Speaker 1: Lunch with Saint Johnson in for Pepper Hudson. We all
Speaker 1: have a voice, use yours call oh to one double
Speaker 1: four six oh five six seven. Join the conversation on
Speaker 1: you kay talk.
Speaker 2: We were chatting about vouchers and if you purchase vouchers
Speaker 2: and what your experience have been in purchasing vouchers. You
Speaker 2: can send us a What'sapp message Oh seven two five
Speaker 2: six seven one five six seven raises I prefer buying
Speaker 2: gift vouchers. I have so many gifts that I appreciate
Speaker 2: but don't quite use. I usually buy a standard amount.
Speaker 2: Also based on my relationship with the person. I hope
Speaker 2: I'm in your good books, Ray, because then I'll get
Speaker 2: a bigger voucher than the person you don't like, especially
Speaker 2: for baby and bridal showers. She tends to buy a voucher.
Speaker 2: So there we go. Your experiences with vouchres this afternoon
Speaker 2: will be part of our conversation when chat to Wendy Nola.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Consumer Talk and consumer journalist Wendy Nola's in
Speaker 2: studio with us this afternoon. We're going to be discussing
Speaker 2: vouchers and a listener spent almost nine thousand ran on
Speaker 2: a birthday adventure voucher and after several weather related cancelations,
Speaker 2: she was getting no response to her refunds or requests.
Speaker 2: And we're also going to be giving you an update
Speaker 2: on the issue that people raised with us word board
Speaker 2: vouchers for an independent spa at zeevan vachtdwein Estate, only
Speaker 2: to be told soon afterwards that the business had closed
Speaker 2: it down. Wendy, A very good afternoon to you and
Speaker 2: welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Thank you saying good to be here.
Speaker 2: It must be a very nice market selling vouchers because
Speaker 2: it's one way of expanding your business.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 3: It works for the businesses for sure. I mean it's
Speaker 3: it's lucrative because the retailers get their money upfront knowing
Speaker 3: that a sizeable percentage of people, for a variety of reasons,
Speaker 3: will not present them an exchange change for good or
Speaker 3: services within the valid validity period, which by law Consumer
Speaker 3: Protection Act has to be at least three years, which
Speaker 3: is quite a long time. But there are still, and
Speaker 3: I put my hand up for this, still people who
Speaker 3: for whatever reason just didn't don't get round to redeeming
Speaker 3: the voucher in that time, so the money is kept
Speaker 3: at no service provided. But yeah, even eleven years since
Speaker 3: the three year ability period became a law, that's when
Speaker 3: the CPA came into into effect. There are still a
Speaker 3: number of service providers who will issue a six month
Speaker 3: or twelve month voucher, but that's quite rare these days.
Speaker 3: But I get other there's still other dodgy practices going
Speaker 3: on with the issuing of of of vouchers which aren't legal.
Speaker 3: They inserted into the terms and conditions and say, but
Speaker 3: this is these are our terms and conditions. Well they're
Speaker 3: not valid if they're not compliant with the law of
Speaker 3: the land. So we just thought the various issues around vargers,
Speaker 3: let's mush them all together and chat about them today.
Speaker 2: So when I walk up to an organization or a
Speaker 2: business that's providing I would, let's say a spa and
Speaker 2: I want to buy somebody a back massage, voulture or something,
Speaker 2: they're not allowed to put a six months, twelve months
Speaker 2: or thirty six months, not years, the years, and that
Speaker 2: is it.
Speaker 3: So if you're buying a voucher for somebody, that's the
Speaker 3: first thing to check the validity date. If there isn't one,
Speaker 3: insist on one being put three years from the date
Speaker 3: that you stand there handing over your money.
Speaker 2: Let's start with the story we picked up on last week.
Speaker 2: Oriel contact us contacted us near to the end of
Speaker 2: last week's show just to say that in June she
Speaker 2: bought two hot Air balloon ride vouchers at four one
Speaker 2: each as a birthday treat for herself and a good friend.
Speaker 2: Tell us what happened.
Speaker 3: Then, okay, so, so Oriel's birthday was in early July.
Speaker 3: She made a booking for on that date and it
Speaker 3: had to be canceled. She made another. There were quite
Speaker 3: a few cancelations, and yes, taking bearing in mind that
Speaker 3: this is winter in Cape Town, we have rain, we
Speaker 3: have wind, and you know that's not ideal ballooning conditions,
Speaker 3: so obviously there are a lot of constellations, but they
Speaker 3: have after she just lost the appetite for this adventure.
Speaker 3: Her birthday was long gone, and then she asked for
Speaker 3: a refund. She was directed to the company and the
Speaker 3: company question is Ballooning Cape Town, which is based in Stinebosch.
Speaker 3: She was directed to fill in a refund form which
Speaker 3: mentions that an admin fee will apply, but doesn't specify
Speaker 3: how much. Interestingly, but the form did disclose how long
Speaker 3: she could expect to wait for a refund of her
Speaker 3: eight thousand, two hundred grand, which was up to twenty
Speaker 3: one working day, so essentially a month. Oriel submitted that
Speaker 3: form on the twenty ninth of July, so that month
Speaker 3: is long gone now. It was passed when she contacted
Speaker 3: us last week, and we have on the line. I
Speaker 3: hope to tell us a little bit more.
Speaker 2: Oriel, a very very good afternoon to you, and welcome
Speaker 2: to Cape Talk. Oriel on the line this afternoon to
Speaker 2: tell us exactly what happened with the refund of the
Speaker 2: gift voucher. Oriel, very good afternoon to you, and welcome
Speaker 2: to Cape Talk.
