Speaker 1: Lunch with Pipper Hudson and now Consumer Talk featuring Wendy Nolar.
Speaker 2: It is time for Consumer Talk, and Wendy Nola is
Speaker 2: back with us this week here in studio, and we're
Speaker 2: going to be talking about a cluster of complaints about
Speaker 2: an air conditioning business which raises big questions around the
Speaker 2: risk of paying either in full or a substantial deposit
Speaker 2: upfront before you have received the promised goods or services.
Speaker 2: If you have had experience with this issue, if you'd
Speaker 2: like to ask a question or engage, you are welcome
Speaker 2: to call us on two one four four six five
Speaker 2: sixty seven, or you can send a voice note or
Speaker 2: WhatsApp text to seven two five six seven one five
Speaker 2: six seven. Great to have you back with us. We
Speaker 2: missed you last week.
Speaker 3: Thank you your pet too.
Speaker 2: This is a tough one because a lot of service
Speaker 2: providers do ask for substantial or sometimes even full payment upfront,
Speaker 2: and I know often as consumers we don't feel empowered
Speaker 2: to query that. But the case studies we're looking at today, Wendy,
Speaker 2: are a good example of how that situation can go wrong.
Speaker 3: Absolutely so with any home or office installation or construction,
Speaker 3: there is risk to both parties. Right, So for the contractor,
Speaker 3: there's the risk that the client won't pay, and shamefully
Speaker 3: many doesn't. Yeah, they find some little niggle and then
Speaker 3: just dodge the payment. And for the custom of the
Speaker 3: risk is of course that the supplier will take your
Speaker 3: money and give you nothing in return. Nothing that is
Speaker 3: but a long, exhausting and mostly fruitless run around to
Speaker 3: get your money back. And that's why contractors require deposits
Speaker 3: on acceptance of their quote, and quite understandably as well.
Speaker 3: To my mind though it shouldn't be more than a
Speaker 3: fifty percent deposits, so that each party has equal skin
Speaker 3: in the game, equal risk. And when I started in
Speaker 3: consumer journalism twenty seven years ago, that was it was.
Speaker 3: It was the norm, the norm, equal skin in the game.
Speaker 3: And that deposit that contractors are asking is going up
Speaker 3: and up and up. And I'm sure those who are
Speaker 3: listening driving along thing when I say cost so many
Speaker 3: customers don't pay whatever. That is the reality. But our
Speaker 3: the upshot is that is that the consumer has far
Speaker 3: more to lose if things go wrong than the contract
Speaker 3: the conduct they've got, you know, seventy percent is common
Speaker 3: eighty percent. I would say for me that would be
Speaker 3: a step two free except in extreme cases depending on
Speaker 3: what the woods being supplied are with risk. The contractor
Speaker 3: carries that kind of thing. But eighty percent you must
Speaker 3: know you are at quite great risk if something goes wrong.
Speaker 2: Okay, which then leads us to today's case study, or
Speaker 2: rather case studies plural with yes.
Speaker 3: So Cape based cool Tech Solutions asked for payment of
Speaker 3: eighty percent of the quote job as a deposit from
Speaker 3: its customers. But in the case of at least six people,
Speaker 3: and those are just the sex that we know of,
Speaker 3: the company, which is run by Jacques and Mandre Small,
Speaker 3: took their money the eighty percent deposits and then failed
Speaker 3: to install the air conditioning units, some in homes, two
Speaker 3: in business prisonerses, all in the Cape area. The date
Speaker 3: between August last year and May of this year. The
Speaker 3: areas that the company operated and ranged from Somerset West
Speaker 3: to Wellington, Paro, Mornsbury, Atlantis and Balville.
Speaker 2: Now did these clients ask for their money to be
Speaker 2: refunded after time had passed?
Speaker 3: Wendy, Yes, so that you know they they paid their deposit,
Speaker 3: waited for installation the dates came. There was various excuses.
Speaker 3: Bad weather, Bucky broke down, fell off a ladder, and
Speaker 3: then of course the client reaches the point where they say, okay,
Speaker 3: well I want my money back. Then they got letters
Speaker 3: saying or email saying semesters some form of communication saying
Speaker 3: we all pay you back within I think it was
Speaker 3: five to ten or ten to fifteen working days. I'll
Speaker 3: confirm that in a bit. And then just as that
Speaker 3: period was coming to close, that get in the case
Speaker 3: of three, they got letters saying we're going We've gone
Speaker 3: into liquidation. So sorry, sorry, you won't.
Speaker 2: Join the line of creditors. Yes, yeah, okay, now, Wendy.
Speaker 2: Obviously that does happen. It can happen. Businesses go into liquidation.
Speaker 2: Times are very tough out there, we know. But what
Speaker 2: is problematic here is the timeline around that going into
Speaker 2: liquidation letter versus new orders being taken.
Speaker 3: Okay, absolutely so. In the case of the sex which
Speaker 3: we'll call them, three of them got those we are
Speaker 3: liquidating notifications in March of this year. But in April
Speaker 3: and until fairly recently, mandre Smile was still placing adverts
Speaker 3: for Aircon specials on Facebook marketplace. In April, some weeks
Speaker 3: after those we are liquidating emails was sent to the
Speaker 3: three of the six who had been asking for a
Speaker 3: refund of their deposits. Call Tech Solutions quoted two more
Speaker 3: people for jobs, two more that we know of, and
Speaker 3: accepted payment of eighty percent deposits from them, and they
Speaker 3: didn't delivered the goods to them for the service. So
Speaker 3: that is problematic. And I think it's relevant to say
Speaker 3: that the losses of the six combined cases, so the
Speaker 3: total of their eighty percent deposit that they paid is
Speaker 3: around one hundred and forty six thousand grand, so.
