2: action by Israel on that important energy infrastructure, because my 158 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: understanding was that he made it clear energy infrastructure is 159 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 2: a Nogo zone. 160 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 3: Which made it's all the more curious when Trump himself 161 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 3: was then threatening to target energy infrastructure and just underlined 162 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 3: some of the contradictions here and altering signals. I think, 163 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 3: in broad terms, the US and Israel have been closely 164 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 3: aligned and the military corporation is strong and impressive everything 165 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 3: they've been able to achieve in terms of degrading the 166 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 3: Iranian defenses. But when you look closer, yes, there are 167 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 3: some disagreements, such as the example you give. There's certainly 168 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 3: different strategic objectives in the medium to long term. I 169 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 3: think NeSSI Yahoo sees this as a decade long project 170 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: to remove the Iranian regime, and one former national security 171 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 3: advisor in the US was just saying, Israel has taken 172 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 3: the view now that a broken Iran would be a 173 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 3: positive development for them, better just to have the country 174 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 3: broken and falling apart than what they've lived with for decades. 175 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 3: The US does not feel it has that luxury. It 176 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 3: thinks a shattered country with potential civil war with potentially 177 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 3: millions of refugees would obviously be a disaster for the 178 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 3: region and the world, and could have all sorts of 179 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 3: secondary consequences in terms of where do these refugees go 180 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 3: and how they treated by other countries. So I think 181 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 3: it's one to watch, but it's a marriage of convenience 182 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 3: at the moment. 183 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: But yes, these two countries could diverge. 184 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: That's really fascinating. And just as we were up up, 185 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: I want to circle back to how we started this conversation. 186 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, of course taking this decision to suspend to 187 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: suspend strikes on Iranian power plans. Do we know what 188 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 2: in these negotiations he's announced and what America is looking for. 189 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: Is it looking for Iran to confirm we are not 190 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: going to continue within Richmond, or we confirm that we 191 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: are not going to build a nuclear weapon. Is there 192 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: some kind of deal that he's trying to get into 193 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 2: here about the nuclear weapons or do you from the 194 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 2: sense you're getting, the negotiations are more about just this 195 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: current war and what the two parties need to do 196 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: to try and get it to end. 197 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, his comments to reporters on Monday were 198 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 3: somewhat confusing, and he declined to say exactly who he's 199 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 3: been talking to, so it seemed to be a person 200 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 3: at the top. He then talked about they were fifteen 201 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: points they were working on in a deal, but then 202 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 3: he said points one to three were around not having 203 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 3: a nuclear weapon, and in this fog, it does seem 204 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 3: if there's one goal that cossic comes up, it is 205 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: denying around that capability. Trump has always said that's an 206 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 3: apse to non starter. Now that might partly be around 207 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 3: agreeing to that. It might also be the US saying 208 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 3: we have to secure enriched uranium and either remove it 209 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 3: or dilute it so it can't be used to build 210 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 3: a nuclear weapon. 211 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: We shall have to see about that. 212 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 3: You would assume these fifteen points, or more accurately thirteen 213 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 3: points would include something about reopening the Strait of Hormus. 214 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 3: So in the past, the US has also talked about 215 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 3: ending around support for terrorist proxy groups in the region. 216 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 3: But ultimately, yeah, we don't entirely know, and we don't 217 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 3: know who he was talking to. There's role report suggesting 218 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 3: it was a speaker of the Iranian Parliament, although he 219 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 3: seemed to deny that. And I think many people think 220 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 3: it's more likely it's intermediary is here, maybe not Trump himself, 221 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 3: but interlocut of some Turkey, Egypt and Pakistan passing messages 222 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 3: between the two countries. 223 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: And what are Americans thinking now about the war? I 224 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 2: know there've been polls previously that have indicated a lot 225 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: of them are not keen. What are we seeing now 226 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 2: on the ground in America? Are more and more people 227 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: warming up to this war in Iran? 228 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: Well? 229 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 3: I stand by for Saturday when we have the third 230 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 3: No Kings protests in the US, which is really opposition 231 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 3: to what's perceived as Trump's authoritarianism, and all time record 232 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 3: numbers predicted they're maybe about nine million, I think, and 233 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 3: it's about three thousand protests. And in the meantime, yeah, 234 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 3: opinion polls are still strongly opposed to this war. I mean, 235 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 3: I think many Republicans, many Trump supporters, do welcome the 236 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: idea of changing the Iranian regime, but they're much more 237 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 3: lukewarm on just the idea of foreign interventions and very 238 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 3: concerned about what effects it will have on not only 239 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 3: the price of a petrol but other supermarket items, all 240 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 3: of which could be affected by the energy crisis. So overall, yes, 241 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 3: still broad public suspicion of this war, but unlike past 242 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 3: President Trump doesn't seem to care too much and he 243 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 3: did not spend a lot of time trying to sell 244 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 3: it to the public. 