Speaker 4: Good afternoon, Thank you, Hi, Reil.
Speaker 3: Tell Wendy, did you get an acknowledgment from the company
Speaker 3: at all to your I think it was several emails
Speaker 3: you sent after that form to say what's happening now?
Speaker 4: Once I requested the refund, there was absolutely no response,
Speaker 4: no matter how I tried. Must to send ten emails
Speaker 4: and they just never got back to me. Their telephone
Speaker 4: numbers just rings. They never ever answered the phone since
Speaker 4: I inquired into our.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so there's a phone number on the company's website,
Speaker 3: which I've also experienced is not functioning. There's the sales
Speaker 3: email address, which appears to be the only way to
Speaker 3: get hold of the company. And then there's the name
Speaker 3: of a restaurant in set and bosh, we're not going
Speaker 3: to name them where I believe they hold breakfast after
Speaker 3: the successful flights. If that's the word, what did you you?
Speaker 3: You've tried that route and where did that lead you?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I contacted the restaurant and they gave me a
Speaker 4: gentleman's phone number, and he never ever answered his phone either.
Speaker 3: Okay. I also tried that and it just went straight
Speaker 3: to voicemail, one of those annoying messages that say you
Speaker 3: you may not leave a message, so there's no record
Speaker 3: that you ever phoned. Okay. So I sent a media
Speaker 3: query via that that sales email, asking essentially, does the
Speaker 3: company have any intention of refunding you minus that mystery
Speaker 3: admin fee? And the answer was kindly note that we can,
Speaker 3: unfortunately not disclose any information about any of our clients. Okay,
Speaker 3: the clients is you, and you came to me asking
Speaker 3: me to take up your case. But be that as
Speaker 3: it may, Ballooning cape Ton said, we they are, however,
Speaker 3: free to share with anyone they wish. The refund for
Speaker 3: the client you mentioned was successfully processed and she received
Speaker 3: an email from the payment gate where we use with
Speaker 3: that confirmation kind regards ballooning cap to on team. So no,
Speaker 3: still no names ever mentioned there.
Speaker 1: So when we.
Speaker 3: Last spoke, OIL, that was yesterday I think it was,
Speaker 3: and you said you'd received the payment notification and that
Speaker 3: was that great. After I sent my media query do
Speaker 3: you have that money in your account now?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: Okay, I just.
Speaker 4: Checked the bank account at five minutes to two and
Speaker 4: there's no payment.
Speaker 3: Okay. Well, hopefully it's just a delay between the banks
Speaker 3: and that's all it is. So we'll have to keep
Speaker 3: tabs on that one. But hope, I'm hoping that that's
Speaker 3: a successful refund. What is your learning out of this?
Speaker 4: Oil never ever? Again? No, I told you I'm an
Speaker 4: adrenaline junkie and I was so excited to be able
Speaker 4: to do this for my birthday. And you know, I
Speaker 4: felt comfortable in the beginning because they were sending, you know,
Speaker 4: good email. But every time I inquired about the telephone number,
Speaker 4: I mean, you'll notice on the emails, but I sent
Speaker 4: you numerous times I asked, why don't you answer your telephone?
Speaker 4: And they never ever responded. One day I even sent
Speaker 4: an email saying why don't you respond to my question
Speaker 4: about your telephone number? And I didn't get a reboku.
Speaker 3: Well all exam said, what you do get is your
Speaker 3: money and this will have to be to be continued
Speaker 3: for next week. But yeah, there is just to say
Speaker 3: that there is often a day or two delay between
Speaker 3: between I understand that, so hoping that's all it is.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much forgot joining us, I really do you,
Speaker 3: mrsed welcome.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: What are then the lookouts for anybody buying a voucher,
Speaker 2: whether it is just a spa voucher or a gift
Speaker 2: voucher for something, because I've got to watch that message. Yeah, Wendy,
Speaker 2: it says Hizin on the gift vouchure thing. I actually
Speaker 2: think experience vouchures are a great option, which is what
Speaker 2: we were talking about now, a ballooning experience. A lot
Speaker 2: of people have too much stuff, but an experience is
Speaker 2: something you will always remember. I didn't know what to
Speaker 2: buy my husband for his forty ninth birthday a few
Speaker 2: years ago, and decided to buy him an experienced flight
Speaker 2: in a gyrocopter. The person says, little did I know
Speaker 2: it would change his life forever. He literally got out
Speaker 2: of the gyrocopter and said, I want to become a
Speaker 2: hell copter pilot.
Speaker 3: So that's the one I was hoping it wasn't going
Speaker 3: to be an accident story. I was holding my breath there.
Speaker 3: That is a wonderful experience. So yes, things to look
Speaker 3: for would be And I've had cases like this where
Speaker 3: people have bought these experienced varchers so on the so,
Speaker 3: there are two ways to do a voucher. You can
Speaker 3: make it the supplier can make it out to a
Speaker 3: monetary amount or to the list the goods or service
Speaker 3: listed as a helicopter ride, a full body massage, whatever
Speaker 3: the case may be. What you must always check if
Speaker 3: you're buying vouchers is check their t's and sees that
Speaker 3: they are compliant with the law. So what they can't
Speaker 3: do is if the person, particularly if they were deemed
Speaker 3: towards the end of that three year validity period, they
Speaker 3: arrive and say right, I'll have that helicopter flipball, I'll
Speaker 3: have that massage, and then the spa says, well, actually
Speaker 3: the price has gone up since this arture was bought,
Speaker 3: So you're going to have to pay extra, absolutely not.