Speaker 2: It's substantial subti Now, Wendy, those six haven't just come
Speaker 2: to us at consumer consumer talk. They've also taken steps
Speaker 2: to pursue criminal action, haven't they.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they've opened cases a fraud at various police stations.
Speaker 3: Our information is that those cases are our being coordinated
Speaker 3: by steps, because if you go that's the only way
Speaker 3: that you're really going to be able to build a case.
Speaker 3: If you've got one case one police station and another
Speaker 3: one and they and the operation signers, but the prosecutor,
Speaker 3: you know, the chances of prosecution are not great. But
Speaker 3: once you've got a pattern and several complainants all with
Speaker 3: the same moders operandi, then you know there is interest
Speaker 3: and the appetite to prosecute put up.
Speaker 2: Okay, so six of these complaints planets have open cases
Speaker 2: of fraud, and we'll take a look at the individual
Speaker 2: ins and arts of those cases one by one, but
Speaker 2: just to say so police action has been taken and
Speaker 2: in one case a consumer a small claims court actually
Speaker 2: small court get to in a moment, but the bottom
Speaker 2: line is that these these are the six that we're
Speaker 2: aware of who paid their eighty percent deposits. And Wendy
Speaker 2: also important to say, and I think, in fairness to
Speaker 2: the company, important to say that some of them said
Speaker 2: to us, I did so because i had previously dealt
Speaker 2: with them, and I'd had good experiences with their service
Speaker 2: delivery when they were trading under a previous name as
Speaker 2: Efficient Air Conditioning and Ventilation. We knew it was the
Speaker 2: same people, so we thought we'd get the same kind
Speaker 2: of service.
Speaker 3: Actually, and that makes it really, say me and quite
Speaker 3: odd because you know, I mean, we've all done that,
Speaker 3: had good experience from a company, and then use them
Speaker 3: again with great faith that you know you're going to
Speaker 3: get the same good service. For most of the six well, certainly. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Many of them had had this good experience, good, good
Speaker 3: value for money, good service, efficient service from Efficient air
Speaker 3: Conditioning and ventilation, which is and by the same couple
Speaker 3: one of their names, So yeah, and then had a
Speaker 3: completely opposite experience working time around. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's bring in one of the complaint's. Laura
Speaker 2: Ford is with us on the line and it was
Speaker 2: her husband David, who dealt with Shark about an aircon
Speaker 2: installation at their home at the end of last year. Laura,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for being willing to chat to
Speaker 2: us today and welcome to the show.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, nice to be with you.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Won't you just tell us briefly what happened
Speaker 2: starting with your your earlier dealings with this endeavor.
Speaker 4: Yes, I think the whole sort of crux of this
Speaker 4: or the continuing line of province, or is the the
Speaker 4: modus apparandi. So our initial contact with them was in
Speaker 4: March twenty twenty with an installation. We subsequently used them
Speaker 4: over the following years seven times and never had issues.
Speaker 4: Fantastic service, attention to detail, no complaints, so it was
Speaker 4: a complete no brainer. When we wanted to install two
Speaker 4: new units in December to make contact with them. They
Speaker 4: gave advice on what units pricing, and yeah, we paid
Speaker 4: the quote eighty percent deposit without a second thought. We
Speaker 4: truly never ever thought to just take five minutes and
Speaker 4: do a bit of social media research, which was a
Speaker 4: valuable lesson. It doesn't take long to just go and
Speaker 4: do a little bit of googling, a little bit of
Speaker 4: Google reviews, Facebook comments to get a quick picture. But
Speaker 4: we didn't. And then yes, and when he says, we
Speaker 4: started getting the excuses and kind of by us led
Speaker 4: March realize that things were going south. And then that's
Speaker 4: how I found the other a grief parties their complaints
Speaker 4: on Facebook and how we kind of got our little
Speaker 4: group together comparing notes and we basically all went through
Speaker 4: the same, the same process of receiving the letter of
Speaker 4: liquidation and yeah, initially refund I within twelve to with
Speaker 4: intention shifteen different they acted and materialized. Then it was
Speaker 4: after though were in liquidation. But you know liquidation, When
Speaker 4: you go into liquidation, you have to see trading. And then,
Speaker 4: as Wendy said, they have continued trading up until yeah,
Speaker 4: last month with the last issue. We know, so yeah,
Speaker 4: that's the story.
Speaker 2: Laura as amount of interest. Can you say you received
Speaker 2: a list of excuses why the work wasn't being done?
Speaker 2: What were some of those excuses? What were you told me?
