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Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven

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Speaker 1: oh two.

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Speaker 2: Let's walk this all.

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Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you

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Speaker 3: by abscess cib Discover the latest trends shaping digital assets

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Speaker 3: across Africa. Download the ABS Africa Digital Assets Insights twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five eight minutes after six. Good evening, Welcome to

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Speaker 3: the Money Show. I'm Stephen Curtis. Of course, in a way,

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Speaker 3: lots of different corporate news coming out today, and some

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Speaker 3: of it just tells us certain things about our economy.

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Speaker 3: I was fascinated by what's happening with City Lodge. Their

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Speaker 3: occupancy rate up by four percent. Now that's quite a

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Speaker 3: big increase if you think about it year on year,

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Speaker 3: and I accept that last year in November we had

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Speaker 3: the in joe Berg in particular, you had sort of people,

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Speaker 3: you know, looking all over the place for accommodation for

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Speaker 3: the G twenty and the B twenty that came before it,

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Speaker 3: and that would have played a role, but I don't

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Speaker 3: think that would have been enough to push up their

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Speaker 3: occupancy rates for the whole year by such a big amount.

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Speaker 3: What I'm hoping is that something is moving in our

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Speaker 3: accommodation market, and I say this because of tourism figures

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Speaker 3: for the sort of middle part of last year. We're

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Speaker 3: very strong as well, and the number of people have

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Speaker 3: been coming to South Africa it seems, has been increasing.

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Speaker 3: So hopefully it does mean that something is moving and

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Speaker 3: we'll get more money coming in. I'm hoping that's what

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Speaker 3: is happening. Comba iron Ore announcing today quite a strong performance.

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Speaker 3: I thought very interested in how they get such a

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Speaker 3: high price for their iron ore at twelve percent above

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Speaker 3: the benchmark and pull music. Lala is the CEO. We'll

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Speaker 3: speak to her in a couple of moments. And the

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Speaker 3: Competition Commissioner. I know you've heard from them already this week,

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Speaker 3: but I did think this is very important and might

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Speaker 3: well be something that you've sort of suffered from. So

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Speaker 3: they have found that PG Glass and Glass Foot, they say,

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Speaker 3: have been running a price fixing cartel about the raw

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Speaker 3: price that you would pay for the glass that would

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Speaker 3: be put into your windscreen. I find that really quite something.

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Speaker 3: They had an agreement goes the arguments, it will go

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Speaker 3: to the competition tribunal. We did try and get in

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Speaker 3: touch with PG Glass and Glass but for the moment,

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Speaker 3: that no confirmation that they'll be on the radio, if

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Speaker 3: not today, maybe at some point in the near future,

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Speaker 3: and we'll wait for a finding from the Competition tribunal.

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Speaker 3: But have you ever come to a situation, maybe it

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Speaker 3: was with a windscreen, maybe it was something else, and

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Speaker 3: you've just thought to yourself, this price doesn't feel right. Sometimes,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you're bored at an airport and you've

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Speaker 3: got some time to wait, and you've been through security already,

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Speaker 3: go and look at the price of bottled water. There

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Speaker 3: was a time when I used to think, hmm, the

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Speaker 3: price of bottled water at an airport, it's quite iant,

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Speaker 3: quite expensive for some reason. I don't think it's quite

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Speaker 3: like that anymore, but often thought it'd be fun to

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Speaker 3: sort of lodge a complaint. I never got round it.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 3: During COVID, for example, people were just taking pictures of

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Speaker 3: prices in the store and sending it. Often that that

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Speaker 3: led to some successful prosecutions.

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Speaker 4: Was quite a.

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Speaker 3: Strange time for all sorts of reasons. Don't have you

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Speaker 3: ever lodged something of the competition commission and had a result.

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Speaker 3: We'd love to hear the story. Please. On seven two

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Speaker 3: seven oh two one seven oh two. Also the idea

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Speaker 3: of a fiscal anchor, it comes up, I mean before budget.

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Speaker 3: All sorts of things happen, Various interest groups say certain things.

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Speaker 3: But people talking about a fiscal anchor suggesting it would

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Speaker 3: stabilize our government finances. I think it probably would. But

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Speaker 3: I also can see an argument against it because government

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Speaker 3: would say, well, we lose a little bit of our freedom,

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Speaker 3: so it would be a brave finance minister to do it.

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Speaker 3: Kaya Sotola will explain it at around twenty to seven,

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Speaker 3: and then doctor Kamishni Naidu who's at Fitts University, she

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Speaker 3: has a very strong argument for the post office. I

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Speaker 3: think the problem with the post office actually is that

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Speaker 3: most people in urban areas don't ever use it. You

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Speaker 3: use something else. If you're in an urban area and

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Speaker 3: you have a little bit of money, you don't ever

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Speaker 3: go to the post office. And so making the argument

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Speaker 3: for the post office it's quite hard. It's a hard sell.

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Speaker 3: Good to hear from you tonight, as I say your

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Speaker 3: stories competition please oh seven two seven oh two one

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Speaker 3: seven o two, and then you can call on a

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Speaker 3: double one douaa three oh seven O two and two

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Speaker 3: one four for six five, six, seven twelve minutes now

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Speaker 3: after six o'clock The.

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Speaker 5: Lanny Show with Stephen Krudis lion on ninety two point

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Speaker 5: seven and one o six FM streaming on the Prime

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Speaker 5: Media Plus NAP.

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Speaker 2: And DStv channel eight five six.

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Speaker 3: Cumber iron Ore reporting today and your profits are by

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Speaker 3: eighteen percent, partly because trans NEETs improved its rail services

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Speaker 3: to the coaster. As we know, trans Nett seems to

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Speaker 3: be improving in every way. Cumber also able to increase

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Speaker 3: their sales by two percent to thirty seven million tons.

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Speaker 3: In Pumi Zikalala is the CEO at Cumba and for me,

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Speaker 3: good evening. Really do appreciate the time. Thank you. You've

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Speaker 3: been able to get quite high prices for your iron

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Speaker 3: ore and in fact, for quite a long period of time,

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Speaker 3: twelve percent above the average benchmark. What's so special about

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Speaker 3: the northern capes iron.

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Speaker 6: Thank you for having missed you.

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Speaker 7: Vin, I guess it's a fantastic question because as you know,

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Speaker 7: even you know, when back sets are depressed, we are

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Speaker 7: able to end a premium above the benchmark price. And

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Speaker 7: that's simply because of the quality of our ion o.

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Speaker 7: We've got different products, so we've got lamp which is

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Speaker 7: essentially lumpy or and it's naturally forming in the ground.

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Speaker 7: We just recover it from our minds, and we also

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Speaker 7: have the fines product. The fantastic thing around this is

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Speaker 7: that it sits with an average ion content that's certainly

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Speaker 7: higher than what other regions see such as Australia. And

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Speaker 7: then the second element for us is the production of

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Speaker 7: lamp and again it actually saved as well, and that's

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Speaker 7: why we saw that twelve percent increase from the average

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Speaker 7: benchmarkt Do you get.

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Speaker 3: More demand then? Is there more demand even in a

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Speaker 3: slightly depressed state for iron demand? Do you get a

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Speaker 3: lot more demand for the finer quality stuff?

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Speaker 7: So what you certainly see is that we are able

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Speaker 7: to conclude long term contracts with our customers and they

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Speaker 7: are in all the various regions. And is that the

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Speaker 7: relationships that we have extend beyond just the normal trading.

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Speaker 7: Our customers sometimes visit our minds to get an understanding

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Speaker 7: of what it is that we can actually do to

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Speaker 7: give them or supply them with tailor made solutions, so

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Speaker 7: specific size classes, et cetera. And that is what ends

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Speaker 7: us the premium that we see certainly when markets becomes softer.

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Speaker 7: Clearly we do see that as well, but the long

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Speaker 7: term relationships with our customers still allow us to continue

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Speaker 7: driving for further value and building alongside with them.

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Speaker 3: What's your outlook for iron ore demand? I think China

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Speaker 3: last year imported more iron than it's ever imported before.

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Speaker 3: Makes sense if you consider how much they're exporting in

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Speaker 3: terms of finished goods at the moment. How do you

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Speaker 3: see demand?

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Speaker 7: So maybe a little bit about last year. First, you've

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Speaker 7: been when we came into last year, people expected depressed

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Speaker 7: market and the markets actually you know, performed the liquid

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Speaker 7: better than expected. They were still down from twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 7: but it was certainly better. And then coming into this year,

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Speaker 7: we expect the prayersure to continue. However, when we look

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Speaker 7: at the long term, our long term view for global

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Speaker 7: still demand remains very positive and this is driven by

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Speaker 7: structural forces including economic development, population growth, as well as

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Speaker 7: the global shift to keener technologies. And as you think

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Speaker 7: about this, all of these will require still. The wonderful

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Speaker 7: thing is that when you then look at our iron ore,

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Speaker 7: it certainly gives our customers and edd simply because of

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Speaker 7: the qualities of that are and what they are able

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Speaker 7: to essentially utilize that for so when we look at

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Speaker 7: how they blend what goes into blasphensis they typically prefer

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Speaker 7: what we bring. While we expect Chinese demand to moderate

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Speaker 7: rising demand from India and other development regions, I expected

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Speaker 7: to actually upset this.

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Speaker 3: You've been able to save You've been able to save

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Speaker 3: quite a lot of money over the last few years. I

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Speaker 3: mean I had to read it twice. At five billion

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Speaker 3: rand over the last three years or so in operations

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Speaker 3: you've made. I mean you must have made quite substantial

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Speaker 3: changes to do that.

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Speaker 6: Yes, we did. Seven.

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Speaker 7: The first one was when we looked at our business.

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Speaker 7: We realized that we were running our business as if

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Speaker 7: we were going to sell over forty million times per

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Speaker 7: annum until we've seen the pressures coming through from the

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Speaker 7: logistics performance from Transnet. And we then had to make

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Speaker 7: a heart decision at the beginning of twenty twenty four

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Speaker 7: to reconfigure our business for a slightly lower base and

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Speaker 7: that allowed us to strip costs, but we did it

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Speaker 7: in a manner where we also conceive that the flexibility

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Speaker 7: that we needed to leave in to be able to

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Speaker 7: ramp up production as and when the Transnet performance essentially increases.

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Speaker 7: So that was the one lever, and then the second

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Speaker 7: lever was just purely around the drive for operational efficiencies.

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Speaker 7: And this work will continue because in the world that

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Speaker 7: we leave in, we fundamentally believe that there's a lot

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Speaker 7: of uncertainty, but we need to continue focusing on the

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Speaker 7: areas that we do control.

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Speaker 3: Translate. I mean, as you say, it's been a big

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Speaker 3: issue for you, it's improving. Obviously, you and other companies

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Speaker 3: are sort of part of the rail users forum. You

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Speaker 3: sort of you know, try and help where you can.

