1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: You're with Clement Manya Tela on seven o two. Let's 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: walk the talk streaming on the Prime Media Plus. 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 2: Adds TV channel eight five six. 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: Ninety two point seven and one O six FM. 5 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: Seven minutes after nine o'clock. Dumela, Welcome to the Tuesday 6 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: edition of the Clement Manya Tela Show. It's great to 7 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: heavy with us here on seven oh two. I trust 8 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: and hope you're good this morning. There seven oh two. 9 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: Open line starts now on OH one one eight eight 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 2: three oh seven oh two. The what's up line is 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: oh seven two, seven oh two one seven oh two. 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: Did American soldiers kill over one hundred and sixty young 13 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: girls in Iran? Well, evidence seems to suggest so. Remember 14 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 2: that strike that happened on an elementary school about a 15 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: week ago that's killed scores of children. It actually remains 16 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 2: the deadliest incident of civilian casualties. Initially the suggestion was 17 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: that Israel did it. One hundred and sixty five young 18 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 2: innocent girls gone killed. And now it appears the country 19 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 2: that has consistently claimed it doesn't target civilians in conflicts 20 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 2: oars maybe responsible. I mean, there wasn't a lot of 21 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: surprise when it was suggested that Israel is behind this 22 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 2: attack on this girl's school. It wasn't surprising because I mean, 23 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: it wouldn't be the first time Israel kills children during war. 24 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: They did so in Gaza in their thousands. Thousands of 25 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: children were killed, according to aid organizations on the ground. 26 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: So if this was Israel that did it, it's tragic 27 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: but certainly not surprising. That's why the world has swiftly 28 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 2: moved on as if nothing really happened. Mhmm. It's almost 29 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: like everybody was okay with the suggestion that, oh, Israel 30 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 2: may have done it, but there will be outraged now 31 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: if it's America that was responsible. CNN is reporting that 32 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 2: it has sufficient evidence that the attack on the Iranian 33 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: girls school was carried out by the US military. Re 34 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: Reuters is also reporting that a US investigation points to 35 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: the US responsibility on that strike on the girls elementary school. 36 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: Listen to what, in fact, the various officials in the 37 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: Trump administration said about this attack on this girl's school, 38 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 2: and you will hear Trump. You will then hear carried 39 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 2: In Livid, the spokesperson, and then you'll hear Pete Heseth, 40 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: who is the Secretary of War in the US. 41 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 3: There's a there's a for that showed that an American 42 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 3: missile strike in a Tomahawk missile likely destroyed that Iranian girls' school. 43 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 3: So will the Americans in the US accept any responsibility strike? 44 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 4: And I will say that the Tomahawk, which is one 45 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 4: of the most powerful weapons around, is used by you know, 46 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 4: is sold and used by other countries, you know that. 47 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 4: And whether it's Iran who also has some Tomahawks, they 48 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 4: wish they had more. But whether it's Iran or somebody else, 49 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 4: the fact that it's Tomahawk at Tomahawk is very generic. 50 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 4: It's sold to other countries. But that's being investigated right now. 51 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 5: In the United States air strike at girls elementary school 52 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 5: and kill one. 53 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 6: Hundred and seventy five people, not that we know of, 54 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 6: Sean and the Department of War is investigating this matter. 55 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 6: And I would just tell you very strongly, the United 56 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 6: States of America does not target civilians, unlike the rogue 57 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 6: Iranian regime that targets civilians, that kills children, that has 58 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 6: killed thousands of their own people in the past several weeks, 59 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 6: and uses propaganda quite effectively, and unfortunately, many people in 60 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 6: this room have fallen for that propaganda. 61 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 7: Can you give us an update on what the administration knows? 62 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 8: What you know now about the reported strike on a girls' 63 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 8: school in southern Iran on Saturday? 64 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 7: All I know, All I can say is that we're 65 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 7: investigating that. 66 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 9: We of course never target civilian targets, but we're taking 67 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 9: a look at investigating that. 68 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: So all these officials are still investigating saying that we're 69 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,239 Speaker 2: still looking into it. I mean, the reason they're looking 70 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: into it is because they see that there's a possibility 71 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 2: the US may have been involved. But these are children 72 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: we're talking about. If you have no heart for innocent children, 73 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: I worry what defines us as humans doesn't matter how 74 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 2: much you hate the Ayatollah or the regime or administration 75 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: in Iran, oh even in Israel. It doesn't that you 76 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: may hate Benjamin NETTINAO. When they are children that are 77 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: being killed like that and you want to find justifications 78 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: for it, what kind of a human are you? How 79 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: do you justify a three year old being killed like that? 80 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: And you want to try and justify that because that's 81 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 2: an innocent child. The US always says it's military does 82 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: not target civilians, and that's primarily because it is strictly 83 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: prohibited by international humanitarian law. Well, who cares about laws now, 84 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 2: even customary law which considers such acts to be war crimes, 85 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 2: but also the US policy mundates taking precautions to minimize 86 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: civilian hum And now we're sitting with one hundred and 87 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: sixty five or young innocent women, girls that are gone killed, 88 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: taken out just like that, and the US is likely responsible. 