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Speaker 1: Seven.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the best of The Money Show.

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Speaker 1: The Money Show. Welcome to the best Bits of the

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Speaker 1: Money Show, a digestive some of the best interviews, comments,

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Speaker 1: thoughts and insights from what happened on air this week.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like to hear more, please go to our

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Speaker 1: website or your podcast app and search for The Money Show.

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Speaker 1: As always a good idea to sort of share it

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Speaker 1: with someone you think might benefit from it. There might

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Speaker 1: be someone grappling with the decision or something and this

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Speaker 1: might just help them. Well. We start, of course with

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Speaker 1: the stories that matter this week, and our Reserve Bank

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Speaker 1: keeping the reaper rate unchanged at six point seventy five percent,

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Speaker 1: leaving the prime lending rate at ten and a quarter percent,

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Speaker 1: And who can blame them when you consider the position

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Speaker 1: that we find ourselves in and what's happening with oil prices.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court of Appeal dismissing an appeal by ESKIM

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Speaker 1: against another court ruling, and this essentially means that ESCAM

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Speaker 1: now has disclosed its contracts for the purchasing and transporting

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Speaker 1: of coal and diesel. The court found and it is

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Speaker 1: in fact in the public interest to disclose the contracts

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Speaker 1: They also said that they were rejecting Eskam's argument that

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Speaker 1: the contracts are commercially sensitive. It really is going to

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Speaker 1: be quite interesting to see how that plays out and

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Speaker 1: what comes out of those contracts. And the latest in Iran,

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Speaker 1: a diplomatic source in Tehran describing the US's fifteen point

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Speaker 1: plan as extremely maximalist and unreasonable. Their foreign minister has

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Speaker 1: said they're no official negotiations taking place between Tehran and Washington,

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Speaker 1: while the White House is saying the US will hit

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Speaker 1: Iran harder than before, so on and on it goes.

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Speaker 1: I'm afraid. Tonight we bring you a mixture of stories

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Speaker 1: from the world of money. From the week that has

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Speaker 1: been in personal finance, we looked at why drafting your

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Speaker 1: own will is not a good idea. Sharon Hammond is

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Speaker 1: a senior legal advisor at Momentum who explained the complexities

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Speaker 1: involved in estate planning and the risks that come with

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Speaker 1: trying to draft your own will. Let me first just

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Speaker 1: set the scene. So imagine that you draw up will

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Speaker 1: you get it? Will you get it from a certain place?

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Speaker 1: And off you go and unfortunately you pass away, and

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Speaker 1: then this is what happens at that moment. When everyone's

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Speaker 1: around waiting for the will to be read.

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Speaker 3: All my assets, both liquid and otherwise, I leave in

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Speaker 3: their entirety to Marta Cabrera. My entire ownership of Blood

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Speaker 3: like Wine Publishing, I leave in its entirety to Marta Cabrera,

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Speaker 3: the copywriter. It's catalog likewise, I leave in its entirety

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Speaker 3: to Marta Cabrera.

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Speaker 2: No that's not No, that can't be.

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Speaker 4: Can I see that?

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Speaker 2: Please land right?

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Speaker 5: Please just keep.

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Speaker 6: Legal, It's right.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine? Can you imagine if you're wondering? Is

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Speaker 1: from the movie Knives Out, But can you imagine if

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Speaker 1: that's what happens with your will? Well, Sharon Hammond is

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Speaker 1: one of those people to make sure that it doesn't. Hey, Sharon,

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Speaker 1: good evening, and thanks so much for joining us on

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Speaker 1: Personal Finance tonight.

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Speaker 4: Your evening, Steven, It's good to be here.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So we're talking about why you need to actually

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Speaker 1: make sure your will is sorted out. And I know

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Speaker 1: that you can get wills online, you can buy them,

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Speaker 1: you can fill them in, and it's kind of done.

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Speaker 1: But there are many issues that happen when you do this,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things is a will which is

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Speaker 1: valid but is not executable. What does that mean? Why

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Speaker 1: would a will not be executable?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think a.

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Speaker 7: Lot of people think they've drafted a will, or even

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Speaker 7: if they do a homemade will and they've signed it

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Speaker 7: and they've got the witnesses to go sign with them,

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Speaker 7: that everything is sorted. But the difference between having a

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Speaker 7: valid will, which means that you fulfill the requirements of

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Speaker 7: the will's act, is quite different to having an executable will,

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Speaker 7: which is where the executor can actually give effect your wishes.

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Speaker 7: So similarly to your example, you are dishing out your assets,

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Speaker 7: you saying my house goes to this child, my investment

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Speaker 7: goes to that child. The vehicles go yeah, and everybody

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Speaker 7: is happy because they're getting something. For the executor to

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Speaker 7: then come in and say, the executor is the person

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Speaker 7: that's got the job to actually deal with this estate.

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Speaker 7: And he says, well, it's all great and lovely, but

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Speaker 7: first of all, have to pay me to do my job. Secondly,

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Speaker 7: receiver of revenues standing in line because there's something like

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Speaker 7: you state duty that might be payable, or these expenses

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Speaker 7: because we have to pay the transfer costs to transfer

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Speaker 7: the property to you, and there's debts that must be settled.

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Speaker 7: So all of a sudden, the thing is, we've got

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Speaker 7: all these assets, we've each got a claim to it,

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Speaker 7: but we can't have it because we're going to have

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Speaker 7: to sell it to actually pay all these expenses. Where

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Speaker 7: if you made sufficient provision by doing a proper state

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Speaker 7: plan and you could determine Okay, I've got a lot

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Speaker 7: of clients on acid reach, but they don't have a

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Speaker 7: lot of cash. They can say, let's make provision for it,

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Speaker 7: either by way of life insurance or by way of

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Speaker 7: earmarking a specific asset that can be sold to generate

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Speaker 7: this cash to then give effect to all the other

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Speaker 7: wishes that are basically put in my will, so that

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Speaker 7: the executor can then sort the Holy state out without

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Speaker 7: having to dispose of those assets.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I mean there's another issue, which is what's called

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Speaker 1: and I always find the spelling the pronunciation of this tricky.

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Speaker 1: It's the interstate succession. So interstate, if I remember, is

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Speaker 1: what happens if someone dies without a will.

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Speaker 7: Yes, So if you die without a will or a

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Speaker 7: valid will, then you will fall under the Interstate Succession Act.

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Speaker 7: So it doesn't mean that the government takes all your

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Speaker 7: money because some people believe that that does not happen.