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Speaker 3: Is there any obvious sort of next fix? I mean,

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Speaker 3: things are improving. Is there any obvious thing that you

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Speaker 3: think needs to happen next with transmit?

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Speaker 7: Definitely? So what's pleasing is that the performance is stabilizing.

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Speaker 7: You know, people keep saying for me, it's improving, and

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Speaker 7: I keep saying not stabilizing, because what we were seeing

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Speaker 7: before was the free for all in performance. But we

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Speaker 7: do celebrate the stability that we are seeing. But I

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Speaker 7: also then bring it closer to home and look at

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Speaker 7: the fact that that performance is still at only eighty

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Speaker 7: four percent of our contracted volumes. And the goal and

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Speaker 7: this is a shed goal amongst all the users and

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Speaker 7: also TRANSMIT and as you know, I've got immense respect

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Speaker 7: for their leadership because of the collaboration that we drive,

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Speaker 7: so we do know what it is that needs to

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Speaker 7: be done. And Transnett does have the awkward door restoration

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Speaker 7: program that will be executed over the next couple of

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Speaker 7: years to fundamentally retend their entire system to its historical

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Speaker 7: levels of performance which are above sixty million times.

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Speaker 3: To annam in Pumisicalala, I really appreciate the time. Thank

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Speaker 3: you the CEO at cumber Iron Ore eighteen minutes now

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Speaker 3: after six o'clock.

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Speaker 2: Is on the money shows six to eight pm.

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Speaker 3: Well, a finding now by the Competition Commission that PG

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Speaker 3: Glass and Glass But have been operating as a cartel

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Speaker 3: essentially setting prices together. You know, the next phase of

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Speaker 3: this it goes to the Competition Tribunal. The two have

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Speaker 3: been referred there. Makala Mochlala is the head of Cartels

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Speaker 3: of the Competition Commission and Makarala. Good evening. I must

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Speaker 3: say you've been very generous with your time this week,

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Speaker 3: so thank you. What are these two firms PG Glass

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Speaker 3: and Glassfit actually doing?

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Speaker 4: Good?

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Speaker 8: Good evening, given in to the listeners. So these two

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Speaker 8: automotive class companies have a long spending agreement to increase

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Speaker 8: the prices of automotive classes they supply to ordinary customers

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Speaker 8: and to the insurance customers with the same percentage point

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Speaker 8: or amount. So they would agree that they're doing this annually.

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Speaker 8: They would agree that this year an increase will be

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Speaker 8: fifteen percent. They will both apply a fifteen percent increase.

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Speaker 8: So basically they are not competing, they are colluding. Yet

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Speaker 8: they are the biggest suppliers of this automotive class in

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Speaker 8: South Africa.

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Speaker 3: Was there a written agreement or something? How are you

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Speaker 3: able to prove it?

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Speaker 8: Well, we proved it through an investigation. We obtain evidence

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Speaker 8: that correspond with what we are saying, evidence indicating that

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Speaker 8: each and every year they are communicating a price increase

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Speaker 8: which is the same, and they are applying a price

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Speaker 8: increase which is the same. But also they are communicating

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Speaker 8: among themselves. It's a pitgy and the classics.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm no expert on competition law, Marclai you are,

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Speaker 3: but even I know that for two competitors to be

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Speaker 3: communicating about price increases is a big known.

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Speaker 8: It is prohibited. It constitutes a price price fixing in

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Speaker 8: terms of the Competition Act, and we have done our

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Speaker 8: investigation is the authority responsible for that, and we've made

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Speaker 8: the finding that they have concluded in contravention of the law,

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Speaker 8: and we refer the matter to the competent Sabrenal for prosecution.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned the insurance companies, and I just sort of

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Speaker 3: thinking imagine being being someone who works at the insurance

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Speaker 3: company listening to this and thinking this has been going

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Speaker 3: on for a long time. Fixing windscreens or paying for

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Speaker 3: it would have been a big cost to insurance companies

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Speaker 3: for quite a long time. Some of them could be furious.

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Speaker 3: They might find that actually it's been quite a substantial

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Speaker 3: sum of money because it's been going on for a while.

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Speaker 3: Is there any mechanism for them to clow it back

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Speaker 3: if there's a ruling by the Competition Tribunal that indeed

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Speaker 3: it is price fixing?

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Speaker 8: Yes, yes, I mean the law makes provisions for those

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Speaker 8: who have been victimized by the cattel to claim damages,

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Speaker 8: and you're quite correct that process kicks in after the

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Speaker 8: Combat Tribunal as they made the ruling that the indeed

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Speaker 8: should the prize in contravention.

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Speaker 4: Of the law.

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Speaker 8: The victims that will then be played in a position

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Speaker 8: where they can request the certificates from the tribunal and

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Speaker 8: initiate damaged claims in the in the High Court.

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Speaker 3: I can just imagine the court case is going on forever.

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Speaker 3: Is it possible, I know you do. You do quite

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Speaker 3: a lot of calculations. Your economists would have looked at MacHale.

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Speaker 3: Is it possible to know what impact it actually had

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Speaker 3: on the price of wind screens? Because I mean, in

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Speaker 3: terms of the actual installation and all the rest of

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Speaker 3: a new wind screen, the price of the glasses is

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Speaker 3: a massive ingredient.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, look, I mean not at this stage from where

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Speaker 8: I'm sitting as an investigator. We we'll investigate, we found

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Speaker 8: the evidence of collusion. The the overcharges are usually you know,

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Speaker 8: become apparent during the persecution process where we will all

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Speaker 8: have to, you know, put all the evidence we have

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Speaker 8: against each other on the table and the issue of

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Speaker 8: over charges will kick in in that in that process.

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Speaker 8: But what it should be clear to everybody is that

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Speaker 8: the cattails in their very nature are designed to inflate prices,

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Speaker 8: and usually it's between fifteen to deliverse present over charges.

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Speaker 8: So the reason why we keep on finding this catel

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Speaker 8: is because they're very profitable. The companies are able to

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Speaker 8: make more profit when they collude than when they compete,

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Speaker 8: so there is incentive for them to continue doing this

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Speaker 8: even if we keep on caging them and penalizing them.

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Speaker 8: So it's the profit.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the issue in this market was that they

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Speaker 3: were big enough to do it. The other competitors just

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Speaker 3: weren't big enough. I mean, is there a sort of

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Speaker 3: failure of competition in a way. We need more, we

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Speaker 3: need more on screen companies.

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Speaker 8: Yeah. Part of the problem which might have actually facilitated

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Speaker 8: this cattle is that, as you may may know, a

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Speaker 8: PG class is part of shutter Proof, So shutter Proof

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Speaker 8: is the supplier of these classes supply both PG and

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Speaker 8: class fit. So any player that wants to enter the

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Speaker 8: market and be a supply in competition of classed and

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Speaker 8: PG will have to source from a shutter Proof if

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Speaker 8: they're not important in South Africa. So there is incentive

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Speaker 8: for these guys to keep the suppliers, and then the

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Speaker 8: is the suppliers number low so that they can continue

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Speaker 8: with their skins. Because the more you have players entering

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Speaker 8: the market competing with PG and classic. The likelihood is

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Speaker 8: that then they'll disrupt the cattail. So there has been

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Speaker 8: that the upstream player playing some role in ensuring that

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Speaker 8: the downstream that wants to enter the market, it's frustrated

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Speaker 8: and that's the reason why we end up getting the complaint.

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Speaker 8: The complaint comes from a company that wanted to enter

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Speaker 8: the market and compete with the CLASSID and PG and

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Speaker 8: they were frustrated by the supply. And then it turns

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Speaker 8: out that there is in is that the supply actually

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Speaker 8: benefits from the cattel downstream.

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Speaker 3: M that's quite something, thanks very much. Indeed, the head

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Speaker 3: of Cartels at the Competition Commission, the Money Show, the

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Speaker 3: Governor's portfolio manager at rand Swiss. Good evening. Let's start

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Speaker 3: with Cumba. We just heard from the CEO. Quite a

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Speaker 3: nice update from them, quite good, quite strong results.

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Speaker 4: I thought, oh yes.

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Speaker 9: I mean, look, we have seen, you know a bit

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Speaker 9: of turbulence happening in the you know, commodity stecture. Obviously,

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Speaker 9: you know, we've had the winners around to the you know,

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Speaker 9: the h the plattom and the goal price and so on.

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Speaker 9: But you know, we mustn't to get some of the

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Speaker 9: other guys out there as well. Cumber has obviously had

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Speaker 9: a bit of a turbulance the last few years, but

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Speaker 9: we have some nice recovery in about here. Some of

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Speaker 9: the ship actually done almost such extent over the last

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Speaker 9: five years, but for the last they six months or so,

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Speaker 9: we've seen, you know, quite nice recovery coming through. I

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Speaker 9: do think that, you know, looking at some of the uh,

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Speaker 9: you know, the issues happening globally, you know, the focus

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Speaker 9: turning to things more focused on AI, things more focused

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Speaker 9: on like the aage generation and so on, I think unfortunately,

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Speaker 9: I know, has taken a bit of a back seats

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Speaker 9: or something like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very interesting to look at it like that. Actually,

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Speaker 3: the packaging producer Mandy, I mean, talking a lot about

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Speaker 3: the headwinds that they've been facing, and that's obviously true.

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Speaker 3: Interesting to see that they said their earnings would be

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Speaker 3: lower and still their share prices are quite strongly at

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Speaker 3: the end.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, well, of course, it's all about you know, expectations

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Speaker 9: and you know, look at the Mondys, the you knowcause

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Speaker 9: the share valuation over the last little while, it has

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Speaker 9: obviously been a number a bit of pressure on. I

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Speaker 9: do think that we have to look at for instance,

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Speaker 9: what's been happening with regards to uh, you know, sort

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Speaker 9: of the general you know, packaging companies out there to

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Speaker 9: something extent, they are obviously, you know, starting dependent on

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Speaker 9: the consumer. Uh and we are obviously, you know, in

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Speaker 9: a situation in which we have seen uh know, all

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Speaker 9: of a kind of weak consumer at the moment. You know,

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Speaker 9: you this is something that kind of benefit from you know,

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Speaker 9: stronger you know, to tools, GB girls and so on.

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Speaker 9: It's it's one of the things that does you know,

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Speaker 9: kind of you know help would you know, excess demand,

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Speaker 9: extra school of the you know, to market the product

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Speaker 9: and so on. But yeah, I do think that, you know,

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Speaker 9: we are in a lot of recovery coming through here,

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Speaker 9: and the market of course is rewarding that. But like

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Speaker 9: I said, you know, with a bout of spectations, beach

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Speaker 9: results are good. If you esparted the Beam and weaker.