89 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that? You can give us 90 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: a call and then I want us to help each 91 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 2: other connect the dots. Listening to the testimony yesterday of 92 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 2: Northwest businessmen Suleiman Karim mentioning Morgan Hanguani Maumela, I couldn't 93 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 2: help but wonder, given what we know so far about 94 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: this man, Morgan Hanguani Maummela, the allegations that have been 95 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 2: mounting against him, how could it be that he is 96 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: not arrested to this point, oh hasn't even been called 97 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: to appear before the Commission or the ad hoc committee. 98 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: Because there's a web here and Kat mcgalla sit well, 99 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: accist at this stage you seem to be at the 100 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 2: top of this web. And then the benefits of trickled 101 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 2: down not only to senior officers, but also some business 102 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: people that kat Matala has relationships with. Salim I mean 103 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 2: Suliman Karim is one of them. And now, for the 104 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 2: first time ever there is evidence of a transactional relationship 105 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 2: between Hanguani Maumela and kat Matlala. This is for the 106 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: first time ever officially on the record at the Majlanga Commission. 107 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 2: I mean, he will now have to be called to 108 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: the commission. It wouldn't make sense that the Commission doesn't 109 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: call this man to come in account, but is even 110 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: in the country. He's probably likely to put up a fight. 111 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: But these loans that Suliman was talking about very fluid 112 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: and unexplained, very weird, and he wants us to believe 113 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: that he has just been used as a middleman to 114 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: pay Maumela. Let's help each other connect the dots here. 115 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: What's going on? What is so powerful about this man 116 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: that we don't even know if the authoritism called him 117 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 2: to tell him that you're being investigated or All we 118 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: know is they into his house and they confiscated millions 119 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: and millions worth of vehicles. But nobody even has a 120 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: recent picture of him. Where does he live? And maybe 121 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: that speaks to the power that's concentrated around this man. 122 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: Maybe he's linked to really powerful people that I'm making 123 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: sure that he gets protected. But who could those people be. 124 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. I'm just saying, let's 125 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: help each other connect the dots. 126 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: Clement Manateela streaming on the Prime Media Plus. 127 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: At Dear TV channel eight five, nine point seven and 128 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,359 Speaker 2: one sixt. 129 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 10: Them one in Clement two, I think this is a 130 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 10: very disheartening for the King of Children. Come on, children 131 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 10: are in they are not part of the war. That's 132 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 10: what has been happening. It's been happening in Israel. In Palestine, 133 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 10: deduced Journees's target plane practice and then blame Ramas. Now 134 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 10: we have a problem. They are doing it. United States 135 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 10: just trying the queue is disheppening and it can be 136 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 10: anybody's cut that the. 137 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 11: Morning, Clement, one of the statements that has come up 138 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 11: from the r RGC a couple of days ago actually 139 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 11: admitted that it is one of their missiles that actually 140 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 11: failed upon launch. 141 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 7: And who in their right mind would build and girls 142 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 7: elementary school five hundred meters from missile launching sites? Are 143 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 7: they crazy? And they have the shows that they don't 144 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 7: really care about their citizens. You would never do such 145 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 7: a thing in a normal society anyway. And secondly, they 146 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 7: are total kamaining. Have you read his manu or that 147 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 7: he wrote about how to run the society? That it's 148 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 7: okay to marry off nine year old girls, so they 149 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 7: don't care a dawn about the young girls and the 150 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 7: young women. 151 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 12: Good morning, clemen, this is the same. I'm actually I 152 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,719 Speaker 12: don't I don't know, I don't know what to say. 153 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 12: I've actually fairly shocked that you that you and there's 154 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 12: other people who believe that USA does not target civilians 155 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 12: during its invasions. Have you forgotten what they've done in Iraq? 156 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 12: I mean, there's massive evidence in Afghanistan. Go and read 157 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 12: about an article called the Ruthless Presidency of Barack Obama, 158 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 12: where it mentions that during his presidency in the countries 159 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 12: where USA was busy keeping people, they actually were tagget 160 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 12: to men and boys of a military of military going age. 161 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 12: So this one that USA doesn't take it civilians, since 162 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 12: so far as they do, that's how they are party. 