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Speaker 7: But the Interstate Succession Act is very clear on how

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Speaker 7: assets are distributed. So the big risk is that what

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Speaker 7: you might have intended to happen will not happen because

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Speaker 7: of the Interstate Succession Act.

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Speaker 4: So, if you've got a spouse.

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Speaker 7: And children, the Act determines that a spouse will get

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Speaker 7: a child share plus one and the kids will get

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Speaker 7: the rest where most often the spouse should be or

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Speaker 7: is the only ap because they obviously often have to

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Speaker 7: stall after the children. So to leave it to the

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Speaker 7: Interstate Succession Act is really risky because it will not

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Speaker 7: necessarily pan out the way you want it to.

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Speaker 1: What does a child share plus one mean?

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Speaker 7: So if you've got three children, they will divide the

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Speaker 7: estate between that and the spouse gets basically one share

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Speaker 7: plus another one. And there's a minimum which you will

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Speaker 7: get which is two hundred and fifty thousand or the.

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Speaker 4: Child share plus one, whichever is the greater.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I mean it's an interesting way to work out

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Speaker 1: a formula, So I mean that would be spelled out

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Speaker 1: quite kelly. That's what happens if you die without a will?

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Speaker 1: Does it also cost? Does it also take longer. I

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Speaker 1: mean one of the problems that people have. If someone

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Speaker 1: passed as a way, the bank is formally told, they

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Speaker 1: immediately freeze all the accounts. I can understand why they

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Speaker 1: do that, and then it can take a long time

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Speaker 1: to actually get the money out. If you die interstate

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Speaker 1: without a will, does it take longer?

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Speaker 7: It tends to because all of a sudden, somebody has

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Speaker 7: to take control of the process, and they either have

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Speaker 7: to go to the Master's office to get themselves appointed

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Speaker 7: as an executive.

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Speaker 4: Because somebody must.

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Speaker 7: Still administer the state, whether it's in accordance with the

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Speaker 7: world or whether it's in accordance with the Interstate Succession Act.

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Speaker 4: Someone must still take control of that.

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Speaker 7: So you will have to go to the Master's office

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Speaker 7: and say that this estate is nice to be lodged,

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Speaker 7: and then they will determine who the executor is. If

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Speaker 7: you don't want to nominate yourself, because often family members

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Speaker 7: would want to do that, the master can insist that

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Speaker 7: you appoint an agent to support you, because they tend

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Speaker 7: to favor people that have a legal background or an

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Speaker 7: accounting or some sort of experience in this field to

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Speaker 7: assist the family to sort out the administration.

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Speaker 4: So even just that process.

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Speaker 7: To find the right person or to get yourself appointed

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Speaker 7: will take a while. And then obviously that the airs

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Speaker 7: might not be happy, so there might be some.

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Speaker 4: Disputestick go on.

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Speaker 7: And also obviously keeping in mind, even though you've got

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Speaker 7: the interstate succession, the creditors and the receiver revenue generally

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Speaker 7: stands in line first.

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Speaker 1: Sure we're taking your calls tonight O double one double

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Speaker 1: A three seven two two one four four six o

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Speaker 1: five six seven and in voice notes on seven two seven

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Speaker 1: oh two one seven O two we're speaking to Sharon Hammond,

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Speaker 1: a senior legal advisor at Momentum, about your will, about

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Speaker 1: why you need to make sure that everything is done properly.

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Speaker 1: I suppose the reason, Sharon, and tell me if I

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Speaker 1: get this right, the law does that. And the problem

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Speaker 1: is is that sometimes people become estranged from a spouse,

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Speaker 1: but they're still legally a spouse. Sometimes even you become

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Speaker 1: a strained from your children. In fact, the people you

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Speaker 1: love most of the people you want to get something,

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Speaker 1: it could be someone completely different, could be your next

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Speaker 1: door neighbor or the person who's helped you through something,

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Speaker 1: and yet that's not taken into consideration unless you have

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Speaker 1: a proper will.

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Speaker 7: Indeed, if you are married by in terms of the

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Speaker 7: Marriage Act or even in terms of a religious tenet

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Speaker 7: or a customary marriage, or in a permanent, long term relationship,

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Speaker 7: and the person can prove it, then they will be

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Speaker 7: seen as a spouse. So even for the Interstates Succession Act,

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Speaker 7: they can have a claim. So if you do not

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Speaker 7: want to include somebody in your distribution of your assets

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Speaker 7: upon your death, then a will is definitely the place

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Speaker 7: to start. Just keeping in mind if you are legally

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Speaker 7: married and you do have a spouse, and even some

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Speaker 7: of your other forms of marriages, even if you disc

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Speaker 7: and your spouse, there is something like a Maintenance of

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Speaker 7: Surviving Spouses Act that you must still have to contend with,

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Speaker 7: because inherently the rule is if you wanted to marry

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Speaker 7: somebody and you didn't go through the trouble of getting

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Speaker 7: divorced or having a formal separation, you might still be

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Speaker 7: held liable to maintain them in some form of fashion.

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Speaker 7: But there's also once again a process that you have

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Speaker 7: to go through.

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Speaker 1: It's not just a given sure, all right when you

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Speaker 1: pass away, and I mean somehow obviously SARS was going

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Speaker 1: to get a look in on this conversation. There is

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Speaker 1: still taxes. There two certainties in life.

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Speaker 7: Yes, indeed there is obviously when you die, you as

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Speaker 7: a natural person taxpayer, your tax year really ends the

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Speaker 7: day of death, so you first of all have the

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Speaker 7: tax liability for the year whilst you were still alive

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Speaker 7: until the day that you die, and then on that

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Speaker 7: same day a new taxpayer is born, which is referred

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Speaker 7: to as your deceased state, and any income and.

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Speaker 4: Interest or anything.

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Speaker 7: That's earned by that a state, whilst it's being round

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Speaker 7: up will still be subject to normal income tax or

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Speaker 7: capital gains tax in addition to just the normal taxes.

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Speaker 7: When you die, for capital gains tax purposes, it is

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Speaker 7: seen as if you have disposed of all your assets.

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Speaker 7: So to make sense of it, you can really see

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Speaker 7: that the living person is disposing of their assets in

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Speaker 7: favor of their estate. So there's a deem disposal for

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Speaker 7: capital gains tax purposes, so upon death, capital gains tax

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Speaker 7: is automatically triggered.

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Speaker 4: There are certain exemptions or exclusions that apply.