Speaker 4: We say there were Okay, So installation was supposed to
Speaker 4: be twenty three December. We then were told that he
Speaker 4: had an accident with a grinder and into his hand
Speaker 4: and he did an operation. So that kind of limade
Speaker 4: us back off until end of January because we realized
Speaker 4: he would need to get better. Then they told us
Speaker 4: they had Bucky problems. Then the lad the lad and
Speaker 4: they were actually on their way to us when the
Speaker 4: Bucky broke down and I mean, you just can't actually
Speaker 4: make this stuff up. And then the sun broke his arm,
Speaker 4: and then we kind of realized, okay, know we want
Speaker 4: to refund.
Speaker 3: How much had you paid Laura as an eighty percent depositive?
Speaker 4: We paid sixty five.
Speaker 3: Okay, substantial amount. And yeah, you naturally suspect you've spoken
Speaker 3: to sex, but you suspect that there could be others
Speaker 3: If somebody, yeah, if somebody listening also paid a deposit
Speaker 3: to this operation and have nothing to show it, what
Speaker 3: would you advise them to do?
Speaker 4: Please get hold of us and will give you an
Speaker 4: email and address that we have for our group. But
Speaker 4: the more people we can find, the more powerful our
Speaker 4: case is.
Speaker 5: With that, we.
Speaker 4: Realized, I think the biggest thing here is we realize
Speaker 4: we're not going to feed that money again. That money
Speaker 4: is gone, but we need to stop this happening to
Speaker 4: other piece. If said don't get stopped, they will just
Speaker 4: continue to do this, okay, and I mean at a
Speaker 4: point where they can't keep doing this' that's wrong. It's falled.
Speaker 4: I mean one hundred and fifty thousand rand and there's
Speaker 4: actually nothing to show for that.
Speaker 3: Did you ever intempt to engage with one of the
Speaker 3: couple to say you were so great, we loved the service.
Speaker 4: What happened absolutely well, either they ignore your emails or
Speaker 4: your WhatsApps, But I mean my husband really genuinely tried
Speaker 4: to reach out and tell them that they were going
Speaker 4: down the wrong road. And yeah, come on, did you
Speaker 4: turn this around?
Speaker 3: Did you ever speak to them or was all your
Speaker 3: correspondence written about email or SMS or WhatsApp?
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, there was no actual conversation. Well, yeah was
Speaker 4: when I Jock was recommending what units to put in,
Speaker 4: But otherwise that is their one the one graft we
Speaker 4: have had with them in that entire period since we
Speaker 4: started using them, which they don't answer their phone, they
Speaker 4: don't apply to email, but we kind of overlooked at
Speaker 4: because their service was so good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just kind.
Speaker 2: Of a yeah, okay, So Laura, look, I wanted to
Speaker 2: say again, I think it's it's fantastic the solidarity you've
Speaker 2: all shown in grouping together to try and make sure
Speaker 2: that other people don't fall victim to this murdus oper Randy,
Speaker 2: won't you just remind us again if somebody is listening
Speaker 2: to this, going, hey, hashtag me too. It happened to us.
Speaker 2: What's the best way to connect with.
Speaker 4: You, mat The email is air con forward at gmail dot.
Speaker 2: Com, airconfraud at gmail dot com, and you can then
Speaker 2: be connected with the other people who have brought cases
Speaker 2: to SAPs and make sure that you are contained under
Speaker 2: the same sort of separate, same group as it were
Speaker 2: in how it's treated.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: Laura, I'm really sorry that this happened to you, but
Speaker 2: thank you for being willing to come on air and
Speaker 2: share the details with us so that others can avoid
Speaker 2: this happening to them. I think it is very valuable
Speaker 2: and we do appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thanks, thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Laura Ford speaking to us. There so one of the
Speaker 2: six cases that we looked at, Wendy, shall we I'll
Speaker 2: tell you what we well less briefly look at one
Speaker 2: or two of the others. I'm keeping an eye on
Speaker 2: the clock and knowing that news is looming. But there
Speaker 2: are five others, all with very similar stories. So I
Speaker 2: think it does reinforce what we've just heard from Laura.
Speaker 2: Do you want to tell us about what happened to Albert.
Speaker 3: I've spoken to all of them. In January Albert deforce
Speaker 3: of Paropaid cool Tech a deposit of almost twenty five
Speaker 3: thousand Rand to an install an air con unit in
Speaker 3: his home. Installation was supposed to happen on the eighth
Speaker 3: of feb didn't happen. Excuse has included the broken down
Speaker 3: bucky he or his wife being ill, that's that's jock smell,
Speaker 3: and then a long string of next weekend, next weekend.
Speaker 3: He asked for a full refund at the end of Feb,
Speaker 3: got a letter saying he'd get it in ten to
Speaker 3: fifteen working days. The same EMMO two days before that
Speaker 3: was up he received notice of intention to liquidate. Albert
Speaker 3: opened a case of fraud in March, and he was
Speaker 3: one of several This is interesting, one of several of
Speaker 3: the complainants of the six who received an email from
Speaker 3: Jacquies yesterday ordering him to immediately cease and desist from
Speaker 3: making false to Pametory and harrissing statements against him and
Speaker 3: his family yesterday.
Speaker 2: Obviously subsequent suit to your engage, and we have had
Speaker 2: engagement in which we will share.
Speaker 3: Obviously Laura got part of Laura and David who has
Speaker 3: beand got the same the same letters.