Speaker 3: They have to hold provided for that service that's listed
Speaker 3: on the vulture. They have to provide it in full
Speaker 3: for three years. It's the reason why a lot of
Speaker 3: these places have started, especially spas. They'll make art, which
Speaker 3: is not that not everyone who wants to know that
Speaker 3: put a crude you know, a monetary amount. You'd rather
Speaker 3: say facial whatever then. But but the spas are protecting
Speaker 3: themselves from losing art. Although I think all the vouchers
Speaker 3: that don't get redeemed more than makes up for this.
Speaker 3: But they they will put their full body massage one
Speaker 3: five hundred rand or whatever the case may be. Rather sorry, yeah,
Speaker 3: they'll put their amount rather than the service. So whatever
Speaker 3: your whatever, your one thousand, five hundred rand will buy
Speaker 3: your the person you've gifted it to three years down
Speaker 3: the line, well that's what they can buy. So that's
Speaker 3: that's one way that the industry got around having to
Speaker 3: take a knock when the voucher was held onto you
Speaker 3: know for two to and a half to you know,
Speaker 3: right up to the three year cutoff. So just check
Speaker 3: that and if the I mean there was there was
Speaker 3: one case I did a we spoke of so somebody
Speaker 3: who bought her husband, I don't know, an experience on
Speaker 3: a racetrack and the voucher said. Vouchers are valid for
Speaker 3: their experienced purchase for twelve months from the date of purchase,
Speaker 3: but in the cases of vouchure is not redeemed within
Speaker 3: twelve months, the valual or revert to the original paid value. Therefore,
Speaker 3: to book the original experience after the first twelve months,
Speaker 3: the price increase a price increase may need to be paid.
Speaker 3: I mean, I challenged them on that, and they're back down,
Speaker 3: because that's illegal. If you're providing an experience or on
Speaker 3: a racetrack, it's been paid for, it's valid for three years.
Speaker 3: If the person comes after year one or year two,
Speaker 3: you can't. They can't then be made to pay in
Speaker 3: So this is something that I'm starting to see creep
Speaker 3: in a lot and it's really not acceptable. And the
Speaker 3: other thing to look out for is, yes, the val
Speaker 3: just you cannot redeem the voucher for any promotional deal.
Speaker 3: So if they're advertising a special, there's nothing in the
Speaker 3: Act that precludes that you've bought you have a you
Speaker 3: have you have you have the right to present it
Speaker 3: when you when you choose to present it. And if
Speaker 3: there's a booking, there's a booking of there isn't there isn't.
Speaker 3: But yeah, this can't. This cannot be sitting in the
Speaker 3: terms and conditions, so look out for that as well.
Speaker 2: So there are I mean my eyes opening now to
Speaker 2: quite a number of things which which people out there
Speaker 2: are doing which is actually an illegal thing. For instance,
Speaker 2: if you buy something on a promo deal, there are
Speaker 2: a number of websites and a number of sites that
Speaker 2: offer you one day only on this particular thing and
Speaker 2: stuff like that, and that's those vouchers should then stay
Speaker 2: valid for three years.
Speaker 3: That's a tricky case which I which I remember group
Speaker 3: on in that cave Blaze the trail, and now we
Speaker 3: have many many forms of it. So there's a bit
Speaker 3: of a compromise deal. There's are specifically promotional deals you
Speaker 3: know by they in nature valid for a short period
Speaker 3: of time. So what should work then, and most of
Speaker 3: them do comply with with this. If you don't book
Speaker 3: that experience within three months, say you don't lose your spend,
Speaker 3: you lose your right to claim that particular special deal.
Speaker 3: But the company that issued the voucher to you, must
Speaker 3: give you credit for that vouture and enable you to
Speaker 3: redeem it on something else from for three years from
Speaker 3: the date that you purchased the voucher. And I think
Speaker 3: that's pretty fair.
Speaker 2: I think that's a fair deal. Chanting this oftenoon to
Speaker 2: Wendy Nolan, we're chatting about vultures. If you had any
Speaker 2: good experience or bad experiences with vouchures, we'd love to
Speaker 2: hear from you on too. One four four six five
Speaker 2: six seven on one seven two five six seven one
Speaker 2: five six seven. We'll also a little later give you
Speaker 2: an update on the issue of people who've bought vouchures
Speaker 2: for that independent spa. And I remember listening to this
Speaker 2: conversation which you had with and as the even Vajuaan estate,
Speaker 2: only to be told soon afterwards that the business had closed.
Speaker 1: Consumer talk with Wendy Dollar. You can join the conversation.
Speaker 2: Join the conversations or no. Seven two five six seven
Speaker 2: one five six seven. We've got to WhatsApp message here
Speaker 2: saying my experience paragliding voucher was canceled thirteen hours after
Speaker 2: purchase and still no response from my email and no
Speaker 2: phone number available and that comes from Monique. When these
Speaker 2: are the sort of key signs you can.