163 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 12: They call those collecteraltim is. Just like, there's massive evilience. 164 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 12: This is not only in this scale issue. USA does 165 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 12: that true. 166 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you missed the sarcasm there. Earlier, my friend, 167 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 2: I said, I didn't say the US doesn't target civilians. 168 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 2: I said a country that always claims it doesn't target civilians. 169 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: And I was being sarcastic because of course we have 170 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:50,359 Speaker 2: seen the kind of disaster that the US's intervention, military 171 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: intervention in several countries has left, and they are civilians 172 00:11:53,800 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 2: that have been targeted. There, I am. I mean, there's 173 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: another voice note that came here. But the An toler 174 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: didn't care about the girls. Okay, sure, So these poor 175 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 2: little humans who are so unfortunate to be born in 176 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 2: a country whose leader doesn't care about them, I hear, 177 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 2: So let's just take them out, let's kill them. Really 178 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 2: is that the solution? By the way, if it was 179 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: even the Eyea toller that ordered to kill him, or 180 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 2: it was Iran, that would still be enough for you 181 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 2: and now to be outraged. I don't care much about 182 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 2: who's responsible here. I care about civilian lives, young mostly 183 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: so young children are dead, one hundred and sixty five 184 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 2: odd gone killed. How could you justify that? And I 185 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: think you probably need to reflect if if your heart 186 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: doesn't move when you hear that children are dying, whether 187 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: they're dying in Gaza and being killed, and they are innocent, 188 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 2: but they are targeted by these strikes. So they are 189 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 2: being killed in Israel or they are being killed in Iraq, 190 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 2: in Iran. If that doesn't consent you and you still 191 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: want to come up with all sorts of justifications, My goodness, 192 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: what are we becoming? What are we willing to justify? 193 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 2: It's quite scary where we're going as a world, as 194 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 2: a society, just because we've got blind loyalty and we 195 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 2: don't understand that two things can exist at the same time. 196 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 2: You can support America but still be outraged at the 197 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 2: possibility that they are responsible. You can support Israel and 198 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 2: still be outraged that there are young kids that are 199 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: being killed at the hands of that regime. Oh wait, 200 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 2: we don't call it a regime. You must call it 201 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: a government or an administration. It's twenty two after night. 202 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 7: Your voice, your station, your underlying. 203 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: Okay, let's try and connect the dots. There's something happening 204 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: that you and I as citizens of this country need 205 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: to be concerned about. There is a man who seems 206 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: to be so powerful that even investigative reporters who are 207 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: so brilliant in this country are unable to get to 208 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 2: him or even get to his most recent movement. And 209 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 2: I don't think that speaks to the failure of the 210 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: investigative journalist. I think it speaks to the power of 211 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: the men that we're talking about. Morgan Hangjuani Maumela. Who 212 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: is this man? You know he lives quite a fleshy lifestyle. 213 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 2: What do we know about him? Maybe that's where we 214 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: should begin. The SIU have attached his assets. He is 215 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 2: alleged to be part of a syndicate that looted about 216 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 2: two billion ran from the Tembisa Hospital. I mean, did 217 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 2: you see those Lamborghinis. That's the man we're talking about. 218 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 2: What else do we know about this man? Well, we 219 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: know that he is linked to people like kat Matala 220 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: and you'll find out now as I play you some clips. 221 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 2: And please just bear with me because I want to 222 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: set this up and I want you to also help me. 223 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 2: I don't have the answers. I'm saying as a society, 224 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: as a community, as a seven or two family, let's 225 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: try and connect the dots. What is it about this 226 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 2: man that he's so difficult to pin I would have 227 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: thought the evidence of the SIU is so overwhelming. Hmm. 228 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: I would have thought the text messages we have seen 229 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: that link him to kat Macala and the payments kat 230 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: Macala was making to him, we now have evidence of 231 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: that and someone who's made those payments as quote unquote 232 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 2: to the middleman. I would have thought that by now 233 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: this man is either arrested or at the very least 234 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: there's an investigation that is advanced around him. Oh, he's 235 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 2: already been called to come and testify the Adult Committee 236 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: or the State Capture Commission. Is he even in the country. 