Speaker 2: So three of them all yesterday, yep. Okay, So three
Speaker 2: of the six have received that letter from his three
Speaker 2: other two or three will i'll confirminacy okay. So we'll
Speaker 2: pause it there for a second because we must just
Speaker 2: take an ad break and go to news. But we
Speaker 2: will be back after this with a couple of the
Speaker 2: case studies and obviously with the response from the company
Speaker 2: as is the writ and fair that Wendy did engage
Speaker 2: with them, and we'll tell you how that went. After
Speaker 2: the short break. Join the conversation. Join the conversation you're
Speaker 2: with Kate talk okay yo, as one of our listener says,
Speaker 2: the case studies are always fascinating, but let's what real world
Speaker 2: recourse do we have. I'm busy shopping for a kitchen,
Speaker 2: and the default I'm being asked for is sixty to
Speaker 2: seventy percent. That's all with reputable companies. What am I
Speaker 2: supposed to say?
Speaker 3: I would say, choose one that's a member of the
Speaker 3: Kitchen Specialist Association the KSA, because they will mediate any disputes.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's helpful, and yes, okay.
Speaker 3: And it's not to say that that there's you know
Speaker 3: that if they're not a member, they're not perfectly reputable.
Speaker 3: I don't want to create that impression. But I do
Speaker 3: know from dealing with these cases for so long that
Speaker 3: the KSA is very hands on if you have a dispute,
Speaker 3: and it's so nice to not be fighting this on
Speaker 3: your own.
Speaker 2: Absolutely okay, So that's great advice. We've also got some
Speaker 2: advice from Angelou which will share with you on how
Speaker 2: to make what to giving advice on what to do
Speaker 2: when contractors do ask for large deposits. That hopeful we'll
Speaker 2: share that with you, and we'll also circle back to
Speaker 2: the other case studies in this current batch plus the
Speaker 2: owner of the business's response.
Speaker 1: Cap Talk Consumer Talk WhatsApp on seven to five six
Speaker 1: seven one five six seven.
Speaker 2: Right, we are circling back to the case of the
Speaker 2: air conditioning clients who paid substantial deposits and then never
Speaker 2: received their air conditioning systems. And just before the break,
Speaker 2: we had a listener asking what should we do then
Speaker 2: when a contractor asks us for a large deposit, and
Speaker 2: Wendy gave case specific advice to that person on a
Speaker 2: kitchen contract. But I believe we've also received a voice
Speaker 2: note from our DIY contracting guy, Angelo, who'd like to
Speaker 2: share some advice around contractors and deposits. Thanks for sending
Speaker 2: this Angelo, Let's take a listen.
Speaker 3: Hi, Perba Angelo.
Speaker 6: Yeah, with regards to paying deposits, when we tackle projects,
Speaker 6: if a contractor is looking for a deposit, we require
Speaker 6: a the voice from the supplier, a tax invoice, as
Speaker 6: well as a transfer of ownership documentation stating that the material,
Speaker 6: once paid for, belongs to the client. There are other
Speaker 6: steps involved, but that's the way. That's the only way
Speaker 6: you can secure materials.
Speaker 7: I love that.
Speaker 3: I'm going to be using that, Thank you Angelo, going
Speaker 3: forward on all my platforms.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that. So just to recap, and we
Speaker 2: shared some of the case studies beforehand, I just want
Speaker 2: to go back to where we started this conversation. The
Speaker 2: company in question is currently operating as cool Tech Solutions,
Speaker 2: and these customers have paid up to eighty percent in
Speaker 2: deposits for various air conditioning jobs, both at home residences
Speaker 2: and in an industrial setting, many in the Sumrset West, Wellington, Malmsbury,
Speaker 2: Atlantis sort of area, as well as some cases in Belleville.
Speaker 2: And Wendy has engaged with the owner's Jacques Mandre smull
Speaker 2: and we'll get to that in just a moment. We
Speaker 2: heard from Laura, we heard about Albert's experience, Wendy, let's
Speaker 2: just quickly take a look at the others as well,
Speaker 2: because it does really help to build the picture of
Speaker 2: what's been happening. What are it to Domini.
Speaker 3: Dominic Hag of Somerset West paid cool Tech a deposit
Speaker 3: of forty two thousand round in January for an air
Speaker 3: con job excuses for London delivery the same broken down Bucky.
Speaker 3: Then came the promise to refund letter, then the liquidation email,
Speaker 3: then yesterday the cease and assist that was another one
Speaker 3: who got okay, and.
Speaker 2: That was Dominic and then we had Belinda in Belinda
Speaker 2: Dawson in Malmesbury. Now she was another one of those
Speaker 2: who said that she'd previously had a really positive experience
Speaker 2: with the Smiles when they were trading us Efficiently.
Speaker 3: Yes, the apparently very aptly named efficient Air. She was
Speaker 3: so on the base of that, she was a basis
Speaker 3: of that, she was happy to pay cool Tech thirteen
Speaker 3: and a half thousand round of the ninth of August
Speaker 3: last year. This is the oldest case of the six
Speaker 3: for an air con installation. Excuses included that he were
Speaker 3: not doing the installation, was that he'd fallen off. Jacques
Speaker 3: had fallen off a scaffolding and hurt his back. After
Speaker 3: she opened a case of fraud. This is interesting. Cool
Speaker 3: Tech made a positive two hundred rand into her account
Speaker 3: bank account without communicating with her about that, and as
Speaker 3: a result the case was closed. It's since been reopened.