Speaker 3: First of all, yeah, way before you give your money,
Speaker 3: you're giving your money to someone in advance of you
Speaker 3: know you've you've particularly got three years at which to
Speaker 3: redeem it. So you need to do a bit of
Speaker 3: history on the company, I believe, so you don't waste
Speaker 3: your money. Look at recent reviews for example, especially these
Speaker 3: adventure ones. And if there's no phone number, that's a
Speaker 3: big problem because you've always hope for the best, plan
Speaker 3: for the worst if something goes wrong. How am I
Speaker 3: going to get hold of this company? Is there an
Speaker 3: a is there a contact phone number? Is there an
Speaker 3: email address? And so this is very unusual if you
Speaker 3: pay your money over and you've got no means of
Speaker 3: contacting the company. But please, I mean I don't I'm
Speaker 3: very happy to do a little bit of sleuthing as
Speaker 3: far as possible to try and find out. So send
Speaker 3: me an email, give me what you know with the
Speaker 3: dates of when you paid and how you were notified
Speaker 3: that the well, I'm gathering they're not saying the company
Speaker 3: is closed down, as in the case we're going to
Speaker 3: be talking about after the break, but that just that
Speaker 3: the I mean, that's extraordinar Were there any excuses? What
Speaker 3: was the thing just canceled? Sorry for you nice, have
Speaker 3: a nice day. I mean, there had to be more
Speaker 3: than that. So let me see what I could do.
Speaker 2: Another ONSAP message that has just come in. I regularly
Speaker 2: buy vouchures as a gift. At this SPA voucher is
Speaker 2: only valid for three months from the date A question
Speaker 2: is is it legal?
Speaker 4: One?
Speaker 3: Wow, definitely not. That's what I was alluding to earlier,
Speaker 3: and I said I don't get me of these. Now
Speaker 3: it's more the more subtle things of them introducing terms
Speaker 3: and conditions that aren't strictly legal. But there's very unusual
Speaker 3: for spas to be and be talking about spars without
Speaker 3: an R. To be clear, this beauty spars. It's very
Speaker 3: unusual for them, fourteen years on since the CPA came
Speaker 3: into effect, to be still sticking with the three months.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely not legal. Please do email me with the
Speaker 3: details there so that I can send them a nice
Speaker 3: email and go.
Speaker 2: Back to them and say Wendy says that it's valid
Speaker 2: for three years and not three months. Because you know,
Speaker 2: people need to know their rights, they need to be
Speaker 2: educated about you know certain things, and they need to
Speaker 2: know their rights and only when you when you purchase something,
Speaker 2: you need to make sure that there are none of
Speaker 2: those loopholes or pottholes that you you know, and you're
Speaker 2: giving your money. Are you paying upfront for a varger so.
Speaker 3: You need to failure? Yeah? So, so I would urge
Speaker 3: people who are doing the buying of the vouchers for
Speaker 3: their sakes, they don't want to waste their money and
Speaker 3: for the person that they're gifting it to to look
Speaker 3: very carefully at the validity date and also the terms
Speaker 3: of conditions. If there's anything about promos don't qualify or
Speaker 3: you'll pay more after year one or whatever the case
Speaker 3: may be, rather skip that service provider and move on
Speaker 3: to another who is going to comply. So the first
Speaker 3: rule of first, what's the word I will say? For
Speaker 3: us to benefit from these wonderful consumer protection laws that
Speaker 3: we have, we have to know about them right and
Speaker 3: then knowing about them, we can ask the right questions
Speaker 3: and then avoid those service providers who have chosen to
Speaker 3: be in business but not to honor the Consumer Protection Act.
Speaker 2: Just after the news, we will follow up on a
Speaker 2: story we had earlier this year about a SPA voucher
Speaker 2: which couldn't be redeemed because the SPA had gone out
Speaker 2: of business, and that will be coming up just after.
Speaker 2: He's chatting this afternoon to Wendy Nola, our consumer journalists
Speaker 2: about voutures and if you have any experiences, don't forget
Speaker 2: to send us a WHAT'SAP message to oh seven to
Speaker 2: five six seven one five six seven.
Speaker 1: Eight eight Talk Consumer Talk WhatsApp on seven to two
Speaker 1: five six seven one five six seven.
Speaker 2: Twenty five minutes to three o'clock. A very good afternoon
Speaker 2: to you. Welcome back to this show again. We are
Speaker 2: chatting to Wendy Noler this afternoon and we'll give all
Speaker 2: Wendy's details At the end of the show. We were
Speaker 2: chatting about vouchers and we switched over to another conversation
Speaker 2: that we had. Wendy, you have a follow up on
Speaker 2: a story that we had earlier this year about a
Speaker 2: SPA voucher which couldn't be redeemed because the SPA had
Speaker 2: actually gone out of business. Give us the background to
Speaker 2: that show.
Speaker 3: It was the show we hit did on Wednesday, the
Speaker 3: twenty third of July, and we reported that several people
Speaker 3: had paid the spa at the Evenwacht state considerable sums
Speaker 3: of money three nine hundred rand in one case for
Speaker 3: full day's spoils was Chap's wife, you know, treatment, gift
Speaker 3: arches and the rest, and within days or weeks they
Speaker 3: were told that the services had been suspended. That was
Speaker 3: the wording they got in a letter. So the Evanvach
Speaker 3: director Denise Johnson told us that the Baquena Spar, which
Speaker 3: was rebranded more recently as Infinity, had leased the premises
Speaker 3: on the estate since twenty sixteen, and while the estate
Speaker 3: was aware that they were experiencing difficulties because they were
Speaker 3: behind in their rental payments, they had undertaken to payback
Speaker 3: the areas and business was expected to pick up after
Speaker 3: the rebranding. Then came the surprise closure. Denise told us
Speaker 3: that the estate only became aware of this on the
Speaker 3: last day of that spase trading about the next chapter.