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Speaker 3: Setty large, their their profit was up. But I was

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Speaker 3: very interested in the occupancy rate up by four point

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Speaker 3: two percent to sixty one and sixty one point seven

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Speaker 3: or so it was. I mean, it does I mean,

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Speaker 3: maybe I'm just too much of an optimist, but it

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Speaker 3: would seem that something's moving in the hotel sector.

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Speaker 9: Yeah. Look, I mean they did mention a couple of

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Speaker 9: one of events, you know, some of the stuff like

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Speaker 9: the G twenty stuff and so on, helping them out,

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Speaker 9: which you know you would it would think makes sense.

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Speaker 9: You know. I do think the future does hold you know,

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Speaker 9: good possibilities around you know, the tourism sector as well

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Speaker 9: as the business travel sector. But I do think that

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Speaker 9: a little bit some of these results coming out here,

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Speaker 9: you know, it is a bit of a mixed bag.

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Speaker 10: You know.

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Speaker 9: We mentioned, like I said, like the G twenty and

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Speaker 9: other things has been like the once off events that

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Speaker 9: does helpful bit. The half your profit was down tride

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Speaker 9: the sense, you know, I think it's so flat. But

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Speaker 9: like you said, you know, we saw some signs of

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Speaker 9: things like occupancy rising a little bit, so that is

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Speaker 9: a bit of a positive.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you kind of hope that that momentum keeps going.

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Speaker 3: Tourism is one thing we could do very very well.

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Speaker 3: I've quite a few things aligned in the right way.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, look, I mean tourism is I've never been one

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Speaker 9: of the people who believe tourism can be from the

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Speaker 9: foundation of the economy. I think it's one of those

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Speaker 9: nice to have some addition to things, but I think tourism

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Speaker 9: has all it doesn't really have the same kind of

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Speaker 9: multiplier effect throughout the economy where it's manufacturing. You the

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Speaker 9: progress from basically making machticks to making cars and airplanes

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Speaker 9: on theline. You know, tourism is not quite the same

398
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Speaker 9: kind of you know, firstly labor's options, you know, step ups.

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Speaker 9: But it's a nice thing to have in addition to

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Speaker 9: the other sectors of there.

401
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Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Indeed, Viv Governor's portfolio manager at

402
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Speaker 3: rand Swiss. In a moment, we'll talk about the fiscal anchor.

403
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Speaker 3: So many people coming up with budget requests at the moment.

404
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Speaker 3: I don't know if you've noticed, but that I think

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Speaker 3: is a little bit of a part of it. We'll

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Speaker 3: also speak to doctor Commissione and I do from Vits

407
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Speaker 3: University making the case for the post office. I mean,

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Speaker 3: the last time I went into the post office sort

409
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Speaker 3: of rarely was for a licensed SISK a few years ago.

410
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Speaker 3: Couldn't get it. Gave up after the fourth post office.

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Speaker 3: I should say I gave up. But the point I'm

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Speaker 3: making really is, I think it's a very hard argument

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Speaker 3: to make that we need a post office because so

414
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Speaker 3: many people don't ever go into one. Yet for the

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Speaker 3: people who use it, it does seem to still be vital.

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Speaker 3: What up Stephen on seven two seven two one, twenty

417
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Speaker 3: two minutes to seven. You heard the conversation with the

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Speaker 3: Competition commission about windscreens and PG glass and glass, but

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Speaker 3: some responses to that this.

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Speaker 11: Evening, I'd just like to comment on what the Competition

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Speaker 11: commissioners done in finding the pgitlers or the cattail. Unfortunately,

422
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Speaker 11: in this country it's happening in a lot. I mean

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Speaker 11: the textile industry. And what we find these manufacturers to

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Speaker 11: do is that they will deny me entry as a

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Speaker 11: distributor that buys from them directly. Instead, they will then

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Speaker 11: redirect me to another distributor, refusing me to buy from

427
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Speaker 11: them directly. When I go to that distributor, they price

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Speaker 11: me higher than what I would get when we go

429
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Speaker 11: to the manufacturer.

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Speaker 4: And it's happening a lot. It's not just one.

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Speaker 11: I could give you an example of companies that are

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Speaker 11: in the same board as mine in terms of profile,

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Speaker 11: in terms of access the distributors, but they will refuse me.

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Speaker 4: But except another.

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Speaker 11: Company, I don't want to put even skin color to

436
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Speaker 11: that company.

437
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Speaker 4: But that's what we find it. Sure, and I'll tell

438
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Speaker 4: you something with the cost the price of windscreen.

439
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 12: I've been in a motor industry for seventeen years and

440
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 12: I've only left moretnd'st about over just over a year ago.

441
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 12: And usually if i need anything that is related to

442
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 12: a car, I'll phone my friends who are still in

443
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 12: a modern duster fest and you know the price difference

444
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 12: from a quotation I requested them in the motor industry

445
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 12: with using a dealership's name which was one thousand and

446
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 12: seven and eighty for a winskreen of Azuki Shift and

447
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 12: to me calling myself the winds cry being two nine

448
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 12: hundred and eighty both with PG glass and last fit.

449
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 4: Imagine.

450
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, no, you can just imagine. I mean that's

451
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 3: quite quite something. Other voice notes on this. Other notes

452
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 3: on this, Sarah nor So saying my one competition commission

453
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 3: concern would be the fiber network operators. What is there

454
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 3: only one company can lay cables and certain areas Boom

455
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,239
Speaker 3: has a fair share of infrastructure. Why haven't others been

456
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 3: laying cable and competing on price? Five would be so

457
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 3: much cheaper. I'll think maybe there's an agreement you don't

458
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 3: dig where I dig. That would be one to look at.

459
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 3: That's a very interesting idea. I have a sneaking suspicion

460
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 3: that and it can get messy and complicated. But there

461
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 3: is competition along boomer lines for the what do you

462
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 3: call it, not the network operator, but the equivalent. There's

463
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 3: a service provider, the one that you buy it from,

464
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,719
Speaker 3: so that might be where the competition comes in. I

465
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 3: also suspect that if you've got someone who gets their

466
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 3: first gets into one market, it's just going to be

467
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 3: so expensive for someone else to dig their own salad.

468
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 3: They just don't do it. I don't know, let me

469
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 3: know if you know more on O seven two seven

470
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 3: two one seven two.

471
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 5: The Lanely Show with Stephen Krudis Lion on ninety two

472
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 5: point seven and one O six f M streaming on

473
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 5: the Prime Media Plus.

474
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 2: NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

475
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 3: I call it is seven the time. Well. The International

476
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 3: Monetary Fund saying this week that are government should consider

477
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 3: adopting what's called a fiscal anchor, adopting a policy that

478
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: would prevent death rising above a certain level. And obviously

479
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: they're talking ahead of next week's budget. Kais Atole is

480
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 3: an independent analyst. Ky good evening. I mean, I keep

481
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 3: hearing this phrase, and actually we've started to hear it

482
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 3: before each budget. But what is a fiscal anchor?

483
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 13: And go into the listeners. So essentially, what a fiscal

484
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 13: anchor is literally a statement of intent on how public

485
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 13: finances or public resources are going to be managed. So

486
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 13: what it simply means is that the state can come

487
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 13: up with a statement that says that we have taken

488
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 13: a position that we're not going to borrow beyond a

489
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 13: particular limit, or we're not going to do particular things

490
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 13: that have any impact on our standing as a country.

491
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 13: So once that is communicated and once that is committed to,

492
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 13: then it becomes the guideline under which every decision ought

493
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 13: to be taken. So if you take a position that

494
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 13: you're going to anchor your debt GDP levels at a

495
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 13: particular number, it then gives the Finance minute that the

496
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 13: latitude to be able to go back to every department

497
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 13: to say, wait, hold on, I see that you're asking

498
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 13: for this in the next packet cycle, but if I

499
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 13: do give it to you, it will mean that we're

500
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 13: breaking our own commitment so therefore, because I'm bound by

501
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 13: that commitment or that income, I cannot give you everything

502
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,719
Speaker 13: that you're asking for. So it does then sort of

503
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 13: create a some sens of legitimacy in you know, the

504
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 13: trait off process that the ministry would have to engage

505
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 13: in where they can simply cite that anchor as a

506
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 13: reason why they cannot say yes to particular demands from

507
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 13: particular departments.

508
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: I presume the argument against it would be, we don't

509
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: know what will happen. Maybe there's another pandemic and the

510
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 3: health department needs a lot more money, And to adopt

511
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 3: a fiscal ancor to say explicitly we will never borrow

512
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 3: beyond this point and then to basically cut the chain

513
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 3: of your anchor is a much worse outcome.

514
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 13: Well, the thing about an anchor is that at no

515
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 13: point in time does anyone come out and say that

516
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 13: the anchor is absolutely non negotiable. So the income is

517
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 13: appropriate under these particular circumstances. So there'd be a spectrum

518
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 13: of for as long as everything is business as usual,

519
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 13: that anchor is in place. If there are exogenous shocks,

520
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 13: whether it's the war in the Ukraine that we saw

521
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 13: a couple of years ago, whether it is the COVID

522
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 13: nineteen crisis, or even an event like the financial crisis,

523
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 13: then absolutely no one in the right mans would say, well,

524
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 13: we've written on a piece of paper that there is

525
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 13: our anchor, so therefore we are stuck. So I think

526
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 13: it is simply to say that in relation to all

527
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 13: business as usual scenarios, this is an NCAM that must

528
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 13: guide our decision making. But naturally, if there are exoting

529
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 13: us extraordinary and you know, black Swan events, absolutely no

530
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 13: one in their right minds would simply say, then say

531
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 13: a piece of paper says that we cannot react to

532
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 13: the reality of where we are. That would simply be foolish.

533
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 13: And of course voters would be able to read through

534
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 13: that and make their own decisions, which are a bit

535
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 13: more problematic for.

536
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,479
Speaker 3: Politicians indeed of managing government money. And to an extent,

537
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 3: the situation we find ourselves in is actually about communication.

538
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 3: What would the consequences be, and I presume some of

539
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 3: them would be very positive. If the financement is a

540
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 3: word to formally adopt a very explicit fiscal anchor next week,

541
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 3: I'm presuming that that would strengthen all sorts of things.

542
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 13: Well, we assume that if there were to be a

543
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 13: friscal anchor, one of the easiest matrices to measure is

544
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 13: the simple one of det to GDP. There may be

545
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 13: other ways in which one says this our friscal anchor.