Speaker 2: No, so she'd paid thirteen and a half thousand rounds,
Speaker 2: she was refunded two hundred rounds and the police closed
Speaker 2: the case on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because the thing was that there's no pattern here.
Speaker 3: And she was the first remember there's no pattern, and
Speaker 3: he's obviously going to pay you back. This is just
Speaker 3: the first and that was also the last. So she's
Speaker 3: currently owed around thirteen thousand and three three hundred five.
Speaker 2: And then we have Craig Bauer.
Speaker 3: So just to say she took the matter to the
Speaker 3: small claims court, that's couple fell to a ps so
Speaker 3: she has a default judgment and she's had no further refund.
Speaker 2: Okay, So there is actually a small claims called judgment
Speaker 2: saying she is owed.
Speaker 3: They didn't appierre okay.
Speaker 2: Then Craig Bauer, it was the industrial one in his.
Speaker 3: Yes, he got cool Tech into quote for an industrial
Speaker 3: extraction system at his billiard and dart club in Bellville.
Speaker 3: He again as well, they all have had previously had
Speaker 3: a good service experience with the Smulls, and so he
Speaker 3: paid his thirteen thousand rand deposit on the twelfth of May,
Speaker 3: and the case then followed the same pattern as the others.
Speaker 3: Like the others, after the quotation stage, which was handled
Speaker 3: by Jacques all communications with his wife Andre he told
Speaker 3: me they still accepted my deposit payment. After sending liquidation
Speaker 3: letters to the others who they owed deposit refunds okay.
Speaker 2: And then the final case that we are aware of
Speaker 2: is of Sculptretorius, who owns two factories in Atlantis.
Speaker 3: Yeah, two aluminium plants. He gave cool Tech the go
Speaker 3: ahead to install two air con units in one of
Speaker 3: them and paid a deposit of eighteen thousand Rand in
Speaker 3: April on the basis again of a good experience he'd
Speaker 3: had with efficient Air also operated by the Smulls. He
Speaker 3: got no installation. The blame was put on heavy ray
Speaker 3: and unavailability of technicians. When he got the liquidation notification
Speaker 3: in July, he asked for the liquidation attorney's details, but
Speaker 3: was not given that information. He also told me he
Speaker 3: tried to find out, well, where are these units. Let
Speaker 3: me come and collect them and I'll get somebody else
Speaker 3: to to install them. And you didn't get anywhere with that.
Speaker 3: So again, if you've taken Angelo's advice, that's a good
Speaker 3: one for everybody. Let me see the paide you so
Speaker 3: much upfront. I want to see your invoice from the
Speaker 3: supplier and the transfer of ownership so that I know
Speaker 3: you've actually bought the stuff. And that is why deposits
Speaker 3: are paid upfront, right, because contractors need to make upfront
Speaker 3: payments for goods.
Speaker 2: From the supply and outlet.
Speaker 3: That's the justification for it and understandable. But then you, likewise,
Speaker 3: we have a right to say, well.
Speaker 2: I want to see that you've bought this stuff with
Speaker 2: my money and I'm not just taking it running away. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: so Wendy, of course. Okay. So those are the six
Speaker 2: cases that we're aware of, and as always, the right
Speaker 2: thing you have to engage with the service provider who
Speaker 2: has been named in this case, and you did that,
Speaker 2: tell us what happened.
Speaker 3: I did so. I Laura gave me a number of
Speaker 3: cell phone numbers and she said this is the one
Speaker 3: that you're probably most likely to get them on. And
Speaker 3: so I phoned the number and I got a voice
Speaker 3: recording and I decided, Okay, I'm going to not waste
Speaker 3: time on this. I'm going to send an email. Later
Speaker 3: I discovered that I've been sent a WhatsApp from West
Speaker 3: Coast Air cons West Coast Air Conditioning and Refrigeration of
Speaker 3: Feldriff was registered in January of this year under the
Speaker 3: name of Mandre Smell. My WhatsApp message read READMA it
Speaker 3: hit open Lovely africaans or pro pramsque who can help
Speaker 3: West Coast Air cons So that's that's a company that
Speaker 3: is currently operating, and it sounds to me like the
Speaker 3: open for business of Otherwise, why would you follow up
Speaker 3: like that? Yes, it was an automated thing. I don't know,
Speaker 3: but that was my experience. Okay, but that's I rode
Speaker 3: back and said you are you in business? Still in business?
Speaker 3: And I didn't get a response.
Speaker 2: But you did then, Okay, what you did by email
Speaker 2: was taking all of these case studies and send everything
Speaker 2: we've shared. One became of that, Wendy.
Speaker 3: I also wanted an answer obviously on why were you
Speaker 3: sending out liquidation with emails saying justifying why you're not
Speaker 3: refunding deposits for people you didn't supply to and then
Speaker 3: continue to take new business and eighty percent deposits from
Speaker 3: other people. So he was very displeased at the inquiry.
Speaker 3: He vehemently resisted responding. Also invited on the show. No,
Speaker 3: he ordered us to see synthesist any broadcasting of the
Speaker 3: issue and any identification of him, his spouse or his businesses.
Speaker 3: We have done so in the public interest. It's also
Speaker 3: said it's harrissment and defamation. It's not defamation, and this
Speaker 3: is applies to people posting on social media as well.