237 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 2: Maybe that's what makes it complicated. Can anybody even get 238 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: a hold of him. Let's begin with the Legal Counsul 239 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: for Suliman Karim yesterday they seemed to have issues with 240 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 2: Kareem taking questions about Morgan Hangjuani Maumela. In fact, let's 241 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: listen to what the Legal Council said yesterday at the 242 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 2: Malana Commission. 243 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 5: Are the incorrect statement that mister Marmela is referred to 244 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 5: in the ten six notice. If you look at the 245 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,719 Speaker 5: ten six notice you will see and I think this 246 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 5: is the notice even on five Decem betweenty twenty five, 247 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 5: there have been several notices. This is the last notice 248 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 5: that we have on record five decem betweeny twenty five. 249 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 5: There is no mention of mister Marmela. There peace bills 250 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 5: such as mister Brown, Mahotzi, et cetera, refer to no 251 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 5: mention of mister Marmela. There is a reference to mister 252 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 5: Marmela in the summons, but the summons requires that to 253 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 5: be dealt with here and not in this statement. The 254 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 5: ten six notice pertends to what should be in the statement, 255 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 5: and there was nothing relating to mister Marmela. But all 256 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 5: of that is also by the way the Commission knew 257 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 5: and had these documents and knew it was going. 258 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: To rely on it. 259 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 5: It shouldn't play a cat and mouse game to say 260 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 5: we'll wait and see what you say and then we'll 261 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 5: produce what we have. This is not an adversarial proceeding. 262 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 5: It's not an attempt to try and ambush and catch 263 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 5: witnesses art We all know the purpose is fact finding 264 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 5: and in the spirit of acting in a manner which 265 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 5: is transparent and fair. Those documents could all have been 266 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 5: put up and should have been put up. 267 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 2: So that's them trying to move around the mention of Ila. 268 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 2: Why would the lawyers try to avoid this man being 269 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 2: mentioned at the commission? Oh wait, the Minutemela gets mentioned 270 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 2: officially at the Commission, that would mean the Commission would 271 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: have to call him. So it makes sense, makes sense 272 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: why there's always been an attempt to try and avoid 273 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: this man being mentioned at these commissions, because that would 274 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: mean he has to come. Well, the horse has bolted, 275 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 2: he's been mentioned and he has to come. And what's 276 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 2: even worse is that the Commission may even recommend that 277 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: he be investigated for fraud and corruption. Why because, as 278 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: you can hear now, Suliman Karim sent him moneies that 279 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 2: were coming from kat Macala, which could be proceeds of crime, 280 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 2: which would make Morgan Mammela culpable. 281 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 13: When you said Morgan Morgan sorted, you were referring to 282 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 13: a payment of five hundred thousand rands for the benefit 283 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 13: of mister. 284 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: Mamata, that's right. 285 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 13: And that payment was to Lutaga Trading Enterprise, that's right. 286 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 13: Who asked you to pay mister Malmela, mister mclalla, And 287 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 13: who asked you to pay mister Malmela through Lutaga Trade Enterprise. 288 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 2: Mister Malmela. 289 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 13: Mister Malmmela asked you to pay your target trading in 290 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 13: When did you speak to mister Malmela to receive that instruction? 291 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 14: It was before before we got that payment. He'd already 292 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 14: been talking to me saying that he has spoken to 293 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 14: mister McCalla and that he asked mister mclala and mister 294 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 14: mcclana needs to pay his money. And mister mcalla said him, 295 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 14: he's talking to me. 296 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 13: And so when were these conversations that you had with 297 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 13: mister Malmela. 298 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 14: So sometime just before the payments Feb a few days 299 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 14: before the payment. 300 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 13: And he he said to you, mister mclala me money. 301 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 14: Mister McCalla approached me and said, look, I need you 302 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 14: to pay mister Moltmela. He wanted me to pay a 303 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 14: big amount and I said, how do I pay him 304 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 14: half of this money? Just doesn't make sense. I mean, 305 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 14: you're not paying me, but now you want me to 306 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 14: pay seven th firfty of this money. Says no, mister 307 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 14: Mommilla needs the money. 308 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 2: Can you do this? 309 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 14: I said, look, I can't do seven th firfty and 310 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 14: I then agreed to do five hundred because we knew 311 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 14: that there were more invoices coming or he knew I 312 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 14: should say and let. 313 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: Me rephrase it. 314 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 14: Mis Mcalla said to me, there's more inviices that I 315 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 14: still owe to him, and then he will then tap 316 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 14: me up on the next payment. But in total he 317 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 14: wanted me to give mister Mommalla seven hundred and fifty. 