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Speaker 7: Most common is that if all the assets go to

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Speaker 7: a spouse, you don't pay that capital gains tax or

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Speaker 7: your primary residence exclusion will still continue to apply, so

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Speaker 7: all the normal exclusions that you have during your lifetime

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Speaker 7: will apply. The only other difference is that during your lifetime,

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Speaker 7: if you dispose of an asset, you get up to

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Speaker 7: fifty thousand as an exclusion for the gains that you've

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Speaker 7: made for capital gains tax. We're on death it is

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Speaker 7: three hundred thousand. I actually think that it's changed in

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Speaker 7: the budget recently, just going to double that it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Change in the budget. Yes, I think it was our

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Speaker 1: contry member exactly exactly what happened. Okay, So I mean

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Speaker 1: the worst thing would be if you get some sort

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Speaker 1: of tax and then as a result some of the

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Speaker 1: assets have to come out of the estate and be

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Speaker 1: sold or something like that. I mean, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: an awful story, but it must happen from time to time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, some assets have to be sold to pay taxes. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: Also if assets are disposed of, or.

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Speaker 7: If assets go to anybody else but the spouse, do

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Speaker 7: you have a liability of potential state duty. So each

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Speaker 7: person has up to three and a half million RAN

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Speaker 7: that can pass to anybody else, as I said, other

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Speaker 7: than the spouse, that will past is state duty free,

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Speaker 7: but over and above that, you will InCor stay duty

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Speaker 7: twenty five percent for any estate value after city million,

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Speaker 7: and then twenty five percent for the assets over and

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Speaker 7: above that. So once again, if the receiver of revenue

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Speaker 7: is due to be paid and there's no liquid funds

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Speaker 7: to do that, then assets are going to have to

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Speaker 7: be sold to make that payment, or alternatively, as can

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Speaker 7: be asked that if they want to pay that, because

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Speaker 7: they might want to preserve the assets.

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Speaker 4: So if there's family.

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Speaker 7: Property and the farm may be involved, they might not

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Speaker 7: want to sell that asset, So then they will have

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Speaker 7: to come up with the cash themselves to settle their

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Speaker 7: estate debt, because tax is really just another estate debt.

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Speaker 1: Sure, okay, So you have children, have minor children, or

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Speaker 1: your guardians of them, you need to make sure they're

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Speaker 1: looked after. How do you do that properly?

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Speaker 7: Well, first of all, having a world is the first step,

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Speaker 7: because in your world you will be able to nominate

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Speaker 7: a guardian for your children. Keeping in mind that if

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Speaker 7: you are divorced, the natural guardians, so the father or

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Speaker 7: the mother that appears on the birth certificate will be

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Speaker 7: the natural guardian, So you can't really replace them until

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Speaker 7: unless you've gone through a legal process to do that.

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Speaker 7: But let's say you are providing you the only parents,

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Speaker 7: or you and your spouse are the seas together, you

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Speaker 7: can appoint a legal guardian. Once again, it's not a given.

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Speaker 7: The person that you have appointed as a guardian in

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Speaker 7: your will still has to accept that nomination. So it's

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Speaker 7: very important to have your will in place, but also

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Speaker 7: to have those discussions with the relevant people before you

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Speaker 7: actually finalize those decisions to make sure that they are

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Speaker 7: prepared for what's going to happen, so that you don't

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Speaker 7: nominate a guardian and eventually they do not want to

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Speaker 7: accept because they might not have the financial means themselves

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Speaker 7: to look after your three children for.

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Speaker 4: The rest of their lives.

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Speaker 7: And then secondly to once again do the proper state planning,

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Speaker 7: so consulting with the financial advisor to do the necessary

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Speaker 7: calculations to see what the cost will be to bring

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Speaker 7: up those children and educate them, and then making the

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Speaker 7: necessary provisions. And very often families use testamentary trusts that

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Speaker 7: are once again set up in your will to look after, administer,

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Speaker 7: and control the money for the benefit of those children

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Speaker 7: until they reach other majority, which is eighteen, or you

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Speaker 7: can even say that it's until they're twenty one or

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Speaker 7: twenty five, depending on each person's preference.

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Speaker 1: Sharon Hammond there, senior legal advisor at Momentum, breaking down

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Speaker 1: why I WILL needs more than just the right wording.

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Speaker 1: It needs proper planning and must be legally compliant. Otherwise

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Speaker 1: who knows what people are going to fight over.

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Speaker 2: The best of the Money Show and two.

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Speaker 1: Two In Consumer Focus this week, Thruity Brooklyn, the consumer

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Speaker 1: law expert, discussing the risks and realities of vacation share

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Speaker 1: block schemes and what you need to understand before you

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Speaker 1: tie up a huge amount of money. In long term

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Speaker 1: holiday planning, if.

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Speaker 8: You can imagine Stephen and good evening to year in

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Speaker 8: the listeners, if you imagine a few friends or family

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Speaker 8: members getting together and buying a holiday home together, because

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Speaker 8: of course you don't live there, you don't need it

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Speaker 8: every week of the year. And this is a formalization

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Speaker 8: of that idea. So it's a holiday our house owned

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Speaker 8: by a company. The shares in that company are then

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Speaker 8: sold to consumers, and in exchange for ownership of the shares,

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Speaker 8: you have a right to stay for a fixed period

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Speaker 8: each year, and you have to pay a levy and

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Speaker 8: the total lebbies of the shareholders are intended to cover

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Speaker 8: the expenses on the property on the house, so that

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Speaker 8: there may be various houses in a particular share block scheme.

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Speaker 8: And that's basically how it works. So times you have

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Speaker 8: units or points, and you have varied interests that allow

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Speaker 8: you to get weekends, weeks stay, etc. In the course

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Speaker 8: of the year. You also pay levies, but with this

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Speaker 8: you earn a share which has wonderful benefits and real drawbacks.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I mean the drawbacks are interesting. I mean

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Speaker 1: sometimes these places are run by someone. They have an

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Speaker 1: actual operator.

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Speaker 8: Right, yes, correat.

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Speaker 1: So then where do things go wrong?