Speaker 3: What now for the people that were holding these varchers,
Speaker 3: Denise told us in that show twenty third of July,
Speaker 3: I've had a very positive meeting with the potential new
Speaker 3: SPA operator. If they enter into an agreement with us
Speaker 3: between the two companies, we will attempt to honor all
Speaker 3: bookings that have not been refunded. As I have no
Speaker 3: access to the database or list of guests, we are
Speaker 3: keeping a record of all inquiries we receive, so there
Speaker 3: was a glimmer of hope and we handed over the
Speaker 3: details of the people who had contacted us. But having
Speaker 3: got word back it was last week from one voucher
Speaker 3: holder that there had been no further developments. He'd had
Speaker 3: no contact. I went back to Denise to ask for
Speaker 3: a progress report. She said, I'm still in negotiation with
Speaker 3: the potential SPA operator. They need to source funding and
Speaker 3: investors and be sure that the business model will work well.
Speaker 3: So there's nothing that we can do to expedite the process.
Speaker 3: She said, while they have agreed in principle to rent
Speaker 3: the premises with the purposes of running a SPA, I
Speaker 3: hope to have a final confirmation by next week, so
Speaker 3: that should be by the end of this week. She says.
Speaker 3: We've discussed the process of assisting guests who booked and
Speaker 3: paid on the basis that the new operator will offer
Speaker 3: either a reduced packaged package half or for their SPA,
Speaker 3: depending on the booking, and we will subsidize fifty percent
Speaker 3: of the costs. This is entirely a gesture of goodwill.
Speaker 3: I do not want to make promises to any guests,
Speaker 3: Denise said, until we are sure that we can carry
Speaker 3: the financial costs of this offer. So that's fair enough.
Speaker 3: She added that the state that Zevinvacht had been the
Speaker 3: subject of some distressing social media posts and emails insinuating
Speaker 3: that we have stolen their money. There is no legal
Speaker 3: or financial obligation on Zevinvacht or the new spa operator
Speaker 3: to offer any services to these guests. Their recourse is
Speaker 3: one hundred percent against Infinity Day Spa and Wellness, and
Speaker 3: they are welcome to institute any form of legal proceedings
Speaker 3: against them at their discretion. Denise has shared with me
Speaker 3: a contact name and email address, which I will share
Speaker 3: with anyone who asks me for it or fair So.
Speaker 2: There is no obligation on Zevenvach itself because this practically
Speaker 2: was a tenant of theirs and wasn't pretty much, yes,
Speaker 2: contracted into any part of their business.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think it's fairly common with you.
Speaker 2: Know, spas and hotels to do that.
Speaker 3: Exactly. They have it's an outside operator and they have
Speaker 3: an agreement between them. But you know what happened there
Speaker 3: and then continue to solve archers up until the last
Speaker 3: week of you know, before they went before they said sorry,
Speaker 3: we've stopped operating. Is no reflection on or the responsibility
Speaker 3: of the estate in this case. But you know, you
Speaker 3: can understand from consumer's point of view, they they've driving
Speaker 3: into the estate. They're associating the experience with the estate.
Speaker 3: Although the SPA itself has got different branding and it's
Speaker 3: a completely independent company. Some people, you know, they can't
Speaker 3: get hold of the SPA, but so they will target
Speaker 3: in this case that the estates eten say you stole money.
Speaker 3: So just to make it clear that wasn't the case
Speaker 3: and all is not lost completely the stage, it's just
Speaker 3: the feedback the update rather that we promised and so
Speaker 3: to be continued. We'll keep on monitoring this.
Speaker 2: There there's a nice gesture to say, listen, we'll cover
Speaker 2: fifty percent of the cost and you know we because
Speaker 2: obviously you need to backtrack now again from reputational damage
Speaker 2: to the estate, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's that's that's what they're obviously seeking to do.
Speaker 3: But while making it very clear that it's it's you
Speaker 3: know it wasn't their wrongdoing, and they have no obligation
Speaker 3: to do it, but they obviously feel bad that people
Speaker 3: had that experience and invested and trying to do what
Speaker 3: they can to make it, you know, to make it
Speaker 3: right with the people that were that were harmed.
Speaker 2: A few what's up messages that have come in, you know,
Speaker 2: one says that the longer it takes for the consumer
Speaker 2: to redeem the voucher, the company gains interest from the
Speaker 2: money paid and it works for them, so they can't
Speaker 2: say the cost of the service is increased or they'll
Speaker 2: lose out if you come over longer period.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what kind of interest less It's not it's
Speaker 3: going to be a big shortfall there. But essentially within
Speaker 3: their power then to say, well, we'll issue the voucher
Speaker 3: and the value to the value of three nine hundred
Speaker 3: or whatever the case may be, and you know, if
Speaker 3: you don't redeem it in the first six months, well
Speaker 3: then you know when you come with your voucher to
Speaker 3: the value of three nine hundred and is going to
Speaker 3: get you less. And that's why a lot of them
Speaker 3: have opted for that. But the point is, if they're
Speaker 3: still just going with the practice of listing the experience
Speaker 3: as what the voucher exchange will be, and you arrive
Speaker 3: for it and you know you're two times nine months.