318 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 2: Thousands, and he ended up giving mister Mammel about five 319 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 2: hundred thousand rand because he said I couldn't give him 320 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 2: the seven hundred and fifty thousand right as a possibility 321 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 2: that that five hundred thousand rand that flowed. In fact, 322 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 2: there was over a million was paid to Salim. Was 323 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 2: a two point five or one point something million that 324 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 2: was paid to Suleiman Karim. He takes some of that 325 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 2: money and he sends us to Morgan Hanguani, Maumela and 326 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 2: mister Karim, who testified yes that he wants us to 327 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 2: believe that no, no, no, kat Matala said he owes 328 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 2: Maumela money. So he asked me to take some of 329 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: the money he sent me to give to Maumela. They 330 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: probably think we children, we're not smart enough to see 331 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 2: what is happening here at the time. It's possible that. 332 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 2: Remember before the SAPs tender was canceled about fifty million, 333 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 2: there was some millions that were sent to Medicare twenty 334 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: four kat Mattala's company, and then money starts moving around. 335 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: So the question you and I have to ask is, 336 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: if let's say kat Mcala was paying Hanguani Maomela, what 337 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: belongs to him because he may have assisted maybe with 338 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 2: this SAPs contract. How did he assist? Who does Hanguani 339 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 2: ma Mila know? Who is so powerful to probably have 340 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 2: influenced a tender in favor of kat Magala's company. There 341 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 2: are a few clips I want to play to you 342 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: that will probably help us understand why this man is 343 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 2: so powerful and why he's being protected. We'll do that 344 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: after the latest and eyewitness news headlines. It's nine thirty 345 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 2: one your voice, your station, your on seven eighteen Killy, 346 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 2: three minutes before ten outlack. We're trying to connect the 347 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 2: dots around Mongen Hanguani Maumela. By the way, I see 348 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: at the Maclanga Commission. Now the lawyers for Suleiman Karim, 349 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 2: who has basically now revealed that there is a possibility 350 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 2: that he may have sent proceeds of crime that moved 351 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 2: from kat Macala. He was a conduit that sent that 352 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 2: money to Hanguani Maumela because Macala told him that he 353 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 2: owes Hanguani money. His lawyers are now arguing this morning 354 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: at the Mclanga Commission for another postponement. Why. I mean, 355 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 2: this man has tried so many tricks to avoid appearing 356 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: before the commission, and I think now we understand why 357 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: now they're trying to stop his appearance once again. They 358 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: are trying to ask for a postponement on what basis 359 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 2: We're trying to make sen of Hanjuani Morgan Maumela. Who 360 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 2: is he? Who's protecting him? Because it's just not making sense. 361 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 2: It is just not making sense that he is still 362 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: not his recent pictures are not splashed around in the papers. 363 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 2: He where is he? Is he even in the country. 364 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 2: The lawyers are now saying, representing Suliman Karim, that they 365 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 2: didn't have enough time with some of the documents that 366 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 2: were presented by the commission. Remember they were arguing earlier 367 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 2: that clip I played you around, Morgan Maumela. We're trying 368 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 2: to argue that you didn't really give us this information 369 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 2: about this man. And now he's going to be mentioned here. 370 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: It's a little too late. Now we know what's happened. 371 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: The Commission is even considering recommending that Morgan Maumela, together 372 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 2: with Suliman Karim and Kat Macalab be investigated for fraud 373 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 2: and corruption and money launder. Now listen, this is remember 374 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 2: I told you Elia five hundred thousand moved from Kat 375 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 2: through Salim Suliman Karim to Maumela and then there was 376 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 2: another two hundred and fifty thousand rands. So in total, 377 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty thousand rand moved from Kat to Maumela. 378 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 2: But that's not the only time that this Suliman Kareem 379 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 2: had business relationships with Morgan Maumela. There are other millions 380 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: that have exchanged hands. Listen to this. 381 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 13: Why did you pay? Why did ZIGGI pay Lutaga forty 382 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 13: two million, four hundred and twenty seven over the period 383 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 13: December twenty twenty three to November twenty twenty four. 384 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: Can I laborate on that conct? Can I laborate? Can 385 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 2: you elaborate? Can I please do like I said? 386 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 14: I met mister Mommela in twenty twenty two. We did 387 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 14: a lot of work on my house. Together we became friendly. 388 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 14: Mister Mammela was a gentleman. He was very helpful. Subsequently 389 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 14: that we became friends. In about twenty twenty three, I 390 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,239 Speaker 14: was discussing a business idea with him, going into a 391 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 14: mining project, into a wash plant and a crusher plant 392 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 14: with a mind. That was the idea that we had. 393 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 14: I had which I shared with him. Mister Moila was 394 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 14: quite keen on investing with me, and I said to him, Okay, 395 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 14: it's fine. If it makes sense and you feel it's 396 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 14: good for you, we can go ahead and do this transaction. 