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Speaker 8: It often goes wrong with the operator. So in one

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Speaker 8: instance where I'm dealing with a group of clients who

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Speaker 8: are suing the developer and the and the shad block

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Speaker 8: companies in which they purchased shares quite a few years ago,

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Speaker 8: and they're suing for their purchase price back, they have

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Speaker 8: found that the management is really shoddy. So this resort

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Speaker 8: was advertised as a private residence club which provides its

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Speaker 8: owners with all the best services and amenities of a

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Speaker 8: five star hotel and appreciating investment in perpetuity what they

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Speaker 8: actually experienced, and it's been just patchy. So some experiences

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Speaker 8: were better, but the worst experiences where things like cockroach infestations,

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Speaker 8: dilapidated furnishings, the air con is broken, and it's in

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Speaker 8: case it ends, so that really the problem block brains

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Speaker 8: stand in smelly carpets, and then financial irregularities where there's

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Speaker 8: a sort of a cross subsidization from the saplock scheme

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Speaker 8: of other developments in the in the larger state. So

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Speaker 8: those are some of the complaints. There's also a bit

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Speaker 8: of a discrepancy often where the shedlock schemes where a

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Speaker 8: developer gets very ambitious and they build a property for

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Speaker 8: so many million that they sell it for three times

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Speaker 8: that price in terms of the shares if you add

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Speaker 8: them up, and then you promise that this is an

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Speaker 8: investment that my clients have found that they get on

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Speaker 8: the account of the estate seventy five percent depreciation of

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Speaker 8: what they're paid. And property is supposed.

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Speaker 9: To appreciate, right, So, I mean, one of the problems

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Speaker 9: with this is that you can't predict the future, and

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Speaker 9: you know that a car is not going to last forever,

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Speaker 9: a property you do expect to last forever.

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Speaker 1: Which means that you really are relying on the people

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Speaker 1: who run that for a very long time, and that

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Speaker 1: would seem to be the issue. This must happen, I

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Speaker 1: suppose quite often if you consider how the life expectancy

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Speaker 1: of a property like that.

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Speaker 8: Yes, so very much depends on proper maintenance, adjusting their

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Speaker 8: levees so that there is sufficient maintenance, and like keeping

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Speaker 8: up of the with the fashions and the and the

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Speaker 8: renovations that are necessary to keep a place looking sparkling

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Speaker 8: at all times. That you also have certain areas which

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Speaker 8: just go out of fashion. I mean, in my grand

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Speaker 8: grandmother's era, Belito was the place to go, and I

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Speaker 8: think it's gone out of quite a light now. Durban.

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Speaker 8: We have a few clients you've you've invested in share

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Speaker 8: blocks there and they're really struggling to sell that. You

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Speaker 8: have those shares, but then you struggle to sell them

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Speaker 8: at all.

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Speaker 1: So the Consumer Protection Act does it apply in a case.

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Speaker 8: Like this, Yes, it does. So if you buy us

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Speaker 8: in your individual name, then you're a consumer purchasing from

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Speaker 8: the developer. The developers acting in the ordinary course of business,

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Speaker 8: so that Consumer Protection Act applies, and one of its

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Speaker 8: provisions that applies very specially is that developers are prohibited

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Speaker 8: from charging an unfair, unreasonable, or unjust price or from

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Speaker 8: its misleading consumers. And that's what some of my clients

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Speaker 8: have found. In other cases, there are other issues that

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Speaker 8: the levees are exorbitant, especially for what you're getting. The

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Speaker 8: Companies Act also applies, and it protects minority shareholders. So

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Speaker 8: what often happens is that the developer maintains a majority

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Speaker 8: shareholding and they call the shots in terms of managing

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Speaker 8: the various companies earning the properties, and as a minority shareholder,

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Speaker 8: you are left high and dry, except that the Companies

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Speaker 8: Act provides you with the right to put your shares

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Speaker 8: back to the to the share block company for your

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Speaker 8: original purchase price. If the property is managed in a

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Speaker 8: way that is oppressive or unfairly prejudicial to you as

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Speaker 8: a minority shareholder, an fee lyad disregard your interest. So

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Speaker 8: that often is as a remedy that we can utilize.

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Speaker 1: So truly, I remember years ago there were public hearings

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Speaker 1: into the timeshare industry and someone said as part of

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Speaker 1: their testimony they had been unable to get their timeshare

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Speaker 1: agreement that they were unfortunately not long for this world,

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Speaker 1: and intended to leave it to Julius malemar in as

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Speaker 1: will because he thought that the timeshare company would find that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I remember the scene, and I found that

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Speaker 1: really quite something. How difficult is it to get out

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Speaker 1: of a share block scheme?

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Speaker 8: It can be harder than even timeshare. At least some

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Speaker 8: timeshare there are these resellers who will give you maybe

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Speaker 8: a hundredth of of what you paid. Were some of

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Speaker 8: the share blocks, you can literally just not find a buyer. So,

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Speaker 8: but our film has figured out some methodology in terms

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Speaker 8: of how to get you out of your share block ownership.

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Speaker 8: Even if you don't get value for your shares, at

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Speaker 8: least you get out of those oppressive levees that often

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Speaker 8: escalate for above Inflash and Right. So what we generally

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Speaker 8: do is to write to the managers and say that

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Speaker 8: our client wants to get out, and do they have

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Speaker 8: an exit policy? If there is none of those, we

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Speaker 8: go to the extreme step of careering the share certificates

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Speaker 8: to them and saying that our client abandons them. You

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Speaker 8: can do that, and that at least gets you out

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Speaker 8: of being a shareholder. And you don't need to keep

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Speaker 8: on paying the levees for a thing that you never use.

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Speaker 1: Trudy Brookman. They're outlining the realities behind holiday share block

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Speaker 1: schemes and the importance of understanding exactly what you're signing

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Speaker 1: up to before you lock your money into those contracts.

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Speaker 2: Seven you're listening to the money shows the best Bids

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Speaker 2: Business Unusual.

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Speaker 1: This week we examine how gen Z's growing presence in

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Speaker 1: the workforce is really changing the way that we work

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Speaker 1: at VITA and I do the African managing director of

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Speaker 1: jack Hammer Global saying that there are shifting expectations from

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Speaker 1: younger people about how they view work and about whether

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Speaker 1: or not they're quiet quitting. I'm not a part of

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Speaker 1: the conversations younger people have about older people, only part

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Speaker 1: of the conversations older people have about younger people. And

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Speaker 1: you keep hearing the same thing. Oh, they're sensitive, or

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Speaker 1: they don't work, or they come to work late, or

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Speaker 1: they're always looking at their screen. Is this just the

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Speaker 1: older generation being the older generation.

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Speaker 10: I think that every generation does that to the one

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Speaker 10: succeeding it. But to be fair, I think there's probably

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Speaker 10: something genuinely different here with gen Z in the workplace,

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Speaker 10: and there's probably not directly generational, but probably more.

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Speaker 6: Contextual if we think about it.

440
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 10: They enter the workforce during or close to a pandemic,

441
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,479
Speaker 10: which destabilize the social contract of work for all of us.