546
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 13: So they could say that, for example, want to ensure

547
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 13: that you know how much we spend on particular on

548
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 13: the social wage in relation to how much raise could

549
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 13: be the income. So there are many particular dimensions, but

550
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 13: perhaps the one that tends to cater to most of

551
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 13: the issues is a dat to GDP ratio, because quite simple,

552
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 13: if you borrow more and you owe more, it means

553
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 13: that you have to prioritize repaying those debts first before

554
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 13: you pay anyone else. So it essentially displaces other spending

555
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 13: commitments because the problem with borrowing money is that those

556
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 13: that you borrow from will demand their money. They are

557
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 13: not particularly bothered about what your other social, political, or

558
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 13: socio economic objectives armed. So that anchor is the one

559
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 13: that's most likely to prewailm. But what that means is

560
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 13: that it simply says that whoever then has particular expectations,

561
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 13: who has particular demands, has to then have that anchor

562
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 13: in mind. So that they can temper their expectations. And

563
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 13: also it's quite important to remember that a finance minister's

564
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 13: job is to be an equal opportunity of vender. So

565
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 13: nobody ever gets absolutely everything that they asked for because

566
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 13: the answer is that we wish we could give it

567
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 13: to you. However, we've got these particular limitations. But when

568
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 13: there's a fiscal anchor in place, it gives the finance

569
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 13: minister much greater latitude to simply say, well, we sat

570
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 13: down as cabinet members, we all decided that that was

571
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 13: the absolute, non negotiable ceiling. So at no point in

572
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 13: time can anyone legitimately approach me with anything that threatens

573
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 13: that particular ceiling. So it does give that finance minister

574
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 13: or the Finance ministry much greater negotiation power because absolutely

575
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 13: everybody will be bound by that upper seeding that is

576
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 13: set through an anchor.

577
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 3: Do quite a few countries do adopt a fiscal anchor?

578
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: Is it something that people do quite often?

579
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 13: Well, I think most countries probably don't end up with

580
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 13: the type of problem that South Africa tends to end

581
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 13: up with. And South Africa's problems are unique in the

582
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 13: sense that whenever difficult decisions that had to be made.

583
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 13: We've simply borrowed our way through that instead of making

584
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 13: the critical trade offs and making the difficult decisions. So

585
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 13: if you look at the trajectory of how much South

586
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 13: Africa has borrowed in relation to how much it generates

587
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,719
Speaker 13: as an economy, it's only been going in the wrong direction.

588
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 13: In other words, our detgy deperation has been escalating over

589
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 13: many years. And again, what that simply means is that

590
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 13: even when you then say that we are borrowing to

591
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 13: fund the social wage, ultimately you'll get to a point

592
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 13: in time where the interest costs and the debt servicing

593
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 13: costs are so extraordinary, are so high they take to

594
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 13: displace much of your stated objectives. So we then end

595
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 13: up with a wish list that says we wish we

596
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 13: could spend that much, but unfortunately, because you owe so much,

597
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 13: even us we end up spending that So I think

598
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 13: other countries have probably had much narrower horizons to say, look,

599
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 13: if we find ourselves in this particular problem, statement, we

600
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 13: are going to implement an anchor for a particular period

601
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 13: until we reach some level of stability, and then we

602
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 13: can do things differently. In the South African case, we've

603
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 13: spoken about anchors beformed and there's always been a political

604
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 13: decision to say, yeah, never mind that, we think that

605
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 13: it is now our interest as political role players to

606
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 13: break that particular anchor. So therefore we do not lose,

607
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 13: you know, electoral power. So in the Soufian context, even

608
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 13: when it gets announced, that doesn't necessarily mean it will

609
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 13: be honored, particularly when need to do it during an

610
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 13: election year.

611
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, your old sonic youth Kistolet, thanks very much. Indeed,

612
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: in the Independent Analyst eight minutes now to seven.

613
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 14: Money Show Stephen Crotes is brought to you by abscess

614
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,360
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615
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,600
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616
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: They've been several reports over the last few days ahead

617
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 3: of the budget that the business rescue practitioners at the

618
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: Essay Post Office are sort of sounding a warning they

619
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 3: sounded last year that if they don't get the money

620
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: they need, they'll have to take the post office into

621
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: liquidation or provisional liquidation. It's been in business rescue for

622
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 3: several years now. There is I think a legitimate conversation

623
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 3: on whether we need a post office at door someone

624
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 3: with the strong views doctor Kamieschni, and I do visiting

625
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 3: a junct professor at the Southern Center at fits University, Commashally,

626
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 3: good evening and thanks for your time. I think you'll

627
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: find most people who live in urban areas in South

628
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: Africa probably couldn't tell you the last time they went

629
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: to a post office. You believe we absolutely need one.

630
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 15: Why good evening than Stephen, and thank you for the conversation.

631
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 15: I have worked around the world, having spent a number

632
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 15: of years of the United Nations, looked at communities on

633
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 15: the ground, communities and outlying areas, and the thing that

634
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 15: I kept coming up with around inclusive growth, around the

635
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 15: things that people need is a common social infrastructure, a

636
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 15: place to meet, a place to do their business, a

637
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 15: place where local economic activity can thrive. And those things

638
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 15: happen in urban areas. In Johannesburg. I don't have a

639
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 15: problem to find a place to do my business, to

640
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 15: get internet access, connectivity. Those realities don't exist for the

641
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 15: large majority of South Africans living in outlying areas. And

642
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 15: the post office with its branch network, with its access

643
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 15: to digital infrastructure and its network provides an easy on

644
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 15: ramp for South Africans to enter the new era.

645
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'm not convinced that the majority of

646
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: South African still live in rural areas. I think it's

647
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 3: about two thirds one third, But rural urban identities are

648
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 3: very complex issue, sir, and don't want to get bogged

649
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 3: down and argument about it. That's what would the people

650
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 3: be doing at the post office that they can't do

651
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 3: without one, I suppose is the fundamental question.

652
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 15: Good question, good question and one that I've talked about

653
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 15: and thought about for a long time. For me, I

654
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 15: think that it provides a space and I'm thinking about

655
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 15: a post office in a different guys. I think the

656
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 15: post offices of yesteryear was about letters and sending letters,

657
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 15: whether personal or business. The new evolved digital economy. Were

658
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 15: we talking about ECONMOCE, We're talking about logistics. We're talking

659
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 15: around the new envisaged infrastructure and the kinds of things

660
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 15: that you can do when you have a branch network,

661
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 15: so access to government services. This is happening at the

662
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 15: moment anyway. Medicines that are moving through the post office

663
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 15: into communities. Kids are going into post office branches to

664
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 15: get their cvs printed to get sent faxes for jobs.

665
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 15: It's already happening. It's just a matter of it's not

666
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 15: being captured because a lot of this is informal activity

667
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 15: and it's not within the current ambit of what we

668
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 15: envisage a post office to do.

669
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 3: So there is obviously a very strong argument that government

670
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 3: should provide the service and should strongly and should heavily

671
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 3: subsidize it, and I wouldn't have an argument with that.

672
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 3: I do think though, that one argument might be, well,

673
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 3: they don't needed or areas don't need so much a

674
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 3: post office as an internet cafe with some kind of connectivity,

675
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: very cheap access, the ability to spend time there to

676
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 3: you know, meet your meet your business partner there and

677
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 3: sort of send an email or something. I mean, would

678
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 3: that not be more productive? I mean sure, accept the

679
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 3: argument around around medicines. I mean I can't argue with

680
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 3: that either. But the idea that you're you're talking about

681
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 3: post office, maybe it needs a rebrand commission, you know,

682
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,320
Speaker 3: a different name for what you're actually describing.

683
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 15: You put an interesting question, and one I spent a

684
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 15: long time looking at and thinking about. So if I

685
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 15: look at China at the moment. So China has even

686
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 15: the process of re envisaging their post offices. They are

687
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 15: looking at their rural post offices. There's an entire rebrand

688
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 15: that's been done on the Shanghai Post office. Most of

689
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 15: the post offices across the world and in South Africa

690
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 15: are heritage buildings, buildings that have been around and fairly

691
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 15: valuable infrastructure. So China brought in some of the best

692
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 15: architects to rethink it. It's become a space of play

693
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 15: for young kids. I think they provide some sort of

694
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 15: library services, art to services. In India, it has been

695
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 15: quite critical in their transition into the digital economy. It's

696
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 15: played a key role in financial inclusion. And I know

697
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 15: I'm speaking of the two largest Asian economies that we

698
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 15: don't have. We don't match their growth, but what we

699
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 15: do match is their levels of inequality, their levels of

700
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 15: the demographics around urban rural and these are countries that

701
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 15: have put a lot of steak behind the post offices

702
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 15: serving as centers that are going to include rural people

703
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 15: that are going to be noomically linking urban rural areas.

704
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 15: And one of the things that China did, which I

705
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 15: think we're not thinking about Enough is thinking about getting

706
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 15: e commerce functioning outside of urban areas, and its village

707
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 15: mail reach program is largely about making e commerce profitable

708
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 15: and affordable to people outside the urban areas. So you're right,

709
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 15: a very different idea of what a post office would

710
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 15: look like. I think definitely a rebrand, but I think

711
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 15: also a conversation of what we would like our social

712
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 15: infrastructure to look like. Where do we come together and

713
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 15: what are the spaces we come together.

714
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: In Doctor Commission and Idi thank you to fascinating conversation

715
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: visiting visiting a junk professor at the Southern Center at

716
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 3: Its University at seven o'clock.

717
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: And now The Money Show with Even on seven o two,

718
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: let's walk at all.

719
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 3: The Money Show with Stephen Curtis has brought to you

720
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: by abscess cib Discover the latest trends shaping digital assets

721
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 3: across Africa. Download the Absent Africa Digital Assets Insights twenty

722
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 3: twenty five. Eight minutes after seven, I'm Stephen Curtis. Plenty

723
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 3: to come. In the next little while, we'll speak to c.

724
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 3: Pormelele Zondi, a tech expert. There's a huge issue around

725
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: microchips at the moment, which is having a big impact

726
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 3: on the price you'll pay for your next cell phone.

727
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 3: Blelani Balabala, the founder of the Township Entrepreneurs Agency Productivity

728
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 3: Hacks for small business. Why you might be busy but

729
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 3: not productive. I think that's an important conversation. And don't

730
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 3: forget investment in school tonight, Clelo Guillors and in sequence

731
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 3: of call law in tonight, as your teachers, my teacher,

732
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 3: I suppose I should say, we'll be talking about what

733
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,959
Speaker 3: are called market choke points, things that will stop your

734
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 3: investments from growing and how to avoid them. Quite looking

735
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 3: forward to that good year from you O double one,

736
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 3: double A three oh seven oh two two one four

737
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,479
Speaker 3: four six oh five six seven and Voice notes seven

738
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 3: seven two one seven two The Laly Show.

739
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 5: With Stephen Krudi's Line on ninety two point seven and

740
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 5: one six FM streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

741
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 2: Snap and DStv channel eight five six.