397 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 14: I then presented a business proposal to him. We then 398 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 14: agreed we'll call this vehicle Chrome Core. So the vehicle 399 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 14: was going to be called Chrome COO and one of 400 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 14: my entities would on fifty percent of it and one 401 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 14: of his entities on firsty percent of the vehicle. We 402 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 14: needed to raise money because obviously mining is quite cash 403 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 14: intensive and it needs a lot of cash to operate. 404 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 14: We then agreed with both each raised firsty million and 405 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 14: five million capital. We agree on that. Mister Marmela then 406 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 14: said to me. I said to him, look, I will 407 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 14: raise my part. You go and raise your part. I 408 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 14: then asked him, because he was taking a lot of time, 409 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 14: and I wanted to move for the project because this 410 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 14: was my idea. He then said to me, he's going 411 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 14: to sell an asset. Once he sells the asset, he'd 412 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 14: be able to fund the project. 413 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to split it up because he's 414 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: speaking so slow. There So, and then Mong and Mamela 415 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 2: sold these assets and then he sent him about forty 416 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 2: million rand or there about of fifty and then for 417 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 2: this business venture. And then Morgan came back to him. 418 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 2: So here's here's what's interesting. Karim Suliman. Karim then sends 419 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,479 Speaker 2: how much to Morgan. Karim then sends about forty million 420 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: or so or fifty six million, sends fifty six million 421 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 2: to Morgan Hanguani Maumel. Now the Commission wants to know 422 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 2: what was this money about? This? Now is his explanation 423 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 2: that no, no, no, no no. This man had sent 424 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 2: me some forty million or so for this business venture, 425 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: but now he was in trouble and he needed some 426 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: money and he came back to me and said, please 427 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 2: send me back that money. I yeah. So apparently that's 428 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: why Karim had now sent this fifty six million to Hanguani. 429 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 2: Because Angani said, oh, I'm so don't know, I'm broke 430 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: or there's something happening with my assets. I need some money. 431 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 2: I need cash. Now that's how the money then moved 432 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 2: from Karim to Hanguani Maumela. Now, who is Hanguani Mammela 433 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 2: associated with? Do you remember when we spoke to Cabonge 434 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 2: on the show he came here to talk to us 435 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 2: Sej Kabonge. If you don't know, he's a I suppose 436 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 2: a businessman. Do you want to call him that? Incentence? 437 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 2: He's mostly known in and around Houting. 438 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 4: He is. 439 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 2: Quite close to Shadrag Sabia. Stay with me, Sej and 440 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 2: Kabong said on the radio on this show that he 441 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 2: is close friends with Shadrag Sibia. Who is Shadrag Sibia. 442 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: He's the Deputy National Police Commissioner who is now suspended 443 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: and his appearing between ed Hock and the Majana Commission 444 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 2: for his alleged relationship with Kate Matlala. What did such 445 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: Boe tell us on the show about Morgan Maumela. This 446 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 2: is what he said when he was on the show. 447 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: Have you tried to speak to her because you said 448 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 2: you guys are close friends. 449 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 15: Look, I did not try to talk to her. She 450 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 15: tried to call me on July. I didn't want an 451 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 15: ansife call because I don't I don't want to socialize 452 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 15: myself around. 453 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 2: Table, especially at the time. She had not made the 454 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 2: claim that we were talking with Okay, so why didn't 455 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: do you? Did you avoid her? Cause no, I did 456 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 2: not avoid her. We were talking every day. 457 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 15: They that make me to stop talking to her because 458 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 15: she want to control me. 459 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm talking to What do you mean? 460 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 15: Yeah, she's telling me that I must not talk to Kate, 461 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 15: I must talk to Morgan, and then I must not. 462 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 2: Talk to a few people. I don't see her reason why. 463 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 15: And then I'm talking to them on the business direction, 464 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 15: so not talking to them to anything that is out 465 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 15: of business. 466 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 2: So he's talking to k He's talking to Morgan based 467 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 2: on business arrangements and nothing outside of business, which means 468 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 2: Sage Cabonge does business with Morgan Haguani Mommela and Kate Matlala. 469 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 2: Morgan and Kate do business together. Kat is linked to 470 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 2: Shadrag Sabia. Sage Kabonge, who is doing business with these 471 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 2: two guys, is close friends with Shadrag Sibia. Okay, that 472 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 2: sounds interesting. Sage Kabonge, who was the last person to 473 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 2: see the ex girlfriend of Kate Matlala. Remember Kate Matalay 474 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 2: is in jail now for the attempted murder of his 475 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 2: ex girlfriend Johnny, who was Johnny with on the night 476 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 2: there was an attempt on her in her life with 477 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 2: Sage Kabong. She believes this is not me. Tabohotebe Journey 478 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 2: believes that Sergi Kabonge, this businessman who's close to Morgan 479 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: and KD and Ked, is the one who told Ked 480 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 2: where she was, which then resulted in Ked then approving 481 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 2: that go take a hit on this woman. This is 482 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: the version of Tabohotaebe Johney so Segi Kabonga when she 483 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 2: he came here, he wanted to defend himself to say, no, 484 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 2: I'm not involved in the attempted medal of this woman. 