Speaker 3: It's not defamation as long as it's true and in
Speaker 3: the public interest. And we feel, and so do our attorneys,
Speaker 3: that we've tacked both and we've given him the right
Speaker 3: of that. Our responsibility is professional journalists to give him
Speaker 3: the right of reply, which I've done many times, and
Speaker 3: I've had several exchanges, and so in fairness to him,
Speaker 3: just reflecting a little of what he told us, which
Speaker 3: is it's important to emphasize that there was never any
Speaker 3: intention to defraud anyone. We were not found guilty of
Speaker 3: any wrongdoing. The closure arose solely due to significant hardships
Speaker 3: and the difficult economic situation conditions which severely impacted the
Speaker 3: viability of the business. He talks of closure, but nobody's
Speaker 3: seen any evidence of liquidation proceedings, and no one's got
Speaker 3: any If you are a creditor and you and you
Speaker 3: certainly are a creditor, if you've paid someone money and
Speaker 3: they haven't delivered the goods you would need to get,
Speaker 3: you get an instruction to contact the liquidata's add your list,
Speaker 3: your name to the list of creditors, et cetera. And
Speaker 3: none of that has been supplied.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even when it has been directly asked for, as
Speaker 2: it was in the case of Skulk, who knew that
Speaker 2: that had to happen. Yes, and said okay, well, if
Speaker 2: you're liquidating, send me the liquidation attorney's details, and that
Speaker 2: was not forthcoming. Okay. So we have a default small
Speaker 2: claims court judgment. We have active fraud cases hopefully being
Speaker 2: investigated by the authorities, and then we have the claim
Speaker 2: of liquidation but no proof being provided by substitution to
Speaker 2: substantiate that claim. Okay, So that is what we have.
Speaker 2: And I want to remind you what Laura said that
Speaker 2: if you are listening to this going I can't believe it.
Speaker 2: That's happened to me too. Please do consider reaching out
Speaker 2: to those other complainants and joining joining the case that
Speaker 2: is being made here. You can send an email to
Speaker 2: air confraud at gmail dot com if you'd like to
Speaker 2: contact Laura. They will then advise you on how to
Speaker 2: go about getting a case number from the police, and
Speaker 2: you will be added to the WhatsApp group which they
Speaker 2: have formed with the other complainants by which they are
Speaker 2: communicating and helping each other to bring this case. So
Speaker 2: if you if you're driving and couldn't chat that, drop
Speaker 2: that down. You're welcome to mail me after the show,
Speaker 2: pipa h at Cape talk dot co dotz, and I
Speaker 2: can connect you with Laura and with that address, I
Speaker 2: believe we've got a voice note responding to this conversation.
Speaker 2: We can take a listen to that and then a
Speaker 2: couple of other WhatsApps.
Speaker 8: Hi, Papa, I'm listening to the radio and I'm listening
Speaker 8: to this and people are obviously being caught by these people.
Speaker 8: Why doesn't someone just pretend they want to quote, get
Speaker 8: the guys out and then.
Speaker 7: Get them get them arrested. Because this is terrible. I mean,
Speaker 7: we run a company and we take an eighty percent.
Speaker 8: Deposit, but we we let the clients pay this this
Speaker 8: the service providers direct should it be necessary?
Speaker 7: And this kind of thing gives people such a bad name.
Speaker 7: It's terrible. They should be arrased. It's disgusting.
Speaker 2: Well, the case has been late. Please how they choose
Speaker 2: to to to prossed?
Speaker 3: And yeah, thank you very much for that note, because
Speaker 3: that's another good piece of advice. Is there's nothing wrong
Speaker 3: with you saying, Look, I understand you need to make
Speaker 3: an outlay upfront, I'm not comfortable with paying you a
Speaker 3: whole eighty percent. I haven't you know whatever, and let
Speaker 3: me pay your supplier and then you collect the goods
Speaker 3: from them. I mean, there are ways around sort of
Speaker 3: limiting your risk limit.
Speaker 2: Your limitation of risk is really what we have.
Speaker 3: And if they refuse and you want to ask yourself why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no point, Yeah, I'm smiling. Vickers going a season?
Speaker 2: Does this letter? This guy has been watching too many
Speaker 2: legal TV series. He sounds like a crooked as the comment, well,
Speaker 2: look okay, as I said, and we we we really
Speaker 2: we have done from our side what we could to
Speaker 2: engage with him. We have offered him the opportunity to
Speaker 2: join the show today and state his case, which he
Speaker 2: declined to do. We did run it past our legal
Speaker 2: team to say, you know, are we doing the right
Speaker 2: thing in the way that we are proceeding and they
Speaker 2: were confident that there certainly was a case to be
Speaker 2: made for the argument that this is a public interest
Speaker 2: to prevent other people potentially falling victim. And we will
Speaker 2: keep you posted. I mean, when hopes Wendy with with
Speaker 2: sufficient traction and the number of complainants come forward, that
Speaker 2: there will be action from police and we will wonder
Speaker 2: to be able to give our listeners an update on
Speaker 2: what became of this.
Speaker 3: As you said earlier, the more cases, the bigger the
Speaker 3: apetheite that the authorities have to proceed.
Speaker 2: Okay, watch the space. We'll be back after this with
Speaker 2: open line.