442
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 10: But importantly, their parents or their role models were probably

443
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 10: burning out inside organizations that weren't always displaying loyalty to them.

444
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 10: And they also came of a professional age where there

445
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 10: was much higher informational transparency and they could see what

446
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 10: companies actually valued versus what they say their value. So yes, definitely,

447
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,479
Speaker 10: I think there are some ways in which they may

448
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 10: be perceived to be entitled or a little bit lazy

449
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 10: or sensitive, but they're just exercising different boundaries than their

450
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 10: generational predecessors in relation to the informational cues that they're getting,

451
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 10: and I think that surprises organizations.

452
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 6: Probably feels quite uncomfortable.

453
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: Sure, I never thought of it like that, because I mean,

454
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: one of the phrases you hear that seems to be

455
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: related to the generation we're talking about is the phrase

456
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: quiet quitting. Now, people of my generation will will often

457
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: with pride say, when I was young, I worked hard.

458
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: I did this, and you know, I worked all the

459
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: hours in the day, and they see anything less than

460
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: that is quiet quitting.

461
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 10: Yeah, completely, And look, I think the textual clues matter,

462
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 10: or the context in which you have grown up professionally

463
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 10: probably matters. But a lot of the research shows that

464
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 10: a lot of the disengaged employees were, in fact all

465
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 10: the millennials and gen X workers, people probably mid career

466
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 10: and mid disillusion method. But the difference was that gen

467
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 10: Z brought visibility to this conversation. They talked about more,

468
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 10: especially online. They named it, and suddenly this behavior, this

469
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 10: quiet quitting, that it existed in organizations for probably for

470
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 10: a while, had something of a hashtag. And I think

471
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 10: looking and why they disengage is probably quite important. It's

472
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 10: very specific. They feel uncareful by a manager, they don't

473
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 10: have a sense of belonging, they can't see a future

474
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 10: at the company. And so for me, as somebody who's

475
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 10: in the people consulting space, I don't see these as

476
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 10: motivational issues or not wanting to do hard work. I

477
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 10: see these as relational issues. Did the company hold up

478
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 10: its end of the deal? And when you frame it

479
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 10: that way, I think the disengagement kind of makes sense.

480
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a fundamental difference here is that. And

481
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: I have no mandate to speak for my generation, but

482
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: I don't think I can hold my employer responsible for

483
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: my mental health. I can hold them responsible for acts

484
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: that are cruel or abusive towards me. That I can

485
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: absolutely do, and trust me on this I will. But

486
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: to say, well, they didn't take steps because they didn't

487
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 1: notice Stephen was suffering from depression or a mental health episode,

488
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: I mean that is something that's kind of foreign to me.

489
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying it's healthy. I'm just saying

490
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: it seems it's quite a foreign concept.

491
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 10: I agree, But I think there's research that shows that

492
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 10: mental well being has remained at its post pandemic.

493
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 6: Lows with no recovery options in sight. But the link

494
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 6: between mental health and productivity is actually the business of

495
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 6: imperative And so when I speak to leaders, I say,

496
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 6: high stress reduces cognitive capacity, it reduces decision making quality

497
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 6: and problem solving ability, which then can't be seen as

498
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 6: a wellness conversation. It has to be a performance one.

499
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 6: So gen Z arguably being the first generation to grow

500
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 6: up with the language of mental health, it's just articulating

501
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 6: the issues better. They're not absorbing the pain in the

502
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 6: same way that you know the older generation did.

503
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 10: They're not being fragile. So we have to look at

504
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 10: the business case for taking this seriously, because the cost

505
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 10: of replacing a mid level employee somewhere between half to

506
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 10: twice their annual salary, So like investing in psychological safety

507
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 10: is actually cheap by comparison.

508
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: No, sure, the issue of flexibility, and I mean this

509
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: gets to another thing. Oh never at work in time

510
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: or in my day, I came an hour earlier, and

511
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: I mean you know I did. And this is also

512
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: about being actually at the office where you can see

513
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: what someone is doing, and you know, older people like that.

514
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: Is this is there a generational aspect to this, and

515
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: I mean tied to that. I think older people are

516
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: sort of can't wait to get away from the screen.

517
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,479
Speaker 1: It's not like that for younger people who've grown up

518
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: with it. And that is a fundamental difference. It must be.

519
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 5: It is.

520
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 10: And I think you and I have spoken about this before,

521
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 10: and I know you hang on to every conversation we have,

522
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 10: so like that there's the caveat that as somebody who's.

523
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 6: Early in your career, you should want to be in

524
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 6: the office.

525
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 4: You should want to.

526
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 10: Learn at the knee or the laptop of somebody who's

527
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 10: done it all before, because it's not just.

528
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 6: Learning content, it's learning leadership.

529
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 10: It's learning decision making capability, how things happen in real time.

530
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 10: But I think it is much bigger than gen Z.

531
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 10: But gen Z is where it's most acutely felt. The

532
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 10: return to offer office mandates are quite a fascinating case

533
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 10: study in leadership because the gap between what leaders say

534
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 10: and what they actually value is pretty big. And when

535
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 10: organizations claim to be data driven, the decision to mandate

536
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 10: five days in the office doesn't support that because productivity

537
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 10: data in favor of flexible work is quite favorable. You know,

538
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 10: it's higher performance, it's better well being. So what's actually

539
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 10: driving the return to office is in a lot of

540
00:29:54,480 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 10: cases managerial anxiety at this unfair conflation of visibility with activity,

541
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 10: and that's something that needs to be looked at. So, yes,

542
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 10: being in the office is very good for learning opportunities,

543
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 10: but at the same time there need to be a balance.

544
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: I mean, leaders of officers, CEOs and all the rest

545
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: tend to be older. The people who make the decisions

546
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: about who's employed. How do they manage younger people differently,

547
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: And I wonder sometimes if the divide between the two

548
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: groups can be so big that older people are actually

549
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: going to try and employ older people where they can

550
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: someone like me, if you know what I mean, which

551
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: actually would be a terrible thing to do, be a

552
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: terrible outcome. But I do wonder if that those thoughts

553
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: go through people, because in an interview they'll understand each other.

554
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 10: That is so true, And I mean, I guess that's

555
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 10: another bias that we need to look at it. We

556
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 10: can't claim it's an unconscious bias once we speak it

557
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 10: out loud. But you are seeing that in a lot

558
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 10: of companies. There are companies that are raising the retirement age.

559
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 10: There's been a researcher I just read today to say

560
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 10: that a lot of South Africans aren't ready for retirement

561
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 10: at the steel sixty three. And I'm not saying that's

562
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 10: where companies are considering when they're raising the retirement age.