742
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: Quite a few reports this evening that the CEO of

743
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 3: Joeburg's City Power, Trifolaro Mashava, has resigned. She's been a

744
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 3: CEO for four years or so. I understand the official

745
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: sort of statement of the email to staff and all

746
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 3: the rest says to pursue other interests. It does come,

747
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 3: of course, I should tell you after the Hawks raided

748
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 3: the headquarters of City Power last year, and they've all

749
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: been sort of consistent complaints and I kind of never

750
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 3: know what to do in these moments or what to say,

751
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 3: I suppose, really what to think about someone. So there's

752
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 3: been no formal charge against Shuflaro Mashava, and no one

753
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 3: can say she's guilty of X y Z. We haven't

754
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: had a finding of anything like that. At the same time, though,

755
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 3: you know, you look around what's happening in Joeberg, you

756
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 3: look around what's happening in the electricity provision. You hear

757
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 3: that the Hawks have actually raided, and it seems we're

758
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: investigating her personally, and you kind of don't really know

759
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 3: what's going on. And doesn't this tell you just the

760
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 3: context of it tell you something about city owned entities

761
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 3: and perhaps to an extent, some of the metros and

762
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 3: particularly joe Burg. Sometimes you hear the City of joe

763
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 3: Burg says and you just think, well, I don't believe it,

764
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 3: and isn't that such a problem. Someone can be an

765
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: important position, absolutely clean, but because they're just in the entity,

766
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 3: they say they're clean, you don't believe them. I mean

767
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 3: it goes the other way too. Sometimes you do believe

768
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 3: them because the entity that they're in has a reputation

769
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: for being clean, and it turns out that in fact

770
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 3: they weren't so tricky. But I can't get away from

771
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 3: the fact that once the hawks have raided you, I

772
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 3: don't think people are going to believe you when you

773
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 3: say you're resigning to pursue other interests. I think, let

774
00:41:58,440 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 3: me put it like this, and I've said this to

775
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 3: you for hrare cynical people in a very cynical age,

776
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 3: particularly when it comes to local government, and even more particularly,

777
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 3: I'm afraid to say to the city of Joeburg at

778
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 3: the moment eleven after.

779
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: Seven, how many take Thursday?

780
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 3: Well, it does look like there's going to be some

781
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 3: issues in the laptop and smartphone industry because of a

782
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 3: shortage of microchips. Youpu Maleela Zondi is a decade expert.

783
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: It joins us now Supermalelo good evening. Some of the

784
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 3: ways they create these microchips are just extraordinary. It's a

785
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 3: kind of process of printing. The printers are designed and

786
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 3: made I think in the Netherlands or is it Belgium.

787
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 3: They end up many of them in Taiwan. It's the

788
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 3: most extraordinary industry. Why suddenly is there short the shortage

789
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 3: of microchips.

790
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 8: Hello Steveland.

791
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 6: It's actually, yeah, quite interesting exact that happens with these

792
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 6: different parts of components more into different parts of the

793
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 6: world in order for them to be made. But this

794
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 6: is all because of the fast rate of a development

795
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 6: that's happening at the moment where you're finding that some

796
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 6: of the big players in the AI sector are buying

797
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 6: up a lot of these, especially the powerful ones, these microchips,

798
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 6: and then keeping them almost to themselves because they do

799
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 6: realize that they're going to need them for these data

800
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 6: centers that are powering up everybody. And again the microchip

801
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 6: makers now focusing on developing a lot of these micro

802
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 6: microchips for those particular developments that goes through our everyday

803
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 6: achieve cell phones the world cheaper in relation to what

804
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 6: they could be making if they now start making uh,

805
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 6: these chips for big AI machines and data centers and

806
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 6: the like. So that's what's causing basically the spike in demand,

807
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 6: and the spike in demand means that the makers of

808
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 6: these microstrips can't pick up with the amount that that's needed.

809
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 3: How big a factor is in the phones and laptops.

810
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 3: I mean, I realized the microship is kind of the

811
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 3: heart of it. Sometimes that doesn't necessarily mean the most

812
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 3: expensive part.

813
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 6: The thing is as you say, it is at the

814
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 6: heart of it. But if you can't find them, and

815
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 6: if there isn't enough. Interestingly enough, there's a company like them,

816
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 6: suf which makes microchips but makes these devices as well,

817
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 6: and even they are complaining that they're not going to

818
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 6: have enough for even the other appliances and technologies because

819
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 6: this is something that gets used throughout your home. Think

820
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 6: about your fridge, it uses a micro chip. Think about

821
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 6: your car, it needs it, and your phone as well,

822
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 6: it needs it. So you find that a company that

823
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 6: makes it and also makes these other technologies is also

824
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 6: complaining to say, because of the amount of demand that

825
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 6: it needs to keep up with, it's going to not

826
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 6: even have enough for its own devices and appliances that

827
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 6: it makes. And what that then is going to do

828
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 6: is going to it's going to hike the price of

829
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 6: those different technologies and appliance. This is because there's a

830
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 6: shortage of this one important component that goes in it,

831
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 6: and the price of that one important component that goes

832
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 6: in it has also gone up.

833
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 3: The AI data centers that everyone's talking about, they're going

834
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 3: to struggle as well.

835
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 6: Well, that's the thing, right because this is what this

836
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 6: is what is taking up all these microchips. But is

837
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 6: there going to be enough for them? But then again,

838
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,959
Speaker 6: there are also other issues that are being raised about

839
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 6: these data censors and the energy that they use and

840
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 6: whether there's even enough energy that can go into it.

841
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 6: So for them, they need energy, they need this powerful microchips.

842
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 6: They've turned them.

843
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 8: They've turned the.

844
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 6: Technology sector almost upside down, to the point that tech

845
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 6: poses like Tim Cook and Elan Masga are even complaining

846
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 6: to say that's the tech sector in its entirety is

847
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 6: going to struggle because of these data centers. That's also

848
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 6: going to struggle because of the amount of microchips that

849
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 6: are going to be needed.

850
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 3: I mean, apart from just making a lot more, which

851
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 3: is actually quite difficult to do for various reasons. Is

852
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 3: there any other way around it?

853
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 6: Well, it's actually quite difficult because China is also trying

854
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 6: to make this on microchips, but they're not as powerful

855
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 6: as what's being made in Western countries, but also when

856
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 6: using thing about the terroriffts as well, and the blockade

857
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 6: of some of the of the product including chips that

858
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 6: are coming from China. So China is trying to build

859
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 6: some of these because they are struggling to import. So

860
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 6: even what already exists in other parts of the world,

861
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 6: they think about the amount of technology that comes out

862
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 6: of China, the motto the cars, the motel industry that

863
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 6: also exists in China now and they can't import because

864
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 6: of their relations with other countries, especially the United States

865
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 6: of America, where there are companies like Zdail which make

866
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 6: quite a lot of them. So that's also an a

867
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 6: problem that's been caused and the sharing of these devices.

868
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 6: For it, in the past, a company in the East

869
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 6: like China could just import, but because there's such an

870
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 6: issue then it's like hold up, keep them in our territory.

871
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 6: To not share that then even exacerbates the problem that's

872
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 6: already been started by the fact that the AI industry

873
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 6: has taken so much. But the fact that they are

874
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,919
Speaker 6: these now, these terroriffs, the fact that China also wants

875
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 6: to hold on to what it's making even though it's

876
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 6: not as powerful as what already exists just yet, and

877
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 6: even if they get there, they're not going to want

878
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 6: to share because a lot of technology is being developed

879
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 6: there as well. So it's multiple problems happening at the

880
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,919
Speaker 6: same time, and the person that gets affected the most

881
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 6: is you and I essentially the consumer that needs these

882
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 6: technologies and appliances in the home, because we're going to

883
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 6: have to be paying more for it.

884
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 3: Some people benefiting from it in some way, are they

885
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 3: able to buy past it somehow?

886
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 6: The are middlemen that seems to be involved in all

887
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 6: of this as well, But it also seems like what

888
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 6: the middlemen are doing and they you're basically with the

889
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,439
Speaker 6: tech companies, but it also seems like what they're doing

890
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 6: so hike the prices because they realize the demand that

891
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 6: its career has been created by all of this. So yes,

892
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 6: there are people who are benefiting. But if tech bosses

893
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 6: themselves are already complaining and they're saying it's going to

894
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 6: impact on their stocks. So you were thinking that the

895
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 6: tech industry would be celebrating that prices are going up,

896
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 6: but they're saying, well, hold on, if we have a shortage,

897
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 6: how much further development of this product can we have

898
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 6: because we have a shortage?

899
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 3: Sure, so interesting, Supermelela, thank you, Super Malela Zondies our

900
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 3: tech expert microchips and the problems that could happen, I

901
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 3: mean issues with your car. Can you imagine you won't

902
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 3: be able to buy a washing machine because you know,

903
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 3: you just can't get the microchip for it. Really amazing.

904
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 3: Eighteen minutes after seven.

905
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 2: The Money showed small business focus.

906
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 3: Twenty minutes after seven the Time. One of the biggest

907
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 3: issues can sometimes be around execution, getting things done, and

908
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 3: you're running a small business, you're an entrepreneur, and it's overwhelming.

909
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 3: They are things that are distracting you. You're kind of

910
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 3: constantly busy, and I suppose the trick is to somehow

911
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 3: remain productive in all of that. Blani Bala Balus, the

912
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 3: founder of the Township Entrepreneurs Agency Bililani houses Man, thanks

913
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 3: for coming in, good evening. I always have this image,

914
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 3: and I've seen it so many times. You have a

915
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 3: small business owner and they're harassed and they're busy, and

916
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 3: they're doing things not always productive, definitely not always productive.

917
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 16: And I think, and I always say, right, I mean,

918
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 16: activity doesn't mean productivity, you know, I think and the

919
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 16: number of small businesses really experiences from the moment they

920
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 16: wake up in the morning, You're answering calls, emails, messages,

921
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 16: and then the whole entire day becomes a reactive day.

922
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 16: You are totally out of bounds of the day and

923
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 16: you could you're not managing your time. And the reality

924
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 16: of it is that in that moment, with that, with

925
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 16: that lack of management and organization, every single thing that

926
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 16: comes on your table comes across as urgent because you

927
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 16: don't have a full control and balance of your productivity.

928
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 3: So what's the sort of one productivity hack that most

929
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: most small businesses would be able to implement immediately?

930
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 16: I think more than anything, I mean charity, right, Charity

931
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 16: your focus more more than anything. It's not about choosing

932
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 16: ten or twenty deliverables for that particular week. I think

933
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 16: every single small business owner needs to then pick out

934
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 16: what are the two or three k milestones that you

935
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 16: want to achieve in that particular week, focus on them deeply,

936
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 16: and execute those particular thing particular milestones. Because what that

937
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 16: then does it that it brings you closer towards being

938
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 16: productive as opposed to having your head all over the show.