Speaker 1: Consume and talk open line call one double four six
Speaker 1: five six seven.
Speaker 5: I came in late on the discussion on air conditioning.
Speaker 5: There is a society it's called Soraka SA or a CCA,
Speaker 5: I think, and I would always use a contractor that
Speaker 5: belongs to Soraka. They are a very strong organization and
Speaker 5: they they look after all contractors. I would dry that.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that, sirrakastans for South African Refrigeration and
Speaker 2: air Conditioning Contractors Association.
Speaker 3: I did not know about its existence.
Speaker 2: So thank you for that voice. Not much appreciate it,
Speaker 2: and thank you to my producer for looking up their
Speaker 2: their website already for US it's s A R A
Speaker 2: c c A dot co dotzed South African Refrigeration and
Speaker 2: air Conditioning Contractors Association SORAKA dot co dotzed A. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Faldi saying you know before paying a deposits find out
Speaker 2: this is great advice. Actually find out from the contractor
Speaker 2: where he will be purchasing his products from. Do they
Speaker 2: have an account with that supplier? Phone the supplier and
Speaker 2: ask for a reference on how he conducts his account
Speaker 2: and whether he has bought any products within the last
Speaker 2: three months. This would give you an indication if he
Speaker 2: has a good or bad relationship with suppliers. I can
Speaker 2: imagine that some people are going to try and hide
Speaker 2: behind poppy there Wendy and say, I'm not releasing that
Speaker 2: kind of information, but it's worth a try. I think
Speaker 2: it's a it's it's a fair point that you reach
Speaker 2: out and vet their business as you would vet other aspects.
Speaker 3: What particularly sad about about the six that we've spoken
Speaker 3: about is that they and I think even I might
Speaker 3: have done the same thing. You have already a previous relationship,
Speaker 3: you have a high level of trust, and you just
Speaker 3: assume it'll be the same same people are sort of
Speaker 3: like the company's taken over by somebody else, or it
Speaker 3: was a new it was a new name, but the
Speaker 3: same people running it. So yeah, very unfortunate.
Speaker 2: Okay, what else have we got here? Gareth saying, why
Speaker 2: do lawyers operate trust type accounts? That client pays in
Speaker 2: and the funds are only released when the work is
Speaker 2: done by the construction people. Well, you see, they need
Speaker 2: the money to purchase materials up front, Gareth, So kind
Speaker 2: of an Escrows situation as you would use with the
Speaker 2: property transaction isn't always going to work, but obviously that's
Speaker 2: the ideal world. Yes, everyone held up in the latter
Speaker 2: and only released when all parties are satisfied. As it were. Okay,
Speaker 2: one or two completely different topics. We've got a few minutes,
Speaker 2: lets so let's just squeeze in an open line. Well,
Speaker 2: one of them is actually a follow up. Ellis has
Speaker 2: written in to say please ask Wendy harshe's progressing with
Speaker 2: the city zeven Wacht SPA the canceling of service. I
Speaker 2: have heard nothing from the new owner and Infinity are
Speaker 2: giving me the runner und.
Speaker 3: I've had no follow up from them, and I am
Speaker 3: most confessed I haven't proactively done exactly so I will
Speaker 3: remedy that. And I take it though, and it's good news.
Speaker 3: They're very happy to tell you. So I take it
Speaker 3: that there's been no positive outcome, but it was sounding
Speaker 3: pretty helpful at the end of the last year. So
Speaker 3: I think we do have it.
Speaker 2: Yes, Just to give the context here for those who
Speaker 2: don't know the background, This was a couple of weeks
Speaker 2: ago the previous SPA person who operated the SPA at
Speaker 2: seven Vakt State, and it's not Zevenvaked themselves. It's a
Speaker 2: separate operate business. I want to be very clear on that.
Speaker 2: The previous operator went out of business or sold the
Speaker 2: business and left people with bookings in the lurch, and
Speaker 2: the people who were taking over that operation at the time,
Speaker 2: Zevenvacht reached out to us proactively and said we want
Speaker 2: to help, and they came back saying that the new
Speaker 2: operator had indicate they would try to help accommodate and
Speaker 2: we've heard nothing since.
Speaker 3: So thank you for that nudge. We will I will
Speaker 3: make a note to find out and come back with
Speaker 3: that information next week.
Speaker 2: There's also a thank you for Priscilla, who just wants
Speaker 2: to say thank you for your advice. I was being
Speaker 2: tormented by lawyers over a prescribed debt case, and she said,
Speaker 2: I told myself, you religiously listened to consumer talk. Use
Speaker 2: that knowledge to defend yourself. I followed all the instructions
Speaker 2: you gave, sent that to the lawyers and they backed down.
Speaker 2: That's when we're very happy week. Thank Priscilla, Thank you.
Speaker 2: I've got a question, Wendy, and I'm going to ask
Speaker 2: you to remind us because it's the subject we tackled
Speaker 2: a long time ago, and I can't remember what the
Speaker 2: solution was.
Speaker 3: I've got performance anxiety now.
Speaker 2: Techi Town is the new Netflorist, is what I'm going
Speaker 2: to say. And I'm going back a couple of years now.
Speaker 2: You'll remember I was not the only customer who was
Speaker 2: struggling with net Florist, not unsubscribing from multiple newsletters set
Speaker 2: for us that that issue has gone away. I'm having
Speaker 2: the exact same issue now with tech. I'm getting like
Speaker 2: six email newsletters a week.