485 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 2: But this woman also wanted me to stop talking to 486 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 2: Morgan and Kate and I couldn't because these are people 487 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 2: I do business with. Now, enter President Zero Rama Pasa, 488 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 2: what did he tell us about Morgan Hanguani Maummela. 489 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 16: I go on my walks now in twenty twenty four, 490 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 16: so it should be known because mister Maguenia only focused 491 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 16: on this photograph. In twenty twenty four, I am walking 492 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 16: on that same street and a person comes out of 493 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 16: this house and he greets me, and as I often 494 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 16: meet people, I ask them who are you? He says, 495 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 16: I am Hanguanimu Mare, and that's how he introduces himself 496 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 16: to me. And I say, you saw you are the 497 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 16: mammare who is putting my name into disrepute. And he 498 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 16: smiles away. And now I've encountered this person and I've 499 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 16: walk away and I walk to my home. And then 500 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 16: in twenty twenty four, on the twenty sixth of December, 501 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 16: I am walking with my daughter, who loves walking too, 502 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 16: on the same street. 503 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 13: And there this young man. 504 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 16: Comes out and he says, hello, Rama Pasta, my mother 505 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 16: is here. Can you say hello to her? And I 506 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 16: say who is she? He says, it's Monani Maumad. Now, 507 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 16: when I was at school in Papoli High School with 508 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 16: my then wife, Hope Modo, his brother was also her 509 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 16: brother was also there, and later I got to know 510 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 16: that this Monani and this my wife's brother, my former 511 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 16: wife's brother, they hooked up and as they hooked up, 512 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 16: they had a child. And this is now Hanguani Maumad, 513 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 16: whom I did not know, but I know his mother 514 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 16: because we were at school together. So so he says, 515 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 16: my mother is here, can you say hello to her? 516 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 16: And she's coming out of the yard towards the main gate, 517 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,800 Speaker 16: and she's wearing a gown, a morning gown, and I 518 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 16: immediately say, I can't allow her to come into the 519 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 16: street with the morning gown. And I go towards the 520 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 16: gate and I greet her and I say, how are you? 521 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 16: How have you been? That's the sun total of. 522 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 2: It all, okay, and that's the sum total of it all. 523 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 2: So if you have seen Morgan's house, did you see 524 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 2: how high those walls are, Like, it's really high walls. 525 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 2: You can't see what's happening inside, and you can't see 526 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 2: what's happening outside. In fact, people who live in neighborhoods 527 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 2: like that don't usually just open the gate to s 528 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 2: get what trying to get fresh aim into the yard. 529 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 2: People who live in areas like that don't just open 530 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 2: the gate to see, Oh who's passing there? I wonder, 531 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 2: so how did they see the president walk? And then 532 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 2: the guy comes out, Hey, I'm Morgan. Maumela introduces himself 533 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 2: like that and then the next time, somehow Morgan maybe 534 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 2: Morgan now had must at the times the present and 535 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 2: takes walks because the second time, Mom is ready in 536 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 2: a gown to meet the president. I am not suggesting 537 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 2: here that the president is related to this man. I 538 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 2: think it's very clear that it's the president's former wife, 539 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 2: whose brother had a child with this woman who and 540 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 2: then they gave birth to Morgan Maumela. The story just 541 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 2: doesn't make sense to me. And I'm bringing all of 542 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 2: these clips and stories because I'm trying to figure out 543 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 2: what could be going on here. Why is this man 544 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,840 Speaker 2: so powerful that he's still not arrested. Why is he 545 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 2: so powerful that we can't get confirmation that there's an 546 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 2: investigation that is advanced around him. Why is he so 547 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 2: powerful that even people who appear at the Commission are 548 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 2: so scared to want to get into details about him, 549 00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 2: and they try every single trick to try and postpone 550 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,800 Speaker 2: their hearings or to can do their testimonies in camera. 551 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 2: And I suspect that's because they were gonna have to 552 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 2: mention this man, because the Commission has evidence and what's 553 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 2: up messages that shows the conversation about Morgan and the 554 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 2: money that has flown from him to him from kat Magala. 555 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 2: This man has been accused of taking being part of 556 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 2: a syndicate that stole two billion ran from Timbisa Hospital. 557 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 2: And now we see that he may have received proceeds 558 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 2: of crime from Kat Maclala and he's still roaming the 559 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 2: streets free. Now you tell me how that makes sense. 560 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 2: After the break, I'm gonna go to your course and 561 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 2: your what'saps. It's eight minutes before ten. 562 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 7: Your voice, your station, your ultim line. I'm seven eighteen 563 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 7: minutes before. 