939
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: I mean one thing that works really well in companies.

940
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 3: Bigger companies do this all the time is their structure

941
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 3: people's day. I mean you can do it just with

942
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 3: meeting rooms. You know, you have to book meeting rooms

943
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 3: for an hour. You structure suddenly at people's day. Can

944
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 3: a small business structure their day too?

945
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 4: Definitely? I mean structure.

946
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 16: I mean structure is everything when you think about it,

947
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 16: because what structure does it there it harnesses productivity, but

948
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 16: also most importantly, it also then helps you to channel

949
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 16: where efforts and energy goes. When you operate in structure,

950
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 16: you're operating with deep levels of intention, meaning that things

951
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 16: are not just done for the soul's sake of you

952
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 16: doing them, but you are able to then harness and

953
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 16: also most importantly, measure out where your efforts are actually going.

954
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 16: I think a couple of months ago, a couple of

955
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 16: series ago, we spoke about this. When you spoke about finances,

956
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 16: you sort of look up and you look at your

957
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 16: finances and their contents, as you've made five million, but

958
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 16: you can't account for where the money went. Similarly to

959
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,240
Speaker 16: productivity and time will look up and we can't account

960
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 16: for where the time went.

961
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 3: I mean, are there systems or processes you can have,

962
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 3: you know, things that will over time, really increase the

963
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 3: productivity the amount that you actually get done. That's good, definitely,

964
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 3: I mean systems.

965
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 16: I mean, if you want to grow and scale your business,

966
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 16: you can't do that in the absence of systems or processes,

967
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 16: which then means that systems then become the bedrock of

968
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 16: growth because what do systems then guarantee at the end

969
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 16: of the day, they guarantee I mean, think about it

970
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 16: this way. In the simplest term, what are systems is

971
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 16: the checklist. It's the shared meetings that we have as

972
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 16: a team, the morning hurdles, the debriefs that we then

973
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 16: have with the briefing documents that we then put together. That's,

974
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 16: in the most basic sense, a system because it's the

975
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 16: way in which things are done in an organization with

976
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 16: the lack of structure means chaos. The moment you start

977
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 16: to build in structure in your business, what you guarantee

978
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 16: is what you guarantee is continuity. The moment you've got continuity,

979
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 16: you breed consistency. When you've got consistency in your business,

980
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 16: guess what happens now? Excellence and the inter predictability of

981
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 16: excellence becomes inevitable within your business. Now you're not longer

982
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 16: a full time employees strangulated by delivery. You can actually

983
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 16: optimize your time because you're working on not being caught

984
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:06,240
Speaker 16: up within the business.

985
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 3: It's actually so interesting. I mean, I've been into all

986
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 3: sorts of places and you can tell in a second

987
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 3: whether it's organized or not.

988
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.

989
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 3: You know, I've been into shops that compete against each

990
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 3: other next to each other, and you can tell one's

991
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 3: more organized than the other, and the organization works.

992
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 16: Yeah, no, definitely, And I think that's the you know,

993
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 16: I think the crazy thing about someone who's caught up

994
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 16: within the organization and they paddling each in every day.

995
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 16: They are under the assumption that all the proof measures,

996
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 16: that they're trying to block out all the holes on

997
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 16: the bucket every single day, that the customers don't actually realize.

998
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 16: They do realize that, And I think for me, then

999
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 16: it becomes very very important for this individual, and I

1000
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 16: think for anyone out there to understand that productivity singularly

1001
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 16: is about protection.

1002
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 4: What are you protecting? You're protecting your time.

1003
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 16: You're gonna block out, You're gonna be intentional about blocking

1004
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 16: out an hour or two year week so that you

1005
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 16: do deep work in structuring your business. The reason why

1006
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 16: utilize protection in the particular context and say it is

1007
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 16: that time is the most valuable resource all of us

1008
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 16: have been given. The thing about time is that with

1009
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 16: you know, with lost opportunities, we might be comforted about

1010
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 16: the fact that we might regain, but we never regained

1011
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 16: the lost time.

1012
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 4: You regain the new efforts that you put into new opportunities.

1013
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 16: Singularly, when you think about regret, you know, the very

1014
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 16: heart of it, regrets is what I could have done,

1015
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 16: what I should have done, what I wanted to do,

1016
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 16: but I didn't actually do, which means that the fears

1017
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 16: that we've built up are worth nothing if you don't

1018
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 16: execute at the end of the day.

1019
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 3: I love what you say about protecting your time, and

1020
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 3: I think that's so true. You know, I know people

1021
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 3: who block off parts, you know, a Friday afternoon because

1022
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 3: they're doing something that's very important to them at the time.

1023
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 3: For twenty twenty six, is there a particular productivity mindset

1024
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 3: shift that small businesses really need to get into.

1025
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 16: Definitely, I mean, I think I think one of the

1026
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 16: biggest one I think, I think, I wanna, I want,

1027
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 16: I want to throw a two part too bad rights.

1028
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 16: The first one is is demestifying the concept that has

1029
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 16: always said if you are not not moving, you're not

1030
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 16: being productive. And extra fact, rest is the highest level

1031
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 16: of productivity because you're able to show up as you

1032
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 16: show up for your clients and for your work and

1033
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 16: for your team as a whole individual. And I think

1034
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 16: the biggest productivity you had for me is focus, right, focus, focus,

1035
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 16: crystal focus. And I think I cannot emphasize this enough.

1036
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 16: I mean, think about it than this particular sense. You've

1037
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 16: got a business that's growing, and they think that to themselves,

1038
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 16: how can you build multiple revenue streams?

1039
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 4: And I always say this right.

1040
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 16: One of the best ways to build it without losing focus,

1041
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 16: especially as in emerging businesses, find aspects of the value

1042
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 16: chain that you can resupply so that you still still

1043
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 16: still remain and stay within the ecosystem and you are

1044
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 16: not scattered. Because when you go into a funder raising capital,

1045
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 16: even if you do not have the financial clearance or

1046
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 16: the financial approval or the whatever the financial scoring is

1047
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 16: to garner you that financial positioning, guess what you've built credibility,

1048
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 16: which is that equity suite equity that you put in

1049
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 16: in being credible within the industry that you are in

1050
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 16: focus as.

1051
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 3: Focus hand rest, Bililani, thank you really appreciate that. Protecting

1052
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 3: your time. Bililani Balabala is the founder of the Township

1053
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 3: Entrepreneurs Agency.

1054
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: The Money Show Investment School twenty.

1055
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 3: Four minutes now to seven the time, Well, the topic

1056
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 3: for tonight an investment school is what you do as

1057
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 3: an investor, how to be strategic when they are market

1058
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 3: choke points, in other words, things that could really come

1059
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 3: and sort of get in the way, things that could

1060
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 3: stop you from making as much money as you should,

1061
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 3: or things that could actually cost your investments. Lucky enough

1062
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,839
Speaker 3: to have in the studio logo, or said the chief

1063
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 3: investment officer and principle at First Avenue Investment Management. You've

1064
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 3: heard it many times on The Money Show. Also very

1065
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 3: pleased to welcome someone new to The Money Show and

1066
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 3: se call up the equity analyst at SaaS and Wealth. Gentlemen,

1067
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 3: thanks so much for coming in, really to appreciate it.

1068
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 3: In seek to let me start with you would what

1069
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 3: would define a choke point in investment terms, and I'm

1070
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 3: presuming something that can happen that can stop you making money.

1071
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 4: One hundred percent. Thank you so much even for having

1072
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 4: us on.

1073
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 17: Now, when we think about choke points, we just think

1074
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,240
Speaker 17: about other compediments to our investment. Thesis is specifically certainly

1075
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 17: ones that we didn't see or didn't for you know,

1076
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 17: forecasts going into which kind of forces us as investors

1077
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 17: to perhaps then make an on site decision about whether

1078
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 17: or not to continue with an investment and whether or

1079
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 17: not the thesis holds up, or to kind of take

1080
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 17: the loss to the face and perhaps reallocate capital.

1081
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 3: So I mean, I mean a lot of people would

1082
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 3: see just as an obvious example, COVID is a check

1083
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 3: as a choke point. The thing about COVID was it

1084
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 3: probably affected almost everybody. But would COVID be a good

1085
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 3: example of something that was a check a choke point

1086
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 3: or could have been?

1087
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 4: Oh no, certainly.

1088
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 17: So I think almost like like COVID really give us

1089
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 17: these black swan events where really you think they don't

1090
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 17: occur regularly, but they certainly seem to sharp every five

1091
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 17: to ten years, and it certainly creates a choke point opportunity.

1092
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 17: And you know, for investors that are skilled enough and en,

1093
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 17: I've got an opportunity for for certain invests to really

1094
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 17: get into the certain equities and positions that we like

1095
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 17: and that you know, haven't come up on discount for

1096
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 17: a very long time.

1097
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 3: Clearlo. There must be so many other examples throughout history,

1098
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 3: and I mean, I know immediately the most famous one,

1099
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 3: you know, the Great Depression.

1100
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,439
Speaker 10: Yes, you know we we actually are going through one now,

1101
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 10: the up ending of the global wall trade order. Right,

1102
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 10: breton Wood institutions are no longer functioning as they used

1103
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 10: to function. In fact, I don't think they exist anymore,

1104
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 10: by the way. Yeah, So that's a true point that

1105
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 10: has led led to the rise of gold and precious

1106
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 10: metals as an alternative to the US dollar. Right, investors

1107
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 10: are thinking about the fiscal stability of nations, the indebtedness

1108
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 10: of nations.

1109
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 3: Japan is one of them.

1110
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 10: If you look at the long end of the bond

1111
00:58:54,960 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 10: thirty year curve, UH investors expressing their dissatisfaction at the

1112
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 10: deterioration in government financials at that point. UH, with with

1113
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 10: the US being the same. Right, a lot of countries

1114
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 10: reinvesting in ornaments Europe to try to combat UH Russia

1115
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 10: UH and reinvest in the economy and infrastructure. So the

1116
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 10: the level of indebtedness is out of kilter, right with

1117
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 10: with with with the credit worthiness that investors have come

1118
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 10: to expect, hence doubt about the veracity of the various currencies.

1119
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 10: So the only outlet is gold, right, So gold is

1120
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 10: acting as an anchor now to foreign reserves, to fear currency.

1121
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 10: And so if you're operating on the stock market and

1122
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 10: you don't own gold, you have a big problem because

1123
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 10: how else do you create wealth without that asset has an.

1124
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 3: Alternative to money?

1125
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 4: M hm.