Speaker 3: So you obviously were a customer once and had to
Speaker 3: supply your.
Speaker 2: A single item from was about four years ago online
Speaker 2: and I have unsubscribed every time I received those emails.
Speaker 2: I have mailed them. I have used the contact form
Speaker 2: on their.
Speaker 3: Website them on a public platform, which is not deformation
Speaker 3: because it's true to the public interest, I would say, and
Speaker 3: I can handle it on your bath. But the Information
Speaker 3: Regulator is very happy to hear these complaints and they
Speaker 3: tackle them, because there's no point in us having all
Speaker 3: these privacy rights. And we are legally protected, not only
Speaker 3: by the Puppy Act, by the good old Consumer Protection Act,
Speaker 3: which is fourteen years old, which basically says if you
Speaker 3: say stop, they they must stop. And they are committing
Speaker 3: an illegal act by continuing to plague you with unwanted marketing.
Speaker 3: So the fact that you did business with them ages
Speaker 3: ago and you had to get them an email addressed
Speaker 3: for life. No, you never gave them a cent for
Speaker 3: marketing for evermore. But even if you did, you can
Speaker 3: change your mand And you've said to them, no, stop no.
Speaker 3: How many times do you reckon?
Speaker 2: Well, I've tweeted once, I used a contact form on
Speaker 2: their website, once I sent an email, once I seed
Speaker 2: them in my email to the National Consumer Commission, which
Speaker 2: is how desperate I got last week. And I have
Speaker 2: also literally unsubscribed it. I counted it. I lost count
Speaker 2: after about twelve. I went back in my email box,
Speaker 2: and I have I have issued the unsubscribed instruction using
Speaker 2: the link at the bottom of those newsletters at least
Speaker 2: twelve times.
Speaker 3: The information Friend and just copy me in on that,
Speaker 3: because I'd like to see.
Speaker 2: The Information Regulator is where to go. Thank you very much,
Speaker 2: by the way. During my engagement with the National Consumer Commission,
Speaker 2: who were fantastic by the way, they got back to
Speaker 2: me straight away and said, we busy introducing a new
Speaker 2: online system where consumers can set up a profile and
Speaker 2: logger complaint online. It's just kind of in transition from
Speaker 2: one system to another right now, so please bear with us.
Speaker 2: At like five o'clock on a Friday afternoon, I've got
Speaker 2: a return call.
Speaker 3: Made me tell you they always issue recalls, not always,
Speaker 3: but I mean, I can't tell you how many Friday
Speaker 3: afternoons they issue the recall. I'm like, what is it like,
Speaker 3: poor before on a Friday afternoon. Obviously it's a very
Speaker 3: active period for them. Who knows.
Speaker 2: And I'm so impressed that they're still in the office
Speaker 2: and working hard at that time. So well done. Just
Speaker 2: I was so impressed with how responsive they were, even
Speaker 2: though it wasn't the solution I was looking for in
Speaker 2: this case.
Speaker 3: You've got a response and helpful and if.
Speaker 2: Only I'd had that response from the initial complaints, we
Speaker 2: wouldn't be having this conversation. So to be continued, because
Speaker 2: I think there is a lesson here to share with
Speaker 2: our listeners, Wendy, on what to do if this is
Speaker 2: happening to you from this business or any other business
Speaker 2: that refuses to honor your legal instruction to unsubscribe. So
Speaker 2: that's a topic for us to investigate for a future and.
Speaker 3: The regulator has been known to issue press releases out
Speaker 3: in companies that have refused on a grand scale and
Speaker 3: you know, to stop and want sending unwanted.
Speaker 2: And it worked in the case of for us if
Speaker 2: we go, I mean that was several years ago. There
Speaker 2: were a huge number of complaints absolutely test and it
Speaker 2: seems to have stopped happening. I have not been aware
Speaker 2: of that kind of complaint for Averent. I haven't had
Speaker 2: one for a very long time either.
Speaker 3: It was a rash. So it's over.
Speaker 2: That seems to be resolved here. Okay, Well, let's hope
Speaker 2: we can get this one resolved as well, and we'll
Speaker 2: let you know. Oh there's Jill saying I'm having exactly
Speaker 2: from town. Thank you for looking into it. Okay, Well,
Speaker 2: that's one definitely to add to the list to be
Speaker 2: investigated and we'll feedback. I think the bigger picture here, Wendy,
Speaker 2: is if anybody behaves in this way, it's what you
Speaker 2: do to make sure that they honor your legal instruction.
Speaker 3: Also, if I was listening and I wanted to do
Speaker 3: business with DICKI Twana, I would go into a store.
Speaker 3: I would certainly not chop online and give them that
Speaker 3: personal information because.
Speaker 2: You're for a marriage and it's quite hard to get divorced. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: Wendy Nola. Always great to have you with us. Thank
Speaker 2: you for all the work on behalf of our listeners,
Speaker 2: and we will chat again next week. With a reminder
Speaker 2: that if you want to log an issue on Wendy's platform,
Speaker 2: there is a contact form which she does look at.
Speaker 2: I promise it's on Wendy Nola dot co O dotz N.
Speaker 2: That's spelled k n O w l e R