564 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 8: Ten, money, money, my imager, and we enjoy work. Imagine 565 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 8: you know, on the issue of Morgan, I think you 566 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 8: are right. Morgan is being protected. 567 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 17: He is being protected, and we don't know who's protecting him. 568 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 17: And the person who's protecting him is very powerful. He 569 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 17: made sure that they can't touch at that Morgan guy. 570 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:23,359 Speaker 2: And you're right. 571 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 17: Probably maybe it skip the country is nowhere to be found. 572 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 12: M hm. 573 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 17: They should have arrested him a long time ago because 574 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:37,879 Speaker 17: they confistigated those super super powerful casts and then they leave. 575 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 17: In most those things are processed of crimes. He committed crime, 576 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 17: so it must be arrested. 577 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 7: Man. We can't go on like this as a country and. 578 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 17: The justice system like a I don't understand. So the 579 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 17: I s I U doesn't have power to arrest mhm, 580 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 17: the as I you, I don't know how to arrest 581 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 17: Mariamaila now and we can't go on like this ever. 582 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 2: A great one while we enjoying. 583 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 7: Good morning, Clement. 584 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 2: It sounds like you are really amazing and connecting the dogs. 585 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 7: Good work. Wow, thanks for a lovely show boy. 586 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 18: Money inclementous when come from spray View, you know, I 587 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 18: think we must not stop talking about Maulmeil until he 588 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,919 Speaker 18: comes out wherever he's hiding. I found Africa two weeks 589 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 18: ago on kept I mean seven o two morning breakfast, 590 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 18: so asking about Maulmeiler, he tried to see if maybe 591 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 18: to would find anything, and then he said he'll come 592 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 18: back later if he picks up where he is. He 593 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 18: hasn't come back obviously, like you said, he's hiding. Maybe 594 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 18: he's hiding, but we must talk about him on seven 595 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 18: or two every day until he comes out wherever he is. 596 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 18: We cannot it destroyed temisus, but there's nothing left chemists 597 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 18: and he's still. 598 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 2: Enjoying his life. I'm very very lived about this. What 599 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 2: also hurts me deeply is the fact that there is 600 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 2: a whistleblower. I hear that I was killed. Babita Diakaran 601 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:28,240 Speaker 2: was killed, murdered because she was exposing the rot of corruption, 602 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 2: the very same matter through which the SIU was able 603 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 2: to confiscate these assets of Hanjuani Maumela. Babita di Okaran 604 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 2: had already told us, had already flagged these transactions. Deboro Tobijani, 605 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 2: who is the ex girlfriend of kat Matala, seems to 606 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 2: believe that kat Matala was somehow involved in the murder 607 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 2: of Babeta Diacoran. I read that in was it in 608 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 2: the Sunday World though in the Sunday papers, So sometime 609 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 2: last year that's what she wanted to tell the police, 610 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 2: or she's already told the police in a statement. Could 611 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 2: it be that we are dealing here and I don't 612 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 2: know and maybe the police are still investigating. Could it 613 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 2: be that we're dealing with people that have also taken 614 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 2: out Babta de Oceran. In fact, I was having a 615 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:25,759 Speaker 2: conversation with someone yesterday about how how is it that 616 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 2: we don't even have documentaries like a short docky series, 617 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 2: an investigative series about this man. I mean, Eustroniphory has 618 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 2: done an incredible job at trying to connect those thoughts. 619 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 2: But I think the space an opportunity to still do 620 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,799 Speaker 2: a lot of work around this man. And maybe investigations 621 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 2: are still continuing. And this person said to me yesterday 622 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 2: that apparently the guy is quite dangerous, so some people 623 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 2: probably are scared to really report about him, to investigate him. 624 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,439 Speaker 2: But we can't live in a country like that where 625 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 2: we are held hostage. We're unable to ask these critical 626 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 2: questions because oh my god, I'm scared for our safety. 627 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 2: Something is up here, and I hope our law enforcement 628 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 2: officers can get to the bottom of it. Nah man. 629 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 19: Omera guy, I think it's the boss of all these guys. Yeah, 630 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 19: ourt Matlala and our sloman carrying just runners men. 631 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 2: No no, no no, and adn't portactly. 632 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 9: Good morning, Clement. When it comes to hang on my 633 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,840 Speaker 9: own mailer, all I can say is you need to 634 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 9: be very careful. He's one of the most powerful people 635 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 9: in this country. And trust me you there is a 636 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 9: reason why people are not arresting him or nothing's happening there. 637 00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 9: So yeah, there is a whole underworld that most of 638 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 9: society is not aware of. And I mean these guys, 639 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 9: they really really really control a lot of things in 640 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 9: the background. So yeah, I'm not surprised that nothing's happening. 641 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 9: Anonymous from century