Speaker 3: They can't then say, oh no, that facial is now
Speaker 3: going has gone up by fifty percent in the last
Speaker 3: three years, so we need a payin from you. That
Speaker 3: is what a really strong message I want to get
Speaker 3: across is they are not at liberty legally entitled to
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 2: Another one I mentioned, and this is a lovely one,
Speaker 2: High Wendy, what are the rules around this? The listener
Speaker 2: wants to know and your WhatsApps on seven two five
Speaker 2: six seven one five six seven. I bought my husband
Speaker 2: a voucher for cooking lessons with a chef four thousand
Speaker 2: rand for eight lessons where the chef would come to
Speaker 2: our house and cook with us. It's one way of
Speaker 2: getting your husband yes willing. A few weeks later, when
Speaker 2: I gave my husband his gift, he was unimpressed with
Speaker 2: my KIF and I tried to get a refund. The
Speaker 2: chef refused and there were no terms and conditions on
Speaker 2: on this particular gift. And is it legal?
Speaker 3: So yeah, absolutely, The Consumer Protection Act doesn't title the
Speaker 3: supplier to refuse to give a cash refund. It's got
Speaker 3: to be redeemed for services because that was the purpose
Speaker 3: for which it was bought. So unfortunately she should just
Speaker 3: have the little found we say thank you. I'll take
Speaker 3: those lessons.
Speaker 2: And this brings me to the question whether vouchures are transferable,
Speaker 2: because I think a number of varcheress will indicate and
Speaker 2: stipulate quite out of categorically this is this vouture is
Speaker 2: not transferable.
Speaker 3: I need to call up the Act, but I think
Speaker 3: they might be within their arts to do that. Let me,
Speaker 3: if we're reading out other WhatsApps, I'll have a quick look.
Speaker 3: I did look in the break, but we were I
Speaker 3: didn't quite get there.
Speaker 2: Another what's a message saying, Hi, Wendy. Do vouchers you
Speaker 2: get from say, Cape Union, mart or Willies? Do they
Speaker 2: actually expire from Gareth? And obviously Gareth within three years
Speaker 2: if you haven't used it, that does.
Speaker 3: Exp I think he's referring to loyalty vouchers and those
Speaker 3: are exempt because the Act refers to prepaid vouchers, card
Speaker 3: or whatever other mechanism, though the keyword is prepaid. So
Speaker 3: if you're being awarded vouchers and thank you so much
Speaker 3: for this question for prompting me to give this information.
Speaker 3: If if it's you haven't paid for them, it's just
Speaker 3: to thank you and asked to have a loyalty present,
Speaker 3: then they can make it valid for whatever period they
Speaker 3: feel as appropriate. So this section doesn't apply because it's
Speaker 3: not prepaid.
Speaker 2: Again for that question, Gareth, there's your answer. Your voucher
Speaker 2: from Cape Union Mat or Willies for instance, he's not prepaid.
Speaker 3: He didn't say it was a loyalty thing, so I'm
Speaker 3: assuming that's what he meant. If it was paid for voucher.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine Willie's not not comply, or Cape Union
Speaker 3: Mark for that matter. If it was paid for as
Speaker 3: a gift or then absolutely you it must be valid
Speaker 3: for three years. Incidentally, not everybody buys vouchers for as gifts.
Speaker 3: I've had feedback from people who say that they buy
Speaker 3: vouchers as a way of saving, Like I don't know,
Speaker 3: so like instead of just putting into savings, I can't
Speaker 3: it might go to thing else. I'll buy themselves a
Speaker 3: voucher from a particular retailer and and no so and
Speaker 3: then when they need it, they when they need to
Speaker 3: buy whatever school clothes or whatever, then they will pull
Speaker 3: out the voucher and go and do it. But I
Speaker 3: would say labor is a good way to do that.
Speaker 3: You can you can buy something, put something on labor
Speaker 3: that you don't need now, for example, for summer. You
Speaker 3: can lay by it now, you know, because certainly look,
Speaker 3: look are we dressed nawsa and you could buy something
Speaker 3: some clothing for summer. By the time you've paid it
Speaker 3: off with no interest over three months, you know, and
Speaker 3: not needing to wear you don't need this gratification and
Speaker 3: then you can paid off in you But it.
Speaker 2: Was summer yesterday, I know this is this is cape
Speaker 2: down in September. It got to be diving for my
Speaker 2: long Johns and everything this morning. Another question that's coming Wendy,
Speaker 2: and we're talking to Wendy Nod. If you have any
Speaker 2: experiences in terms of vouchers, we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2: I know seven two five six seven one five six
Speaker 2: seven or a know to one for six five six seven.
Speaker 2: This one says I had a very bad experience with
Speaker 2: the high end hotel regarding a high tea voucher bought
Speaker 2: during COVID. The time period, Yeah, obviously is very important.
Speaker 2: So post COVID when trying to redeem, to redeem the voucher,
Speaker 2: they stopped the high t and I struggled to get
Speaker 2: them to honor that particular vutuer. I personally went through
Speaker 2: because no one answered the emails and no one returned
Speaker 2: the phone calls as promised. And finally they consented, but
Speaker 2: I said I would have to pay. They said I
Speaker 2: would have to pay extra as the price had gone
Speaker 2: up since issuing that vouchure.