1126
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 3: Would it always be that the major choke points are

1127
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 3: kind of you know, depressions or bubbles or crises. Can

1128
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 3: other things be choke points too? I mean, I suppose

1129
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 3: in a way what we're going through now is in

1130
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 3: I mean, I suppose it is a crisis, but it

1131
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 3: isn't a crisis. I mean, in history, we'll probably see

1132
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 3: it as a crisis. I don't know if I do now,

1133
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 3: but I'm thinking, for example, I mean, the quantitative easing

1134
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 3: when that started, that changed people the outcome of investments now.

1135
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 17: Certainly, so we have you can speak about your natural ones,

1136
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 17: the ones that we seem to see me precipitated in

1137
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 17: the market through natural events, or you have kind of

1138
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 17: these ones, these self created ones, and that perhaps when

1139
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 17: we acted with quantitive easing and we release so much

1140
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 17: money into the economy, the reticence around exactly how we're

1141
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 17: going to unwind this trade, you know, it wasn't there.

1142
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 17: And I think perhaps the short nature, the short nature

1143
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 17: of how our leadership perhaps that's in some of these

1144
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 17: seats when you have people only sitting for four or

1145
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 17: five years, you know, psycophantic kind of habits turn to

1146
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 17: rear their heads, and people are self serving very much

1147
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 17: so in trying to get the period in time to

1148
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 17: work well, not necessarily thinking perhaps for the future. So

1149
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 17: self created. Certainly, quantity easing is one that certainly jumps

1150
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 17: to mind. And on the back of a financial crisis

1151
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 17: that again was you know, very much self created in

1152
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 17: the selling of you know, irresponsible financial instruments Clilo.

1153
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 3: What happens when you're on the wrong side of a

1154
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 3: choke point? A couple of things happen.

1155
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 10: A couple of things happen. Number one is, if you're

1156
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 10: an individual investor, you could potentially lose all your capital,

1157
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 10: the assets or the securities you hold.

1158
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 3: Could go bankrupt.

1159
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 10: Right, So when you think about the market crash and

1160
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 10: you don't have correct risk management in the portfolio that

1161
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 10: you've put together, you could lose all that capital. But

1162
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 10: if you're a professional money manager, as we are now,

1163
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 10: if you're on the wrong side of a choke point,

1164
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 10: you could impair the commerciality of that product such that

1165
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 10: clients in it one out and nobody winds in.

1166
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 3: And that has ended a lot of careers.

1167
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 10: But more importantly, it has regressed, if not retarded, the

1168
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 10: retirement schedules that some people thought they were on track

1169
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 10: to achieve. And it could make clients on investors to

1170
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 10: have to work a little longer because they lost money

1171
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 10: in a whole point. Okay, so in seeking, now we

1172
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 10: know how scary this is. How do you start to

1173
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 10: get away from it? How do you protect your your

1174
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 10: investment portfolio from this kind of thing?

1175
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 4: So I think there's two schools of thoughtyer.

1176
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 17: I think the main one for me is concentration bills

1177
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 17: wealth and diversification protects it. And so you know, when

1178
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 17: you're super concentrated in single securities or single themes, you

1179
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 17: can create an enormous amount of wealth. I mean, investors

1180
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 17: invested in Savania made three four, but it's just an

1181
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 17: eight billion learn payment go through the business as early

1182
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 17: as yesterday, So the quality of the business also rearing

1183
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 17: its head. And I think so when you talk about

1184
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 17: protecting wealth, we think about diversification. We think about, you know,

1185
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 17: twenty to twenty four securities, preferably on a global basis,

1186
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,200
Speaker 17: that all represent best in class solutions and hopefully a

1187
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 17: lack of correlation. If you're you know, You're Nvidia, theme

1188
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 17: seems to fall apart. Perhaps you invested in Walmart, and

1189
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 17: I think staying diversified will keep you away from it

1190
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 17: making any major mistakes. But that being said, I think

1191
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 17: you'll only get I don't say mediocre, but market returns

1192
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 17: doing that. To really create wealth, you have to be

1193
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 17: willing to swing the battle bit and so those those

1194
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 17: show points again can become those opportunities to turn your

1195
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 17: odds towards your favor.

1196
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 3: I'm sort of immediately thinking, you know, fail or as

1197
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 3: soon as you talk diversity, you think, well, surely what

1198
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 3: you do as you buy the index. But I'm reminded

1199
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 3: that in the case of the Great Depression, that Dow

1200
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 3: only got back to the same number. What was it

1201
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 3: in the nineteen fifties. Yeah, it took so long, So

1202
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 3: buying the index wouldn't have saved you. Even during the

1203
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 3: Second World World wouldn't have safety.

1204
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 10: I think during the Great Depression the index lost ninety

1205
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 10: percent of its value. So risk management is really important.

1206
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 10: It's it's similar as in boxing. Protect yourself at all times. Right,

1207
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 10: that's the that's a mantra. Here and South Africa. Investing

1208
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 10: on the GRC is even more dangerous because remember, we

1209
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 10: used to have one thousand companies on the stock market

1210
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 10: back in nineteen ninety eight, nineteen eighty nine. Now we

1211
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 10: have only Turnard twenty five. We used to have a

1212
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 10: diverse range of sectors. We probably have only fifteen sectors

1213
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 10: now subsectors now, right, we used to have a very

1214
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 10: vibrant small cap sector for all intentsal purposes, we don't anymore.

1215
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 10: The top forty of the JC accounts for the vast majority,

1216
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 10: about eighty percent of the market cap or the JC. Right,

1217
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 10: so diversification is even far more important.

1218
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 7: Now.

1219
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 10: How do you diversify You diversified by type of return

1220
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 10: that these twenty five companies give you on the stock market. Clearly,

1221
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 10: some companies that are so good and so strong that

1222
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 10: they that they appeal to the concept of compounding over

1223
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 10: a long period of time, that Capy texts the shorp rise,

1224
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 10: the qulture's those become the bedrock of your portfolio. But

1225
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 10: what tends to kill you, meaning if you get it wrong,

1226
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 10: it kills you. And if you get it right you

1227
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 10: can create an almost amount of wealth, albeit on the

1228
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 10: short term, is getting your call and resources right because

1229
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 10: they are extremely volatile, right, and if you balance compounding

1230
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 10: with an appropriate exposure to companies that respond to global

1231
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 10: systematic risks like we are going through now, some companies

1232
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 10: respond really well to that, right, like gold responds really

1233
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 10: well to that. Right, then you can have a two

1234
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 10: track process in your portfolio where you concentrate in compounding

1235
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 10: slowly when you're the race of a time, but you

1236
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 10: have access to goal counters or precious metal counters platinum

1237
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 10: as well. Right, that helps you keep up with the

1238
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 10: stock market. But if the stock market falls, right, you're

1239
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 10: not that over exposed to it. But your compounding is

1240
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 10: like keeps you afloat.

1241
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 3: Okay, So in CICCA, there's there's also I suppose you

1242
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 3: know how you deliver I think it's called a competitive

1243
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 3: information ratio. You you want to make sure that you

1244
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 3: are looking at investments in a way that kind of

1245
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 3: whatever happens, you're going to be fine. But I mean,

1246
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 3: you keep coming back to the same tension, don't you,

1247
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 3: which is that you need to concentrate if you're really

1248
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 3: going to get rich.

1249
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 17: Yes, so and so Funny. I think the information fight

1250
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:51,959
Speaker 17: is one that's also evolved over time. You know, Warren

1251
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 17: Buffett speaks about the days where they would fight for

1252
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 17: pieces of you know, fight for magazines and articles, and

1253
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 17: you'd be fighting to get all this information. And I

1254
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 17: think as an investment manager that these days it's very

1255
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 17: much about the opposite and turning away which information to

1256
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 17: turn away, Which information is not important, which information is

1257
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 17: actually going to impede your returns, and you know, into

1258
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 17: you know, the eighty twenty rules and ensuring that you

1259
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 17: are focused on that twenty percent that produces the eighty

1260
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 17: percent of the returns. And to Sender's point about you know,

1261
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 17: the top forty representing eighty percent of a you know,

1262
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 17: market cap of the total jac you have to get

1263
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 17: those calls right. You know, whether or not you get

1264
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 17: your rats and mice correct, and you create you know,

1265
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 17: asymmetric returns from clients is great, but you must get

1266
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 17: your calls from the major top forty correct. And so

1267
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 17: you have just risk management and making sure that you're

1268
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 17: looking at and again considering the right things at the

1269
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,000
Speaker 17: right times and not you know, of applying your mind

1270
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 17: to companies and things that aren't going to affect and

1271
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 17: you know, ensure that our clients retire with dignity Philo.

1272
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 3: There are lots of people would who talk about buying

1273
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 3: the depths big thing at the moment. Yes, you have

1274
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 3: businesses that look broken, but they that you can see

1275
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 3: they're going to improve. Right, how do you identify the

1276
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 3: ones that have the highest chance of actually turning around

1277
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 3: doing well? And it can't just be because they've broken

1278
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 3: the new CEO.

1279
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 10: So that is a really difficult thing to do, and

1280
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 10: it's it's best not tried by most people because those

1281
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 10: are turnaround opportunities.

1282
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 8: Right.

1283
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 10: Number one is you have to have very strong patent

1284
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:25,599
Speaker 10: recognition of how that has happened in the past. Yeah, right,

1285
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 10: But you have to start with a good base. And

1286
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 10: when a company used to be a great company. A

1287
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 10: great example is Tiger Brands used to be a great

1288
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 10: company and someone in two thousand and six after the

1289
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 10: bread scandal, they lost their way and they try to

1290
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 10: point a few CEOs. Peter Matari didn't work out, Noel

1291
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 10: Doley didn't work out. And just about three years ago,

1292
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 10: twenty twenty two, they appointed a guy called Tarrod Krueger,

1293
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 10: and he came from Premier and he had really done

1294
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 10: a great job at Premiere and his depth of experience

1295
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 10: really came to the four and Tiger Brands has turned around.

1296
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 10: But to identify whether all musual is going to work

1297
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 10: with a new guy who's there, well, then pick and

1298
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 10: pay will work as Tiger Brands has worked. That takes

1299
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 10: pattern recognition of the highest order. It is probably the

1300
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 10: hardest thing to do, the hardest thing to do an investment.

1301
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 3: Don't do it.

1302
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 4: Don't do it.

1303
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 3: If you can't do it, don't sure.

1304
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 9: How do you know?

1305
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,760
Speaker 3: Will you'll find out if you don't. Investment school this

1306
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 3: evening yours is the chief Investment Officer, First Avenue Investment

1307
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 3: Management and Seeking. SOCOLO is in equity, understand sasspen wealth.

1308
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:41,639
Speaker 3: How do you avoid market choke points? Is our topic tonight.

1309
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 3: To put it's another way, how do we keep your

1310
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 3: money safe? You listen to the money Show. It's eleven minutes.