563
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 10: There probably is something of you know, like understands like

564
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 10: but in order like there's also a tendency to say,

565
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 10: suck it up, butter cup, but actually, this is the

566
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 10: future of the workforce and the people who are approaching

567
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 10: historical retirement age. Now we should be protecting the people

568
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 10: who are coming up in the ranks, because they are

569
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 10: the future.

570
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: A'dita and I do there unpacking gen Z's influence in

571
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: the workplace and what it means for the way in

572
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: which we manage those workplaces.

573
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: Seven Notes is the best of the Money Show from

574
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: this week.

575
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: Your Shape shift to this week. Charles Savage, the CEO

576
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: of the Purple Group and the founder of Easy Equities,

577
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: spoke about his astonishing career, the impact of Easy Equities,

578
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: how people are making money from it, and what it

579
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: means to be able to trade for yourself rather than

580
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: through someone else.

581
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 5: I was at Sachs Junior in Cape Town, so I

582
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 5: grew up. I was born and bred in Cape Town,

583
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 5: out to high school at Cintilians, and then went to

584
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 5: UCT for university. So up until the last two decade,

585
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 5: spent the better part of my life at the coast.

586
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 5: But I to classify myself as a surfer as a

587
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 5: little bit of the stretch of the imagination, given how

588
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 5: far I lived from the sea.

589
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: Today, Yeah no, and I mean it happens to so

590
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: many of us. I mean, I didn't have a surfing

591
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: career at all, but I know what it's like. You

592
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: you went through a phase so after UCT it seemed

593
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: that you were sort of going around the world kind

594
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: of as much as you could, and then you, I

595
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: don't know if the right word is stumbled into the

596
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: world of the Internet. And I remember that period. The

597
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: Internet was a new thing. We had these terrible dial

598
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: up modems from Telcom. What were you seeing at the time.

599
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was I mean I'd never heard of the

600
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 5: Internet until I's not traveling and then kind of every

601
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 5: backpack as I ended up at had an Internet terminal,

602
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 5: and it you know, for my generation, it replaced the

603
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 5: need for a telephone and a fax machine and online

604
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 5: was nacent for almost non existent at the time, but

605
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 5: it was starting and there were two industries that caught

606
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 5: my attention. The one was just the travel industries, which

607
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 5: is so much more convenient to be able to use

608
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 5: the Internet to find accommodation, to book a flight, etc.

609
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 5: And the other one was connected to an interest that

610
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 5: I had at university, which was investing in shares and

611
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 5: there were no share investment platforms but back then. But

612
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 5: I started to wonder or think about what it might

613
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 5: be like if students like me could access the Internet

614
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 5: to make investments and buy shares. But honestly, back then

615
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 5: I was naive because the ecosystem was just so poor.

616
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 5: Everything was slow, it was expensive, you didn't have mobile

617
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 5: phones in your hands. But it sowed the seeds for

618
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 5: eventually what happened decades later with easy equities.

619
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: So you went through a phase of basically working in

620
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: internet commerce. I mean, I don't know what exactly you

621
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: were doing was at marketing, but lots of different websites,

622
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: I presume because suddenly everybody realized he needed a website.

623
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: Otherwise you just weren't going to be alive as a

624
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: company anymore.

625
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, my first job, when I got back from traveling

626
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 5: around the world, my first real job was actually internal

627
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 5: accountant at Health and Racket Club, which is what Virgin

628
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 5: Active became. And that was a pretty disappointing experience. I mean,

629
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 5: all those who are old enough like me to know

630
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 5: what happened there, but that was one of the biggest

631
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 5: corporate frauds from a list of company up until that point.

632
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 5: And I was internal audit, so it was I'd been

633
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 5: there twelve or fifteen months, and you know, dispassion. It

634
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,439
Speaker 5: was dispassion about what I was doing. And a friend

635
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 5: of mine from university was building websites for this e

636
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 5: commerce the start of the e commerce kind of dot

637
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 5: com era, and he was just having so much fun

638
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 5: with it, and it connected back to my travels, and

639
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 5: here was a guy doing what I thought, might you know,

640
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 5: might be worth doing, and so I jumped ship. And

641
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 5: I hadn't. I never sold a website, I'd hardly used

642
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 5: the Internet. I wrote a little bit of code at university.

643
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 5: I'm double majored in accounts and it so I could

644
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 5: write a little bit of code, and I joined them

645
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 5: and to start of build almost all of the first

646
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 5: in category e commerce sites in South Africa, and interestingly,

647
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 5: the first one we ever built and launched, which was

648
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 5: the first e commace on South Africa, sold South African

649
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 5: seeds to the rest of the world. And you know

650
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 5: who would have thought of that back then. But the

651
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 5: benefit that we got was we could managed to look

652
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 5: inside all of these disparate businesses, understand their business models

653
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 5: and then bring their catalogs and their businesses online, which

654
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 5: was like an MBA for me because I'd been so one,

655
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 5: I'd had very few jobs to very little experience as

656
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 5: a result of that, and what I'd studied wasn't really business,

657
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 5: and so it gave me a kind of accelerated view

658
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 5: or an NBA if you like, view into what the

659
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 5: future of commerce might look like back in nineteen ninety eight,

660
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 5: nineteen eighty nine.

661
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: So in a way, you were right the beginning of

662
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: the revolution. And I've often noticed that that people who

663
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,959
Speaker 1: we speak to as a shape shifter and people who've

664
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: been very successful in the society are able to get

665
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: in at the start of a big change. And clearly,

666
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: from what you're saying, you got to have an understanding

667
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: of that that was probably lighty as a head of

668
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: where just about everybody else was.

669
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, everyone was against the internet, and you know,

670
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 5: it feels no different to what AI feels like today. Yeah,

671
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 5: you know, there were five percent of the people that

672
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 5: were passionate about what the Internet was going to do.