Speaker 3: Well, she's left at the timing there, so yeah, bearing
Speaker 3: in mind that there was only a three year validity
Speaker 3: So say she bought the voucher and many of us
Speaker 3: were encouraged to do this to keep restaurants and the
Speaker 3: lack afloat because obviously no yes, et cetera. So the
Speaker 3: validity period would have been three years. Say it was
Speaker 3: issued in Winny things really bad, say June of twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: it would have expired in June of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I would imagine. She doesn't say, but if
Speaker 3: the vow she was still within that three year validity
Speaker 3: period and she paid for a high tea, then they
Speaker 3: couldn't ask her to pay in if it's now past
Speaker 3: that three year and she wasn't able because they didn't
Speaker 3: have the high tea within the three year period. Then
Speaker 3: I would say to be fair and given that it
Speaker 3: was COVID and everything else that might be applicable to
Speaker 3: pay us to have a small pay in to associate
Speaker 3: around them. So I don't I don't have the timing.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I don't. I don't think that one can expect
Speaker 2: an organization to honor a voucher. And I did infinite them.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, you don't have legally it's
Speaker 2: three years done. So make absolutely sure when you buy
Speaker 2: that voucher that the expiry date is three years from
Speaker 2: the time that you've actually bought it. And we chatting
Speaker 2: to Wendy Nola this offten were chatting about voutures. If
Speaker 2: you have any bad experiences a good experiences about buying
Speaker 2: a voucher, we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Talk WhatsApp seven two five six seven one five six seven.
Speaker 2: Coming up ten minutes to three o'clock. We have Wendy
Speaker 2: Nola in studio and we chatting about gift vouchers. There
Speaker 2: are a number of good to know things when it
Speaker 2: comes to gift vouchers. And the purchasing of gift vouchers.
Speaker 2: If you missed this earlier part of the conversation, don't
Speaker 2: forget it will be on primemedia plus dot com. When
Speaker 2: do we chatting about the transferability of vouchers and you.
Speaker 3: Said you'd seen on some of these vouchers not transferable, Well,
Speaker 3: this is what the Act said. It's Section sixty three
Speaker 3: of the Consumer Protection Act, available online for those who
Speaker 3: want to check it out for themselves. So it starts
Speaker 3: off by saying what we said earlier. This it only
Speaker 3: applies to transactions in which a supplier accepts consideration from
Speaker 3: a person in exchange. It's paid only paid for, not
Speaker 3: a loyalty voucher, and the supplier expressly or implicitly agrees
Speaker 3: to provide goods or services to any any person who
Speaker 3: subsequently presents that certificate. So it's definitely transferable, and that
Speaker 3: shouldn't be used as a means of keeping your money
Speaker 3: and not supplying anything. So, for example, the woman who
Speaker 3: bought the chef lessons for her husband, she's definitely at
Speaker 3: liberty to say, okay, well I will I will he
Speaker 3: has the voucher I presented, and I will take the
Speaker 3: lessons from you, thank you very much, or give it
Speaker 3: to her sister, whoever is interested, the person who's who
Speaker 3: has possession of the voucher, and obviously they can do
Speaker 3: the checks to see that it wasn't you know, presented before.
Speaker 3: Is then entitled. Because I'm talking about digital ones, you
Speaker 3: can just you know, forward them. They would they would
Speaker 3: obviously check that it hadn't been redeemed before, and yeah,
Speaker 3: so they are transferable.
Speaker 2: There we go. Vouchures are transferable, so those cooking lessons
Speaker 2: can go to somebody who appreciate well, appreciate it. And
Speaker 2: your husband is definitely not going to be cooking. That's
Speaker 2: a no note going to voice that in from Trisha's
Speaker 2: Afternoon and I seven two five six seven.
Speaker 5: My husband was given a book voucher to the value
Speaker 5: of four hundred rand for her birth his birthday, and
Speaker 5: when you went to redeem it, there was no use
Speaker 5: it by day to honor it or anything like that.
Speaker 5: Exclusive books said that it had expired like maybe two
Speaker 5: or three weeks beforehand, and they refuse to acknowledge it.
Speaker 5: And he tried to challenge them and said, but don't
Speaker 5: these vouchers not have a use by date? And the
Speaker 5: lady said no, I'm just wondering if it doesn't state
Speaker 5: on the actual voucher got to be used by a
Speaker 5: certain date, does it have we got anything to go
Speaker 5: back to them for and say you've got to honor this.
Speaker 5: I'm just curious to know this.
Speaker 2: Thanks Trish Wendy Thresh.
Speaker 3: That's very interesting one, because you know they should all
Speaker 3: have expiring dates on them, the only way you would.
Speaker 3: I mean, they obviously were able to ascertain when the
Speaker 3: voucher was purchased, right, and that's why they saying, well
Speaker 3: it expired your three years was up two or three
Speaker 3: weeks before. But how are you, as the recipient of
Speaker 3: the gift voucher to know that three years is a
Speaker 3: long time to remember? So I would like to investigate this,
Speaker 3: and I'd certainly like to see a copy of the
Speaker 3: voucher or card or whatever he was given as a
Speaker 3: gift trash if you could email it to me and
Speaker 3: I will take it from there. But yet, there's short
Speaker 3: answer is yes, the validity date most definitely needs to
Speaker 3: be stated on the card. It can't be guesswork on
Speaker 3: the part of the recipient.
Speaker 2: The good to those out of this conversation when the
Speaker 2: in terms of vultures, there's a couple of things that
Speaker 2: we have highlighted in terms of what people should definitely
Speaker 2: look for in this case with the with Trish is
Speaker 2: what is the when did you purchase the voucher? Did
Speaker 2: you actually hold onto his seat? Because sometimes you know,
Speaker 2: you give the person the varcher, but you hold onto
Speaker 2: the re seat and the expiry date. So what are
Speaker 2: those good to those in terms of a vucher.