1311
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,920
Speaker 14: Stay the Money Show. Stupid Protest is brought to you

1312
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 14: by Abscess c ib Discover the latest trends shaping digital

1313
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 14: assets across Africa. Download the ABSOE Africa Digital Assets.

1314
01:09:59,040 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 9: Insights twenty t.

1315
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:03,639
Speaker 4: Not the Money Show.

1316
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 3: Investment School nine minutes to eight The time and sequence

1317
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 3: of Carlos Equity and As Assessment Wealth Clay Log where

1318
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:12,799
Speaker 3: your se chief investment officer at the First Avenue Investment

1319
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,640
Speaker 3: Management Investors strategies for market choke points and seek. There

1320
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 3: are some companies or businesses that really are all about

1321
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 3: risk appetite or risk aversion. I think Gold's the classic

1322
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 3: example of risk aversion. That's where we are now. There

1323
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 3: must be some that you go to when you have

1324
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 3: an appetite for risk.

1325
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 17: No, certainly, and I think the moment you stop dropping

1326
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 17: between a lower one percent waiting and the all Z,

1327
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 17: you're probably getting into that territory. And look the amazing

1328
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,160
Speaker 17: companies or small caps on the JC some of our

1329
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:46,280
Speaker 17: favorites from Telcom to PSG and a lot of these

1330
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 17: are again we love Hero and these companies that are

1331
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 17: owner led, family run and truly where the ownership, where

1332
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,719
Speaker 17: the ownership and the asymmetric relationship with benefit and loss

1333
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 17: are really tied to the to the founders and operating

1334
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 17: fund us. So we saw similar things in this game,

1335
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 17: and those are companies that do well. It's because everyone

1336
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 17: is fully aligned on the mission statement of creating value

1337
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 17: for clients and creating value for you know, for themselves.

1338
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 17: So we really look for I mean as an investment philosophy,

1339
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 17: we like owner lad and owner run companies with great

1340
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 17: track records and with good succession planning.

1341
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 4: I mean the ruperts and everything that's gone on this

1342
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 4: or something.

1343
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:23,599
Speaker 17: Yeah, this game is a great example, but I mean

1344
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 17: with like with every business that comes and enter the

1345
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 17: useful life of that and when you need real operators

1346
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 17: to come and take an over. But Heinek and the

1347
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 17: business again completely a family run cartier or what we're

1348
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 17: seeing an LVMH in the transition there. So these companies

1349
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 17: can be great and when those transition planning is done correctly,

1350
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 17: you can create amazing value for clients. And it's really

1351
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 17: in knowing that you know that owner is fully tied

1352
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 17: like I am, to the success of this company.

1353
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 3: Phailow, I need to ask a technical question. Someone asks

1354
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 3: you to use small words please. Liquidity in terms of

1355
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 3: how often companies shares change hands, Yeah, it plays quite

1356
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 3: a big role in the performance of shares in the sector.

1357
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 3: And then you have passive investors, which is becoming a

1358
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 3: sort of big, big proportion of investors. They have different

1359
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 3: impacts as well. So I suppose I'm asking a question

1360
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 3: about does market structure matter when you're choosing your kind

1361
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 3: of risks and appetite.

1362
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 10: More than if ever mattered before. I'm a black Rock

1363
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 10: is fourteen trillion dollars now and black Rock is a

1364
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 10: passive investor. Their liquidity is ETFs right, which are passive

1365
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 10: instruments that will invest in a basket of companies. So,

1366
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 10: for instance, mister Price is only in ten ets around

1367
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 10: the world, First Rund is in twenty ets around the world,

1368
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 10: Angler Gold is in one hundred and forty four sure

1369
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 10: ts around the world. This is the reason why you

1370
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 10: see that, you know, goal shares move around like they

1371
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 10: do because they're purchased directly on the stock market, but

1372
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 10: they also purchased through ets. England American and BHP Built

1373
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 10: while HP are in two hundred ETFs each, So the

1374
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:09,759
Speaker 10: demand for those companies is staggering. There are trillions looking

1375
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,960
Speaker 10: for ENGL American and the gold accessing in them through

1376
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 10: different means. They are more trillion looking for those and

1377
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 10: they are looking for mister price.

1378
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 3: So that means then that those prices are always going

1379
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 3: to be I mean, if there's demand, the place will respond.

1380
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 10: There will be greater demand than the resk supply at

1381
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 10: some point, and then when demand goes away, the volatility

1382
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:33,840
Speaker 10: would be just staggering. But the most important point I

1383
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,760
Speaker 10: think we should point out here is that fundamental investors

1384
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 10: will used to dominate the landscape and provide price discovery.

1385
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 10: I think are being slowly overtaken by passive investors who

1386
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 10: have incredible liquidity. They dictate what happens to share prices,

1387
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:52,839
Speaker 10: not value share prices.

1388
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 3: In seek, it can look like to someone like me

1389
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 3: that all the investment all have the same kind of products.

1390
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 3: They're all have a wonderful name that's the sort of

1391
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 3: wild animal or a mythical Greek figure or something. Yeah,

1392
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 3: I mean I sort of always think of the same

1393
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:16,800
Speaker 3: kind of characters. Are they particular strategies or sort of

1394
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:20,719
Speaker 3: less crowded areas that if you're a South African investing

1395
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 3: you can actually get some action in.

1396
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 17: No, certainly look again, your risk AWD appetitis determinant on

1397
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 17: what you want to look at. But there, I mean

1398
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 17: there are companies at take great part in. Look at

1399
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 17: companies like Perigrine Capital and what Jack and Rady and

1400
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 17: the team have been able to do there, I mean

1401
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 17: one hundred percent you know return over ten years or something.

1402
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 17: I mean it's create a generational wealth, not just for

1403
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 17: the investing parties in the business, but every single client

1404
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 17: invested in it. And so although they all might look

1405
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 17: the same, I think investors should always look closely to

1406
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 17: a fun fact sheet and look too long term return

1407
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 17: profiles and whether or not the team one can execute

1408
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 17: on the promise that they've put on the on the

1409
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 17: stick ahead and two of those returns are sufficient for

1410
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 17: you to be able to in your life afterwards. But

1411
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,879
Speaker 17: I mean the incredible products in South Africa world competing

1412
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 17: ones and ones I put forward is you know, for

1413
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 17: the qualified investor who feels weld enough, I'd look at

1414
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:09,520
Speaker 17: his fund strategies.

1415
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 4: The likes of Lawyer and Capital, Peregrin and the like.

1416
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 17: They have amazing strategies and I think the use of

1417
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 17: you know, options specifically on the shortening side has also

1418
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 17: been very good in a very volatile market and the

1419
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 17: beta that we have in the Jersey.

1420
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 3: Some are better than others. Right, you need you need

1421
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 3: to be quite careful about how you do that, clo.

1422
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 3: I mean, when you try and sort of diversify and

1423
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 3: you want to reduce your risk, you obviously want to

1424
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 3: keep making sure that you get wealthough.

1425
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:40,280
Speaker 7: You.

1426
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:42,800
Speaker 3: I mean, if you if you had said five years

1427
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:44,719
Speaker 3: ago you would need to have so much more exposure

1428
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:47,840
Speaker 3: to gold, people would not have believed you. So you're

1429
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:51,559
Speaker 3: trying to even three years ago. So you're you're trying

1430
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:54,200
Speaker 3: to kind of quantify things that are going to happen,

1431
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 3: which is the whole point. And I suppose it then

1432
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 3: gets quite messy in terms of how you decide where

1433
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 3: you're going to put your money. The people who went

1434
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 3: into gold first made a fortune. Everybody else is followed,

1435
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:08,479
Speaker 3: and that's fine, but they're not going to make anything

1436
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 3: like that.

1437
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 10: Well, I think, as I always say, you know, when

1438
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 10: you get into a boxing file, they tell you you

1439
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:17,600
Speaker 10: keep your guards up at all times, right, So the

1440
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:20,759
Speaker 10: idea A lot of people say, oh, but gold companies

1441
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 10: are terrible in the long term, Well, nothing says that

1442
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 10: the benchmark is a long term for every security. Yeah, right,

1443
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 10: Moments of risk acceleration or risk flare ups are usually

1444
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 10: in the short term, right, And if a company can

1445
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 10: give you protection over the two to three years, which

1446
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 10: is what gold companies do from time to time, what's

1447
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:43,840
Speaker 10: wrong with that?

1448
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:44,519
Speaker 6: Right?

1449
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 10: So you should run a portfolio with a possible allocation

1450
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:55,640
Speaker 10: towards gold anyway. Right, What's really dangerous is to say, well,

1451
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 10: gold companies are terrible in long terms, so I'm not

1452
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 10: going to own any Well, how do you not own

1453
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:02,599
Speaker 10: any get that as two and twenty five names of which,

1454
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 10: by the way, gold companies can really generate most of

1455
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 10: the trends as they did last year. What is the

1456
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 10: point of that? What is the point of that? Then,

1457
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:16,719
Speaker 10: then you're not a full FLEDGH diversified fund. You're actually

1458
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 10: a fendy fund financial and an industrial fund.

1459
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 3: You started by pointing out we're in a sort of

1460
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 3: change from Bretton Woods, and I'm just thinking as you're talking,

1461
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:29,360
Speaker 3: Bretton Woods lasted from what nineteen forty four, nineteen five, Yeah,

1462
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:32,120
Speaker 3: all the way through until now. So yeah, that's a

1463
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 3: once in a lifetime thing, really, once in two lifetimes yeah, Clelogo,

1464
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 3: you said Chief Investment Officer and principle at first seven

1465
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:40,920
Speaker 3: year Investment Management and Sequence of Call. All thank you.

1466
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:43,760
Speaker 3: Equity and Listed ASSESSM and Wealth Jens are ready to

1467
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 3: appreciate you coming in tonight. Thank you very much.

1468
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 14: Indeed, The Money Show, Stephen Protest is brought to you

1469
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:55,799
Speaker 14: by abscess cib Discover the latest trends shaping digital assets

1470
01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 14: across Africa. Download the as Africa Digital Assets Insights tween

1471
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 14: twenty five.

1472
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 3: Well on the point of avoiding losses, good luck in

1473
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:07,200
Speaker 3: the US, the Dow Jones is down point five four percent,

1474
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:09,600
Speaker 3: the Nastik is down point three two and the S

1475
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 3: and P five hundred is down point three five Once again,

1476
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 3: all about losses in the tech sector and also tonight

1477
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 3: the financial sector. We'll have a lot more on it

1478
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 3: all for you. Tomorrow is Friday. We'll have Friday File

1479
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:25,840
Speaker 3: as well. Thanks for being with us on The Money Show.

1480
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 3: Good evening, it's eight o'clock