673
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 5: There were another, you know, fifteen or twenty percent who

674
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 5: could believe the future but weren't leaning into it. And

675
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 5: then the vast majority just said it was a phase,

676
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 5: it was a fan, it would pass, and I thing

677
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 5: would ever come of it. And they all celebrated Because

678
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 5: I believed they were right when the dot com bubble burst,

679
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 5: and the truth was there was way too much exuberance

680
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 5: about how quickly the e commerce might get traction. But

681
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 5: the five percent were right, they were just early, and

682
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 5: the fifteen percent were right to be skeptical. And but

683
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 5: we're watching it close and probably counted themselves as early adopters,

684
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 5: and you know, the eighty percent were wrong. And I

685
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 5: feel the same way exactly about AI now. And so

686
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 5: you know, for me, if I look back at it,

687
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 5: it's easy to pick the fastest streams. And I think,

688
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 5: as as youngsters looking for a career, you just got

689
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 5: to find yourself in a stream that's moving faster than

690
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 5: the other streams, because even the slowest boat in the

691
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 5: fast moving stream moves faster than a fast boat in

692
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 5: a slow moving stream. And that's for me what the

693
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 5: Internet presented. It was we were we had the opportunity

694
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 5: to be a boat and a very fast moving stream,

695
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 5: and there weren't that many boats with us. So it

696
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 5: was was it was right place, right time, a bit

697
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 5: of luck and a little bit of foresight, but yeah,

698
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 5: lots of luck, I guess.

699
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: So so you'd already had in your head the idea

700
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 1: of being to sort of trade online, a much more

701
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: direct way of trading. When did you think it might

702
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: actually rarely first be possible to sort of start What

703
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: do you eventually started?

704
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 5: Well, in two thousand, I one of my biggest clients

705
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 5: was a company called GT two four seven dot com,

706
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 5: which is still in the Purple Group today, and there

707
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 5: were a bunch of international founders, one South African and

708
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 5: four internationals who believed that the Internet was going to

709
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 5: change trading, specifically derivative trading, what we call CfDS today,

710
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 5: and they convinced me that the future had arrived for that,

711
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 5: and I jumped ship and I became CTO of the

712
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 5: group and focused on one business, one online e commerce business.

713
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 5: And at the time it was it looked like it

714
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 5: was a market opportunity for everyone, but we quickly worked

715
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 5: out that not everyone had access and that fundamentally, trading

716
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 5: was a sophisticated game, and so we really focused on

717
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 5: sophisticated places, sophisticated people, and building platforms for people who knew.

718
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 5: We had a high level of confidence and skills, and

719
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 5: from two thousand to two thousand and seven we built

720
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 5: a business. We raised two million dollars to fund the business,

721
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 5: and in two thousand and seven that business sold to

722
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 5: Purple Group what was Purple Capital the Purple Group today

723
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 5: for thirty six million euros, so kind of eighteen times

724
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 5: it's money in seven years. And we had customers all

725
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 5: around the globe. We had offices on every continent, We

726
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 5: had customers almost on every content as well. We were

727
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 5: training across forty four exchanges. But the truth was, at

728
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 5: that time that thirty six million euro business served less

729
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 5: than twenty thousand customers. So it was a very niche

730
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 5: business servicing highly sophisticated customers. And that was I guess,

731
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 5: the foundation for what became Easy Equities because that game

732
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 5: was very niche. It didn't speak to my desire to

733
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 5: get if you like, students investing, young people investing, and

734
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 5: we served the needs of a very small group of

735
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 5: sophisticated individuals who quite frankly, didn't need us. And it

736
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 5: wasn't changing people's lives in a positive way. It wasn't

737
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 5: something that I had a big runway for growth or

738
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 5: positive influence on society. And I kind of lost interest

739
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 5: in that, and it took me a whole lot longer

740
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 5: to work out why and what to do next and

741
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 5: that came about in twenty thirteen where I was sitting

742
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 5: on a beach with friends and family in Mozambique, and

743
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 5: all of them have known me for a long time,

744
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 5: and I said to them, why is it that none

745
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 5: of you invest? Because the dialogue that we used as

746
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 5: brokers was that the customers were poor savers, that the

747
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 5: customer was fundamentally the problem. And at the end they

748
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 5: were just you know, they were never going to take

749
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 5: it up because they'd rather buy cars than by shares.

750
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 5: And I asked, if everyone on the beach, so, what

751
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 5: is it? Is it us have we credit the wrong

752
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 5: products and services? Or is it you are just not interested?

753
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 5: And all of them, and some of them were twelve

754
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 5: years old and some of them were forty years old,

755
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 5: but all of them said the same thing in a

756
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 5: different way. And the answer led to easy equities. Because

757
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 5: what they said is they'd tried it. Was they were intimidated.

758
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 5: Was it seemed too sophisticated, The concepts were unfamiliar with them.

759
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 5: The words we used and the language we used felt

760
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 5: like a closed private group. And so and the next

761
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 5: thing they said is and I said to them, I said, well,

762
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 5: what if we make it easy, and they said, well,

763
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 5: then we would all buy shares, every single one of us,

764
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 5: and we would do it all the time. And that

765
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 5: was you know, I don't know why it took me

766
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 5: so long to ask my customers and needed of us,

767
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 5: but that was the foundation for easy equities.

768
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: So, I mean, I was trying to think of the

769
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: of what it was like before, and what it was

770
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: like before was kind of I mean, probably the right

771
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: word is stuffy, but you know, you'd see an old

772
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: movie someone will say, call my broker, you know, because

773
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,439
Speaker 1: they want to make a trade. So it was really

774
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: a big change. And I also wondered that when you

775
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: were starting, most people would have been sitting maybe at home,

776
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: maybe at work on a PC, you know, one of

777
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: those things that has a box and a fan and

778
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: then another monitor and air mouse and trading like that.

779
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: It wasn't like it is now where you would just

780
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 1: have an app on your phone. And that might also

781
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: have been sort of one of the reasons why suddenly

782
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: there was a widespread adoption a bit later.

783
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly right, Stephen. I mean, the ecosystem for these

784
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 5: business models like ours is firstly, you need money too

785
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 5: to move easily through the system. And so when you

786
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 5: think about that, what do you mean, Well, you need

787
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 5: lots of bank accounts, and you need low cost access

788
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 5: to moving money, which wasn't around until the last decade.

789
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 5: You know, the proliferation of bank accounts, you know, thanks

790
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 5: to F and B and Capitech and Discovery Bank and

791
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 5: everyone else, has only happened in the last two decades.

792
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 5: So the ecosystem for money to move to deeply and

793
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 5: easily through the ecosystem has only been built in the

794
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 5: last two decades, so you couldn't have done it before.

795
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: Then.