245 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: David Smith, thanks for making time for us. 246 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: Thank you. 247 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 2: He's the bureau chief in Washington, d c. For The 248 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 2: Garden Newspaper. 249 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: Seven The Clements show, Let's walk, Let's talk. 250 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: Twenty five minutes after ten out Claud, Let's bring in 251 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 2: doctor Hamidriza Rii, who is with the Iranian embassy. He 252 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: speaks on behalf of the Iranian embassy. Doctor all right, 253 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: thank you so much for us joining us. 254 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 5: Good morning, Clement. 255 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 4: How are you. 256 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: I'm all right? Thank you. 257 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 4: So. 258 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 2: President Trump yesterday announced that they are postponing military strikes 259 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 2: on Iranian power plants. He said this is because there've 260 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 2: been some good and productive discussions and conversations taking place 261 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: over the last two days. But some Iranian officials yesterday 262 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 2: came out and said that's not true. Are you able 263 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 2: to explain to us what's going on? 264 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 4: Clement? I think that they decided to postpone, what they 265 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 4: call it, postpone the strike on the power plant because 266 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 4: they knew that if they strike our power plants, they 267 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 4: will see the consequences that will be so harsh for them. 268 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 5: About the negotiations that we are talking about, as you 269 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 5: heard from our officials in Iran, nothing happened yet, no 270 00:17:54,680 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 5: discussion was there. For sure, we will with the negotiation 271 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,239 Speaker 5: and talking as the best way to solve all of 272 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 5: the problems in the world. 273 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 4: But there must be a guarantee for us to avide 274 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 4: to avoid any other attack against Iran. 275 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: Okay, And as it stands now, when you say that 276 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 2: if they strike our power plans there will be consequences, 277 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 2: are you talking more about just the economic consequences and 278 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 2: catastrophe globally or are we now talking the Gulf countries 279 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 2: neighboring you as it run, may also be targeted. 280 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 4: Clement. The consequences that I'm talking about is the principle 281 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 4: of I for I if our power plants has been understrike, 282 00:18:54,600 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 4: so for sure, as our military commanders talked, the assets 283 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 4: of the United States and design regime will be targeted. Also, 284 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 4: the power plants in occupied Lens will be targeted. So 285 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 4: other than the economic consequences that the world will suffer. 286 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 4: Regarding that our retaliation will be the same as they 287 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 4: do to us, we will do the same to them. 288 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 2: But then how would you do to them, because I 289 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: imagine you wouldn't go and attack America's power plants. You 290 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: would need to maybe attack I don't know countries that 291 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: are offering basis. Oh, there's Israel, so then that, yes, yes, 292 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 2: the attack Israel. But what about the countries in the Gulf, 293 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 2: because that's been a concern and I know you're the 294 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 2: officials in your administration previously said we will not be 295 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 2: targeted in our neighbors anymore. So if Donald Trump, the 296 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 2: president of the US, moves on these attacks after five days, 297 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: if God forbid, there's no agreement, will you target the 298 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 2: neighboring countries, especially the ones that are offering US bass. 299 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 4: See the Persian Gulf countries who gave their soil and 300 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 4: their air space to USA and Israel. They faced some 301 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 4: consequences that they saw the military basis, the assets and 302 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 4: the hides out of the US regime and the Zionist 303 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 4: regim will be our legitimate targets. 304 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: Okay, got you, doctor Hamidriza Rii, Iranian embassy spokesperson here 305 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: in South Africa, Thank you so much for making time 306 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,120 Speaker 2: for us as here there. They're not confirming the talks 307 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: with the US administration, and it could very well be 308 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 2: their tactic. Maybe there are talks taking place. As I 309 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 2: said earlier on the open line War, it's not just 310 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: about a tillerye amory. It's also about information. It's also 311 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 2: about how you possession yourself in public because you want 312 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 2: to come across as a country of strength. Is that 313 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 2: what Iran is saying here, is doing here by denying 314 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 2: this talks. Is that what America is doing by confirming 315 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 2: that there are these talks that are currently underway. Well, 316 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 2: I guess we'll find out over the next four days. 317 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 2: It's taking us to ten thirteen now.