Speaker 3: When if you're doing the buying, check that it's not
Speaker 3: doesn't state it's not transferable. Check that it doesn't state
Speaker 3: that goods and services on promotion are not included. There's
Speaker 3: no exclusion for that in the act. And check that
Speaker 3: they don't have some sneaky little clause that says if
Speaker 3: you deem after year one or after your two, you
Speaker 3: will pay significantly more for that service that's provided, be
Speaker 3: it a adrenaline junkie type adventure thing or relaxing day
Speaker 3: at the spa, whatever the case may be. So check
Speaker 3: that's not there. I mean, just about every bit of
Speaker 3: advice or every topic we discussed we discuss on this
Speaker 3: shows and ends with please read the small print. So
Speaker 3: and still people don't but our persist anyway, and no
Speaker 3: hope that maybe one or two are persuaded. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that's that's the basic thing. The abilidity data
Speaker 3: is the thing to check first of all, and if
Speaker 3: there isn't one, to ensure that they put one on there.
Speaker 3: That state's expiry dates three years from the.
Speaker 2: Go and go online and check the reviews of the company,
Speaker 2: so that you know this company has been around for
Speaker 2: so many years. They look for recent reviews, recent reviews,
Speaker 2: look for other people's experiences with this particular company, and
Speaker 2: that will that will obviously tell you whether or not
Speaker 2: you will enjoy the experience or whether or not you
Speaker 2: should be purchasing a voucher, because you know, we've seen
Speaker 2: companies that have been in existence for thirty forty years
Speaker 2: go go under these days.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the case of the SPA, I mean, it's
Speaker 3: been in operation since twenty sixteen, I think it was,
Speaker 3: it's nearly ten years, so there was trust and all
Speaker 3: the rest. So these people didn't see it coming, the
Speaker 3: people who bought the vouchers right at the end there.
Speaker 2: I have a voucher from a prominent photograph shop in
Speaker 2: the gardens which my kids gave me for a birthday
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, so we don't know exactly which
Speaker 2: month in twenty twenty three. I thought I lost it,
Speaker 2: but I found it when we moved this year. As
Speaker 2: for the CPA, is that still valid?
Speaker 3: Definitely sometime in twenty twenty six. That expires six Definitely
Speaker 3: the whole of twenty twenty five and up into the
Speaker 3: month it was it was purchased in twenty twenty three. Yeah,
Speaker 3: very much. Still better go go and go shopping, go shopping.
Speaker 2: Yes, we got an email from Rosie asking I misplaced
Speaker 2: a gift card from Saubey, which is quite nice. And
Speaker 2: it expired in February already. And once again we don't
Speaker 2: know whether it was three years or whether there was
Speaker 2: a limited.
Speaker 3: Twenty Oh, they'll be There'll be three years.
Speaker 2: It will be three years. Yeah. Is there anything that
Speaker 2: one can do regarding this or is just your own
Speaker 2: misfortune and you've lost out on the deal?
Speaker 3: Well you could you can plead for I mean, if
Speaker 3: it was a few days, I would say you might
Speaker 3: have a chance, But you know, February I would say, no,
Speaker 3: you had the full three years. And I mean, I've
Speaker 3: done this myself. It's an awful feeling. I feel worse
Speaker 3: for the person that paid the money for my pedicure.
Speaker 3: And I mean, I did try several times to make
Speaker 3: a booking, but it was always high season, all the
Speaker 3: tourists here, and I just couldn't do it. And I
Speaker 3: feel terrible, But I'm not going to go to the
Speaker 3: spar and say, well, it's your fault. And you know,
Speaker 3: I could have made middle of winter bookings and I
Speaker 3: just just slipped in my mind. So unfortunately, and this
Speaker 3: is the thing. The companies that issue gift vouchers do
Speaker 3: it because it's good business for them, because they were
Speaker 3: There is a percentage, and I don't know what the
Speaker 3: average is, but I would say it's not too small.
Speaker 3: And for whatever reason, people lose them, people forget people, whatever,
Speaker 3: They just don't redeem them. They move and they've got
Speaker 3: that money for nothing. So you know, it's a good
Speaker 3: idea to buy their voucher if it's you know, if
Speaker 3: it gets redeemed. If it isn't, it's just always of
Speaker 3: your money. But you've got no control over that as
Speaker 3: the buyer. You just got to hope that the person
Speaker 3: you give to read.
Speaker 2: Read the fine print. Read the fine print, and in
Speaker 2: capital letters, read the fine print. My gapsolutely show Wendy
Speaker 2: where can people get hold of you?
Speaker 3: Okay, so the best way for me is to go
Speaker 3: into my website Weendy Nola dot COSA. Because on there,
Speaker 3: if you click on consumer complaint, you will be directed
Speaker 3: to a form which I've tried very hard to populate
Speaker 3: in a way that prompts you to give me all
Speaker 3: the information that I would need to take up your
Speaker 3: case without having to send you an email back and
Speaker 3: ask for basic information like what was the account number?
Speaker 3: When did this happen? You know whatever. So so that's
Speaker 3: the best way. Otherwise, it's consumer at Nola kno W
Speaker 3: l e R dot co dot c DA.
Speaker 2: Wennie Nola, thank you so much for your time this
Speaker 2: afternoon and we were chatting about vouchers. Remember this conversation
Speaker 2: will be up on the website at Primedia plus dot com.