796
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 5: Then you need low cost, high speed access to the Internet,

797
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 5: now that has only happened in the last decade. I mean,

798
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 5: you know, a decade ago you were paying three to

799
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 5: four times what you pay today for one tenth of

800
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 5: the speed and access point and so not everyone could

801
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 5: access the Internet. And then the final piece you need

802
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 5: is you need a device to access that Internet wherever

803
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 5: you might be. And the PC didn't serve that needed

804
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 5: only served the needs of people who were in the

805
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 5: were either in the employer of a company that gave

806
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 5: them PCs or had the means to buy PCs for themselves,

807
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 5: which again was highly exclusionary. And if you just look

808
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 5: at where we stand today. All of those things have

809
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 5: been addressed, those ecosystem friction points, but without them, there

810
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 5: would be no e commerce model for Easy Equities to

811
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 5: sit on top of. So the system players have done

812
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 5: their job and given us our moments so that we

813
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 5: can reach our customers wherever they might be, so they

814
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 5: can invest in the shares they love.

815
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: Your shape shift this evening, Charles Samitz the sea at

816
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: the Purple Group and of course one of the founders

817
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: of Easy Equities. Charles, I have one or two questions

818
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: about the sort of service as it is now, and

819
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: obvious one is how many people are kind of online

820
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: trading at any one time. And I'm sure you kind

821
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: of have that Darta and I'm sure it's quite quite

822
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: changeable during the day.

823
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we've got there one point two million active

824
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 5: customers in the group at any at any point during

825
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 5: the day, there's about eight to twelve percent of them

826
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 5: online checking their portfolios looking for a new share to

827
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 5: buy or one to sell. But at the peak period,

828
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 5: and typically you know, the peak periods are on market open,

829
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 5: so all the open Jose open and then US open,

830
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 5: you'll get as much as thirty five to forty percent

831
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 5: of your customers online at a single moment. And again,

832
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 5: you know, in specific news events, so for example, an

833
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 5: interest rate decision or Trump talking about a war in Iran,

834
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 5: that concentrates minds and thoughts around their portfolio, not because

835
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 5: they want to buy or sell, but to see what

836
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 5: those events, what the effect of those events might be

837
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 5: on their portfolio.

838
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: I would presume at times like now, with the conflict

839
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: in Iran and Trump being so changeable and frankly irrational,

840
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: you see a lot more traffic people checking their portfolios

841
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: a bit more often.

842
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's fascinating. So whenever there's a market dislocation because

843
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 5: of an event like Trump is a positive or a

844
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 5: negative one, there's more media around the consequences for financial markets,

845
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 5: which means you've got free advertising, and so there's a

846
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 5: direct correlation. The more news worthy the markets are, the

847
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 5: more customers register and join us. So there's a direct

848
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 5: correlation between the newsflow and who joins us.

849
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to try and put this as rightly as

850
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: I can because it's such an interesting point. But Warren

851
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: Ingram does personal finance with us once a week, and

852
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: he always says you shouldn't be looking at your portfolio

853
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: all the time. You should be making your decisions, stick

854
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: to a strategy and sort of loss it, you know,

855
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: leave it there. Your customers are doing something very different,

856
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 1: and part of me thinks, well, maybe they're making more money.

857
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: I can hear Ingram in my head saying, well maybe

858
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: they aren't. I mean, I don't know if you have

859
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: a view on that.

860
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 5: Now.

861
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: I don't mean to attack your business model, but it's

862
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: such an interesting question, merchant.

863
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,479
Speaker 5: It's a fascinating question. And I know Warren well, and

864
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 5: he'll know that I would argue with him on this point.

865
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 5: But that is the dialogue, or that is the narrative

866
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 5: that the industry wanted you to believe, and they believed

867
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 5: in themselves. I mean, I'll never forget this when we

868
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 5: start using equities. I found myself in the boardroom of

869
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 5: a very large asset manager I won't name them, and

870
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 5: I told him what we were doing and we wanted

871
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 5: their support. We wanted them to list their funds on

872
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 5: our platform. And they turned around to me and said,

873
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 5: and this was the CEO of this organization. He said

874
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 5: to me, Charles, what you're doing is irresponsible. Customers are

875
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 5: not smart enough to look after their portfolios. Their behavior

876
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 5: will let them down. We're here to protect them. Now,

877
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 5: what Warren is saying is a long way from that.

878
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 5: But here's what eleven years of watching these customers do

879
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 5: what they what they want to do, not what they

880
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 5: told to do. Here's what they do. Firstly, they make

881
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 5: as much money from the market as the top twenty

882
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 5: five percent of asset managers. So they would rank if

883
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 5: you took easy equities and you said put all the

884
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 5: funds together and said what's the return profile versus our

885
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 5: unit trust industry, they would be in the top quarte,

886
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 5: so in the top twenty five percent. So they are

887
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 5: doing as well as the best asset managers. That's the

888
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 5: first thing. The second thing is they're getting better at

889
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 5: doing it. Now, why with hindsight, what can we unpack?

890
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 5: Because they pitch up. Every time they pitch up as

891
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 5: an opportunity to engage and to learn something new, to

892
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 5: learn that the effects of Trump having warn Iran increases

893
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 5: oil price. Increased oil prices means there's going to inflationary pressure.

894
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 5: Bonds are going to come under pressure, and so will

895
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 5: some equities, but some other equities will respond positively. They

896
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 5: fundamentally have learned this because they're engaging with it every

897
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 5: single day. The narrative that we must stand back from

898
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 5: our portfolios and just let it ride is it's naive

899
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 5: because the truth is, and any asset manager will say this,

900
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 5: is that investing is a long term game and the

901
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 5: education is forever. And what you want is your customers

902
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 5: is to go on this education journey together with you,

903
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 5: to check in on their portfolios and to ask the

904
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 5: question why why did it go up? Why did it

905
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 5: go down? And then to say, well, what should I

906
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 5: do about it? And it's incredible to watch how sophisticated

907
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 5: these portfolios are, how well these customers are doing, and

908
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 5: how much better are they getting? And if I can

909
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 5: just leave one number behind, it's this because people would say,

910
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 5: you know whatever, Chroals is talking his own business, but

911
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 5: he has a number and it's in our financials and

912
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 5: so it's an audited number. Our customers have on average

913
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 5: grown their portfolios for eleven years now at a compounded

914
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 5: annual growth rate of fifty percent.

915
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: Charles Savage, they're reflecting on his journey from would be

916
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: globetrotting accountant to fintech trailblazer and the leadership principles that

917
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: really shaped his rise.

918
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: The best of The Money Show and seven two seven two.

919
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: You've been listening to the best bits of The Money Show.

920
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: A digestive some of the best conversations from the show

921
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: this week. If you'd like to hear more, you can

922
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: go to our website or our podcast app and search

923
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: for The Money Show. Thanks for listening. Back with The

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00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: Money Show six o'clock on Monday. Have a good weekend.